Episode 24: Are men lonely...or lazy? (Summer of Love Series!)

Kate and EB discuss whether the "male loneliness epidemic" is actually just a "male laziness epidemic." Our artifact for the summer is Love Island USA Season 8! We debate our opinions about why Gen Z men seem to shy away from emotional vulnerability and authenticity, the burden of emotional intelligence and labor that seems to default to women, and how the patriarchy hurts all genders.

Sources:

• Love Island USA Season 8

Questions? Compliments? Criticisms? Email us at: truefriendspod@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Fucking gall, dude. I was like, I can't even remember his name half the time. How do you have the gall? Yeah. Number one. To come in here, nobody gives a flying fuck about you. And fuck up your only connection and call Jen of all people aggressive. No, she's the most passive one in there. I want whatever prescription she's on because the worst things happen in her whole bag.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Like, okay. No, I feel so bad for her. Like, she what? She's kind of screwed over something.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Sorry, because she's new. She goes, I've been here three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Alright. Welcome to True Friends, an everyday ethics podcast where we discuss the complexities of the decisions we all have to make. From beauty standards to politics during our hot defense on modern date.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

You might not always agree, but we'll give you our honest opinions of a true friend. I'm Evie, a part-time writer, full-time lesbian, and never nude for feet.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I don't like how you worded that. Okay, you go. I'm Kate, licensed therapist, first time mom, and bad with money.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Uh oh. I know. What does that mean? Like you're an impulse shopper?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Um, okay. Recently I have been. I don't know if I'm it's like the working from home and I'm like It's about to be summer. Yeah, I'm like seeking that dopamine hit. But also I just like never really kept a budget. I just kind of like check my bank account and I'm like, do I feel like I have enough money for this thing? And if yes, so then I go do it. Wow. Um, but I also think we talked about this. The bad thing that has shifted for me is that I get paid all in one lump sum at the beginning of the month instead of bi-weekly. And it is not good. It's not good for me. Not good.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

At the end of the month, I'm like, whoa, I'm a little scared. Yeah. Okay, but also never news for feet. Yeah, I'm as you pointed out, I'm pretty much always wearing socks.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Is it like a safety blanket?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah. I don't like to have my feet out, it just makes me feel very vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Interesting. You and most of the internet.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah. I but I've been like that way before it was cool, right? Way before I was paid a blank. It's tough in the summer, let me tell you. Because I'm hot.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Well, that's why I brought it out because I was like, You came over in socks and sandals, and I was like, is she not sweating? Yep. Oh, yeah. Okay, well.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

And I'm sweaty. Yeah. And I'm sweaty, so we're still committing to the socks. I'm girls, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

There are worse things. Yeah. Okay. For our next few ethical dilemmas and past ethical dilemmas, we have been watching from watching and pulling from Love Island as our summer of love series. Yeah, we've been watching season eight of Love Island USA.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

As our part-time jobs, in addition to this part-time job. Yeah, it is it is exhausting.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

No, it is. I'm drained. I'm upset. No, emotionally, the emotional labor of watching this show was not something I fully expected. And I watched past seasons, but this one in particular, I feel like is more emotionally draining.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Yeah, when Melanie said I'm drained, I felt that. No, literally. I was like, meat.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

I'm also like, I'm scared of Melanie. Like if I met her in real life, I would be scared of her. Oh, why? Because I feel like she would like eat me alive if I did anything wrong. That's so funny. Like, she she's like powerful. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I that's why I'm scared of her.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Like, that's why I'm attracted to her. I know, I know. She in this past episode, she did remind me of my girlfriend for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

I could see that. Well, when she like got down and talked to Anaya when Anaya was crying, I was like, damn.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

She said, This he's a little ass dude, bro. There's a life outside of here. No, get the fuck up.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

She was preaching. I loved that. It made my head tingle. Yeah, I was valued her, or at least the production airing that part. Because I was like, as much as she's fucking around with Sincere and letting him play in her face, she's a girl's girl.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I have never turned on Melanie, I will say. Like I've been critical of her, but a lot of people have been like, I don't like her, blah blah blah blah blah. And I've been like, y'all are just not seeing the good in her.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Well, I do think I think it talked about it's like I think a lot of it has to do with her being in a bigger body previously and like having probably a lot of like fat shaming and like men fat shaming her, but also like like what's the word, fetishizing her.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah, I mean maybe we don't know what her experience was like. We don't know how she got to be this way. I just think she's been put through it. That's what I do know.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

I think she's been through.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

This girl's been through some shit.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Yeah. Speaking of, yeah, this week's artifact is the male laziness epidemic. Oh, I like how you put that. Why do we think why do men think relationships should be effortless?

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah. Okay, that makes me I really like how you how you tied it all together.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Um, okay, go on.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Well, I'll be uh stating my opinion, and you will be I will be disagreeing to the best of my ability while still, you know, not being insane, and I'll reveal my real opinions at the end of the episode.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Before we get into our hard truths, I am curious if we want to debrief kind of like what has happened the past few episodes.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Yeah, so we just episoded. Sorry. We just finished episode what 23? I can't count anymore. This is They've done more episodes in like three weeks than we have done for our whole podcast. Post Casa. Oh damn, these producers are working their asses on that. No, they are working holy full time. Like they're there's probably around the clock. 30 of them. They are doing ketamine and coke in that in that command center or whatever. Okay, uh, yeah, so it's been the trip to casa, the casa recoupling, the aftermath of the casa recoupling, the Magnastallion arrival. Yeah, they always bring her in after casa, and I'm like, thank god, their vibes were rancid. They were low. And we are this is before movie night. Movie night is tonight. I know.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So just to situate you, I feel like by the time we re air this, this doesn't matter anymore. I know so much is gonna have changed by that point, but whatever. Um, it'll be an artifact by tomorrow. By tomorrow. Some highlights I want to name are that KC talked around and found out. Yeah. Um, and he is now with I'm TT. Yeah. I'm T T. I'm T T. You saw my Instagram story? Yes, I did. Loved it. Um, but he played in Anaya's face. Yeah. Anaya got really hurt. Um, and then they brought brat brat. They brought Carl back. Yeah. Um, who was one of the men from Costa. Interest from Costa. Yeah. Yeah. Um, are we getting into the first point? Are you still just prefacing? I'm still prefacing. Okay. Because it's relevant. Okay. Corbin.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Okay, but truly, honestly, like met his match. I actually do understand why they're. What's her name again? Parmida. Parmida. Yeah. Parmita GPT. Like literally.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Parmida GPT. Yeah. I don't appreciate, I will say, how people are calling her Parmesan or Parmesan cheese. I haven't seen that. Okay. Why? We're on different parts of the internet. I just don't think it's cool to use somebody's name like that. And also, especially when they're not a white person, or like.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yes, I get why you don't appreciate it, but why am I calling her that?

