Checkin' In Podcast - Destination Marketing Meets Big Data

Checkin In Hospitality & Tourism Podcast – Episode 7
Destination Marketing Meets Big Data

Recorded live on Wednesday, April 29th at 11:00 AM

This episode is a deeper look at how data is actually shaping tourism strategy today and what it means for hospitality leaders on the ground.

This episode features:

Ktimene Axetell, CEO of Arrivalist
An economist and seasoned MarTech leader with 25 years of experience, Ktimene leads Arrivalist’s strategy and product evolution, helping position the platform as a leader in visitor intelligence, media attribution, and behavior analytics. Her background includes leadership roles with Sony Pictures Digital, Napster, IAC Advertising Solutions, and Epsilon, along with hands on destination experience with Amelia Island CVB where she earned the HSMAI Platinum Award in Sustainability. Her work bridges global media, tourism strategy, and real world application of data in destination marketing.

Jacob Pewitt Yancey, Head of Analytics at Arrivalist
Former Director of Consumer Insights & Analytics at VISIT FLORIDA, Jacob led the team responsible for measuring marketing performance, shaping statewide tourism strategy, and tracking the overall health of Florida’s tourism economy. An economist by training, his background spans multiple Florida state agencies, with a focus on turning complex data into clear, actionable insights that decision makers can actually use.

Together, we will get into:

How destination marketing is evolving with real behavioral data, not assumptions
What tourism demand actually looks like right now and where it is shifting
How operators and destinations should be thinking about attribution and ROI
Where marketing dollars are working and where they are being wasted
What hospitality leaders should be paying attention to over the next 12 to 24 months

This will be a practical, grounded conversation for hotel, resort, and tourism leaders who want a clearer view of what is actually driving demand and how to adjust strategy accordingly.

You can follow Peter Ricci at:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterriccihospitality/

You can follow Jeremy Nichols at:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremycnichols/

https://www.youtube.com/@JeremyNichols

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Good morning and welcome to Check in In Live, the Hospitality and Tourism podcast. I am one of your hosts, Jeremy Nichols with Gecko Hospitality. I am a headhunter executive recruiter in the state of Florida. And as always, I am joined by my good friend, Dr. Peter Ritchie. How are you, Peter?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Hey, hey, all good. It's uh it's fun tourism, two-week stretch for me. We've got national HR in hospitality, uh, excellence in education for Florida Restaurant Lodging, Global Meetings Industry Day, Global Business Travel Association, you name it. It's it's exciting. And I'm like, I've been very zen this morning preparing for all the different audiences and friends, and I can't wait to be with the HR people. I mean, I just can't wait. That's my favorite of all because we're all gonna talk, what do we do? Labor, retention. I'm excited, it's a fun time.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Is that the one in Miami?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Uh that's in Hollywood, and then uh Global Global Meetings Industry Day MPI is doing things in Miami, and uh, you know, we've got FIFA, Formula One, we've got all these big things coming to South Florida, so everybody is uh trying to get staffed, be prepared, showcase the destination, and it's it's just exciting. And it ties right into our destination chat today. So it's I'm I'm I'm thrilled. It's it's you're just a really fun stretch of time, and I don't know how they all piled up so close together in Florida, and then we got Florida Attractions Association, um, not too much longer down the road in Tampa, so it's good stuff. Oh, in Tampa, yeah, it's at the Merritt Waterside.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

You know what that means. You better tell me so I can run on over.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah, it's the end of the last day, two days of May, first day of June. So Florida Attractions Association, so it's a nice group, too.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Depending on how we do in the playoffs with the Tampa Bay Lightning, it might be a very energetic time to be here. So that's very true. Fingers crossed. But if you're watching live, uh definitely if you have any questions or comments, please put them in the chat and we'll pull them up to the screen. Any questions you have, we'll try to answer those for you. But without further ado, I want to bring out our first guest. Um, she is with you uh arrivalist, and it's Timiny. Timony, can you welcome to the show? Hello, thanks, Jeremy, Peter CEO of uh Arrivalist. Can you uh tell me a little bit about Arrivalist or tell Peter and I both about Arrivalist and uh about yourself?

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Yes, thank you for having me. It is a pleasure to be here. Um, as you said, I'm CEO of Arrivalist. We are a travel analytics and media measurement company that is purpose-built for tourism. We work largely with destinations, some attractions like Disney, and we're expanding and we answer really fundamental questions. Where do my visitors come from? When do they arrive in terms of seasonality? Um, where do they go? We can now answer how do they spend in our local economy and how do they respond to the media? Is it really moving the needle? Is it inspiring them to do more, to spend more, to explore new places? And our mission is to use data to actually enhance quality of life for residents in destinations so that that visitor welcome can be implicit.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

That is why I'm very excited to have you. And Peter and I have been talking for a while, Peter. This is episode seven. I think we've had this conversation since the beginning. That not only do we want to talk about hospitality, but to actually have actually actually have facts and proof in data to back the way we feel. Because a lot of times I'm just going by the gut or what I hear, what we see, but to have big data and specific examples to to prove us right or wrong is something that I'm very interested to hear more about.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Well, it's it's a pleasure to have you. And there's so many initiatives globally about, you know, and this has gone on for decades, to try to get the residents to understand the impact of tourism and how tourism helps you have a better life as a resident because things we build for intro infrastructure, more restaurants, more opportunities, festivals, events. And you know, I went through the certified tourism ambassador training that Discover the Palm Beaches has. And I've lived in South Florida for 48 years, and I still learned about a hundred new attractions and things to do that I didn't I was never aware of that are right here in the backyard. So I love that the data is also informing the residents. That's that's real interesting.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Yeah, we have to create narratives uh with them, right? So they understand the importance of tourism. Tourism indirectly, you know, here in in Nassau County, it's it's it's paving the roads, it's indirectly paying the school teachers in a way. So there's the education, and part of the onus is is on the DMO for that, but then you know it's it's looking at perceptions, right? Is there a perception of over tourism or tourists are just creating, you know, creating traffic or this idea of economic free riders? I'm an economist, I'll probably talk about that a bit today, and using facts to dispel myths and to create connections with the community because DMOs they're accountable to private industry, like hoteliers, they're they're boards, and now they're accountable to residents as well. So they need new data and tools to tell those stories, and that's where we fit in.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Wow, and for your you know, for our viewers that aren't in the hospitality business that are exploring it, DMO is our more modern term, destination marketing organization. And you know, here in Florida we have 67 counties, and most of the states have a DMO in certain geographic areas, if not all geographic areas. So everyone's trying to promote and showcase their own regional attributes, uh attractions, um, unique natural attractions, man-made attractions. Everybody's trying to promote in a positive way, and that's what the DMOs do. Historically, they were convention and visitors bureaus, only focused on the business travel. So look at where we are 2026 in um in the in the impetus of promoting and analyzing and then making things better. And over you mentioned over tourism, um, it's it's a problem right now. So residents need to be aware of what the positive is and how to prevent the negative. So interesting.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

