The Real Hunt: John Hogie’s Raw Success and Failure Stories | John Hogie | Game Plan Ep. 026

Welcome back to Game Plan the Pod! In this episode, Davis Cole and Juico chat with John Hogie, hunter and creator of the outdoor channel Roam and Harvest. John opens up about his start in hunting, the ups and downs of making authentic content, and stories from epic hunts—bow hunting elk, spearfishing in Florida, and tackling exotic species like axis deer in Hawaii. They also discuss the hunting community, managing permits, and conservation challenges. Plus, get a glimpse into John’s background in combat sports and how he balances passion with everyday life.

Check out Roam and Harvest for more adventures: https://www.youtube.com/c/RoamandHarvest

Chapters:
0:00:00 – Introduction & Guest Welcome: John Hogie
0:01:25 – Overcoming On-Camera Anxiety
0:05:30 – The Reality of Being a Content Creator
0:08:40 – Dealing with Trolls and Negative Feedback
0:12:00 – Starting Roam and Harvest: The Business Plan
0:14:15 – Early Hunting Experiences and What Sparked the Passion
0:18:30 – The Challenge of Filming While Hunting
0:22:10 – Recent Hunts: Turkey Hunting & Spearfishing
0:25:30 – The Physical Side of Bow Hunting
0:27:45 – Hunting Partnerships and Tag Management
0:30:50 – Draw Systems & How to Get Hunting Tags
0:34:20 – Hunting Exotic Species: Hawaii & Axis Deer
0:37:50 – Understanding Invasive Species Impact
0:41:10 – Favorite Hunting Locations & Ecosystem Issues
0:44:00 – Ice Fishing & Cold Weather Hunting Adventures
0:47:15 – John’s Combat Sports & Wrestling Background
0:50:40 – Educating Yourself: Guides and Outfitters
0:53:20 – Traditional Archery vs Compound Bows
0:57:10 – Turkey Hunting Techniques & Gear
1:00:25 – Hunting Ethics, Conservation & Wildlife Management

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of Game Plan the Podcast. I'm your host, Davis Cole, and joined as always by our producer Juice. Yo. Today's guest is a hunter and creator of the YouTube channel Rome and Harvest. Please welcome to the podcast, John Hoagie. Hi, everybody. Beautiful. Sick. Hell yeah. I get so much anxiety about the intro, and I do it, and I'm like, it's fine. We're good. Your credit, you're a photogenic guy. Oh, I was like watching your stuff, and I'm like, man, this guy, this guy knows how to be the center of attention on camera.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

It's so weird. I think like Daniel and I have talked about that too, where it's like, I'm glad we committed to doing this for three years because you like start putting stuff out and you're like, I feel like a fool, like putting myself out there on camera. Like especially if you fail at a hunt too, you're like, oh, I feel so bad. But it's uh committing to a like period of time, like I'm gonna do this. It uh has forced us to stick with it.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Well, I mean, and this this setup has changed from our original plans, and and it's funny hearing his side of it. So, like I said, 2022, I started making content, I started getting lights like this, and I'm house sitting for a buddy, and I'm like putting the lights in the garage to do an ADCC trials like recap video, okay, you know? And the anxiety I would get just like my own cell phone, not going live, not even for sure gonna publish it, but just like starting to practice talking with the lights and something recording was so nerve-wracking. Yeah, and then over the years I started to get more comfortable. By no means am I like completely comfortable with it. But then we started shooting this podcast stuff, and on our first one, we were just trying to drop a video of like, here's what we're doing, we're gonna start doing a podcast, yeah. And then it was like set up in here similar to how it is now, and then at the end of it, I had him sit in the chair and switch roles and take the mic and start talking, and it was just like it was awful.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

I was not prepared for that. I am, and still to this day, I am much more comfortable behind the camera rather than in front of it. So just sitting down, and like it's silly, like there's no reason to feel this way. It's a safe space, it's literally just us. Yeah, there's a bunch of cameras in your face and like some lighting and all that, you know. But yeah, I mean, we have it on our uh on the game plan Instagram, it's terrifying for no reason.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

It's so silly, it's so dumb. It's so funny how our brains like perceive the threat. Because I feel like when I'm in like a nervous from a camera, it's like the same thing as like I'm fearing for my life. Yeah, there's no actual threat, so it's like weird that our brain processes so much danger, but it's like just embarrassment completely. And then once you get over that, it's kind of freeing, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:41

