True Friends

Episode 19: Should I be a Belieber?

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SPEAKER_04

God bless Haley. She she is the reason. And then everyone's like, you guys all owe Haley an apology. Like, you were not part of the dog pile on Haley. No. Like, what the fuck? It's so fucking for real. Welcome to True Friends, an everyday ethics podcast where we discuss the complexities of the decisions we all have to make. From beauty standards to politics, we're bringing you our hot takes on modern debate. We might not always agree, but we'll give our honest opinions the way true friends do. I'm Evie, a part-time writer, full-time lesbian, and recovering social media addict.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like you've talked about this for three episodes.

SPEAKER_04

I deleted my Instagram since we last talked and reactivated it. Maybe multiple times.

SPEAKER_02

I get the TikToks you sent me, though. So I know you're back.

SPEAKER_04

I can't delete.

SPEAKER_02

No, it it is like the only form of communication to the outer world. Like that's my primary news source. It is a it's a primary source for this podcast.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, no, literally. We had to have it for research. You know, I deleted it and then I had to re-download it to link videos for the pod. Look, I'm never the one who told you to get it offline. Instagram that I have a problem with.

SPEAKER_02

I feel like Instagram is darker for me. I know. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, TikTok, like I hit a point where I'm like, okay, that's enough TikTok. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But with Instagram, for some reason, I'm like, I think I get more like AI and like quote unquote fake news on Instagram than on TikTok. Ridge your I'm Kate, a licensed therapist, first-time mom, and Lexapro Curious. Lexapro Curious. So does that mean you have not been on Lexapro? Alright, just out me. Out me immediately. We can edit. You're editing this episode. Um, no, I have been on Lexapro before, but I am re-curious, I suppose. And re-curious. Yeah, maybe I'm creating a new term, but um I am interested in getting back on it. Getting back together. Because we all gotta be medicated right now, to be honest.

SPEAKER_04

If you're out there and you're unmedicated, and I mean unmedicated, not self-medicated with drugs or alcohol, then I'm impressed.

SPEAKER_02

No, but like if you're sober and not on any SSRIs, like how did you do it? Tell us your secret. Yeah. Did your parents love you or what? You don't they don't have social media, that's it. Maybe.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I I don't know. Even my friend who doesn't have social media, hi Elizabeth, if you're listening, is is still like aware of the weight of the world. Sure. Let me not put her on the face.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, maybe they don't have social media, aren't reading the news in our homesteading like Whitney Lovett was going to, but didn't. I mean, there's a big part of me that it's like I would love the homesteading live. It's appealing. It's appealing.

SPEAKER_04

I'm I'm thinking about wheelbarrows. I'm thinking about mulch. I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_02

As long as we don't go down the like raw milk path, then I think we're above ground.

SPEAKER_04

I saw something about how everything is poison and I was like, yeah, absolutely. I think I sent it to you, and I was like, is this maha? But you didn't tell me. I probably didn't read it. Yeah. I sent it to you on Instagram.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. I definitely did not open it.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, please get back to me because I was like, I might be going down the maha pipeline.

SPEAKER_02

No, everything they were saying was making sense. The line between like leftist crunchy and maha is very thin. Very thin. Very thin. I'm right on it. Right, right, right in the line, right at the top.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So just a quick trigger warning, which may or may not be needed. In this episode, we may touch on the topic of childhood sexual abuse. It's not the main topic, but please listen with caution and take breaks or step away as needed. Um, and feel free to just, you know, not listen, but but subscribe. So this week we are talking about speculating on the trauma of public figures, slash do celebrities owe us a certain type of performance? Um I have assigned us both an artifact, and I will be stating my opinion on the ethics of the topic.

SPEAKER_02

And I'll be dis disagreeing with your opinion and playing devil's advocate, whether I secretly agree with you or not. And we know that Kate is great at that.

SPEAKER_04

This week's artifact is Justin Bieber's Coachella performance and the internet discourse surrounding it. So much discourse. So much discourse. I'm actually kind of sick of it, and I'm like, I'll be happy when we're done recording this because I'm like, I don't actually know if I have anything more to say. Yeah. But we gotta add our two cents, guys.

SPEAKER_02

I mean that we started a podcast for a reason.

SPEAKER_04

Our 14 followers need to hear this.

SPEAKER_02

Do you think our 14 followers care about Beaver Cella? Yes. Okay. They do. We've like already had side combos about it. People in my life don't care about it very much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I oh, well, our subscribe I'm thinking of people who subscribe to the pod, not necessarily our friends. Our friends don't care what we have to say.

SPEAKER_02

Is there a difference in numbers?

SPEAKER_04

Subscribers. All 14 of those are people we know. There's got to be at least one or two strangers.

SPEAKER_02

Send us an email if you if you want to hear from you. Yeah. We're just getting started. Not our friend, but still subscribing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

If you love this podcast, just know it could go away in an instant if we just get depressed and give it up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, if I don't get on Lexa Pro. If Kate doesn't get on Lexa Pro, it's a munchie chicken out of the lob, guys. They don't know that actually. Oh yeah. I did we need to start doing video. I cut nine inches off my hair. That's a lot. Yeah. It's not a lob. I thought it would be shorter, to be fair. And I am kind of like, okay, now I just have a boring haircut. So I either need to go back to long or shorter. I want you to commit to the lob next time.

SPEAKER_04

But I'm scared. We'll see. Okay. Okay. Um, so for anyone who's listening to this podcast, you probably already know who Justin Bieber is. But we're just gonna go over some of the basic facts because the idea is that anyone can listen to any episode and get a basic understanding. So Justin Bieper is a Canadian pop singer who got his start on YouTube and rose to fame in the late 2000s. He was very young when he became famous, perhaps becoming perhaps one of the most famous teen idols of all time. He became the first artist in Billboard charts history to have five US number one albums by the age of 18. I actually did not know that. By the age of 18.

SPEAKER_02

I will say that like I was I definitely had a little bit of like pick-me energy growing up around Justin Beaver. I'm being like, I'm not gonna like him because I don't like mainstream music, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whoa.

