True Friends

Episode 25: Can we find true love on reality TV?

• Kate Vancil & Elizabeth Bradshaw • Season 2 • Episode 25

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Kate and EB discuss whether a true friend will tell you to dump your toxic man, if it's possible to find love with $100K on the line, and whether reality TV dating shows are good for us as a society. Our artifact for the summer is Love Island USA Season 8! We debate our opinions about the "core four," Gen Z dating standards, and why everyone says "genuinely" so much.

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Questions? Compliments? Criticisms? Email us at: truefriendspod@gmail.com

SPEAKER_01

Even with how corrupt and and calculated everything is, like and commercialized, there if people go in with a genuine heart, yeah, a pure heart will always win. You know what I mean? Not necessarily saying that they were bound to win the 100k, right, but that they did find a connection because that is they went into it with open hearts looking for a connection and they they fell in love. Welcome to True Friends, an everyday ethics podcast where we discuss the complexities of the decisions we all have to make, from beauty standards to politics, we're bringing you our hot takes on modern debates. We might not always agree, but we'll give our honest opinions the way true friends do. I'm EB, a part-time writer, full-time lesbian, and five-inch in-seam shorts apologists.

SPEAKER_00

You don't need to be an apologist for that. That is the only in-seam to have. For m all genders. Yeah, 100%. If Vivek isn't wearing a five five-inch inseam, I'm like, what's going on? It's like, yeah, I was like, we we gotta show a little thigh.

SPEAKER_01

Please. Yeah. Please. And for assigned female at birth people, you don't have to show as much thigh. Five-inch inseam feels good and looks good.

SPEAKER_00

It feels safe. I I also like a five-inch inseam on like jean shorts as well. Yeah. Those are like way more comfortable. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And they look better too. They look better. Like, why do I gotta have my whole coochie on?

SPEAKER_00

No, I literally don't. I that I can do that at any other time. Whenever I want, I'll just take my pants off. That's why I'm not a fan of the like micro short trend. Dude. I beach underwear. Yeah. I'm like, that's just a bikini. Like you're just like, or underwear. More power to you. Yeah, no, but just call it what it is. Like you're wearing no pants, and that's okay. You're wearing no pants. We sound old. Yeah, but like, hey, but I'm pro no pants. Just don't pretend like a micro short is a real thing. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Not something micro streets maybe overdosing shorts.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Crazy. How do you feel about not having to watch Love Island tonight?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I had to introduce myself. Oh, yeah.

unknown

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm Kate, licensed therapist, first time mom, and short nail convert. Oh, what got you there? Having a baby. Um are you really a convert or is it just out of the city? I think it I actually do think it I like the aesthetic of it more.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, grewing. Yeah, it grew.

SPEAKER_00

Why do you think?

SPEAKER_01

Just because you have them and you got used to it, or what would you do?

SPEAKER_00

I've been seeing them more. Like I think they're coming back also, so maybe I'm just falling for a trend. But um, I think they're like, they just look cleaner. They look like I don't know. I think there's something more about like a natural about it, even though you're painting your nails still or something. Is there what you have now? Would you call that short? This is long right now. Like they're outgrown right now. I see. Um, but yeah, like I like just slightly above the skin, you know, is what I would like. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. So well, you have to be, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't have to be, I can do whatever I want. But I've always been that way. Yeah. Even even when I was not out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't want to be like even when I was straight, but yeah, I've never a lot of like queer people will do just two fingers, yeah, short, and then the other long, and I don't like that either.

SPEAKER_01

I don't really love it. I mean, that's cool and edgy, but I don't think it looks great.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I just don't, yeah. I I know there's like also a lot of like um culture and like race around nails as well, too. And so like the long nails is maybe not for the white girl east. Oh yeah. Uh and so like you know, let's limit our cultural appropriation while we can.

SPEAKER_01

Dude, speaking of which, there's this woman on like Instagram, I'm sure she's on TikTok too, that like she has a very short haircut for a very like butch aesthetic, and then all of her content is no, I'm not a lesbian. Like, that's what her content is about. She's gay and rage-waiting, or she's homophobic and appropriating. No, fair enough. Uh either way, I'm like, it's very weirdo behavior. Very weirdo behavior. Adopt the aesthetic of a minority. Like, if you want to be a straight woman with a butch aesthetic, like, first of all, there's a million of them in the Midwest. Like, you you're not new.

SPEAKER_00

Not new.

SPEAKER_01

But to make all your content about I drive a sugar and I have a butch haircut, but I'm not a lesbian, like, okay.

SPEAKER_00

But I that's why I think it's just for HB. Like, I think they're she's just trying to get clicks.

SPEAKER_01

I guess, but like, why she literally has a bumper sticker on her that's not a lesbian.

SPEAKER_00

The video. Oh, you have. Yes, I get your content now because like the algorithm knows we send TikToks to each other. Did you see my comment?

SPEAKER_01

No, you commented. I did comment.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't look at the comments.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, my girlfriend sent it to me and she's like, I don't know how to feel. Like, I this annoys me. I'm like, the more I thought about it, the more it annoyed me. At first I was like, I guess who cares? But then I'm like, no, no, no, you're putting this out into the world. Yeah, and I think I don't care if you want to look gay and not be gay.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. But like, why do you keep talking about it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Every video was about that. Like I went to her page and that's like what all her comments are.