I also want to bring out we have two guests today. So not only do we have Tiffany, CEO of Arrivalists, but we also have Jacob Yancy, head of analytics. We bring Jacob to the screen. Hey Jacob. How are you? Good morning. I'm doing great. Thanks. Welcome. Welcome to the show. And for those out there who don't know what a head of analytics does, I mean it sounds pretty self-explanatory. Can you explain it?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Absolutely. So um the title is a little bit misleading because it makes it seem like I'm just focused on numbers. But my role at Arrivalist is really very broadly product focused, uh, and you know, understanding what the needs are of the customers that Arrivalist works with, the destinations and uh attractions that we work with, so that we can make sure that the, you know, we take this these vast troves of data that we have and turn it into something that actually helps them make decisions and understand the situation in their destination and make sure that it's user-friendly and uh all the wonderful uh attributes that anybody would be looking for in a product. Um, my background prior to coming to Arrivalist was as the research director for Visit Florida, one of the largest state tourism offices uh out there. So I've got a really strong background in understanding what it is that destinations are looking for in their data needs. And so that's what I do here at Arrivalist is is put that background to good use.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

For for someone who has only worked on the hotel or restaurant side, do you do you both see things from a different lens? Timony, do you do you see things from a different lens than a hotel year or restaurant tour?

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Yeah, so if you're thinking about a DMO who we serve, um you have to imagine that you're living day and night inside of the product, right? The destination. You you don't leave, right? And it is an experience that you don't have full control over. And yet you have this broad array of stakeholders I mentioned, right? Private industry, public and uh industry, the residents. And at the same time, you probably don't have as much first party data as a restaurant or a hotel does. So you don't know necessarily when they're in your ecosystem. And when I say that, I mean geographically, or like they're physically in the destination, right? There's no turnstile, right? They don't flash their badge to get in. Um, or are they in my ecosystem or are they on my website? Are they on my LinkedIn page? Right. So first party data isn't a strong. Um, there's also just a philosophically, I think, a different approach, you know, um, hotel, restaurant, lifetime value, developing the customer through that first party data, right? That we don't have as a destination. So very different approaches. You've got a you know, kind of like a more of a customer is always right approach versus how do we serve all these broad stakeholders? And that is changing day by day as DMOs get into more destination stewardship and destination advocacy. I love working on the DMO side because you do interact with hotels, with restaurants, and it's thinking about this landscape of all the businesses and all the experiences in the destination holistically. And even though you can't control them and you don't sell them directly, you can influence and you can bring all of them together through great storytelling.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Wow, that's fantastic. And you know, it's just so important because um visitors to a community bring so much, and the residents give so much with their knowledge and their welcoming and and the interaction, you know, and our industry has a tendency to be very siloed. So if you've worked in attractions your whole life, you tend to stay in attractions. You're a restaurateur, you tend to stay in the restaurant space. So we very rarely look and throw the net out, just how important the data is of people coming in and where are they going? Why are they coming? Where are they spending? What do they like? What's bringing them here? Is our media that we put out there to attract them? Is it working? Is there ROI? There's so many pieces that it's just fascinating. I, you know, one of my questions for for both of you is how do the the in your opinion, how do these different DMOs um interact? Some are new and and young in their career, whereas Jacob mentioned, visit Florida, visit Florida, visit California. Those are in my, I guess, are the biggies, and that's I'm just guessing, you know, destination DC, some of these very large ones have done it for years. But how do how do you help a smaller or newer? And what's the difference with a more established one?

SPEAKER_03 12:28

Um I can take a first pass of that, Jacob. Um, I think one of the most interesting relationships is that between that of the state DMO and the counties and cities, because the state can not only share best practices, but also be a gatekeeper, open, open them up to um to media that they could not ordinarily afford, um, to data opportunities and subscriptions they couldn't um ordinarily afford. So when we work with states, part of our role, you know, beyond the visitor analytics, is to find ways to get the critical information to individual DMO so collectively they can make good decisions. This, you know, like the rising tide lifts all the boats. Um, that that metaphor, right? They're making decisions on the ground. And collectively, that's going to be good for the state. So we like to explore the state and the individual DMO. You might hear about data co-ops or or media co-ops. So we're very much in that space. We want the state DMO to look good and to be the hero who's bringing the smaller DMOs those opportunities and making them financially um accessible.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

