Faith Under Fire: America’s Spiritual Battle

In this powerful episode of The American Story Podcast, Tim Barton sits down with journalist, author, and cultural commentator Billy Hallowell to discuss the spiritual battles shaping our nation, the importance of biblical truth in media, and the powerful stories behind his CBN documentaries exploring angels, demons, miracles, and the supernatural.

From faith and culture to the reality of spiritual warfare, Billy shares insights from his work uncovering true stories of the unseen realm and why Christians must boldly stand for truth in every sphere of influence.

From American history to modern headlines, this conversation dives into how truth, courage, and conviction can impact families, culture, and the future of our country.

If you care about faith, freedom, spiritual warfare, and the future of America—this episode is for you.

🔔 Subscribe for more conversations on faith, history, and the people shaping America’s future.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So I go to Trump Tower for this meeting and I get up to the office and the whole time I'm looking at everything. I'm like, wow, the apprentice like really did capture what this looks like because it looked exactly like the Bellman. Every part of it looked like the show. So I get up to the office and Trump is at his desk and the wife is nowhere to be found. She had already left. So somehow she got there earlier. I got there later. She wasn't there. So I'm thinking, well, how's this gonna go? So he invites me in and we start talking, and I'm like sitting across from him like this. I'm like, this is so weird. And you know, there are a bunch of interesting things that are going on there. But the point is, he tells me, hey, I wrote her a $10,000 check for her family because I felt so bad about what's going on. And he tells me everything he thinks about Obama and all that. But this thing about the check was really interesting because he said, I really would like for you not to report on that check. And I thought, the Trump I see on TV is somebody who'd be like, I gave her a check, right? Like, how great am I? Right? That's the assumption you would have. Right. He's like, I wanted to help her family, I don't really want that to be reported. And it was this really interesting moment of humility that didn't really make sense to me in that moment, and I agreed to not report on it because it wasn't something that really mattered to the story.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Today we're in a different space because I have a friend who's in town. We actually were doing a faith event, uh, shared the stage together with uh Turning Point Faith over in Dallas. And he had a long drive to come all the way to our studio, but we have a friend, Yacko Buyens, and Yacko, amazing, so grateful. He said, Hey, just use my studio. It's really close to where you are. So that's where I am today. But the person I want you to meet and spend some time hearing some of his story, what God has done in his life, what he's getting to do right now, it's amazing. And so I want you to meet and hear the story of my friend Billy Hollowell. Billy, thank you for being with me today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. This is awesome. So uh I I first met you years ago when you were working for I don't I don't know if we say names or not, but like a different conservative organization. You were a writer. Yeah. And so it was the Blaze, the Blaze, that's the edit, yeah. Yeah, okay. So so by way of background, you have been a journalist, and uh primarily what I know is it's mostly just been faith, where you've been someone that's been helping tell a lot of faith stories, which there's been a a major shortage of that. It it feels like in media. Oh, yeah. And God has given you such a really cool platform to where you are now. Uh, so tell us what do you do now? And then I want to back up and like go from the beginning, get a running start.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Okay, I love it. So I work for Christian Broadcasting Network and I tell stories. I mean, I'm a I'm a host at CBN, so I do a lot of interviews, kind of like what you're doing. It's I'm like on the other end of it right now with all sorts of people, whether they're politicians, but there's usually a faith, as you were saying, angle to what I'm doing. So we cover everything from Israel and the war down to individual testimonies, which I actually love. Like that, I and I can't believe I'm saying this because my initial what I wanted to do was like be on Fox News, cover politics. Like that's how it all started for me. And God just kept bringing me back into no, you're gonna tell faith stories. And as a Christian, I was like, well, that's cool, that's great, but I want to be over here doing this. And and as time has gone on, it has been such a blessing to be able to tell people's testimonies. And that is the thing now that I live for. Like, I love those pivot point conversion stories, like just like the drug addict who becomes a pastor. You know, I love, I love that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Well, and and I I love too. So as a Christian, thinking about even a revelation when it talks about they overcame the evil one by the blood of Lamb through Jesus, but also by the word of their testimony. And the fact that you are helping people's testimony get out there, it is something that builds faith when you hear what God did for somebody else, because obviously there's that level where you're like, well, if he did it for them, right, maybe you can do it for me too. But that's exactly the God that we serve. He does miracles for people all the time. And a lot of times it's different than we thought, which is probably the really fun part of you hear their story, right? Of where God took them. So let's back up to your story. But then I do want to ask you, like, what are some of the favorite interviews you've had? But how did you become the journalist? Like, what as a kid, was this your ambition?

SPEAKER_01 4:21

How did it all start for you? Okay, so this is kind of weird because I think I think God does this. Like sometimes when you're young, he'll put something on your heart. And when I was really young, I'm talking like third grade, fourth grade, I loved newspapers and magazines. And I tried to make like a school magazine as a kid, you know. So it was always a thing, both entertainment and media, right? Those two areas were something that I was drawn to. And I used to say, I grew up in Rochester, New York, just outside of it, and that's upstate near Canada. I had never been to New York City. I was like, I'm gonna end up living in New York City, I know I am, and it was just like, and I ended up going to college in New York City for journalism, and so those two things stuck with me. And I'll tell you this: when I turned 15, it's it's a kind of a weird, a weird story. I'm 42 now, okay? So I've been working in media since I was 15 because what happened was I was home from school one day sick, and I was watching the news, CNN was on, and the Columbine shooting happened. It was April 20th, 1999. Yep. Homesick watching that event happen. Had I not been sick, I would not have seen the event on TV, and I would have just heard about it later. And I remember watching kids run out of the school live with their heads, their hands over their head, and I remember thinking, that is terrifying. I was a freshman at that point in high school. I don't ever want that to happen in my school. And so, you know, a little naive, but I'm thinking, okay, I want to do something to stop this from happening. And so I started reaching out to TV producers, and I was like, we should start a TV show for teenagers. You know, I had all these ideas as a 15-year-old. I love you, yeah. We should do this. And God bless these amazing producers. And they actually met with me, and I was having lunches with them and talking with them, and they were very gentle, and you know, there was no way that this 15-year-old was gonna get a TV show started. But what they said to me was, well, what if you started a website? And this is back like Geo Cities, like when websites were like very new, you know. We're still dialing up on the internet. It was dial up, like you've got mail, AOL, you know. So I ended up starting a website called Teen Web Online, and this website had in I started doing interviews with people. I started trying to create an environment that would encourage, and I was a Christian, I grew up in a Christian home. It wasn't necessarily a Christian project, but it was a crazy starting point for what came next because by the time I was 18, I was traveling, speaking, working in media. I had a column when I was 18 for this nonprofit, you know, where I would write every other week or every week actually about different issues. So that was the starting point, and it just launched me. I went to school for journalism and at that point still traveling, speaking. So I was literally like working in media very young.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Okay, so I I as someone who thinks about college, and I'm often skeptical of some of the different degree paths, uh, so I I heard someone, I think it was the New York Times that actually said this at one point. Uh, a lot of the people that actually work for them, they don't have journalism degrees. They said actually, one of the degrees we love to hire from is people that got a music degree because to get a music, you had to show up and work hard every day and discipline. And sometimes people in journalism don't always have that. But if you were already writing at that point, did you see the practical application like, oh, I could do that. I'm I'm doing this. Did you see a value and benefit for you and did it really help you go forward?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

