Episode 21: Is it pick-me behavior to marry a murderer?

Kate and EB discuss the cost of male attention when it comes to the safety of women. Our artifact this week is the Netflix documentary "Should I Marry a Murderer?" We debate our opinions about the pressure society puts on women to be chosen by a man, the responsibility of women when it comes to breaking out of the cycle, and the many ways in which the justice system fails victims in their time of need.

Sources:

• Netflix Series: Should I Marry a Murderer?
• Should I Marry a Murderer? Reddit thread 

Questions? Compliments? Criticisms? Email us at: truefriendspod@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And she was heartbroken. She was heartbroken. And then she was like, let me go to the hills and drink and drive. And like exactly. Relatable queen. And marry this random ass farmer.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Like, yeah, that's like really relatable to me.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Shut up. I'm getting my heartbroken and then just being like, I'm gonna go fucking bat shit. Real. I'm gonna go frolic in the hills. Real. She was like, nothing matters anymore.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

And then COVID hits, I'd be like, bitch, I do need to start doing drugs.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

Welcome to True Friends, an everyday ethics podcast where we discuss the complexities of the decisions we all have to make. From beauty standards to politics, we're bringing you our hot takes on modern debates. We might not always agree, but we'll give our honest opinions the way true friends do. I'm Evie, a part-time writer, full-time lesbian, and recovering minimalist.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

I can speak to that.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Your apartment is not minimal at all. No. But if you've seen some of these Gen Z like maximalist ones where like every inch of the wall is covered.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

That does stress me out. You're like a nice, like happy medium, with like eclectic, intentional style.

SPEAKER_04 1:08

I'm going for set piece in Gilmore Girls.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Yeah, no. Or New Girl. New girl. It's giving new girl. Yes. Yeah. New girl loft minus the Fornman Freeman.

SPEAKER_04 1:19

75% of its um size and characters. Um, I'm Kate. Sorry. You were gonna forget about me, weren't you? No, I know you're here. It's just gonna be me today, guys. My thoughts on filtered.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

This is actually the podcast that Evie would like to host. It's just an hour of her internal monologue. Yeah, someone somebody else should hear it.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Okay. Your cats aren't enough. I don't talk out loud to my cats. You would think that I would. I would actually think that about it. I only really address them when they're like, you know, I mean, I'll be like, you know, you're so cute, like, hello, come here, but I'm not like, guys, what's wrong with me? And maybe I should.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Maybe that's why they're a little indifferent toward you. They're they're not indifferent towards me. They're just cats. Okay, sure. And I'm Kate, a licensed therapist, first-time mom, and commitment honorer. It's true.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

She shows up at the date and location specified. Every time. Every fing time.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Even when maybe people want me to be on. I don't. Yeah. Sometimes I don't. You you're a commitment honorer, but you're just not on time. I'm a commitment honorer when I am ready.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

You're a plus or minus 15 minutes. Plus, yeah, plus or minus. Yeah, I'm on my own timeline, as my girlfriend would say. That's a very endearing way of saying your shit together. Yeah, she's like, you're on Eevee time, and that's when I'm like, let me get my shit together.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, I'm a little more.

SPEAKER_04 2:48

Let me actually time to go on my apology tour. You should say that to her. Are we starting the apology tour now? No, yeah. I apologize to her a lot. Okay. Yeah. This week. Um, this week we're thinking about the cost of male attention. Um, I have no, that's you. That's me. I have assigned us both. Should we just be honest that you're making the outlines? Well, you just added a lot of things. Oh, that's well, no, that's true though. I assigned us both an artifact and I will be stating my opinion on the ethics of the topic.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

And I'll be disagreeing with your opinion and playing devil's advocate, whether I secretly agree with you or not.

SPEAKER_04 3:30

This week's artifact is the Netflix show, Should I Marry a Murderer? Was it Netflix? I pirated it. You're really into pirating these days. Shout out to Saint.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Wait, I want to know how you got into this.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

Because my friend Jessica. Shout out Jessica. Shout out Jessica if you're listening on your commute. Um, she was like, you have to watch this. Oh. Yes. So really, this is brought to you by Jessica. Jessica. TM. TM. Jessica.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

TM. Sponsored by Jessica. Jessica, yeah. Actually, if you could sponsor us and pay us anything, that would be great.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

She has no money, just like us. Okay. We all have enough money. We're very privileged white people, okay?

SPEAKER_00 4:14

No, I I we're getting a nanny for Ari. Speaking of privileged, problem. Problematic. I know. Um a nanny. Okay, hear me out. Um, we are you gonna get a hot nanny? I should I should have gotten a male nanny.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

A hot nanny. No, if we learned anything about anything, do not get a male nanny.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Well, he's a little gay twink.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

Like I don't care.

unknown 4:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

Twinks cannot be trusted with your baby.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Twinks, I feel like as a rule, don't like babies.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

Yeah. And cannot be trusted.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

The evil twinks that ruined my life. I mean, what an exposure to a drag brunch, though. Like, I think that would be an excellent culturing. Sure. But he's ready.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Anyway. The way he was staring into my eyes, I feel like that was his first time meeting a gay person.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

What about me? I don't count. Yeah, I don't count. Fair enough. Okay. Also, my sister. His auntie.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Alright, fine.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Okay. And let me finish my story. Okay. So we're getting a nanny. And it's very temporary because Vivek's parents are coming back and then are gonna help us take care of Ari, and then he's gonna go daycare. But the cost of this nanny, I was like, actually, it only by $500 a month makes sense for me to work. No, I've heard that many times.

