Trips and Truths | Ep 13

After spending a lot of time on the road in recent months, Maxine and Isabelle unpack what travel really looks like without alcohol. From airport culture and in-flight drink carts to liquor stores in cities across the country, talking about it helps move the needle.  They explore why vacation has become so intrinsically linked to drinking (from the moment you arrive at the airport) and what happens when you replace that default. The result: new rituals, more energy, deeper presence, and no hangovers... even in paradise.  They share practical tips for navigating travel alcohol-free, from bringing your own options to advocating for better zero-proof offerings at bars, restaurants, and airlines. The conversation also highlights the growing sober and sober-curious movement—particularly the role women are playing as founders and consumers—and spotlights brands like Raising the Bar, making it easier to bring elevated alcohol-free experiences anywhere.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi everybody, welcome back to HappyAF. I am Maxine and I am happy alcohol free. And I am Isabel and I'm happy as fuck. We are so happy to be back sharing more stories with you today. We're here to entertain you, and uh I think so far so good. We've been I entertain me, so I know that's working. And I entertain you, and you entertain me, so at least it's working on this line. It's working here. Um, and as always, want to start with liquid joy, but today I want to talk about this amazing company who you had told me about earlier on. Anyway, they discovered our podcast and they sent us some stuff. So if you're watching, you can see this lovely box. It's called Raising the Bar Zero Proof Cocktail Kits.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

And there it are the ones amazing! Yes, when I discovered them on Instagram in a early, early on when I quit drinking, and they are responsible for making me go through the first three months in a smooth fashion. Oh because they gave me something to look forward to and to make, and it was like it it really was a great support for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Well, um, I I realize I'm making life for our audio engineerslash my husband really hard with all my moving around here. But let's open the box because I want to tell everybody about this. Because, first of all, um these these folks are amazing. And this is uh Abby, who is the co-founder and CEO. So look, you get this box, and it's literally a box full of things for you to make delicious drinks with.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

And all the recipes are in there well detailed.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

So it's got all of these different things to make a delicious mocktail with.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

So if we started by like, so I already looked at the mocktails, so we're drinking straight up some of the cans they sent. I think on this particular one that they have a theme, and the theme on this one is gonna be uh limey things and gingery things. Yes, well, it's called the shrub club. Right. So um, they have three mocktails, like this one has ginger mule, and it comes with some ginger lime um syrups. They have also the little candy ginger to make the garnish. They add there for your garnish, they guide you through the garnish.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

But look at this grapefruit tonic.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

I've discovered because of the raising the bar, not only did I discover mocktail, but I still to this day buy specific herb teas, companies that I've discovered because of them. There's a tea bag in here too. They I've discovered and the herb, the herb tea that's Sunset Chamomile. And I've discovered syrups because of them. So they and one of their things is they branch out to small batch manufacturers. Yes, and organic.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

And I just give a shout out to women-owned businesses. Yes, absolutely. Um, because uh that's very much a part of this. You know, I said to my amazing mother-in-law the other day, who is when I come back from being in New York, uh, having spent a couple of days with her, right? My feminism radiates like from every core of my being, um, because I just get to talk to her. And you know, yeah, she shattered so many glass ceilings throughout her life in business. And um, and we were we were just talking about something, and and I came back and I was just like, I was just feeling so empowered. But I said to her about there's so many, oh, women are fueling this zero-proof movement. Oh god, yes. And she said, women fuel everything. She's a little bit right. And I'm like, She's a little bit right. Um, so yes, so shout out to uh Ali, who's uh the co-founder and CEO. Um Abby, sorry, Abby, uh so co-founder and CEO of Raising the Bar. And all of these amazing things, they're they're just so well curated. Super well curated. This is ginger, ginger lemon non-alcoholic drink mixer. You know, the other thing that we loved and we uh really understood better when we did the tasting at the Dorsey. Yeah, that's right. That was so much fun. Mixing the non-alcoholic alternatives to gin and mixing with these non-alcoholic mixers, there's it adds a level of depth and a level of complexity that you're not really getting in some of the pre-mixed things.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Oh, I could not agree more. And a lot of these non-alcoholic tequila and gin and whatever, they add capsane. So you get that little bit of alcohol burn out of that.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And look at these. These are hay straws, natural drinking straws.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Oh, they always have the best little kits, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

I mean, this is so for those of you who are like, ooh, I would like to have a little exploration into making different cocktails myself. And then inside this box also came two cans. This one is called Hela, Hela Refreshers. So Hella Refreshers, naturally sweetened Yuzu, Yuzu sparkling beverage. So I'm drinking that. And what are you drinking?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

I'm drinking the ginger mule.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Oh, see, I love the recess brand.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Yeah, I like yeah. So this is recessure approved ginger lime mule. And again, these two uh cans are also part of a mockdown, or you can drink them straight out. Right, and you can add them to this. Yes. Well, cheers. Cheers.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Here's to more discovering so many of these different alternatives. When people ask me the question often, and I know you get asked this too, is what are some of the things that have made quitting drink alcohol easier? And it's 100% a massive uh factor in my success, is the alternatives that are available on the market.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

For me, there's no doubt.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

For me, there's no doubt I would have had this joy and this ease of transition throughout all of these things.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Not for me, because I'm a I'm an animal of habit, of rituals, like cigarette smoking was part of that, and then you get addicted to the nicotine, wine drinking was part of that, then I got addicted to the alcohol, so that I could replace it with something that doesn't have to be addictive. Oh it and it's funny because that kind of loops in into the like we were gonna talk about travels and stuff, and if I can talk about my any experience in Kentucky, that I realized that I was not addicted to NA wine. Yes, yes. Well, you mentioned that since we're talking about that, so I was traveling all over down south and I was in Kentucky, and so far, everywhere I've been, I'll call a liquor store because I'm quote unquote addicted to non-alcoholic wine, or so I thought, right? Like it's part of my ritual, and I'm a very bullish, stubborn person. So I'm like, I'm gonna get it, nobody's gonna stop me. So I've been pretty much all over the country, and every time, by the time I get out of the plane, I've located a liquor store. I asked them what they got, and if they don't like, if I don't like the brands, I call another one and I get what I like eventually. So in Kentucky, after a long day, which I won't bore you with, I called three or four liquor stores, and every single one of them didn't have any wine, except one, and she was really helpful, but she gave me the brand and I won't name it. And it's like it's kind of like when you were drinking alcohol, like you wouldn't drink grocery store wine. Okay, it was the equivalent of grocery store wine. Remember about the Chateau Diane, the Chateau's like a non-alcoholic Chateau Diane. There's no bloody way I was gonna drink that. Right, you're like nothing, and then the fourth one, and they're so nice in Kentucky. The people in Kentucky are so lovely. So again, I'm like, uh, do you have non-alcoholic wine? And the person's like, ah, so he probably thought, shit, she doesn't want real wine. He's like, no, I don't have non-alcoholic wine, but we do have bourbon. And like he was he was trying to be helpful, he was not trying to be funny, and I was like, Oh god, he's like, What do you think? And I'm like, Well, that's what I was on the market for, but thank you. But the point is, I went to the bar, uh, I like to have bar dinners at bars, and I'm at a bar, and you know, I had to have uh just seltzer, right? And I had a burger and I went to bed, you know, and I chatted with the bartender probably for an hour or so after I was done eating. And the reason I'm saying that is when I was on the sauce, if I did not, if for some reason I could not have found liquor, I would have shoved my burger in my face and I would have ran to my bedroom and wait for that day to be able to do it. To not be in an alcohol environment in that. No, but when I was drinking, let's say I could not have had alcohol, I would have been so upset and uncomfortable, I would have wanted to go to bed right away. Um, and now the next day when I woke up, I realized shit, I didn't have non-alcoholic wine yesterday. And I was bummed out about it for maybe 10 seconds. Yes. And I didn't think so. The conclusion is I'm not addicted to NA wine. No. Is it a ritual that is very important to me?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Absolutely. Yes. And here's what we are hoping through more people having conversations about it, more people talking about it on podcasts, is that those rituals um we want to retain a lot of it, but it's not always available to us. It has to be more accessible, and it needs to be more accessible. So when we have more time or or we're cloned, one of the other things I want to do is I want to be able to highlight the places that do it well. Can I do that? Yes, please do. You know, we need to do it. So I have too been all over the place. And I have had everything from menus as big as cocktail menus, uh-huh, but but zero proof. Right. And I've had people say, well, we have juice. And you know, it's like the so the more we talk about it, um, and speaking of women who uh are our movers and shakers, two incredible women, Hannah and Holly, Hannah Delaney, who um is uh one of the leaders of Boisson. Oh, I know Boisson.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