That's such a good question. I think that 90% of what I learned in journalism school was not journalism. It was how do I survive in an environment where people disagree with me? Because I went to New York City after I felt, I'm gonna go to New York City. That's where I went to college. And I ended up at a very, very secular school. It was a Catholic school, but I was an evangelical, but and I am an evangelical, but it was not a very Catholic school. And so I had to survive like a lot of people do in that environment. And I really learned more about that, about what it would take to kind of be in New York City. And, you know, I interned at Fox News and I started doing those things, but I am very skeptical of college these days, and so I am one of those people who would say, look, if there's another career path in, not that people shouldn't go to college, but I think there need to be cheaper options. I think community colleges are great to figure out, especially if you don't know what you want to do. Why are we sending people to a school where they're gonna be $50,000 a year in debt when they have no idea what they want to do?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Well, and and this is exactly where I land, where I tell people, look, college is not the place you go to figure out what you want to do. What you should do is is pray about it and and like see where God's leading you if you're not sure. Ask some friends that know you, like, hey, what are my skills? What do you think I'd be good at? And ultimately, if you if you don't feel like you are called to do something that needs a degree, you shouldn't go to college. Agreed. Because there's very few things where actually a college degree genuinely benefits you. And I know that this is like bucking the system to say this out loud. But we also know that 43 currently, 43% of college graduates had to come back and take a job that you don't need a degree for that high school students are qualified for. And so they're and this is 43% overall. And then we also know it's it's only like 25 or 27% that will actually get a job in the field their degree was. So not even specialization in the general field. Again, it's it's almost like college is just a business to make money and not necessarily to educate people well. Sounds like that's what it is.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

And let me go on a little tie right here for a minute, too, because I think it's very interesting that we have certain people in this country that came up with a plan to provide tuition reimbursement to people, right? So you go out, you take all these loans out. And in fairness, I think there are people who have been, you know, maybe duped or tricked or pushed into taking loans out. But you know, you'd make the decision to take loans out. So you take these loans out, you're being given to the government's giving you money now, which is taxpayer dollars, to pay that back because the system isn't fair and this is terrible. And it's like, well, yeah, this is I think the college system is totally broken. That part I agree with, but the solution is incentivizing colleges to lower their tuition. It's not paying what tuition reimbursement did was literally reward the colleges for their bad behavior. Because what it did was, oh, I'm gonna pay your loans off. It did nothing to change the system, it did nothing to fix the fact they were charging that much. Real change would have been let's incentivize colleges to come up with plans that actually make more sense and are more affordable for students. So anyway, I think that's important to talk about.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Yes, and and I don't want to derail our conversation because really I want to go back to your faith journey and what you do, but I do want to put a bow on this a little bit. Also, and this is for people listening, because there's gonna be a lot of Christian families listening to us, and they're navigating this right now, too. So this is actually kind of practical in the midst of it. There are so many college degrees that although the degrees in of themselves might not be bad, if you look at like counseling or psychology, it's worth asking that beyond the fact that that's one of the most secular liberal degrees as far as professors, the percentage of percentage of professors that uh teach those courses, they're like the most liberal of all the liberal uh in university. But we graduate from universities every year, like nearly 100,000 people with a counseling degree or a psychology degree. And then it's kind of worth asking, hey, so in the job market, how many jobs are there for counselors and psychologists? And genuinely, it's like currently right now, there's about 100,000, 150,000 people that are currently employed as counselors and psychologists. So every year we are graduating almost as many people as there are entire jobs that are already largely occupied. So this is also where if colleges were honest, they would say, hey, so just so you know, if you pursue this, not a lot of opportunity in the market space. We might want to evaluate do you have a backup plan, whatever else? And I'm saying this again, knowing there are parents, there are families that are listening to us that are gonna navigate this. And some people go, I just feel God calling me into this. And and there's a lot of opportunities that I think God opens the doors. Uh, one of the things I I had my dad encourage me with, I was in the middle of a grad program and I was very frustrated because I had a kind of woke professor, and uh by that he was just very liberal, right? And I was like, this is ridiculous. Woke is a new word for that, and we we butted heads many times, and I I feel like I can confidently say I was correct, but it didn't help, right? Because this professor's like, no, all this to say, I I expressed to my dad how frustrated I was at one point, and my dad said, Well, why are you getting this degree? I said, Well, dad, if I have this degree, it's gonna open all these doors for me. And he said, Well, hang on a second. He said, You you you need to think about two things. First of all, did God call you to do this? Because if you feel like you've prayed about it, God's called, then you need to obey God, number one. But number two, do you think a degree can open any door for you that God can't? And I was like, Okay, you got me. Oh man. Because I I was doing this in my own wisdom, thinking this is what I need, right? Now, coming back to your story, right, Billy, the the the people that God's allowed you to connect with, right? The the stories you've been able to tell, the rooms you've been in, it wasn't because of the degree you had.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

No. In fact, nobody asked. I have to be honest with you, and I have to say one thing before I you brought up another issue. You're sending your kids off to be reprogrammed by people unless you send them to a Christian school, and even then you have to be careful. And so that's something to consider for parents. Just, you know, I was almost reprogrammed and I could tell you some crazy stories. But, you know, when I when I think about the rooms that I've been able to be in that God has opened doors for, it had it had everything to do with who I knew and who I interacted with and forming relationships. Now I've been reflecting a lot on this lately. I was at America Reads the Bible recently, the massive event where, you know, the with the Bible reading that we were hanging out there too. Yes, we were. That's yeah, that's where we saw each other. You know, at that event, I looked around the room, I looked around the green room where we were, and I thought about you guys, and I thought I was like, this is crazy. There were decades, a decade and a half of just connections in that room and getting to know people, and not because you wanted anything from them, but because genuinely, and I would encourage parents and their kids to get to know people because my career, 99% of the things that have happened is because I was friends with somebody or knew somebody or had interacted with them and was able to go back to them and say, Hey, can you help me get this interview? Hey, can you open this door? And so I think I I haven't sent a resume to anybody in a very, very, very long time because of that. And so when I hear somebody say, I'm sending my resume, it's sometimes you have to do that. But I think really connecting with people, that's what God wants us to do. He wants us to be in community, and that has been the key for me. And I saw that at America Reads the Bible, seeing Candace Cameron Baret, who's been a friend for 13 years, seeing you guys, I thought, wow, this is amazing. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

So, how do you go from you're already writing at 18, you go to journalism school, how does it happen for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

You know, here's the thing somebody said to me the other day, I ran into them, and they said, The last six months I've been seeing you everywhere. They're just seeing a lot of clips and a lot of things. What are you doing? What's going on? And I said, I stopped caring, and this is gonna sound bad, so let me go. About six months ago, I really stopped caring so much about trying to make my will happen. And I started leaning into what is your will. And I had always kind of done that, but really last year, through a series of events and through a series of films that we could talk about that I've been I've been hosting and been involved in, it's really forced me to rethink my faith entirely in a very positive way. Um, and and so I started pulling back and just turn tuning into God. And so I look back at that time of speaking and doing all these things at 18, and I was very fixated on making a name for myself, maybe making money, but it really was more about it was more about the attention of growing a media career. And how can I get on Fox News or how can I get over here? And so everything I was doing was focused more on that. God was there, but it was a secondary piece. And so what I've done now is I've switched those pieces and I've been busier than ever, and God has brought it together. We could talk about some of that, but but I think for me it was it was trust even back then, and okay, even though I want to make these things happen, what am I supposed to do? And so I tried to navigate that, and oftentimes I would go the wrong way. I would try to force things that weren't supposed to happen. And I ended up losing my job. I had a job, I was running a nonprof uh, it was called Voter Watch, and it was a really cool nonprofit. I had sort of come out of grad school. I went, I went to grad school for social research because I said journalists don't know anything about data. I should go get a degree in that so I can understand data better. And so I went and did that, and I worked at this nonprofit. I lose my job and I was being paid really well, and it was kind of an identity crisis because it was like, okay, what am I gonna do? And I went from making a certain amount of money down to making like $25,000 a year. I mean, it was like I had to take this job, and it was dropped in my lap, and I did not want it. And it was at a great organization, but I did not want this job, and I remember being like, God, why is this happening? Yeah. So I take the job and I thought, I'm gonna take this job for three months and then find something else. But it was during the crash in like 2008, there were no jobs. So I'm in this job for two years, and the whole time I'm like, God, what I just saw no pathway out. Yeah, and I wasn't in media. It was, it was like donor relations. It was like, it was so weird. And I started talking to the secretary one day, and she's like, Oh, my husband started a job at this great media outlet, The Blaze. You guys should have lunch. And so I end up going to lunch with her husband, John Seidel, who is a great friend of mine now. Anyway, I get hired at the Blaze. Yeah. So had I not gone through, and this is just to encourage people, that this two years of sort of like what is going on, because I had gone places maybe I wasn't supposed to go, but God still had this amazing plan. Yep. And so in the midst of that desperation, connects me with John. I end up working for Glenn Beck. I end up, I mean, really being set up to do so many amazing things that God opened doors for. And had I not gone and been in that position I didn't want to be in and stayed and listened, because at that point I did listen. I knew I was supposed to be there, even though I didn't want to be, I would not have ended up at the blaze. And that kickstarted a lot of things for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

