Checkin' In Podcast Ep.8 - Hospitality Education and Leadership with Dr. O

In this episode of Checkin’ In, Dr. Peter Ricci was joined by guest cohost Jessica Platts for a conversation with one of the most recognized voices in global hospitality leadership, Dr. Jeffrey O.

Dr. Jeffrey O is an internationally renowned CEO, leadership coach, educator, author, and President of the International Hospitality Institute, the leading advocacy and standards organization serving the global hospitality industry. He is also the founder of the International Hospitality Hall of Fame and has been recognized as one of the Top Ten Most Influential People in Hospitality worldwide.

This conversation explored leadership at the highest levels of hospitality, executive presence, mentorship, global industry trends, and what separates good organizations from truly exceptional ones. The episode also covered Dr. Jeffrey O’s START Model™, his experience advising major hospitality organizations, and his perspective on where the industry is headed next.

With decades of executive leadership experience and influence across the global hospitality community, this episode offers valuable insight for hospitality professionals, operators, educators, and aspiring leaders alike.

You can follow Peter Ricci at:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterriccihospitality/

You can follow Jeremy Nichols at:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremycnichols/

https://www.youtube.com/@JeremyNichols

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Hey, hey.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

A little surprise here.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Look who's here. So uh hello everyone. Welcome to our Checkin' In Hospitality Tourism podcast. And you'll see that Jess is out from behind the back today. So Jess always runs the back. Jeremy's at a wonderful family reunion. And uh we're gonna co-partner today with one of my favorite people in this industry. And of course, I'm a little happy because I have my McDonald's Diet Coke ready to go for my moving fuel. So uh today we're gonna talk lifelong learning, um, advocacy, and different things with the fabulous Dr. Jeffrey Obamagie. Um, it's he likes to go by Jeffrey O because it's easier, and I agree with him. It took me a while to remember how to say his last name. So, uh, and how's your world, Jess?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Uh, we've been busy, crazy. It's you know, we got two kids at home, so never mind work. We've got end of school activities. Uh, you all are based in sunshiny, Florida. I'm based in Connecticut, so we're just starting to get a little bit warmer weather.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Uh, and we're all ready to be here in the summer.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Very cool, very cool. So things are good. Um, if anyone watching or listening has heard of the latest um union agreement in New York City for room attendance, please direct message me because I'm trying to get my arms around if that's accurate. I saw one news highlight yesterday talking about labor and retention and getting people excited. So let's uh bring out Dr. Jeffrey O. Jeffrey is an amazing man, um, super intelligent, one of the brightest men I've ever met in my life, and just a genuinely lovely human. And he has an extensive background in the hotel side, very very luxury-oriented in his demeanor and what he achieves, but very grassroots local with helping the newest newbie into our industry. And he's currently president of the International Hospitality Institute, IHI, and we'll talk about that as well. But uh, let's bring him on the show. And there he is, smiling as always. We need like a trumpet, dun thun. Welcome to the show, fine sir.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Thank you, Dr. Richie, and thank you, Jessica. You're absolutely amazing. What uh introduction. I'm not sure I deserve all of those accolades, but uh you've made my Friday uh really, really good. You know, you you know you've got my day off to a brilliant start. I thank you for it, and thanks for inviting me. It's an honor to be here with you and Jessica. And uh just uh thank you.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Very nice. So uh so I guess you know, always just just tell our viewers a little bit about a couple sentences about your background. I sense an accent. Is that New York accent, New York City?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

I don't quite know where the accent is from accent is from. It's it's a mishmash of all kinds of influences. I've been in the US for I don't know, 30 years now. I've been I travel all over the place. My my parents are from Nigeria. I live in Nigeria, but I'm really a global citizen. I've lived and traveled in different countries, and uh I'm on the road quite a bit. And uh, you know, it's so I I don't know. I don't know, and uh yeah, I don't know what to make of it. I I live in Texas currently and I've been trying to get a Texas draw, as they call it. Well, I don't think I've been able to quite achieve that yet. So I'm still working on uh on that. So um yeah, you know, about me, I think uh I've done quite a few podcasts, and my my biggest challenge is always when folks say, tell me about yourself, right? It's just like opening the door to vanity, right? You begin to say, I, I, I, I, and I and I struggle with all the I's because it sounds so vainglorious and it sounds so um uh you know egotistical when we start talking about ourselves and all of that. So I like to be to be as brief as I can, and uh I tend to talk quite a bit, and I also have to watch that because that is vanity also when you when you talk so much, and that's uh a struggle I've got to uh to work on. Uh my background, I'm going to try to be as brief as I possibly can. I started in the industry many, many years ago. First hotel I ever worked at was uh a merit property. I worked at a front desk as a front desk agent, absolutely loved it. And then uh my supervisor back then, a kind gentleman, decided to promote me to night auditor, and I was going to be the night audit uh manager at some point. Not sure why he decided to do that. So I became a night audit manager. The problem was I cannot sleep in the daytime. My mind just does not allow me to shut off and go to sleep in the daytime. So you know how the story ends? I became a night auditor for all of less than two weeks. And uh, you know, I would go home, you know, in the daytime and you know, put a blanket over my head and close all the drapes and windows and try to sleep, and I just could not sleep. And eventually I went to my boss and I said, Sir, I really appreciate you giving me this opportunity, but uh, I'm going to have to take a step back. He said, Jeffrey, what do you mean? I said, Well, I can't sleep. I've not slept in two weeks. So, oh my goodness, you've not slept in two weeks. What's going on? I said, I can't seem to sleep in the daytime. So that was my really introduction to management in the hotel industry. But he was very kind, it allowed me to take a different role since I could not function as night audit manager. And then uh from there, I just sort of moved through the ranks. I became front desk agent, uh, front desk manager at another property, and then became, you know, AGM and then GM and on and on. And uh, you know, then went corporate and you know, divisional advice president, CEO, CEO, and all that stuff. Prior to transitioning, making it really hard pivot to what I'm doing now, which is education, advocacy, side of things. Very, very passionate about educating the young generation, the future leaders of hospitality. Hospitality is truly a passion for me. And I there's not a lot of things that I'm very good at, but I've always loved or cherished my ability to connect with people, to meet people and talk to them and learn about them. I really show genuine curiosity about them and learn about their lives and share a little bit about myself as well. I think there's something about hospitality that brings out the human in us that really makes us it sort of accentuates our better selves. Like this is who we are. You tell your story. I just found out within a few minutes of meeting jazz, you know, learn a few things about her, her background. She's got a master's degree, you know, she studied psychology. I didn't know any of those things. She worked in the casino industry for 20 years. She's got a beautiful family. This is what hospitality does. It brings us together, it lets us see each other. We're not strangers to each other. And I love that. So I always take every opportunity to evangelize about hospitality. It's an amazing industry. And for anyone who's not already in it, who's considering it, I say absolutely go for it. Go for it. You're going to love it. You're going to meet great people, you're going to go to great places, you're going to do great things. We need you. Give it a shot.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Wow. Yeah, I am that that's just inspiring. You know, and I have to unpack it a little bit because, you know, for me, now that I'm in full-time education versus industry for quite a while now, a lot of my students don't realize how fast and far you can go. And we're always kind of bashed a little bit that, hey, you must start at the front desk. Hey, start as a server, or start as a ballet. Well, that's just a speck in your career trajectory, but it makes you later in life identify with the room attendants and the front desk agents and the night auditors. And you know, the one of the things you said really hit for me. You learned right away you don't want to work nights. Well, a lot of my students they asked me, oh, should I go in hospitality? I don't know, I'm a night owl. Well, you're a night owl. We're one of the only businesses you can work at night. You can work in the casino business, you can work in the nightclub business, you can be a night auditor. So there's literally something for everyone in there. And we're all about the human connection. So, you know, um, of course, you're listening to a podcast about tourism and hospitality. We all love it. But there, I always encourage everyone, and like you do, Dr. O, is just think of us as a global citizenship type fun place to be in. It doesn't matter if you're into analytics or you want to do communications or you're a psych major. There's a job for you somewhere somehow. So, you know, as you moved along and now have been with the International Hospitality Institute, let's talk about IHI a little bit. Um, your key pillars, I I remember is global advocacy training and organizational standards. Is that that's right? Oh, got just remember your mission is those three pillars, right? Yeah. So talk a little bit first about what International Hospitality Institute is and what your how your pillars came about.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

