Platform vs. Performance: Building Enduring Supply Chain Advantage Across Public and Private Models

In this episode of The Momentum Flow, Luis Solana sits down with Mark Yeager, CEO of Redwood Logistics and former Private Equity Advisor, for a conversation at the intersection of leadership, capital, technology, and execution.

As businesses navigate increasing uncertainty, one question stands out:

What truly creates a sustainable competitive advantage?

Mark shares insights from decades of experience leading organizations in both public and private environments, offering a unique perspective on how ownership structures influence decision-making, innovation, growth, and performance.

Together, they explore:

• Public vs. private company leadership and execution
• Why some companies create enterprise value while others simply grow
• The rise of platform-driven business models
• How capital allocation impacts innovation and speed
• The gap between technology investment and real business outcomes
• AI, digital transformation, and the future of supply chain performance
• What separates high-performing organizations from the rest

One theme emerged throughout the conversation:

The future will not belong to the companies with the most assets.

It will belong to the organizations that can execute consistently, adapt quickly, and orchestrate performance at scale.

Whether you're a founder, executive, investor, operator, or business leader, this episode offers valuable lessons on building enduring competitive advantage in a rapidly changing world.

🎙️ Subscribe for more conversations on leadership, innovation, AI, investing, and exponential growth.

#TheMomentumFlow #Leadership #SupplyChain #AI #Innovation #PrivateEquity #Logistics #BusinessStrategy #DigitalTransformation

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Welcome to the Momentum Plot Podcast, where ideas, innovations, and experiences are sure to create a continuous stream of inspiration and insight. Join me, your host, Lurizolana, a supply chain expert and investor, as I uncover how visionary founders, operators, and leaders are spotting opportunities, sparking innovation, and scaling profitable growth. From plan to cash, I bring real-world experience and an investor's eye to reveal how clarity, capital, and conviction feel sustainable growth. Tune in and let's keep the momentum flow going. So today's conversation sits at the intersection of capital, execution, and technology. I'm joined by Mark Jaeger, CEO of Rebu Logistics, who has also been a private equity advisor, bringing a rare dual lens across operating and investing. What makes the discussion timely is a simple but powerful shift. Whether public or private companies, asset heavy or platform-driven, the market is rewarding one clear thing: consistent, scalable performance in an unstable world. Mark, great to have you here. Welcome to the Momentum Thought. Thanks for having me, Luis. It's a pleasure to have you, Mark. So to start, why don't you share a bit about your personal journey? You know, you have your early days in Indiana University, Georgetown. You had a long stint at a public company like Hubgroup. You were the CEO and board member there. And the last decade you pivoted to the private sector with Redwood, and you had a tenure in advisory in the private equity world. So why don't you share a little bit about your journey?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yeah, that that certainly covers it. No question about that. I did go to Indiana and went on to Georgetown Law from there, uh, practiced law for a couple of years, and um came into the logistics space uh with Hub Group. Uh, as you may or may not know, my parents started the business back in 1971 in a single office uh with uh with no windows and uh built the company from there. So I came back uh into the fold. Uh I was with Hub for 23 years, uh, a lot of different roles, you know, everything from oh general counsel work to uh to uh heading sales. Uh my last position there was president and chief operating officer, and I was on the board of Hub Group as well. You know, after that, I really wanted to do something more entrepreneurial. And um I managed to find a private equity partner, CI Capital, and we set out on the path of building a billion-dollar platform uh in the logistics space. And that was back in 2016. Um we purchased uh Redwood Logistics and brought it together with a company called Simplified Logistics in uh 2018, and it's really been a run ever since there. Uh I am the CEO uh of Redwood Logistics and also sit on the board at this time. So it's been a great journey. It's been a fun journey, and it's been very interesting to see both the public and the private equity world uh firsthand.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, absolutely. I I think you know, from really a family-owned business to public company to then private, it's definitely an interesting conversation. I'm sure we're gonna have a great conversation. So why don't we start by by you contrasting a little bit too clear about different phases of your professional career, right? You again, you've operated across public and private environments. Yep. What is fundamentally different between how supply chain strategies shaped in a public company versus a private company? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