SPEAKER_04

So what were you listening to then?

SPEAKER_02

Um like panic at the disco and like Arctic monkeys. Yeah, yeah. Um, but anyways, I as an adult now I'm like, okay, actually, he is ex extremely talented. And like I I think like musically very what's the word like they called him a savant a little bit where he taught himself like five different instruments.

SPEAKER_04

Um, he he's extremely talented. Yeah, and like all other lesbians, I fell in love with him. Um, and it is a big thing in the community because he is lesbian adjacent. And especially when he had his like androgynous hairs era swoop. Yeah, yes, we all fell in love with him.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I do think the like hair swoop backwards cap was a Bieber appropriated look. That's the blueprint.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, the blueprint. Yeah. So as a child star and a teen heartthrob, Justin received a wild amount of attention and criticism from the media and the public with some pretty prominent scandals, which I'm not going to detail here, kind of in line with my ethics on the situation, but which ultimately I think could be characterized as a dumb teenager doing dumb teenager stuff. Okay, it was questionable activities. I don't know if you remember the whole all the stuff involving the monkey, but like there was some questionable The Monkey?

SPEAKER_02

I don't remember that.

SPEAKER_04

We could talk about it off, but there has also been an insane amount of speculation from the media and the public surrounding his romantic relationships, first with Selena Gomez and then with his current wife, Hayley Bieber, speculation on his mental health, possible substance use issues. I think it's also interesting to note that last we heard, Justin strongly identifies as a Christian. I These are just some facts.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the Christian part I think like it's interesting, and I've always kind of wondered if I'm gonna touch on it later too. Okay, if celebrities, kind of like politicians, feel like they have to like identify as Christian in order to like maintain a following.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I I think I see it differently where I feel like celebrities and politicians sometimes feel like they need to save their souls because things get so dark and they turn to Christianity in a I think genuine way.

SPEAKER_02

I I kind of wonder if like you either as a politician they'll like give give that up from the get-go, kind of knowing like you know, like I am like too little too late, or like you you like kind of fake it a little bit. Politicians maybe, like they're maybe their hearts are truly evil. Like I think about like Telerico, right? Where like he like I think he probably does identify as a Christian, but I don't think he identifies as Christian as much as he puts on, and like it's more just to get a voter base than to like actually believe it, where I don't think I don't think that like Ted Cruz is a Christian by any stretch of the imagination, and he knows that too, but he's just like doing it to save face.

SPEAKER_04

And what do you think about is Justin Bieber a Christian?

SPEAKER_02

I think Justin Bieber is I actually think he probably does identify, but I'm not sure he is as strong of a quote unquote Christian as like he portrays himself to be.

SPEAKER_04

Hmm, interesting. Well, we will get into it a little bit more, but we're talking about Justin today because after a four-year break from touring, Justin Bieber headlined Coachella's main stage for weekends one and two this year. A quick definition of Coachella, for those who don't know, Coachella is an annual music and arts festival in Indio, California, covering two separate weekends. It is a magnet for influencers and celebrities and draws a lot of attention every year from the performances to the outfits to who is in attendance. So there was basically a point during Justin's performance where he was like, Do you guys remember this one? And he started typing in to YouTube names of his old songs, starting with Baby, and then he sang along with his younger self in some of these clips, duetting himself or singing an octave lower, yeah, things like that. And this went on for a while, and it was a it was a pivotal part of his performance. So the the discourse, quote unquote, the debate is some people were saying that this was a lazy performance and disrespectful because he was a headliner, he got paid the most of uh I think the most of any headliner for Coachella, and he was just putting on YouTube videos, just wearing a hoodie, like you know, it was no big show.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

On the other side of the debate is people saying that this was actually like very significant performance art, that it reflects his healing from his childhood trauma, and we should be grateful, you know. Yeah, or his true fans understand the artistry that they're witnessing.

SPEAKER_02

I was like a little bit honest, I'm gonna be honest, like a little bit surprised about the discourse because he did the same thing at the Grammys. Right. And I was like, people ate that up, like they love him for that.

SPEAKER_04

True, but the Grammys is a very different setting from Coachella. The Grammys is performing it in front of other celebrities. And not Coach who didn't pay to be there. Yeah, yes, who pay exorbitant amounts of money to rot in the dirt. No, literally. Like a shower in a port a potty. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

I could personally never do Coachella, like ACL is about as like. I for even consider it. Yeah, ACL is a good thing. Not anymore, but I did go the first few years I lived here, and I just ugh I got really overwhelmed each time.

SPEAKER_04

But, anyways, yeah, um I can I see one concert and I'm like, I gotta take a break for like two months.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I also like I have to shower after seeing just one concert. Right. You know, like imagine three days in the dust. Like, ugh. God damn.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so let's get into the debate. Okay. Here's point number one that I'm gonna make. Okay, which is that it is harmful to speculate publicly on celebrities. So, in case y'all don't know what a parasocial relationship is, it's getting thrown around a lot. It used to mean something. It's in the zeitgeist. It's in the zeitgeist. Bing ding. Parasocial relationships are one-sided relationships where one person extends emotional energy, interest, and time, and the other party, the persona, is completely unaware of their existence. Parasocial relationships are common with celebrities, organizations such as sports teams or television stars. So I just want to point out, lay the groundwork, and say that when it comes to big celebrities that you follow for years, I don't want to be too judgmental. Like, yeah, we develop a parasocial relationship with them, we care about them, we invest time, money, energy, and attention into them, and they don't do the same for us because they don't know us because we're not famous. So it's not like parasocial relationships are evil necessarily, but they can be problematic. Thoughts on this?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think that like a big part of celebrity is kind of with the agreement and awareness that you are gonna have a parasocial relationship. Like maybe it has uh drastically like become exponentially more severe in the past 20-30 years, especially with social media. And so, like, maybe people didn't think that that that was the agreement that they were making when entering into like a public celebrity space, but I d I do think now, like, if you were pursuing celebrity, like it is with the knowledge that these parasocial relationships are gonna be there. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

So the point I'm making is that no matter how connected we may feel to Justin Bieber or another celebrity, we don't know their mental health diagnoses, we don't know the details of their trauma, we don't know them personally, we we can't really know for sure the nature of their addictions or anything like that. There's been a lot of speculation that Justin Bieber was victimized by sexual predators in the industry, and in fact, I have come across a lot of clips uh in videos, in edits, on TikTok, things like that, that are circulating again now that show adults touching him inappropriately, asking him inappropriate questions when he was a minor. And there was even one incident where he was groped at an awards show on stage, and afterwards he says, I feel violated into the microphone, and the audience just laughs.