I have a question. Um when you uh this is for Jacob, actually. So I'm glad that you're chiming in. When you first started, I'm sure it was pretty difficult to get products to answer real questions. What were those questions and why were they so difficult to solve at the time?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Yeah, so um I first started working in the DMO space when I started at Visit Florida back in 2012. And you know, prior to that, my career had been working in a bunch of different places in Florida state government and roles related to policy and economics and that sort of thing. So uh when I first started at Visit Florida, it was sort of like drinking from a fire hose, trying to get on my feet and understand this whole DMO space and what exactly it is a DMO even does, and what tools we had at our disposal to try to do those things. And there are, um there were at that time, and even more so now, a lot of different data sources that all have different methodologies, uh, and they are useful for answering different types of questions. And so uh the step number one really was just trying to wrap my head around what all of the data was that was out there and what were its strengths and what were weaknesses and what answers uh what questions could they try to answer? And I did that in an environment where each of the companies that was trying to sell us those those data sources were trying to convince us that their what their one data source could answer every question that we might have. And that that simply wasn't the case. So really the biggest thing was, you know, how do I integrate different data sources with different methodologies to try to answer all of the questions that that we had as a destination? And whenever we would you know, bring on a new person onto the team at Visit Florida, one of the things that I always said was if you if you have a question that you think you'd like an answer to, please come to us and ask the question. It could be like an absolutely absurd question, and you're like, there's there's no way that these people are gonna have data to answer this question, but we might. Uh, it also could be the simplest, most straightforward question in the world, in your opinion. And our answer would be like, sorry, we just literally don't have numbers that can actually answer that question. And and that continued to be the case through the whole time that I was at Visit Florida. The the data that's out there, um, different sources are good for answering different types of questions and and really just understanding that is hard. And and you know, as a provider of data now, one of the most important things to us is setting proper expectations with customers about these are the questions that we are good at answering. Other types of research are going to be better at answering other types of questions. So that way that people have realistic expectations about what they get from us and aren't disappointed when they discover that uh there is in fact not a one solution for all questions thing out there.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Jacob, I think this is why you and I work so well together too. You know, you've worked at a leading state DMO. I worked with national tourism offices when I did my graduate research with United Nations World Tourism Organization in Madrid, um, worked with some developing countries in both hemispheres. And I've also worked at a small, but I would say punching above its weight, Florida DMO at Amelia Island. So we've really worked across the breadth and we know what tools are available. And between the two of us, I think we've worked with nearly everyone or at least every type of instrument. So this allows us to be very intellectually honest about what we do the best, what we do well, where there are areas of overlap or redundancy and why sometimes that redundancy is okay. Do we validate each other? How do we explore areas of difference between credit card spending data and surveys? So we work well with any partners that a DMO uh works with. As long as we have license to have those conversations, we want to figure out where we validate each other, where there are areas of discrepancy, how to explore those. So I think that's that's one thing that we do well. There's always this conversation about correlation versus causation. I know that there are students in the audience, and you're probably working on experiments, and you know that correlation does not equal causation. It's actually very hard to prove, even in epidemiology. There are eight ways to prove it. Um so a rivalist for years has been focused on causation and not just correlation. We don't want to be the ones with the biggest necessarily reporting the biggest ROI in the room. We want the truest, the truest ROI. That's why we have something called lift studies where we compare target and control groups. We've been doing this very well for years. But the elephant in the room was always, but how much are they spending? Right. Not everybody understands percentages, not not everybody's as smart as your students who are on the other side. Um, but everyone understands dollar signs. So for us, it was incumbent upon us last year when we became, you know, a new a new company to listen to the marketplace and make sure that our metrics had those dollar signs and could clearly communicate um our OI. So that's how we've transformed. And it comes from understanding the entire research and analytics space and how a destination makes decisions with a limited budget on who to bring into their stack and how they work together.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

And you you're based in Florida right now?

SPEAKER_03 19:33

I'm I am still based on uh on Amelia Island. Yes, the company is based in uh in Miami. That's been a big change for us.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

Is that like how how how meaningful is it that you're based in Florida, especially given how active and competitive the market is?

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Yeah, yeah, it's it's important to us. And it actually came about organically in a sense. I've been here for about 12 years. I moved here from Chicago. Um, our former CEO, our co-founder uh Cree Lawson, um, I think it was before the pandemic, he moved from New York to South Florida for a different quality of life with his family. Our co-founder Tibor Moses, who is our current executive chairman, moved from the San Francisco Bay Area to South Florida. I was sitting here the whole time, like I already knew it was it was a great, great place for for me. Um so when Tibor purchased the company back from private equity in December of 2020, um, of 2024, um, just before I came on board, you know, it was a chance, it was a chance to rebrand. And we kept the arrivalist name, but we reinvented everything else or reimagined everything else. So, you know, everything from our logo to our mission statement is inspired by by Florida destination. So our new logo, it's it's orange, and that's it's it's Florida sunshine and transparency, which we're committed to. It is the freshness of insights, like the fresh, that fresh bite of citrus root, right? Um that is that is our logo. Um, but it's also this fire and this passion for what we do and our roles because this is an industry where your job has meaning. It can impact and influence quality of life. So it's that fire, but also we see Florida as the crucible where destinations are forged. I think we can all agree we've had our fair share of challenges here. Um many types, but we always emerge stronger and we learn and we rebound because it's a great product. So there were some parallels and the kind of the rebirth or the renaissance of arrivalists that really tied back to Florida. Um having Tibor here in Miami and actively hiring and uh in inside of Florida, um, it means a lot to us that we that we're based here and that we have that that contact with all. Florida DMOs, you know, working with Visit Florida, working with destinations like uh Marion, uh Marion County, um, and and Ocala, working with that spread along with you know, Disney and other attractions.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Wow, that's fantastic. And you know, I find the DMO, the whole destination promotion, you know, a uh many people who again work in a hotel, restaurant, cruise line, etc., don't realize we have the promotion at the world level with the United Nations Tourism Organization, economic travel patterns, travel for peace, etc., etc. Then you go to the country level and you've got the brand USAs promoting the whole country, then you go to the state level, and then you go to the sub-levels within. So destination marketing is is at every level. And you know, I can't help but go back to Jacob's comment. Um, when I deal with I'm a hotel GM. I want the data, I want to know who's coming, how can I get more of them, who's spending the most staying the longest. But if one destination says a visitor is measured by someone who has to stay three nights minimum, and another's measuring it by 24 hours or day visitors, the data is all bumble jumble, and I'm an operator. I have no background in statistics, I never studied economics. I just want you to tell me, you know, how I can do better. So it's interesting how you brainiacs have to sort through all of this and really give it to me as the person that's running a Domino's franchise and say, how do I get more of the people visiting Marion County? I want them to buy more pizzas. So I like to take all of it and then funnel it and say, How do you help me? You know, and Jacob, when you present it several times at Visit Florida, I like that part of your ability to say, hey, we're measuring this one's measuring it this way, this way, this way. In the end, this is kind of what it means, this is what you can do with it. So that that's the that's the end game for for our you know, our viewers and most people in this business. That is everywhere now, and it's it scares a lot of people, and there's too much of it and too many angles coming at you. So I rely on experts like you to say, okay, Mr. General Manager of your courtyard in uh you know, Wisconsin. Here's who's coming, here's your your fishing ground, go get more of those visitors. And I I imagine that's that's that's what your your daily con conversations aim toward.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah, absolutely. Um you're you're right that there are a lot of people, especially in the destination marketing world, who probably don't come from a background where they're spending a lot of time digging deep in research. Uh, and you know, that's a skill that I really honed during my days working for the Florida legislature. Uh, there are, you know, when you're when you're speaking to a group of legislators, those people are coming from such a wide variety of backgrounds. You're probably going to have at least one or two attorneys in the room, but you could also have people who came from local elected office or, you know, for some for whatever reason in the Florida legislature, there are a lot of funeral directors, is a pretty common background for people to have. And so being able to figure out how to communicate uh in a way that your audience understands is super vital when you're in that kind of role. And I think it's also super vital uh for the kind of people who'd be listening to this podcast. You know, Timony mentioned earlier that you've probably got some students. The one the one thing that I would say to really any student, no matter what you're studying, and no matter what your ultimate career goals are, is spend some time learning how to communicate, how to break ideas down, how to get other people to understand them. No matter what role you're in, that is an under-trained skill that will really help get you uh get you where you need to be.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