SPEAKER_01 7:39

To make fun of her. Parmesan. Yeah, Parmesan. There's nothing else to it. That's that's why I'm like low-hanging fruit.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Like, it's not even funny. I feel like there's a lot we can say, but that's not one of the things. But yeah, she's as monotone as he is. Yeah. But dead in the eyes.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

And she's like, he's like, she's like, hello.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

And then they're just like, you're so hot, no, you're so hot. No, you're so hot. Oh, we both like lunch.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Like, we both, yeah, we both like music. No, they don't. They actually don't talk about music. They're so fucking annoying. Ugh. They're okay. If you had to right now get rid of Sincere, Corbin or Casey, who are you dumping? Casey 1000%. Wow, really? Well, who are you dumping? I just think that they're all evil in their own ways.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

I think Corbin is dumb and mean.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I disagree that he's dumb. I think that Casey is copying Corbin. And I do not think that Casey would act like that if Corbin were not there. And I think I would choose Corbin to send home.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

But I at this point to me Corbin is like relatively harmless. Because he's at this point.

unknown 8:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

That's what you asked though. Yeah, I guess that's true. That's true. I don't know though. I I don't know that he's harmless. I think KC is like diabolical though. Like I agree. And I think Sincere is like nice and dark. I think Sincere, no, I think he's one of the scariest ones in there.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Because we've like flip-flopped because I feel like you were like a slight sincere defender last episode. I know. And now he gets me. I feel like I am more so okay. He he like I do think it is kind of like still ego-driven, but I do think he forgot our argument from last time. I think that he's scared. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

I think he's like terrified of the world. But from a perspective of protecting women, like at least Corbin and KC will eventually show their hideous ass. Sincere is he's draining the life out of her because she can't escape the niceness of him and like him being likable. And it is hard to it's a hard watch.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

It's a hard watch. I but I I don't know, like I don't know. Melanie is is really in that too, and and like plays a big role in that chaos. Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

It will be interesting to see. I'm like, Melanie just needs a good man. And Corey wasn't it by the way. No was not a good man. No, by the way. Yeah. Did you see After Sun? No or hear about his comments. He was like, if I could give Casey his flowers, I would. He did he stood ten toes down. I respect him. Ew. Yes. And he was like trying to, they were trying to blame Trinity and the only one who like for getting so heated and starting the whole argument, and the only one who defended her was Carl. Carl, no. Carl has been T from the minute he walked in. I know. I just wish his name wasn't Carl. That's the one thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Really I think turn off funny and I like it.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

I just like I couldn't be like Carl.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

He's beautiful, sweet, smart, like the whole package, in my opinion. Like, if he had come in initially, I think he would have made it a lot harder.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Okay, let's get into it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

So go go for it.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Point number one. Yeah. The minute, the minute a slightly difficult conversation is had, the men are tapping out. Yes. Like they are just like, oh, she's so dramatic. Why is she why she doing this? Like, I'm now questioning everything. Like I I've never seen a bunch of pusties. Like, I know. Like, I am just like, are you really so emotionally incompetent that you can't stand a girl just being like, hey, take me seriously?

SPEAKER_01 11:36

No, for sure. I mean, and the 22 of them is the 22-year-oldness of them is really showing. And the COVID high schoolerness of them is showing. And who raised you is showing. The who's who I want to talk to your mom. I know. I I don't want to grab another woman, but yes, I did think it was interesting when when KC pulled a knife or a chat and then said, you go first.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

I was livid. I was like, I'm turning TV off. This is where I'm tapping out. Like I can't, I cannot watch this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

And when she actually, I was really proud of her for not getting into like the the ego combative element of it. She just told it like it was, and he was hanging his head low. He looked like he was gonna cry. Like there is some shame in there.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Well, calling him a coward, yeah, like the red pill in him could not handle it. And that's exactly what he is. No, he, yeah. I I was like giving him the benefit of the doubt when we last recorded, but since then I'm like, you were right. Like he is red pilled, he thinks that like he's the victim in every single scenario. And he's a prize. That he's a prize, somehow the victim and the prize. Yeah, like the duality of that will never not be astounding to me. Yeah. And he is shocked when women don't chase him. Yeah. Like he's like, How am I not the one that people want? And then he found TT. T T.

unknown 13:05

I know.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

Um, but yeah, I TT, we could also do like a whole episode on. I know, but I feel like we shouldn't. Have you seen the backstory about her being on multiple reality shows?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

I I've seen theories that she's older than she's saying she is.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah, because she's been on these other reality shows.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

And yeah, anyways.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

I don't want to I don't think we should discuss too much about TT. No, no, no. Um, but beyond Casey, I also think several other, almost all the men aside from Bryce, have shown this like weakness around having any difficult conversations. Cowardice, yeah. Yeah, any difficult conversations.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

And by the way, we're not saying cowardice because they're men, like it's just cowardice, gender-neutral cowardice.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

So like when Zack Yes, let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

When Zach has any potential threat of Kata being interested in anybody at all, he loses his fucking mind. Yeah. And I'm like, you don't even like her. Like, first of all, you do not like her. You just don't want to appear like you're losing the game.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Right. He was also saying bad things about the women, all the women behind their back. Not just his connection. But like when Sincera is complaining about Melanie, he's like, yeah, she ruined the vibes of Casa or whatever, or like the vibes that were in here. He was talking shit about Trinity to Bryce. Like he is always criticizing the women and enabling and building up the men. No, he's a gossip queen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Like he But it's lies. It is lies. He loves to stir the fucking pot. And then he also gaslights Kata into her just even having a small conversation with anybody, but then we'll be like, oh, would you be mad if I fucked a new bombshell? Right. Like, what no, he doesn't like Kata.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

No, he does not like Kata. It's so obvious. It's so obvious. It makes me sad that she can't tell because I think she's great. No, I think so too. I do, I would love to see her with a woman. Honestly, if she and Anaya or she and Melanie got together, I think she and Melanie would work out. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I would like to actually see Anaya and Melanie together. I think they have like a true friendship though.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