I think, you know, I think there are many commonalities about developing and implementing and modifying strategy in those two environments, because you know, you are both in the logistics space. But I will say I think there are really some very significant differences. And and given my brothers, I have to say that when you talk about developing and implementing and modifying strategy, it's it's much easier in a private equity world uh than in a public company world. Um I think that that um the interface with a private equity partner is something that that most folks are much more comfortable with. You know, it's a dialogue, it's an ongoing discussion. In a good private equity relationship, there's alignment about how to create enterprise value. So, you know, in my experience with our two private equity partners, CI Capital and then AEA, um, they were really helpful in helping us develop and implement and and and modify those uh you know uh strategic choices, right? I think it's a very difficult world and a very different world in in the public space. You know, you you just can't have that kind of dialogue that you get in a PE space as you get uh uh as you're trying to talk through strategy and especially trying to modify strategy in a public world.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

So as an operator could you wear, so what do you think people really misunderstand that? The the the public market pressure versus the private equity expectations, which tend to be higher and the returns and that, right? So what do where do people misunderstand, the operators misunderstand the difference?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Yeah, I I think there's no doubt that both have high expectations, right? And there's and there's a heavy price for failure. There's no question about that. But you know, as an operator, I think that uh what a lot of people don't understand in coming into the public sector is how important it is to set expectations. And it really is it's an art, um, and it really requires tremendous discipline and a lot of foresight and a certain amount of diplomacy as well. Um, I will say that at Hub, when we became public, we were very entrepreneurial. It was a great company. I think you always believe you're going to perform and you're always going to deliver. But in a public sector, there's really no room for aspiration, right? Unless you're Elon Musk. Uh, I think you really need to have a disciplined approach. You need to set expectations, and then you need to deliver on those expectations. You can have a great quarter, what feels like a great quarter in the public sector, but if you miss by a penny, you know, the impact on the stock price can be can be profound. And so there's just such an importance to set and manage those expectations that I think a lot of folks who come from an operating background or who have built a company uh just don't understand how an important part of value creation that is in a public world.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

So in both environments, I guess, you know, there's um you need to execute on a very disciplined way under pressure. So from your experience, any learning that you can share of executing under pressure.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, I mean, obviously, uh logistics is a is a is a space that's filled with pressure and filled with variability. There's no question about that. And I I think that's been a constant throughout my career. Um, I do think that you know, in in the public world, um it's very important that you um that you that you execute consistently uh and that you're able to deliver and explain performance in a in a in a um in a in a significant way that the public that the public can understand. I think in a in a private equity world, um the tendency under pressure is to um is to potentially not be as forthright with your private equity partner, and that can create misalignment, and misalignment is the death sentence, right? The tendency, I think, in a public world is in order to try under pressure to meet quarterly expectations, uh, to get away from your operating disciplines and try to do things in order to save the quarter, if you will. And that usually has negative ramifications as well. Both are a little different. The timing is is is just a little different as well. And and I think the the mistakes that people make, um, while well-intentioned, you know, nonetheless, you can see it in a lot of public companies and you can see it in a lot of private equity companies, you know, those two phenomena.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

As I hear you share your your your experiences, I hear hints of a convergence, right? Where public companies are acting faster, private companies are becoming more structured. Do you think there's really a hybrid model emerging?