So I which there's so many things I would love to dig deeper on, but knowing we have a time frame, I I want to jump into you going to the blaze, knowing you're a person of faith. You've now had this journey, but in this two-year-like, you know, the backside, like David back side of the mountain, right? You're God's developing you a little bit for the place God's gonna lead you. You get at the blaze. Was it your idea to write articles about faith? No.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

So they go to hire me and they're like, there's two positions open. There's an evening editor position open right now, or the faith editor position, faith and culture. Well, it wasn't faith and culture at that point, it was just faith. And I said, Okay, I gotta pray about this. I was like, What does the faith editor position look like? And they were like, Well, you get to kind of develop it because we we don't have it right now, like it's a new position. It was one of the first hires of the blaze, like one of the first five.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Can I just say the fact you said let's pray about it as like, well, bro, that's why it has to be you, right? Right, right. You're the guy being like, let me talk to God. We need someone over this who talks to God. You're the guy.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Well, and then and so I said, I'll take the faith editor position. And yeah, I went into it and we immediately tested out a lot of different things. You know, at that point, there was a lot happening culturally. You know, you had Obama, you had all these things going on. And we started moving into testimonies at some point. We started moving into, I remember Glenn said something, oh, it was so profound. You know, obviously everybody believes what it believes that in media, like if it bleeds, it leads, right? That's why there's so many negative stories. But he said, I want to tell I want us to tell stories of love and courage. I'm remembering now. Love and courage where the good guys win. That was something that Glenn felt passionate about. And it was kind of the inversion of what everybody else was doing. And so we started doing that, and those stories would blow up. And these could be simple stories. Somebody goes to an abortion clinic and they're praying outside of it, and they see a young woman choose life, right? And what and then they they journey with that young woman and they help her raise the baby. I mean, these stories, it didn't have to be Chris Pratt or some big name, it was people's real stories, and so I gotta be honest, at that point in my own faith walk, I was a Christian in my mind, right? I was not a Christian in my heart yet. And so some might say I really wasn't a Christian yet. I don't know, but I had grown up my whole life in the church, and I'm watching these stories, and they're starting to like wear me down a little bit and make me say, wait a minute, this is what the gospel really is. These stories are what the gospel really is. Like, this is what Jesus did. He told stories, right? He was endlessly telling stories, and being able to tell those stories started to change me and my focus. And so I spent almost six years in that position at the blaze until it was time to kind of move to the next thing, and that was when I really started to trust God more in that process.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

Was there a story that you remember like that one changed me?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

There were so many. I mean, there are so many stories. One involves President Trump, which is kind of interesting. Okay, so let's tell let's tell this story because President Trump, he wasn't president yet, he was very critical of Obama when Obama was president because there was a pastor, Saeed Abedini, who was being held in Iran. Yes. Okay. And interesting, we're talking about Iran, right? He was being held in Iran, and Trump was vocally attacking Obama for not doing enough to get this American pastor who was Iranian released. And so Trump was gonna meet with his wife at the time in his office at Trump Tower. And somehow I got looped into this meeting and got invited to this meeting where I was gonna report on what Saeed's wife and Trump talked about. So I go to Trump Tower for this meeting, and I get up to the office, and the whole time I'm looking at everything, I'm like, wow, the apprentice like really did capture what this looks like because it looked exactly like the Bellman, every part of it looked like the show. So I get up to the office, and Trump is at his desk, and the wife is nowhere to be found. She had already left. So somehow she got there earlier, I got there later, she wasn't there. So I'm thinking, well, how's this gonna go? So he invites me in and we start talking, and I'm like sitting across from him like this. I'm like, this is so weird. And you know, there are a bunch of interesting things that are going on there. But the point is, he tells me, Hey, I wrote her a $10,000 check for her family because I felt so bad about what's going on. And he tells me everything he thinks about Obama and all that. But this thing about the check was really interesting because he said, I really would like for you not to report on that. Check. And I thought the Trump I see on TV is somebody who'd be like, I gave her a check, right? How great am I? Right? That's the assumption you would have. Right. He's like, I wanted to help her family. I don't really want that to be reported. And it was this really interesting moment of humility that didn't really make sense to me in that moment. And I agreed to not report on it because it wasn't something that really mattered to the story. You know, the story was that this pastor was trapped in Iran and needed to get out. And so a few years go by, and more recently, after Saeed was released, he revealed this $10,000 gift that Trump had given them. And I've talked about this a number of times because it gave a very different perspective on the president for me. Uh, because I think people have assumptions about people, and as Christians, we have to be very careful with assumptions about people because he had given that out of the goodness of his heart and didn't want anybody to even know about it. So it just it and that's a minor thing, but it it for me refocused when I think something about somebody or I have an assumption about them, I'm very careful to run with that now. Yeah, so that's a that's a minor one, but it's an important one.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