That's fine.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Okay. Plus more. I I do think, yeah, there's definitely some bi girls in there, and and I wish Kato was one of them. Yeah. Um oh yeah. Fucking gall, dude. I was like, I can't even remember his name half the time. How do you have the gallery number one? To come in here, nobody gives a flying fuck about you, and fuck up your only connection and call Jen of all people aggressive. No, she's the most passive one in there. I want whatever prescription she's on because the worst things happen to her will be like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

No, I feel so bad for her. Like she what? She's kind of screwed over so many times.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Sincere goes, because she's new, she goes, I've been here three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

That's crazy. That was crazy that Sincere said that.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

I was like, Sincere, you're not, you're not helping while she's feeling at all. He's like, you're not. She he's like, it's hard to pull other people in here. She was like, yeah, that's how it is. And he's like, you're being so aggressive. He's the worst. What do you want me to do? I fucking hate that guy. And it's like, I don't even care about you enough to hate you, and you made me care enough to hate you. Yeah, you put in the work to earn our hatred. What the fuck? And who what are you trying to do? Kenzie. Fucking around. Fucking around. Like, I'm not sh slut shaming, but I am slut naming.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

I just like. What girl, what? I understand wanting to have a roster, but this is not the time and place.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

She loves being caught between two people. She got a taste of it and she could not let.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

She, I mean, she's a fear. Similar energy. She goes, I'm confused. I'm confused. And then clam slams on the ground.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

That girl can do the splits. I've kind of come around to hating her less though. No, okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

This is okay. Two things. One, I I have seen people call her clam slamming as stimming. That's funny. It kind of is. It kind of is. And then also I have seen some Kenzie defenders on TikTok. She's not the worst. She's not the worst. And like if she's not a Trump supporter, then I I actually could come around to her. Um, well, white women gotta stick together, am I right? But like the girls seem to also be protective of her, which is interesting to me. So I'm like, she has built some real friendship.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

What she doesn't do though, like is cow to men. Like when she she handed Corbin his ass, she said, I would never let even a friend put me down like that. And I was like, honestly, period.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah, period, stand on it.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Like I'm like, oh okay, well, it's okay. She said, I wouldn't let anybody treat me like that, bitch. And like exactly, exactly correct.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

And speaking of Corbin getting called out like that, he was shocked. And I was like, What? Why are you talking about it? He didn't know his shit was broadcast. No, well, he didn't know he's already his shit rocked either. Like, I was just like, Oh, so no one's ever hold held you accountable in your whole life. Like, no one's ever done that. And you do see him kind of back down a little bit, like an episode or two later, he's being like, Yeah, I kind of get why they're mad.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

I think once Megan, the stallion, came in and said, I don't fuck with you, to to Corbin and Casey, essentially, she gave them that energy. Yes. A, they were embarrassed because they hold her up as we all do. And B, they realized how they're coming across to the outside world. I think Meg gave them insight that they are not charming the public like they maybe thought they were. And they're like, oh, I better show some contrition. I don't even think that it's real.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

I don't think it's real either. I think they're just like, well, first of all, now that he has permitted, I think he just is like, I'm just playing a game till we can walk out. He closes it off just like randomly. Well, he knows the show's about to end. I do think he like, I would not be surprised if they continue to date after the show. Yeah, me either. Like, I think they like she DM'd him. Like before all the stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

No, they are in so many ways perfect for each other.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

No, I yeah, I wouldn't even be mad about it to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

But and they both live in Miami and like I actually am not joking when I when I say he might be AI. I kind of feel like he actually might.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Like, like they are testing us in Love Island, and at the end they're gonna be like, oh, Corbin wasn't real and they're gonna tell us. Okay, well, I got my tinfoil hat on big time. This is a fun black episode that we're in, black hair episode that we're in.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So yeah, and and let me say this. I don't think any man is exempt from this except my boy Caleb, who I know they never show him, but I still like him. He's like, I miss the girls, even though we didn't have enough connection. I just miss him. That's so sweet. He said that in Casa. But okay, but you also Bryce. Yes, but what I will say, I know I do have a little criticism for Bryce in this category because did he step up to Zach when Zach was talking so shitty about Trinity? No. Well, we don't know it. Not that they showed us, yeah. And when they were at Casa and the guys are talking about this, Bryce and Caleb are both sitting there and they say nothing, right? Yeah and saying nothing, like it's you're complex. Yes, it's excusable in comparison with the other guys, but like I do think Bryce should hold people, especially Zach, accountable because he's besties with Zach, and Zach is very misogynistic. Very misogynistic. So he's not exempt.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yeah, he is complicit. I will give you that. But I he does also he's never said anything, right? He's never said anything. I I do think when he is back in the villa when the girls have spoken up, he has like agreed and like amplified some of the things that they have said. Yeah, um, so that doesn't excuse him being quiet in all male spaces. But I think he does. It's just a point that can be made. Yeah, but maybe maybe that's something that watching back that he can learn about it.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Maybe Carl, on the other hand, in the aftersun episode, the other Casa guys were trying to get him to talk shit about Anaya, and he stood up against them. And he was like, No, I'm not gonna. She did what she had to do, let's not oversimplify it.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

And they were like, Trinity was starting shit, and he goes, She was just defending her friend. I can't fault her for that. So he didn't just not say anything.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Maybe a feminist in our midst.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

He spoke up. He, I mean, there he said they asked everybody how they feel about their parents watching it, and Carl goes, My mom is very sex positive.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Wow. So I'm like, somebody was raised by a queen.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Somebody was raised by a queen.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

No, I I'm telling you, Carl a gem.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Like he I hope Ari turns out like Carl. Oh, we can only hope. Except he doesn't need to go on a show. Yeah, we don't. He can if he wants. But you don't need to. You would see him like sitting on cake in a show. I I I think if I That was fetish content straight up. 20 minutes of fetish content. And humiliating.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Like I had a hard time watching it.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

I feel like Corbin got out on purpose because he doesn't want to.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

I can see that. Okay, anyways, we gotta move. Anyways. Okay. Um point number two. I know we're not always working with the brightest of all of the bunch, but are is the standard for intellectual connection really that low? What do you mean? I'm just really overhearing, like we both like lunch, we both like music, and that being like the definition of a connection. And be like, we have so much in common, we are the same. Like, I've never felt this way about somebody.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

I wonder, I do it's if if if we were to give them the benefit of the doubt, I wonder if production is like don't talk about politics, like don't talk about religion, like keep it light.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Because but there's still so many things that you could talk about, yeah, beyond that that it would be more intellectual or like food. Like no. Well, like Bryson Trinity, like the one conversation that I saw with them where they he talked about his stepdad. Yeah, like that has substance at least. And I like I feel like I have not seen that with almost any other couple, maybe maybe Carl and Aya. Yeah. But like even then it it's limited. And I'm just like part of sometimes when I think about watching Love Island, part of the reason I don't always like get excited to watch is because I it's understood me. I'm yeah, I'm fearful that I'll be bored because like I'm like, are they not bored? Like, are they not bored of themselves? Like just like not talking about anything all day.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

I know, and we only see one hour of their 24 hours. So I'm like, are they just sitting around, dude?