When you're you're when you're presenting data for your your clients or your partners, do you feel like there's sometimes a disconnect between what you're trying to present and the operators? Like, do you like where do you see the big biggest disconnect today between destination level strategy and what operators are experiencing on the ground?

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just um where you're viewing the picture from. You use that phrase just now on the ground, right? And I think that that's uh uh an important phrase to have used. When you're at a destination, uh a DMO, you really have to look at things from a 30,000-foot view. You've got this entire place that you're trying to not exactly manage, uh, because as so many mentioned earlier, you don't have the same kind of levers to pull as an actual business, a hotel or a restaurant or an attraction has. All you really have is the brand of that destination. That's kind of the one lever as a DMO that you can try to pull. And you have so many different stakeholders. Uh, you have, as Timony's mentioned, the hoteliers, the people sitting on your board, the local elected officials who probably control your funding sources, the residents who are gonna have an influence over those local elected officials. And so you have to take this 30,000-foot view. And that gives you a different view because even within a medium-sized destination, it could be the case that this little segment of the destination is doing really well, and this other little segment of the destination is not. Using hotels as an example uh and looking at like what the picture looks like in data right now, if you are uh uh someone who works at a luxury or very upscale scale hotel uh in April of 2026, your numbers are probably looking pretty good. If you're somebody who works at a more budget motel or a mid-scale hotel, your numbers might not be looking as good right now. And those two hotels could be half a mile away from each other. Uh, but when you're down there on the ground in a very specific situation, the view that you have is what's going on right there in that little micro level.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

And so we all go by our gut, you know, a lot of times or what limited info we have.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Right. So, and and that puts a lot of different poles on a destination because they've got to manage these stakeholders who are who have different needs and who also are in different situations even at the same time in terms of how the industry is doing.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

There's there's a tension there that intrigues me, which is if you're uh a luxury resort in Florida, you are probably interested in maximum yield, right? Extracting the most, keeping someone on property at your restaurants and your retail. Now, as the DMO, we may be able to see that those who explore more of the destination who are not cloistered but experience outside the walls of the resort, saying those interests are at odds, we may see that they're likelier to be a return visitor to the destination. So if you're that luxury resort and you're thinking about lifetime value, is it better to keep them in the walls, or is it actually better to get them to visit the historic downtown? So that's where you're not getting paid, but that could actually enhance their propensity to return not only to the destination, but to your resort. And that's where we need more collaboration. But again, the interests are at odds.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

I, you know, I have to just throw this in there and ask. I mean, having lived in a the most visited state in the US for a long time, there's still a perception that we don't need to promote destinations. And, you know, that people will come anyway. And that's something that, you know, Jacob had to deal with in the legislators, you know, it comes up every year, whether it's Florida, whether it's Paris, whether it's Nepal, there's always a thinking people will come anyway. So do you also use the data to educate the local population and the political powers that be that yes, this spend has done XYZ? I mean, do you have a story to tell there as well?

SPEAKER_03 30:56

Yes, this goes back to the correlation versus causation. It's true, some of them will come anyway, and we actually measure that. We look at those who are not exposed to the destination's website, who are not exposed to the digital media and see what that baseline level of visitors is. Maybe they own a second home, maybe they're coming for a wedding, whatever it is they haven't been exposed. It's important to look at those two cohort groups so you can clearly discern those who would arrive anyway, and those who are invited and inspired and influenced by the media. So, first of all, it's an important question, and our instruments are built to answer it. Um, and I was going somewhere else with that idea. But Jacob, maybe could you mind read? Do you know where I was going with that or anything to add there? I'll try to come back to it.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Yeah, sure. Not uh unfortunately, my psychic abilities haven't woken up yet this morning. Um, but the other thing that I'll say is as somebody said, you know, for any destination, it is absolutely true that some visitors are going to visit anyway. There's no need, however, for a DMO to be able to prove that every single visitor in the destination is because of their marketing, right? The DMO is just one thing that's influencing a person's decision to travel. They're pulling that lever of branding the destination and making it the kind of place, the kind of experience that travelers want to have and want to feel. But the hotels there are advertising, the restaurants there are advertising, the attractions there are advertising as well. So there are a lot of other influences. The DMO's budget is one drop in that bucket of advertising. And really, all you need to prove is not every single visitor in this destination is because of our DMO advertising, but just enough of the visitors wouldn't come, wouldn't have come but for our advertising, that the spending that those people did in the destination more than makes up for the budget that you're giving us as a result. Um, one of the things that we have been looking at a lot in our data lately uh is in in credit card spend the spending patterns of visitors to the destination versus locals. And this is a really important piece for advocacy on both ends. Uh, you might have one destination where the residents are convinced that tourism just doesn't matter to us at all. We're not a Florida, we're not a Paris, we're just this town that doesn't have a super tourism focused economy, or you might have a destination that feels like they're drowning in visitors. Um, and in either one of those cases, being able to look at by business category for grocery stores and for restaurants and for bookstores, what that balance is of visitor spending versus local spending can really, really illuminate um that question in ways that people don't always think about. If you're a resident in a place, you might be annoyed by the traffic that the visitors uh bring, but you've probably got at least a couple of restaurants that you really like going to, and you've got um your local grocery store, and you might not know that even for those grocery stores, a lot of times, 10, 15, 20% of the spending that's happening in grocery stores is not local residents, but people who are coming into town and maybe they forgot their toothbrush and toothpaste, or maybe they've got a vacation rental uh on the beach and they want a large group and they want to cook for everybody. So they got to go to the grocery store and stock up. And you know, if you're a business owner, you understand that if you lose 10 or 15% of your revenue, bad things are gonna happen to your business. So even uh in those sort of not quote unquote like not touristy types of industries, that visitor spending really makes the difference between those businesses being able to be there and not be there. Uh, and and that's a super important thing for people to understand. Wow, that's fascinating.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