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Yeah, it doesn't make sense for me to work.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

No, it live.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

I mean, that's what we that's how we're getting women back in the home.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

No, actually. No, actually. Yeah. And it is that deep. It is that deep. And like I want to work, and I so I I'm not gonna give up my job, but I was just for the pride. No, literally for the pride, and also because being a stay-at-home mom is harder than working. Yes. Like a thousand times over. Yeah, most people would. And I like put props off to stay-at-home moms, especially if multiple kids that not the right term. Prop. Prop. How to be probably the I'm sober. Yeah. She's breastfeeding right now.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Just kidding.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Ari is not a part of part of the sponsor. I'm gonna cut this. Okay. Um that we can be done with the story. Wait, what is the story? Oh, that I am barely making the money to be working $500 a month as a woman should. I mean, yeah, that's my profit after paying for a nanny. Yeah. That's fucking sick. I know. But she, I mean, honestly, she deserves more money. But so do I.

SPEAKER_04 6:46

Yeah, we all do. Universal basic income. Chant with me now. Okay, so we watched Should I Marriam Marry Should I Marry a Murderer? Thank you. This is a 2026 British True Crime Documentary miniseries released on Netflix on April 29th, 2026, consisting of three hour-long episodes. That is fresh when you say that we're part of the cultural zeitgeist by talking about this.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

I feel like maybe I wrote that wrong in the past. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

But it might have been produced by it's um, it takes place in Scotland. Wales. Whales. Uh-huh. Whales. Okay. Well, anyway, it focuses on forensic pathologist Dr. Caroline Muirhead, who discovered that her fiance, Alexander Sandy McKeller, had killed a cyclist and then covered up the murder. She proceeds to turn her fiance into the police, which leads to an over-year-long investigation process, arrest, and trial. Although you wrote trail. During this time, Mirhead struggles with both the fear and guilt after reporting her fiance, something she does sorry. Something she does not tell him and continues to engage in a relationship with him. Something she states she does out of fear for her safety. She reasons that if he were to discover that she turned on him, it could end poorly for her. Throughout the three episodes, we see her spiral struggle with substance use and mental health. It comes to light that she is the one who turned her fiance in. He's actually sympathetic toward her in and when she when that comes to light. I thought he was gonna kill her. No, but yeah, I mean we all did. Quarant I that is what I would say would usually happen in that type of story. Quarantine happens and she even gets back together with him for a period of time. Once police have finally gathered enough evidence to press charges, a trial occurs and Meerhead flees instead of providing witness testimony. She's arrested and apprehended by police and ends up not testifying as the defendants plead guilty. In the final minutes of the show, we learn that Meerhead has moved to the coast, sought mental health treatment, and has been sober and in a new relationship. Throughout the miniseries, the audience grapples with frustrations over Meerhead's behavior, primarily her continuing to engage in this relationship and at times defend or humanize McKeller. Additionally, there's frustration with the police department around lack of support and protection provided to her during this period, which she later states attributed to her declining mental health and files five complaints against the police. Damn, girl, that's a copy. Let me take a drink.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I You watched this. I watched this at your and summarized it. Off the dome. Didn't even use ChatGPT.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

I you better fucking not have. Yeah, I didn't know. This podcast is over. Um every gnarly word brought to you on to table. Kate TM. Kate TM. This part of the podcast is sponsored by Kate. TM. TM.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Anyways.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Rides Reserved.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

I yeah, I have been to watch this. Like I watched it like all three episodes within three hours. Um and Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

Well, I saved like half of one for the morning.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

I was sleepy.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Um first of all, I want to know just your thoughts on Caroline in your head as a person. Like I liked her. She reminded me of Florence Pugh. You liked her? Yeah. We okay, when we were texting about this, I were I got the impression that you she gave you the ick.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Like she's a complicated woman. Well, we all are. We all are. Shout out to complicated women. No, I actually did I actually did like her. I liked her morally gray, like, way of moving through the world. Interesting. You're so black and white though, so I'm like shocked that you were so receptive to her. I'm black and white, but I've done bad things. You're grey all over. I guess I've I sympathize with her because I've done things that looking back I don't think are morally sound. Sure. And have had to like grapple with that, and so I get that people make bizarre fucking choices.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Yeah. Also, something I do not put in the summary is that she's a doctor, but like it says forensic forensic pathologist, but that means she like worked in the morgue. Yeah, with corpses. With corp yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:26

Which is I think very interesting and requires like a very specific type of personality and intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Yeah, but if you if you were just like witness her in the world, like you would never guess that on her. Like she looks very like cheerleader blonde.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

She's very warm.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

She's very warm, but she like also is like typically pretty, like very, like, I don't know, just someone I would see at a bar.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

It's like the morgue has a certain aesthetic, you would think. It's like the goth girls working in the bag.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

The goth girls, yes. Like, I'm thinking of like goth girls working in the morgue. Forensic fashion.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

It's got intended.

unknown 11:59

It's got that intended.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

But I like if I were to like see her at a bar, I'm like, I'd be like, oh, you like work in marketing or something.