SPEAKER_02 23:50

They well, I'm sure they're they're like doing their little uh what's it called, confessionals and getting ready and like I don't know, whatever when they have their challenges, and that probably takes like a whole day to set up and break down and all that, but like I just yeah, I I do worry about them kind of getting like uh what's it called when you're like stuck in one place for too long? A zoucosis? No, I don't think that's about what I was gonna say. But like claustrophobia, restlessness? Um more like like when like when you're it doesn't matter. Okay, um, but like yeah, I'm just like you you gotta be bored, like you've gotta be like really just like over being in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

And maybe that's why they it does seem like the girls have intellectual connections with each other, but the yeah, but not then we're seeing a strong sisterhood. We do see substantive conversations between Zach and Bryce. I will say when Zach goes, Do you think you're on your way to love? And Bryce goes, Isn't that the point? I was like, Oh my god. I did really resonate with Bryce in his casa experience and being yearning and the yearning and being like, I'd rather fucking die on my shield of how I feel. I'm like, you're a true water sign. Welcome, he's a cancer. Of course. I really related to him. Um that's me whenever my girlfriend goes out.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Do you know that he when my husband returns for more staring across the sea? Um do you know that he was scouted and didn't apply? I heard that. Yeah, and I'm like, when I heard that, it makes so much more sense. He's not playing the game. No positive. Positive. Yeah. Um, I would not be surprised if like Bryce were to say, I've never watched an episode of Love Island.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

He does seem really unfamiliar with it.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

He's like, we're here to find love. Who do you think has seen the most Love Island? Three, two, one, Kenzie.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Nah, Kenzie's not very strategic either. Because why she was trying to win this, she wouldn't be like, let me fuck my shit up one more time.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

I but I think she she's playing not the Love Island game. She's playing the long game of game. She's playing the Kenzie game. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

And she's winning that. So she was in her mind. Who was she with? Did she go straight from Zach to Corbin? Was there somebody in between? I kind of feel like there was someone in between, but I can't even remember it as well. Sean. Remember she was single and then she was kind of talking to Sean. Talking to Sean. And then Corbin came in and picked her.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

And then Caleb.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Or America picked her. No way. Whatever. Um okay, but going back to-cause I remember that there were three triangles. She was, remember, she's like, I don't know, I like Sean, but also I like Corbin. Zach?

unknown 26:44

No.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

She she was over Zach.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Okay. Okay, anyway, go on. Going back to like the lack of intellectual connection. Yeah. Um, like you said, like the the girls truly like do have some of that with each other. And I see them trying to get that out of the men. Like they're like pulling teeth trying to get it out of the men. Connect with me. Yeah, and the men cannot meet them there. Like, they cannot.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

And I don't want to be like, oh, women are so much better than men, like they're so much more emotionally complex than men. But like I'm not, I'm actually not trying to be Miss Andrus, but it's just happening. I guess it's the way that we're socializing them because I know that they're capable of better. Right. And maybe that is part of why everybody falls for sincere because he at least gives off the impression of like vulnerability and communication and things that people crave. He comes across like kind of soft in that way, and people are really craving that. Especially this season, I feel like it's really lacking. I mean, it's the first like full-blown Gen Z season. Yeah. You know, it's rough. Mine is Bright. Mine is Bryce was the youngest millennial. And it shows. And it shows. It shows. I mean, it's just like when it's not gonna be as good of TV when you're somebody who's been through shit and learned from it. Right. You know, like you're not gonna want to give people no idea what to do. Right. Like when I remember, there's all this judgment towards like Anaya or whatever, but when I remember she is 23, I'm like, I was a fucking idiot when I was 23. And I was doing bad things. Yeah, I I also forget that Anaya is 23, to be fair. Like, come on. That's she's pretty sophisticated for somebody so young.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

No, I I think Anaya is very smart. Like, she's for sure smart. Yeah. Um, but I think like that goes to my next point. Is like, do we think that the girls are like enabling them a little bit? Like, do we think not necessarily within the show? Like, yes, within the show, but also like in general, like do have these men also gotten like an extra free pass because they're attractive. Like, is this your point three?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

No, this is within the same point. Yeah, do I don't know. I don't know. I'm you know what? I'm gonna argue against that because I think it is it's so easy to to both sides everything, like kind of like like when we're like, well, Democrats and Republicans are bad, and it's like, well, yes, but let's not excuse like extreme evil right and and be like, but part of the blame is on the people who let it happen, right? Yes, yes, that's true. Like, we women do need to stop enabling men, but I'm very hesitant to find fault with the women when I'm like just down the road is the most evil man you've ever met that's like clouding her judgment, manipulating her. She just, I mean, these women do seem like they're in it for love. I've not seen one woman that I'm like, she's evil, not even Parmita, not even TT. Like, yeah, I there is not a single woman that I'm like, wow, she's an evil, scary, manipulative person. And there's multiple.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

I stand on being scared of Melanie, but I don't think she's an evil person.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

But she's not trying to be manipulative, she's just strong and powerful. Yes, that's why you're scared of her.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Like, and as you should, like, you know, I mean, she does seem like she would cut a bitch. No, yeah. I like, I like I'm scared of her. Respectful. Like complimentary.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Complimentary.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah. Um, no, for sure. She's a strong woman. Also, it was so funny to me when Trinity was like, I used to be such a mean bitch. I was like, Trinity, honestly, I see it. We saw a taste. Well, we saw a taste.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Did you see that they people are speculating that they cut the scene and it actually almost got physical? Yes. Yeah. It did seem like it was gonna get physical. Yeah, and honestly, I'm gonna comment more on that. But in real life, when Anaya was like, Is this bad girls club? I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah, that was interesting. It also showed that Anaya is not, she does not come from a place where people give into physical altercations. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Her her class is a little different from almost everybody else's. Everybody's more poor than a yeah, her dad's. I know, no, and it's and and yeah, and it showed like she obviously is a princess and is accustomed to being raised as a princess. Yeah, like as she should. No notes, but but she doesn't get down like Trinity. Right. Carl also gives like sophisticated.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Like he's wearing a buzzer.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

It's like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Who like you on the show? Why is I'm surprised he even knows about Love Island. I was like, is this an experiment for some like grad school that you're applying to that you can like write about it later? Like, are you writing a dissertation?