SPEAKER_00

But that's what I'm saying. That's why I think it's like it's just to get views. Like it she is rage baiting you and it's working. So you think she is a lesbian? She's trying to rage bait the LGBT community? I don't think she is a lesbian. I think that she is rage baiting for clicks to make money.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. And and rage baiting the queer community.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I don't appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00

No, no, no. You should, you should be. I'm saying you should be enraged. Yeah, it's working. It's working. It's working, I guess. Yes. But also, maybe we don't contribute to her profit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'll try. I'll just leave it at that one comment. So this is gonna be our final ethical dilemma pulled from the series Love Island USA Season 8. The series finale just aired, and we are going to give our thoughts on some of the most recent ethical dilemmas that came up for us while we were watching, as well as kind of the series as a whole. So I'm gonna be stating some opinions. And I will be playing Devil's Advocate, whether I secretly agree with you or not. This week we're going to talk about true friends. Uh-huh. Just like the title of the pod, love under capitalism, and the discourse around reality show contestants. Specifically dating reality show contestants. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a fucking lot. So returning to my question from earlier, how do you feel? Tonight's the first Monday night we've had in a couple weeks. Six weeks, right? I guess.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. No, I there 33 episodes. So maybe a little less.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it's gonna be on August 31st. Oh, yeah. So we maybe we'll have to do an episode on that. Yeah. But it's good because it gives everybody time to get online, talk their shit, go on podcasts. Like we're open for guests. Who would you say no to as a guest?

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know, I think almost anyone is worth having honest guests, even if you don't like them. But the person I would say no to is gall. Because I'm like, I'm like crying. You have nothing to say. Yeah, I wouldn't have gallons like you weren't even there. Casey's at least interesting. I would have Casey. We could talk about stuff. I would have soul on. I would have soul. Oh yeah. I would love to have soul on. Yeah. I'm not really a soul supporter. I think she's weird, but we could have her on and talk about it. But yeah, I also maybe you wouldn't have Dylan on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, he freaks me out.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I'm scared of him. He freaks me out.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I can't even tell you what it is. It's just a gut feeling, and we'll just see.

SPEAKER_00

But I I saw a hot take that like he gives narcissistic abuser.

SPEAKER_01

Did you see the video claiming he's a murderer? What?

SPEAKER_00

No!

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, okay, guys, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

No, we're the conspiracy theories are going too far.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, there's also, did you see this conspiracy theory that Corbin and Parmida came into this like planning to get together? I wouldn't be surprised, to be honest, but I'm gonna give that one 50-50. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Especially because she literally out of herself by saying she DM'd him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but why would she say that if it was a plan?

SPEAKER_00

Just because they had a plan doesn't mean they're smart.

SPEAKER_01

True. Okay. Well, let's get to point number one. You're not a true friend if you endorse emotional self-harm. So in this case, we're talking specifically here about the core four, which I'm curious what your thoughts are on like the concept of the core four, that being Trinity, Anaya, Kata, and Melanie. And they are the four that made it to the finale. A lot of people voted for the core four.

SPEAKER_00

I was number one, very mad that people kept voting for Melanie and Sincere. Like me too. I was like, what are what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01

Who is doing that? And a lot of people, I don't know what social media platforms they're on because they're not on TikTok. Like Melanie and Sincere supporters.

SPEAKER_00

I, or at least not on our algorithms. Yeah. But I think I saw one like theory that people are voting for them because they wanted Melanie to take the 100k for herself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, although this year they didn't even ask about that. I think they're not doing that anymore.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think they should. It seems like pointless to the show.

SPEAKER_01

Splitting it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, who's gonna be like, I'm just gonna take it for myself?

SPEAKER_00

Also, like maybe this is really like shows my class, but like my class growing up, but like I I don't think 100k is that much money. Like oh, yeah, like sure, it'll pay off your student loans and it'll like change your life. Okay, but a car is like $40,000. So if you're only getting $50,000, you're just buying a car.

SPEAKER_01

But not having a car payment could be a huge difference in somebody's like, I agree, but like when we talk about like prize money, you know, like you think love should be more worth more than $100K?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay, we'll just we'll discuss. I just think that what they go through is worth more than $100K.

SPEAKER_01

Like if I was gonna be asked to transfer mayonnaise from my mouth to someone else's mouth, there there would need to be more than 100k. I almost wrote up that episode.

SPEAKER_00

I looked away. I was like looking at it. I fast forwarded. I was like, I can't, I physically cannot watch this.

SPEAKER_01

I'm curious, like, what the fuck is wrong with these producers and like who has such a hardcore food fetish? Foot fetishes, food fetishes, because they were also sitting on cakes. Look me in the eye and tell me that's not a fetish.

SPEAKER_00

No, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Like that was fetish content.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, they are, and they know they are. They like that's why people watch.

SPEAKER_01

So I think fetish content should be more worth more than agree.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I'm saying. Only fans pay OnlyFans creators get paid more. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00

Like, I'm just saying, I'm not saying 100k is not a lot of money. I'm saying it's not a lot of money for all the things they're subjected to or not. Then 90% of them are doing it for free. I know. The only fact that they get half social media clout after this makes it okay to me. If they were not getting that, I'd be like, why the fuck are any of you on this show? Right. Yeah. Is it gonna come back to them in brand deals for real? Okay, but all that being said, the core form.

SPEAKER_01

All that being said, so basically, Melanie was in a very obviously harmful relationship. I don't know. Would you as a professional therapist call it emotional abuse?

SPEAKER_00

Uh emotional manipulation for sure. Okay, yeah. I think abuse to me warrants like a longer period of time. Yeah. Um, but emotional manipulation. Yeah, definitely emotional manipulation.

SPEAKER_01

We really saw this beautiful woman lose her spark, truly. Like the light went out of her eyes. Yes. It was really, really sad.

SPEAKER_00

Like her smile doesn't like go as wide anymore. Like, yeah. She cannot pull it out. She looks kind of empty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And she's like staring off into the distance a lot. And she doesn't have her parents and people who know her and the outside world. They are cut off from all of that. So all you have is the people around you to look out for you. And what we saw was that after Sincere's behavior was exposed at movie night, which is where they watched some of his behavior back that they hadn't all seen before, everyone was stunned silent. Trinity and Anaya still continue to defend, well, I would say mainly Anaya. Mainly Anaya. Continued to defend Sincere, even saying, I'm team sincere, I'm Teen Sincere, and encouraging Melanie to stay with him. I think he really likes you. I think he's really gonna try. And they were seemingly more willing to call out Kenzie's toxic behavior, but not Sincere's. And even saying, like, comparing Kinse to Sincere, which I think is incredibly sexist.