SPEAKER_01 8:54

Well, I hope so, right? I hope so. I think that's what we should all be aspiring for, right? You know, I I think that um certainly at Redwood, that's what we're trying to do. You know, Redwood has always been a very entrepreneurial company. And when I came in as CEO, the one thing I wanted to make sure we didn't lose was that entrepreneurial culture, that ability to be nimble, to be flexible, because I think that's more important now than it ever has been. And I think public companies are now seeing that as well. You do need um you need to have discipline, especially in a public world where consistency and predictability is so important. I think it's absolutely critical. At the same time, you can't become bureaucratic, right? You still have to be flexible, you have to be nimble, or you will fall behind the pace very, very quickly. And I think it's one of the biggest challenges that public companies have going forward is how do they become more nimble? And um, and that's that's that's going to be an interesting challenge. And I think as companies in the private equity sector grow, they do need to develop those disciplines that are much more common in a public enterprise.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, no, I I I agree with you. I I really think there's there's best practices from both. Um I think that convergence creates value. But anyway, let's shift from who owns the business, which has been the conversation till now, on how the business really actually creates value, right? Because at the end, that's the model is really that that model of creating value is evolving as as fast, if not more, than just who owns the business. So for years, advantage came from scaling assets, right? And nowadays, I would argue that you know platforms and orchestration are the new battleground. What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I think that's fair to say. I think that's fair to say. I mean, look, I think there's always going to be value in assets, right? You know, because we are in a physical world and we're moving physical goods, and somebody ultimately has to move those goods, right? So it's very, very important. But I think that as the supply chain has become more complex, um, people have started to understand that, you know, it's about more than price, it's about more than securing capacity, right? You really do need to orchestrate all of these complex pieces, bring them all together so that they all work together. Because, you know, it's the it's the uh weakest link in the chain. You know, it just takes one uh one area of failure, and the whole thing can really be massively disrupted. I think we certainly saw this during COVID. So I think that disruption, that lack of control that people experience during during COVID taught them that the supply chain needs to do more than just provide capacity. They really do need to orchestrate all those pieces for an outcome that provides competitive advantage for their business.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah. Now, on the other side, you know, how do you really distinguish a true logistic platform that is, you know, it has assets at the end from a company that is just layering technology into operations with that value creation? Can you discern that?

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yeah, I think there's, you know, I think there's a lot more of the latter than the former, right? You know, to be honest with you. And I think we're especially seeing it with AI right now, right? You know, the typical, the typical uh projects that that that that folks are launching, I think really are very little more than layering AI on top of the business, right? And that that isn't a bad thing. It does provide information, it provides market intelligence, um, but at the same time, it doesn't generate the kind of benefits that the technology really could if it's truly operating within a platform. And and to me, you know, the the the proof is in the pudding, right? And the real question is, is the technology embedded in the workflow or is it separate? Are you in a workflow and then you jump into the technology and then you jump back out to the workflow? That's that's not embedded, right? That is not embedded. But I think it's much harder to embed technology into the workflow because the workflows need to be re-engineered. And a lot of customers and a lot of 3PLs for that matter really don't have necessarily the resources or the tools to make that happen in a very efficient manner. So I think we're getting there, uh, but I think it's still the exception, not the rule.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

At least my impression on Redwood is you know, you really have put effort on scaling those capabilities as much as, if not more, than scaling assets for the sake of doing it. Was there a moment that you realized that you said, hey, I need to do more this than and less than the other? Or well, for sure, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

I mean, absolutely. And and I think I had I had seen a little bit of that at Hub, uh, but but certainly, you know, at Redwood, I think that you know, we the company started out as a brokerage, right? As a as a non-asset player. And, you know, long before I got there, they did they did what many non-asset players do, and they started a trucking company, you know, and and the trucking company was fine and it was well run and and it produced some value for our customers, but there just wasn't a lot of value in scaling it. You know, if you added 10 drivers, you got you know 10 more loads a week, right? It was that kind of linear um scale, I think. Um and so that investment, while it did produce some value, it was limited value. And if the markets shifted and demand fell off, then then it became a liability. And that that is somewhat inherent in the nature of assets, I think, right? Now, you know, on the other hand, when when we um purchased a company called Eminent, which uh specialized in Oracle implementations, right? So we invested heavily in our integration capability, invested heavily in Redwood Connect, our no-code integration tool, and in uh capabilities uh that were expanded. What that did for us was it really opened up the entire Oracle uh ecosystem, the entire Oracle customer base uh to us as potential partners, right? So it wasn't a linear, uh it wasn't it wasn't a linear growth, it was exponential in terms of the opportunity that unfolded because of investing in that unique capability. You just can't get that kind of a pop, in my mind, out of assets. But like I said before, there's still there's still a lot of value in assets. I just think that the potential contribution and the risks um uh are not nearly what what you get when you're when you're really building scale from a capability perspective.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

So maybe just for context for for for the audience, so how would you define Redwood today? It's more it's more um asset-driven, technology-driven?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

I would say we are technology driven, absolutely. You know, we think of ourselves as bringing technology and execution together, right? Uh in a very unique way. You know, we operate on an open ecosystem, right? So, what it enables us to do is offer tremendous optionality to our customers and a lot of flexibility. You know, at the same time, we're not just a tech play. We don't believe that tech is the answer. The real, the real question is what do you do with the technology, not what is the technology? We think that's the driver.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

And that's a perfect lead to my last question in this section, which is you know, what do you think companies mainly get that digital transformation wrong today?