It's it's a great point because a lot of times all people see is the outside persona, and we've been with enough people, we know some of them what you see is what you get, and that's who they always are. But then, like President Trump, he was a TV personality, yeah. So he turns on his TV personality when the cameras are rolling in many occasions, and and so being able to have some of the knowledge, but also the personal interview with this guy, and obviously, this is when this is going on, there's not quite the aspiration and calls. I mean, the people are suggesting it because they've suggested it for years, right? But it's not the full-on like, this is the dude running for president, and so you really had this incredible glimpse, which is amazing. I want to keep going with that because I I I have read so many of your articles uh and love the stories you highlight. And I also want to get into some of the projects you're working on now, uh, some of the writings and the production and shows, but there are so many incredible testimonies that you have shared. So you've given us a glimpse into a deeper level of the president than people have seen. What are some of the testimonies that like when you hear, and I know this is hard because you've written like 1700, I don't know, thousand, whatever it is. It's it's probably about sixteen thousand at this point. Thousand, there it is. Like, oh my god. So I know you can't remember them all, but I know I've read some, and I'm like, I can barely believe this is real or true. Are there any you remember as you are investigating or having the conversation, you're like, is this real? Because that's the craziest miracle I've ever heard of.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Yeah, I mean, I think, gosh, there's so I mean, there are so, so many. One of them that I think is one of the most important ones, and you may know Joshua Broom. There's Joshua Broom and there's Brittany De La Mora. Both of them were in the adult film industry. Yeah. And when Brittany came out of the adult film industry, that was back in, it's been well over, it's probably 12, 13 years at this point. Yep. Uh, I remember reading about it, and I think it was the Daily Mail had an article on it, and they always have over the top, you know, articles. And I was reading about it, I thought I need to connect with this person. And I connected with her, and I was blown away by the fact that this person, who was probably one of the most famous adult film stars, had had this encounter with the Bible. I mean, this is a person who not only worked in the adult film industry, her fiance was murdered in front of her. She was just, she lived the most insane. You talk about spiritual warfare and the attacks of the enemy, and when you make decisions, what happens? You know, when you're living for years as an adult film star, and you have all this chaos with drugs, all these things, the epitome of darkness, yeah, that this person found Jesus, right? And her entire life changed. And it was one of the first stories for me where I said, I really see it. Like I really see this person who went from darkness to light. And Britney and I remain friends, you know, 14, 13 years later, and she's in ministry and she's ministering to other people who are doing this. And Joshua Broom, same story, you know, and and he's a pastor now. And so when you see a story like that, you have to say, like, there's nothing else in this world, and I've come to this conclusion, I don't care what anybody says, there are things that change people, but nothing to the level that what we're talking about, other than the gospel. That is the thing that shifts people, you know. And I can tell you too, there was a young woman, this is a separate story, who was going in. She was actually in the waiting room to get an abortion, and she was about to do it. She didn't know anything about her pregnancy. She walked past the protesters, and these protesters, they weren't screaming, they weren't yelling at people. They had signs and they were lovingly trying to talk to her. She goes in, because a lot of a lot of a lot of pro-life people who go, they get a bad rap at some point. Absolutely. Are there people who go over the top and do it wrong? Sure. But a lot of them are getting a bad rap. These people were doing it right, and she's sitting in the waiting room, she's looking out at them, and she's thinking, This girl, huh, you know, this is really interesting. And something told her as she was gonna go in for that abortion appointment to go back out and talk to them. So she goes out and she talks to these people, and they are just loving on her and talking to her, like, hey, you know, you can come with us, we'll give you an ultrasound, like you could see your baby, you know. So she ends up deciding not to have an abortion. She goes, and the ultrasound shows two babies. She's pregnant with twins. Wow. Now, this is somebody who was afraid. She was afraid. She didn't know the reason she was going for the abortion, and this is why most women, they're afraid, they don't know what to do, they don't know where to turn. Those protesters didn't just tell her, hey, don't have the abortion. They threw her a baby shower. They journeyed with her, they were there for the delivery, they they came around her the way the church is supposed to. And it was such a moment for me of like, wow, I got to interview her after, and then she showed the babies, right? And then I interviewed her a couple years later when they were, you know, toddlers. And it was like, this is very literally life or death and the power of the gospel and the power for Christians to show up. Right. Right. These are not stories that the mainstream media are telling us. Half the time I read a story in the mainstream media, I get five paragraphs down into the story. I'm like, okay, there's where the story is, right? They miss the mark because they don't understand it. In life, we are looking through one of two lenses. We're either looking through an Ephesians 6 lens, a gospel lens, or we're looking through a murky, chaotic lens that that the enemy is somehow filtering, right? And so those are just a couple of stories, but I mean being able to tell those again and again has just transformed me.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

I I have so many directions again, I want to go because I having read so many, um, and knowing that the way you are able to capture some of what God has done in people, um, and and what's happening now, because I I fully believe that we are in the midst of a revival, like as somebody that studies a lot of history, I can track that historically and be like, guys, like we're checking all the boxes, not just of a revival, but maybe even a new awakening that's happening. And part of what happens in awakening is there is a level of discipleship with faith, but part of a discipleship of faith often comes when when you grow a depth of faith and when you hear other people's testimonies, often the Holy Spirit like works on you and, like, hey, let's grow here and do this. And so what you are sharing is so profound in the midst of the doors that God has opened, and because I I do want to get into all of your projects, but just like as a little bit of kind of like a fanboy thought question, has there been a moment you talk to somebody and you're like, I can't believe I get an interview this person? I can't believe I'm talking, or at this point you know so many people. Has has there been anybody, not that you'd be tongue-tied and you wouldn't know what to say, but can you think of somebody that you're like, this is a really cool interview?

SPEAKER_01 29:40

You know, one time I interviewed Steven Spielberg, there were people that like I think Trump, you know, Steven Spielberg, when you go down the line, even at Candace Cameron Baret, when I first interviewed her the first time, I thought, this is really cool. Like people you grow up watching, yes, right, and then you are suddenly talking to them. You know, there are a lot of moments, and I I'll be honest with you, at America Reads the Bible was the first time in a long time where I had a moment of, oh my goodness, thank you, God, for this opportunity to be here and to be able to do this because I think you get so used to it. And it's like with you and everything you do, you you start to take, and I can't speak for you, but you start to take things for granted almost. It's like, you know, this these opportunities to provide people with information through interviewing other people. And so I never here's the other thing, and this is weird. I'm kind of weird this way, and maybe this is bad for journalism. I don't really care what people think. I for me, if I walk away from an interview and I'm not friends with somebody, it's weird. Yeah. Or I don't keep in touch with them. It's actually that doesn't generally happen. So every once in a while it'll happen where you can't break through to somebody and you're like, oh, that's interesting. It's fine, they're not there to be my friend. Sure. But I really love people, and so I tend to connect with people who I interview, and and this is something, again, that I think is important as we just interact with people. There are friendships that have formed. I mean, Candace is somebody that I could call if I needed something or I needed support for something. She's been very supportive. There are other people like that, and so I forming those friendships has been important. So I kind of see people, and the reason I bring that up in the lens of a friend, and just these are all normal people, right? Totally. And and so I love to connect and sort of bring that out too, because I think there's even in Christian culture, and I've noticed this at award shows and other places, we can idolize people a little bit, and we have to be really, really careful with that. Yeah, it's it's dangerous. We don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

No, and one of the things too, as you're as you're being able to record and tell the testimony of so many people, one of the things that uh I I said this a lot, I was a youth pastor for nine and a half years, I was on staff at a church, I'm an ordained minister. You live to tell the tale. I'm telling you. But and so and I get to speak in churches all over the nation, all throughout the year. And one of the things, but usually I tell this more to students a lot with this idea of idolizing people is look, nobody's above the flesh. And and and we have to be careful. Like the reason Jesus came is because none of us would ever be good enough. And even though like we want to learn to live bearing more fruit, right, being better reflections of Jesus. As long as we are here, there's a flesh, and if we don't crucify it daily, that flesh can sneak up and get you. Oh, yeah. And obviously, when you're tired, like for us that travel all the time, like some of my more fleshly moments is I've been gone for so many days, and I'm just like, leave me alone for a minute.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Right. I yeah, right. Oh, 100%. And you're you're tired, you're worn down, you're like that. And that those are the moments where you have to be the most aware of for sure.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

But but that being said, the reason to your point that we have to be careful when we see some of these people that we appreciate either a gifting or a talent or a testimony that we don't elevate them higher than we should, because everybody has a flesh and everybody needs Jesus because of their flesh. Uh, and as long until we get the new, the new bodies, uh, we're gonna navigate this fleshly world we live in, to your point of why we we shouldn't elevate people higher than we should. We appreciate so much how God uses them. Because even if you go to Hebrews 11, our Faith Hall of Fame, and we're told like these are the hall of heroes, the the amazing people of faith, and you start reading their stories and you're like, Noah got drunk and passed out naked, right? Like Abraham offered his wife to the like, you're like, these are our heroes. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're not honored because they didn't have major fleshly moments. They're honored because they recognized who God was, they sought to be used by God, they glorified God. God used them in significant ways to advance his people, his story, his kingdom, but even they weren't above the flesh. And if they weren't, we have to guard ourselves even more recognizing nobody's above the flesh. So just to reiterate that thought of be careful not to idolize these people.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, I mean, it's it's hugely important. And in the beginning, I would get really excited to talk to people, you know, and then over time I was like, I'm still excited to talk to people, but I just see them and I and I think people want to be treated normal too. You know, I think a lot of these people, you know, it's not good for them for people to be idolizing them. You know, I was at one award show and I was watching people scream for all these Christians, and I thought, huh. I just had a moment where I thought, I don't know if this is healthy, right? That we're that excited to see. Right. It's it's okay to be excited to see your favorite artist, you're excited to hear their music. I get that, but I think we have to be really, really, really careful because we not only is it not good for us, it's actually not good for them either. So I've learned that over the years, and also, you know, leaning into what their struggles are, you know, a lot of these people, it's very hard to be that level of fame or attention, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:25

And so it's lonely, it's busy, you're gone. So, so with this, let me connect some dots because uh uh obviously, as we're talking, there's there's there's spiritual levels and spiritual components to so much it's happening. And we have to, as Christians, we want to grow to be more spiritually attuned and spiritually aware that the Holy Spirit helps us with these things. Uh, and I'm saying that as a lead-in to you have some projects you're working on that maybe like help reveal, tell some stories. What are you working on right now?