SPEAKER_02

And he he's like not laughing in that, like he's very serious in that. Yeah, and I watching I watched that clip that you sent me, and I watching that, I was like, Oh, like I think maybe when I was a teenager and when that happened, and I just like I kind of was like the audience where I was like, ha ha ha and now like looking back, I'm like, what the fuck? Like, yeah, no one was protecting.

SPEAKER_04

I don't think I saw that when I was when it happened. I think I saw it circulating later, and it it does give me such a pit in my stomach. There were so many adults who thought it was really okay to sexualize him.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it's I mean it's like Britney, right? Like As a child, very similar narrative and story.

SPEAKER_04

And I've seen I we will follow that to its logical conclusion in our next point because I've seen a lot of comparisons with Britney. Okay. Um so I guess what I'm trying to say there is that knowing those things, like that's not parasocial, like we see that right in front of our eyes. So that's not speculation, that's that's a fact, right? Like that's observable from your own two eyes. Um, but there's also been a lot of speculation that Justin may be struggling with addiction or may have been struggling with addiction based on like his public appearances, like his mannerisms, yeah, things like that. Uh, what do you make of that?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think I kind of like still kind of go back a little bit to the parasocial part of it where like you when you're experiencing an addiction, your world is like still public. Um and like when you're a celebrity. When you're a celebrity. Um like the paparazzi are gonna follow you, people are gonna like comment on social media and like maybe cultivate conspiracy theories, and I think like while you can take steps to protect yourself from that, like it not isn't necessarily the responsibility of like the audience to do that, to like protect you.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so it's okay for people to just be like he looks like he's on fentanyl.

SPEAKER_02

I think the the it's okay versus the responsibility is like that that's where I feel a little bit different. Like, I'm sure in a perfect world, like okay, we all would just be respectful of everyone's like privacy and like what they're going through. And at the same time, like I don't think it is the responsibility of us as an audience to uh we always have to like censor ourselves and like on the flip side of that, I also think that maybe sometimes those comments actually lead to positive things. Like, I think about the Free Brittany movement, yeah, and how like that was a huge moment and her having like this lawsuit that led to the end of her conservatorship.

SPEAKER_04

Like true counterpoint would she have ever gotten to that point if all the public speculation and shaming and paparazzi had not had had been under control, had been substantial. Sure.

SPEAKER_02

I I I go back to again, like maybe the bigger difference here is like the child part of it and like how much like we when we did the like child influencer episode, like can children really consent? Um so I think that is maybe a a bigger topic, like that that is like the part where like okay, that is not okay as a child, and like we should do more to protect children. I think as an adult, we then have to like make the choice of like, is the speculation is the comment, is our comments or conspiracies worth the fame, worth the career, and like that's a choice that like these adults have to make. And I personally feel like I think about the Kardashians, like they're still profiting off of any like bad pub publicity, quote unquote. They're still making money, they're still like agreeing to be a part of it, as much as they have talked about it affecting their mental health.

SPEAKER_04

Um, so that is true. Yeah, yeah. Whereas in this case, Justin was a kid, he received so much negative press based on his antics as a as a young man, like a teenager in in his early twenties, and frequently was harassed by the paparazzi, and they published stuff in magazines for people to speculate on. So it's like the paparazzi feeds the public, yeah, and therefore the public creates the demand that causes the paparazzi.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I do think like I'll like stand on the child part. Like, first of all, there should not be celebrity children. So we shouldn't know any children, no famous children. No, no famous children, and in the world that we live in, even if there are, we should do more to protect them. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, I guess my overall point here is although it's okay to form opinions, it's wrong to just post them on the internet with unfounded claims about somebody you don't know. Of course, my question is like, weren't we just discussing Taylor Frankie Paul and her diagnoses and her behavior and speculating on that? Why do you think it's wrong? I think that you could just keep your opinion in the group chat, you know?

SPEAKER_02

You could. I also think that a lot of people use social media as a way to like engage with others and like grow their ideas, grow their opinions, and you know, like that's part of online quote unquote community.

SPEAKER_04

True.

SPEAKER_02

Um so I I don't know. I kinda like I I d I guess I disagree in the sense that like I don't necessarily think it's wrong. Could we be kinder about it? But like it's not again, not the responsibility of the audience to censor their thoughts and opinions all the time when that is like what social media is for, and also when you put yourself in the public limelight, like that's like part of the agreement you're making.

SPEAKER_04

Do you think there's a difference between speculating on someone's mental health or addiction than speculating on like who they're dating? What do you think? I think there's a difference.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Yeah. I do think there's a a difference. I think while I would like it if we just kept it to like the lighthearted gossip, again, I don't think we get the right to control what people say or do on the internet.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people would agree with you, especially when it comes to like we're having like the conversation of everyone's looking really emaciated. Is it better to keep that to ourselves? Like, oh, you're speculating that Emma Stone or Ariana Grande has an eating disorder, and it's like, yeah, no, I am for sure.

SPEAKER_02

For sure, and I think we should.

SPEAKER_04

And we need to talk about it, actually. Because these are public figures, but with Justin, I I think it feels a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02

Why is it different?

SPEAKER_04

I I think it is partly just that child aspect, yeah. Um that he was a child when a lot of the speculation happened. Yes, I think child stardom puts a different set of rules on things. I do like a lot of he's now like 32. Sure.