SPEAKER_04 12:05

Like that just goes to show you can't always judge a blonde by her box eye. It's funny. Okay, so point number one. Maybe I should maybe I should reverse argue it. No, I wrote this outline from your perspective. So you're not. Fine. Okay. Women are often willing to turn a blind eye for the sake of a relationship. So both audiences and participants in this documentary expressed frustration over Mirhead continuing to be in the guise of a relationship with McKeller after she turned him in. Several police and a friend shared that she should have distanced herself as quickly as possible once she had learned of his crime.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

So I when when we were like texting about this.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Yes. If this closes show you can't really read tone over text.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Yeah. Because I was like really surprised by your analysis that like you you were also kind of like she did not care for her safety. Like she made choice. Okay, say more about that.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

I really don't like to see women put themselves in unsafe situations. Yeah. And I will be like, dude, you know, don't fucking do that. Yeah. You know, she's so smart and like intelligent, and I feel like her need to be wanted by a man led her to leave her reason behind her. Yeah. And that's like uh very upsetting.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I mean it it very much does give like dating the popular boy at school, like, and then like getting cheated on or like getting like a scandal because that guy is a trash. Yeah. And like you're getting your feelings hurt, and you're like, you're watching this girl get her feelings hurt over and over and over again, and you're like, just dig yourself out of it, like like climb out. Yeah. Um for sure.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

I think it's interesting too because they were like she was in a relationship that ended in betrayal. They never really said, but she was on the heels of some kind of heartbreak, which I think really shows. It really primed her for this situation. Because when you're like heartbroken, yeah, capital H, Capital B, yeah. This part of the podcast sponsored by Heartbreak, um, you can do crazy shit.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

No, I'm not saying everyone does. And well, but you can do crazy shit shit. In this scenario, she did because after a month she got engaged to this man. Yeah. Like after a month, after being in an eight-year-long relationship where they were about to get engaged.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Dr. Beerhead. I know, and that's the other thing too. I'm like, uh doctor. I know. That just goes to show like how like we're all classist. We're all doctors.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

She's just a person. I've told you like I'm like kind of anti-doctor, not in the maha way, but in the like yeah, the maternal maltity rate for black women is triple. For clarifying your stance, white woman.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

But yeah, I like I am a little bit like doctors don't actually know what's going on. No. Yeah. Like both professionally and personally.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

I'm not saying yeah, I will say this. Do doctors know what's going on um with medicine is to be determined, debated, determined. Yeah. Whether doctors know how to handle their personal lives. I think mostly I'm gonna say no.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah, I mean the whole like the stereotype is they're married to their work. In general. Just in general.

unknown 15:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:32

Generalizing. And like as a shout out to all the doctors who listen to this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Do we have any? Well, we have your uh Dr. Ritt listening, your friend who has her PhD. Shout out to Abby this part of the podcast. My husband has a doctor. Abby TM and Vivek TM. I didn't know he had a PhD, dude. How did you not tell me that? Well, you literally five minutes ago, you were like, you're obviously above average intelligence, and I was like, shut up each.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

I know, but you told me, or he told me, he has a PhD, and I feel like that's the first I've ever heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah, because I don't think I have him up like that.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

He's a Leo. We've gone over this. That's so funny. That's impressive though. I guess. Anyways. Stay on his neck, queen. Okay, so in the show, she recognizes her poor judgment and attributes a lot of it to substance use, her mental health, and not working, and the isolation of quarantine. Dude, if you didn't do some crazy shit during quarantine, I will keep going to the city.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Okay, but going back to a man that you know murdered someone and covered up is a different level of quantity. It evolves.

SPEAKER_04 16:31

It evolves. And as situations do, they'd be very generous of you. Yeah, it's like one thing leads to another.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Well, she was like on the show, she admits to like regularly drinking and doing cocaine. I would not be surprised if there was like other substances.

SPEAKER_04 16:47

You haven't seen the drama with Zendaya yet, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:49

I I'm not going to because I I I know, I know, I know. But I've I thought about that. I know I'm I know the spoiler about it. So I thought I don't know. Should we spoil it on this? No, okay. I thought about that a lot because what like what is the worst thing your partner could do and you still say it with them. Yes. Yeah. And also that on two days and a mic, they talked about it. They did. I listened to that too.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

So, yeah, so what is it it sparked the movie is meant to spark a conversation, I assume, of like what's the worst thing you could do. Which here's what I'll ask you if you if Vivek did what Zendaya did, would you still stay with him? Yeah. I think I'd be scared.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

I would be a little scared, especially for a man. I also but then like it in Caroline's defense in this series, like I would be scared to leave him because I would be scared of like, okay, well, what if he's violent towards me? Hmm.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

Is that why she's scared to leave him? I mean, I feel like she also is like is in love with him.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

I think she is too, but what I like I I really thought about her scenario of like what would I do if I was in that position. And I do believe that she was like very scared that like if she were to leave apartment thing, yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

I would also let that happen because I would be like, that's the only way to get away with this.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Right. Like I think she was so scared that she would be found out by him.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

That she thought it was safer to play along than to like break up with him.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

I think maybe she was right, and I also think maybe part of him knew it was her and he was okay with it. Maybe he kind of thought he it's what he deserved, you know? Or else why did he tell her like some part of him was like, I need a moral compass in the situation, you know?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I I mean, I don't know, I'm not a man, but or this person, but I I cannot imagine living with that guilt.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

I could not do it. I can't live with any guilt.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

No, me either. And I I just like I maybe think there was gonna be some part of him that was relieved to be caught.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Yeah, I think so. It eats away at you. There's like a Dostoevsky novel about that.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah. And like even though he ended up getting spoiler alert, like 12 years into it. Wow. That's what crime and punishment is about. The guilt.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

The guilt over murder eating away at someone.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

I mean, like, yeah, I almost feel like that I for me, like that guilt is a thousand times worse than any amount of jail time could be. Like I agree. Like, there's there's no it wouldn't even matter to me to be in jail or not, because I just would feel so.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

I mean, it's easy to say that though, right? I guess.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Are you sure?

SPEAKER_04 19:32

Are you sure you'd be okay with going to jail forever?

