Episode 18: Should we kink-shame Kristi Noem's husband?

Kate and EB discuss the ethics of kink-shaming Kristi Noem's husband. We look at research, online discourse, and examine our own opinions about the value of mocking ICE Barbie's bimbo-fied husband online.

Sources:

• 10 Things You Shouldn’t Be Ashamed of in the Bedroom (Ferguson, 2025)
• SNL Skit
• The Bimbofication Fetish Explained By Experts (Foster, 2026)
• In South Dakota, Neighbors Feel Sorry for Kristi Noem’s Husband (New York Times, 2026)

Questions? Compliments? Criticisms? Email us at: truefriendspod@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

People are having way less sex. Like Gen Z is having way less sex. I know. They're they're so scared and they so want to avoid being cringe. And to have sex, you have to embrace being cringe. A little bit. Yeah. Like at least You have to be pretty sincere. You can't like sarcasm your way through it. No. Believe me. And write every hat in the book. Welcome to True Friends, an everyday ethics podcast where we discuss the complexities of the decisions we all have to make. From beauty standards to politics, we're bringing you our hot take to hot debate. We might not always agree, but we'll give you our honest opinions the way true friends do. I'm Evie, a part-time writer, full-time lesbian, and drag king curious. Oh, we'll come back to that. And I'm Kate, licensed therapist, first-time mom, and text avoidant. That is true. Sometimes like group will text. Yeah. I just like I can't multitask. And so, like, if someone texts me while I'm working, I will I wish I was like that. I'll see it and then I'll like put my phone down and then I'll not open my text again until the next morning. Yes, I know. I feel if if I had more anxious attachment, it would be tough to be friends with you. Yeah, I actually think it has hurt some friendships, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's not so much in this case that my feelings are hurt, so much as that I just want attention. A response, yeah. Yeah, hello, I sent you a haircut. What do you have to say? Well, I'm responding at 6 a.m. when my baby wakes me up, and then you won't hear me hear from me again until the next business day. And by that time I'm usually over it. Yeah. So I hope that we keep recording this because this is our main form of communication. That is true. I know it's so sad, actually. But it wouldn't be true if you responded to my text. Okay, okay, I'll try. I'll start sending you voice notes in the morning and then and then you can respond to it. And you can just recap the 12 things that I've Yeah, exactly. And I'll give you a brief recap of my day. I I really appreciate that. Yes. Um, but let's go back to Drag King Curious. Do you have like an avenue on which you're gonna explore this? Oh no, I don't actually have any plans to explore this. Just your current wardrobe. It could be fun. Well, yes. I think I would want to be what kind of like what era would I do? I think is the big question. Is that like the how it's done? Like era like yeah, you know, people will be like a pirate or like uh I mean with drag queens, like sometimes they're like a celebrity. Yeah, that's how I think of drag queens. Would you mirror? Mmm. Mirror? Yeah. Who? What? I have no idea. Why are you saying the word mirror? Like like mirror image, like how would you like mirror them? Oh, who? That's what I'm I'm I was just completing the sentence for you. Oh, the question that you're I'm gonna be Owen Wilson as a channel. No! Not good. Uh I feel like there's better options. There's gotta be better options. I feel like we talked about your like sun, moon, rising celebrities one week. Yeah, I don't know. What about John Krasinski? Yeah. Actually, you know, you're the second person to bring him up to me this week. Somebody said I was being John, what, Jim Halpert? Oh, no, I boo. I don't like Jim Halpert, but yeah. Oh, really? Why don't you like Jim Halpert? I just feel like he's like every medium ugly boy. No, in the in the office. Yeah. So in the office, he's very attractive. But in the office, um, in my opinion, um, he's like medium ugly, does the bare minimum kind of guy, negs his wife all the time. That's true. And I'm just like, ugh, like you can tell a man wrote this. Yeah. Um and thought that this is what the epitome of attractive was. I have to tell you that I tried to go to a Buddhism meeting this week and I almost joined a cult. Well, it wouldn't be the first time. I know, and and I uh thankfully, I took my girlfriend with me and she was like, Let's Google this. And we were in the parking lot. She saved your ass. She saved my ass. Yeah. We were in the parking lot and she was like, hey, Reddit's saying that this is a poll. Do you want to just go get dinner instead? A true queen. I know. Yeah. I know. I really would be lost without her, but I was sad because I'm trying to reconnect to a spiritual practice, and this I thought that this guy that I met on Facebook Marketplace was a real just, you know, he seemed really chill and like. Facebook Marketplace cannot be your holy Bible. Like, you gotta- Everything good that's happened to me has happened through Facebook Marketplace. I I can't deny that it is one of the only platforms through Meta that I uh value. Yes. But I re-deleted my Instagram, by the way. Not again. I'm gonna let it expire this time. It's over. Oh, you they like release your account name if you So yeah, if you delete your account, they basically give you 30 days to and it's so hard not to recover it in 30 days. And they know that. And you have a good handle. Fuck, why are you bringing that up? What if we need to monetize? Well, we're not gonna monetize just with my handle. I know, but like you have the biggest following. Anyways, let's go back to the book. But my big following is on TikTok, where I have the same handle, and I posted a clip of our podcast, and I was like, dang, we need to film the podcast, but we would have to get cute. We would what are you trying to say? You look like John Krasinski. Like Yeah, we are called medium ugly. Anyway, why don't you just introduce we gotta finish your Buddhism journey? And so where okay, where do we land now? I guess right now I'm like I have to practice spirituality alone, and trying to join any kind of organized group is just beyond me. I feel like you would have learned that when you left the church originally. I know, I did, but then I was like coming back around and I was like, I missed the community aspect, yeah. And I have not been checking signal by the way. I completely like got so overwhelmed by it. I got really overwhelmed that I just backed out of it. I just gotta ask for the Google link to sign up for the grocery order thing. I I think I'm just gonna give up and I I don't know. No, we can do it together. We'll help. Let's recommit. Anyways, I think that Buddhism on your own maybe is the right journey for now. The whole point is that Okay, but people who want to go to those things are oh, they're all weird. You might have a Facebook marketplace. Like everybody's weird. Everybody is weird, but there's like a like cult weird, and there's just like a run-of-the-mill weird, you know. Yeah, medium weird people at work are medium weird. Right, right. But like they go home and watch like reality TV and then regular people, like regular people, and then other people go to their Buddhist meetups. What do you think about Reiki? I actually am kind of interested in it. Yeah, what do you think about it? The only person I've met who practiced Reiki wasn't like freaked to the max. Really? So I it's kind of big in like therapy sculpture.