SPEAKER_00

And well, and Kinzie to Corbin, like saying that they were like doing the same thing, but Kenzie was like playing, playing more. Be so fucking for real. Yeah, and like yeah, I didn't appreciate Kenzie's behavior either. Like, I was also not appreciative of the kind of like the just continued experimentation unnecessarily, and like maybe not being as honest as she could have been. Yeah. Um, but like I do think there was a lot of like energy around protecting the boys, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And comparatively to that, when Anaya was disrespected and betrayed by KC, which I would probably say that overall it was less harmful than Sincere, just because yes, he was misogynistic as fuck and disrespectful, but it was like outright, whereas Sincere is like playing her. Melanie was there for Anaya and said, You don't need this, you don't need to build this man up, like you you're gonna be better for this, just let it go. And like really was there for her in a true way. Whereas Anaya came back with the opposite, being like, I think he really likes you, I think you should give him another chance. And maybe it's not Anaya's job to drag Melanie out of that, but I that is not what a true friend would say.

SPEAKER_00

But I I kind of think it is her job. Yeah, I kind of think like that like like if your friend is not gonna be maybe this is why we have a podcast, but like if your friend is not gonna be like that direct with you and like again protect you, then what what are they there for?

SPEAKER_01

Well, they're there to win Love Island, right? So I guess in my mind too, I'm like Anaya, yeah, she's Melanie's friend, but she's also a contestant on the same show. And what she wants is for Melanie and all the core four to get to the final. I feel like these four girls were like, we all need to get to the final, and if she dumps sincere, we won't all four be in the final.

SPEAKER_00

Do you well do you think it was even deeper than that? And being like, okay, if if Melanie and Sincere get to the final four, they definitely won't win, so it gives us a bigger chance of winning.

SPEAKER_01

I wouldn't put that kind of calculation on Anaya. I don't think I think she would be more foolish than than to be that manipulative. Yeah. I think she maybe wanted Melanie to be I don't think she thought that they would beat them. No.

SPEAKER_00

Like I I don't, yeah, I don't necessarily think that. I will say I feel like this season I saw more true friendships and honestly true relationships developing than other seasons. And so, like, as much as like I don't think maybe it's her responsibility as a contestant, I do think she genuinely thinks that they were friends. Yeah, like and the way Melanie like consoled her after KC, like that was a true friend. That was a true friend. If you're not willing to do that in reciprocation, like then like you're not a good friend.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I I do think I would I would have to agree that and anybody who would be Melanie's true friend, including America, the voters. America, let me down once again. Once again, the voting public has let us down by voting Melanie and Sincere into the final two because people like Melanie. Three, right? Final four. Well, they were the top three, but yeah. Yes, they were top three, but they were voted into the final four. And I did not vote for them. Uh no, I don't want her to suffer anymore. No, and anybody who actually cares about her would not do that. And you do like there's a note in here about how sincere's friends did call him out. I do feel like they called him out for making them look stupid and lying to them rather than like out of concern for Melanie. Nobody approached Melanie, and one of the boys could have to be like, you deserve better than this. It was the people who did approach her were the Casa boys who had an underlying motivation of why they would want to say that, and her family who begged her to leave, begged her.

SPEAKER_00

Like that's later on in the outline. Yeah, but like I yeah, that was a tough watch. That was I cried. Yeah, you sh like she should have cried more. Like I it was really sad. And like w but okay, maybe here's like the argument is like she didn't listen to her family. Right. So is it really on the friends then to like?

SPEAKER_01

I do think if they had not been like Team Sincere, Team Sincere, I think if they had in that moment after movie night when she was like thinking about standing up for herself, right? If they had been like, this is unacceptable, we support you. Like if you want out like you deserve it, I think it could have made a difference. But it's not even necessarily about can you change your friend? Right. But it's like about what should you do? Speaking the truth too, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I think a lot of people though are like if they're gonna make their own decision anyways, what's the point of me saying anything? And like Yeah, but they didn't say nothing, they said team sincere. But I but I think the reason oh well yeah, that's true. They did say team sincere.

SPEAKER_01

Or I I do think they like Trinity was more like if you're happy or unhappy, I want you to follow your cards.

SPEAKER_00

And same with Kata. Like, I I think that like on I was more pro-sincere than most of them. And why do you think that is? Should we go there? I've seen some takes on that, but I I don't know if I agree with them. Okay. So like the takes I've seen is that because she like had her own feelings for sincere.

SPEAKER_01

I mean she did stand behind his door on day.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and so she's like attracted to him and trying to like win him over in that sense. But I do think that like I think that she liked him as a person, and so therefore also wanted him to like be happy. Yeah, and I do think she was his friend.

SPEAKER_01

She was more of a true friend to sincere than she was a true friend to Melanie, right? Which is extremely disappointing. Very disappointing to see from a woman. Yeah, her mom did come in and correct her, but she kind of half-assed the correction. The correction. So I don't really know.

SPEAKER_00

All I will say though is like I think a lot of people will look at a friendship and be like, if they're not gonna like take my advice and if people just have to make their own mistakes to learn, then like there's no point in me like beating a dead horse, you know? Like, I think they kind of just were like, you know, Melanie has like time and time again picked sincere, so why why is it on us?

SPEAKER_01

I would agree that there's no point in beating a dead horse, but I would argue that there is a point in saying your truth loud and clear one time.

SPEAKER_00

We we they could have done that, we maybe didn't see it.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe yeah, um, I also think like people's behavior reveals itself, you know, like people make the same choices again and again, and like how much more like served up on a platter could his behavior revealing himself have been than movie night?

SPEAKER_00

No, I'm saying Melanie's like oh she yeah, like she's like excusing it every single giving him chance after chance after chance, and like why waste your breath?