It is, and especially once you get some traction too, you're like, oh, people like what I'm doing, like people actually are interacting with it. It's like, oh, that's yeah it's cool.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Have you guys had like uh good comment sections on any of your videos?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Yeah, we get so our our YouTube is definitely where we get the most views, and like that's where we get the majority of people coming across our content. But Facebook is where we get the most interaction. Nice, um, positive and negative. Yeah, we get a lot of like death threats and angry messages on on Facebook. Yeah, there's a lot of anti-hunter. Anti-hunters love to like PETA type energy or something? No, just like uh, you know, we love hunting accidents. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Best of luck to you, like that type of comments and stuff like that. Yeah. Dude, do they want you to get dick chaneyed? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 3:32

Have you like gotten like like legitimate death threats?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Or just people like wanting you to die. Like we wish, like we wish it was you on the other side of that gun. Type like we've had some of those and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, dude, go get a hobby. Yeah, you're taking the time to watch someone else's content, get mad about it, and then like tell them that they should be dead. I'm like, thanks for the interaction. That probably appreciates the engagement. It legitimately does help, but it's so bad. I I went through the same thing uh when I was talking about some of my first videos. My first video format for short form that took off was like four basic judo throws, and I labeled one of them the wrong name for the takedown. Stupid. And then my execution was like that of a shitty jujitsu brown belt trying to do judo. Okay. So the judo community just like ripped me apart. Because that's like a stable international audience, and I probably in from their eyes looked terrible. But what was it? Do you remember? Well, I said Dayashi Hurai. No, yeah, Deashi for um Sase Sorikomiashi for like the mistake.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Isn't that like really similar?

unknown 4:39

Or not?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

I mean, it's because you're both like kind of foot sweepy, you're sticking your leg out to like hit the outside of the foot. But they are completely different, and it was just pure ignorance. Cool. But making the mistake, yeah, and that was kind of a lesson in content is that like either intentional or or unintentional mistakes end up getting you more engagement, and like we're in such an engagement world now that it's like that's kind of the way to be, you know. Yeah. I try to like plant little seeds now of like things that are maybe a little off just to see if someone will comment, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

That's good. I'll have to think about that. Like say something wrong intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

But the vulnerability thing is something that um it's such a weird feeling at the beginning, and then once you get some like positive and negative feedback, then I feel like you start getting like your content creator thick skin, and it's like cool, now I'm willing to put myself out there. It still is like an embarrassing thing, but I feel like the more you put out there, it's like, man, there's even already we've put so much out there, it's like whatever.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah, and it's it takes time too, because it like your first video you put out and you get 75 views, and 50 of them are family. Like, man, what am I what am I doing? Thanks, mom. Yeah, exactly. And then, but as you start putting more and more out there and you stay consistent with it, the algorithm seems like it awards that, and yeah, you start getting more and more interaction engagement.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

We got some time to kind of catch up a bit beforehand, but I don't know how much you know of what he puts out there, but his YouTube channel is Rome and Harvest. Sick. And who would you say your buddy's name is? Daniel. Daniel. So they they make hunting and fishing videos. Yeah, kind of outdoor outdoor videos.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

You want you want to give us a quick big uh breakdown for the people that don't know you and your and your stuff?

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Yeah, so Daniel and I started working together in tech uh like 11 years ago, and probably I think it's five years ago, we were hunting in New Zealand, and we were up on this mountain range. It's actually, if you're a Lord of the Rings fan, it's where they filmed Helm's Deep. Sick. It was pretty sick. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah. I'm the huge Lord of the Rings fan.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yeah, it was I'll show you pictures, it was unreal. Um, but we were up there, and at the time him and I were looking at buying some businesses or doing something outside of our corporate jobs, and we're like, man, what if and we we weren't having much success, we weren't getting much traction of finding a business that we liked. We're like, what if we just started a content company? Like, what if we started filming our hunts? Like we're dedicated this and uh we put together a business plan dedicated it. We were like, we're gonna commit to three years, like we're minimum of three years. If this all fails after three years, fine, but we're gonna make sure that we at least put the effort into it and kind of started building from there. And we try and film a year in advance. So we you know, we our first year, I think we only put out like 10 or 12 videos, and now we're trying to double that to get to two a month. So like 24 videos a month or 24 videos a year, which is challenging to get that much content.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, um, well, especially with what you're doing, that's not just like content sitting at your house. Yeah, you gotta get out in the world, you gotta be out there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah, so like it's tough because you have like the big elk hunts that everybody wants to watch, but that's like two episodes. So it's like, okay, how do you make up for more episodes without spending crazy amounts of money? Yeah. Um, so it's been kind of a fun channel to figure out you know the hunting side of it and getting out there and finding places to do content, and on the back side, the creative side of it of you know, creating these videos and kind of finding our yeah, what's your style? Our style, yeah, what's our look, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Yeah, I got a chance to watch quite a few of your videos this weekend. Oh, thank you. And I grew up on, I can't remember the like the outdoor channel, yeah, I guess. So I grew up on like hunting and all those guys, yeah. And what like Jim Shocky and those kind of guys, and it was cool because when I was watching yours, I was like, I imagine you guys had a similar background of like watching these kind of things. When did you do you remember your first hunting experience?