They used to have a store on Court Street in Brooklyn.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

They yes, so now they are exclusively online. Yeah and it is the one-stop shop for online for a zero-proof everything. But she uh I was at um an event at the Maze, which I have told you about, which is this first and only, as of now, alcohol-free club, members' club, in New York City. And I did a performance there as part of the whole St. Patrick's Day celebration, and it was amazing. Celebrating St. Patrick's Day in a non-alcoholic environment was was mind-blowing. Mind blowing and so refreshing. So completely sold out. The frickin' room was two capacities. Was it mainly women or half and half? I would say it was half and half. Oh my god, I would say half okay. No, maybe not half and half, maybe 60, maybe 64. But that's pretty pretty close. I'm glad that it was already close. But there were a lot of women who are um fueling, like I said, fueling this uh zero-proof movement. And I met another amazing woman, Wesley, who's the founder of uh Society Della Rassi, which is another bought that bottle. I said I'm saving it for you. That's a bottle I've got to do. Okay, so we're gonna we're gonna do a liquid joy segment. And that maybe on the next one. But here's what these women were saying to me. Here's what I want to ask all of our listeners to do. When you are in a bar or you are in a restaurant, even if you don't see it on the menu, ask for it. Yes. Ask if you have a good relationship with that relation with that restaurant to carry it. We just had an example of this in our town with one of our amazing local restaurants uh called the Silver Fork. And um, Melody, who's one of the owners of that, she was one of our friends was in there who's a new alcohol-free liver and lifer. And she went in and said, Um, I wish you would carry non-alcoholic wines. And the owner was like, Well, we will, and they're going to do that. Right. So here's the message from the people who are making the non-alcoholic beverages and selling them is when you are out and about, ask.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Or do, or you know what I do? I bring my own, and I'm like, I'll pay the Corkage fee, and oftentimes I'll say no, or they'll charge me a little something, but they realize a loss of revenue because I'm bringing my own. I'm in my own every time, you know that I'm so stubborn about it.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

But some places don't, and some people aren't going with their own. No, but at least right, but like you're right. If you're not bringing that's what I'm saying, or bring your own. Bring your own, but bring it up. But these women were saying from a business perspective, right? Their biggest help in continuing this movement is having people talk about it in the hospitality um space. But that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

If you bring your own to the restaurant, you're shining a light to the fact that they're not having it on the menu. That's why every time I'm like, do you have it on the menu? They're like, no. I'm like, well, then I brought my own. But like, you know, like to bring to shine a light on this. And it's funny you mentioned that because that loops in to women and how many more people are not drinking and wish it. So yesterday, on my return home, late at like 7:30-ish or so at dinner and at the airport in Detroit, I like to go at Vino Volo, which is their food's pretty good. And obviously, it's a wine bar. Do they have non-alcoholic wine? Check this out. So I'm like, okay, Vino Volo. I did not expect they would. It's a wine bar. Yes. But their food's good. I'm like, I'm gonna sit down, I'll sell her. I open the bloody fucking menu. Oh well, my God. I see two non-alcoholic wine, a red and a white. Amazing. Okay, I almost had a baby right there. Shout out to Vino Volo. Oh, big shout out. Yeah, then it goes further. So I sit down and places packed. On my on my one side, there's a man there who's, you know, you can tell, like shoving as much alcohol as he can before he gets his flight. And I could tell that he wanted to engage. Not because it was me, you would have engaged with a monkey. Like, you know, when they get and they just want to talk. Yeah, yeah. And they're drinking and they want to talk. And I was not interested. I talk for a living, so I was not interested. And there's two gorgeous African-American, well, black ladies, I don't know where they were from. They've spoken English, one there and one there. They don't know each other, right? And we're all mining on this beeswax. So when I ordered a non-alcoholic wine, this guy's literally like we're on top of each other. I don't want to draw attention because I'm like, that's gonna be his end, right? He's gonna be like, oh, non-alcoholic wine. Like, right? And I'm like, oh shit, I don't want to. So I'm pointing to the menu to the guy. I'm like, I have that. So that guy comes back and he had not invented the battery. Nice waiter. That means not very smart. Didn't end the wheel. Now he hasn't invented the battery, or or we say in French, he hasn't invented buttons with four holes in it, right? So comes back, he's like, We're out of the battery. He's like, we're out of the Ginzin non-alcoholic souvenir blow. Like, there we go.