SPEAKER_02

A lot of the TikToks I was watching, I was like, Where's his mom? Like, where was his mom ever? Ever. Like what was going on? Like, I yeah, like I just like was she just like, okay, like this is the the cost of stardom. Kids are not cash cows, you know?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So point number two, let's discuss. A woman could never is something that I'm seeing debated. And I think my take is gonna be really unpopular because most of what I'm seeing is it's not about it's not about gender, it's not about a woman could never, he's the Justin Bieber. Like it's com it, you know, the rules for him are completely different. I agree that he is the Justin Bieber. I also think a woman could never get away with this. Okay. I do think that. And I don't think that that takes away from Justin Bieber's choice or performance. And I don't think that it means that I'm saying that he should not have done that. But people are like, if you know, imagine if that was Beyonce or Taylor or Sabrina or Ariana or Olivia Rodrigo. Like, people would be like, what the fuck? That was so lazy.

SPEAKER_02

Do you really I actually like be I agree to an extent, but I my first thought when like hearing that take is like I think Beyonce could do this and people would love it. You think? Maybe. I maybe I'm only thinking that based off like the beyond the beehive people that I know in my life and like would stand and anything that she would sure there's always gonna be stands. Yeah, and then similar with like Taylor Swift, I think like there's stands of Taylor Swift that would probably condone whatever she did.

SPEAKER_04

I guess something I want to say really is that I don't think a woman would even try this because we demand so much of women, e not even public figures, regular women. Like you can see men showing up in a hoodie and pants, and then a woman is dressed the nines, like we just don't give them that kind of slack. And as much as I I don't mind seeing people praise and defend Justin Bieber, like I'm a Justin Bieber apologist, yeah, I I think to dismiss and be like y'all are just being silly, saying like a woman can never no, I I don't think that's true. Like, I I people were contrasting it to Sabrina Carpenter's performance, which I mean it had a lot of technical elements, theatrics, costume changes. It was a very produced um set. And I don't think it's fair to compare the two, right? Because people are like, well, Justin's been in the game like decades, right? Like, he's already done all that production, costumes, choreography, so he did his time. Um, and I saw at one TikTok that was like, you know, I'm gonna repeat this again. Like, it's not about whether a woman could do this, like, it's not him being a man or a woman, it's him being the Justin Bieber. But a woman couldn't be the Justin Bieber. We would never give her that chance. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02

I I don't think I disagree with like the point you're making around like a woman could never or a woman would like never even try to because they know that the amount of like flack that they would get for it. I think more what I'm wondering or thinking about is does this argument a woman could never like kind of like miss the point of the whole thing?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think it's not the main thing for this topic. Yeah. I do agree. Like, this is not necessarily a gender politics moment. But for the people who are so quick to dismiss that point, like I do think multiple things can be true. Everything we're saying about Justin can be nuanced and true, and ultimately, like, I support the performance, spoiler alert. However, it does bother me that like to to be a woman is to perform, yeah, and I just don't think that a woman could ever be given so much grace. I don't.

SPEAKER_02

Not definitely not grace, but I still think there are a couple not a lot, but maybe a couple artists, like female artists that would receive a lot of praise for it. For the exact same thing. Yes. Like I think, like maybe not to the extent that Justin Bieber is.

SPEAKER_04

It would be on looking up YouTube videos, no set dressing, no costume changes, no makeup.

SPEAKER_02

I'm not saying that it would be to the same extent. Like, I do agree with that, but I again go back to like Beyonce. Like, I think that like if she did like basically like an acoustic performance of a lot of her work and like sang along to like the younger version of herself, some people would really love it and like would be really behind it. I don't think I think the amount of discourse that we see around like people being upset with Justin Bieber would would be double.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like, but I do still think there would be a side of people who would be like, no, this is like authentic and raw and real. Um, so I think that's that's more where I kind of go from it. Is like, sure, I agree, maybe you wouldn't be as forgiving, but I don't think that they would be totally like blacklisted. Sure.

SPEAKER_04

I think I think what bothers me a little bit is just seeing this like outpouring of defense and support for him, and just knowing in my heart that a woman could never get that.

SPEAKER_02

Do you think that like the the Swifties would not do that for Taylor?

SPEAKER_04

I I don't think Taylor would even dare to put in so little effort. And I think if she did, if she showed up at her big age in a hoodie, just kind of singing, we would be like, this bitch is washed up for sure. Um, that would probably be, yeah, that would probably be a big downfall. I I think the only person I could see is Brittany because of what she's been through and what we put her through. Rihanna. If she sat Rihanna can do whatever she wants, can do whatever she wants. Rihanna, please just give us more music. We will do anything. Sing to your YouTube. I'll I know I maybe, maybe Rihanna. Yeah, maybe that's the exception.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe.

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. Yeah. I would support a woman doing this exact same thing away. For sure.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I just know the public in my soul that the discourse would be totally different. Yeah. And everyone is like, I've got Bieber fever, I totally get it. I support him.

SPEAKER_02

Any of his haters are like the amount the the the like people who don't even care about beaver them. The passion in which people are coming to his defense.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

It would not be comparable to a woman doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and I don't think it super matters in this combo, but I I needed to bring it up anyway. Sure. It does bug me.

SPEAKER_02

I think you have a right to be upset, and also I think that like I don't know, I still kind of think that like this conversation feels like a distraction. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Well, obviously. Yeah. Everything we talk about is a distraction. Yeah. Ultimately, I think that the way that this ties into exploitation of children, the Epstein files, all of that I think is is relevant. Okay. We're never gonna go an episode without them. The Epstein files, and we never should. And we never ever can, dude. It's yeah, but it's all connected. Okay. It's all connected. And I do think that should be the focus. So, point number three, and I've already kind of given away that I think this, but I don't think the performance was lazy. I don't think celebrities owe us a theatrics. So Justin's stripped down Coachella performance, not the results of laziness, it was intentional. I do think Justin Bieber is quote unquote doing the work of something that I've heard thrown around a lot to heal his inner child and showcasing to his fans and his audience what a vulnerable kid he was taking back a lot of narratives that have been spun around him without his consent.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04

We're supposed to disagree.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I actually think I mean I think I might disagree. Um I I think I don't think it's lazy. I agreed with that. I think it was intentional. I'm not so sure about doing the work. Like I I would like to believe that, but I feel like I've seen time and time again where people kind of enter into this like meditative spiritual space and they're like, oh, I'm healing. And like it is it's just another like cover-up, essentially.