unknown 7:03

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Yeah. I don't know. I think you hang out. I think you feel you don't even smoke a joint. Um I feel like if it works for you, it works for you, you know? Like if you get some Ricky done and you feel good as a result, then like awesome. Love that. Keep going. Um, I know a lot of people who pair it with acupuncture, also, so I have two more things I need to tell you. Okay. But that was the end of my it wasn't? No, it was. Okay, great. Yeah. One, um, also, I know I gotta stop mentioning my girlfriend every episode, but she's gonna get annoyed. That's between you and her. That's not personal information about it. Yeah. But she did tell me that because I have a mirror facing sort of angled towards my bed and a closet door open near my bed, that they sort of look inside that I was opening a portal. Oh, and leaving myself vulnerable to an open portal. It is a bad feng shui to do that. There's just not a lot of places to put stuff. I Yeah. Do you have to have a mirror in your room? Do you put it like No, but where else would I put my full-length mirror? You don't have one that can go on like the back of a door? Uh, not since not since I became an adult. I know it is kind of like dorm room. Yeah, dorm room vibes. And then the other thing I need to tell you is Oh yeah, I had my tarot read for the first time by my friends. Oh. Amateur tarot. And I it was a very overwhelming experience. I've had my tarot read three times. And I've loved every experience of it. And did were they right? One of them, well, it was actually the same woman every time. Um was it? Was it like past, present, future? No, it was oh, like was each one past, present, future? Yes. Um, these all happened in the past. I thought you were asking like was the first one the past and the second one the present and the third one the future. Like each one. Because we did like the three cards. One is the last, one is the present, one is the future. Yeah, what you did. Yes. Um did it help your life? Well the first time she told me I was a witch, and then I might start reading minds.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Oh the last thing you needed to hear.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Go to my. I was like, well, little do you know I already read mine. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually why I became a therapist. Um, but the other two times, I'm not gonna lie, I don't really remember what she said. Um so I think I think the only main takeaway was like, you're on the right career path. Right. But I was like, well, now I'm trying to do this podcasting thing, so is this the right career path? So are you reading my mind? Yeah. Okay, I think that's all I have for now. I guess we can get into the topic. Okay. So this week we are talking about kink shaming. Dun dun dun. Um it wasn't already obvious, this podcast is not for children. So yeah. In fact, this podcast is kind of on the record anti-children. Yeah. No, you are on the record as anti-children. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not. Not against yeah. Not against children. Don't. Don't. Please stop. Stop. Or if you're listening in the car with a child. It's never too late to be aborted. Yeah. That's called something else. Um I don't know. I think if my mom unlived me right now, as they say on TikTok, I would just be like, okay, abortion. Really, really late abortion. I don't believe it. We can discuss it in another podcast. You can dream. This week's topic. It's it's ever too late for abortion. Okay. Um, so I have assigned us both an artifact or facts, um, and I will be stating my opinion on the ethics of this topic. I will be disagreeing with your opinion and playing devil's advocate, whether or not I secretly agree with you. Also, multiple people got mad at you in the last time and texted me and were like, I was so mad at Kate. I know. I was like, amazing. And then I posted on TikTok trying to get clickbait. And people also got mad. Yeah, they're like, who do you think you are? I'm like, I know, right? I know. And I would like to remind the audience that hold reserve your anger for the end of the episode. Yeah. Yeah. And you can be pissed. Then you can email us at true friendspod at gmail.com. But also, please get to the end of the episode before you make your final opinion. Don't just turn the episode off. And one day when we have ads, don't skip the ads. No, please don't skip the ads. That actually will probably make you the angriest out of all the things that we have to say on the podi. I get irrationally angry when ads come on my podcast. No, me too. I'm like, shut the fuck up. I don't care about Carvana. Especially some of them, like two days to Mike, will have some right wing, no right wing ads. Like, I've gotten military ads on their podcast before. Wait, on what platform are you watching? Spotify. Spotify. Weird. Really? And they have different ads though. They talk about it on the uh on the pod, and they mention like we are not in control ads. Like that is all done by like I know. There is no ethical consumption. Yeah. So, anyways. And pr there's no fucking ethical production either. No. Anyways, I we will try our absolute best to never advertise things that anus. Like the military? Like the literally like the military. We should do an episode on the military. I know. I do respect veterans. I want to be clear about that. I mean, of course, yeah, sure. Some of them. Did you actually get injured? Well, no, not like that. But like what are why did you go into the military? I mean, we all, again, we're all a part of a cult in some way or another. Yeah. The cult of America. We gotta get out. Anyways. We can't get out. We have to stay because we're white people. And we made this bed and we're gonna lie. I know. We really truly made the bed. It's like hard to overcome masochism when you're like, wait, this is actually perfect term. I have to think of a masochism kink. Isn't that is it not just your white guilt kink? Uh let's I would rather we not call it that, but let's note that that would be good for the cold open. 14 minutes in white guilt kink. Okay, anyways. We are discussing Christy Gnome's husband. I also want to reiterate that I will be referring to him as Christy Gnome's husband. No, no. We don't want to learn his name. No. Well, his name is Bri Brian Byron. Now I think I spelled it wrong. You are not great at spelling. No, I'm not. Did you hear people say, I guess Christy didn't really know him? That's a good line. I will I'll give it to them. Yeah. Um shout out to the internet. But, anyways, if you have not seen it, which I can't imagine, if you're listening to this podcast, you are you are in the know. But maybe not though, because my friend Jess didn't l uh watch Mormon Wise and she still listened to the episode. I was like, did it make any sense? She was like, not completely. Fair enough. Not an episode for everybody. Recent headlines have shown his bimbo location and paying for online sex chats. This came out after she was fired, correct? Yes. Yeah. Which is interesting. And I think it came out on like Transvisibility Day or something like that. Shut up. It did not. I think so. You can Google it if you want. I am no, I'm checking how to spell his name correctly. Um it's Bry Okay. His name is Brian. It's B R Y O N. Brian. Brian. Oh, you know, you know he likes dirty hands. You know his white ass parents who are trying to be a little spicy and Brian. Maybe they just can't spell. That's that's how they chose to spell Brian over all the other options that there are. Brian. Intiways. So what is King Shane? Also, what are sex chats? I have like online platforms where you like pay people to like have a sexual conversation with you. Yeah. It's sad you can't get that for free, but I mean, isn't that what omega was back in the day? Omega? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about? Yes. But they were they were like sex chats? Well, they were like age sex language, and I feel like that is the reason they were asking.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

They were like, what?