SPEAKER_01

You know, like I guess, yeah, yeah. That's fair enough. So, point number two we are gonna well, I'm gonna state that you can still find love under capitalism. So even in a reality dating show where people get a lot of clout and brand deals and are bribed to fall in love with a hundred thousand dollars, some people can still truly find genuine connections. If people saying genuinely was a drinking game on the show, I would be in the hospital. Genuinely, no, like genuinely, genuinely, like it was driving me genuinely crazy.

SPEAKER_00

The amount of times people said fuck bro, was driving me crazy. Fuck, bro. I know. Do we not have a greater vocabulary?

SPEAKER_01

We need to work on our vocabulary. It's it's horrifying the train with 30-year-old and say moral paragon.

SPEAKER_00

Bryce, well, I I do love Bryce. I yeah, yeah. He he had some faults throughout the show, but certainly I would I would be friends with him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure, me too. Yeah. Did you see that Zach went in to kiss him?

SPEAKER_00

No, he but holding his neck and like he wants it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's really so so so obvious, and he just needs to be honest with himself.

SPEAKER_00

I actually I I know he was like really problematic, but I feel bad for him.

SPEAKER_01

I feel bad for him too, even though I also like he did not deserve to be in the final four, and he was very calculated. He is certainly, in my opinion, someone suppressing his attraction.

SPEAKER_00

Did you see that Bryce's well, I mean he has assumptions, but Bryce's brother's gay?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I saw the assumption that Bryce's brother's gay.

SPEAKER_00

That was never explicitly stated, but yeah, but like I also think the random celebrity cameos were so I think that is why Bryce is a little queer-coated, and he might actually be queer, but like I think he just has exposure to queer culture.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, he's also a model and he's a pretty boy. Right, and like he's intentionally feminine, Zach.

SPEAKER_00

Clearly, like more accepting and like more open to the femininity of his yeah, of whatever, and like than Zack? Way more than Zach, but way more than any of the other men. Sure. And like way more than most quote-unquote straight men that I come across. Yeah. Um, like he's not threatened at all by like expressing femininity, like having his girlfriend paint his nails and like having his lip gloss on her or her lip gloss on him, having his makeup done. Like he's like, he's totally okay with it. And I think that like I don't know, that makes me even more of a like a Bryson Trinity stand. Because I also checked her repost on uh Instagram, and not that it's surprising to anybody, but she's a progressive little queen, like she is standing up in business, so that's great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Does not surprise me at all. Yeah. Did you see that apparently Sincere's family was watching the finale on live and was calling Trinity Ghetto?

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

It reveals reveals more about Sincere than we.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I would say, don't judge me by my family. Sure. So I'd be curious what he has to say about it. Yeah. But he was a very pro-mommy. Yes. Yeah. And not in a fun way. It's never really in a fun way. So it was interesting that his mom came out and was like, I'm so proud of you. Like, we knew, we knew. Mm-hmm. So Trinity and Bryce. Yeah. The winners. Yes. The winners of my heart and the winners of the season.

SPEAKER_00

The only voting the America maybe didn't.

SPEAKER_01

They, to all appearances, developed a very real connection and even seemed to fall in love. When Bryce said I love you, I felt that shit.

SPEAKER_00

He meant it. You could see it in his eyes. He meant it. No, he literally he was surprised he fell in love. Yeah. You know, and like that's how you know it was real. Yeah. And I think she was surprised that she did too. Like they they truly are like a fairy tale. As much as they tried to make a nine car all their own little like fairy tale, I think that like it was actually Trinity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I know. I I do think that there that goes to show that like even with how corrupt and and calculated everything is, like, and commercialized, there if people go in with a genuine heart, yeah, a pure heart will always win. You know what I mean? Not necessarily saying that they were bound to win the 100k, right? But that they did find a connection because that is they went into with open hearts looking for a connection and they they fell in love.

SPEAKER_00

Like how every other couple was like, I've already won. And I was like, No, you haven't. Like, especially when Kenzie said that, I was like, get out. I think Kenzie had a great attitude. I think she was pushing for the show. No, she I came around to her more towards the end. Um, but yeah, like I but when she said that I was like, You and Dylan are not gonna talk outside of the show. I'm curious, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't trust Dylan. I think Kenzie's being sincere, genuine, but she's being genuine, but I don't trust that man. No, I'm scared of him. There's something that is weird about him.

SPEAKER_00

He I read a whole post about him and like abusive tendencies and how he showed a lot of them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

From a DV therapist. Oh shit. And yeah, I was like, I I had weird vibes from him from when he cried after she died. That was my number one red flag, and I was like scared. That too easily. He wanted to make her feel bad. Make her feel bad. Like, can the girl get out?

SPEAKER_01

Girl get out. Yeah. So it was interesting. You wrote five out of the six final couples seem to be actually truly invested in each other and in continuing their relationships up to the I would say two out of six, so let's argue.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so maybe a couple of them I may clarify, at least one of the person in the relationship.

SPEAKER_01

So let's review the final six and we'll we'll give our quick opinion. So Kenzie and Dylan, we just discussed Kenzie was being genuine, Dylan was not. So it's not reciprocal.

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't think either of them wanted to. Oh, really? Yeah. You don't think Kenzie really likes him? I think she likes him as much as he's available at the moment. Okay, interesting. Yeah. Casey and TT. I think that's real. I think they are gonna continue it.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's real, but then also seeing them come out of the villa and start to go on their like everybody's just against us tour is making me question it. I did feel like both of them were in it to win it and were very disappointed not to be in the finale.

SPEAKER_00

I think they were, but I I I don't why did he ask her? Didn't he just ask her to be a girlfriend to get to the final four? Possibly. I don't know. I kind of think that they were they're legit, but I think the whole like like haters tour it is who they are though.