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Okay, so we have a series at CBN, at Christian Broadcasting Network. It's a documentary series. We started working on it in 2023. We released the first film in 2025. It's called Investigating the Supernatural Miracles. And the new film that just came out, March 16th, people can go to cbn.com/slash supernatural. It's called Investigating the Supernatural Angels and Demons. And I have to tell you, these so the Angels and Demons film, we go around the country and I and I tell stories. You know, I go into people who have had claims of interacting with angels or demons, and we say, Is this true? Tell us your story. We do reenactments, we get into theology. We have theologians, we have Lee Strobel, we have um John Burke. So we've got a lot of different people coming together to talk about the issue. What does scripture say and what is happening in the world around us? Now, this series was supposed to be a TV series, and when we started filming the Miracles episode, we got into it like one or two days of filming. We're like, we cannot film a 30-minute special on like this has to be a full feature film. And so we are have just been on this incredible journey, and I will tell you, you know, there's different phases in my life, and I think about things that have impacted me, the storytelling, right? All of that. And I feel like God used that to get me, and this is all me selfishly talking about how God has used this this work to refine me. That got me thinking more about God and the gospel and what that means. But there's been a big part of my journey that I think I've kind of been missing, and that deals with some of the supernatural, right? That that word that not everybody loves, but I mean, everything in scripture is supernatural, everything in our lives is supernatural, right? And we don't think of it that way. And so when I we started diving into this series, it's like, well, I would have said I believed in miracles, but I hadn't seen any. I hadn't been around any. And so we start diving in to tell those stories, and I was blown away because as somebody who generally approaches things skeptically, even though I believe they're possible, I was confronted with stories that I couldn't explain.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

But also as a journalist, right, you should come in with skepticism. You believe everything you're told. Yeah. But that's also like you mentioned Lee Strobel. That's exactly what like his entire story is a skeptic being like, I don't believe any of this. Yep. But when you start doing honest investigation, not only do you realize, oh, there's a real God who is really on the move and doing things, but also you realize, oh, angels and demons, like that's that's a real thing. And as Christians, it's it's a little funny to me sometimes the things that we can read in the Bible and then disconnect in our modern life.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

It's insane. Right. We believe it in our minds, and this is what I was saying before about myself, not in our hearts. And I realized again, oh no, I'm believing things in my mind again, but not in my heart. And so as we've been journeying through this, it has been a wild, wild personal ride for me. I woke up one day, and it's a little heavy, but I woke up one day in February of 2025. We're about to release the film. I was super excited about it, and it's on miracles. So I'm like, this is positive, this is great, like this is gonna be, it's not like the angels and demons one. We'll deal with that later. That's gonna be heavy. And I woke up with this heaviness that was like I knew it was spiritual. It was, I've never felt anything like it before. It was almost like this oppressive sort of depression or like sadness. And I had I spent most of 2025 journeying through that. Wow, and it coincided with this series, and it was really interesting because I had to deal with some things and I had to figure out, and here I am going out and promoting this film about miracles, and I'm feeling the worst I ever have. And it was an interesting journey because it really brought me to well, what am I not in my faith walk? What am I not doing? Like, what have I left on the table that I'm not engaging? You know, and and so for me that meant doing a lot of things differently, like making sure every day, starting in September of last year, I started doing prayer walks. I would go out because I don't like silence, and you need silence sometimes to hear the Lord. So I will put headphones, I'll always fill silence with something. And so I stopped doing that. Like for 15 minutes every morning, I would go for a walk around 5 45 in the morning, and I would just pray to God out loud, and that shifted everything. Wow, it shifted the way I see God, it shifted how I hear God's voice. I didn't even know what that meant before. Yeah. Um, and I'm not hearing an audible voice, but but the way he speaks to me is completely clear, and it never really was before. It was always kind of like I waited to get peace about something, or I waited to so anyway. I'll stop there, but I'll tell you the Angels and Demons documentary has been very interesting because it opened up Ephesians 6 as a very real. I mean, as we're sitting here, there's a lot going on. You mentioned revival. I think right now I've never seen in my lifetime, and I don't know if you'll agree with this, a time where Ephesians 6 is more alive in terms of the spiritual battle, young people flocking to faith, right, and chaos unfolding, and both are elevating. I think Charlie Kirk's assassination was a moment of recognition of that, right? Big time, and what happened after that. It was like Ephesians 6 came alive, like I've never seen before.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Well, and I think it's too, so it's interesting you've mentioned Ephesians several times because I think it's Ephesians 1, where Paul prays um God that the eyes of their understanding may be enlightened, right? That their eyes could be opened to see something deeper spiritually. And I think after Charlie's murder, watching what can only be described in many cases as demonic, the celebrations on social media, um, the some of the things people were doing, and and I think it it it opened people's eyes twofold that there really are some very evil things in the world, and there's some things that look pretty stinking demonic. And and so I think a lot of people's spiritual eyes were being opened. And so I'm just curious, when you started your faith walks, was that after Charlie's murder, or was that even before?

SPEAKER_01 40:24

It was right after. Wow. And you know, I was on a flight back from Ireland, I was on a film set in Ireland, the Jimmy Stewart movie that's coming out later this year. I was on that film set. We had internet, and I saw that he was shot. People started texting me, and so I started texting people, I started calling some friends that we know, or not calling, texting some friends that we know to be like, what do you know? What's going on? Yep. And the the heaviness of that moment felt it felt very spiritual. Just that that moment, and I was like, I need to get off this airplane. That's all I kept thinking. I need to get off this airplane. Um, but it was after that. It was after that that I started those walks, and I was still grappling with some of what I had felt earlier in that in the year, and I really felt God saying, like, you know, this is a refining moment. And I think all of us were feeling that last year, especially after Charlie. And so as we're journeying through this, our next documentary is Heaven and Hell, Near Death Experiences, we'll be looking at. It has been just so refining, and it's made me think again, like, what and I this is a challenge for everybody. And look, there's a lot of debate in the church about the gifts and whether they've ceased or not, and you know, all these different things. I am of the mind that supernatural things are still happening, and I mean, I just spent years of my life looking at these things, and I can tell you there's evidence for these things, and you know, looking at history all the times that God has shown up you know, in the last 200 years in this country, right? 100%, right? I mean, so we uh the question is, did that all end, or is it still and it's still happening? And so that was encouraging to me, but I would encourage people to ask the question are you walking in everything God has for you to be walking in? And I think for me, I still am figuring some of it out. I'm like, okay, got whatever you got, like I want it.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Well, and so let me let me let me speak this too. So for those that might be listening, be like, I got it. If your first answer was I'm good, you didn't pray about it, and you're probably wrong. Because one of the amazing things, even about like studying the Bible, it what's so great. I I grew up in a home, the Bible was heavily elevated. Like, this is whatever it says, that's what we're gonna do. And we used to read the Bible together as a family every morning with a one-year Bible. That's how we started the day as kids. When I got old enough to read, I remember it was kind of a big deal because I got to read part of the New Testament or Psalms or Proverbs. And so we grew up really valuing scripture and and and prioritizing a lot of what the Bible was. And and the reason that I I bring part of this up is navigating part of what we are seeing today uh in in regard to what is laid out in the Bible, we have we have really derailed from some basic Bible thoughts that are elevated, where as you read the Bible, the reason we read it as Christians over and over and over again is because we even learn from scripture that that God is big enough, He can reveal new truth to you every day, even if you read the same chapter. And he will. And he does. Yeah. But so growing up reading the one year Bible, we read it every year, not because we hadn't heard the story of Jonah and the whale or Daniel in the lion's den, right? Or you pick any old testament story. Uh it's because we knew there was value in repeating it. And I'm saying it again to your point when when you are very gently suggesting, like, hey, maybe just see if God has more for you. God always has more for you. Always. And by the when when we come to the place we're like, no, I'm good, you're really not. It's a scary place to be, actually. It's a real dangerous place to be. It I mean, honestly, I can think about when Samson was like, I'm good, right? And and what the Bible says is that when his head was shaved, he got up and said, I'm still good. And it says he did not even know the spirit of the Lord. Departed from him. That is one of the most terrifying verses in the Bible.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

I just read that because I'm doing Bible in a year right now. I was just going through that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Right?