I think we we found an opportunity to do something that we we think there's a lot of appetite for. It is something that's very much needed. We've got an industry that we're constantly bringing people in who may not have experience. When you hire the typical front as agent, a housekeeper, or you know, server, chances are they may not have experience in the industry. They may never have worked in any hotel, they may have a customer service background, or maybe they don't. We wanted to have a way to sort of structure training, have structured training for folks like that, people who are coming into the industry at entry-level positions, or even managers who are getting promoted into certain roles and they don't quite know what to expect, becoming a first-time restaurant manager, food and beverage manager, or even general manager. So the idea was to have a solid platform where people are able to get trained for specific roles in the industry, you know, maybe line level, maybe management level, maybe senior executive leadership roles. So that was the idea. Because if you've got your workforce that's well trained, then they're going to deliver excellent, they're going to be able to deliver better service to the customers or clients, you know, that they're dealing with. If they're poorly trained, it doesn't matter how much good intentions they've got. If the person doesn't know what to do, they don't know what to do. And the person they're dealing with is going to get frustrated. You can smile all you want, but if I want my omelet made and you don't know how to make it, you're smiling at me and it comes out all charred or burned, I'm not going to be very happy with you. Even if you're smiling at me while you're burning the omelet. So we want folks to be well trained. They need to be trained properly. And we also want to have folks who understand the standards. What are the expectations? When you're serving, when you're delivering service to people, what are the sort of guidelines that you should follow? What are the expectations? What do your customers expect of you? What is your mission? What is your responsibility to the people you interact with, you know, on a daily basis? And beyond your responsibility to the folks you interact with, beyond your customers, what about your fellow associates? Because you've got an obligation and responsibilities to your teamwork, you know, your fellow team members as well, not just the customer, but your team members as well. And then to your ownership group, the folks who own the hotel, own the restaurant, own the establishment, establishment in which you're operating. So just the same way that the owners have a responsibility to you, and your team members have an obligation, responsibility to you as well. So it's all sort of connected. So what are the standards? What should they build like? How should we abide? How should we deal with each other? So that's the idea to sort of structure this interaction, structure this guide rails and framework, and you know, have policies that sort of help us understand how to treat each other, how to treat our customers, you know, all of those things. So that's the basic idea. So you've got training, you've got recognition also, which is a big part of it. A lot of folks are working really hard in our industry and it's completely unrecognized. People don't know them, you know, and it's not only the folks who are leading out front, it's the folks in the back, the folks in the kitchen, the folks in, you know, the housekeeping staff members, the people doing all the you know manual, physical work who were never seen. We want to be able to recognize those folks and share their stories and spotlight them and let the world know that it exists as well. So our mission is just not its recognition, it's training, and it's advocates, all of those things, they all connected. So we're advocating to have a workforce that's treated better than it has been in the past, right? I mean, Peter, I know you're a big uh a big uh champion for that. You've done a lot of work in that area, advocating for you know higher wages, advocating for more balanced labor practices that take into account not only the ownership groups, but also the folks who are providing the service, right? You've done a lot of work in that area. We're very focused on that. You know, we've got the hospitality code of ethics, which talks about how we should treat how employers should treat employees, how employees should treat each other. All of these things are super important, and we think folks need to talk more about them. You've got organizations like AHLA, you know, who are doing good great work in that area, trying to motivate, inspire employers to realize that we need to do, we need to sort of balance things a little bit better when it comes to managing the margins and also making sure that employee satisfaction is taken into account. All of that is important.