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yeah, my we hunted a little bit growing up, but it wasn't like a huge thing. Like my parents owned a piece of property in northern Minnesota, and it was like, you know, the family would all get together and go up and you know, hang out and go deer hunt, but it wasn't serious hunting, like it was just every going up to have fun. Um the kind of what turned it for me and like became something kind of a more important hobby for me was in 2018, I think it was. We were my dad and brother and I were trying to find an elk hunting trip to go on, and the guide who we really liked didn't have any rifle hunts, but he's like, You guys gotta come out and bow hunt. And we're like, we don't bow hunt, like we had these cheap like knockoff bows, and we're like, we don't bow hunt. He's like, go invest the time and the money and come out, and that hunt changed everything. Like being up in the mountains, we hit it just right with the um with the rut, and it was the mountains were it sounded like Jurassic Park being out there. My brother shot a big bull when we were sitting together, and it just kind of from that moment on, I was like, Oh, this is something I want to start doing.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

So he was able to get a bull with the bow on like the first time doing it.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Yeah, it was like day three. That's unheard of. Yeah, it was unheard of. Yeah. And it what pissed me off was that we were sitting there and it was because we were like, one of us is gonna shoot, the other one's gonna sit back. And he was sitting back, and the bull we were calling in was like hung up on the other side of this ridge, and a different bull ran in and ran up to where he was sitting at, and so he shot it, and I was like, you son of a bitch. Like that was supposed to be my hunt.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

So then after that, you just got yeah, super into everything outdoor. Yeah, dude. That's that's crazy because you do so many different things, and it looks like you I guess with the trying to get two episodes a month, like you're getting out there multiple times a month or something.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

It feels like it, yeah. And it's it's funny because like Daniel has told me he he one of his golf buddies had to come over to his house and he's like, Yeah, I'm still an amateur hunter. Like, you can come in and see it. And the guy walked into his trophy room and he's like, What are you talking about? You're an amateur, and he's like, Well, I still feel like an amateur, and then you know, I still feel that way too. Like, we're not these you know, seasoned, grizzled people who have been doing it for decades and decades. We're just it kind of showing you know our growth through the sport. Yeah, there's a lot of like my elk hunting episode last year. I shot and missed one, and like that or two years ago than the one last year. I don't even take a shot.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

So, like yeah, it was in like the water or whatever, yeah. Right? Yeah, that one that one's not. I mean, I I I never successfully bow hunted when I was younger, but I was really into archery and was doing like uh archery competitions and sitting out hunting just never actually harvested anything. And then last year I started shooting arrows at the pigs, and I got two, but I never found them. One, they're they're they're just such tough animals. Like stick it in the head with an arrow and it just ran off like nothing. And it didn't even look like it penetrated that much, and then another one it was just a bad shot, and I found the arrow covered in blood, but no blood trail. And yeah, I mean, they're just so resilient that if you don't get a good clean shot on a pig, it it's pretty hard to find them. Yeah, but it's been fun getting back into it, and the same kind of thing. Like I grew up hunting, and I've put a few hunting videos out there, and it's like I'm in the middle ground. I've hunted a lot, I've hunted for my whole life, but like the the real hunters that I respect, it's like it's a completely different thing. It's like jujitsu or something, right? Like there's there's levels, yeah, there's levels, and then there's the guys at the top, and there's a whole nother scale for the guys at the top, you know. So I think about like the uh like the guides in Africa, where it's like just generational hunting knowledge for hundreds, thousands of years. Like those guys are like the real hunters, and yeah, we're just trying to figure out some of the whatever we can learn now, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Yeah, those guys who have been doing it for decades and decades have like just a different level of like comfort and knowledge out there with like how to move, how to treat the wind, how do you track animals?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Like, there's so much to it that it becomes second knowledge to them that you know I I haven't even and it's funny because if I'm like with a new hunter and I'm walking around, I'm like, man, you don't even know how to walk out here. Yeah, but I'm sure if I was with like a real hunter, they'd be like, dude, you have no idea how to walk without making tons of noise, you know. Man, that's wild. So what what's um what's like the most recent trip that you went on?