SPEAKER_01 31:09

What it makes me wonder is are people really that desperate for love? Like, maybe we can't find it because sometimes you know, maybe he's been on the apps for a really long time. Maybe he's dated somebody from work, maybe he's dated somebody from school, yeah, and and he's like, I cannot find the woman.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

What I imagine is his friends watch it, and then his friends were probably like, You should apply, you should apply. And he probably kind of just went through with it, maybe and then they got selected him. Obviously, he's hot. No, yeah, he's rich. Do you two I would go for in that show? Of course.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

I knew at some point you were gonna say that. You're you would be such a Carl girl.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

100%. I haven't been that obvious this whole time.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Like I that's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

What what who would you not?

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Would I go for Carl? I don't find Carl like I'm not like attracted to Carl. I think he's great.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think you're not attracted to men mostly.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Yeah, but I guess I mean like drawn to him, like I would pick him.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Who would you pick then?

SPEAKER_01 32:04

Men, boys. Of men. Of the men on the show, currently. The way you're saying that, you're like, don't make me cheap. I mean, I don't want to date any of these men, but I I mean, if we're going on everybody's character who they are, I gotta say Bryce.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

I mean, yeah, Bryce is a very close second person.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

But I more so relate to Bryce because I'm also a depressed white person.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

A yearner.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

I'm also a yearner.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Okay. So I hear what you're saying about like the women not enabling men. And I'm to be fair, in this like last two episodes, they have gone in hard on them. Like they have really called them out, they've held them accountable. I think that actually really attests to the friendships that they have with each other.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Yeah, like what else are they supposed to do?

SPEAKER_02 32:48

There's no other option for them on the show, right? And so, like, but in I know you haven't watched a lot of other seasons, but like in previous seasons, they don't really do that. And they don't go in on the men, not to visit sin. Yeah, um, and so I like really value that about this group of women. Yeah, I don't, and I also don't think it would happen if it were not so many women of color. Like, oh for sure.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah, like white women don't really it's not part of the culture. Kenzie said, I've never yelled at anybody before. Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Kenzie Hopkins. She's learning because yeah, she's learning.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

And for her, this is probably a really like constructive experience for her. So I hate that she's whatever. We go all, dude. I don't even want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

I know. So just to sum that up, I I do think though that like a lot of times these men and maybe in the quote unquote real world get excuses made for them because they're attractive and they are not held to the same standard of intellectual yeah, no, truly.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Like and I think men have been saying that. That's why looks maxing exists. That's why incels exist. Like, yeah, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

That's why he's like, Unfortunately, no, but I do think he acts like it.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

He acts like it. Yeah. When Sydney from Kalsa was like, what do you like in bed? He got so uncomfortable. He did not know what to say. He started getting real awkward.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Well, I think he well, he he was like, I'm really vanilla, right? Yeah, yeah, which is really interesting to say, but I think he like that comes from a place of shame and not wanting to be like judged or shamed for any kinks that he might have. Right. He just has to be normal, you know? Like he has to like.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Yes. But then Corbin's like talking about his kinks the second he watches. This is why I don't agree with you about uh Corbin actually being that smart. Yeah, no, I I think Corbin is very smart. I'm standing by that.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

Okay, I I would be I knew that's the same. I actually don't agree. He's following Corbin's lead. He's following Corbin's lead because he witnesses the attention that Corbin benefits from.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

And Corbin, that is very calculated. What he says and doesn't say how he carries himself, and to not piss off the girls too much, he's I think that's all coming from a very calculated place.

SPEAKER_02 35:04

We will see.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

Okay. Okay. Last time we were like, we'll see about sincere. Yeah. I guess, yeah, to follow up on that, where do you stand on him wanting validation versus power? Casey or Corbin. Sincere.

SPEAKER_02 35:16

Oh, sincere.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Um I'm waiting for you to tell me I was right.

SPEAKER_02 35:21

I do think you're right. I think it is like more validation-based.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Because when Melanie was like, I don't even know what to say to you anymore, you drain the life of me, he looked sad.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

I yeah, I think he I think he wants approval. Like he said last um episode. Yeah. I I do think he's thinking about the approval of the audience, also, though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah. That's why he was talking to himself at one time when Melanie walked away. And he's like, oh no, I do something, I get in trouble. I don't do something, I get in trouble. This thing with Amora is gonna bite him in the ass. I fear that movie night is gonna truly be Sincere's downfall because he's straight up half truth, half truth, half truth. And he said that he even admitted it. I was shook, dude. I was shook. He was like, I guess I tell not the whole truth, and that's where the two-faced allegations are coming from.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Like, wow, we love a self-aware kid. We'll have to see, but like he might grow from this. I actually think he might. He has some humility to him. I think he I almost think that he might, but he unfortunately will probably have so many women sliding into his DMs after this. I don't know. This is what I'm saying, though. This is like women will be. Am I underestimating it?

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Yeah, I mean he's very cute. No, he just looks wise physically, I would go for him. Yeah, because he kind of like he looks kind of feminine.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

I like that. I like a little femininity in a man. I also think Zach is very attractive, but I hate his personality. I met enough mean gays to be like, I already know what this is. No, he's a mean, spiteful gay. Catty Twink. I worry, I do worry, like, just in general, this is not on that line about like these real human beings who are in their early years, most of them under 25, coming out of the villa and just seeing like the loads and piles and mountains of shit people have had to say about them. No, I speculation, like criticisms, like the way people have criticized Jen's body, the way that people even when people are like, KC is evil, I want to hurt him, I want to hit him. I'm like, I don't know. Like, let's critique his behavior for sure, but like I don't know, guys. Like, we're taking it to a place. I mean, meanwhile, we have a whole podcast about it. But yes, but we're not like we want to hurt him. Like, we're like, this is not good. What does this say about our men and boys?