SPEAKER_04

Um like men turning to religion after like their sex addiction era or whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um and I I also think like, you know, like I'm not saying he's using or I I I don't really have an opinion on whether or not he has an addiction. But so when I weren't use the term like relapse, like I mean more so like relapse and have like a mental health issue. Okay. Um saying he's healed and I'm not I'm just like not convinced.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's so valid. Yeah, like this that's the other thing, right? Is this huge swell of everybody being like, this is our sign that he's fine. Right. And he's over it. Right. And it's like he's probably still hurting guys.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I also I think if you forget he has two kids. Two? I yeah, she just had another one, I'm pretty sure.

SPEAKER_03

Really? Got it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um I'm I think about the fact that not only is he this massive celebrity, but he's a parent. He's a parent, he's a partner.

SPEAKER_04

There's And there have been a lot of questionable videos of him and Haley, like where he seems to not like Haley. What do you make of those? I don't know what to think about.

SPEAKER_02

Uh I kind of think Loki is like the Selena fans coming for her. Yeah. Which to be fair, there are like some really interesting conspiracy theories about the way that Haley Bieber a pursued Justin and seemed to like imitate Selena.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Um I've seen some videos.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. It's not today's topic, but it it could be its own topic. Yeah. Honestly, I just feel like I don't even know what to think.

SPEAKER_02

I I think that like it's really easy to get a paparazzi photo of someone who looks discontent. You know, like it's like those photos aren't very convincing to me, and I think honestly, maybe what is happening is like Justin Bieber is unwell in general, yeah, and then happens to leave the house, and it's not reflective of necessarily his relationship with Haley, so much it is reflective of his mental state. You think he has a good relationship with Haley, yes or no? Hmm. They made it this, they have two kids, they made it this far. So I want to say probably better than average.

SPEAKER_04

They have two kids and they made it this far.

SPEAKER_02

Like if anyone that has the means to leave, you know, like and like still have like a co-parenting relationship and not worry about money, all of that, then like they do.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so kind of tying into that, a couple things. One, Justin did turn to God. So in 2025, there was a lot of speculation about Justin being in a cult. Like, there was this, he's part of Hillsong for a while. Yeah, Hillsong's yeah, not good. I don't do anything. And then this pastor Judah Smith. Um, and basically, like somebody in a video, one TikToker, was like, no rehab, no program, no coach. He went and did the work, and then Haley, she's the reason it stuck. All he needed to save himself was himself, a prayer, and a woman who stood by him. Which, like, I think that is so dangerous to be like all he needed was to pray to Jesus and have a good woman.

SPEAKER_02

Is that our narrative? I mean, it's giving typical toxic Christian masculinity, like yeah. That I mean, I I do think it like kind of just boils down to people wanting to think that it's like that easy.

SPEAKER_04

Like, I yeah, I want us to be happy for Justin. I would love for him to be healed, but I feel like we're on a little bit of a mass psychosis now, being like, he prayed to Jesus, and his wife helped him prove his wife, Haley, yeah, God bless Haley. She she is the reason, and then everyone's like, You guys all owe Haley an apology. Like, you were not part of the dog pile on Haley. No, like what the fuck? So fucking for real.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I do think that like, I mean, who knows? Maybe maybe like religion did help him. I don't know. Um, I'm very skeptical of Hillsong in general. They are basically a pyramid scheme. Um, so as are all churches. Fair enough. And you can quote me. I know we can on your tombstone. Um, but yeah, so to think that he was saved by Hillsong, I'm pretty skeptical of. I don't know if he found some sort of spiritual awakening or guidance that maybe did help him, but I don't think Hillsong was it.

SPEAKER_04

What do you think about people being like Haley saved him? Like this guy who made this TikTok was basically, which I have all the TikToks linked in the uh notes, or you will, but like basically saying like he was on the track of Mac Miller or whatever, like he would have died an early death if it hadn't been for Haley.

SPEAKER_02

Um I do think whatever was happening with him and Selena played a like role in maybe the volatility of his well-being. And I think potentially getting out of that helped with stabilization. Um whether that be their actual relationship itself or just the speculation around it causing that volatility.

SPEAKER_04

Um I I will say I think there's a lot to be said for like a partner who will ride with you, but like just kinda like Yeah, I worry about the blind loyalty narrative. Like the people who are like a good woman sticks by her man and heals him when he is unwell, he's shuffling through addiction, maybe he's not being good to her. Like I don't know. I just don't like the glamorization of that at all.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Would you feel differently if it was a man? Like a man sticking by a woman when she was unwell and all that.

SPEAKER_04

No, not if it was like the same dynamic. Like I think if you're if your partner is unloving or abusive or anything like that, like you should leave.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04

And I don't know that that's the case.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But I do know that I do think that there are a lot of women who will stick around through some stuff that they maybe shouldn't.

SPEAKER_02

And you think idolizing Hayley Bieber in that way perpetuates that narrative?

SPEAKER_04

Kinda. The narrative that she saved him just isn't sitting right with me. I think maybe they have a good relationship, maybe she's a good wife, maybe, but I don't know. I don't know that I buy into that narrative.

SPEAKER_02

Does that not like go against your original argument of like it's harmful to like speculate so publicly on celebrities? Like, like who are we to say?

SPEAKER_04

We don't know. Well, I think the speculation is Haley saved him, and I'm just saying that's speculation. And that it it's not warranted, like we shouldn't. I don't know that it's warranted. I think it's a big claim. It's a big claim. Yeah. I think I mean the claim that Justin is healed now and healed his inner child is a big claim. Yeah, I don't buy that one.