Listening to both you speak, there's like so many questions that you're finding the answers to, some things that I I wouldn't have never even thought of. And my my question is, how are you taking large, complex data sets and making them usable for people who are not analysts, people like me? How are you doing this?

SPEAKER_03 35:26

First of all, it's listening to the marketplace. So it's always that question what are the gaps in your research and analytics stack? What are the questions that you really need to answer to make the destination thrive? But also things like keep your job, right? You have to be accountable, you have to have these answers. Um, so our clients in the marketplace, they're sourcing or creating this inventory of questions that need to be answered. We go back and and we prioritize um what to build. And it's very important. Like one of your questions at the beginning of this podcast was the difference between working with large demos and small ones. And there may be difference in differences in how much experience they they have working with data sets. You may have some folks who like a sentence output. Like my media investment resulted in this much lift in spending in bookstores or in restaurants. And that is the that is the quote they want to use. Um, and there may be some like Jacob who are more interested in getting the data in a spreadsheet format and manipulating it and creating different charts. So it's very important for us to know basically the personas of the users. Um, our product, it is, it is hands-on keyboards. It is a SAS, and that means software as a service. Um, that's the product, right? They log in, they get the dashboards with updates that clear clearly tell stories about seasonalities and oh, look at this spike in spending on this event, or look like Los Angeles visits at a completely different time of year than San Francisco does. I wonder why that is. Well, let's dig in further and see where they go. So we have to answer the questions in the interface for those visual learners. We need to have the data at the ready to download for those who are really comfortable in spreadsheets and reworking that that data to tell the specific story or to support their agenda. Um, we go and present at conferences, we present at board meetings. Um, we are the analysts in some cases. You know, the clients maybe they they don't have the time to log in. Like, okay, what do you need to prove? Let's see if the data corroborates that, right? Here are some opportunities, here's some things that went well, here's some opportunities to improve. So we have to be ready to meet our clients where they are on their journey with data and data storytelling. And that could be anywhere between a screen and a human that is interpreting. And that's what we pride ourselves on.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Well, and you know, the the skill sets, I I am sitting in this in the space of long-term hospitality guy turned educator. So the skill sets I see are either I'm super strong in analytics and data and IT and coding and reading, or I'm super strong in communications. And we, you know, to Jacob's point earlier, we're trying to find industry people who have the blended skills. Because having the data is one thing, but if you can't tell the story to the board in front of you or the the group of legislators that want to take some of the Taurus development tax away, you need the data to support the story in a meaningful way. And that's that's those are hard skill sets to combine. And um, you know, for for anybody that watches this podcast that works in the industry, do you have you know different ideas of paths they can take to either learn more or where do you become a better combo person? What skills do you need to develop for both sides? Because it's it seems hard to me to come to combine them.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Definitely. It's uh it is rare we hire folks who are facile in data sets, but who have the soft skills to understand the needs of the person on the other side, right? What is it like to walk in their shoes? How can I make their life easier? Um, and also to anticipate not just what they're asking for, but what are they not asking for that I can offer them that's a game changer? Like, how can I take my learnings from other states, cities, even other parts of the travel industry and apply it to this one client to illuminate, right? Um so I don't believe that AI is is it is a replacement for that combination. If we think of like a Venn diagram of being pacified with data and then like the soft skills and the communication. Um my my master's degree, I did it at Università della Sivizia Italiana in Lugana, Switzerland, and it was so appealing to me because it was a blend of economics and communication. And I go and I I teach the students, I guess lecture every year. And it tells me the most important skill is the ability to make decisions. Like going back to your question, what it what it what happens when you don't compete, when you stop advertising. Well, you have to be able to lay out what the opportunity costs, like what is the upside of this decision? What do you lose? Being able to see and understand trade-offs to make a persuasive argument is fundamental in any decision-making role, any um any management role. So I would encourage them to, you know, take an economics one-on-one class, even take it, uh, take it online, right? Um, Coursera, they're they're great opportunities to learn online. And then you you figure out how to layer AI and to work more work more efficiently. Um, but there there must be that um that grounding, those, those fundamentals in data and in communication.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

You know, um before we before we went live um in a prior convo, you mentioned the shift from marketing to stewardship. What does that look like in practice today? Can you explain that a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 41:47