SPEAKER_02 12:49

So we went, I actually took my four-year-old son out turkey hunting just a couple days ago on Saturday. Nice, nice, which was fun. We shot one in like the first hour and a half, so it was a nice quick first hunt for him. Yeah, he did really well. He only scared away a couple deer. Um and then uh two weeks ago I was in Florida spearfishing. So underwater. Uh this was scuba. Oh, so I'm scuba scuba certified, not like apparently free diving. There's a whole different certification system. I haven't done any of that, so we just went scuba.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

How long have you been into scuba?

SPEAKER_02 13:21

I've been into scuba for a while. Like I have most of my own gear and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

But just for like doing dives, yeah, not spearfishing. Not spearfishing. Dude, tell me about spearfishing, scuba diving.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

That's crazy. I was thinking of the analogy as like going hiking in the mountains is cool. Going hiking with a bow is even better, and like chasing animals. Yeah, it's similar with scuba. Like scuba diving's fun, but when you can go down there and like going after fish, it's a whole different experience. And what were you fishing for? So we were looking for the so hogfish and grouper were not in season, but pretty much any like your snapper, drum, cobia, any of that stuff was in season. So just kind of it's one of those things you like go down and see what you find. And now, are you doing this on like oil rigs or so? We did it in um we did it on one wreck. So there was a wreck that was down at between 80 and 100 feet, went down to that, and I missed a huge cobia there, which is frustrating. First dive, like first five minutes, this huge cobia came in, and I was like, ha ha. Um, and when we got out, they're like, Do you know how lucky you are? Like, we dive for years down here without seeing a cobia. And I'm like, shit. It's so funny. Like, feel bad. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

It's so funny how those trips work out because I'm sure we've both been on plenty of hunts that you just don't get anything, and that happens all the time. That's like probably the majority of my hunting experiences. And then you have times where it's in the middle, but I've had so many of those weird ones where it's like we just showed up and the animal was there and we took it, and it happened faster than we kind of expected. And it's like kind of underwhelming sometimes, you know, it catches you almost off guard because you can get used to like hiking for days on end and getting absolutely nothing, and then sometimes just everything works out for you.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah, and it messes up your brain a little bit too because then on your on your next hunt where you're like four days into it and you've hardly seen anything, you're like, what is going on? Like, I I tagged out in 20 minutes like earlier in the year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Do you have like favorite now that you've like it seems like you've done a ton of turkey hunting, a little bit of elk hunting? I imagine there's like probably whitetail in there too. Yeah, I've seen a little bit of that. Do you have any favorites on like the hunting side?

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah, I mean, elk hunting, bow hunting, elk hunting is like second to none. Like we hunted, we did Ireland, and Daniel went to Italy Italy and Spain, and then we met up in Hungary as well last year, and like that's fun. Um, but like I don't I think every year of my life going forward, I will elk hunt in the in the mountains. It's just un like being out there in the mountains is so cool. And then with the elk screaming, and like it's such an active hunt where you're you're chasing them and you're calling to them, and it's such a cat and mouse game, and it it's so complicated that the it's just the most fun.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Yeah, I've never gotten to do it. I I look forward to it, and I actually like do a lot of training to get ready for that one day I can do an elk hunt because it's such a physical thing, right? So it's like even if you get one, where are you? And then now you gotta like pack this thing out from wherever you're at. And like sometimes maybe you got a side by side, not too far away. But I feel like the elk hunting is not like a type of hunting like white tail in a in a blind. You can just my grandpa, when he was very old, we could take him out to go do that. But I feel like elk hunting, you gotta be kind of fit for that, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Yeah, very fit. Like my dad has started going elk hunting with me, not hunting, just coming with because he's like, it gives me an excuse to get into shape every year because you're you're up in the mountains and you're hiking, you know, thousands of feet up and down, you're hiking seven to ten miles a day. Like it's it's intense.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

So, how many have you harvested a couple bulls now?

SPEAKER_02 17:06

No, I've none. That one that I really none. So my brother has shot two when I've been with him. Um, I shot that one two years ago uh in New Mexico and we never recovered it. Yeah, and then last year um we just had a really tough season. We called in one bull and it was too dark to take a shot. They called in a second bull and he never came out of the brush. And uh so I have one book for this fall in Wyoming and then another one booked after that in New Mexico for 2028.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Wait, so so I'm ignorant, right? Um, why is it so much more physical than other types of hunting? I can understand like being in a blind versus going out and like being more active, but is that basically like the primary reason?