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Yeah, I just that, I think, right? I think we see so many companies who invest in technology or who go out and buy a TMS, you know, most of our customers are using maybe 20% of the TMS capabilities, right? And how many big builds have you seen on the logistics side with large public companies or even startups that spend millions of dollars on technology and they really don't end up with much to show for it, right? Um to us, the the big the big thing that you have to understand if you're gonna try to digitize is that it's about more than the tech. There's a whole um there's a whole planning, there's a foundation that has to be built around data and and tech structure. And then there's an even more laborious process of re-engineering the workflows so that you can truly become digitized. And and I think too often people spend millions of dollars on a TMS, they don't see results, and they don't understand why not. And that's because the foundation wasn't built and the work to really re-engineer the workflows wasn't done either, right? Not many customers or shippers or or you know, even three pills for that matter, are equipped to do that work on their own.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

That's thanks for your insight. That I that that's really insightful. So at the end, you know, companies define themselves either asset driven with technology or technology driven with assets. But once you you define the model, you then, especially as a CEO, you have to actually transform it and evolve it, right? And that's really where capital and discipline come into play. So, from your perspective, while you were the private equity environments linked to Redwood, what separates the companies that create real enterprise value from those that they're just growing? They're showing a top-land growth, but are they really creating value? What is the difference?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah, I mean, look, I think I think you know the growth is the easy part, right? You know, how many times have we seen companies come into our space with this sort of theory of I'm gonna grow to the point where I have scale, and then the scale is going to lead me to an industry leadership position. You know, to be honest, I've never seen that argument work, right? You know, I don't believe that's how you add value going in and buying business. It's very in a you know, in a world of automated bidding, it's very easy to do, and it's very easy to lose a lot of money doing that and also add very little value, right? I think if you're selling a commodity, you know, you are you have a weak value proposition, right? And and I believe that companies with a weak value proposition don't create enterprise value either. The two go hand in hand. So, from my perspective, when we're looking at businesses or when we're thinking about how is Redwood performing, what I want to see is how's the strength of our value proposition to our customers, right? And that means how many customers are are coming on? How many customers are really um compelled uh uh to become partners with us and and and willing to pay, you know, uh uh uh uh to compensate us, you know, for the value that we're creating, right? Um and so so to me, a company that's creating enterprise value is bringing on new customers, and then they're expanding those relationships with those customers. It isn't a one and done, it isn't a I just wanted in a bid and I've got it for a year. It becomes a true partnership. And we call that land and expand. So we can start with a customer and a certain segment of our value proposition, and then really demonstrate and expand that position with them by bringing value to them, right? And as a result, I think that that most of our customers come in and use multiple services over the course of time, and we're able to maintain very low attrition levels. So to me, a company that has low churn is developing it has a very strong value proposition, and that value proposition translates into long-term enterprise value.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Yeah, that does make sense. Now, uh going back to your your early stages on Redwood, right? You come to Redwood, private equity is involved, only private equity wants to create speed of change, right? That was one of the models of private equity. So, but at the same time, it sometimes introduces risk. How uh how did you manage that? Well, what lessons do you learn from that?

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah, it's um it's interesting for sure. I mean, you know, typical private equity hold period is three to five years. And at the same time, they're looking for anywhere from a 2x to a 4x return. There's a lot that has to happen in three to five years to generate that kind of return. There's absolutely no question about it. It can be a great thing. It can be a great thing because there's no time to uh to waste. You know, you really have to be productive. Um, we have a saying private equity never sleeps, right? You know, I mean it's a constant, it's a it's a sprint, right? That that that that does, I think, streamline decision making. And that's a very powerful thing, and it's very important, right? Um, and it it really um I think creates an alignment that can also be extremely powerful. And so, so in that sense, that sense of urgency, um, I think can be very, very positive, especially as you're competing against typically slower moving enterprises that are more of a public, you know, more of a public persona. Um uh but at the same time, there is the risk that you don't necessarily um Be as thorough in some of that decision making as you otherwise could be. And I think that's the downside. You can get uh a little bit uh a little bit too rushed in your decision making. And you have to you have to you have to be able to balance both. That that that need for urgency at the same time, that need for discipline.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