So, stewardship, what what does that mean? It is about basically preserving authenticity in a destination, protecting the intrinsic or the endogenous tourism terms, endogenous assets. It could be a beach, it could be a species of sea turtle or another species called Homo sapiens, right? Um, or their experiences or architecture, right? How do we protect what is authentic and unique or highly differentiated in a world that is so commoditized? I was in I was in Costa Rica and they had a corner in Liberia that was uh it was like uh you know, Burger King, McDonald's. All right, so we're joking around, oh, it's a green, it's gringo corner. You know, there's commoditization there there, and I'm certainly not saying that it didn't have unique uh how was the McDonald's now there, by the way? So we were priced out of the market. We did the conversion on the the colognes. It was like $30 for a family meal. What we can't afford, no, no, we really preferred, we actually loved the I'll go off on a little tangent, just say we loved the, you know, the rice, the beans, the meat, the fantastic fruits. Um, we loved the diet there. Um, we have something called the cassada, like marrying the rice and beans and all these things. So we we love the authentic product. So, how do you preserve preserve those destination assets and goods and experiences? So the DMO, it's large largely, let's say, funded by bed tax dollars and budgets are 70, 75% towards tourism marketing. So those budgets will be spent and someone has to be accountable. And at the same time, you know, now we're accountable to the residents. We need to protect what is unique, or in the long term, why would they come to my destination if I've got big bucket stores and it's it's just like another, right? Maybe the beach distinguishes me, but how do you create a defensible product in the long run? And that means making decisions to tough decisions. Today that are gonna shape where you're at in five or ten years.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

I want to know a little bit about what kind of signals you're paying attention to right now. Like right, what are you paying attention to right now with you know visitor behavior and at the macro level?

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yeah. Oh gosh, I love this question. I am salivating, ready to answer it. Jacob, do you do you want me to go want me to take a first pass? I don't think recording the airtime. Okay, okay. So we talked about what we're doing with individual destinations. So looking at their entire visitor spending economy, uh, where they're coming from, the seasonality, um, the merchant categories, how did this event perform? What is the mix of locals and non-locals? Should I spend should I sponsor that event that really skews just towards locals? Is it actually putting heads in beds? Right. Um, it's it's answering those questions. And then um, I'll let Jacob talk about this more. But what Jacob is developing is something different. So, whereas we're interested in the in-market spend for individual destinations, the dollars that are likelier to initiate that multiplier effect where a dollar transforms into a dollar 30 on average, right? Not so interested in the online transactions where the OTAs are taking their piece, those dollars might not even be reaching the destination. On the flip side, when we look at the travel category and the subcategories like OTAs, airlines, hotels, then we care about online transactions and on the ground brick and mortar transactions because those could be proxies for consumer confidence during some very interesting times. So Jacob is actually building that product. I'll let you describe um DTSI.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Yeah, so uh Timony is talking about what we call the daily travel spend index, which is well, it's really daily travel spend indexes because we're looking at spending in a number of different categories at the daily level. We we're looking at airlines, OTA spending, uh hotels, and rental cars to have a very broad look at the overall state of some of the biggest signals in the travel industry to see how what people's behavior at a very macro, you know, we're looking at uh national data for every origin, every destination combined in these big industries to understand how travel demand looks almost up to the minute. Uh, you know, we'll have data through last week uh compared to how things were last year. And because it's of the mix of transactions that we're looking at, you know, you've got airline bookings where uh the transaction might be happening today, but it's for a trip six weeks from now. You've got rental car where you're probably um at the Avis right now, swiping your credit card to pay for a rental car that you're getting for a trip that you're currently on. It provides us a really good overall sense of uh both how travel is doing today and how consumers are feeling about travel over the near future. Uh so that's something that we're really excited to be to be launching soon. The other stream I want to talk about on this is that's something that we're super paying attention to is how travel is performing for different segments of the economy. Um, something a concept that your listeners might be familiar with if they read some of the nerdier news publications out there is the sense of what's called a K-shaped economy. And what that means is for some households, typically those with higher incomes, uh, and I alluded to this earlier with my hotel example, um, those people still doing a lot of traveling, still spending a lot of money, and it's growing year over year. For the households with lower uh household income, the numbers just are not looking as good. Inflation and uh you know, all of the events that are going on in the world and uncertainty about what the job market's going to look like in a few weeks is uh causing travel for those lower income households that have to be more budget conscious to not perform as well. And that can have really big impacts on destinate destinations, depending on the overall character of the destination, what kind of travelers that it caters to. And even within a destination, you know, this goes back to the different kinds of stakeholders that destinations have to manage. If you're a DMO, you're going to have some hotels and some attractions, et cetera, in your destination that cater to those upper uh income households. And you're gonna have some that are a lot more uh fueled by some of the lower income households. And as a destination, you have to be able to try to manage this scenario where those two sectors of your destination are performing so differently from each other, and there's this temptation when this kind of a situation develops to just dump all of your marketing dollars into attracting those high-dollar visitors because they're the ones that are still traveling and they're the ones that are still uh contributing money to the local economy, and that's totally understandable, but you're gonna have businesses in your destination where you can get all of the high-income travelers in the world, and those businesses are still not gonna attract those people. And as a destination, you've got that those are your stakeholders too, and you've got to do what you can to help those folks uh weather periods like this, and it's a real challenge.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

As a as a headhunter, I can tell you that the K-shaped economy, I don't have stats, but I have my gut, and I can tell you by job searches what we're working on, and you're exactly correct. Like the upscale, the luxury, the boutiques, the independence, they're hiring, they're not really telling me they're not hiring, and then the mid-scale to economy QSRs, fast casuals, quick serve, they're not doing as well, you know. And I know that just from job orders and conversations from you know owners. Do you use uh hiring or jobs posted and your analytics at all?

SPEAKER_00 50:20

That's a great idea. It's not something that we currently do.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Uh scroll the job boards. Who's hired?

SPEAKER_00 50:27

That is a good way of looking at it. Yeah, thanks for the idea.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