SPEAKER_03 15:46

ASL? Age sex sex language. Age sex language? Yeah. What is that? Or location, maybe? I can't remember. They were that would be how a lot of oh mango chats started. And I think they were like trying to confirm like, are you illegal? Are you a minor? Right. Um and then like literally what is your sex? So some people would like pretend to be like the opposite gender on those chats. Have you seen that video clip of Megan Fox talking about how she when she was 15 and she was in that movie with that fucking director, what's his name? And they made her like stand under a waterfall, and like it's just like it sh sends a shiver down my spine, but it's just about how we like sexualize minors. Minors why did you think about that right now? Yeah, I did. I think about that because you said they were trying to keep minors off, and I was like that was that was where you went versus Yeah. I was like, we got a lot of ample con like ample evidence for other things right now. Well that video was on my mind. Okay, anyways. Um, so king shaming is the act of mocking, judging, or morally condemning consensual sexual interests that fall outside what society considers quote unquote normal. It often reflects broader social discomfort with non-traditional expressions of sexuality. I might need to read that again. Basically, king shaming is saying you are doing the sexual thing that's consensual, and I don't like it. Broader social discomfort with non-traditional expressions of sexuality. Right. So like traditional sexuality is a heterosexuality, number one. And then like just very traditional vanilla sex. So missionary only. Right. Yeah. That's the Lord intended. Ah, so Lord No, the Lord intended the what is it, the Mormons do shaking the bed.

unknown 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

I don't want to talk about that. Yeah. I know. But sometimes I remember penises and I'm like must be nice. Um but it's scary when I think of it though. But I mean, they are a little bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I live with only boys right now. The phrase don't kink shame entered the cultural mainstream. The zeitgeist. The zeitgeist through social media, dating apps, podcasts, and like other online platforms. Um, we saw an increase with this in along with the sex positivity movement. So don't kink shame me. Right. As like we are, in my opinion, still heading towards a more sex positive environment world. You think we're currently heading toward a more sex position? I think long term, yes. I think we're in a regression right now. But I think the overall session regression. Recession regression. Yeah. Overall, like long term, we're gonna be more sex positive and we're still on that trajectory. But I'm not sure, but okay. I think so. I have hope. I feel like people are getting more homophobic lately. I think so too, but I think it is because of the transphobia that the Trump administration has been majorly pushing. I know. And now it's starting to extend into homophobia. Um, but I also think a fun fact I learned, or not so fun fact, depending on who you are, people are having way less sex. Like Gen Z is having way less sex. I know. They're they're so scared, and they so want to avoid being cringe, and to have sex you have to embrace being cringe. Okay, a little bit. Yeah. Like at least You have to be pretty sincere. You can't like sarcasm your way through it. No. Believe me. And whatever you had in the book. Anyway. Kink shaming, I get it. Okay, cool. I do think it's like also relevant because it brings into like larger conversations around consent and sexual abuse, feminine, feminism.

unknown 19:38

Feminine.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

And people tend to debate whether kink shaming is harmful or has some validity as a social critique. So like whether like we should shame people. I've seen people say that lately. So bring back shame. I'm like, I never uh I never stopped shaming actually. Um I do think that like there are areas I think shame is valuable. Right. Um it exists for a reason. Right. We'll get into it in this episode, but so far I don't really think that like kink shaming is one of those things that are valuable. Um we'll talk about it. So I disagree. I think kink shaming is extremely valuable. It's great. Yeah, keep that away from me. Okay, I'll tell your girlfriend. Do that in your own house. You freaks. So what kinks? Man on woman? Okay. Not in front of me, please. Not in my house.

unknown 20:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:39

Um, what kinks are you aware of? Oh. This feels like gotcha journal this time. This feels like the reason you said don't worry about reading the outline. I'm actually sending this to your job. Oh. Oh, I okay. Um kinks I know about well, I know like the basic I know there's there's like BDSM, right? So like bondage and what's the D for, man? Bondage, domination. Well, it's but the D has something else. Uh there's like a Anyway, and then it's like dominance and submission, sadomasochism. Mm-hmm. Bondage and anyway, so I know about those. And then I know I I sometimes get confused about the difference between a kink and a fetish, but I also know that there's like furry that's a fetish, though. Is that I thought that was a kink. I think I'm when I was preference. When I was like kind of like looking into it, it seemed like they were kind of in the same vein, if not the same sometimes, like used interchangeably. Um I think a fetish is like a huge preference, and a kink is like an act of that. A kink is an unconventional sexual preference behavior or role play like BDSM that enhances. Pleasure while a fetish is a strong, often necessary sexual focus on a specific, typically non-sexual object or body part for gratification. Okay, cool. So a fetish is like there's this episode of Bob's burgers where this like the grandpa admits that he has a fetish of like women sitting on balloons. I know, it's pretty weird, but anyway, it's not really a word, but a fetish is it's like, oh, well, you wouldn't think that balloons are sexual. Right. So it's like that's pretty weird and specific. Well, it's like foot fetishes, right? Or like huge. Right. Like that is like big in the community. Big and like one of the main fetishes. Do you know why that is? Do you want to learn a fun fact? Another fun fact. I guess. So the reason that is is that the part of your brain that is like related to feet is next to the pleasure center in your brain. And so like the part that's related to feet. There's no foot part of the brain. But like controls your feet. I mean, there's like, yeah, but it's like muscle control overall, right? It's not like foot specific. I think it is, but I learned this in psychology class. Oh my god. Okay, say it again. So the the the part of your brain that like controls or deals with your feet is next to the heart. I can't take it seriously. You start laughing before I get to the heart. It's next to the pleasure center in your brain. Alright. So often those like neurons will like get entangled and like feet. Neurons get entangled. Yeah. All this sounds completely fake. I'm maybe not using the correct language, but like that is why there's sure. I that just sounds like such a fake explanation. I mean, ask the neuroscientist. I don't know. I will if I see one. Anyways, fetish versus kink. We got there. Kink is something I think though that can be acted upon of a fetish, right? Because it's like bimbi. Yeah, but I don't think they're necessarily related. They don't have to be, but the bimbification part that we're talking about, it seems like those two are related to where like there's a fetish of there's a fetish around the roleplay of the kink. So like the the exact definition of bimbification is a sexual fetish and roleplay kink that involves the deliberate transformation of oneself or a partner into an exaggerated, hyper-feminine, and often over-sexualized persona known as a bimbo. Yes, I've heard of them. Yes. They've actually got me to come back on top of it. Yeah. Um, it is a form of I'm pro-bimbo. Me too. Okay, then I'm anti-bimbo.