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

You know what I mean? It's not about KC, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:40

As yeah, I understand, and this goes back to our reality TV episode. It's like are they signing up for it? No, yeah, are they signing up for it? Like, do they know that going in? Bryce turned off his comments, like on his Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Yeah. And so Because he's smart. Because he's smart or all things. And you know what pisses me off? And this goes to the same point I was saying, I'm sorry I cut you off. But at the beginning, people were like, Bryce is ugly, Bryce is scrawny, Bryce is like saying mean things about his appearance. Right. And now that he's gained popularity, people have gotten to know what a good guy he is. The tune has changed. But I'm like, okay, let's learn from this. Right. And let's not just like shit on people's appearances because of our first impression of it.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Well, I think like this is like a maybe an old saying or whatever, but like something I learned growing up is like never comment on something something somebody can't change. Right. And like like their behavior they can change. Their behavior, but like like it goes as far as to be like, oh, they have something stuck in their teeth, like point that out. Right. They like I don't know, they have bad skin, they can't change it right away. Right split. Right. Like, yeah, like there's no there's if they can't change how they their height, their weight right away, like like all those things, like you there's no need to comment on that because that's just malicious. I agree. Um, and I think like that's the part for me on the show that like I if I were a contestant, I'd be the most fearful about because like 100%, there's just not anything I can do about it. Like, I can't pack surgery, I can't filler or whatever, but like still, and then yeah, yeah, I'm over shit. And then I just would always be having those thoughts about myself.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

I know, even at this big age, like I am afraid of people being mean about my looks because I'm like, I can't change that, right? And I have mean thoughts about it too, and I don't want to hear that. Like, Jen already knows that she has big boobs and a small butt. Like, she knows that, right? We don't need to point that out, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

And anyways, tangent over that was a total just stop being mean about people's appearance, like stop, yeah. Yeah, okay. Last point the men are threatened by the women, and they should be, but that's a sign to step up your game, not to opt out. Yeah, um, I like so many of these men, if not all of them, know these women are out of their league, more mature, smarter, hotter than them, and they're like they're terrified, they're scared of them.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

And they're like, I need to bring them down. Yes, like criticize them, make them feel small. Zach does it to Kata.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

That's exactly what I was about to say. Like Kata and Zach like prime example, he is so scared by the power that she has, yeah, that he has to find a way to poke holes in it any opportunity he gets. Yes, and I'm like Zach, first of all, if you just came out, you'd be a lot feel a lot better. Second of all, like he is attractive, like yeah, he has that level of confidence to know that like he is uh perceived as attractive by other people, but not the emotional maturity or like even intellectual maturity to be able to keep a woman or a man if you wanted to.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Like I I saw somebody saying, you know, Zach keeps getting a pass because we have bigger fish to fry, and I do think that it is a kind of problematic masculinity that goes undiscussed, which is partly the misogyny of men who repress their queerness, right? So, like there is a love of men, and then sometimes develops into a hatred and jealousy of women because women get to be with men or whatever it is that that is very ugly, but people don't really see it as misogyny because people like Corbin and Casey are more like outward are more outward about it, but Zach's misogyny is very insidious because he'll make you think he's your friend or he's your boyfriend, or he'll say I love you, and then say it's a joke, like to slowly and and methodically tear you down. Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

Well, again, to have the power, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Yeah, because he has self-hatred, like insecurity, it's so obvious.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

Yeah. I I also think um like Corbin and KC are threatened by the intellectualism and like social class of the other women, yeah, particularly like you mentioned with Anaya with KC.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

There's a class issue at play.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

There is a huge class issue, and they feel so scared about not being able to like provide for them in that way or like meet the same standard that they're used to in their daily lives.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Like your dad's in the NBA, like what am I gonna contribute to your life? Right. That's gonna make me feel like a small dick boy. Right, exactly. And you know, there again, this is where patriarchy and and toxic masculinity hurts men and boys, right? Because it shouldn't be like that. There should be more that Casey is able to contribute than just like money, success, you know, all these things. But I, you know, I like I don't like to mention my parents on the pod, but I know that I have like I was raised, you know, upper middle class and dated people who were in a different socioeconomic bracket than I. And my dad did make them feel less than small and less than. Yeah, yeah. And it's ingrained, you know, ideas of masculinity, and um, you know, it affected the men that I dated and it made me sad. Um, and so I I just like I do have some uh I I've you know sympathy for that, but it's like the way that he handled it and was like completely disingenuous and like disrespectful.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

And like these women are like they're not the ones putting that on you, like they are not tearing you down, and but they get punished, they get punished for your insecurity, and and Bryce is the only one who hasn't done that. Like Bryce is the one who is friendly get like very vulnerable and a little emotional about being like, hey, I feel weird that I have this other side gig, yeah, and that it's not glamorous, and Trinity immediately was just like, no, I think that's great. Like I think like I value that in you, and like that's fucking healthy of them. Like that's like like I agree. Like, not hard to it's not hard to do.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Classes is such a difficult issue, and when you throw in the racial dynamic to that, like neither of us knows what it's like to be like a dark skin black person dating another dark skin black person, and y'all are in different class socioeconomic classes, like what that exactly feels like.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Well, when Casey was like

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I hear my mother or I see my sisters, like I think that like that wasn't very much about class, and that was very much about like people who are dogging him being like, Why would you date somebody who reminds you of your mother or your sister? Like, that's not well, he's obviously familiar. Like, yeah, that that's me.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

I'm like, okay, guys, relax. Um, and I think like he feels safe with TT because of that like class alliance, and I I can't fault him for that. No, cannot fault.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

She seems clearly like a better match. I just I like nobody truly, I haven't seen anybody judge KC for picking TT or for wanting to explore. Or nobody thought that him and Anaya were a good match. Right. It was like his total 180 of his countenance, his treatment, his his like lack of honesty and his disrespect when she said I never felt so belittled in my life. Like apathy towards any of the people. And it was it seemed intentional, it seemed like revenge for her not being at his door.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Right, and not putting out, like and not putting out. I really feel like it was about sex.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Like I know at the end of the day. That's not okay. And that's what, like, again, the patriarchy's patriarchy is teaching men that women giving them things sexually is like where their value comes from. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

So to sum it all up, yeah, these men are not lonely, they're lazy because they think that they deserve the world for doing the bare minimum. Like they think that they should just have to exist and women should fall at their feet. And so I think like this is really, really playing out this season. And I have heard a lot of people have had a really hard time watching this season, and yeah, even just like stopped in general because they're so fed up with they say the cast, but like I think it is primarily the men.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

I did see somebody being like, if we're gonna remove somebody for racism, like, are we gonna remove somebody for red pill, like misogyny? Yeah, and I'm like, that's a fair question.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

No, but that's a good fucking point.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

Yeah, yeah. Like, what's the line?