unknown 14:57

Fuck.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

I was like, well, I wanted the red anyway. It's like, oh, we have the Gin Zen non-alcoholic, like red blend. I was like, that's great. Like he's announcing it. I don't care. The world can know, but I don't want this guy to start talking to me. Yes. And just when he sees his hook, he's about to engage. I'm like, uh one of the women, the one far away, she's like, Oh, excuse me, wait, don't go with that bottle. What is this? And calls it over. And I look at her, I was like, it's not alcoholic. Because I was like, she's gonna be like, oh, she's like, Yeah, I know, that's why I want to see it. I was like, Are you kidding? You're interested. It's like, yeah. We start talking. Like now we're talking over over that poor woman who turns out she's Jamaican but from the United States, right? Gorgeous. They're so beautiful, these two women. Anyway, uh, just because I look like a ragus and my jeans and stuff. But so we she's like, wait, you sound like you know you're non-alcoholic wine. She's she's from California. She starts asking me all these brands, and she's like writing them down. And I feel bad because I'm talking over this poor woman next to me, like kind of right. Yeah. And I kept touching her. It's like, I'm so sorry, I'm talking over you. She's like, oh no, I'm just taking notes. So she's taking notes of all the wine. So next thing we know, we all have a full-blown and they I don't think they were teethlers, right? But they were dabbling and not drinking over to right. So for the next half hour, correct. For the next half hour with two complete strangers who also did not know each other, women, they were obviously business women, the way they were dressed, and the way they the things they were saying, they're obviously business people, right? Um, super interesting in the non-alcoholic beverage and wanting to know more about you know brands and where they were made, and they were asking me all these questions. It was amazing. So then this poor guy, you could tell he wanted to get in, and we were not letting him in. So my my key my salad comes in and he's like, Well, it looks fresh. Like he's like, it looks like but my point, I was like, so when I stopped drinking, I thought I was alone on my island. Yeah. And now that, like, when you step out in the world and you're like, fuck it, I own this.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

All these people are like coming out of the woodwork wanting to drink non-alcoholic beverages. I mean, I don't want to be the one to tell you this, but we're not that special. Oh, hell no. We just have a lot, we just have so many, many people, and you know, that was for me the fuel behind um this podcast was there's there are a lot of people who are having these experiences right now. But they're more quiet than we are. And they're a a little more quiet about it. And and giving, you know, I have a number of friends who have said to me, I'm so glad I don't have the I don't have the voice. I don't, I don't have the the ability to speak out about things like this, but you do, and it's so helpful and it's so inspiring. And and um, you know, actually, we hope we're making you laugh while we're doing it, but it's um it is so true. And having met all of these different women in the business of alcohol free space, it is, and again, when we get to having guests in the second half of the season, I'm really looking forward to shining a light on the difficulty of the business and and you know, the rules and regulations around it. And and it it's not easy for them to break into a lot of places, but it is but it is happening, and then there is just some really, really big voids that where I'm like, how is alcohol-free, uh, are alcohol-free options not available? Great to hear about Vinovolo because because airports for me, and I know airports for a lot of people are triggers. Yes. Because why did this happen? Why, why do we live in a world where when you walk into an airport, it's it's time to drink.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I think it's because I've if my opinion is because A, you're bored, right? You're waiting for your flight. And B, you get it's like there's no time at an airport, like time is finally shut down, right? It can be any time of the day.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

That's true, right? So Which will explain why when you walk by a bar and someone's having a dirty martini and it's nine o'clock in the morning. I've got to be action in it.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yes. Oh, I've done that in Italy. I've had wine at nine in the morning because I remember we were flying back to the States to New York, and there was a wine bar, and I was like, fuck that, I'm on vacation plus. Like at home, it's like at home, it's two o'clock. I'm drinking already, right? And that's I think that's the airport mentality. Yes, and they're also a way, oftentimes, especially business travelers. So if you're traveling for fun, you're on vacation. So that's your excuse. If you're a business traveler while you're tired and you're away from your family's eyes, right? Like there's no eyes on you. You can just like, and what I've noticed lots of different explanations, and what I've noticed in airports, and that's what I told Brooks, and I had noticed that when I was on the sauce too, by the way, is you'll see the the kind of drinker at airport more than in normal bars that chug it. Yes, like they're chugging it, like like I'm trying to put as much as I can.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Like the lady that I was telling you about a couple of episodes of the airplane. I mean, she was doing two tequilas at a time. But they wouldn't do that in a normal bar.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

No, they would drink one and then drink another one. So I don't know if it's like the spatial time relation, is it's weird. But people get wasted.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

People get so wasted. And here's the the other thing that you just made me think about is it's that it's that mindset, yes. When you think uh what whatever reason you're in an airport, but most of the time people are traveling in an airport because they're going on vacation, and that and there is the correlation. You're like, fuck it, I'm on vacation, I'm gonna drink. And it's it's it's breaking that thought, that connection, right? The two things are intrinsically linked in our minds because of how society has branded vacation as being this thing where you let your hair down and you um relax. Meanwhile, yes, we've discussed many times that alcohol can take the edge off you and it can make you feel a little relaxed for a few seconds, but what it steals you of from you for the rest of the vacation is crazy. And for me, the big void that I still see, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen, and I have traveled on every single airline available. Right. I have not seen one airline yet offering non-alcoholic wine.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

So annoying.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Not one, so annoying. Well, they should delta united all of you.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

And by the way, and then they complain, they're like, don't bring you on alcohol because they're complaining, all these people getting wasted on the flight. Yeah, right. They could slip that they could cut them off and give them a fucking non-alcoholic wine beverage.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Like, you know what I'm saying? So and I remember So when you were giving me a hard time about drinking Diet Coke, like that's my option on a on an airline. Which sucks. You know, there isn't an option. I mean, I don't want to drink orange juice and I don't want, you know. I want to have a beverage. I can't believe that. And that's all the only option to you.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

And especially like I associate drinking wine so much with winding down, like and drinking non-alcoholic wine. Not that because I really, for a daily drinker like I was, the Annie Grays did a good job explaining because I could feel in my body how it did stress my body out. I would be calmer for 10 minutes. And after that, if I didn't keep drinking, it would you could resonate. Like right. So I understand that so much that I'm like, ugh. But like the action of drinking non-alcoholic wine, that ritual is really linked with a whole day of work. And you're right. On a plane, I'm like, fuck, man, I've busted my ass all day. Yeah. And I could, if I could have like a nice little something, like besides a bloody fucking susler.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

So again, to all of our listeners, same thing as when you're in restaurants. And by the way, on these women airlines, say to the flight attendant, do you have non-alcoholic zero-proof options? Because, and that's the other thing. When you say non-alcoholic, to people are like, I think juice. We've got apple juice. I'm like, I don't know. Do I look like a five-year-old kid? Right. I would like a zero-proof cocktail. Correct. Um, while I'm thinking of it, I really do have a funny, funny airline story that is not, I mean, I guess it's not alcohol related, but um, on the last episode, we were talking about religion, right? And you were talking about the Hasidic Jewish community that were hiding in in Canada. Uh-huh. And um, I have this funny story. So when I uh, you know, I was a lawyer there for a period of time, and I many years ago now, and I used to fly back and forth from London, I mean, every probably every month. Uh-huh. Like it was a really exhausting, exhausting transatlantic schedule. And almost all of the time, um I they would fly me business class. So you know, it was great. And I mean, yeah, here everything can be fucking connected to alcohol. I used to uh being in business class, uh, the alcohol's free. Oh, right. And it's great. And they give it to you in real class. So when I would fly back and forth for business, I was I was drinking. Meanwhile, the and I used to, it was this media firm that I worked for, and I was um in their council, and and this the CEO who's amazing, an amazing man, and he used to say, you know, I I would say to him, How come you're so fresh when you get to New York? You're so fresh when you get to London. And he said to me, I remember thinking, well, that's weird. Um, he was like, Oh, because I never drink on the flight. So smart. So smart. He was like, I don't eat or drink on the flight. I eat before I get on the plane, and I don't drink on the plane. So he's not, but he also wasn't of the socioeconomic bracket where he's excited about the free booze and food. Right, right, right, right, right, right. He's like the CEO. So he's like, right, I eat my dinner and I get on the plane and I go to sleep. And that's how I arrive, ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