unknown 24:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:57

It is a form of consensual objectification, often focused on creating a Barbie-like aesthetic involving specific clothing, makeup, and behaviors, frequently accompanied by an at least theatrical persona of being dim-witted. Yes, like Trisha Paytas. Like Trisha Patis, but like, is hers fake? Well, who can say? She's making a lot of money, so whatever she's doing, she's doing it well. Yeah. I mean, it gets into like what is a bimbo, you know. That's a whole rabbit hole we don't need to go down right now. I mean, I do think that like what's happening on TikTok is like the reclaiming of that term a little bit, but like I do think this term is generally like anti-feminist. Um the term bimbo? Yeah. I disagree. You can't- that's not how this episode is gonna work, you know. You can't just say I disagree every time I say a statement with a period. Um no, I am disagreeing. I think bimbo is feminist. How? Because, like you said, these young women are reclaiming it. It's like how slut can be feminist. Yeah, I think they're reclaiming it, but I think traditionally this term has been used to like demoralize, dehumanize women. Okay. Yeah. This is not the part you have to disagree with, I promise. Right. Yeah. There's gonna be more.

unknown 26:21

Alright.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Okay, here we go. Okay, so the first point I want to make is that we can use humor around kinks without it being shaming. Disagreeing. Alright, we're gonna end this episode real quick. So we're gonna- Okay, we can use humor around kinks without it being shaming. That's your ethical stance. Correct. And we're gonna play a quick clip from Anne's mouse skit um around Bryan um using this vivation uh kink, and we'll play it now.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Hello everyone! Hello, Michael.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

Hey Mena.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

What? What? Hey!

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Hey! Hey!

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Hey, hey! Yeah, hey Michael!

SPEAKER_01 27:14

How are you?

SPEAKER_00 27:14

My eyes are up here and apples are out of here. That's a minor mind button, huh? Scared to share.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

I didn't say anything.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Good. Good. Because I dare you all. I dare you all to find one thing that's comical about this whole situation. I dare you, I dare you, I dare you to make a joke about my big, beautiful bloom breast. I dare you, Michael! Hey! Hey, Michael! I dare you to kink shame me on national TV about my insane clown jungle and tiny, teeny little pink bike shorts.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Nah, man, I got nothing to say.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Not all. So coming from the skit, I do think first and foremost, I want to say it's not that funny. Yeah, it's not their best work for sure. I mean, they haven't been doing their best work for a long time, but that's the whole SNL rabbit hole. We don't need to eat. Yeah. And if you guys are listening to this, I said what I said. I disagree. Okay. So the reason though I like pick this skit though is because they like they talk about two things. One, that they are intentionally avoiding like kink shaming um by not by, but like most outlets are like avoiding kink shaming, they're avoiding kink shaming, they're like testing the waters of like, oh, like I know everyone wants us to kink shame right now, but like don't derail us from the like main topic around this. Yeah, I mean, don't you think that they that they are kink shaming though? I I think what else is funny about that skit if not ha ha kink shaming. Well, I think the the part that is so funny in my opinion, and I what I took away from the skit is that like the huge irony of like a Christinome, I think, in some ways like modeling this bimboism herself. And then because she's like filled for She's literally called Barbie, like they call her Barbie. Oh, really? Ice Barbie. They call her Ice Barbie. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's really upsetting. Yeah. Okay. And also, do you know they have grandparents? Whose grandparents? Christy and Byron are grandparents. It's Brian. Why am I supposed to care about that? I was just shocked. Because they're old? I didn't think they were that old. I mean, everybody's a grandparent. I'm a grandparent. In your heart, like to who? To many people. Okay. To my students' babies. Honestly, low-key. Don't you think? Yeah. Does that make you a grandparent? I think you're more of an auntie, but um. And I also think that like just like the whole ridicule around her of like how much the entire world hates her, like even conservatives hate her.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

Um, and like this is yet like another thing that is coming out around her, and like they are making fun of him for sure, but they're really making fun of her. And I think, like, is Christy Noah Bimbo? I don't think they're making fun of her being a bimbo. I think they're just making fun of her. Like, you're you're literally such a hateful person, like you deserve what's coming to you. Yeah, but why are we enjoying like laughing at this, but this, like, in instead of focusing on how horrible she is. I I I don't disagree with that. I part of me, dude, feels like it's still like just laughing at women. Maybe that's crazy. Maybe that's too woke. Maybe it's not woke enough. I I can see where you're going, but I do think that's like a bit of a stretch with this particular instance. Um, I think that like I agree it's ironic. It's a very ironic. The irony is obviously not lost. Yeah, and also to be fair, with like the amount of like anti-trans rhetoric from this administration, the fact that their her husband is like basically partaking in cross-dressing. Can I tell you part of what bothers me? Yeah, is that I feel like at the end of the day queer people are those still the butt of this joke. I I want to get to our second point and come back to that, but that's my thesis. I I would traditionally say yes. Traditionally, yeah. Okay. But like I think that I think in this instance, like, people feel bad for him and are like and are and are like not.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

I don't maybe I'm on Why do they feel bad for him?