SPEAKER_00 19:35

For well, I wouldn't be okay with it, but I think I would like feel but you would put yourself in that situation. I would feel well, I would feel like so guilty. The the pain of guilt I think is gonna be so much worse than jail. And like I I like if I go to jail or not, I would feel like my life would kind of be over at that point.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Yeah, I'm with you on that. But also remember, like, you know, they talk about in the doc like how these boys were desensitized to the taking of life from a young age through hunting. Yeah, which what's your take on that?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Hunting, like, really, I I get like a big disgust reaction from it, and like I eat meat like I'm not a vegetarian, but if I think if I had to like kill my own food, I probably would be a vegetarian, which which goes to show I should probably just be vegetarian, period.

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Right, yeah, I know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Um, but yeah, I I don't know. I don't know how you like look at something alive and kill it.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

You didn't ever you didn't grow up in Texas, but like did you? Were there people in your area who had like deer heads on the wall or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Not really, but there was we had a lot of deer in our like area and there was like a hunting season. Sure, but I never like witnessed it, I never was around people like again. I grew up in a very like progressive area, so I people were not like people didn't own guns. Right. Yeah Ninny.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

So in such an extreme case like this, it has us asking the usual questions. Is there anything we could that men could do that would stop a woman from being with them? Like we said, we also are talking about the Zendaya movie. Um Zendaya and Edward Cullen. Edward Cullen. I'm like, get his ass out of my movie. I he had new.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

You don't like Robert Cottinson?

SPEAKER_04 21:28

He's alright, but I didn't think he and Zendaya had chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

He gives me lesbian vibes.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

By women love to say that about frail men. That's not a wrong. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Um my boyfriend's day, sickly a lesbian. Okay. Do you but do you think that like there are some women who just like will endorse anything a man does? Like I don't think she endorses it. Maybe endorses the wrong word, but like pick the relationship over the morality. What's your question? Do I think everyone will No no no some women? Yes. Like they'll they'll stand by their man, quite unquote.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

Yeah, I think when people are in love, like they do get very irrational.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

And when you love someone and then they reveal something, like have you ever had somebody you love like reveal something dark that they did?

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Have you?

SPEAKER_04 22:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Really? Yeah. We're gonna talk about it? Until you off pod. Okay. I don't think I've had anything. No one knows. Well yeah, okay, good. Obviously.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

Yeah. Well, I mean it's like how like let's say it was just left at the accident. He hit the guy with his car and he didn't bury him, but he didn't call an ambulance. He just drove away.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

I think I could. Do you stay? No, you didn't. No, I couldn't. Like. And so have you watched Shrinking? No. Okay, so in Shrinking. But I love Jason Siegel. Yeah, the main plot line is that Jason Siegel's wife, who is also a mom, gets killed in a drunk driving accident. And a couple season seasons in we meet the guy who like who did it. Who did it. Yeah. And they have this whole like repair and like Yeah. And like he he like, you know, questioned.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

I don't think I could forgive a man for killing my wife.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah, I mean he was like suicidal. Like he was like had given up. Yeah. Like he was engaged and he ended his relationships because he was like, I'm a terrible person. Like you you don't you shouldn't be with me because I'm so terrible. Um and then like left his job and like yeah, was like was suicidal. Um the guy who Jason Siegel. No, no, no. The guy who did it. Who did it? Okay, sure. Um, and so anyways, there's just like really big like healing story in that. And I think in that scenario, like you see his fiance being like, No, I still love you, like I wanna be, we'll work out together. And so for me, like a big part is like rem remorse and yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Morality, like I agree, remorse plays a big part.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yeah. So if this this guy, if McKeller had like hit this bicycler but was like torn up about it, immediately called the ambulance and like all of that. Like, I think I could potentially navigate being in a relationship with someone like that. Yeah, it is like the lack of morality that is really right.

SPEAKER_04 24:20

I mean, it's very interesting of like where do we draw the line in whether people can be redeemed or not.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

And I think like what we see with Caroline is that she does think he's redeemable at times.

SPEAKER_04 24:34

Yeah. Um I think when she has less information, especially. Yeah, but I mean by the time she gets more information, she's so deep.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

So deep in it. But you you kind of like when we were texting about it, like it seemed like you felt like she did it because she was uh infatuated with him, not necessarily because she felt unsafe.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

Yeah, I kinda think that at first. Yeah, do you still feel that way? Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

You disagree?

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Uh kind of, yeah. I think like she it was all strategic. I think it was strategic, but I also think that she was like unwell. Which I don't think you disagree with, but like I think that she was like so unwell that it was less about him as a person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

And yeah, I mean a state of limerence, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah. And more about but like more about her wanting to be wanted.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Yeah, and that's that is That's more what you're saying. I don't know. Like, I guess yes, she wanted to be wanted, but yeah, I don't know. That's a really I think I I still stand by what I said.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

That she was just like so into him that she was willing to excuse his behavior.

SPEAKER_04 25:42

Yeah, but maybe it's the same thing from two different like uh perspectives, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Maybe I think it's less about like I think it's less about excusing men and more about her own self-esteem.

SPEAKER_04 25:52

What do you mean excusing like excusing him? Yeah, I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

You're saying I'm saying she's excusing him for the sake of the relationship, and I'm I'm kind of saying that she was so passive and unwell that she like couldn't couldn't see herself through it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:13

Well, let's move on to point number two.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:16

Women have been conditioned to be complicit and or passive. So that is kind of leading into the next point. Um, why not just leave? You know, why why not where's the instinct to protect yourself? She expresses a lot of fearfulness around him finding out that she reported him and then him harming her as a result. And when he does actually figure it out, he comes to confront her and she fears for her life, but he ends up being gentle, sympathizing with her, and expressing regret about putting her in this position. And then after that, they get back into a relationship. So I think, like you said, that part was crazy to me. Remorse.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

He expressed but I don't think he expressed remorse for his action. Yeah, I know. He expressed remorse for putting her in that position. But she didn't really realize that yet, you know? You think? Yeah. I okay. So something else I want your take on is like I think it's crazy she did a documentary. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

The fact that she agreed to do a whole documentary on She must have really come to see this in a different light. Or okay, this where she wants attention. I kind of think.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

You think she did the documentary for attention? But okay, sh, this will be in our kids our comeback later. So spoiler. But she like is one of those people that filmed herself crying. No, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

Some of those snaps out. The snapchat, the constant Snapchat filters. She was snapping her way through like the most traumatic TSD motion.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

Yeah. She's like, guys, just have a dead body. You know, literally, like, here's my Red Bull can.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

Like, dude, the Red Bull can a shout out to her.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

No. Pops out to her. We at the end of the day, we have to give her credit that she did bring justice to the situation.