So let me just go slowly on a tanya because obviously you you hinted about the the different pace of public companies versus private equity back companies, right? And that slowness, which is not necessarily slowness, I would say it's more uh deliberate managed expectations. You know, sometimes it's a leadership choice, but it could also be kind of a comfort choice from leadership, right? Your take, and I'm not I'm not quoting Hub to be clear, but your take on how the how the how what's your take on that? Because both, again, that convergence of models, you know, I think it's a blessing in disguise. But what's your take?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah, no, I look, I would agree with that. I think I think there is a natural deliberateness to uh to public to public entities because there's such a value on hitting expectations. It's just so important. They don't want, they don't want variability, you know, that there's just no uh there's no place for that, right? You know, so I do think that you end up um being more deliberate in your strategy. There's more of an educational process with the public that has to take place. So I think shifting strategies is a little bit more difficult. Um and there's just a need for more discipline in the public space because the cost of errors is is is significant and it's truly an unforgiving place. You know, so so I you look, I think, I think that um public entities uh like deliberate decision making. They like deliberate executives and executives that are institutional in nature like public enterprises, right? So the so the two. I I hope there's a convergence, right? I hope that there's the best the best executive is institutional but also flexible and aggressive, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

And uh it's hard to find both, but I like that that's I think there's value in both. So now, yeah, even with the right capital and strategy, execution at the end, you know, even more today runs through one lever, which is technology, right? And there's more technology than ever in supply chain. You and I you go through a trade show today, and it's even difficult to discern what's happening from technology perspective. So with all that technology, why are outcomes still so inconsistent, right? You have all this technology, but you see all kinds of results. What's your take on that?

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Yeah, look, I think I think it goes back to the sort of previous point that that um it's not usually just a technology solution. You know, I think that technology has enabled us to do some amazing things. It hasn't made our world any less complex. It's probably made our world more complex, right? There's more variables now, there's more choices. Um our our supply chains are inherently more complex uh now. So I think that you're you're you're you're in a world that has more moving places, more variables. The technology is is helping in some regards, but but at the same time, um it is too often viewed as a panacea and and as as if it's going to generate results, improvements on its own. And that just isn't the case. You know, I think you can look at so many instances of large technology builds that have great capabilities, seem like they're going to solve all kinds of problems, but don't deliver because, you know, because the workflows weren't modified it. Because um because there wasn't the hard work to get the data infrastructure correct. You know, all those things. And so really what you've got, I think, is um progress being made, uh, but at the same time not enough to offset the additional complexities that are being inserted into the supply chain as it's evolved.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Well, now on technology, where do you see the biggest on top opportunity to materially improve performance? Is there one era specific, uh, and maybe logistics specific, given that that's your area of expertise?

SPEAKER_01 26:08

So sure, yeah. I mean, that's my world, right? So that's what I would know about. You know, look, I think there's all kinds of opportunities. Our business is full of inefficiencies. Our bull, our business is full of um black holes, if you will, right? You know, so I think it's really exciting. I don't think there's ever been a more exciting time. There's never been more opportunity out there. You know, clearly, I think what a lot of people are talking about is process automation, and I think deploying AI to automate core processes, um, which is very exciting. I mean, we have seen, you know, significant improvements at Redwood from a productivity perspective through process automation. Last four years, we estimate about a 39% improvement in, for example, loads per day per dispatcher, right? Those kinds of things, right? So we are making real progress. And there's still literally that's the tip of the iceberg, right, in that regard. Um, but what gets me, I think, more excited really is what can happen with better decision making, whether it's automated decision making or facilitated decision making, right? Like for me, my my human costs are about one-tenth of my cost of purchase transportation. So for every 1% of purchase transportation cost that I can improve or reduce through better decision making, I would need to bring a 10% reduction in sort of headcount to equal that. So I love what we're doing in order to help all of our people and our customers make better decisions. So we're doing a lot on the pricing front. We're doing a lot on modeling. You know, we're building digital twins that are going to enable us to replicate our customers' operating environment on an ongoing basis. So we can scenario test and we can try to figure out, okay, what's the right thing to do here? If we change this and we change that, I call it a what-if machine. You know, we make all these changes. What's the net impact on cost efficiency, on service efficiency, all those kinds of things? When technology can can uh allow us to do that, you know, when that's the kind of work that our people are doing instead of you know booking appointments, you know, I think that that the that the the value creation is just is just almost limitless.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I I I love your pragmatic perspective that at the end technology needs to translate into execution, right? So which I fully agree. So it's not this irrelevant. So so now so just recapping a little bit. So so the ownership models are converging, platforms are rising, technology is everywhere, right? So what ultimately defines a winning supply chain organization?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. That's a good question. I mean, look, I think I think at the end of the day, um everybody that's working in supply chain is trying to create competitive advantage, real value uh for the company, right? For the for the for the shipper. Um, really trying to um do more than just procure well, do more than than secure capacity, right? Um I think really winning is is working hand in glove with the business, right? And being able to offer optionality, um, to offer certainly deliver on on the promises, right? There's a there's a real heavy necessity for strong consistency, right? At the same time, I think there's a very real, you know, the supply chains that that win in the future are gonna be very adaptable, they're gonna be very flexible because we're gonna be seeing lots of change. And I think we saw in COVID the limitations of many supply chains that that lacked that. The supply chains that won were the supply chains that could adapt uh to a different and unforeseeable environment. And I think that that's gonna be true in the future. Those are the supply chains that win. The ones that are really able to deliver competitive advantage under a variety of operating circumstances and change dynamics.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