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Wow. And you know, uh that leads me to my similar question. There's a lot of organizations, there are a lot of organizations in this space. So you've got American Hotel Lodging doing their training. There's Educational Institute now is affiliated also with National Restaurant Association or purchased by them. So you've got restaurant standards, you've got hotel standards. I'm sure MSC has its own cruise line standards, and JetBlue has their own in-flight standards. So you work more on the generic platform, I would think, and fit alongside the AHLAs and all? Or are you more global? Like how do you fit in that space?

SPEAKER_02 14:51

We are more global, you know, we're more global. We've got representation and uh participation and involvement in different countries across the globe. So it's not just the US. The US is a huge part of it, clearly, but we've got folks who are really involved who are outside of the US. So our look is a global look. It's not just uh looking at the US, sort of like a panoptic look. You know, we're looking at the entire frame, not just a piece of it. So we're looking at different ways that we can help make our industry better. And we're not doing it alone. We've got a lot of people doing freelance work, we've got a lot of people doing all kinds of things to support us. And it's not only IHI itself, we've got the International Hospitality Hall of Fame, which we set up a couple of years ago to recognize leaders who've done so much for the industry. That's a way to recognize folks as well. We have the Education Foundation, which gives our scholarships to folks who want to grow in the industry. That's another way to promote training. So it's like a multi-pronged approach to impacting our industry positively because we feel so deeply, we feel so strongly about this. And, you know, you asked me, Pete, in one of our conversations recently, why I've not been as uh uh upfront, if you will, I've not been as uh visible in terms of podcasts and all of that. And I mentioned that I wanted to take a step back and sort of operate behind the scenes, right? Because there are lots of people doing great work, and quite often, folks like me overshadow the folks who are actually doing harder work. What I do is important. There are folks who are doing much more important work than I am doing. And the danger for folks like me is that we get carried away. We begin to think that we're important. We begin to think that we're a bit more special than other people. It's like the line, you know, animal farm, all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. We begin to think that maybe our work is a bit more important than the work of other people. But I say to you, my work is not nearly as important as the work of the person who's making the omelet, who's checking people in, cleaning the rooms, you know, who's cutting the grass, who's checking the AC units. They're the ones who deserve the spotlight. So I want to operate behind the scenes as much as I can to showcase those folks, to tell their stories, to make sure that the spotlight is on them squarely and not as much on folks like me, you know, who we're doing our bit, but our bit is not quite as important or as uh as uh meaningful as what a lot of other folks are doing. And it's very easy to Pete and Jessica to begin to get carried away when you do the kind of things that I do and my organization does. You know, you it's easy to begin to think that you are really uh, I don't know. It's very easy to get, I don't want to seem arrogant, that's not quite the word, and I don't want to say hubris, but it's very easy to get an inflated sense of self. And that's what social media does to you. You know, you begin to think that you're that important. I never want to get to the point where I begin to look at how you know, begin to see myself, you know, as something as some put myself on the pedestal. I don't want to be that. So we we want to promote the industry, not promote ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

This is my long and tortuous way of explaining that. We want to promote the industry and not promote the industry.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

So well said, Dr. O. Like just a true hospitalian, right? Like, I don't want the focus on me. I want you to focus on the chef. I want you to focus on the house person who has schlepped all of these tables and chairs and flipped this room five times. And those people might not have had a day off in the last seven days. Those are the people that need the recognition, not me. I'm bringing the recognition up, right? And like elevating it. So uh just so well. Uh I'm so happy to be here. Thank you both.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

I tell you, hospitality has done so much for me. I don't know if folks know the story, but when I came into the US many years ago, I was homeless for a period of time. And folks don't, I you know, I I've shared this story to a few folks, and completely homeless on the streets of DC, had no place to go. Uh, I was living in a park and uh slept on a park bench with a lot of folks who were similarly uh unhoused. And uh, you know, it was a it was a tough experience, right? And and I and I remember just sleeping on a park bench, looking at the sky, thinking there has to be a way out for me. There has to be a way that I'm going to get my foot, my feet on the ground in this amazing country. There has to be a way for me. This can certainly cannot be my story. There has to be more for me. There has to be more for me. And my first job, like I mentioned to you, was someone taking the chance on me and letting me work at the front desk. And before I even got that job, I had to go shower and get myself dressed in the only outfit I had in a public place where I could go to to do that, to learn, to get the job. And the person gave me a chance. And I would never forget that. So hospitality rescued me from a life on the margins, from a life of being indigent, from a life of being essentially having nothing, being broke, not even knowing where my next mail was going to come from. And that's how my career started. And thanks to this beautiful industry that we work in, I was able to raise a family, build a career, meet a lot of wonderful people. I'm here talking to the two of you. So there's so much that I'm grateful for that. I could never take for granted what the industry has done for me. And uh that's what hospitality allows us to do, to make these connections, to it brings out the best in us. We get to smile at it, smile at each other, we get to know each other's names. I mean, how many industries do you know of Pete and Jess, where you are required to know the name of the other person, where you're required to smile at them, smile at them within 20 feet? Well you're required to shake their hands and say, Hey, Mr. Jones, uh, you know, my name is Pete. Uh Mr. Slick, my name is Jessica. What other industry requires that for you to put your name tag on your name and boldly say, This is who I am? I am Jessica. This is me. I am Peter. This is me. How many industries require that? You know, it brings out the very best of the best in us and allows us to showcase the best in us in dealing with other people. You're not going to find an industry that does that. You're not going to, I challenge anyone to point out any other industry that does that. So hospitality rescued me in so many ways and allowed me to become who I am today. I'm eternally grateful and I always will be.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