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah, that's a big part of it. And like just where they live, like getting to them and like you're having to chase them, like going up and down the mountains, finding them. Uh, it's a lot more challenging. Like you there are elk hunting outfits where you can go sit in a blind, but for the most part, like archery elk hunting, you you have to get within 50 yards of it, and you're running up and down the mountains trying to chase them because they're not just static staying in one place, they're moving, chasing cows, and you're trying to run out and cut them off and move around. So it's just the terrain combined with you know how the animal moves makes it a lot more. That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, I mean that sounds dope. One of our first episodes was talking to William Tackett after he just went just as like a buddy on an elk hunting trip, and it's like they hit some point where they're talking like, man, even if we shot something here, it was such a hard hike to get even where they were at, and it was like a muddy mountain or hillside or something, and they were just like breaking their shoes trying to walk up with it. It was like flopping. Yeah. And like I yeah, I think the the easiest answer to your question is just like where they're at, because it's it's always almost always gonna be like the mountains, basically. Um, and then I can't think of any other animal that you can like that you're you're hunting for in such open country, really. Like something that that could be kind of close would be like the prong horn, but they're generally more in like grasslands. So you're just gonna be looking at like a massive area, but it's it's not as much like mountains, and you're just gonna be covering like a lot more ground. Okay. Whereas like the elk, they're in like mountainous and thick wooded stuff, yeah. And then like you gotta have a whole nother skill set of like the wind and then the calls too. Right. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

For for all of these hunts, you are having all of them documented, every single one of them.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Yeah, so what we uh we've been doing quite a bit was Daniel, where for our first season, Daniel and I, like one of us we'd flip a coin, you know, you're hunting first, I'm filming. Go, and one of us would film each other. And we've learned that when you're trying to do that, it's so difficult to like because if we're both, if we both have tags, we both want to hunt. And like you're burning up so much time doing that that we've started bringing people with to film for us.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

I was about to say, I'm like, Yeah, like I'm relatively fit. I think I can you could keep up with it. I think I can handle that part. You're hired. You might need to teach me how to walk. That's the thing you were saying.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I have it's funny looking back on him too, and like I've seen some some shots on some of your videos that like remind me of being in that same spot, yeah, where I'm like trying to follow my brother, but like I can't spook these animals, and I'm trying to like get a good clean shot of whatever he's doing, but like you're sneaking up behind someone, so you gotta like try to be quiet. That'll be different. Try to not shake too much, yeah. But it's it's it feels the same for me as like the the recording jujitsu. It's not that different. There's just a lot more stuff in your way. You're trying to look at the camera, but you gotta make sure you don't trip over like a stick on the ground or whatever. Trying to sound quiet.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

That sounds so fun.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah, I'll let you know when we yeah, that's super cool too. That you have someone that like I imagine he lives somewhere else, right? So you guys meet up on these trips.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah, that's so cool. We have a couple guys who will come with and video for us, and then yeah, Daniel lives in Hilton Head, South Carolina. So we're traveling quite a bit to go go on all of our hunts.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, I so how do you even the the uh permits, right? The tags for these out of state elk hunts, do you just have to like put your name in well in advance to get on a draw, or how do you secure these tags?

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, it's different state by state, and it's different by how much money you have. So like if you have a lot of money, you can go into like on the one extreme is um landowner tags. So you can go to like New Mexico and pay a landowner fifteen thousand dollars for a tag. Okay, and they'll give you one, and then you can go hunt. Um and then on the other side of it is the draw, and each state is different. So like New Mexico is draw only, so like everybody's name goes into a hat and they pull out 10 people, whereas other states. States have like a bonus point or a preference point. So every year that you don't get it, you get an extra point. And then as those accumulate, you know, they do it different ways, but like you're more likely to draw. So like some states you in good units you're putting in for a decade, 15 years before you ever draw a tag. Yeah. So it it kind of depends. We use a company called Hunt and Fool, and they I think they charge like five dollars a state and they do all of it for you. Nice. I tried doing it on my own. It's every state is different. Oh god. And it's terrible. It's a nightmare. So I happily pay you guys to go do that for you.

unknown 22:33

Man.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

I uh I'm I'm super jealous because you even got to go out to um what is it, Lanai? One of the Hawaiian islands. Yeah, went out to Wanai. You don't need a tag for that. Right. You need to show up. And that is something that's like a bucketless hunt for me. I've never even been to Hawaii, but the idea of hitting the combo of like a Hawaii trip plus getting to hunt sounds so sick.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