So I fully agree. But at the same time, you know, we live in a very volatile world and network, right? And and how do you scale that execution in a very with this high level of volatility?

SPEAKER_01 30:23

How do you think Yeah, I look, I think I I think it it is it is challenging, you know, to be able to, you know, scale so so to be able to deal with growth, right? And and become better, right, not worse, and be able to deal with all of um all of the variables that are constantly coming at you in that in that additional complexity. So to me, uh what we are real believers in integration, right? For us, you know, we are an integration platform. We believe that that you can't manage something um that isn't integrated into your workflows and into your systems, right? And so so we believe that that the secret to scale and the secret to dealing with complex operating environments that are constantly changing is being deeply integrated with the business and deeply integrated with your partners' data sets and the technologies that are out there that can help you deal with all of those variables. So so that's that's where we start with all of this. And you know, from there, of course, you know, you need to, uh in a highly complex world, you need to um really think through your workflows, right? Uh and really think about how am I going to perform if I am 20% larger, 25% larger. Am I gonna have to throw people at it, or can I use technology to decouple, right, you know, between between volume and workload on my human resources? And um it's a challenge. I think there's no question about it, but um, but I do think that there's um that that that we're now at a place from a technology perspective, um, where you can scale um even in a highly complex world very effectively, and actually end up at the end of the day with that sort of data flywheel um with a better service, with a more consistent uh execution capability um than you did going in. And I think that's what we're all striving for.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Thank you. I think that that's an I I I love your your your response to this one. So uh, you know, we're we're coming to the end of our conversation, but you know, one thing that you know, I've gotten a lot of feedback about the part of this conversation that people enjoy a lot is when I'm able to you know get the human side of the people that I talk with and share their insights. So if you indulge me, I'll do a quick rapid fire QA just to share a little bit about that and just to hear a bit about about Mark Jager, the guy, not executive, right? So so one capability every supply chain leader must build now.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Uh flexibility. I really think flexibility, right? I I think it's absolutely the critical skill. And um, you just gotta have it. And I I think we are too we we can get too institutional in supply chain and too locked down, and that's just not the future, right? We it's all about being able to adapt.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you two answers to the next one. So AI, is it overhyped or underutilized? Why?

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Well, I'd say both, but I can't choose both, I suppose. Um look, I would say underutilized right now. I mean, look, the hype cycle is crazy. I don't think I've ever seen anything with that kind of hype. At the same time, I don't think I've ever seen anything with this kind of potential. So I think if we look in 10 years, I don't think we'll feel like it was overhyped as much as we will look at how we were using AI and really consider it to be really so nascent, right? Like really so early stage. I think we'll be using AI in fundamentally different ways. It'll be much more pervasive. Um, and so I think in that sense, the level of utilization is going to be uh uh you know exponential, right? Whereas, you know, at some point I think it'll come pretty close to hitting the hype cycle. So I've got to go with underutilized at this point.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

So um we talk about platform, we talk about assets. Which one creates more value over the next decade?