SPEAKER_04 28:02

And that's the other thing I want to say is like the lack of systemic support, like she was very lonely. She was very isolated. She was very lacking in support. And when she did try to deal with the situation, the police fucked her over. And she became basically like anti-cop. She went from being like they're gonna take care of it to being like fuck you guys, which is when she kind of like re-got back into abandoned by everybody. Right. So she's like, why did I turn you over to these idiots?

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Right. And like for for what? Because you also aren't getting convicted of anything. Like they're not arrested. I ruined my relationship for nothing.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

Yeah. And like they're just they're just digging through one millimeter of soil at a time. That was crazy. I I was like livid. I was like, is this really what we're dealing with? Like, come on. That's the level of competency that we have in our like. I mean, yes, you have to be careful, but like the real world works in a certain way. Like society works in a certain way. This woman is in danger. Find that fucking body. She crushed the Red Bill can, get a shovel, and go. And dig, bitch! Dig. Like Zendaya Doug in the last episode of Euphoria.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I didn't watch it. You didn't. No, on purpose. Because she kind of digs her own grave. Okay. That like literally. Yes. Oh. Literally. That's really more good than. She's dead. I don't believe you.

SPEAKER_04 29:23

Zendaya Zended. Okay. This example seems to be reflective of a larger issue of women feeling like they can never say so. Never say so.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Never say no.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

Oh. Never say no. And improve read. And have to be docile and accommodating for fear of being cast as a villain or a bitch. I don't is that what she was afraid of? When entering romantic relationships with men, women often feel they have to appease them, whether that be for continued attention or safety. Yeah. Yeah. And what's the line between continued attention and safety? Like I feel like it is a blurry line.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

I think back to like when I was working in the school with you, and I would have a lot of these teenagers in my office. Yes. Def defending their trash relationships. Like swearing up and down this is the person they're gonna end up with, that they are never felt this way before. And I'm like, yeah, you're 15, you have never felt this way before. Every day's new emotion. Um and I just like I actually think though that like some adults are very much like that, um, where they don't really get out of that phase of like feeling like their current romantic relationship is the end-all be all. Um and I think women are in a what is the word I'm looking for? Like they're in a more vulnerable position because in society they hold us power. Um, and so I think like going back to like the idea that women will do a lot to maintain the attention or the relationship with a man um is more based on the fearfulness of what what's happened if I'm single, like what's my value, what's my work?

SPEAKER_04 31:15

That's where we get quote unquote like the drama, right? Like women who are drama, it's like an attention-seeking ploy, like reminds me of Huda. Yeah. And it's like she is seeking like love and safety.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

But yeah, it's a thin line sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

And I well, I when again, when we were like talking about the show Off Pie, you were talking about how like women don't feel like they can say no. Um and that they have to like Yeah, they have to be polite and like protect men almost.

SPEAKER_04 31:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

They don't want to be rude, okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

That's how, you know, like that's the vibe.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yeah, and including covering up your partner's murder. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

Don't be rude. Cover up your partner's murder.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Well, and I but I do think that there is like the the like ride or die mentality, you know, like like if you're loyal to your man, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

Yes, yeah, ride or die. I mean that's what it means, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:11

No, and like literally in this scenario.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

Um, but she her empathy got to her because she looked up the guy. Is that what If anything turned her? Yes. I think she googled the guy and her empathy, she literally says, like, he was a father, he was a husband, like someone was waiting for him to come home, like he was the same age as my dad. Yeah, like that's a fucking human being. Like, and that empathy like struck that chord within her, and that was ultimately more powerful.

unknown 32:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Which is why, like, cultivating empathy in our kids is our boys, our boys do.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Yeah, yeah. And well, and that that's the point that the police make is that they these two men who covered up the murder, they didn't have a lot of empathy. And and you see him talking about how like they were in school. Well, how they were in school, but also how McKeller was essentially like he shouldn't have even been on the road, like what was he doing that late at night, going on a 70-mile car, like literally victim blaming. Um, and like Yeah, like I I think that was also a big turning point for her when he would like switch and suddenly become like this really like toxic, scared.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

I don't care about this human's life, right? Um, and like that is either my life or his.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

That is why I kind of feel like she did have that fear and is was more responding to the fear, like kind of doing the like fawn response where she had to be passive in order to protect herself, and it was less about like the social conditioning of women and more about like I have to fawn and pretend in order to survive.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

But how is that different from the social conditioning of women?

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Cause I think a fawn response is like a trauma response. I think it is like separate from like women like the like I do think being passive can be a social conditioning of women, but I think her response in this moment was about safety rather than like a gender dynamic.