It's it's so inspiring to hear you. And it's, you know, this is our industry. And it doesn't matter if you come out of school with your PhD, you never went to school, you stopped at sixth grade. We will find a place for you and give you a livelihood and have a career path. You know, like along the lines of lifelong education, um, we're having a very difficult time in this industry keeping people engaged, keeping them learning. Our turnover has always remained high. And a lot of it is positive turnover because they move up. I always have to bring that up because it sounds worse than it really is. But we do have turnover because you are dealing with people. People get on each other's nerves. The guests are not always delightful. I mean, those are some of our things. But um, you know, what are your thoughts? Like for me, I always struggle. I'm a lifelong learner because I enjoy it. I did your IHI general manager's course. I'm not a GM anymore, but I want to keep learning, right? So I never know what I'm missing. And like Jess was in the casino space for 20 years. I was in the hotel space for a good decade. Those were our spaces. And I want to be more broad. I want to know what it's like to work for a tour operator. Or what is it like to work in in, you know, in in I don't know, Nambia? What is it, what, or what is it like to work in Guyana right now, which is really developing tourism? And I I you know, I I struggle. So a couple of things there. Like, how do you help people explore in lifelong learning? And how does what you do at IHI thus far seem to help keep people in the business in your in your own experience, like the people you've seen.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

I love what you said about your intellectual curiosity, your desire to keep learning. I think that's amazing. I read a story yesterday about Billy Jin King, the tennis grade who just got a bachelor's degree at 84 years old. Oh, I found that to be completely remarkable. I read about a lady at 72 years old who became a medical doctor. She always wanted to become a doctor. She always pushed it, never quite got to it. And uh at 72 years old, she got her grad medical degree. I am a lifelong learner, just like you. Uh, you know, Pete, I got my second doctorate uh just earlier this year from Oklahoma State University. I love to learn. My wife is sick of all my uh, you know, the time I spend. It's like, how many degrees do you need? And uh, I love to learn, and I and I I just do. And I've never seen a degree program that I was not interested in. I always think to myself, oh, that sounds exciting. I should check that out. So, but my time on Earth is finite, so I don't have enough time to get as many degrees as I would love to get because I love to learn. And uh, but you know, so regarding IHI's impact on uh lifelong learning, what we're doing is really impacting a lot of folks positively. We have people who are coming into the industry or already in the industry who are surprised by how much they still need to learn. There's always something that we don't know, there's always something we can learn. I said to you that to leave is to learn, right? I mean, if you're alive, you have to be learning. So we we our courses are really, they're not academic in the sense that they're not teaching, teaching theory only, right? They're actually teaching you real-world best practices, how to do stuff, how stuff works. I mean, you're actually learning. So when you take the certified hotel management, uh manager course, you're going to learn how to run a hotel. You're going to learn how to, you know, make budgets, you know, run hotel checkbooks, you know, do payroll, you know, schedule staff members, you know, manage expenses, do cost control. You're going to learn all of the skills that you need to learn. You're not just learning the theory of hotels. You're learning real practical information that's going to help you be better at what you do. And uh we've got courses that happen to be our best-selling courses. The CHGM is one of them. The CFBM, Certified Uh, Food and Bevery Manager is another one. We've got many of them. People tell us we really enjoy taking our class. I learned so much from it, and I'm going to come back with a refresher. How long can I have access to your platform so I can go back and get a refresher? So I love hearing all of those things. And we're constantly updating our programs. They're not still courses. So we go in and update them to make them more relevant to today's uh today's today's industry. So I think it's really important. Training is such an important pillar of our of what we do. If you're not training people, then what else? I mean, what are we doing? You have to train people. And so it's critically important. We're very focused on it. And we've got folks all over the planet who come in and take our courses. And the good thing is, our courses are all online, so you don't have to be physically resident in the US to take them. You could take them from anywhere. And uh, so it's really we're very excited about it. And it's good to know that folks are benefiting from them. And we're going to keep putting out more courses. We've got quite a few of them out already. It's actually a long, uh, an extensive catalogue of courses, and we're going to keep putting out more and more courses just to uh, you know, you know, enhance learning for lots of folks.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

That's I that's excellent. I have no desire to look for a second doctorate. I barely can go through the first. You know, what's funny is um I always put this out there, and a lot of people say, How can you say this? I'm like, you don't need a degree in this industry, it's about lifelong learning. You know, now having said that, I have a student right now. Um, I hope she's not watching because I won't mention her name, but she's in her 60s, and she just retired from a major casino company and is about 95% along the way to her bachelor's. So she came into the bachelor's at about 60, and she was inspired during the pandemic because of a certificate she took with us, and her daughter was studying hospitality at University Central Florida Rosen. So she said, I want to finish my bachelor's. So when she retired, I'm like, Oh, I guess you're gonna drop. No way, I'm four classes. So it's about learning. So for the viewers, it's learning. It's uh, you know, I find I have found myself we're so busy that we get siloed. So I have to force myself to take a class outside of a hotel or to to learn what the theme park industry is about, or oh my god, there's a bungee jumping tour company. What do they do? I mean, so you can we have so much to offer that it's very easy to get stuck in your segment, and so lifelong learning kind of helps you break out of that, and I think online educational quality is so exceptional now that the old stigmas of it's too easy, it's watered down, that's long past, long past. So you can do it in person, you can do it hybrid, you can do it fully online, but it permits someone who is 5,000 miles away from your office to start to be with you, like just there in Connecticut, you're in Dallas, I'm here in South Florida. We're all like in the same room together having a conversation. That some of the technology aspects of the modern day are really still able to bring us together, other you know, so we're still a human business, so it's great to hear that. I know you spend a lot of time on um, and IHI is well known for recognizing individuals in different categories and doing it differently than American Society of Travel Advisors or National Restaurants. So, how did IHI come up with kind of the different recognition areas? And what's your process to recognize and how do you choose? Because you're global, it seems so difficult to me.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Yes. Excellent. Uh that's an excellent question. You know, you've got um, I love how you touched on that recognition piece. You know, uh you also mentioned IHI's pillars I showed a while ago. I think if I had to use some sort of an acronym for what we do, it would be arts, which would be advocacy, recognition, training, and standards. I think that really encapsulates all that we do. Uh so regarding your question recognition, we look at folks who are doing things that advance the industry. This is not just a magazine that uh we've got many awards, right? We've got the Global Hospitality Magazine, which we used to recognize a lot of folks. We've got multiple award categories, but we're not just looking to recognize people just to recognize them. We want people who are doing meaningful work, who are doing things that are advancing the industry, who are promoting those engaging conversations, who are sharing insights, who have top leadership, you know, going on, people who are actually doing things. I don't want to say moving the needle because that sounds uh hopelessly cliche, but people who are really advancing the cost of hospitality, we look at all of that. I've made quite a few friends, you know, by being involved at IHI because you've got folks who say, oh, thanks, uh, you know, you your your you know, your Global Hospitality Magazine featured me, you know. Thanks for the feature, thanks for the article and all of that. And I've also made a few, you know, I don't want to say uh I don't want to use the word enemies, but that's not that's not quite accurate. But folks who are less passionate about what we do, the reason being they believe they ought to be featured in the Global Hospitality Magazine, they believe they ought to win an award and they have an ad. And they, you know, send me messages through LinkedIn. When am I going to get an award? When am I going to get featured? And it's very difficult to say to them, you know, you're not going to be featured just because you're my friend or my acquaintance. You're not going to get featured just because, you know, you're doing your day job. You know, you have to be doing something as meaningful, as advancing the industry. And I so these are difficult conversations to have with people because I can't tell them that, right? I can't really say that to them without offending them. And I just I just pray that uh you know maybe they'll you know sort of look at things a little bit differently. So so that's what happens. We want to keep recognizing and celebrating people who are doing great things. And I tell you, Dr. Richie, you you know, you you come to mind, you know, you're a preeminent, you know, uh leader in terms of you know driving that dialogue, you know, you're doing things that are very dear to our hearts at IHI because you are constantly looking for ways to improve the industry. You know, you you're a master networker, you're connected to just about everyone, and you're promoting those conversations. You're constantly talking about how can we make our industry better. And that for us is music, you know, it's music. You know, you you're advocating for the folks, the the little guys and girls to use that term, who don't really have a voice, who don't get to get the ear of the CEO, and you're doing that very, very effectively, and you're doing it very humbly.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