SPEAKER_01

Like I don't think that's I don't really like them, but they do like each other. Right, exactly. Okay, I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, look, I came around to TT quite a bit. Like I I don't know. I'm disappointed in her choice in mid, but I I had a like stop sword for her.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we'll see. Yeah. She said that she doesn't have a lot of friends, and then she was like, I found friends here, and then on After Sun, she said when they asked her, Are you gonna be friends with people outside of this? She said no.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I didn't watch After Sun. I did.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that that rubbed me the wrong way. And then people have also noticed that she's not following Anaya, Trinity, and Kata.

SPEAKER_00

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

So we'll see at the reunion. We'll see if you if you feel the same way. Zach and Kata.

SPEAKER_00

I think Kata means I don't like Zach does.

SPEAKER_01

I think Kata likes Zach. I think Zach is.

SPEAKER_00

It was so interesting that he was so willing to be like, I'll come wherever she is.

SPEAKER_01

Three things.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

One.

SPEAKER_01

One, he wants that visa. But he's in Australia. Why do you want to be here? Two, he he's gonna be famous from Love Island, USA. That's true. So where he's gonna go?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

USA. Yeah. Three. The man he's in love with is in the USA. Is in the USA. Yeah. I'm dead ass. Kata likes Zach and Zach likes Bryce.

SPEAKER_00

He talked so much about being where Bryce was and being all together around each other. Staying with Bryce, all of it. Low key, low-key. What if Trinity actually has the um whatchamacallit moment? The come to Jesus moment? No, no, no, no. The tennis movie within day. Challengers.

SPEAKER_01

Challengers is the moment we missed with Kata. Yeah. Maybe if they're all open-minded, it could be. I actually think that could be beautiful. He wants that man bad. I mean, if they were in a little polycule, but I don't think Trinity and Zach really get along. Well, because Zach is jealous of Trinity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I don't think Zach is really attracted to women, so I don't really think that it'll go there.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah. And I think Trinity's gonna want Bryce for herself. Okay, Melanie and Sincere.

SPEAKER_00

I unfortunately do think it's genuine. Um, but I You think it's reciprocal. Yes. Mm-hmm. Unfortunately. Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think I agree.

SPEAKER_00

You from Sincere's side?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Okay. Melanie likes Sincere. I think Sincere's a fucking sociopath.

SPEAKER_00

This goes all against what you originally preached about, Sincere. What do you mean? You told the audience that he was a people pleaser.

SPEAKER_01

And that you convinced me. Yes, and I I don't think it's real. I don't think there's love behind his eyes. Are we saying that that's how we're defining investment? I don't know. I well, yeah, maybe they will date, but he's gonna do her very dirty. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't think no, but I I think about like every toxic high school relationship I've I've ever witnessed, and I think they both will leave their truly in love, even though they're not. Like I think he thinks he loves her.

SPEAKER_01

I actually don't know if either of them love each other because I felt like her body language in the last few episodes, like her body is rejecting him.

SPEAKER_00

She wants to love him, but like her body knows that it's like disgusted. Yeah, she's disgusted in her soul, like she should be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I don't know. I can't I can't put them on the the genuine train.

SPEAKER_00

I think the only reason I mean genuine is like they they believe it about themselves. Sure. Like I don't think that it's real, but they they think it's real.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Anaya and Carl. I actually I'm not so sure about them. What? Yeah. I I think that they may they would not have been together outside of this like experiment. I'm worried that Anaya's not gonna treat Carl right.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. Is that crazy? Say more. There were a few things that rub me the wrong way about Anaya in this experience. Yeah. I think that she was not without blame in the kerfuffle. I do think that she's a very insecure and somewhat spoiled person.

SPEAKER_00

I do think she she repped that princess title well.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Yeah. And I think Carl seems a little more down-to-earth.

SPEAKER_00

Every time he talks about Buddhism or Japanese-Chinese thing, I'm like Carl.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I can see why he appeals to her, but she's a little young, a little immature. Yeah. And a little how old is she? Like 23 or something.

SPEAKER_00

And how old is C, do we know? I don't know. We can look at it. I want their moms to be friends, though, no matter what happens. Gorgeous mothers. But give them a panteen commercial ASAP. Absolutely. Carl's mother was uh call me girl. She's still stunning. Stunning.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, I don't know. I'm a little bit concerned that if she might not treat him right.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

We'll see.

SPEAKER_00

I I think that she's probably a little bit more of like a party girl than Carl is, you know, like a little bit Who's wearing khakis. I know. And he released the moth into TV. He's wearing khakis. Um I think he's if he wears mouth tape. Like on TV. He's serious. On T they probably all do that off TV, but like on TV is crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Maybe he snores and he was like, I'm not, I'm not gonna subject everybody to.

SPEAKER_00

He seemed like I I believe who he was on camera is who he is off camera. And maybe I'm wrong, but like he convinced me well enough to believe that that's who he was. Yeah. Um, I'm not convinced that Anaya is a hundred percent who she is off camera. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um I think she's a bit of a weak personality. I think she's a bit of a follower. She was very easily influenced by her friends, and I think we see when her mother came in, like where that comes from. It's like, oh, there is a very strong, dominant personality that maybe has influenced you your whole life.

SPEAKER_00

I also think when you have someone who is like taking care of you and told you how to live your whole life. Like if you if her dad, I'm making assumptions, but if her dad is an NBA star, they probably have a lot of money. Yeah. And they probably she's not probably had to make a lot of hard choices in her life. Right. And she's smart enough and pretty enough and talented enough to not try very hard at a lot of things. Yeah. And so things have come to her easily and naturally. So she hasn't had to be a mean person, a spiteful person, a like strong person, a stubborn person. Like she hasn't had to be those things. Yeah. So what I actually imagine happening is not that Anaya won't treat Carl right, Carl will get bored. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I guess we will see, maybe. Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. So even the sh though the show is like very gimmicky and like forced, right? And contrived. There are there do seem to be people that really care.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and even though some of these people who say they don't care about winning, I don't know if they're correct, but there's a concept of like being here for the right reasons. And it's like, is there is there a right reason to go on Love Island?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, if you want to become an influencer, right?

SPEAKER_01

Like, is that okay? Last season was like influencer island.