As much as I used to joke that my favorite sport in the world, besides going to the hairdresser, was drinking on a plane. That's my favorite sport.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

It was my favorite sport. And you also get super drunk super fast.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

But the thing is, but the thing is that feeling, and I was thinking about that yesterday because I had to land at like 11 o'clock at night. And although it was sleepy, I didn't feel gross. Yes. And I remember like when I traveled, like that bloatiness you feel from having, you know, because that's you're blaming the flight, but it's the flight alcohol colour. And I would have, you know, a drink on the first segment of the flight, a drink in the Delta Lounge, a drink in the other. So I wasn't wasted because it was, but I was drinking the whole way and it almost accumulates in your tissue.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Listen, have you? I always say, have you, if you look at it.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

By the way, people smell, now I smell them on the plane.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

If you look at a bottle of water that you break on, like look at what the bottle of water looks like or a bag of chips, what it looks like afterwards. Everything is sucked out of it. Yes. So if you're adding alcohol in on top of that, anyway. My my um funny airline story is one of these trips, I had they I had to go back early or late or something. Anyway, there wasn't a business class seat. Okay. And they said, so sorry, but we need you back, and you've got to just fly coach.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

That's hard when you're used to business.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

When you're used to business, it was fucking hard. And I was like, and I was a spoiled brat. I was in my 20s. No, but it's hard when you get used to it. No, I was in my 30s. Yes, it was early 30s, and I was I was so used to it. I was so used to all the luxury that comes with business class line. Anyway, this time I am on, I'm in coach, and I get back, and and uh so I'm sitting in a line of of a family, and um look, I get back to New York, and one of my friends says to me, uh, how was your flight? Right. And I said, It sucked, it sucked ass. Because first of all, I got downgraded to coach because I had to fly on a different middle seat. And I was I was not on a middle seat, but I was in the middle of the airplane. And I said, and I was sat next to an entire family of Amish people. What? My friend, my neighbor friend, first of all, was Wait, they're allowed to fly. I was like, they're so much more than that. Go back to my massive gap in my education of other cultures.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

I was like, Amish people are not allowed to take the brain.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Until my friend gets to the bottom of this conundrum. She was like, they were what? The Amish people? And I was like, it was an entire Amish family. And I said, let me tell you, they're sitting there and they've got, you know, their long curly hair and shaking on the seat in front of the backboard. And she was like, um, okay, so those are his biggest. You mean acidic dudes? And I'm like, wrong sex, baby. Well, anyway, I couldn't sleep because of all that. She was like, She's like, Amish people don't even use fucking hair. No, they can't. They can't even use it. They don't even use they can't even go to New York. They were non-transatlantic flying from London, New York. Um, that's so good. I thought that was so funny. And yeah, yeah, ridiculous. But again, big, big gaps in my education. The nuns didn't tell us about anything. They didn't tell us about my god. They keep using it. They didn't tell us about the Amish people, didn't tell us about anything. Um, but back to the travel thing, because actually, when this episode airs, it's spring break. Right. And I will be on spring break. That's right. Um, which by the way, that's the one of those American things that we don't have that term. First of all, I don't even think we had spring break. We have Easter break, right? Okay. You get that week off for Easter in in Ireland, and then you have summer holiday, summer vacation. So spring break. I mean, the the mind-blowing thing for me when I learned about traditional college spring break and seeing videos of what happens on spring break. That's embarrassing. I mean, and that is what is that feeling bad?

SPEAKER_01 29:11

I thought it was embarrassing. Yeah, when even when so I will say, I don't know now, but when I grew up, and when I was in college years or university was like late 80s, early 90s. Yes, and the French Canadian culture was so we would look at English Canadians and say, like, look at them, they can't hold the liquor. It was that spring break. They can or they can't. They go like crazy and they go like like sloppy. Yes. And we would pride ourselves of being big drinker, but I kept it together, right? So we would look at the spring break culture and be like, amateur. Yes. Right. So we all I always thought that was like yuck. Yeah. No, listen, we got wasted and we smoked pot and did all that, but we kept it together a little bit. Like we weren't burning our bras, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Some of those videos that I, you know, I don't see those things anymore, but I remember like going, okay, I need to understand spring break. And then I mean, I think at one point I watched a documentary about spring break. And you're like, what? But it's also it's rife with obviously alcohol, but sexual assault and all of the things that go wrong, and accidents and deaths, and and it's because you're going to uh vacation and therefore you're going to drink and get drunk. Right. Right? It's the correlation that's missing out. If you don't, and also um the the idea of for me, and this is now becoming into I'm I'm going on my second spring break with my family, alcohol free. And you know, the the first time I did our spring break vacation. So we go to Turks and Caicos every year. And I am it is it is my favorite, uh it's all of ours, the four of us, Andrew, me, and the kids. It's our favorite uh nine days of the year. I can imagine because it is completely uh it it there's no I'm not making decisions, right? The only decisions I make are what which of the restaurants in the resort we're going to dinner. And there's nobody else to entertain. I mean, to the point that some of my friends have been really offended because they're like, you go to the same place every year. And I'm like, yes. And and one year one of my friends is like, well, we should come too. And I'm like, yeah, no, I am so sorry. This is just the period of time that Andrew and I and the kids get alone together. Right. It is, and we we're not like sitting around together. No, no, no, but you don't want to entertain another. And we go to an all-inclusive resort. Right. And and the idea of all inclusive is no decisions. So was, but it's also drink as much as you want. Oh, on that front, right. You know, because and that's why people, a lot of people are motivated.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Hey, you just thought of something. Yes, you should call. Oh my god, Brooks would so do that. Like, he's good at that. You should do that. You call the GM of the place, yes, and you're like, I'm paying for all inclusing, but I don't drink. Here's our few brands of non-alcoholic wine that I like or whatever you like. Oh, I'm doing it, I'm doing it uh so many bottles a day on the five for me. There's no shame you're paying for that bloody service and you're not using it. Yes, absolutely. Give them the.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Can I tell you it's so true because when you check in, you fill out a sheet that says which kind of wines you want, which kind of can you want to do it?

SPEAKER_01 32:34

I want I will call you tomorrow so they have time to gather. And you even like if you're like, if you need to know where to source it, I'll send you websites. Yes. Okay. So they should have that shit ready for me. And you know what you might start is they might be like, huh, maybe we should just be able to do that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

And and listen, it's a lot cheaper, you know. I mean, but I mean, I guess this way they're getting the money and they're not serving me. So but that's not fair. Yeah, you can't. Right?