And you can tell my face is red. I just you are blushing. I love it. It's not meant in anything. And the and the funny part is everybody says to me, You're so well connected. I didn't even have a LinkedIn account before the pandemic. I they told me you need one because people are asking how to reach you for your certificate. I mean, it shouldn't be because you want to read nobody should reach out to you and say, When am I going to be on your cover? That's you got to make the world a better place on your own, my friend. That I you're you're a little too sweet and nice in your response to that. I would be like, Well, you haven't, what have you done for me lately? You know, and I'm all about it because, you know, to your point, I was a uh a kid growing up in a family that nobody else had gone to college. My dad was on medical disability, and hospitality found me and saved me and made me successful. So we have superstars, whether they're in the airline business, in the cruise business, in the attractions business, we are fun. And I don't care if your majors in sophisticated, you know, data analysis to the data, there's a job for you. You can be an attorney, you can do whatever you want. There's a job for you in our business. So thank you for that. That's not you know why I do it, but it's just fun. Um, and to say that I started at 14 and I'm still loving it now, I want that message to get out to people. So I applaud you for doing that, but that's a lot of work if you've got to look for homegrown people. And you know, you don't, I'm sure you don't have a the largest team that you'd like to have, you know. Um, but yeah, we need to, and I have to say this because you said it so nicely before. We, as the general managers, are not giving you your stay experience, it's our associates that are. They are the experience. I saw something in on um LinkedIn this week or on on Insta where a pilot got out of the cockpit on Southwest, went into the terminal, bought pizza for the all the passengers, and then gave it out himself because he knew they were on uh like a ground stop at Washington, and he he was the Southwest either pilot or co-pilot. He went and did it himself. That's the Southwest that I remember from Herb Keller days. That's how they wanted the whole culture to be, and that's what we're about in this business.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

I love that. One of my favorite quotes is by uh Baroque Spinoza, who said uh, every person has a mission or a mandate to rescue the world. Every person has a mission, so we don't have to save everyone, we don't have to change every situation that's negative. We may not have the ability to do that, but we can impact the world one person at a time. And what that pilot did was his own way of saving the world, you know, it was his own way of doing something that advanced, that made people feel good, that added value to people's lives. And that's what it's about. You know, little acts of kindness, random acts of kindness, doing things that make people feel good because you don't know what kind of a day they're having. You know, it's so important. I worked in a hotel where a lady came downstairs to my front office manager and was tearful because the front office manager on Valentine's Day, I instructed my uh my front office team and housekeepers, and we put roses by people's uh, you know, nice hands on Valentine's Day. And this lady came downstairs and said to the front office manager, and no one ever gave me a rose. And she was tearful. And you know, little things, you know, things that you do to enhance people's lives. And that's what hospitality gives us that opportunity to touch people's lives in a way that's just remarkable, that's memorable, that sticks with them for the rest of their lives. You know, it's just, I love that. So what IHI does makes me feel really, really good because we recognize folks all over the world. It's not just the US. We've got folks who recognize and they can't believe it. You know, someone from Ukraine or Czechoslovakia or, you know, Liberia, and oh my God, how do you guys know about me? How do you guys know about my work? We love those kinds of stories. And uh, so it's all over, it's global. It takes a lot of work. We've got volunteers, we've got folks who are very dedicated to the cause, who who really care deeply about this stuff. And they're the ones doing a lot of the work. And uh it's it's important. We think it's it's you know, it makes people feel good, and we love that. And there are people who say to me, Wow, you celebrate people all the time. I mean, do you guys charge for any of this? How do you make money from this? And I always surprise, well, I surprise some of them with my answer when I say, we do not charge. It's not a pay-to-play deal. We don't charge to feature anyone for anything. You're never going to find someone who says, Oh, they charge me X amount of money to put me in their magazine. All of those costs are born in-house. We pay for it, we spend the money, we fund it. We don't, we're not asking anyone for donations, we're not asking anyone to pay. We do all of that. We've always done it, and we're going to keep doing it because for us, it's minimum for work.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

Wow, that's fantastic. Jess, before we go to the next question, do we have any questions from viewers?