SPEAKER_00

This season not so much. I think I would be dying to know how Carl and Bryce wound up on the show. Like, I know Bryce was scouted. That's what I've heard. Yeah. Um, but I'm just like, how did how did you agree and how did you end up? Bryce probably wants to, you know, like launch his modeling and DJ career. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think that like a lot of these people are like, why not? You know, just like why not? There's no harm. So I might as well.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is a game show, and so I can't necessarily fault people for treating it that way, but I think I think it's the wrong way to go through life, right? Like, I think we see it perfectly encapsulated in Zach. Like he was playing it like a game. And can I blame him for that? Like, it is a game. He's on a TV show. Like, he I don't think he was necessarily looking for love, right? Like, you get what you come for, right?

SPEAKER_00

I am so curious to see how he'll respond to all the gay allegations coming out. Like, yeah, I just and Kata, honestly, like I'm a little worried. I'm worried for her. She'll be fine, she'll get a modeling contract and she'll be fine. But like, I it's gonna be difficult. Yeah, like at least for a little bit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's never great to like out somebody.

SPEAKER_00

No, and he may not have to be. No, he's not ready, and he may never be like he he may deny that up and down the rest of his life. Like, yeah, we don't I I actually think that is more likely than him coming out.

SPEAKER_01

I would agree. Yeah. So it is also interesting that the one angling for winning the game did not. Zach didn't touch that 100k. Not on my watch. Text to vote. Not on my watch. I actually missed the voting for the finale. Finale. Finale, yeah. But my winner's one anyway. I think there is something, like you said, to be said for the summer camp effect of they are all alone. You're gonna get you're gonna get crutches on people when you're like stuck with them for a certain time. The proximity of it all, like proximity is so real, and then also it they create this like Garden of Eden for them, right? There's no phones, there's no outside world, there's just beautiful people wandering around eating pancakes. Like, I mean, what a dream. What else could you want? The big question of Love Island is like, am I gonna be chosen even if somebody hot comes in? You know, and for some of these people, they seem to have found a genuine connection. Do you think two of those people are Corbin and Permita?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, kind of. Like, I would really not be surprised if they continue to have a relationship. Maybe it won't last forever, but I I would not be surprised if they have a real relationship.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And and truthfully, too, no matter what, no matter how detached people are or how much they try to see it as a game show, like the humanity is gonna come through. Like you see people's actual feelings, jealousy, desire, vulnerability. Yeah, it's gonna come through. Yeah you know, I I think that gives me some hope.

SPEAKER_00

It gives me some hope. I also, but I also kind of like I don't actually I think I disagree where like I don't think Love Island is that different than like sliding into somebody someone's DMs. Like Did I say it was different?

SPEAKER_01

Well Or you mean like the the Garden of Eden concept?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and like the whole like like who is it are you here for the right reasons by going on this show? Like what are your true intentions? Um and like I don't I think any of these people could have slid into each other's DMs and also gone on a date, you know, like and also like had a relationship. So like for me they're just like seeking an avenue to like do that while also becoming famous, yeah. Um, and so like I I don't know, I think that like the gimmick of it all isn't isn't actually that gimmicky to me.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. I yeah, I guess maybe I disagree. I think regardless, like there is something beautiful about putting yourself out there for public humiliation on the quest to find human connection.

SPEAKER_00

I don't think I could do it. I'll never come back from the food challenge they just did. Truly repulsive. I will think about that for the rest of my life. Truly repulsive beans, sardines, fish heads, who like who when did a fear factor get licensed on this? There was no need. Yeah, there's no need.

SPEAKER_01

What was that demonstrating? What was that about?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it goes back to like what you said time and time again. It's like it's a humiliation ritual. Yeah, like that really is what it, and maybe it is like fetish content as well, but like it really feels like a humiliation ritual. Like, let's watch these hot people do something disgusting. Suffer.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking gross. So, final point reality dating shows give us the opportunity to examine our biases and assumptions, and for that reason, reality TV dating can have a positive effect on society. You heard it here first. So, the four black women being in the final four, like that is some representation, right? That might not otherwise be seen.

SPEAKER_00

And like two darker skinned women, yes, yeah, and we're in the top two. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

There was also there's also been a lot of discourse about black love. There's been a lot of examination of like KC and his behavior. He's had his defenders, he's had his attackers. There have been people who have been explaining why the Sincere acts the way he does, and people realizing that they've been gaslit just like Sincere gaslit Melanie, right? And there's also been this big divide on Melanie and whether she should be ridiculed for being an idiot. We can't save her or fuck her, like whatever, or is she just following her heart? I'd love to know what you think about that, and also about like kind of the discourse in general.

SPEAKER_00

Um I I don't know, I maybe it's like the therapist in me, but like I I do think most people do the best with what they have. Yeah. And I think that like I mean that with as much as it like hurts me to say this, like I mean that with Casey and Sincere as well. Like, yeah. I think that they like are doing the best with what they got, and like they they have lots of room to grow, and people should call them out and people should like engage with them, but to like cancel them, hate on them, like all of that, like I think that is not productive. Um and like I wanna like really remember that like the men of this season other than Bryce like were in COVID during some of their most formative years as boys, like they and and even outside of COVID, like were so perpetually on social media that I think they truly like have no idea what it's like to like be a friend, be in a relationship, treat a woman correctly. Like I'm not that's not an excuse, and like there are plenty of boys and men who were also during that during that phase and are not like that. So like it's not an excuse, but I think it contributes.

SPEAKER_01

I completely agree, and maybe our you know, collective opinion will be unpopular, but ultimately I would want to say to the group, to the America, the media machine, yeah, right, um, that these are these are real people, right? That's something the cliche that we keep repeating. But if you thought about your dating life at 23 being broadcast on national television, I don't know that anything I think the discourse would be kind to you, right? So like I honestly have almost no blame for Melanie. People are like, she's so fucking stupid. Like, you know, she should know better. We can't save her, but she is doing the best she can. She came here to look for love, she's trying to practice forgiveness, she's trying to follow her heart. She's young, she has not probably had this exact experience before, and she does not know better. Yeah, and yeah, same thing with Kenzie, Anaya, KC, Sincere, all of them. They are young people who are doing their best. And I do think there is a benefit to discussing the behavior and what's healthful and not healthful about it, but choosing to either stand them and act like they can do no wrong or demonize them and act like they're the devil, neither of those things is good.