SPEAKER_01 33:02

So I would say, and I would say, like, because we have other options of resorts, we're not offered that, so I'm asking you to do it. That's what I would say. And I wouldn't sit on it. No, then I've got time to turn around.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

That's a good idea. Yeah, we're that's a good idea. And um, but as I started thinking about travel, vacation, and and its close association with alcohol, for for me, and and that was what that was a trigger moment. I can imagine when I arrived at the resort for the first time, and we've been going, Andrew and I have gone to Turks and Caicos since 2008. Right. Like we've been going for a really, really long time. It is our paradise, and we love it, and it's the one period of the year where we really get to switch off and be together. And um, I remember last year, the first time I went there, when you arrive at this resort, they give you a drink. Like it's literally on a tray. Welcome. They say welcome home, because we're constantly we work, we turn, return to the same place every year. And uh, they give you a cocktail and but they give the children non-alcoholic versions of it. So so I got that, but I I had to prepare myself. And and you and I have spoken with a number of our our alcohol-free friends who are new on the journey. There, there are moments where it's a little bit scary. Yes, you know you're gonna be uncomfortable. That was one for me because I did go there, and part of me being able to switch off was me going, and I'm going to drink every day. And I'm not gonna, and now it's a family vacation, so I wasn't out partying. No, it doesn't matter. But you were used to your cocktail. And the guy comes to you on the beach at 11 o'clock with a cocktail if you want it, and I would never say no. And and um now going back for the second time, I I've I always reference how you get to do everything for the first time in your first year of sobriety, in your first year on the journey, and that was my first spring break, and it was I had psyched myself up for it to be harder than it was. Right. Once I was there and I didn't have uh other alcohol free opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

See, but imagine how much more comfortable you would be.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Yeah, but what they do have is um uh, you know, they're they're all about cocktails, right? With fresh juice, but that doesn't do it for you. But it doesn't do it for you. But I I went I was okay for drink a variety of those things just without the booze in it, um, which they make lots of because it's a family resort. Right. But I the the thing that I realized that I gained uh when you when you're thinking about going on holiday and the joy of drinking that you have associated with uh vacation and holidaying for so long is is the fear of I'm not gonna have fun or I'm missing, I'm missing out.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

And what I experience is oh it it is and it's not it's not because you're gonna start drinking again and it doesn't mean that you it's like you've had made those associations for a really long time and your brains and their physical neurotransmitters, those pathways are there, and it's hard. It's like you put the best word, it's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yes, yes, it's uncomfortable, and you have to um this is a question we get asked all the time on social media and on the podcast website is what do you do instead? And like what are what are the tips? This is a brilliant one that you've just given me, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:26

And for and for it and start to interrupt you, and because also because I you know I've said before I'm an Ethanist, right? I don't like pain. Yes, and so you put it very like that's the best word. You said it's uncomfortable. That's exactly what it is, right? So for me, travel, yes when I think, oh, I'm gonna go to Paris, I'm gonna go to that one even now, and I don't want to drink, I don't want to drink. But when I think of that travel, there's a there's a little ouch in my heart that I'm not gonna be drinking. Yeah, and the way that I've made this discomfort go away is bring you remember last year in Spain and in France, I brought I brought seven bottles of non-alcoholic wine in my my my bag, you know, I had to pay a little weight extra. And my mother was like, You're crazy, but you're right, because it took away the discomfort, yes, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

And and but you still and it's a practical um support system right for you, right? And for me, some of the other things that I have gained since quitting alcohol is I I am a creature of habits. Same. Like if you mess with my fucking routine, right? It really, if you mess with my sleep, if you mess with the down, which the irony of me saying that out loud when all I did for to myself was suck my routine up all that time by drinking and being hung over and being tired. It's like what they these were the things that were making me mad at myself and making me unhappy. So now I look back and go, oh, nothing is messing with my routine. And so now, this last um uh last year, my first alcohol-free spring break, I I I developed these new routines, these new rituals of walking on the beach at sunrise. So when you'd say that playing, you know, go we would then I would get up super early, go out on the beach, and I, you know, bit of a workaholic, so I I always do some kind of work. Yeah, but you like it. Because my creativity, I don't turn it off, right? And I'm I'm always thinking about the next project and da-da-da. But but then we would all have breakfast together. The four of us have breakfast together, we all get up at different times, and I mean we're having breakfast together at eight o'clock. Right. And then Andrew and I had a new routine of we played tennis together every morning while the kids went off and met their friends or went on a boat ride or whatever it was. And so all of those things for me now, those were the things that I was looking forward to.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

That's a really good point because it ties in and it's very good what you're saying. Because I remember originally when I quit drinking, it frees up a lot of time. Yes, and that scared me. I was like, what am I gonna do? And you're right, before I knew it, this time was being filled with really cool stuff. I couldn't even name it. I don't even know what I'm filling it with, but I don't know, not enough time to do all kinds of stuff. But at first, I'm sorry, we found time to start a pond. Right, but at first, you're right, like that freeing of the time was actually something that added to the anxiety of quitting drinking because it's a little dumb thing.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

There's a there's two sides to the pink.

SPEAKER_01 39:32

At the beginning, you're like, whoa, what am I gonna do now? Right, I'm not gonna be sluggish. I'm not like, you know, like it would take you, like, you know, or I would plan ahead my drinking. Like, let's say you're like, oh, Thursday, I have a dinner at so-and-so, and you know it's gonna be like pretty boozy. Well, Friday, you're not gonna have an eight o'clock, like, fuck, fuck the gym. You're not gonna have an eight o'clock call. I would have been up, but I'm saying, like, you're not, like, you're not gonna be your best self, right? No. So, and at first it was that real feel of fear of like, okay, so what am I gonna do now? Yeah. And it feels like that's not a problem. But it it is it is something to let people know that are starting on that journey, that it's a real fear when you find yourself with all this time underneath.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