SPEAKER_04 34:15

Right, but it's so hard to disentangle the two.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah, I I like I don't fully disagree with that, but I I do think that like when you are so like when you're genuinely afraid for your life, like you're trying to survive.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Yeah, I would agree. Or well, I disagree until the end. Until the end. Okay, should we do part point three? Sure. Okay, systems, particularly criminal justice systems, do not understand the gravity of what it takes for a woman to hold a man accountable. A lot of words. Sometimes your sentences don't make sense. But I still love you. Um It makes you sweep me when you say that loud. The that's because I changed some of the words on the fly. I put it through the making sense filter. Okay, I'm just messing with you. You're not. I mean, yeah, but like I'm not mad. I've been angry lately. I think something is in Aries. I saw it on TikTok. And you're thinking about decreasing your Prozac?

SPEAKER_03 35:31

You don't have to say that on pod.

SPEAKER_04 35:34

I'm thinking about my Alexa Pro. If it's making me sweaty, just the sweat is making me more stressed.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah, if you're sweating a lot, FYI listener, if you're sweating a lot, check what medications you're on. And then what? Don't go off your meds, people.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

Just be sweaty. Just be awake by an antiperson. You like really made me click um some buttons together. I don't know. Okay. Put some ideas together. Regardless of this woman trying to fight her demons, whether she was in love or afraid for her life, or you know, she was being a pick me.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

We cannot say that. Is it pick me to marry a murderer? Title of the pod. Take it take the note note taker. I will. If you can. Let's see you try to type. I'm sober. I know you're just bad at typing. I'm not bad at typing. I'm just bad at putting sentences together. Sorry. Sentence I can.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

And she's sober. Yeah, I'm sober. And she's sober. We okay, as a society, regardless, this woman was not a perfect victim. Okay, she made some really questionable choices. That is clear. However, when she got her ass to the police, and then they were no fucking help, I was fucking pissed. No, literally. And this is a tale as old as time. They're like, we don't have enough. And then they're like, we're gonna dig through to find this body with a plastic spoon. Just one moment, please, while she's got the murderer staying at her house because otherwise it would be suspicious. I'm like, this is y'all just let women die. Like, y'all just let women die.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

And then the the final few scenes of the documentary where she reminded me. She's hard as a kite scavenging over the hills to the border and then plays Jeanne Le Grand Prien or whatever. That was so me. That was like art. That was beautiful. That was beautiful. Like psychosis are not incredible.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

She's definitely made for theater. No, a hundred percent. No, for sure. When she was snapping herself trying to find the murder victim's bike under a waterfall while cracked out on cocaine and playing Geneva Catlion for her Snapchat following. I was like, honestly, this is the type of crash out I can relate to. 100%. I that would totally be me, dude. I was like, I'd be like, I'm gonna drive 17 hours and just check all 12 waterfalls while I'm hopped up on drugs, dude. Please fucking drive four. With the little background music. Absolutely, there would be music. I would probably make a playlist that's like driving to find the murder victim bike from my boyfriend's murder victim playlist 2026. And guess what? I'd I'd be checking my steps too.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

You know what? She did more police work than the actual police.

SPEAKER_04 38:39

And then they were like, well, she's a doctor. We thought she knew. And then they arrested her. They arrest her for doing their job. Well, she she knew that was her court date. She was being dramatic. No, I fair enough. She knew she skipped out on court on purpose. Give her a little credit. Get your shit together and go tell the court what you saw. Look at the boyfriend in the eyes and tell him. Tell them he shared his little pillow talk secret with you and you told the fucking police. Like an adult.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

But yeah, the police did not protect her.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Yeah. She, I do think, I'm curious, like if you would aren't her diagnose her with anything. She certainly seemed to be in a manic or like psychotic episode. I'm not really sure what is the difference. Yeah. But something bad was happening in her brain. No, very bad. Um understandable. But she was also on drugs.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

And you can argue on drugs. You can have substance-induced psychosis as well. Gotcha. And so I think that like no could have played a big role. Um, but she was like, I think she was on well from the get-go. Like to get engaged after a month of knowing somebody, and like this man you met on essentially Tinder, and she was heartbroken. She was heartbroken, and then she was like, Let me go to the hills and drink and drive, and like exactly relatable queen and marry this random ass farmer.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

Like, yeah, that's like really relatable to me.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

Shut up. I'm getting my heartbroken and then just being like, I'm gonna go fucking batch. Real. I'm gonna go frolic in the hills. Real. She was like, nothing matters anymore.

SPEAKER_01 40:19

And then COVID hits, I'd be like, bitch, I do need to start doing drugs.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

COVID was like a big, big factor. And I think COVID made me insane. Right. That was really overlooked in the doc, but I do think that like it sounded like people were reaching out to help her outside of the like the police, like her family, her friends, and like she just totally withdrew and went back to this man.

SPEAKER_04 40:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

I mean Which goes back to your original point.

SPEAKER_04 40:50

What's my original point? That she was just so infatuated with him. Love can make you do crazy things, even if it's limerence, even if it's mental illness, whatever you want to call it, because like falling in love, you know, I don't know, there's a psychosis to it. And it can be hard to tell the difference when you are mentally ill. Yeah. But regardless, like there should be this always goes back to like the systems in place that are failing us. And I'm like, okay, so the UK is not doing better. No, not any better. There's no magical, like, we move out of America and then we don't have to deal with this anymore solution.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Um, I it was really crazy to me that like she reported him and then they were just like, okay, we'll keep you posted. Didn't offer Keep you posted. Yeah. It is crazy. And then came to her apartment and they were like, Why are you with him? You're you're the one who told us you're the murder. The number one witness. This girl killed. No, literally, and they they didn't offer her any like witness protection. They didn't offer her any victim services, which is like mental health stuff.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

And that that's when they were like, we thought she knew what was available because she's a doctor.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

I'm like, Once again, doctors don't know shit. She's just a person. No, literally.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Doctors are personal.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

She works with dead people. What do you think her social skills are? Like such a good point.