That was one of the most fun hunts. It's super hard, too. Like I heard Rogan talk about it on his podcast a bunch of times, and I was like, I wonder if it's actually that hard. Dude, they're so fast. It doesn't make sense. Like we I had one, it was a doe. I had already shot a buck earlier, and I had a doe at 55 yards. My guide's like, try and take a shot. It was out in the middle of the open. I was like, all right. Drew back and I shoot a 70-pound bow with a 125 grain tips. I was like, I shoot a fast arrow. And she had ducked and turned. We have it on camera. Like she had ducked and turnaround before the arrow got to her.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

It's like where I was hunting kind of growing up, like young kid through call it early 20s, uh, there was a lot of low fence access axis deer. Oh, cool. So like the one pretty much the first ranch I ever hunted on had fallow and axis on low fence in pretty substantial populations. And there I actually remember it being it felt easier. And then later on on a different ranch, when I was like a solid teenage hunter, like I was doing it multiple times a year, year over year, so I felt pretty in tune. But those axis deer were so much more challenging to hunt, even with a rifle compared to the whitetail deer, because they're in like a pack and they're all looking out for each other, and they just don't seem to stay. No. And I I loved the Axis deer hunting because of because of that challenge. Yeah. And I mean, we could get them within sight, but every time we'd find them, they'd move again and uh really enjoy eating them too because they're a little bigger than the whitetail, we get a little bit more off of them. I think it's so interesting on like the invasive species. Um like I actually don't understand this of how when these animals get out of their natural habitat, why like the rut disappears. I'm baffled by that little biology trick. Because what happens is like the feral pigs in Texas or the Axis deer, we talked about the rut for the elk hunting, right? And I think we've talked about the rut quite a bit, right? So it's mating season. So the North American elk, you know, the bulls, they're calling back to the cows, they're finding the trying to find the cows. And I imagine the the elk rut's probably pretty short, like white tail, where it's like maybe a couple of weeks per year, like the first two weeks of September typically. Okay, yeah, whereas white tailed is like a little bit after that, usually like uh uh somewhere around November for Texas. Um you mate then in the spring, you know, drop the fawns or whatever they are for for elk. But then something happens when you take like the Asian deer over to North America, it breaks that cycle. So then like not only are the females going into estrus at just random times throughout the year, but then like their annual antler shed isn't at the same time, right? Like all the white tail and elk in North America, they're gonna like grow their antlers through the summer and then knock them off sometime like early in the year, right? But if you come across the herd of the axis, you got an axis bull with his antlers, an access bull halfway growing, and an axis bull that just shed his antlers. So something about getting them out of their natural environment to do them through like biological clock. Yeah. And it's just so crazy because that's what leads to the overpopulation. And I think like the the axis in Hawaii seems like a problem.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah, there's I think it's different on each island, but there's companies now that like Maui Nui venison, they go out there and they they go out at night and just shoot a whole bunch of them and then are turning it into uh a product.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Um but yeah, depending on the island, they're one issues. One of them just offered like a new bounty or something too, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Yeah, I think I know like with the goats out there, which are invasive as well, they'll go out and with a helicopter and just take down the population. So it's disappointing if they're you know having to do that with axis because that meat is so good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Yeah, and I I don't think I've ever had that.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

I don't think I've ever had axes. Yeah, I don't think I have anymore. I'll look. Well, we'll how is it different from I don't know, like it doesn't it's not as gamey as whitetail, like it tastes a lot better. Um it's like slightly more tender. Yeah, the flavor of it's really good.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

It's still very lean, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you can see it. Like I've had them where we like just butchered one of each, and like side by side you can see it. Yeah, where it's like it almost looks like their muscles are like more popping, you know? And respect. Yeah, yeah. Identify with the jacked deer. Hell yeah. But you know, like it it's such a hard thing to communicate, like you know, we're talking about people that want to stand up for animal rights, and I'm kind of there with them, but I think there's just the misunderstanding between what that means and yeah, you know, when you have something like the the feral pigs in Texas, the Axis deer in Texas, or the Axis deer in in Hawaii, when you have these populations that are growing so much, it's affecting other animals too. Yeah, you know, so yes, it's awful that somebody has to go in a helicopter and shoot these goats out in Hawaii, but if you don't do that, there's going to be like kind of a snowball effect for the rest of the ecosystem. And yeah, it's hard to convince people that like there's a balance and certain things overpopulate.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah, it's not like it's the turn of the century where you have like wild ecosystems anymore, like humans have interacted so much and interjected so much that we have to play a part in controlling populations and you know ensuring that the ecosystem is sustainable.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