SPEAKER_00

They they need to be treated with kindness and compassion and like evens that just respect, like just respect, yeah, like uh baseline. It reminds me a lot of Taylor Frankie Paul and Secret Lives Mormon Lives, like how people to this day are like defending her, attacking the other wives on on like on social media, like coming, yeah, I coming after anyone who's against her, and I'm like, Taylor does not deserve all this hate, sure. But like for you to spend your time attacking other women for comments they've made about her is also extremely harmful, and like maybe recognize some of the flaws that Taylor has and the like ownership that she needs to take in like those relationships, and so I feel the same way about this, where like like you said, like the allegiance that we're finding to these people because of our parasocial relationships to them is scary, yeah. Like it is, yeah, we did a whole four episodes about it, but like this might be the fifth. Oh god. Um, but I also like I'm not spending any time commenting on their social media, I'm not like hunting down people online who make mean comments to them or who make nice comments to them. Like, yeah, I like I watch the show, I do this podcast with you, and I like close out my apps, you know? Like I have a lot of other things going on, and like to have so much time invested in these people who will never engage with you in real life.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, but it could do material damage to their mental health exactly in the real world. Everybody, everybody talking about how gay Zach is, which we are as well, yeah, that could hurt him.

SPEAKER_00

It will hurt, it will hurt him.

unknown

Fuck.

SPEAKER_00

I know, yeah. I thought about that after actually we did our first episode, and I like I I saw a TikTok about like how like, or maybe a post or whatever, it's like no matter what you believe, like it is harmful to speculate on someone's sexuality.

SPEAKER_01

We'll have to discuss that off pod. Yeah. But yeah, parasocial relationships are unhealthy. Whether you are hating on somebody and being like, this is the worst person I've ever seen, or defending them down and just being like, they can do no wrong. Yo, the rest of y'all are wrong, they're perfect. It is not good. This should be like uh you should view this as an uh like you should view the other human beings in your life as complex people who make mistakes and have flaws and are trying their best and have things that we should look up to about them, things that we should show them compassion for and things that we might find distasteful. Right. And the best thing that you can do if you hate somebody is to disengage. Yeah. I actually did unfollow a creator on TikTok who is a KC defender. You told me I hadn't I hadn't seen it really enjoying his takes, but it did actually get under my skin, right? And it is a disagreement, right? It's a disagreement on how people should treat people, and to me, the sexism of it is just really troubling. And I I think that KC is a just a flawed young man, right? Like I don't think that he's evil. No, um, and I don't think sincere is evil either at all. Sincere probably concerns me the most. I also think that I worry a lot about Zach and his behavior, like his behavior towards K, I think, is gonna be pretty harmful. No, to her self-esteem, and that's not good. And we need to protect people from that, we need to call that out, but we don't need to ever throw hate people's way. Like, people have been really harsh towards Anaya and Melanie as well, and I just think that's so wildly unnecessary, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It extremely unnecessary. Um I don't have a lot more to add to like what you said. I but I do think that like at the end of the day, I think people ride so hard for these people because they truly think that there's like an emotional connection between them as the viewer, but it's not because an emotional connection has to be reciprocated. It is 100% agree with that, but I think that that that's like the problem with a lot of this, like a the show and B E social media is the way that they facilitate that. Yeah, like there are very few shows, reality TV shows, that foster that connection the way that Love Island does.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's the real time of it all. I mean, yeah, I got pretty deep into it. Like, I'm watching it at eight o'clock every night. I'm I'm starting my day on TikTok, like looking at the discourse, I'm I'm ending my day on Instagram, looking at the memes. Like it was not, I don't think it was great for my brain, which kind of goes against what I'm saying, but I guess overall, do you think that this type of show like is adds something positive or negative to society and to us?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's unifying. Um, I think people across like race, gender, sexuality, like political spectrum, like all watch it and like engage for five weeks on social media about it, and like I do think ironically it's one of the most unifying things that we have in our country right now. So, like, I I will give it that. I don't think it is harmful enough that it should stop. Okay. So you think the benefit always the harm? Or at least at least the neutrality.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, gets us to a gets us to a what do you think? I'm a little torn. I don't feel like I it was great for me necessarily, but honestly, it did bring me a lot of enjoyment and a lot of thinking and discussion, and and it I I always say honestly, I think it did enrich my life more than harmed it. Harmed it. There's been stuff that's been more destructive to my life than Love Island, that's sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_00

In your actual real life, too, that you just can't like disconnect from. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

And I can't unsubscribe from that subscription. So I think we really honestly did talk about our practical advice, which is like just please keep this in perspective. If you're finding yourself really heated about something, take a step back. It's it's gonna be okay. A couple things we did disagree on just to talk about are hard truths. So is it is it Anaya's job? Is it a friend's job to pull somebody out of a toxic relationship?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's I I was not being 100% truthful when I was like saying like if someone does something time and time again, like why keep going back to them and tell or telling them not going back to them, telling them to stop. Um I do think it was your job to like stand on business as a friend. Yeah. Like even if it costs you the friendship. Unfortunately, I agree. I know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Does do you think that Love Island people can find loved under capitalism? That it that a reality dating show that offers a hundred thousand dollars cash prize can be a good place to go find love.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I really do. I really am like love can be anywhere. I think I do too. Yeah. Which actually kind of makes me feel really like hopeful. I know. It's a Shakespeareaness.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I guess so. And then finally, I guess we did talk about like it's kind of a net neutral to you. I think I think I find it a net positive, although I'm I'm concerned about whether it will be a net positive for the participants.