SPEAKER_04 42:05

I mean, there's gotta be, yeah, maybe some. No, I mean, not that well, anyway. So, yeah, there's basically it's a it's such a stark reminder that there's no guarantee that just because you do the right thing, like, you're gonna be okay. Right. It made me be like, Mama, think real hard before making that decision. Like, I guess I gotta dig up the body and go take it to the police.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

Yeah, the the liability is on the women who are reporting these men. Yeah. And like why do you think that women don't report men? Because no one protects them. Yeah. Like, there's like no point. And then they fear for their lives. Like 100%. I just like I I was really shocked at and I guess I shouldn't have been because they're men, but like I was really shocked at the police kind of being like, Well, she made all these dumb choices. Like, she shouldn't have put herself in harm's way. And I'm like, so you want her to not report the crime? You want her to not help you? Like, that would truly not be putting herself in harm's way. What I don't understand how you think that, like, being engaged to a murderer, you just get out of that scot-free if you report him.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

That was the logic was insane to me.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

Yeah. Tough times. I think she she followed her heart throughout. The whole time. Yeah. You know, she she's a smart woman and she and also she followed her heart.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

She did not follow her head through this story.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

No.

SPEAKER_04 43:31

And as a double Pisces, I'm like, that's real as fuck. Like, and speak on that. I'm also stupid. So let's get to the hard truth. I think we were both pretty honest about our opinions too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

And I don't feel like we disagreed as much this episode as we have in the past.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

Yeah. Well, play devil's advocate harder. I know. But yes, I I think uh it is a very nuanced situation. Ultimately, I think we both agree that. She was not mentally doing well, and also that there's like a social element to there's a gender dynamic to it that can't be ignored. Whether you want to say that's like societal pressure, or whether you want to blame her, like there are a lot of things women will do for love, and they're taught that like their own personal safety and like even like the right to safety, yeah, is is not as important as like soothing the feelings of a man.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Right. Well, I think like because they put as a society, we've been told that there's so much more value in you being a woman in a relationship than being a woman who is single. Right. Um loneliness. I mean, loneliness is a killer, but not even like loneliness of just like you don't have value if you aren't in a relationship like my friends are getting married, all my friends are having babies, I want to be in that group, I want my moment, or that you're like unlovable because you're not, and like men don't find you attractive, and so you're lucky when somebody like pays attention to you. Right, and I think that to me, I bet that that is what was going through her head when she entered into a relationship with this man, feeling really unloved by her ex-partner. Yeah, um, yeah, and then like especially I don't know if you remember the first episode, she was like had one of the things she really loved about this first this uh guy was that like he let her sing in the car.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Yeah, I know. And so that broke my heart, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:28

And so, like, this woman has probably been told she's too much, she's annoying, like all these things. A man does love her for who she is, quote unquote. And like, yeah, I think that that is why in my head this feels like less of a gender thing and more of a like she was not well, like she was like her self-esteem was so low, and like she was already in such a vulnerable position that she got into this like really scary situation because she was willing to look past all the red flags.

SPEAKER_04 45:57

Right, exactly, yeah, and on that we very much so agree. Yeah, that's like the perfect summary of that.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yeah, I do agree with you, like in general, the gender dynamic, but in this uh instance, I think she was just like so vulnerable, yeah, and taken advantage of.

SPEAKER_04 46:14

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So how much like to what degree do you blame her? Like, is there any degree that you're like, girl, what the fuck? I don't think at all, actually. Really, not at all. What what would I blame her for? For going back to the to be like being with him after.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

I don't think I well, I mean like I think that's dumb, but like I like like I don't blame her because she still reported him. Like this was after she reported him and he knew he she reported him.

SPEAKER_04 46:50

And she was kind of just waiting, I guess. She was waiting to see if the police would do anything.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

And then and then this was also after he like basically said he wasn't gonna hurt her anyway. Like he was like, I feel bad, I put you in this position. So I think it was it was dumb, but like I don't really blame her for like her like sense of safety or yeah, um the heart is a mysterious thing. What about you though?

SPEAKER_04 47:14

I would agree. I think that there's maybe like 15 to 20 percent of me that's like judging her a little bit. Yeah, maybe less, 10 to 15. Yeah, but mostly I'm like relatable as fuck. See, I actually don't like her. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Yeah, like I don't really blame her for anything, but I don't I would say I liked her. So that's really Yeah, you did. You literally threw that to be. Oh yeah, she reminds me of Florence Pugh. But yeah, I like I found her like kind of frustrating.

SPEAKER_04 47:42

She was a little annoying at times.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah. Um like I I again like I'm I don't like think she's a villain by any means, but I like wouldn't like engage with her very much if I were to like meet her in the wild. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

But women don't have to be likable, you know? Don't put that on them.

SPEAKER_00 47:59

Yeah. Men get away with it all the time. Exactly. They have whole podcasts.

SPEAKER_04 48:04

So I guess moving on to our cancel or comeback. Um cancel or comeback, crime docks.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Ugh, I'm actually a major cancel on this. I think that we have way too many. I'm tired of the whole like crime genre in general. Yeah. Let's solve the crimes. Let's not make movies about them. Correct. Maybe if we stop digging with spoons. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 48:27

Put down the camera, pick up a shovel.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

TM.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

TM.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Do you agree though? Cancel your crime box.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Yeah, I'm not huge into them, but when I love cult cult ones. When they're like exposing a cult, I'm like, delicious.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Yeah. I I do think, well, that is like doing the Lord's work. Yes. Yeah. You gotta tell the people.