SPEAKER_00 38:12

We did. So we had a comment, and I'm we're gonna backtrack a little bit, but I I want to pull it up because I thought it was good. Um, so while a degree wouldn't be necessary a necessity, right, which we were just saying, wouldn't it be a preference for higher organizational positions? And and so we'll open it up to all of us here at the floor.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

Um my say is yes because it exposes you more to um deadlines, projects, communicating with others from all different placers, and it's kind of a mini version of developing your leadership talents. You know, no bachelor's degree is going to make you an expert in anything. Even I was a sociology major, I couldn't have gone from right to teach a sociology course, but it gives you a basic foundation, but yet it's not a requirement. And you'll see some of the major companies, because of retention issues, have removed their requirements for bachelor's degrees. Delta Airlines was one of the first. Um, but is it preferable? Absolutely, because what I say is in just you can you I'll let you talk about the recruiting space. All things considered, you have four applicants for the same job that have all gone through the mega talent acquisition algorithms. And then um, I'm I'm not sure if I'm gonna say it right, Aiden or Eden. Um you the one with the bachelor's or the MBA, and all other things considered, you're gonna stand out on my desk a little bit, you know. Jess, how about you? And then we'll give Dr. O.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yeah, I mean it's it's always interesting, right? So um I think there are specific positions that, yeah, you you're gonna need an advanced degree. You might need an MBA, like you just said, Dr. Richie, or you might need uh a certificate in analytics or something completely different, right? When I started in the casino industry, there really wasn't an analyst team. Like, yeah, we were running crunching, the team was crunching numbers in the background. It's not what it exists to this day. The data mining and the ability to look at things, right? That's where, you know, from an IT, a technology, an AI perspective. Um, but I think that it's the continuous learning that happens afterwards, right? I can have my piece of paper, I can hang my piece of paper somewhere on my wall. It can be a really great achievement for me. But if I close my mind off and I'm like, I'm not gonna learn anything else, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna take it as it comes and I'm not gonna try to be better or try to help my team more or try to, I mean, then what are we all doing here? Right. So the degree is not necessary, but is it preferred? Sure. You're gonna stand out from a uh a candidate perspective of for comparing all of that together. Um, but yeah, Dr. O, you go on this one too. I want to hear your opinion.

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Yeah, I'm going to echo what you and uh Dr. Rich just said. I think it's you're absolutely correct. It's it's it's not necessary for many roles, but it's certainly preferable. It's good to have. There are roles that will require that you've got a degree. I mean, if you're going to apply to the a control in a hotel, maybe as an accountant, or you want you aspire to become a corporate controller, the company very well may require that you have a degree. Unless you've got significant work experience in the field, if you learn all of hotel uh accounting, they may say to you, you know what, we want someone who's got a degree, right? So you know, in many cases, which is the beauty of our industry, you don't have to have a degree. But I said to you, going forward in the age of AI, I think it's it's kind of very helpful to have a degree because that's where we're headed now. I mean, I just think it makes sense to to uh to post you that if you're able to. Now, there are folks, not everyone has an interest in going to college, right? Now, we have to keep that in mind. I think at times, for some of us who were very blessed to go to college, uh, you know, it's very easy to say, you know, everyone needs to go to college, to take a prescriptive type approach when in reality, not everyone has an interest. I met someone not too long ago, actually a family member, who has no interest in going to college. They just have no interest. They want to learn a trait, and and you know, and that's perfectly grand. There's nothing wrong with that. So we need to be mindful of that too, right? So, but I say to anyone who aspires to go, you know, you know, climb the ladder in the hospitality industry, if you're able to, consider getting a degree. If you're not able to, certainly understood, but if you're able to, consider you know getting one.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

And you don't need to do it when you're um, you know, a certain age. You can come at any time. The point that Jess made is something I struggle with because when I graduated, even though I've been accepted to law school, which I wound up not liking, I knew I was continuing. What a lot of our students today is they see the bachelor's as the end all be all. That's just the beginning. Now you do a certain you maybe your degrees in um marketing, then you do a certificate in hospitality because you wound up working for Marriott. And then, oh, you have an opportunity to go into analytics, so your next certificate is in data analysis. You really like it, you do an MBA in analytics, and that's how it goes. It's not the end point, which a lot of us were trained to think. Oh, I have my degree now, I put it on the wall, and you owe me X more dollars or this and that. That's just the journey, it's just a starting point. So, to Dr. O's in you know, mission, lifelong learning is what our world is all about, and the world changes so quickly that if you're not lifelong learning. Long learning, you're immediately left in the dust. Whether you have a bachelor's, a PhD, or two PhDs, it doesn't matter. So I want to ask you a question. Um, what do you think are the most impactful shifts that we'll have in the next five years in our business? I mean, you know, you mention AI, ACI comes up in every conversation, every webinar, every networker. So I know that's going to be top of mind. But coming off all of our crises, 9-11, SAR, Zika, 2008, the horrible pandemic, what do you see as our trends for the next five years?