It is, it is, and here's another thing. So I had a meeting with um uh it was a business meeting in in New York a couple of weeks ago, and the woman that I was meeting, uh, she turned up to the meeting and I know her really well. And she was like, Ugh, I feel rough. And I was like, Oh my god, are you okay? And she said, Yeah, you know, I I haven't been drinking a lot. Um, and she works in the theater and the theater industry, and she's like, we ended up going to a showcase last night, and then there was a party afterwards, and she said, I didn't, I know I'm not used to this anymore. But like, she was like, I was out to three o'clock in the morning. Ouch! And our meeting was at lunchtime, so like you know, she had the whole day, but she had just come from a workout and she was like, I made myself go, and she was like, It sucked so bad, and she was like, I couldn't lift the weight, I couldn't even think about doing party. But she was like, I made myself go and I forced myself go. Right. And I said to her, these are the conversations that lead to you deciding to pull the plug on just saying, I don't want to fucking do this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Another thing, too, and I'm not proud Sid, but I'll come out and say it, right? So, and I'm sure people are gonna judge me because I'm skinny and stuff, but doesn't matter. Like, I always was like not anymore, but when I was drinking, I would watch calories because I was like, Yeah, I don't want to gain weight because I drank on top of food. So, what would I do? And if I drank too much, and I would just restrict what I eat to even it out, yeah. And then you're not super healthy. And and by the way, I would always balloon up and down, not a lot. I'm not I'm small, but like five less, five more. And what I've found in the last year and a half, talking of freeing time and freeing habits, is all of a sudden my concern is to make sure I eat enough. Yes, right? Make sure I'm like, oh, I didn't eat enough, like I need to eat more, make sure that I need enough protein, make sure, and now I have like if if I gain weight, I don't care because I'm like, that's because I gain muscle. Or because I need like, you know, it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Well, because of the this flip and nose completely different. And I say this to women all of the time. I say it to myself because I, uh, you and I had this and have this in common too. We had, you know, this real issue with body dysmorphia of looking at yourself in the mirror and going, I'm fat or I'm ugly or I'm freckly and hating yourself and that self-loathing, which I have completely and again, I'm not saying this is just because I quit drinking, but it did not hurt, but it did not hurt. I mean, the also, as I say, my 50s don't give a fuck. Right. Life that mindset.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

But we've we we combination we got into our 50s overnight, not overnight. Whereas I we quit drinking overnight, and that improvement has been so big, and and being able to, you know, everybody's body is how you feel in it.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Right. So it doesn't matter how number you weigh. Oh, you feel how you feel in your body. So that's probably why I don't feel like you feel like you need to put good things into your body. Yes. And and and you know, this woman that I was meeting, she said the same thing. She was like, I just, you know, here I am busting my ass because I know I have to go to the gym because I am trying to get healthier as I age. And and she's like, and then last night I drank, I don't even know how many cocktails, and it's so set me back. And it's and so I think as as you know, most of our listeners are women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s. Yes, like that's we've got to be able to do that. And I'm sure most of them did relate, and it is there. So many of us. Have just gotten to a stage in our lives where we're like, I don't want to feel like this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Or did you not? And I even one day a week, even one day a month. And I will like a lot of people won't admit it, but I'll admit it. Oftentimes I would force myself to work out to either sweat the boots. Sweat the boots out or sweat the calories. Yeah. Right. Whereas now, I'm I've always been an assiduous workout outer because I want to keep muscles and all that, right? Besides that, so I'm always gonna be like two, three times a week, max. Yeah. Okay. But I I will do it. But if I because I'm assiduous at it, if a morning I get up and I'm like, I'm sore, not that I don't drink. Yes, I'm sore and I don't feel like it.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

I'm not doing it because I I feel good and because you already know I'm not trying to get rid of anything. Yes. And also you know that you have um consistency. That was another word that someone who was interviewing me recently. I came up with that word, and I and I love that I've recognized the consistency that has entered my life when alcohol was removed. I don't miss tennis clinics, right? I don't miss my workout sessions, I don't miss sleep unless you know I'm traveling or there's something like the consistency, so it allows you that space on days where you're like, you know what, I'm not gonna work out today because my body is tired. And the other thing that it has given me as someone who has has yo-yoed with weight my whole life and had bulimia and all of those things, I mean, I I mindfully during my drinking days looked at what I ate to know how much I could drink. And of course, the drinking was a priority. Always a priority, but then the not eating meant the drink was going into my blood system twice as fast as I drunk twice as fast. How many times? And then I was so hungover the next day that I was eating triple the calories I would normally eat in order to try and make myself feel better. And it was just like, oh God, and then people ask me about I have lost weight, right? My weight has stabilized. And now a year and a half in, I'm I am at a what I consider a healthy, normal body weight for my body type and my height, right? I I am there. I know that it wasn't some diet, it wasn't some crazy thing. It it was the removal of alcohol, but the biggest part of that was the consistency back in my diet. Right. Because for me, binge drinking led to binge eating. Because when I was in a state of hangover on weekends, I would do the same thing that I would do with drink. I'm like, it's the weekend. I'm eating as much as I want, and I'm eating, and then I would and it because you're doing anything to eat to make your body feel better. Yeah, yeah. And no amount, you know, that's where the whole greasy spoon breakfast and then, you know, eating eating the burgers and fried food to make you feel better. It doesn't make you feel better. Nothing makes you feel better. Um, and so now the beauty that has come from me, who's had a tricky relationship with food since I was a teenager, is being able to say, I don't, I I get to eat what I want. I'm not somebody that's ever going to now sit down and gorge a pizza to just soak up alcohol and save my body. But when I want a fucking slice of pizza, I am eating it all. Oh my god, I've never freeze.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

I've never been so permissive about what I eat as I am now. Yeah. Because I'm not worried about, right, I'm not worried about, well, this is adding to all the calories I just drank. You know what I'm saying? And one thing, and I don't know if it does that to everybody that quits drinking, but for me, and I'm sure there's parts of it is wisdom from age, but it happened too fast to change to just be that. Like literally over not overnight, but damn close. Yeah, is that fucking self-hatred, like that looking at yourself, like picking at and just like, yeah, yes, is gone. I see what I see, like the other day, like yesterday, I'm on the plane and I'm looking at my phone, and you know, if there's a sheen from the a glow from the window, your phone becomes a bloody mirror. Yes, and all I saw is that jiggly shit right here, right? Like the old 54, like jiggling, and I'm like, wow, right? And I looked at it, I was like, that is ugly, but not in it is what it is, like not in like yuck, like not a disdain. It's just like wow, I'm I I got there. Yes, that I got there, I got there. I now have jiggly skin because I'm 54, and that's what happens. Even if I slatter La Mer, my husband called us La Mered, all over my face, right? But it almost came with a sense of empathy.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

That skin and that face has been through a lot of respect, right? And it wasn't a hating it, it was just like, whoa, because sometimes I look at myself and think I'm 27 because of the delusion. Yes, right. And this was a moment of real like clarity. You're like, wow, I'm not 37. No, but it was no more.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

I see that too all the time, right? As somebody who is a performer, uh-huh, and I'm constantly having to look a certain way and look at myself before I go on stage and da da da da.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Videos of yourself constantly.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

And and constantly, and other people taking videos of me, and I'm like, well, that was not a great angle that you shot, you know. Famously, people, you have to have a skill to shoot singers. Yeah, and you can because facial expressions that we contort our bodies and faces into to get notes out is not pretty. And if a photographer shoots you at the wrong moments, I look like freaking Quasimoto. I'm like, what the hell? Why did you shoot me from that angle while I'm trying to hit that note? It's like so terrible. But but here's a couple of things that I and and again, different women think about things differently. We all have a different view of ourselves. And I I had a lot, a lot of self-loathing that came from internally, but also came from society of being called freckle face and and you know, carrot top and all of those things to get to a place where I'm absolutely now able to look at myself in the mirror and love myself and consider myself to be a good, healthy, beautiful person. Right. And and and it's and it's the the joy and security of being able to say that to yourself. That being said, there are many fucking factors at play here which can mess with that. One of them is when you have your phone and suddenly it turns to to um the the the the the back, the front camera, but then you see yourself and you're holding that angle and you're like, Jesus!