SPEAKER_03 32:33

Yeah, maybe on a different side of social media, but like I don't see people shaming him, making fun of him. Like, I see people continuously coming back to her and being like, literally, you deserve this, and that like the irony is too great to not laugh at. Okay, yeah. And so, like, I do think the SML skit does that. Um I definitely think that like also importantly, like, we need to have humor in sex and like with within kinks as well, because I think that helps us like normalize both sexual acts and the kinks. Like, I think that is a way that we can have like more sexual liberation. Kind of like how people make fun of how being gay is funny. Okay, I I see your thesis. That's hilarious, two dudes boning. I think that like Does that bring us closer to sexual liberation? But I think the difference is like people as a whole engage in sex, and like people not anymore. Not anymore, sure, it's on the decline, but like I think that like we all partake in sex, so therefore, like to make fun of it is so broad that we're not targeting a specific group. I will say, I will say, my caveat to all of this is do you remember the army hammer? Yeah, like kink stuff. Yeah, that was really scary. I wish you wouldn't have brought that up. I know. That was really scary. I know. I'm not gonna go too much into it, but there was like some like drinking blood, cannibalism stuff, and like drinking blood. What are you trying to say? Not having kings review right now. Just cut this. Yeah. But that's a Megan Fox and uh what's his name? They drink each other's blood. Right. Yeah. Because they're really in love. I mean, that's the only way you can prove it. Um, anyways, Army Hammer, I mean he like he's done. Like, he didn't come back from that. Oh yeah, he is done. Like, hey man, that was really gross. Way too far. We're done with the event. Because even like people who I know who are like very sex positive were like, we can't justify this. Yeah, I think there was also some like real questionable issues of consent there. Consent and like once again, like treating women as objects and um dehumanizing them. So like I think it was more than just a kink, but um, I'm curious if that part hadn't been there, if just like the like cannibalism fetish was there, or kink, I guess, was there, if people could have come around to it. I don't know. For me, I will say that it's like one kink that I'm like, um I can't I actually can't justify this, and like I'm not gonna try to. Yeah, I'm not sure. There's there is definitely, I always think when it comes to these like shame, not shame conversations, like we have to focus on harm and who's being harmed. Um, and that's part of where I try to like ground myself in those conversations. Yeah, and your argument that is that like with kinks and kings cannibalism is harm. That's what your point around like the harm of mimification is that like it hurts queer people because like they're once again being made like if we use humor with bimification, like they become like the butt of the joke. Yes, not to not to make a joke out of the butt, they become the giant tits of the joke. Yeah, um it's really hard not to laugh. I know so there is that, yeah. Um I I just again think that like straight people participate in this kink, like queer people probably participate in this in this kink. Like, if we're as a universal audience participating in a kink, we can use humor, and I think more importantly, like we should use humor. But I don't think that a lot of people I don't think a bimbo k uh fetish is mainstream, it's not mainstream, but like I don't think that only straight people or only queer people are participating in a bimbo fetish. Okay, yeah, okay. Yeah, and I also like do you think Brian is straight? Probably not. I think that's why like And why don't you think he's straight? Well, what is like first of all, what is straight? Like it's like straight after all. Because like people, some people would say that like being part of the kink community makes you not straight. Would you say that? Is being if you're just kinky, are you a member of the LGBT community? I'll be honest, I don't care. The whole point of this podcast is for us to discuss. Just like, I don't Okay. Alright, we don't care. Yeah, let's drop it. Let's move on. Okay, let's move on. But all that being said, is that like I I think that whether or not he's straight has actually not been a part of the conversation, like the social discourse, okay. So that's not part of it. At least from what I've seen online. Maybe again, maybe other algorithms are bringing that up, but it in my algorithm it has not come up. I've it's come up in my algorithm. Okay, I believe that. Yeah. What does it say? Well, I guess it's more so about gender, so that would be the you know, that part of the community. And how men, these conservative women marry these gay men that have to perform masculinity and dominance all day long, and at the end of the day, they just wanna be what they misogynistically believe that women are, which is like a dumb slut to who just wants to get railed or whatever. I I was gonna say that like I think ironic again, the irony of all of this is that like it's still sexist. Like that's yes, like that's the deployment of him. Of him, yeah. Like, I think at the end of the day, like so you so is that kink shaming? You're saying the limiteds are sexist? I don't think the kink itself is a problem. I think his ideology is a problem. So his ideology combined with the kink, like who you are you saying who it might depend on who performs the kink and whether or not it's problematic? Yes. Or I'm asking if you're saying that so you can disagree or not. So I can get clearer on your stance. I haven't decided if I'm gonna disagree or not. Maybe I'll agree. I will I think it goes back to the conversation about harm. So like if there's harm done in the kink. So like, oh, like have you seen euphoria? Yeah. So like an example there that's more, I guess, of a fetish than maybe a kink. But like the dad being only wanting to sleep. I know. Like that dad only wanting to sleep with transgender women. Yeah. Um like I think that's humble because I think that like that is like fetishizing an identity without respect or value to that identity. I think, yeah, I think overall fetishes are not necessarily morally neutral. Like having an Asian fetish doesn't just because it's a fetish, doesn't make it morally neutral. Correct. So sorry, I think we do agree on that. Yes. I think do we then I think we have to separate like kinks where I think that feels hard for me to like figure out the nuances. Um, it seems like sometimes they they do go. Yes, they're separate, but not always and kinks are like I respect the kink community first and foremost. First and foremost. Yeah. So I think there must be a difference in my mind because there are some fetishes that I'm judgmental of. But for the most part, I do not think I don't believe in kink. And I think that like kinks can be very like a healthy sexuality. So when then we we bring humor into it, that's where we are But who's bringing humor into it? Humor isn't part of is humor part of Brian's expression here? Is he being a bimbo humorously? Or are you talking about the humor of not for my not he's not being humorous for my bad humor when making these points? Um but people are using humor to I think make fun of the situation. Yes, I would agree. Which therefore, though, also does bring humor to the kink. Like I think there's a a level of of which people are making fun of the kink because it is a a kink. I in my opinion, it's a funny kink. Like it is like there's something humorous about it. Yeah, and I don't think it's bad to have humor in in a kink or in sex, and I also therefore don't think it's bad to use humor around kinks or around sex. I think when it becomes targeted around like you can't be taken, like your identity cannot be valued or taken