SPEAKER_00

I I know I've said this a hundred times, but I just go back to the like they kind of knew what they were signing up for. I guess, yeah. I also like I think about how like I watched last year's season as well. Can't tell you most of the contestants' names right now.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I can.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01

You don't remember Huda?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, I said most. Ace, Shelly. But if you had asked me to like to like bring them up out of my mind without you saying them, I I wouldn't have I'll have Alandria, Nick, Huda, and Nick. That's who I got.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, and Amaya Papaya, but that was it. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. Pepe. Don't remember Pepe. That's for the best. That's Jeremiah. No. Wow. So Jeremiah was with Huda? Yeah. Okay. See, that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm I'm not thinking about these people today. Like, like, no matter how bad. That's good. That's good. Right. No matter how much like flack these people are getting right now as they're coming out of the villa, it is not gonna fade. Right. It'll fade. That's why I feel kind of okay about it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, okay. That's fair enough. The discourse, like it chews you up, it spits you out, and then it people moves on to the next cast, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Like, that's the beauty of having multiple seasons of a show. That's so true.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So cancel or comeback early 2010s fashion.

SPEAKER_00

So I think specifically about Trinity. Yeah. She had and um actually Melanie had a couple fits that were very 2010s. Um, I'm sorry, cancel. I I hate it. I think it's atrocious. I loved it. He would. Yes. Yeah, the camera, like I don't know. It was cute. I liked it. Trinity wore these boots, furry boots at one point.

SPEAKER_01

It was like, girl, we're at the scene goes in the DJ booth.

SPEAKER_00

That's not the only acceptable time. She was serving cut. We were in the stand. What is going on? Alright. Uh okay, how about foot, bro? I was, I don't know if you felt this way. I was over the amount of swearing that was happening this season. Like it it was like a substitute for conveying meaning. Yes. They had no other vocabulary. Yeah, that's concerning. The the swearing was the only way for them to convey emotion. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Literally. And so I was just like, oh my god. And every other word was like, was fuck.

SPEAKER_01

And I was like, fuck should be like a strong spice that's like sprinkled in with care to really make your dish. With purpose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like intention. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

It should not be the exclamation point videos of your expression. And then you do it. So yeah. So I just learned some vocabulary.

SPEAKER_00

Car cancel. Also cancel on bruh. Like I really I just like I don't I didn't mind it that much before this season, but now I'm like, stop saying it. In particular.

SPEAKER_01

In particular, sir. How about public voting on reality TV? I think I'm cancel. I know, I know. You know what? I do think I agree because why did America get to decide?

SPEAKER_00

Why did America put Melanie through that manipulation week after week?

SPEAKER_01

Week after week. Who should decide who wins? Love Island.

SPEAKER_00

I kind of like when the contestants voted for each other.

SPEAKER_01

I know, but they're they all have their so much bias. Like the whole point of us watching them on film is we know things they don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. I yeah, I or like you like on other shows, I feel like you just get cast out through other like challenges. Yeah, other means, like challenges or like evidence that like you weren't compatible together. Like, you know, like Do you think they did Zack and Kata dirty with that that date, that sandwich in the swamp? What the fuck was that? I was like watching and I was like, everyone else got this beautiful magical moment and Kata and Zach were we're tracking it through the butt.

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, they ruined Kata's hair, which is rude.

SPEAKER_00

Very rude. And why'd I tell her to be in that dress? I know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. It was in the sandwich. Yes, pathetic, guys. Come on.

SPEAKER_00

That was we get it.

SPEAKER_01

Zach sucks, but like, come on.

SPEAKER_00

Very rude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, cancel or comeback. Your family telling you to leave your toxic boyfriend.

SPEAKER_00

Come back. I even if they're wrong, you've got to have just like family opinion, I think needs to be more accepted into relationships, in my opinion. I know. Hot take, hot take.

SPEAKER_01

Disagree.

SPEAKER_00

I know, girl.

SPEAKER_01

From a gay person, I gotta disagree.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Okay, if they're homophobic, but like I I think in general, like people are okay.

SPEAKER_01

I think you should value the opinion of people you respect about your relationship.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. I I even think though, maybe I just think that like even if you don't respect the drama or like the person, like the drama of it all should be known. Like your mom's crazy and she hates your girlfriend, you know, to pick your mom or your girlfriend at that point. You know, like I think that like it gives you some insight on how to move forward with your life, even if you're not picking your family.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I guess I'm gonna say come back, even though I don't think it will work. But go ahead. Like, oh, it won't cause people to I don't think people will actually leave their toxic boyfriend. Yeah, but yeah, go ahead and tell them.

SPEAKER_00

I just yeah, why are we spending every Thanksgiving like pretending like we're having a good time?

SPEAKER_01

You know? Like, let's let's make it That's my question. Yeah. Cancel or come back, second chances, third chances, fourth chances.

SPEAKER_00

I am not a second chance girl. Like, there are there are no second chances for me, and I stand on that.

SPEAKER_01

It depends on the nature of the offense. But yes, I would agree. I am like I don't circle back. So once the door is closed, it's closed, but I will hold it open as long as I feel like I can. So I do relate to Melanie in that sense where I'm like, I do want to leave it all out on the table and know that I did everything I could. And once it's done, it's done. So I don't know. Yeah. Once I'm I don't think I'm that way. No, I don't think you are either for better or worse. If you have comments, questions, criticisms, compliments, or concerns, you can email us at true friends at gmail.com. You can find me on Substacks at something on Instagram at something and at existential gay on.

SPEAKER_00

Are you online again?

SPEAKER_01

Uh Instagram, I'm at the better bradshaw. Okay. And Substack, I think I changed it back to Existential Gay.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And uh you can read my bi weekly column about weed in the Austin Chronicle and buy my novel Good Christian Girls Anywhere You Buy Books. Join us next week and subscribe and review to become a true friend of the pod.

SPEAKER_00

Bye.