Well, still you know, it's it's interesting too because um the I'm living in one of those destinations, and so we participate with Smith Travel Research, whatever their name is now, the Share Center for Educators, and we can we can't share the data it's for students only, but I get a tri-county report, and after the students do their projects, then I'm okay sharing it because it's legit for ethics. So I'll share it about a month later than it is. You look tri-county macro level, and everything could be sunshine and and kitty cats, I call it, you know, and then within I've got the GM saying, Where's this coming from? I'm like, remember, it's not a tract, it's not a zone, it's not by level of brand, it's macro level. So if the high end is driving the superstar performance and you're running a select service lower end, you have a very different daily life's viewpoint of what's going on in the world. And that's why I love having professionals like the two of you to help break it down and help understand. I mean, it doesn't make them turn around to their owner with a happier face, but at least they have a leg to stand on and say, well, let's restructure. We shouldn't be going up 500% over budget to try and attract those visitors that aren't gonna come anyway, right? To Jacob's point. I mean, you can do all you want. Certain luxury guests are only gonna stay at luxury, they're only gonna go to Amon or or Ritz or Conrad or wherever they're going. They're not gonna come to your property. So I just I just find data fascinating. But I think typical individuals like me who are not well trained, we will use the data in the ways we want to see it. And that's where we need experts to guide us away from that tendency.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Something I'm very curious about, and I don't have the answer to this question yet, is within the K-shaped economy, um, how much of this is um high household income uh travelers versus how much of it is just economic signaling or this Instagram effect? Like I'm gonna look like I'm living this luxury lifestyle and it's really just systemic. It's an interest rates are so high and I'm, you know, I'm I'm Gen Z or younger bloody, I can't buy a house. So gosh darn it, I'm gonna spend it on travel instead because then I make a memory and I can take that with me my my whole life, like looking around, like really, how can so many people afford write this average average daily rate? And I'm looking at Revpart, like, really, like, are there so many of them that can drive that that that top leg of the K upward? So I am so curious about who they are, and these are questions we'll be able to answer soon.

SPEAKER_02 53:33

You need to find that out of their data activity, because I just read this morning that consumer confidence is up, and I gotta, of course, you I jump in the messages, of course, because that's where all the fun stuff is, and nobody's agreeing, but you just click on top stories, and here you go. There's a report. Consumer confidence inches higher in April, despite Iran war, and it goes up to the city.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

So federal, federal, I guess, because Florida sentiment is down, and again, it depends on the comments section. They're like, yeah, no. I know, I know. Interesting, but uh, you know, to Timony's point, I want to be an educated voice if I'm a DOSM or I'm a GM and I'm sitting with my owner. I want them to truly understand, you know, and practicality, the owner's always going to budget higher when they have a good year next year anyway, no matter what data you share with them. But the point being, we're living in a if they if the case-shaped economy is the the the term of the day, it's it's a Timmy's point, how long will they continue to spend and forego a house? And is that spending debt related on their end and what comes ahead? And you know, because the ADRs and the ref bars, uh, I'm not saying Florida, I'm saying in general, some of them are just unbelievable to me how they're being held up. And I see Jacob nodding. It's a shock to any of us who have worked in this industry for a long time because it just doesn't seem feasible when the rest of the things going on from gas price to grocery price to macro level geopolitical, they don't seem to add up. And it's kind of startling to me where to see the data.

SPEAKER_03 55:18

Yeah. Um, and going back to the discussion on data silos and thinking inside your property versus holistically as a destination. It's like you could be achieving top RevPAR right now, but are you increasing your your share of wallets? So that's something we're paying attention to, is clusters of hotels and comparing across classes, you know, in Las Vegas, right? What is the market share of this one mega resort versus the other? Like, you know, a lot of our destinations, they're looking at the co-star report, but that is not necessarily it is telling them how they're they're indexing or benchmarking against their competitive set on those three metrics, but it's not showing them share of wallet overall, right? And that's something we can you know define for any set of competitors to say, like, are you gaining share? Are you losing share when you look at that wallet or their total spending as a whole? How good are things really? Um, and if you're just looking at your own property, you're missing that view, you're missing that context of how you're competing, and that may influence how how you move rate over time.

SPEAKER_02 56:27

You know, it's uh 2026, and I can't let you get away without bringing up the the word AI or the two letters. How is it? I know, but hey, I gotta do it. How is it actually changing trip planning right now? Right. And and what does that mean for traditional channels like destination websites?

SPEAKER_03 56:49

Yeah. Um, who wants to go first, Jacob? You, me?

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Uh I'll I'll jump in. Um, you know, it's it's hard to say how widespread this is, but it is definitely the case that people are using AI as part of the trip planning process. I know Timony took a trip recently where part of it was planned uh with AI. I had to actually, my my very first day at Arrivalist uh back in last June, I was in Ireland because my first responsibility was going to be attending the Travel and Tourism Research Association conference uh on arrivalist's behalf. So I went over there a little bit early because I had you know a few days in between when I left Visit Florida and and started at Arrivalist. So I'm like, yeah, I'll uh free plane ticket, I'll go over there a little bit early and check the place out. I hate coming up with the details of trips. Like I just do not want to spend the time searching through like what neighborhood should I stay in and where should I go and what should I do? I just I find it super tedious. So for the first time ever, I had I let AI plan that entire trip for me. Every activity I did, what days I was in, what towns, like how was it everything. And honestly, I I had to make a couple of tweaks. Okay. But I just told it very generally about the kinds of topics that I'm interested in, and it came up with a really great itinerary for me. And I had a I had a blast. What does this mean for destinations? Um, a couple of things. Uh number one, it is it is just the fact of the matter that for at least some set of your of potential visitors, they are not gonna go to your website. I I know that we all wish that that was not the case, but it's we just have to deal with reality. Some travelers are no longer gonna end up in your website. They're either going to be working directly in a chat GPT or Claude or whatever, um, or they're gonna do some Google searching and not scroll past the AI summary that gets generated at the top of Google and not and not actually click into um websites. So you need to make sure that your destination website is set up from a technical standpoint in a way that lets those uh AI tools train themselves on your data that is on your website. There's a real temptation not to do that because you don't want to give them free access to all of this stuff that you've invested a ton of money in creating. But you need to do it because otherwise your messaging, the knowledge about your destination is not going to end up uh by default in the answers that those AI services are providing. Number two, for the people who actually do still end up at your destination uh website, those website visitors are so much more valuable now than they ever have been. And that is because those are the people who really actually do want to dig into things and do the research themselves and find out what the best things to do in the destination are. Timony's mentioned that one of the things that we do is measure media effectiveness, and destination websites is um one of one of the things that we measure. Um and what we have found is that when we take a look at how different uh sources, uh marketing sources, you know, you've got your CTV and your display and website, destination websites on that list, when we break down lift in visitor spending by different channels, consistently destination websites across the board have the either the highest or very close to the highest lift of any media channel these days. And I really think that's because the kind of people who are actually making it to a destination website now, there might be fewer of them, but the ones that are making it there are exactly who you want to be there. And those are the kinds of people who are going to really dig in and spend more time in your destination and do a wider variety of activities. So it is still important to make sure that your website has content uh for those people.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