I was I was gonna say, why do um why d do species become invasive? Is it I imagine from what you said, I imagine it's because we have kind of come in and invasive means non-natural.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

So like uh access deer are from India, I believe. And they one of the they brought them over to Hawaii as like a gift, and then they just bread and bread and bread, and now since they're non-native, they're changing the ecosystem over there. So like invasive is um more of a term of like they just weren't originally there.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Right. But like think of what I said with the the mating cycle, right? Where now you could have this herd of access that in the past maybe it's just reproducing once a year. Now it's got different parts of the herd reproducing all year. And then the other they're in a different environment, yeah. Right. So then they could ultimately produce more. And then the other factor with that is depending on what animal and what new environment that it's like invasive to, maybe there's no predators, and that's usually what happens, right? Like Hawaii already doesn't have they don't have any large predators at all, right? So there's no mountain lions or wolves in Hawaii to eat these things. So you just keep yeah, it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Like when we were when I was just in Florida spear fishing, we went out for lion fish at one point because lionfish, I don't know if you've seen them, they're those are those big old crazy with like stripies, yeah, stripes, and they have uh they're venomous, so you can't touch them. But those are invasive as well, and they reproduce so much that they're like taking over the reef. So you don't need a permit, you don't need anything to kill the levels. You can just go down and kill as many of them as you can. Um what do you like? Can you eat that? Yeah, they're great. Oh we cut it up and made cevichis.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Oh my god, I gotta give me some of that. Yeah, that sounds awesome. You just have to be careful when you're filleting it so that you don't get stuck.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Yeah, so I it it's a tough thing because I think in some places, like, you just have to give up. Like, there's gonna be this new species in this place where it's like not supposed to be. Like in my heart, I want every ecosystem to be as close to just like what animals kind of evolved there and to stay there, but like it's so hard to do that nowadays, so now it's more of just like managing it at the extremes, right? I've seen Florida has all sorts of invasive species problems, right? Like anacondas. Yeah, right. Have you heard about the anacondas? So you have people that got, I guess, pythons and anacondas from like South America and from Asia, and either as pets or just at like like a facility for for animals, and then a hurricane comes, people either release their pets or they get lost, and then they start going into the Everglades and reproducing. So now in the Florida Everglades, you've got you know Burmese pythons, and then apparently they hybridize too. So you got like anacondas and pythons like hybridizing into like mega snakes. I don't that I think that's like something confirmed. Yeah, for sure. But but either way, there's now people that river monster yeah, they go hunting them, and um there's like some kind of urchin that I see a lot of people doing when they're doing like spear fishing and stuff. That there's there's different uh invasive animals in the ocean. And I mean, I've beaten a dead horse, but in Texas, I'm like the the the pig and the deer, the deer population here should be here, it's just a little bit too big.

SPEAKER_03 32:05

But the pig population, I mean So where yeah, where did those come from? Uh Russia Wada here. Think think it's same thing. I am somebody brought a Russian pig as a pet and then it went out into the wild.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

You you're you're making your homestead somewhere in Texas and you have a pig, your fence falls over from a flood, and then boom, that pig gets out, and then it just needs to find one other one, and man, a couple years later you could have thousands of pigs. Because they they reproduce way more than deer, right? Like deer, I think twins are kind of rare, triplets are probably not happening much, but pigs, dude, they'll drop a dozen of them. And they'll do it multiple times a year, and it only takes a sow like nine months or something to become viable. So from when one sow drops a litter, those piglets within a year could be pregnant. What is a a group of pigs? A sounder, a sounder sick. I love that. Yeah, I do love like the the function.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

I I don't know what that name is called, but it has a name for it. You know what I'm talking about? Like a group of crows is like a murder. Yeah, sick.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah, and I remember coming across the information about that, and it was some kind of like weird flex that was going on in like the biology community where these these guys trying to come up with like the more creative ways to name herds and groups of things. Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Group a group of squid is a squad. I don't know if that's real, but I really I really want it to be real. Squid squad.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