SPEAKER_02

I like heard it here from a professional therapist. Like, I would I love to, sure. But I just like I'm not convinced. And like I think we've seen this narrative time and time again where like a celebrity is like, I did all this work, I'm sober, I'm I'm like found God, or like I'm in a healthy relationship, and like everything is better, and then three years later we see them in rehab, or like not yeah, not alive, and like all these things, yeah. Um, so I think I like I do agree, you know, to give credit to Haley maybe isn't warranted, but I also don't really think that is really that any different than being like, oh, he found God.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I don't think God or Haley can be credited for his recovery. So overall, as far as his Coachella performance, which is like that's the topic, I think that him performing a duet like with his younger self was very beautiful and very touching and a beautiful performance and a powerful statement of reclaiming his experience. And you could see it in his eyes and his smile, like that his confidence has somewhat returned, that he felt more at ease, like he didn't have that like haunted look in his eyes that he's had for a really long time for whatever reason, be it God or Hayley Bieber, or LexaPro, or LexaPro or Therapy, or we don't, we don't EMDR, like we don't know. We don't know. And I do think it's dangerous to speculate. I think that's why it's dangerous to speculate because then you're like, well, if Jesus saved Justin, Jesus can save me. Like, and it's like, well, we don't know that that's what happened.

SPEAKER_02

Well, do you think there's a difference between speculating on celebrity versus just speculating on people in your everyday life? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Um well, uh speculating on people in your everyday life could potentially be more dangerous because you're talking shit about people in your direct circle. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just saying we're gonna be influenced, right? We can be influenced by a celebrity, we can be influenced by people in our everyday life.

SPEAKER_04

So you know I think it's best to be influenced by people you actually know.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

That you trust, and you've built trust with them because we idolize celebrities and then we take what they say as the truth. And they are flawed people with that are have a lot of secrets that we don't know about.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. How much do you think the average person is like truly influenced by celebrity? A lot. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_04

The average person?

SPEAKER_02

Well, you're making it sound derogatory.

SPEAKER_04

No, average person derogatory. The general population, I think, is heavily influenced by influencers. That's like yeah, that is, I mean, the advertising, the yeah, the beauty, all of it. You know, like we see a beautiful person and we just want to believe them and think that they can give us the answers. Maria Bamford has a joke where she's like, Jennifer Aniston will show us where all the bananas are located. You feel like we're all like monkeys.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

We just follow her. Yeah, we're like, she's so pretty. I mean, everyone got a haircut. I didn't tell you this, but my future mother-in-law, my girlfriend's mom, said that I look like Jennifer Aniston.

SPEAKER_02

That's so sweet.

SPEAKER_04

I know.

SPEAKER_02

The highest compliment a white woman can get. I mean, that or Angelina Jolie. For sure, but I ain't looking like her. I get Sam for my Carly. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, wait, you kind of do look like her.

SPEAKER_02

No, I know I I think I actually do look like her.

SPEAKER_03

She wrote uh she has a new book out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we talked about it. The other one I get is Yes. Mariah Carey. Really? Yeah. Huh. I don't know if we can say this on the pod, but um, only black people tell me that. Oh. I've literally never had a white person be like, you look like Mariah Carey, but like black women have come up to me in the airport and stopped me and be like, Do you know who you look like? And you say, Yeah, Mariah Carey.

SPEAKER_04

I I do, I do, because I I guess it's like what's that Cardi B thing where she goes, I hate when a bitch thinks she's cute because she's light skinned. That's what that reminded me of. That's literally what it is. Yeah, there are some structural similarities with the cheeks. Yeah, and like the the chin. Yeah, maybe the forehead a little bit. Why is uh obsessive?

SPEAKER_02

Um, but that was my husband's childhood crush. So good for me. I love that. My yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I must look like Owen Wilson then. Here we go again.

SPEAKER_02

Have you got who did I tell you you look like John Krasinski?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, the medium ugly guy. Let's not go back to that.

SPEAKER_02

Do you think John Krasinski and Jennifer Anderson look similar? No, but they are both white people. Yeah. And in that sense, yes. Yes. All the same. Okay, anyways.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, overall, I am in full support of Biebercella. Okay. Okay. I think we are getting a little psychotic in the discourse, and we are making a lot of like extrapolations and assumptions and speculations, and it's it's a bit much. And and I don't think a woman could get away with it. And and I'm okay for that to be a side point, but I stand on it. Okay. Um, so yeah, like tell me your your real opinions on on these things, starting with We're revealing the truth. Yeah, let's reveal the fucking truth. There was no need to curse there, but do you actually think it's okay to speculate on celebrities and it comes with the package?

SPEAKER_02

Um I think now. I don't go as hard as I originally like started. I do think that like there should be more of a social agreement that we don't need to speculate on like things like mental health, things like domestic violence, things like um drug use. Like, I think that the way in which we have allowed and exploited celebrities, like allowed celebrities to be exploited, has gotten really scary and unsafe. Um, and I but I do stand that it's not the responsibility of the audience to be the moderators. I think more so we need to put the like responsibility back on to like like a TMZ or like but you don't think there's any audience responsibility because don't we create the demand? We this is good talk to like a reality TV topic, but like yeah, we do create the demand, but you do not think that like people would still be obsessed with Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, Beyonce without speculating on like the well being of their relationships or their substance use or things like that. Like I think they would still be insanely obsessed.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think we should maybe return to the era. Of not knowing so much about celebrities' personal lives. Yeah, I d I agree with that. Come out and perform and then get out of here. Well, Beyonce does do that.

SPEAKER_02

Like Beyonce posts on Instagram, but like she almost never posts a caption.

SPEAKER_04

Wasn't Jay-Z in the files?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know if he was in the files, but Jay-Z has been really outed for some other terrible things. Um, he's mentioned. Okay. I mean, a lot of people are mentioned. Right. Um, but he m he did get he had a lawsuit against him for like assaulting a minor. Yeah, well, anyway. But anyways, all that to be said, like, I I think that there are celebrities that are more private. And so, like, maybe they are more insulated and protected by how much they choose to share with social media.