SPEAKER_01 50:47

And all you see is that turkey neck. It's pretty, it's a lot. That was a litmus test. Is that I was like, wow, I've definitely reached out.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

Okay, but I also want to say that Halle Berry doesn't look good from that angle. That's what I'm saying. Nobody doesn't know. No, nobody's doing it. But the other thing that's a big, big part of how you look when you're in any scenario is lighting. Do you know? I can look, I have two sets of lights in my bathroom, in my in our bathroom. It's there's upper lighting, like that that's slightly behind you. And then I have, I realize that I've just got bad lighting over my medicine cabinet. Okay. And when I turn those on, I look nothing can fix you. Nothing. Right. And I'm like, and I and I realized the other day when those lights weren't on, right? And the lights behind me were on. I'm like, oh my God, I look great. Look at this. But when those lights are on, it accentuates everything down all the lighting and all the shadows. And I'm like, okay, it's the lighting, it's not me.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

But see, I'm such a masochist that I have the same light in my bathroom, and that's the one I turn on to examine myself. Because I'm like, I need to see it. I need to see it. I need to, I need to face it, right? But we are both in a lot of hotel. But the difference is like, you, I just, for me, anyways, that's self-hatred. It's just God. And I know like it's very gen Z to be love yourself, and we find them so annoying. I do, right? But there's a thing about at least loving yourself. If you if you're just spreading it to everybody, that's annoying. But if you love yourself and keep it to yourself, it's how you feel it makes you a much more um workable person in the universe. You contribute more because you're not so preoccupied with hating yourself. Because once you like yourself, by the way, then you don't think about yourself that much. That's the whole thing. When you hate yourself, that's all you, anyways.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

And when you look in the mirror, you can't make it. When you hate yourself, that's all you think about is yourself.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

But when you like yourself, you move on and move on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

And you know, another thing that obviously you uh have not experienced, but one of the things for me was how I was as a mother. And you know, I consider I consider being a mother the most important thing in my life. I brought these human beings into the world and I am 100% responsible for everything about them, their well-being until they're grown adults and ready to go out in the world. And and it is also my favorite thing in the world. Like if you took everything else away from me and I still got to be a mother, I would feel complete and whole. And I and I and I love it. I love it so much. And then when I now I'm able to look back and go, yes, those were mistakes, but I remember the days when I had a hangover and I knew I wasn't being the best mother. Right. Those were the days I hated myself so much. So, so much. And I remember one day, again, right towards the end of my drinking, right before I started my 75 hard, where I remember waking up and knowing that I was supposed to be that I was and I did do whatever it was I needed to do. And now I don't even remember what it was. I did the stuff. But you know what I remember? I remember crying in my bedroom with disgust at myself for me not being in top form today. Me not being in top form.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

And see, like we were saying while you're hating yourself, you are just thinking about yourself. You're not available for your kids. But when you like yourself or love yourself, yeah, you're you're you move on, right? You're not gonna sit there and love yourself in your bed for 20 minutes, right? And by the way, I want to say, I'm gonna make sure that Mo, my dog, my dog, does not listen to this podcast because you said I was not listening to it. Because you just said I was not a mother and Mo.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

You were a mother to Mo.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Okay, because Mo takes that shit very personally. So Mo, she didn't she didn't mean it this way. You are a child. Oh, hell yes. Okay, okay, okay in so many ways. He's so happy that I'm better and like fully. There were a couple of hikes where I was like, wait, which way are we going?

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Wait, Mo, you tell me which way to go.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Oh my god, we got lost a couple of times when I was not feeling my best. So uh, but no, I know what you mean. And and it's true, like when you self-hate, you're not there for anybody else. No, right? No. So it's very freeing. And I called definitely do that for me, to give it up.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Yeah, and the and the wellness thing to circle back to um the holiday time vacation vacations, is we go on vacations to feel good, right? Come back exhausted, and to and to have these great experiences. And what I realized in my own journey from away from alcohol was how those experiences of going on vacation were being muted by alcohol, were we're stealing days. You're you know, you're gonna like I I remember thinking, I remember thinking on a beach in Turks and Turks and Caicos going, I I am in paradise and I have made myself sick in paradise. That sucks.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Or coming back home and needing a holiday because you're so exhausted from like just drinking all the time, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah, no, and so you know, though the the takeaways from the travel and the vacation, um, I mean, I am definitely contacting the resort and telling them to get me. Oh, 100%. And then I think, you know, could more of us talking about asking for non-alcoholic options and zero-proof options. Um, I'm definitely gonna, every time on a plane now, I'm gonna say something.

SPEAKER_01 56:28

You're right. I'm gonna do that too. And it's funny. So that makes me think of what I told you earlier today. So when I came home uh this morning, because I flew late last night, Brooks was like, hey, you should have seen that on the local news today. Uh right, it was saying that restaurants are are struggling and having a lot of loss of revenues because people aren't drinking as much, right? So I said to Brooks, fuck, I'm so happy they're saying that. So that maybe it'll make more restaurants like Left Bank, shut out Left Bank to carry non-alcoholic wine. Left banks in Western Vermont, they do and good ones, right? Oh good. And then the same couple of hours later, Brooks All Proud comes in the kitchen. He's like, hey, I'm like, yes. He's like, there's a study that that it's an old study, but they they verified it and now it's back out. And people that drink one glass of wine a day live 25% longer.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

Oh, so God didn't debunk so many times.

SPEAKER_01 57:25

I told them I was like, it was debunked so many times because you know, they they realized that the people that were drinking the wine were higher education, they were eating organic food, they were working out, they were, you know, they were doing a lot of things. They were in healthy relationships. Right. And they're comparing these people to the binge drinking, right? And they were not obese and they're like obviously, right? So they were just their lifestyle was a contraindication to the poison they were putting in their body. But I told Brooks, I was like, this study is so old, it's been debunked so many times. I was like, how interesting that they're putting it out today, the same day that you're telling me on the local news, they're saying restaurants are struggling because people are drinking less. Yeah, it's a knee-jerk reaction of the alcohol lobby in our country. And I think vacation, obviously, they didn't sit around a table and say, hey, how can we like sell more alcohol? Let's link it to vacation. I don't think that. But it, you know, on vacation resorts and things like that, they started seeing the revenues they get from alcohol. So it's easy to link the two posters, yes, uh, you know, publicity. And it's been marketed in our minds to correlate being on the holiday with getting wasted. Yeah. And there's a reason for it. It wasn't a mistake. It's not like people made this horrible mistake to someone's making money out of this association. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

Okay, and there's no denying it. There is no denying that the lobbying to uh support big alcohol is very and is getting stronger because now they're losing money. Yeah, and look, uh I was speaking to um I think oh, it was Hannah, the the uh Hannah Delaney from Boisson about this. It's like we're not saying, and we're not saying this either. We're not saying the world has to be alcohol-free. No, we're just saying give me my option too. Right the option. Correct. And and and there's no question that every company who makes alcoholic beverages is paying attention to the fact that nobody's gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

George Clooney's coming out with one that did already.