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

But like genuinely, if you come to the place, you're like, I'm good. I again, I just as a caution, we need to make sure that we are constant pursuers because God is not done giving to us and pouring into us. And so, man, such a good reminder and encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

And I spent most of my walk there probably. I I probably spent a lot of my walk in. I'm good. Like I'm good. I got it. I'm still reading my Bible and I'm praying. But the last year I've been like, not only was I not good, like I love what I'm learning. Like I love what I'm learning about the Lord and how He's communicating with me. And, you know, pulling back again in the last six months, going back to what I said earlier, and being like, okay, God, what do you really have? Because I can sit here all day and say, I want this, that, that, I want to do this. You know, maybe that's not what I'm supposed to be doing. Yeah. And it may be, I mean, I think about missionaries who go and they give up everything. There's somebody at my church who's in Cambodia and she's given up her entire life. She's in Cambodia running a shelter for girls who are coming out of trafficking, and that's her entire life. And I'm like, I'm complaining about like some first world problem over here, and this woman gave it all up. So the qu that doesn't mean we're all called to do that, though. Right. That's not my point. But my point is figuring out what we are called to do and actually doing it.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Okay, can we back up to miracles? Yeah. So as you have done some work and research and you couldn't just do 30 to minute episodes, there's too much of the story to tell. What are some of the things you saw that you were like that there's no other explanation? This had to have been God.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Okay, so there's this family, um, Brian LePoo and and his wife, and they live in New Jersey. He was a cop, a police officer, and we feature this. And if you want to see the Miracles film is cbn.com forward slash miracles, so you can see it there. Brian fell on the ice as a cop while he was working and he broke his neck. And the doctor said, Oh, he'll be fine. They did surgery, he'll be okay. He was not okay. A month goes by, he's partially paralyzed. Another month goes by. For 10 years, this man was paralyzed, okay, on part of his body. He had to wear this horrific leg brace to even be able to walk. Um, he was in a wheelchair for a lot of it, um, series of surgeries. And so during that 10 years, he and his wife went to prayer meeting after prayer meeting after prayer meeting, and he was not getting healing. Now, as Christians, we should believe that healing is possible because we know God could do anything. But he got to a point where he was tired, so tired that he said, I don't want anybody touching any me anymore, I don't want anybody praying over me. I'm done. And his wife was like, But can we just go to one more prayer meeting? And it's funny, he tells the story, he's like, She, it was our anniversary, it was it was her birthday, and he's like, I was cheap, and so I was like, you know what? Fine, we'll go, it'll be your gift, you know. So they go to this prayer meeting and they're sitting there, and this is crazy because it's on film and it's in our documentary. Somebody captured this on cell phone video, she's getting frustrated now because he's not getting called up to be prayed for. So she goes to the bathroom, he's sitting there, and he said it was as though somebody lifted him up from behind. He had his leg brace on, and he makes his way up to the front, and this young girl and her husband, you know, they pray over him, he collapses to the ground, okay, like falls backward, you know, and he's kind of out for a second. When he comes to his hand, part of the paralysis, his hand had been folded up for ten plus years, couldn't use his hand. His hand opens up, he walks out of this place without the leg brace. Now, this is all on video, it's all corroborated. We corroborated all these stories, medical records. There was zero chance that this man was going to be healed, okay, from a from a scientific standpoint. And the doctors are baffled by it, everyone's baffled by it. Um, you know, so that's a story where you're like, okay, well, what happened? Because the now you can ask some theological questions, what took 10 years? Why was it so many prayers? And we get into some of that in the film. But the point is, it was at a prayer meeting that this man, his hand opens up, and his wife just the way she's crying telling the story. She had she's like, I hadn't seen his hand open up in 10 years. So stories like that, a brain tumor disappearing without any medical intervention, and all they did was pray. So there's a lot of those kinds of stories, and I think for the skeptics, and I have offered this many times, I've been like, look, if you're a skeptic and you've watched this film and you have some other explanation, please email me. Yeah, BillyHollowwall gmail.com. Like, email me, I'm putting it out there. Nobody has challenged any of these stories. So that really built my faith up.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Wow. Okay, so angels and demons, like let's just let's go down this rabbit hole. Let's do it. Because you've had all these conversations.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Let's do it. This this film I was a little more nervous about because this is a tough topic. I think people really, but what's interesting, I think people feel like these are weird subjects, right? Like angels and demons, but the majority of the public, 84% of the public, believes there's a spiritual realm beyond our own.

SPEAKER_02 48:42

The the fact that this is a normal thing in Hollywood, like because we know people intuitively, it's almost like God put something in us, like the spiritual side.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Yeah, almost like there's a there's a God-filled, you know, God-shaped hole.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

It's almost like something help. But all of this is saying, like a hundred percent. People that don't believe in God still believe somehow in demons or the devil.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Well, and let's and let's talk about this. And this this is the shameful part. I don't want to shame the church, but parts of the church. Hollywood is talking about a Christian issue more than some churches are, and that should make us feel ashamed. Right. They're not doing it the right way, but every Halloween, those demon movies come out because there's a natural interest in this, and I will tell you, I have an easier time sometimes getting secular people to talk about this, even when it comes to going on and doing interviews, than I do some Christian outlets. Wow. And that is a truth, and it is shocking. Wow. You know, I don't know if it's a well, I have theories. Is it a fear of being afraid that we're gonna look weird? Is it I don't know, I don't know what it is, but the public believes this, and and it's our job to pull people away from the new age, away from the chaos, and to bring them into Christianity. I mean, Ephesians 6 tells us this, okay, and then we can talk about the stories. And we've talked a lot about Ephesians 6, we are in a spiritual battle. It's not a battle between us versus them, Democrat versus Republican. It's a spiritual battle that is pouring over, and you have to survive that battle by being a Christian, right? Taking up the shield of faith, being a Christian. But you're in the battle. To act like we're not in a battle, guess what? You're all in the battle, and you cannot win a battle you don't know you're in. So if we're going to continue down this path of insanity and pretending that what happened to Charlie and what's going on around us isn't even the positive side of watching young people come to faith. This is part of that spiritual battle. Totally. And we're in it. So the film deals with that, but it deals with psychiatrists, psychologists. We have a psychotherapist in this film, um, who the these are people who have dealt with the demonic. And Richard Gallagher is one of them. He was a consultant for the Catholic Church. We tell his journey, his story. He was a skeptic. They brought him in. Um, he very quickly became a believer once he started seeing some of the stories and dealing with some of the people. Yeah. And we could tell specific ones if you want. Um, and then we dealt with the angelic side. You know, claimed angels, angels and demons are interesting because demons stick around. Angels don't. If you look at scripture, angels show up, they deliver a message, they minister, and they leave.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Well, and even one of the things I think it was Paul that said, like, be careful you treat people, because there could be an angel unaware among you, because they don't have they don't have the perception of what we often think, like the big wings, you know, glowing light, whatever else. In fact, it's really funny when you read Revelation and the description of some of the angels with, you know, multiple additional things that you don't expect in the eyeballs, and you're like, that's I would be so freaked out by that, which also makes sense why in the Bible one of the most common phrases that an angel says after they show up is be not afraid, right? Don't be afraid. Um, but the fact that they could be among us and we wouldn't know it also seems to indicate that they can look just like us.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