SPEAKER_04

Where do you stand on a woman can never?

SPEAKER_02

Um be honest. No, I'm I like I would say like I like 80% agree with you. I do think that potentially Beyonce or even Taylor Swift could get away with a level of what Justin Beaver did and then and not be like blacklisted or cancelled or whatever it is. Like I do, I do think that they could get away with a level of it. And maybe like Taylor Swift, maybe not at this time in her career. But I think I do still think maybe Beyonce. And Rihanna.

SPEAKER_04

The only person I would want to see it from probably would be Brittany.

SPEAKER_02

Do you like still stand on 100% that like you don't think a female artist could get away with this at all?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I really don't. Okay. I really stand on that. We'll see. But I I think we're like we way uh underestimate how much people actually like want to see a woman fall. Like the discourse around chapel, the discourse like we we love to take a woman down. And other women love to take a woman. And they're and they're trying very hard.

SPEAKER_02

I do think though that like the cult following that a couple of these artists have, I think that is the exception I feel a little bit. Maybe like how how blindly and intensely they they have already come to specifically Taylor Swift's defense, like around some things.

SPEAKER_04

That's a whole issue.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Like the parasocial relationships of Taylor Swift, she plays into that. She really engages with the parasocial. She really backed herself into a corner with that one. Oh, was it backing herself into a corner or was it really intentional?

SPEAKER_04

I she I think she backed herself into a corner. Maybe unintentionally, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02

Like thought she was doing something that was like worth it. Maybe that she thought she was in control and now she's right. That's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_04

Well, I don't even know, girl. But uh for point three, do celebrities owe us performance? Um I mean, if they want to keep their jobs a little bit, I guess.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, like, even though this was a really like dialed down performance, it still is a performance, right? Like he still like got up there and like put on a somewhat of a show. Um I mean he has a beautiful voice. Um, I think that like yeah, I think they like kind of do, right? Like, isn't that what being a celebrity is?

SPEAKER_04

Is Yeah that's yeah, I think if you're a singer, you you sing and you're an actor, you act, and like that's a performance, and like and we are we're getting to a place where we're demanding a lot more like an entire like lifestyle from people, but no, yeah, I think I don't think that he owed us more than he gave us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I but at the same time, like I think someone is totally like Rihanna, like totally allowed to be like, I'm actually done. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_04

You are free to walk away. Like Tom Holland was like, When I have kids, I'm done. Goodbye, he'll never see me again. Right.

SPEAKER_02

I'm on sleigh. So they owe us a performance if like they, like you said, want to keep their jobs, but beyond that, no, like if you if you're fine being done, be done.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. Did you see any clips of Sabrina's performance?

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

She put her whole body, her whole Sabrina Ossie into that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I am more and more kind of like just kind of over her and like don't don't really want to even like like not even a negative way that much, it's kind of just like I don't think that you're like novel, I don't think that you're interesting, like I kind of just like you feel like a little bit like she's like a a puppet of the industry.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I mean it's interesting because there's this argument that she is subversive, but I'm like, how?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Tell me exactly how she's subverting the male gaze in any way. Yeah. I think I do think I've kind of gotten the ick a little bit as far as how much she plays into like the hypersexuality standards. Oh yeah. She's like, I'm so tiny. Like, yeah, she's tiny, but like, yeah, yeah, she sexualizes herself so intensely, and then we're like, that's feminism. And it's like, well, I'm not sure that I'm convinced, but I kind of like I'm also kind of just like, again, like does it matter?

SPEAKER_02

Like, yeah, I'm kind of like for the male gaze, for the female gaze, like I don't like this gonna sound so bad, but like I don't think she's that impressive of enough of an artist for me to like she does seem like just yeah, very much creative within the industry.

SPEAKER_04

I think I don't know if I mean, yeah, you saw the whole debacle over like her being racist about the chant, but that that did rub you the wrong way. It yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because I think it just shows like underneath it all like a level of ignorance, there's this pretty white girl who just, you know, like wants her accolades and yeah, and she's got a mean streak that you think I think came out, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, maybe. I think like that I think if you were up in front of however many thousands of people and like that happened to you and you didn't know what it was, like you could be really thrown off by it. Sure. So I like we'll give anybody that grace. I do think her comment of like that was weird and like the little sneer. Right. No matter no matter what happened, like no matter what anybody has said in that moment, like her response to that was what was off-putting. And she literally said, like, I don't like it. Right. Versus like, even if it wasn't a cultural thing, even if it wasn't like related to anything like that, the like that was weird, and like the sneer that came with it, that was the part that was off-putting.

SPEAKER_04

And maybe people are gonna tell me that I'm being a classic woman hater, but yeah, I know I that rubbed me the wrong way, but that's not today's topic. So, where do we go from here? Bibricella, where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_02

Um I h I like hope that we allow artists a little more grace around like the way that they want to perform and also our speculation on their lives. Um I think that like I do think that the social media commentary can can actually really hurt even a celebrity. Yeah, and so I again don't think it's necessarily our responsibility to censor everything. I would hope that people practice kindness, but I still think there should be moderation in terms of like the industry.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Okay, that's fair. Do you think that Bieber Fever is back? Oh yeah. Where do you think Justin Bieber is gonna go from here? Like, is he so back? Is he gonna crash? Are we gonna never see him again? What's the deal? Well, didn't he just release another album?

SPEAKER_02

Did he? I thought that was like part of this. So was that like he recently released a new album? Um, I just think I in my personal opinion, this is an era of Justin Bieber, and we're gonna see a like dialed back version of him, but I don't think the like intense hip pop performances are gonna be the last thing we like are not gonna come back. Like I think like this era of him is not the last era that we see. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04

What do you think? It looks like the last album was in 2025. Uh, Swag and Swag 2. Okay. So I don't I mean 2025 is not that long ago. Well, it's a year ago. He hasn't just released an album, but yes, we'll see. We will see. I think I don't know. We're we're hyping him up really intensely again. I hope he's gonna be steady.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, that's part of the reason I'm not convinced that like he's healed. Because I do I do part part of me feels like if you were so abused by the industry, healing would mean never coming back.