SPEAKER_00 59:31

It's out. Oh, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Is it a tequila with no booze in it? I think the wine.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

And it's a beer. It's a beer, you're right. It's a beer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

I was like, come on, George.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Listen, there's there's so many people making this choice. I watched a fabulous interview the other day with um Zach Braff. Do you know the actor Zach? Yes, of course, yeah. From Scrubs and many, many, many other things. But he talked about, and and so I was like, that's me. Wait, he doesn't drink? That he doesn't drink. I did not know that. He doesn't drink, and he said, I wasn't um the the sick alcoholic. Right. I wasn't the person who was drinking on set and drinking in my dad. He's like, no, but I was a binge drinker, so I was doing no drinking, no drinking, and then focus, blah, blah, blah, and then drinking and drinking too much. And he said, uh feeling cracked. I just had to go through it, right? There was no shortcut to me either figuring out that I was this kind of drinker that once I started I couldn't stop. Right. Um, he said that's what it was for him. And the identifying of that, like identifying that that's who I am as a drinker. And when you've had enough experiences where you're sick or embarrassed or whatever it is that you've done because you drank too much, you get to a point in your life you're like, okay, I've learned, you know, I who knows how many lessons you have to experience in order to make the choice, but but identifying it, who you are as a drinker, yes, and then taking the action.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:01

And because the the difficult thing for drinkers that are my kind of drinker is because there's no being sick, yeah, there's no acting out, yeah. There's no, so you're just a constant, you're just a constant and you you think about it all the time, and you your consumption creeps up, right? Like I was at a bottle and a half, but I'd started at a bottle before that was two glasses a day. Like, so and um, and and I'm saying that because some people that drink daily but don't have major hangovers or not sick or no, they've never done something stupid, might dilute themselves like I did for a long time, and thinking I'm fine. Yes, you're still drinking a shit ton of poison. And when you quit, you think you're fine, but when you quit, and if you quit long enough, you're like, oh wow, I didn't know that I was anxious, I didn't know I was reactive, I didn't know I hated myself. Like all these things, I didn't think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

I did like until you do it, right? And and the other, um, what you just made me think of too, for me, in my excusing my my drinking habits for basically 30 years, I mean, it wasn't 30 years, drinking in my 20s and 30s. Oh, yeah. It's not that it wasn't it wasn't a it wasn't a problem. I didn't have anybody to answer to. I was, you know, and also I bounced back. Right. I bounced back from how to as you do when you're 20. You bounce back a hair and bitch. But in my 40s, when I when I and I've said this, my aunt said it so eloquently many years ago. She said, if you're if you've asked yourself the question, should I quit drinking or should I cut back? The answer is automatically yes. If you've answered, if you ask the question, the answer is never no. Right. No. It's like, no, I'm absolutely fine drinking this. For me, I was able to, because I have had such close exposure to real alcohol. So you are much better. I used to look and go, well, I'm not that. Correct. Which means I don't have a problem. And I think so many of us have done that. It's like, absolutely. I've never lost a job. I've never forgotten to pick up my kids. Nobody's ever done crash my car. I've never done, you know, so you think I've never done any of those things, which means I am I am fine. I'm fine. But when you actually take the society out of it or the comparison to others out of it and look at yourself, which is what I did when I started 75 Heart. Right. I looked at myself and I thought, okay, I'm shit sick of hangovers being this bad. Right. And I need to reset my body.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:31

And also, like for for me, um, one of the things is at some point I was like, huh, the tail's wagging the dog here, right? Like, you know, no sick, no major. I had hangovers sometimes, but not often. Yeah. But you know, you're, you know, when you do have a hangover, you feel off and you're like, oh man, I'm not drinking today. And you say that at eight o'clock and at noon you're having a mimosa, right? Yes. So it's like, okay, who's wagging who in this scenario? It wasn't me, right? So no, and I didn't like that feeling too too much either. So like you said, you need to, when you think about alcohol, that should be your red flag. Yeah. When you're thinking about it, that should be your red flag. And then identified where you fall.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:13

Yeah. Do you want to do something about it or not? Or not. Exactly. Exactly. And that that is a big realization that a lot of people are now coming to. Right. Uh, that we just weren't, we weren't thinking about it before.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

And I think also like the dog, the the tail wagging the dog thing. I think a lot of us are realizing, huh? Yeah. I drink and it's not always my decision. Yes. I just do. Yeah. Because either my body wants it or my brain needs it. Or I'm on autopilot. I'm on autopilot because it says, you know, you're because it's Friday at five o'clock. That's right. Guess what happened? That's right, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:48

So it's just and believe you me, I lived in that world for so long.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

And like you said earlier, and I like that. We're not prophesizing, we're not thinking people should quit drinking. People can do what the bloody hell they want, as far as I'm concerned. But we there's a lot of people like us that like the ritual and like the taste, and we would like to have offerings. Yes. Because it shouldn't be that complicated.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

Listen, and for every single person, and we've had plenty of them in the last 13 episodes who have reached out to say, you made me think about it. You made me think about wanting to do it. Or you tipped me over the edge. You inspire you ladies talking about it have inspired me to do it. That I mean, you know, that and making one of my friends the other day was like, I almost had to pull my car over because I thought it was gonna pee my pants. Um you know, but um well, we're gonna wrap it up for today. Uh we're we're going on vacation. I'm going on vacation. Um sorry. Uh but for everyone out there who's listening, we are so grateful. We're building this community one episode at a time. And um it's because you're listening that we keep going and and uh thank you for listening. Keep listening, share, um, send us your comments and questions because we really do get we get such great insight from from you and your questions about how we have handled things. Um and uh yeah, you have your call to action, which is whenever you're going out to dinner and you're in a restaurant, either prepare to bring your own stuff or request that they carry your favorite brand, especially if it's your local, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

Absolutely, and by the way, it's not a favor, you're paying for the stuff and good money because as we know, non-alcoholic beverages, especially beers and wines, yes, cost a little bit more money because you have an extra step to do to make it well, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

Yeah, so you're not asking for charity. No, no, absolutely. And um, another shout out to raising the bar, the zero-proof cocktail kit, which you can get every week. Um, no, every month. Every month. Every month. It would be a lot every week, yes. But um, thank you, thank you for listening. I am Maxine, I'm happy alcohol free.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

I'm Isabel, I'm happy as fuck, and enjoy the spring break. Don't burn your bra, it's not worth it. And try to get NA beer as much as you can. Yeah, yeah, and we will see you on the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

Thank you for listening. Bye. I wanna be happy, just wanna be happy. I wanna be happy and happy and now that I'm finally free.