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Well, um, so look, I as I said before, I think I believe that assets create tremendous value because they are a part of the world. We're a platform company. I gotta go with platform on that one for sure, because I think that that um that really, you know, these platforms get more and more valuable. They're producing more and more value as they grow and as they continue to become a part of the broader supply chain uh world, right? So to me, these platforms are still early stage, and the the need for orchestration uh that these platforms can facilitate um is going to really grow tremendously over the course of time. Whereas assets will continue to be somewhat linear.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

Maybe a last one, and and I fully agree. I think at the end, over the next 10 years, probably platforms but assets enabled for sure. So the which is the biggest execution mistake you see repeating over and over again nowadays?

SPEAKER_01 35:24

I think the the biggest execution mistake we see is not building the foundation, right? That's that's really necessary, right? And we have, you know, um it's it's good for us because it's it's a core competency for us, but but we see so many, so many shippers um who even large sophisticated shippers who who don't have, for example, harmonized data, right? And so they're really operating in multiple silos. They they they have a lot of data that they can't really use because it's apples to oranges, right? And so so to me, the biggest mistake that we see is folks not building that foundation before they start, right? I mean, that's the work. You know, you've got to have that foundation to innovate um meaningfully, you've got to have that that solid foundation across the entire organization, not broken out into silos.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

You know, uh just to wrap it up, you know, one last question, and I tend to ask everyone, all my guests, this question, you know. Now, as I reflect on everything we discussed today, so converging of public and private models, the shift towards platforms, the role of technology and capital. What is one belief or mindset shift that leaders must adopt or strengthen now to successfully navigate the transformational momentum that we're leaving in the supply chain space?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Well, that's a great question. I mean, there are many challenges. I think there's no no doubt about that. To me, what really uh everyone should be mindful of is are they building an organization that can embrace change, right? An organization that can um that can recognize um where issues are occurring uh and and and and work in a constructive way to improve, right? To get better, to bring on new technology, to bring on new partners. You know, the the good performance of today isn't going to be good enough tomorrow, right? And so I think we all have to be ready for a pace and level of change that we haven't seen in our uh careers. And and our organizations need to be capable and um uh eager to undertake that kind of change because because I think I think that that it's coming, and and the people that win are the people that are going to be able to adapt to that.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

I have to ask, you know, one last question. You know, I hear your energy and your passion on the topic and the discussion over the last few minutes. And you know, what keeps your momentum going all this time? You know, hopefully you have you have a lot of energy. So what keeps you going, you personally?

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Well, I love it. I mean, I I love the business, you know. I I love our team. We have this amazing team at Redwood. They're they're very innovative, they're high energy, you know, they're fun. I love our customers. I love the fact that we're solving problems, you know. So so to me, I've been in the business now for I guess 34 years, something like that. And it's always been it, it's always been full of challenges, uh, but full of great people. And it's interesting intellectually, you know. I I uh uh I just uh to me it's it it it's it's such an enjoyable uh part of my life, right? That that uh I look forward to going to work, you know, it's it's not a problem.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

So that's that's awesome. You know, you know, uh as I reflect on the conversation, right? You know one powerful reality comes to mind, you know, the industry may debate public or private, assets or platform, technology operations. But at the end, the real differentiator is probably simpler, right? It's the ability to execute consistently, at scale, under pressure. And the future won't belong to one model. I think we discussed it. It will belong to those that can integrate some discipline from the public markets, the agility of private markets, uh, and the power of platform-driven ecosystems, right? Uh at the end, supply chains are not just infrastructure, they are, from my perspective, the performance engine of companies. So I just have to say thank you for joining us, Mark. I appreciate your it was uh it was a pleasure having you. I'll give you the last word if you want to have any any final remarks.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Oh, I would just say thank you very much for having me. It's it's been great. I really enjoyed it, and um appreciate the opportunity to to talk about Redwood and talk about the industry.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

And um thank you for uh thank you for having me. Thanks for joining. I appreciate it. So, to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share with fellow operators, innovators, and leaders across the supply chain ecosystem. I'm Luis Olana, and this is the momentum flow, where clarity, capital, and conviction keep supply chains and leaders moving forward. Until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and keep the momentum flowing. Thank you.