SPEAKER_02 44:37

You mentioned AI. I think AI is the biggest one. I think it's going to impact you know the landscape quite a bit. It's going to be really monumental in terms of its impact, and there's no understating it. It's going to change life as we know it. I mean, it really well. For you're going to have a lot of jobs that are affected. You know, I hate to use the term blue collar and white-collar, but you're going to have a lot of white-collar jobs that will be uh impacted. I think our industry is going to, you know, you know, go through some seismic shifts. I mean, if you look at, for instance, how we handle accounting in a lot of hotels, AI really streamlines the process. It changes the entire process, right? The way we handle preventive maintenance, you know, tracking, you know, going away from using logs and manual tracking mechanisms to systems. I mean, it's even the guest interaction piece, you know, the way you're going to, AI continues to allow us to refine that and improve it. You've got countries that now have like, you know, using robots like China for, you know, check-ins and all of that. So a lot is going to change whether we like it or not. So we have to find a way to adapt. Our industry has always been very good at adapting in many ways, and we just have to keep adapting. So that would be my number one. I think the number two item I think that, you know, to look at within the next five years would be changing consumer expectations. You know, I think you're going to have a traveler that's more savvy, you know, that's more discerning, that's more perceptive, that's who's going to say to you, no, no, no, I don't want this, I want that. I didn't ask for this, I asked for that. Because now you can use Chat GPT and agentic AI to book travel, you know, to do all kinds of things. It's not true, uh, you know, a thousand hotels and find the one that's tailored specifically for Jessica or for Peter. You're you're going to you're able to do that. And with this refined, you know, scapel type, you know, targeted, you know, searches or customization, welcome changing consumer expectations. You're going to have the consumer who wants to, before they check in, they want the room to be at a certain temp. You know, I when I check in, I like my temperature, my AC at 68 degrees. You guys had it at 72 degrees. What happened? I've been here before, and I always like it at 68. You know, so you're going to find people expecting different things. I always like my omelet garnish with bezel. But I came in this time, it was oregano, you know, what happened to the bezel, you know. So people are getting more savvy. Technology is making everyone, it's it's it's improving our agencies, making us smarter, right, in terms of our choices. So it allows us to make smarter choices. And when we're making those smarter choices, the people who are implementing those services are going to be the ones who will be, the pressure is going to be on them to deliver. You know, it can't just be business as usual. Now it has to be elevated. So they're going to have to, to speak proverbially, they're going to have to raise their gain because technology is allowing us as consumers to raise our gain. So to expect more, to demand more, which means that people who are providing the services have to provide more. So I think that will be another challenge in looking at. And the third item I can think of is uh how folks who are in the trade roles, people who are doing manual things, I think in the next five years or so, their role is going to get more important. I tell you this: folks like housekeepers in markets that are not able to use AI for cleaning, right? Robots for cleaning, folks like maintenance staff, engineering staff who go up on the roof to inspect the air handler unit and take it apart and change the filters and do all of those things. People who are doing their manual stuff, you know, people who are in the kitchen, you know, again, making the omelet, you know, preparing the dinner, the the the you know, the the meals for 50 people, 150 people, their roles are suddenly going to get more focus and more attention because some things AI can't do. AI is going to do a lot of things, but there are some things that AI cannot do. Um people who are in roles that AI cannot perform their functions, they're going to find that all of a sudden their jobs are considered to be more premium than they used to be.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

Oh, I love that. You know, and it kind of ties into my next question because I was going to ask you what leadership qualities do you think people need? And you you've hit one right in every comment is adaptability right off the bat. What other qualities do you think the future leaders need?

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Curiosity. Curiosity. I think when we're curious, we learn about people, uh, customers, our guests, you know, our fellow associates. When we're curious, we ask the right questions. When we're curious, we expand our horizons when we're curious. It's really, really important. Right next to that is the ability to listen. And I struggle personally with this for so many years. I've always considered myself to be an empathetic person. But my biggest challenge is like I didn't always know when to shut up. And uh, my wife had to, you know, read me in and really do some work on me, right? And just being able to listen, you know, because quite often we've got so much we want to say, we want to get it out. We want to get it out, we're eager to get it out. But in getting out what we're trying to get out, we're not giving other people allowance or the room to get out what they need to get out to. So the ability to listen is an ability to step aside, you know, give up the mic and let someone else speak. And uh I'm still working on it, I'm still in a work in progress. There are days I do well, there are days I don't do so well. And after this podcast, I'm going to go score myself and see how well I did. And I probably would score myself in five or four. Yeah, that wasn't your best effort. You talk too much. But we have to constantly be curious and we have to be able to listen as leaders. If we can do that, we stand a really good chance. And I'll add one more item to that list, and that's actually two more items. Empathy, super important, being able to walk in the other person's shoes. We struggle with that quite often as human beings, being able to walk in their shoes and then vulnerability. You know, I think we live in a society quite often where we don't want to be vulnerable. You know, we we we keep everything buttoned up. We're like, I can't say that. That's going to make me look weak. That's going to make me look soft. That's going to make me look like I'm not successful. But we can disarm people by being vulnerable. Just tell your story. You're a human being, you know, you're a human being, you know, tell your story. It doesn't make any difference. We talked about degrees recently. My wife said to me, you know, Jeffrey, you always talk about vanity and all of that, you know, how you know you know into that and all of that. But here you are getting all the degrees. And uh, what is that about? And I talked about what she said for a minute, and I say, you know, honey, you know, you're actually right. Because I keep telling people that I am a lifelong learner and I'm going to school because I want to keep learning and learning and learning. But underlying that premise is the idea that you can only learn through universities, and that's a false premise. My wife, you know, because if I if I if my goal is just to learn, I don't have to get another degree. I've got a library full of books that I could not possibly read in my lifetime. I've got so many books. My wife buys shoes and I buy books. I've got a ton of them. If I want to learn Jessica and Peter, I could go read all these books. I could go read all these books. Why do I have to get another degree? So, which took me to, it made me understand that what my wife was pointing out was absolutely true. A part of me is interesting in learning, maybe 40%, maybe 50%, but probably half of me is vanity. It's like look at me, I got another degree. So I have to watch that too, right? I mean, because I'm a human being and I'm struggling with my vanity. I really am. And like, why do I need these degrees? Obviously, I'm trying to tell people that I am a smart guy. It must be, right? Because why else am I getting there? Why am I not reading all the books I've got? So we constantly have to have these conversations with ourselves when we dig deep and do the work and hold ourselves accountable. And even if we don't like what we see, we have to have these conversations with ourselves. And as leaders, we have to learn to be vulnerable with ourselves and with the people around us. And I think it's just a part of our humanity.