And the median value, uh, the spend lift that we see across all the websites that we're measuring is about 40%. So what a great defense of the destination website in the age of AI. And we see that working best for those destinations that are optimizing their pages for AI. So it's a fantastic point for us and a fantastic point to defend that data storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

Um and by the way, everything that we just said does not only apply to destinations, it's gonna apply to hotels and restaurants and attractions too. Um, I spend a lot of time on uh AI-related subreddits, and it's really not uncommon for me to say that people found are planning a trip and they found a hotel that they're gonna be staying at, which was not showing up on the first or second page of Google Results. It was not showing up on the first, you know, in the first clump of results when they looked on Expedia or whatever. But they asked Claude, hey, uh what, you know, where should I stay uh on in my trip to such and such place? This is kind of what I'm looking for, and it surfaced this hotel for them that they weren't finding in some other way. And now they're they've booked that hotel. And if you're a hotel uh, you know, again, you need to make sure that your website is letting those those things uh understand your property so that they can help people surface your hotel when they're asking those questions.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:20

This was actually there's a there's a sustainability use case there too. And I know we're coming up on time, but when I was planning my Costa Rica trip, I used um Chat GPT, I also use Mind Trip, which is AI specifically um for travel and tourism planning. And it's actually embedded on a lot of destination websites. So that's another way is it can be summoned from within the destination website to enhance the planning. Um, and because I have a sustainability background, I look for properties that are locally owned because I want the capacity and I want the dollars to stay inside of that economy and create jobs. I am not interested in leakage back to the US or to, you know, to some multinational. Um so the first part of the trip, we found a place called Arena, Manoa, um, in the jungle that was locally owned. And it was absolutely wonderful. It was about a quarter of the price of some of the better known, uh better known properties that I think Americans like like to go to. And we had a phenomenal experience. We had absolutely go back. Um, I don't know that I would have been able to find that data very readily to understand what's locally owned versus not. It certainly was not in the first page of results. So AI surfaced that for me. Uh, I considered it, you know, and we we made the decision. There are a lot of German tourists there, and Germans love sustainability. So I was like, okay, I I know we're we're in the right place. Um, the the sense of hospitality and warmth was very different from the place we stayed that was um a part of a larger, you know, a larger portfolio company at the tail end of the trip, where it did feel like we're a number, like a fancy number, but just a number. It was very different. Um, and we were ready to go home at that point versus the first place that AI found for us that was locally owned. Like we never want to leave.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Wow. I'm just I'm I wanna talk to you guys forever, you know. And I I'm at fault as one of those people who doesn't go below my Google search anymore unless I really have to. And I'm not ignorant to know that it's probably not fully correct on what it's feeding me, but I'm just lazy. Um, and then to Jacob's point, I I went to the Visit Orlando site yesterday and used their built-in AI feature, which I loved. And I love, you know, I love that they're taking initiative there, and that their built-in AI did me nice for my next I'm going up next week. Um I I it's fascinating. I you know, the the my question, I guess we're towards our end, but my question is how do people find you and use you? Like, why would they not use it?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

I know it's like a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

I mean, it's like a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

I mean halfway through our questions, Peter. And like I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Are there a lot of competitors in your space? I mean, I it just doesn't seem like it to me. Like, how can someone not want to use you? Your company, that is.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

Yeah. Thank you. Um, if they care about creating those narratives with the community based on real visitor spending, come to us. We do this the fastest and in the most granular detail. Taking a step back when we think about the range of data sources we use to answer various questions and we kind of diagnose okay, for this question, this is the best source. We may use geolocation data for some points of interest and length of stay. We may use credit card transaction data, we may look at media data and performance overall TSA. We could be looking at at CoStar. We could be looking at air DNA for vacation rentals. So there are a number of players in that space. Everybody has their strengths and weaknesses. And we we know where we stand and what we're the very best at. And, you know, our when the market comes to us, we're gonna let them know why to buy and if it's a fit and qualify that. And sometimes we refer business out, you know, if the if we're we can't answer that question the best. Um, so I think that's something that we do well that we're very we're very consultative.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

I can't believe we uh we're at past the hour. And again, I'm still looking at a plethora of questions. So hopefully you guys would be okay coming back on and let me get through more of them in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Would love that. Absolutely. Make it an annual event.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

I want to say thank you for carving out some time in your day to spend some time with Peter and I. Um, I I had a great time hearing from you guys. You guys are uh a wealth of knowledge is a small way to compare you guys to. You guys are like a fire hose of information.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:09

Absolutely. Thank you both so much. And uh it's just fascinating to me. And this is our future, you know, for those you know that watch us, the data driving decisions and being able to communicate it is the future, not only of travel business, it's every business. And it just it's smarter decision making with less resources. That's that's where we're headed, um, and where we've been headed. After, you know, I I'm not using the COVID term anymore, but it's like after every crisis, we emerge with how can we do better, how can we look at things differently, how can we go up to different markets, and I appreciate you both being here a great deal. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:52

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

Thank you. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

All right, Peter, episode seven. And uh again, I'm looking at the deck over here where all my questions are, and I didn't even get just brainiacs.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:07

I might, you know, my head hurts. From I mean, they're just fascinating, fascinating, and so useful to our business. So so useful.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:15

I um I need to go through those questions again and get them ready for another episode. But um, I I had a great time. I'm uh glad that we were able to spend some time today on uh on a Wednesday. And when you're in Tampa, you need to attractions association. And you know what? I I need to make it over to your your side, uh, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

National HR and hospitality tomorrow. And it's like I rarely get super excited for things, but attractions and HR.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

I mean you gotta be bombarding me more about driving over. Like, why am I not harassing me? Good to see you, my friend. Good to see you, and uh, we'll see everybody next time. Thanks for uh tuning in.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

Yeah, thank you very much for checking in with us.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

Thank you for listening to Checking In the Hospitality and Tourism Podcast with your host, Dr. Peter Ritchie.