Yep. And and that opens up a lot of questions. There's one other issue we deal with in the film, and we deal with it briefly, but it was important was this alien UFO conversation because this is a big thing right now. It's a big mainstream thing. And my fear on this is that a lot of churches and Christians are gonna do the same thing we've done with demons. We're not gonna talk about it, we're gonna look away from it. You need to have an answer, you need to figure out what you think.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

So I I don't want to stop you because I hope you're about to give part of that answer, but I and so if I'm jumping too far ahead right now, I'm gonna apologize in advance. But this is to me one of those things that's a little silly. Uh, what is like by definition, what's an alien? It's something that was not created on this planet. So by definition, every angel and demon are aliens. Right. By literal definition. Yep. And we also know that angels and demons can fly. So an unknown flying object that looks like an alien, like, again, I don't know where all you go in the film. I'm just saying, like, that's not hard for me as a go in the film.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

I mean, so Hugh Ross, who's an astrophysicist, we bring him in, and Hugh Ross describes what he believes is going on. And what he believes is that it's a demonic deception, that it is not, that aliens are not. And he actually has some science to back what he's saying, why UFOs cannot be flying the way that people think they are, why they're not physical from his perspective. And so I think this is going to be an important conversation for the church to have because guess what? Alien disclosure, people are gonna be talking about this. It's happening. This is happening, right? Whether whether we like it or not, it's a conversation. I wish we didn't have to talk about it, but I think in some ways, look, the majority of these cases are explainable by natural phenomena, but the the residual ones, people are seeing something. So the question is, what are they seeing? Right. And so we do get a little bit into that. Um, but but really the point of this of this film is to point people towards evidence for the fact that angels and demons are still there, they're very real, and that people, modern day people are having interactions with them. And so just like with the Miracles film, we provide evidence of that, we provide story of that, and there's some really compelling stories.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

So I I do want to ask for a couple examples just a second, but I also want to point out all of these things are things the Bible actually talks about. Yep. And so, why I I I I do recognize a little bit of the the caution and hesitation like I share with you of how is the church going to respond? But I say that because we have a church that has not been teaching the whole Bible for a while, yeah. And so now, even though these are things like guys, this is literally what the Bible says for so many people, that's not what their pastors ever talked about. That that so many Christians have never read the Bible for themselves, and so it it it can be something that not only seems so wild and crazy, but also to your point, if pastors don't handle it well, if we don't go, guys, it's no big deal, right? Literally, like the Bible gives us indication of some of these things. Um, and so to me, it does give me a little bit of hope in the midst of knowing, like we've we've talked about a little bit before. We we I think I think you agreed, but I think that we are definitely in the midst of of God doing a great work. There's some kind of revival, something happening. And part of what I'm hopeful about, there are more people now buying Bibles than ever before. Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily mean they're reading as much as they should, but that's a different conversation. Take it a step. Right. But if you have a Bible, the Bible is far more relevant and practical than most people realize. And I'm hoping that maybe even through some of this, when there are some good voices out there saying, hey guys, look at this, read this, do this, it might connect those dots for them, but let's back up because I've seen like social media, but not AI, right? Social media videos of things, and it's like it's sometimes like people's faces almost change, and you're like that and they're like, This person is demon-possessed. And and I don't mean to be weird on that at all. Um, do y'all cover, like go into any of that direction?

SPEAKER_01 55:25

Um, what do you do? Well, we provide some case studies, and we provide there's a woman named Julia who Dr. Gallagher worked with, and this is one example that we provide. And I gotta tell you, this one was wild. I had read her story before. It's it's a sad story, it does not end the way that people would want it to end. Um, not you know, spoiler alert, but she was a she was a Satan worshiper, which is which is rare. I mean, people do it, but usually when people are dealing with oppression or possession or spiritual issues, you know, they've they've opened a door in some way, but they're not necessarily worshiping Satan. Right. She was in a cult, she was doing that, and she recognized that she was getting certain abilities from that that she enjoyed, but at the same time realized that she was losing control. She was in in moments of you know real possession and she wanted help. So she went to a priest for help. Um, but she was dealing with this, you know, do I want to leave the cult? Do I not? So Dr. Gallagher, after he agrees, he says to them, I'm a skeptic, I don't think I should be you know looking into these cases. They said, No, no, no, that's why we want you. So he starts looking into the cases. Julia is one of the cases. Now he has no idea the priest is gonna bring Julia to his house. And the night before Julia arrives, he has two cats, and his cats start going crazy and they're fighting with each other, and that was apparently not common for his cats. And his wife, they wake up in the middle of the night, they separate the cats, like, this is really weird. So his doorbell rings, and Julia is at the door with the priest, and the priest says, This is Julia, meet Julia, you know, Dr. Gallagher. And she says to him, one of the first things she says, How did you like what I did with the cats last night? And so it's these sort of things, right? Now that's a minor one. There were some other things with Julia that were verifiable. One of them was that she would claim to have the ability to astral project. And so this always sounded like sci-fi ridiculousness to me, this astral projection, the idea that you and I could be here, but if I have this ability, I could tell you what your dad is doing, you know, 50 miles away, or I could tell you what's going on somewhere else. Now, we have to recognize that what's actually happening here is when somebody is that far into the demonic realm, they're being given messages by demons. They're not actually traveling to this other place, they're being given Well, it's it's King Saul going to the Witch of Endor.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

Yes, and being like, hey, I need to speak to that guy that died. He was important. Samuel, can you bring him back? There are biblical examples of people using demonic power to do demonic things, but it's important, again, as you're indicating, that's demonic. It's not of God, and and the devil only comes to do three things steal, kill, and destroy.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

And confuse.

SPEAKER_02 57:57

Well, which is part of the destruction or whatever else, right? But I mean, totally. Because he's God is the author, God is not the author of confusion, the Bible tells us. He's not the God of chaos or disorder. And so the devil is on the opposite, Jesus came to give life and life more abundantly. So everything that God does, the devil does the opposite. All that to say, it's not that demons don't have power. Now, their power subjects, Christians, and this is very big for anybody that's feeling heavy right now, as Christians. Greater is he that is in you than he that's in the world. And if you're not feeling that right now, you need to go pray for a little bit. And you go read your Bible, build yourself up in your faith because God is greater than any of these outside forces. The Bible reaffirms and reassures us of that. Uh, but not to digress a little bit, this is there's real demonic stuff.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

Oh, absolutely. And and we should not be afraid. We should take authority over it. We have authority over it. Jesus has already won, but that doesn't mean we're not in the battle. Right. And I think with this particular case, you know, so so the astral projection, Dr. Gallagher was with her one day, trying to counsel her, deal with it, assess what's going on. And she's she starts talking about the priest who's not there. He oh, he's walking near the river. He's wearing a blue coat. I could see what he's doing right now. You know, she's like kind of bragging about this ability, and so he thinks it's ridiculous, Dr. Gallagher. He calls the priest, and the priest, he's like, What are you doing right now? He doesn't tell him he's with Julia. What are you doing right now? Well, I'm walking near the river. I you know, what are you wearing right now? Got a blue coat on everything she's saying is accurate to where he is in that moment. And the priest says, You're with Julia right now, aren't you? The priest knew because he had been dealing with this with this woman. So there were lots of examples of that. And this is a guy, Dr. Gallagher, who teaches at Columbia University. He's Ivy League educated. This is somebody who is well respected. And so that it was important for us to have people who had very verifiable cases and were dealing with things that we could say, okay, you know, I'm skeptical, but you got to prove to me that this that this happened. And so we have a number of cases like that, issues like that. And then we have on the other side some really interesting angel stories as well.