SPEAKER_03 53:20

Wow. Adaptable, vulnerable, empathy, pittable. The one I hear a lot too lately is resilience because I was gonna say resiliency. And I hope to have a guest who's a specialist in resilience. Because if I were back in the trenches running an airline or a hotel group or a cruise, I would really focus on resiliency because it's so easy right now to get frustrated with a bad day or this or that, and you just I'm out, I'm out. I hear it all the time. I'm three quarters away to my degree, my girlfriend broke up, I'm out. Why don't you can't be out? You have to have some sort of thick skin. So, I mean, the resiliency comes up a lot lately, and I don't quite know why. The nimbleness and adaptability, I think we've always done well at that. Empathy, I think we've always done it well. Vulnerability, no, and self-awareness, like you said, Jeffrey, no. We probably have not done well as leaders. Um, and that's those are all super important. Well, I know I know we have time for like one more and then your closing thoughts, but if you could deliver one message to the hospitality workers out there, what is your you know, whether they're a high school student in a pro start culinary program or they're a CEO, what's your one message that you like to part to the world?

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Always believe in yourself, even if no one else does. Always believe in yourself, even when no one else does.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Love it, love it. And I guess I guess we should close and ask you. Um, oh, thank you, Dana. I think you do you should um close with what's your most rewarding part of IHI journey so far? Uh it sounds like you have a ton of them, but what really stands out is, you know, wow, I'm so glad I did this because I think he's just saying, you know, the large number of people who who say, thank you for recognizing me, thank you for letting my voice be heard, thank you for sharing my story.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

That's all. You know, our lives are not easy. Life is no, it's not easy. Every day we deal with all kinds of struggles, financial struggles, family struggles, you know, issues happening, micro issues and micro issues. Um, to be able to put a smile on someone's face just by recognizing them, by saying thank you, thank you, Jessica, thank you, Peter. You know, your work counts. You count, you're doing something noble. Just being able to tell them that and see them bask in it and see them appreciate that it means a lot. You know, you don't have to save the whole world, but you can save one person. You don't have to rescue the whole world, but you can rescue one person. You may not be able to help everyone, but you can help one person. Just smile at someone, inquire about how their day is going. Uh, give them a positive comment. You know, I love that shirt, I love that tie, you know, I love that hairstyle. Oh, I love your smile, anything. You know, you add value to their lives. It's not very difficult to do. And we have to keep looking for opportunities to do that for each other because life is hard, and we have to make it better for each other. It's our obligation.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

Wow, you're so inspirational. I uh right.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

Seriously. So seriously. But on that note, I have one more, I have one more. This is a longer comment, but I think there's a there is a good question here. So before we wrap up, I really I did want to show this one. Um, my first time, and I think this podcast is awesome and truly insightful. I'm a lay cordon blue grad. I think high education is vital. Moved to Morocco from Miami, started hospitality firm. What recommendations do you have for people or advice on being an outsider trying to humble themselves in a brand new market or country to be successful to implement the program? It's a hard one, right?

SPEAKER_04 57:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

I I love I love your approach. I love that question. I think start by, I can't even say start because you're already humble. I you know, I love how you framed that question. Remain humble. Very, very important. When we're humble, we learn. When we're humble, we meet people who help elevate us. So stay humble, number one. And number two, don't see yourself as an outsider. You're a citizen of the world, you're a global citizen. It doesn't matter where you're from. Wherever you are, that's your home. That's where you're meant to be. It doesn't matter what your accent is, it doesn't matter how you speak, it doesn't matter the color of your skin. Wherever you are, it's where you're meant to be. That's your home. You're not an outsider, you're a child of God. And wherever you are, that's your home. So don't see yourself as an outsider and be humble. That's it, that's a great place to start. And then Pete and I and Jessica spoke about this. Stay curious. That's going to allow you to learn the language, that's going to allow you to learn the culture, that's going to allow you to learn the people. And that will allow you to grow in that profession.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Agreed. And you, you know, you you have an empathy, empathy style already, the way you phrase things. So the more friends that you bond with there and show the love of their culture, and that is your home, the more people will welcome you in. It's full circle. And again, that's hospitality and action. That's the most fabulous part of this business is you have friends from all over the world, and you can look at things through very varied optics, versing uh versus I only live in Miami and I'm Miami centric, and that's all I'm gonna be, or Connecticut, or Dallas, or whatever, you know. Well, Dr. O, it's always a pleasure. Uh just had our running trailer there. If you would like to learn more about International Hospitality Institute, just go to uh www. international hospitality institute.com. And uh we thank you so much for joining us. And to our viewers, uh, we hope to do another podcast on ahead, maybe on resilience. We want to do one on casinos. We've got so many ideas coming. Uh, labor of love.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Dr. O. Thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 59:40

I appreciate that very much. Thanks for being patient listening to me.

SPEAKER_03 59:43

I can go on and on uh quite awesome. You scored very well, so don't grade yourself hard. You're our only guest, she should be able to talk the whole show. So you're fine. Tell your wife.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

Thanks for endowing me. Good travels, Dr. L. Thanks, Dr. Richie. I appreciate you very much.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

Bye. Awesome, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

And don't he's just he's just amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:08

Yeah, and uh we're we'll give you some uh departing music, and I hope you guys will join us next month. He's just so inspirational, you know. We're very picky about how we try to find guests, source guests, and he's just one of a kind, amazing human. I mean, every time I hear him, um, he's invited me to some academic meetings that they have for IHI, and he'll bring voices from different schools from 10 different countries with all different viewpoints, but we're all human having a great time and learning that we all have similar challenges in different ways, and it's what our industry is. So, Jess, I'm glad you were the co-host today.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

You guys listen, it was a good try, it was a good run. I can't complain. I didn't change the camera angles as much. I hope Jeremy's not up that upset with me, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

But uh, you know, we will see you guys next month, end of June. So uh enjoy your month in between. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

Bye everyone. Thanks for joining.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

Thank you for listening to Checking In the Hospitality and Tourism Podcast with your hosts, Dr. Peter Ritchie and Jeremy Nichols. You can listen anytime on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And you can watch us live or on replay on Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn. We appreciate you being part of the conversation, and we will see you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

I sent you a message. We we