SPEAKER_04 48:49

No, you gotta tell the people. You gotta tell the people. Um cancel or comeback, ride or die mentality.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

I'm also canceling this one. I just think that like even in friendships, it's such a problematic ride or die. Yeah. It's like you should be on the side of the truth.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

You should be on the side of the truth and morality. And morality. That being said, I'll make one exception. Ride or die for my girl. I because honestly, I'm being honest that if she does something bad, I probably will just help her. So if she did the thing that they didn't know, I mean, I would definitely be like, don't you think you would feel better if you turned yourself into the police? And we would talk about it.

unknown 49:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

But you're like, I'll be with you in court.

SPEAKER_04 49:38

Yeah, I'd be like, listen, guys, she was going through a dark time. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Hear me out, hear me out, hear me out.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

For the the drama, the Zendaya thing, I would stay with her for sure. Because she didn't actually do it. Yeah. I mean, yeah. If that were not the case, that would be that would be a very yeah, that would be a very different conversation, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Yeah. Well, yeah, I hope so.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

Well, yeah, but I mean there are that's part of the question, right? Is like, is it just as bad to think it? I don't think it's just as bad to think it.

unknown 50:07

Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Let's hope not.

unknown 50:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:10

Okay. Um so cancel or comeback Snapchat filters. I think come back. I kind of missed them. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

No, I miss I missed a little the one.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

The flower crown.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

The flower crown and the deer one.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Yeah. I think they were kind of like they were kind of, what's the word?

SPEAKER_04 50:28

Um whimsical. Whimsical, yeah. No, dude. I don't need to see a dog tongue. Get out of here. They were fun. You're not fun. Oh my god. And everybody would screenshot the flower crown as their profile picture, and everything was all like smoothed out.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

This was the last time we were united as a nation.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

In a bad way. We were doing war crimes in the Obama era. Never forget. Um, cancel or come back filming yourself crying.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

I know I shot on this earlier, but I I think I love to see it on my TikTok. Cancel me doing it. Yeah, come back and everyone else.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

Taylor Frankie Paul doing it.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

No, literally.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

Go ahead, honey. I'm curious. We're we are the problem. I know. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Also, speaking of being the problem, I listen to Lena Dunham's memoir.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Okay, what'd you think though?

SPEAKER_04 51:23

I'll show you my review. Okay. On um StoryGraph, because I don't support good reads because they're through Amazon. Here's what I'll say. Speaking of unlikable female characters. Should I read my review? Yes, let's hear it. Read reading review live on the pod of Lena Denham's memoir, which I just finished, like on the way over. She does a remarkable job of not redeeming herself. Yes. And here's and I'll say two things at the end. I'll say maybe actually one thing at the end. Okay. Here's what I wrote. And what I'll say is. And here's what I'll say. If you think Lena Dunham is a whiny, self-involved, privileged narcissist, this memoir will not change your mind. The graphic medical The graphic medical details made me wince less than the descriptions of how Dunham's parents coddled her like a spoiled child deep into her 30s. Aside from the very real chronic illness, so many of the struggles of this self-important Nepo baby were brought on by her self-destructive decisions, which are characterized in the classic white woman style of a little girl who doesn't know better. If it's half as exhausting to read this book as it is to know her, my hat is off to the patience of the much maligned side characters in this book. A truly tough read from the infamous white feminist, a study in self-pity, but at the end of the day, I did finish it.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

I mean, you like it's like watching girls, right? Like you can't look away. It was compelling, and I I I she's a good writer. I yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:52

You can be unlikable as fuck and be a good writer. She is a bad person, but she is she can turn a sentence. And somehow I kept listening.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

And to be honest, I would rather pay her money than Joe Rogan. So, you know, like I mean, beware the white feminist. I mean for sure. And I just think that she's a spectacle.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

And I like I wonder. And I can't look away. Like Taylor Frankie Paul. Like, do I think Taylor Frankie Paul's somebody to look up to? No. But can I look away? Also, no.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

But do you think Lena Dunham like knows she's a spectacle and plays into it? Like, is it on purpose a little bit?

SPEAKER_04 53:32

I yes, but that doesn't make me feel better.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 53:36

Okay, cancellor come back. The side journey. Those wigs the judges wore in the dock. Do you know what I'm talking about? What wigs? Oh, the old tiny wigs? Yeah. Like you're appearing before the crown. I was like, whoa. No, they literally said the crown. I know. Yeah. It's like because it's like the state V, it's like the crown Vice Lady. The people, yeah. Really weird. Um, the wigs are cunt though.

unknown 53:59

They're like cut.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

But they were bizarre because they had like short little hair on top and then these like curls in the back. I know, I know. I I'm cancel. I mean they're ugly. They're ugly as fuck, but they're they were again kind of whimsical. And I was like, let's bring dragon courtroom. The UK is kind of whimsical. It's evil. It's evil. And whimsical. But also they have like fairy hills. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:23

It's cute out there.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:24

It's cute out there. Alright. If you have something to say, keep it to yourself. First of all, keep it to yourself. If you really need to say something, you can email us at true friendspod at gmail.com. I deactivated my Instagram again. We'll see. This is a journey that'll never end. I dump phoned my phone, and I'm feeling very um I'm proud of you. I'm feeling I might be going through a romantic episode also. So, but anyway, you can find me some places on the internet at the Better Bradshaw. I don't think that's where I am on Story Graph. So if you want to read my reread my take on Lena Denham's memoir, you'll have to find me another way. Um but I do have a column in the free press. Let's get print media, folks. It's coming back every two weeks. Two weeks it's coming back. Well, it gets printed every week, but my column's only in it every two weeks. Um, you know, if you live in Austin, pick it up, it's free and it's everywhere. Join us next week and subscribe and review to become a true friend of the pod. Bye!