SPEAKER_04

Hmm. Yeah, I think it would be really interesting if this was his bookend where he's like, I'm taking it back. I'm showing you I'm a beautiful singer, I'm a grown man, like I respect the child that just wanted to sing, and that's it for me. I would really respect that.

SPEAKER_02

I would respect that too.

SPEAKER_04

But I'm curious what his next book will be. Only Tap will tell. So we've made it to cancel or come back. So excited. So this is where we talk about some lighthearted pop culture topics um that relate to what we've been discussing, and we say whether we want to cancel them or we want them to come back. The 2020 try again.

SPEAKER_02

The 2010s floppy haircut. I think this is the whether or not I want it to come back, I think it is coming back. Yeah. I don't, I actually canceled, I don't like it. Um, but I think it's on its way back.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I say come back. Why the hell not?

SPEAKER_02

Did you like it when at the time? Yeah. I looked, I looked at the time too, but now I'm I'm like, now I'm like, mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Comeback. I'm ready. Hiring a professional stylist for Coachella as an attendee. Oh, cancel. Like what? There's so much outfit discourse. Have you seen it? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I'm and I'm part of the problem because I like watch it and engage with it, and like I am curious. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's a fashion event. It's a fashion event. And I am like, I do think fashion is art, so I'm like very curious about it. Um, but yeah, hiring a stylist for Coachella, like, don't we literally have AI for that now? Like, we truly. Yeah. Truly. Truly. No, I'm not saying go use AI, but is Pinterest really all that different? Yeah, style yourself. I want to see what you came up with.

SPEAKER_04

Right. I yeah, I'm kind of bored by the idea of a stylist. Yeah, very boring. And it's like, ugh, not everybody has to be a celebrity, you know? Like Zendaya needs a stylist, you don't. Correct. Teen heartthrobs.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I can come back, kind of actually. Like, I think that like in a wholesome way. Like, I I know, I know. But I think like that the teens need something that is like a little more pure.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I was I was gonna say cancel because like the teen heartthrobs always end up getting over sexualized. Yeah. But if we could put some rules in place, like then maybe can it was like cute and healthy, like um high school musical, teen hearthrob type shit. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe you're on watch. You're on notice. Okay, what about like uh a theatrical co Coachella performances like Sabrina's?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know, I'm kind of neutral because I'm kind of like if that's what you want to if that's what people are paying to see, like if that's what like what people like want, then like and you like you are down with it, then I I guess come back, like I'm uh I'm kinda fine with it.

SPEAKER_04

I think comeback, like yeah, put a show for on for us. Yeah, we're giving you so many dollars. Right. Let's see what you got.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

What about celebrity churches? I mean, yeah, cancel cancel.

SPEAKER_02

Like, what's the worst celebrity church Kanye's?

SPEAKER_04

I don't know. What's his celebrity church?

SPEAKER_02

He had a like he he helped like create a church that was like pretty centered on music and they all wore white. Um yeah, it was yeah. Cancel, yeah. Paparazzi. Um, I can cancel. Uh isn't the internet the paparazzi?

SPEAKER_04

Like dude, I was at this gay person's birthday party yesterday, and these little girls who probably were like, I'm bad at guessing the ages of kids, but they they were younger than 10. They I was me and a couple of my friends were dancing to the there was a DJ and they were blatantly filming me on their iPhones. Blatantly.

SPEAKER_00

Why?

SPEAKER_04

And giggling and laughing. I was like, they're gonna post this to TikTok and be like, look at this old lady dancing. Hashtag cringe. That it was it was odd. It felt really weird.

SPEAKER_02

That is really uncomfortable. Yeah. And why were they there?

SPEAKER_04

They must have belonged to somebody. Uh yeah. They were just running around like a little group of three, and they were weird. They were whispering to each other and giggling, and they they stared at me a couple times and they filmed me a couple times. It was real weird.

SPEAKER_02

Maybe they just liked your outfit.

SPEAKER_04

I don't think so.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, uh, cancel the paparazzi. Little girls do this. Don't film people. Just don't film strangers like that. Don't feel strangers. You don't need to do that.

SPEAKER_02

It's really uncomfortable and invasive. And yeah, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04

Let people live and be cringe.

SPEAKER_02

I even get uncomfortable like when I'm like taking a picture of like a selfie, and like someone's like behind me, and I'm like, oh deny. I'm sorry. Should I ask for their consent?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah, I recently took some pictures at a drag show, and I was gonna put some of them in my column, and I I did DM them and be like, Ask for the drag. Yeah, because drag is very I mean it's public, but it's very vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, okay, being a believer. Remember the scandal where he wrote Anne Frank would have been a believer? Oh my god, I forgot about that. And maybe she would. Maybe, but come back, I guess. Ouija board, Anne Frank, were you a believer?

SPEAKER_02

I think I think come back. You know, maybe he's the teen heartthrob that we need again. I wanna believe.

SPEAKER_04

I wanna believe with the with your swoopy hair. I wanna have swoopy hair and I wanna believe. And I wanna wear a hoodie and that to be okay.

SPEAKER_02

It did feel like the world was a better place when we were all believers.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, maybe for a second. My college roommate took me to the like there was like a little Justin Bieber tour movie for I remember. Yeah. One of his albums or something. And I had never listened to him, and she took me and I was like, Who's this dike? I was into it.

SPEAKER_02

And then you became a believer.

SPEAKER_04

That was the And yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe. I want to believe. Okay. So yeah, if you have comments, questions, criticisms, compliments, or concerns, you can email us at true friendspod at gmail.com. You can find me on the internet, on and off various platforms at the Better Bradshaw, currently as of this moment on Substack, Instagram, and TikTok. You can read my biweekly column in the Austin Chronicle, and you can buy my novel, Good Christian Girls, anywhere you buy books. Join us next week and subscribe and review to become a true friend of the pod.

SPEAKER_03

Bye.