seriously. Yeah, that is. I think it feels okay because it's punching up and we're like Christy Noah's evil, like a dogpiling on this man is no problem. But what I wonder is like with, for example, like people making fun of Trump and how he looks and stuff, right? And they're like, he's fucking ugly, bad, disgusting, blah blah blah. And it's like, is that good? Because there are good people who might look like that, who might look like that, who are hearing that message that like that's what's bad about him. And so that's what I wonder about this. Where it's like, are we saying like this is why um she's a joke? Because she was a joke before, right? But I think a lot of people would agree. And if that's if it's mostly about the irony of it, I think that is fair. Okay, but like to use humor around this kink in general, maybe isn't fair because then people will feel shamed. I think I just feel protective of like the gender queer community. Yeah. And so I'm like, what I don't want to do is normalize mocking queer people. Even if it's in service of like when people like are like, oh, like these Republicans are on grinder. Yeah, yes, I agree, that's funny and ironic. But it's also, I guess, I don't know, maybe I take it too seriously and I'm a killjoy, but I'm like, it is also sad, right? Like, there's all these closeted conservative men, and that's because of the shame around the identity and the mockery around the identity. So mocking it more doesn't feel like a great solution. Yeah, I think I think maybe where we disagree is that like I feel like if we were to normalize using humor, then eventually we would move away from human. And I feel like humor's always been a big part of humanity. Maybe. I mocking people. I think we wouldn't think we're gonna need to like say it is mocking really humor. But I d I do think that like On this point, humor can be a tool in which we normalize and we can disagree for the sake of disagreeing on this point right now and then come back at the end. Yeah. Okay. So point two is that even bad people don't deserve to be shamed slash outed on their kinks. So I think that Brian. Um you wrote Byron. I know because I kept thinking that it was Byron Byron, like Byron. Yes. Like in my head. That's what I kept reading. But so the New York Times article. The New York Times article, they did a piece actually like going around to his small town community in South Dakota. Um, and the title of the article is In South Dakota, Neighbors Feel Sorry for Christy Gnome's husband. I would like to point out they also just refer to him as Christy Gnome's husband in the title of this article. That's who he is. Um but the title of this should be Does Christy Gnome's husband deserve to be king shamed? That's a good one. Yeah. Okay. Just no one. Um so I was like really shocked actually reading this. Like they were extremely sympathetic to him. Sympathetic in what way? Like feeling bad for him. Like being like, you know, he's just a nice guy from our community. Like he didn't know. Feeling bad that he got exposed. Yes. Feeling bad for him that he hasn't been built fetish. Didn't talk to John that very much. Okay. So yeah. And this could have just been the select few people that they interviewed who were like willing to do the interview. So maybe there's more judgment in this community than depicted in the article. Right. Um, but I was like, again, very shocked by like how bad they felt for him. And honestly, like I was like, is this just because they hate Christy Gnome so much that they'll stick up for her husband because they feel bad that he's married to her? Or is it because they actually truly don't care that much about the kink and will go out of their way to defend it no matter what? This is not a point you have to disagree or agree with. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I also just wonder if, yeah, he is a sympathetic person because he's like a straight white man. So they're like, oh poor guy, why is he being blasted like this? No, they like we're singing his phrases in the article of him just being like a genuine guy. Um I'm like, there's no way you can't be married to Ice Barpie and just be a genuine guy. I'm sorry. Like, I just don't know. No, that's why it kind of yeah, that to me just feels like white respectability politics, middle America, you know. But I like I I kind of don't think that they really care that much about the fetish or kink. I believe that. Yeah. I think they probably like are like have their own kinks and like are maybe in the closet about some of those kinks. Um, and like it doesn't really matter to them that he's engaging in that. Also, no one was talking about the fact that he was like technically cheating on Chrissy No. Yeah. Um again, because like they just hate her, but there is major, major speculation that she's been having an affair with her advisor for like oh years. Like Congress questioned her on it. Um interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think at the end of the day, it's honestly like not that shocking that some conservative piece of shit woman's husband is like a weirdo. Yeah, I mean that probably all out a lot. Yeah. And there's way worse things that we need to be focused on, and maybe that's part of it too, is that at the end of the day, we need to be focused on like um the Epstein files and ice. Ice. And this feels like a distraction from that, and it feels like very like circus uh circus-y. And so I I'm like, I wanna laugh and be part of the memefication, but I also am like, guys, who cares? Like fucking shit is going down. But I feel like I'm always just that like little joy. You we can be both, right? Like we can be like this, and the over here is funny, and alright, close that book, like let's focus on what's going on. Yes. It doesn't have to be I don't think it has to be one or the other. You don't? I don't. Maybe I'm just an extremist. I you love the black and white, I won't deny. I do. Yeah. I do, and I'm honestly really upset that things aren't black and white, and I'm supposed to like deal with that. Well, bring it up for your therapist. Oh my god. She's got her work cut out for her. Well, you you love making her vision boards, so yes. They're not for her, they're for me. I think she probably appreciates that. I just want her to have the information. You love everyone to have all the information. About me? No, just about like what's going on, what's happening, how are things going. Like, just like the most the more details the better. Yes. Yes. Okay, let's get back. Um communication is key, guys. I do also think that like some people feel that both Christy Nome and Brian deserved this outing. Like, they're like, you are such terrible people that you got exactly what's coming to you. I'm glad you got outed, and like we should continue to quote unquote shame and do this. What will the actual consequences be? Nothing. I don't think there'll be anything. So they deserved what? They deserve dragged on the internet. That's the worst that's gonna happen to them. They deserve way worse than that. I think a lot of people think that shame is so painful that it I don't think it's yeah. I don't know, all like we don't I think if you were in the closet. She did get fired. She didn't get fired, and also like if you were in the closet about your identity or about like your kink, then like you are experiencing a lot of shame. If you can't be out with that, then like you already feel shame. Yeah, and so like people people will go down this road of like shame is one of the worst things that people can feel, so terrible people deserve to feel this. And like I I'm saying that like I don't think they deserve that, because to the previous point, like when we shame one kink done by one person, that one kink then applies to everybody, right? Like everybody starts to feel shame. Yeah, isn't that what I've been saying? No. Oh. Yeah. I I would agree with that.