SPEAKER_02 45:56

I think the line is however much do they think the producers can get away with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Less people are clocked into the red pill stuff. It's not clocking to you, bro. I know. I mean, I still see some KC defenders, right?

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%. Okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

Hard truth. Yeah, so on the first point of um like men tapping out when it comes to difficult conversations, we honestly agreed. Like, I cannot disagree. I cannot give faith say no, these men know how to have hard conversations. They're trying. Right. No, they're not. They're literally not trying. They're just not, they really are not. And I think, yeah, I instead of us being like, wow, what a little oh yeah, this is the point that I wanted to make. There have been a lot of memes, which first of all, stop using generative AI to make memes.

unknown 46:47

Fucking sick of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Secondly, a lot of memes where they're like gender swapping TT and KC to be like, he's wearing the dress and she's wearing the pants, or he's like I AI'd as a baby and she's his mommy or whatever. Like, I don't really like those critiques. Like, I don't really find that funny because I feel like we're then tying it to again, like this failure of masculinity when it's actually like a failure of humanity. Like you're dehumanizing another human being, like not being like not a man, like yes, he's a coward, but he's a he's a gender-neutral coward. I don't like when people are like saying now TT's the man and he's the woman. Like that feels fucking sexist as fuck to me.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

And and like you said, like not helpful. Like there's there's no and people aren't trying to be helpful, they're being destructive for fun. And I don't like that. Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Okay, point number two that the standard of intellectual clip. Yeah, I did say that maybe they're having maybe there are limits placed on them pr by production, maybe they're having more interesting conversations, but they're not airing them because they're not like light and sexy and fun. So yeah, I mean, that's possible, but yeah, I do agree that like these people seem to have a lot of brain rot.

SPEAKER_02 47:58

I think like the reason why I don't think it's not getting aired by from production is or like that I that is there, but it's not getting aired, is I see them hanging out in their gender-specific groups a lot. Yeah. Like I think like when they're not on their little chats, like the girls are with the girls, the boys are with the boys. Interesting. And like they're not really spending that much time getting to know each other. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

They're such a better sister than last season. Season seven, all the girls were not friends. Maybe sad. Yeah. It was weird.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Um, okay, point number three um, the men are threatened by the women and they should be, but then you just step up instead of opt out.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

Yeah, for sure. I think I, as somebody who dates uh a like strong woman with high standards, I'm like, it it you cannot be lazy. No, it does actually require you to put in a lot of effort and to step up and to take accountability when you're failing and be like, I am going to do better and I'm going to what you know build my character to be worthy of this person. Like that's what it fucking takes. If you want to be with a bad bitch like that, right? So fucking get off your ass and become a better person.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Right. And if you want to settle for somebody who will allow you to be that way, effortless, effortless, then you gotta count you gotta compromise whatever that's like. You take that person as they are as well. Right. Okay. So where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_01 49:23

I don't know, dude. I really don't know. I mean, I feel like I shouldn't be watching this. I feel like it's making me a worse person, but here we are.

SPEAKER_02 49:32

Yeah, I mean, I just think that again, I'm really, like you said, proud of the sisterhood on the show and that the fact that they did call out some of the men, at least. Yeah. Um, and I think we need to do that more. I think like women need to band together more and like call out men more, even in like small, like the way that you called out Vivek today for his AI. Yes. Like using it more too often.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

And I'm pushing that with him and not dehumanizing. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

But I was like, Yes, I needed someone else to come in and be on my side and like be like, you need to hear this perspective, not just from me. Like, obviously, he respects me, but like to band together to like be like, no, like this is this is something that like matters. I think men in particular do listen more.

SPEAKER_01 50:18

Yeah, women need to have each other's backs and and be the melanie to somebody's Anaya when you see a diva down. You know, make sure that you remind them like it is not worth putting up with this. Don't be like, you haven't tried hard enough, or like maybe you're not giving him grace. No, like stand with her, stand up for her, remind her because it's hard when you don't feel like you have a lot of options and you want to be loved, like you're gonna make compromises, and men, do not stay silent when you hear that bullshit. I know that it's hard, and I know that it feels like an uphill battle and maybe pointless or inevitable, right? Or like you're just gonna get you know ostracized. You have to speak up in rooms where women are not there to defend themselves. Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:57

That that is our only option forward. Looking at you, Bryson Carl. Yeah, yeah. Yes, and Caleb, like speak up. Speak up. All right, ready for cancellor comeback? I sure am. All right, let's take it home.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

Okay, cancel comeback yearning. You know, I'm a I'm a top-notch yearner. I am I have a PhD in yearning. Pisces sun and moon. Oh, we let this stay yearning. What about stay yearning? I don't feel like you yearn.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

I don't know. I don't actually, but I am come back for it. But you want to receive yearning. I will also want to be better at it. Like, I think I'm I might like feel it, but I'm not very good at expressing it.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

I challenge you to express some yearnings. I know. It would Vivek would love that.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Like he I feel like you don't want to give that to him sometimes. He's a Leo, okay? So I know his ego is already so inflated that like if I contribute, I he also like he also likes that I don't give it to him. Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:56

So you know, like there's like that dynamic of Does he yearn for you?

SPEAKER_02 52:00

Yeah, I think more so than I do for him, like in terms of our needs to crank up the yearning. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Cantor come back, the group chat shit shitting on your ex. Come back when it's needed, it's needed. When it's over, it's over. I definitely needed my proverbial group chat. I don't have like a group chat, but to to shit on my ex and be like, you you know wasn't worth it. You're a queen, he's trash. And then once I was over it, I moved on and I was like, I don't feel like I need to hear that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

We need the group chat whenever we're like thinking about getting back together with an ex. You know, like someone's gotta rein us back in. No circling back. Yeah, don't fucking do it. There, I've actually I like pretty much stand on business anytime I've yeah, ended things with someone purely out of pride. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

Like, not even because I don't want to a little bit, but just like I'm too prideful to let myself for me. I think it's that I I give people a lot of leeway. So if I have actually closed the door, like I you have drained the life out of me. I have done me wrong.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

And there's there's no coming.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Like I actually would give you another chance if I could, but I I'm done. I don't have the option. There's not enough. I'm gonna probably go back because I already stayed so long.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Way longer than I should have. I actually dug my own grave. Yeah, yeah. Okay, and that's on me, but that's not on being a double Pisces. Um all right, cancellor come back thinking you're the main character. Look at my Kenzie.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

Yeah, I think you can think you're the main character as long as you understand that other people are the main character in their story. Yeah. So you have to accept that sometimes you're the supporting character for someone else, even though you're the main character to yourself. Right. I do think it's good that Kenzie has high self-esteem. She's not letting men treat her like shit. Yeah. However, she could take a glance around now and again, think about how somebody else might feel.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

And not like step on other women to get what you want. Yeah. Like the whole gal thing, really. We'll see, dude.