SPEAKER_02 59:50

Okay, so I know you have a time frame. I don't want to keep you too long, but I do want to highlight and on a positive note, and then I I have uh a question I ask everybody who's on the program uh before they get out. But you for those listening, and you mentioned like this feels a little heavier at times. Um, you also have another one coming out. You said heaven and hell, which I'm super excited about because uh I've heard Lee Stroble talk about this to other people, like you can't hardly find a case of someone having a near-death experience where hell or heaven weren't involved on some level, and ultimately helping actually direct spiritually for them, like I need to do this or not do that. So I'm super interested. I'm so excited. Uh, cbn.com forward slash, I assume, is where we're going. Yep. Um supernatural. Yep. So, so what is one of the really fun God stories to end on a high note? What is one of the fun God stories you've done recently uh that you could go, man, look what God did. How cool is this?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

You know, I'm gonna tell you, it is it is America Reads the Bible, Bunny Pounds and this event. You know, Bunny came to all of us a couple years ago and said, I've got this great idea. I want to bring everybody together to pray, you know, to pray or to pray and read the Bible, to read the entire Bible over the course of a week. And she started telling me about it, and I thought, Bunny's crazy. I mean, I thought in a good way, but I thought there's and I'm not gonna lie, there's no way this is gonna happen because this just seems way too big and it seems way too expensive and way too difficult. And this is what I tend to do sometimes. I'm like limiting God because God could do anything. And you know, Bunny's story is such a cool story because she, and I just want to mention this because it's part of it's part of this. She ran for Congress, she lost, yes, okay, and she lost in the primary to another Republican, and it was kind of an ugly scenario, like it always is. And a lot of people they're angry after they lose. And Bunny found herself praying for this opponent, and she ended up she wasn't in debt. Her campaign was, but apparently he had even though he won the primary, he was in debt and he needed to raise money to clear that up. So Bunny went and held a fundraiser for the opponent who beat her. And I mean, that part for me of her story was I mean, look, what kind of person does that? I mean, a Christian should do it, but like it's wild. And so this is the same person who's been called in to Christians Engage, which is her nonprofit she started, and she has been called to encourage Christians to pray and to engage in politics. And this America reads the Bible effort was her latest sort of idea. And again, I thought it was crazy. And to stand there and watch that her devotion to the Lord, he honored it and he glorified his name through her obedience, right, was so powerful for me because I can't emphasize it cost millions of dollars to do a project like this and to bring us all together the way she did.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

And it's not all paid off yet either. Right. So for those that care, Christiansengage.com, she will accept donations to help fund this, but also the fact that Pure Flix, right, covered it. It's now going to be available forever and perpetuity online. So for me in the morning, I'll get up and I'll put on like my audible. I have lots of different Bibles I've downloaded. Sometimes it's fun having like, you know, like different voices or chronological whatever else. And I like having it downloaded because then I don't have to have service to listen to it, whatever. But I thought, you know what, this next year, I'm I'm listening to this one where I can listen to all my friends that are reading through the Bible. That'd be a really good idea. So every morning I'm brushing my teeth, boom, I'm I'm pressing play on this. But again, the fact that that God called somebody to do this, and look what God did something so much bigger than the person involved that only God, I mean, this is like the Gideon moment, right? Where God's like, no, I can't let you have too much because then you might take credit for it. And at the end, we need everybody to know it was me that did it. That is this event, and it's we were honored to be part of it. So many of our friends were there. Incredible. It was absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:40

And it and it left me with this thought of am I obeying enough? Do it like this is why like pulling back and not caring. When I say not caring, it doesn't mean not actually caring, it means not caring about what I want and actually asking what he wants and aligning my wants to his. And I think that Bunny has done that so well, and it was such a great example. And you're right, it just leaves people this amazing resource forever. I mean, America's literally reading the Bible and it was everywhere in the headlines. Yes, I mean, it was just incredible to watch and it was inspiring to watch. So that would be the gods. I mean, God came through in such an amazing way.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

So for people that want to read more, obviously CBN, but you have articles all over. But where can they go to follow and learn more about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:19

Yeah, so you can go to BillyHollowell.com and I'm on every social media channel as Billy Hollowell. Um, and I would encourage people to check the film out, cbn.com forward slash supernatural, and would love to hear feedback. I've got a lot of people going to BillyHollowell.com writing letters about their experience. I want to hear it. If you've had you know an angelic experience, a demonic one, if you've had a miracle, we want to hear those stories. So encourage us, tell us, and help me do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:42

Okay, so last questions I always ask everybody. Um I'm gonna tell you the first one so you can think about it. So I'm gonna ask what's your favorite Bible verse in a minute so you can process that for a second. But also, what is a piece of advice that you would give? So whoever's watching, right? It's kids, moms, dads, boys, girls, grandma, grandpa, what's a piece of advice you would give to encourage people?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:02

Okay. So the piece of advice I'll start with, um I would say this don't discount the power of prayer. And it seems cliche and simple. I think a lot of us we pray like we're checking off a box every day, and we're supposed to pray without ceasing. And that's something I've been really convicted of because even with my prayer walks, I have not been praying all day without ceasing. And it doesn't mean it's every second of the day, but like all the big decisions we make, we need to be praying through. But the people in our lives who are in need, there were a couple people even, and maybe they're not people in your lives, maybe there are people you're watching in the media who are frustrating you, or maybe there's a celebrity who does something horrible and you're like, that was horrific. We often get mad about it, but we don't actually pray for those people. Come on. And so I like I'm trying to look at prayer because it is, it's not like I'm trying to, it's a powerful tool. It changes absolutely everything. Why are we not exercising it in the ways that we're called to do? That's my advice. So, your grandkids, your kids, you know, your your loved ones, the people you're estranged from, a lot of us are. We have those. Issues. You got to pray for those people and not be overtaken by an anger that prevents you from doing that. And then I can't just pick one verse. I have to say all of John 3, because that chapter, obviously, everybody knows John 3:16, right? For God's love of the world, but that chapter, that interaction between Jesus and Nicodemus, yeah, it is one of the most powerful conversations in all of Scripture with him coming at night, Jesus. You know, why is he coming at night? Interesting, you know. This Jewish leader, though, so intrigued, and then hearing that you need to be born again. And you can't be born, you can't go back in your mother's womb again. Like, what are you talking about? And Jesus just explaining that that death to self and that life for him, that is the core. I always tell people, like, where do I start? I'm like, well, start with the book of John, but just start with John three, the whole entire thing. Like, read that chapter and then work your way back because it will tell you everything you need to know about what it means to be saved, what it means to have eternal life.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

So, homework assignment, go read John chapter three. Billy, thank you so much for taking time. Thank you. This is so much to hang out. It's so great. So, everybody, thank you for hanging out, taking time to listen to Billy's story. Encourage you, go to BillyHollowell.com, check out the stuff on CBN. I actually have seen some. I'm gonna go watch the rest of it because I'm so intrigued and I want to encourage you. Part of what he's been talking about, that the foundation for us as Christians, he said, man, make sure don't underestimate the value of prayer. But also, I would actually encourage even the recognition of the supernatural. We talked a lot about Ephesians 6, and and where the Bible tells us we don't wrestle just against flesh and blood, that there's something spiritual happening. We are far more spiritual than most of us realize. And I would encourage you, like he said, you ought to ask yourself, God, do you have more for me? And lean into that. If your quick answer is no, you're wrong. He always has more for you. Pray about it and see if God challenges you or leads you into more for him. Thanks for hanging out with us today on the American Story Podcast.