unknown 50:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

I think in ultimately, I don't really want anyone to be outed, to be honest with you. And I don't really think the the tough thing about this is like he's not being outed for being gay or being trans. Like, he's very outed for something that is like just so visually comical. Mm-hmm. Do you think though that like there is like do you think they got what's coming a little bit? I guess I just would really like to see something more direct, like she gets removed from office and like put in jail. Like, I don't really care about her husband's balloon tits. Like, I I kind of want to just see her like go to prison. Sure. I I agree with you. I know you're prussian abolition. But in in the time and space that we live in, lock her up. Yeah. Yeah. Um lock her up. I know. I've never thought I would rebrand as things. Game up, dude. No, it's them all up. All of them. Off with their fucking heads. Throw it in. Yeah. And off with Byron's head. And he should not be allowed to be a bimbo because he can't be part of the fetish community because he's an evil overlord. And he should be locked up and shamed. So, like, if you were a bad person, you shouldn't partake in fetishes or kings? You don't get to, yes. We don't get to, because you're not supportive of the community. So it's like, would it kind of be like kissing girls when you're drunk, but you're not? Exactly. Exactly. And if you vote Republican, you don't get to kiss girls. Absolutely. Period. No matter your gender expression. First of all, that's in the Bible. First of all, that's in the Buddhism holy scriptures. I mean it's honestly hard to argue with you on that one. Really? But like I do think that people who maybe don't want to. Here's what I'll say. If you are going to say this, if you're going to express hate towards a community, but then partake in the kink, that makes you doubly bad. JD Vance should not be allowed to have near couches. Well, yes. He should not be allowed to sit on couches. Or to have a woman of color as his wife. Yeah, I will. I feel like people could write a book on that. Like I right? Like, am I wrong? In my heart, you're not wrong, but but it I mean it leads back to like internalized hatred of yourself. Um but maybe here's my counterpoint. Maybe this kink is also how they eventually stop being terrible people. I highly doubt that. I highly doubt that. Exposure to people different than you tends to broaden your perspective and your empathy. I say down with these hypocrites. Okay, let's wrap up this point here. Um, we fortunately already agreed on our last point is that we are giving too much attention to the kink. I I'm curious to your thought. Like, do you think that the release of this was intentional to distract from her firing? And you sometimes, yeah. I feel like these stories are engineered to get us, like, get the cultural conversation off and popping, and so we lose focus. It's a circus. I wouldn't have really thought about that except for our last episode with Taylor freaking ball and like the crisis PR. We still don't know, guys. We still don't know. This kind of feels like crisis PR where like she gets fired, and if she ever wants to be involved in politics ever again, we gotta immediately move the narrative away from her so that like she has an owl, you know. And maybe even give her something that'll make people like feel sympathetic. Except the it backfired so hard. Backfired pretty hard. They're like, oh, of course he has to do this because you're terrible. Yeah, which that's like I don't know. All right. All right, all right. Are you ready to reveal your real opinion? Yes, I am. Okay, I guess we'll kind of go in order. Okay. How do you truly feel about using humor for kinks? Overall, I think it is okay, but I'm hesitant. I am genuinely hesitant about something where it feels like queerness is at the butt of the joint. So I am still I'm still a little hesitant on what kind of I don't think making fun of stuff is just unilaterally healthy. Okay. That's fair. Do you think that using like humor and sex and kinks like could long-term normalize? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I actually got your point around like queer people being the butt of the joke, a lot of times within like the kink and sex humor area, like was a really good point. And it was one that like I did, I will say, like, I actually do agree with you on that as well. That being said, like, I've made fun of furries. Well, you remember our first episode? Like, I know I just said no no no Republicans, no furries, and here we fucking are. I know. I well, we have to get to cancel or come back, but okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. I I think that's interesting. We came to a little bit more as I was arguing it. I was like, wait, this actually gonna make sense. Um okay, so I think then like we maybe do agree like if it is harmful, harmful to a community, like it isn't okay to use humor. Yeah. Yeah. But no one's that's gonna be a very unpopular opinion. You think? Yes. Why? I think that people like to just make fun of and mock stuff when it's their opponent, no matter what. I also think people are like this is like the snowflake argument, right? Like, don't think everything's right. Personally, like it's a little too woke. Yeah, I don't disagree with that, but I do think there is like a line between like are we perpetuating perpetuating harm and like othering people versus like this is just a funny thing. Like I I kind of feel like this particular situation is more so that this is just a funny thing. This is a little bit of funny thing. It's like got to do with the it's got to do with the tits, I think. And well, I and again, like the Christinome of it. The Christin Gnome of it all, like love to see a bitch fall. Exactly. Like that, yeah. Like I think if this were some random celebrity, it would be a different story. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. Okay. Um, does it really matter who's performing the kink? No, I think I was arguing that it does, but I don't really think that's true. That like anybody can. Anybody can have access to kinks and fetishes, even if like and Christian or conservative people can be gay, like it doesn't actually work like that. Like, people are complicated. Yeah, I think people are complicated. I actually kind of do stand by that. I think can kinks can be liberating and could take someone who's really conservative and make them more liberal. Perhaps I think kinks is one way uh somebody could access a more liberated world. Yeah. Um, which is like food for thought around whoever's trying to convert these people. I don't know that that's like the avenue I would go to with the root. Sorry. Because I do think that there are plenty of very conservative people who are into very freaky sexual stuff, and that that's not always like a way to liberation. No, and it also like leads to sexual abuse and yeah. Right. I know, dude. It's like a really tangled web. It is very tangled. I mean, I think even when I think about some of like the BDSM stuff, I start to like get really nervous about like the power play of it all, and like the like the part where like it maybe leans into abusive dynamics, abusive dynamics or sexism and like pedophilia and like things like that. Like when you think about the traits that like a dominant versus submissive is supposed to have. I I want to respect that like in consenting adult relationships, people can do what they want, but then I also am like, okay, but what narratives are we re-reinforcing? Same thing with women's vocation, right? Like, what are we reinforcing? Women are just like these like objects, these are Barbies, like but I think if you want to be sexually liberated, you do have to acknowledge that what we want sexually doesn't always align with our real life values. I do I do agree with that. Like I agree with that, and can we really separate it? Like, are our desires really that separate from our beliefs? I feel like I feel like that's almost a sex negative question, though. Can we really separate it? You know, like do you but do you think that your desires are separate from like your internalized beliefs? I think they can be in conflict with each other, yes. I think like on a just truly on like a psychological level, I don't have an answer.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Like yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

I would like to say yes, like I want to believe that. Um, but like do I have the quote unquote data? Do I have I read a study? Like I'm it's tricky territory. I'll give you that. Yeah, I'll give you that. That's all I'm saying. Like, I want it to be true. Like, let's say you're you're doing like teacher-student role play with teaching adults. Does that mean you actually think that teachers and students should have sexual relationships? Or that you maybe as an adult want to say that. Or that you want that, like, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