SPEAKER_01 53:56

I mean, he already did Jen, so like what is she supposed to do?

SPEAKER_02 53:59

But I feel I think Kenzie should have been like, actually, that's a red flag for me that you did that so immediately that I'm not gonna give you the time of day.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Being at the middle of a love triangle is fun.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Shut up.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

We'll talk about it all time, okay? Okay. Being one of the point other points of the love triangle, not fun.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Yeah. I I'm actually canceled on that one. I think that people like we all just gotta stop thinking that we're so important. Yeah, you know, like people don't think about us that much, and that is actually a good thing. Yeah. Um, fair enough. Okay, cancel or come back, being a little jealous, totally come back.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

As long as you stay playful with it, I think expressing a little jealousy is healthy and kind of hot.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

I actually don't come back too. I think it is like a little, I am surprising myself, but I think it is a little fun to kind of be like, I don't know, like they were like So go be with her then. And it's like the cashier or like, yeah, or like they were like staring you so much, yeah, like at the party today. Like I didn't like that.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

As long as you're not like blaming the other person or restricting them or controlling them, you're good to go. Yeah, you're good to go. Okay, cancel our comeback, public shaming. Um, I think probably cancel, actually. I think I'm pro consequences and I'm but I'm anti-public shaming. Like, yes, remove Alana from the villa. No, don't go tell her to kill herself in her comments.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Of course, of course, of course.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

I or tell her she's a piece of shit racist. Like, is that gonna help her? I don't think so. She did experience a consequence. Yeah, she did.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

Uh I am a little public shaming in the way they did it with Casey and Corbin. Like pointing and booing.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Yes. But that's not public, right? That's a group of people that know you. It's on national TV.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

You're last true.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Yeah. Okay, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

What I will say about this cast is I feel like they have forgotten more than any other cast that they're filming. That they're being filmed. Yes. I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Except Zach, he knows.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

He knows. He is with production day and night.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Yeah. Yeah. He is a producer.

unknown 56:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

No, he's thinking, he's thinking.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Yeah. Um, I I mostly cancel, but I think the group chat shaming, here for it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think a lot of people are like bring back shame lately. And I'm like, I don't know. I I've experienced a lot of the destructive effects of shame. Yeah. To where I'm a little hesitant to be like bring back shame because I'm like, it never really left for me. Yeah. So I'm not really ready.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

And enough shame will produce an incel.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

So yeah, I don't necessarily think that shame is an effective method of change. Right. So okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:35

Well, on the flip side, cancer comeback, public apologies.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

Come back. Tell us. Tell us. Yeah. Tell us so we can move forward so you can show people that you've changed so that you can demonstrate what it looks like.

SPEAKER_03 56:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Come back. Show me what's on your notes app.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Post it on a black and white story. Uh-huh. What I am not come back for around that is just the clearly not authentic apologies. PR apologies. Yeah, PR apologies. I've done a lot of thinking. Yeah. Like, did you see Alana's apology? I I saw it come up, but I scrolled past it.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

I honestly didn't get through it because I was like, I honestly don't care. No, I don't care.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

She wasn't on there long enough. Yeah to like. She's 21. Like, I don't really care what she's thinking. No. Also, like I feel like I'm so curious to know after the movie night tonight. Like, tell Kata, please. Well, well, like they must know that she was kicked off for that reason, and they're just being told not to talk about it like on camera. Yeah. And I'm really curious if that has been a conversation between Kata and Zach.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

Because if if No, because he said in last night's episode, he said, if I wanted to bring someone back, I would have. And that's not a tool she should have in his own. He didn't have the option to. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, he did not even have to be able to get the big thing. So that's a lie. So I don't think that I don't think they have discussed it.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Also the fact that she like is black and like that girl got for that reason and Zach was attracted to her.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Like that would well, he didn't know that when he was at her.

SPEAKER_02 58:10

I know, but like that would fuck with you a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

I like said that she made out with his brother and he was fine with it. Really weird.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

If somebody made out with my brother Because he's not attracted to women, so he doesn't care.

SPEAKER_01 58:19

Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. And honestly, he didn't seem into those kisses. He just likes attention, dude.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

He just likes it.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

He likes attention. Devastated.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

That price in Trinity or boyfriend.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Yeah, he actually has animosity towards Trinity that is jealousy. And when she was like, I got your man, like this is honestly, like, it's not a joke. Like, I've seen this in real life. It is not a joke. I'm curious if there will be any conversation after movie night. Here's here's some like things. One, I think they're gonna show Sincere's back and forth, and it's gonna be really hard to watch. I kind of hope they don't show all the horrible things Casey has said about Anaya, because I don't think there's any point. Originally I was like, I hope she sees this, and now I'm like, I don't know, I don't really want to be a little bit more. Doesn't even matter anymore. Yeah. And also, I wonder if they're gonna show how Zach has talked shit behind everybody's back. Yeah. And if after that there will be any conversation where Bryce tries to hold him accountable. Because if not, I might lose some respect for Bryce.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Yeah, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

I hate to say.

SPEAKER_02 59:15

Yeah, that's totally fair.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

I already feel like he should be like, you need a back off of Trinity. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_02 59:21

I mean, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

I think anything you really do or don't want to see on movie night.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

I actually want the girl to call out Candy a little bit. Yeah, that'd be nice. Yeah. I think like she's not certain girl code and she deserves to be called out a little bit for that. And I but I'm with you. I want Kate to dump that. Like I just think that she deserves so much more. And it's really like not. Yeah, she's doing it. Yeah. And she had these hot ass men pursuing her and didn't go for it. She's so gorgeous. No, she's gonna get a violent contract. Like for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Face card lethal. Lethal. Okay. Well we'll see, dude. We'll see. This uh I guess our next one will be one of our one of our last ones. But if you have comments, questions, criticisms, compliments, or concerns, email us at true friendspod at gmail.com. You can find me at the better breadshot on Substack um and Instagram and at existential gay on TikTok. You can read my column in the Austin Chronicle that's about weed and buy good Christian girls wherever you buy books. Join us next week and subscribe and review to become a true friend of the vibe. Hi!