I do not think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:43

I hope not. Like, I I truly, truly hope not. And I think for a lot of people, probably no. But like, is there maybe a one to two percent of people who maybe do? Like, you know, like but also maybe people want things that are taboo, and roleplay is a safe way to like creatively engage in that. I I definitely agree with that. Like, I think as a way to like engage healthily with fantasies, for yeah, like like for example, you know, people will do like fantasies where like one person's like cheating on or whatever. That doesn't mean that they want to cheat or be cheated on. Yeah, it just means that there's a a sexual dynamic to it that can be appealing, right? I think I think maybe my point is like I don't think always, but I worry about the one to two percent of like maybe their desires are their values. And what would be your solution to that? I don't think I have a solution. I just I'm worried about you don't believe in prison apparently. I okay, I said that for the sake of the podcast. Um, but I don't have a solution. I I'm more so I'm just like worried about that kind of like in the back of my mind. And but all that being said, I think that people should be allowed to like engage in the fetishes or kinks that they want to in a consenting way. Yeah, yeah. Okay, um record. Yeah. So our last real truth or like real opinion, do bad people deserve to be king shamed? No, but they do deserve to go to jail. To jail. Yes. You I agree. You agree, okay. Okay. All right, where do you think we go from here? Uh I think that we should continue to support a kink positive community. And I think I am begging that we focus on what is important. I do think there's room for joy, I think there's room for laughter and humor and making fun of our enemies. But just please stay focused on the issues that matter and don't let them drop because of like a salacious news cycle. That's my real opinion. Like, true takeaway. That's my takeaway too. Um I also think that like unfortunately, I like don't think kink shaming is really going anywhere at the moment. Like, this is not an issue people care a lot about. No. Um, and so it's kind of like at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of like you're not supposed to say totem pole anymore. Oh, you're you're probably right. Yeah. So at the bottom of the barrel? Sure. Okay. Bottom of the barrel of like the battles that we need to fight. Yeah. Um, and so I think we just we need to like prioritize, like you said, what what matters. And I do think that we're still gonna move towards a more sex positive like community and world where like kinks will get more accepted. Yeah. Partially because I think we're gonna be so inundated with like sexual scandal that like it just becomes so normal. Like, people are gonna be like, Well, I saw this last week, so what's the point? I know. I do think it's okay to keep things private, also. Oh, yeah. I don't know that, yeah. Like, I think people sometimes think being sex positive means that you have to be like really public about sexual things. No, I think you can be very private about it and circumspect about it while being positive. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. Yeah, we don't have to disclose everything about our lives all the time. Right. Yeah. Let's keep things to ourselves, guys. I love keeping things to myself. Me too. That's why I'm not on social media at all. Like I've been accused of being secretive. Really? Yeah. Well, mostly by my parents. Well the work works. You just don't trust anybody. But you are very forthcoming with friends, I feel like. Like once you once you're trusting you, I am not very secretive. Yeah. Unless it's something I'm really ashamed about. We're all working on shame. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Ready for cancel to come back? Yup. Hit me. Okay. Number one, furries. Cancel. I'm sorry. Maybe in the future I'll take this back and I'll be like, you live and you learn, and I'll issue a notes up apology, but at this time I'm I'm a cancel, however, like what you do behind closed doors is your business. I don't like humanoid animals. Walking around. Period. I don't like mascots. Oh, I also don't like mascots. I really don't. I like they make it. They creep me out. I also don't like clowns. Or Fantastic Mr. Fox, even that style of animation. Yeah.

unknown 1:05:24

Scares me.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:25

Yeah, I I'm with you. Paintings of dogs playing poker. How did we ever get into that? I don't know, but I really it makes me uncomfortable. Yeah. So I don't know. I I'm with you. Okay. I episode number one. Cancel buries. Like, I just like I don't know what it is. I just can't. Yeah. To me, maybe this is what it is. To me, I'm like, what I said earlier, I was like, is there part of you that has a desire to sleep with animals? Like, well, and that goes against what I was arguing. Yeah. But I think that's kind of where I get a little tripped up a little bit. Where I'm like Yeah. Um I'm also like I think it feels very parallel to like like in I never say this word right in infantilization. Infantilization. Yeah infantilization of what of like when people try to act like a child or act like a beauty. I will say that age play is a no for me. Yeah it makes me uncomfortable and maybe you know so maybe there is some kind of like maybe there are just things that to me are off limits.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:31

And I would have- This is one of them. I would have and this is one of them, and that's all the information I need. Yeah. And we can wrap it up there. Yeah. Okay. Cancel or come back, polyamory. I'm I'm gonna go ahead and cancel. I really sorry. I'm surprised. It's not for me. Yeah. I'm not gonna take it away from anyone. But I've yet to be convinced. Sure. I've yet to see it functional. Yeah. And I mean functional. Yeah. Working for everyone involved. Right. Yeah. I have you seen all like the Lindy West stuff. Uh-huh. It's all about like polyamory and she like was this big or she is this like big f feminist like writer. Uh-huh. And then she um, it's semi-against her will. Yes. Yeah, there's a lot of discourse. Yes. So anyway, um I've yet to see it work for anyone, but yeah. I'm open to having my mind changed. I do see a lot of it as like what I've heard is like people try polyamory when their relationship is failing rather than relationship is succeeding. Sure. And so like they try it to do it as like a a last-stitch effort to save their relationship rather than when they're at their healthiest and like can potentially open up to others. Um I think that unhealed people use non-monogamy as a weapon of avoidance.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:01

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

I yeah, I can definitely see that. I personally am like mostly neutral, but kind of come back on this if like it doesn't hurt anybody, you know? Like if yeah, yeah, sure. Like if this is just what people want to try and want to do. I will say I've also saw that there was like a big increase in this and now it's declining again. Um, so yeah, I am curious about like what that means. Um I also think that maybe we need to redefine polyamory as just people not being in any committed relationships. Like we're all, yeah, so many different ways to do it. Yeah. Okay, but next one, and I thought about this because of um we didn't get into it, but Tiger Woods. Yeah. Um so sex addiction rehab. I actually am comeback on this. Okay. And I think that sex addiction is a real thing, and that going to rehab for it, just like going to rehab for anything else, makes sense if it's something you're genuinely struggling with. Sure. I think that there can be a false narrative about it, um used as an excuse, but I don't think it's purely that. Yeah. I used to kind of be like, sex addiction isn't real, and like I have since changed my mind and like agree with you that I I definitely think it's real. Um I I'm pro the rehab, but I'm just like, how does that work? Like, what do they do? Like, I don't know. Yeah. I wouldn't go and do it for fun just to see what's up. Yeah, just to know what's happening. Yeah. See what they're talking about. And then I'm like, is it so when you're when you're in recovery and you go to a rehab, like you're not necessarily in recovery with people who are have the same addiction as you. So I'm sometimes curious, like, are people with sex addiction should they not mix? No, not necessarily not not mixed, but are they just there with other like is there sex addiction specific rehab, or are they with like other forms of therapists? I know I should just know more about this, but I actually have never come across somebody with sex addiction. I mean that I know professionally. And I worked with adults. Um and so yeah, at least like they never shared that, right? And so as far as I know. Interesting. Um, yeah. Okay. Last one. Those collars that people wear in Dom sub relationships. Um, come back. Yeah. As a fashion choice or just in those relationships? Whatever you want. Whatever you want. Um, yeah, honestly, couldn't care less. Like, do what you want. Yeah. Um, I think I do think it is like a little again, bringing the humor into it, like the ones with a key, like there's some I think that like aren't keys, like those just like are yeah chokers or something like that, but some that like you lock onto them. Oh wow. Um, I do think those are like a little funny. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Go on any cancel grandbacks. No, I have I have nothing. Okay. Well, well, if you have comments, questions, criticisms, compliments, or concerns, you can email us at true friendspod at gmail.com. You can find me on the internet at the better brattra on Substack and TikTok for now, and read my bi weekly column in the Austin Chronicle. And you can buy my novel, Good Christian Girls, anywhere you buy books. Join us next week and subscribe and review to become a true friend of the pod. Bye. The Bim Page Algae.