But yeah, I uh I grew up loving hunting and and got to like learn hunting from my grandfather, and he taught my dad some stuff. My dad's experience was a lot more like duck hunting and things like that. He's from East Texas, so uh unfortunately I've never actually even done that side of it. But kind of through my grandpa leading it, he taught me and all my brothers how to hunt, and it was super fun getting him to like go back out in his later 80s, and he's still shooting at white tail and stuff. And that's great. He he taught me and my family how to hunt in Arkansas on this horrible lease where I'm pretty sure the people around there were just like constantly poaching, so like the population was just destroyed. So, like seeing a deer on a hunt there was like incredible. Yeah, and then I was spoiled. My first hunting experience was on a high fence ranch in Texas with a feeder, and I am like, Dad, there's 40 deer. Why are we not shooting? Yeah, he's like, No, we're looking for the right one, and I could not comprehend the idea of being able to select one because where I'd seen before, it was just like you just are lucky to get anything, you know.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Well, we'll have to change that uh waterfowl hunting. Then there's a place like two hours east of here that I usually try I try and go out like two or three times a year, and I have a black lab, and she's an awesome duck. That's so cool. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, I haven't um really gotten to do much bird hunting. I've got done some dove hunts over the years, like just like a piece of property that you can do it at, but it's like sit on a pond and hope that they fly by, but I've never even like bagged out on dove hunting, which um this is a pretty good area, you know. It's so crazy with all of this of I have a game trail in my front yard here from the whitetail in this neighborhood. They bed down in the front yard, and then I go hunting and I'm like, can't find it. So it is funny having same thing with the dove, dude. I got these power lines, and there's just hundreds of them in the backyard all the time, and then you go try to hunt them and you can't even find them. And you can't shoot them in your front yard. No, no, I think being in city limits is a factor there. I see. Um but again, I I do think that some population management is needed. I mean, dude, your neighborhood's no different. Yeah. Gotta drive slow around the corners at night, man. Almost smoked a couple recently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then so you've been, I imagine you're pretty busy with this stuff, right? Like you said, a couple hunts a month.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

Yeah, we try try and do a couple a month. It's usually like one a month. Some of our bigger hunts, we try and get multiple episodes out of it. So, like, I think we just released uh Italy and uh Spain, which Daniel did, and we got two or three episodes out of each one of those. Um we can't do one a month, but yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

And then I imagine now you're probably pretty organized with looking at a year and then seasons of animals and then locations to hunt those things, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:27

So you're probably booked out for like most of next year as well. We have a calendar set up and we're like, six spreadsheet. Yeah, exactly. We both work in tech, so we have yeah some great spreadsheet methods. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

That's awesome. So then like what do you do in the summer? What's like the summer fill? Because I've struggled with that too. It gets so hot here in Texas that there's not much to do.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

So like the fishing stuff is a good option. This year we're we're gonna go to Africa and hunt South Africa, uh, which I have Daniel has done that before. I haven't. I'm really looking forward to going over there and see what that's about. And then there's a lot of like um archery tournaments. So they're new not tournaments, but like total archery channels comes to San Antonio. Yeah, there's one up by my parents' place in Wisconsin called Bowfest. So we'll kind of like pop around and do some of like non-hunting but outdoor things to to try and get some content with that.

SPEAKER_01 37:21

Yeah, because I've tried to try to figure out the same thing of like, all right, what can I do throughout the year to always be doing something fun, like hunting or fishing? But Texas summers are just so brutal that like they're rough. I think the answer is get out of Texas, yeah. Yeah. What so so elk hunting's like like the favorite? Yeah. Do you have like a worst hunting trip? Did you have anything that was just like miserable conditions or just nothing worked out for you?

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Yeah, I mean, I think growing up in Also elk hunting. True. I think when you're miserable there though, it's like it's still fun. Um Minnesota growing up, whitetail hunting where it's 30 below and you're sitting out there just like shivering. I can't miserable.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Fathom that temperature.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Yeah, truly, it's terrible. So like I I don't think I will ever rifle hunt in the Midwest again. Like it's in the middle of the winter. Yeah, like especially with like if you're in a blind or something where you can put a heater in it, like that's fine. But sitting in a tree stand, like that's all we did as kids is like just sit there. I remember the first dough I shot, I was like 16 and was shaking so hard from the cold that I was like, I shot. And I was like, I don't know if I hit this thing or not, because I was just and then walking up to it, the first thing I did was like put my hands on it. I was like, oh, it's warm. It's so long.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Yeah, I I've got the chance to go to Minnesota twice. Okay. Once for Christmas, once for summer. I it's a beautiful state. I can't wait to go back. I can't wait to hopefully one day go back and do like some outdoor something there. Um, but the winter, I think it only got down to negative 20, but I as a Texan had never felt that before.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

It's different. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

Negative 20? Yeah. Your skin, like your the feeling on your skin is different. It is. It's and like I didn't realize how easy it is to die in the cold because I went outside one time and like lifted up my shirt, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm like hypothermic already. I don't know how like homeless populations in Austin.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

I'm like, yeah, you can live outside all year. Up there, I'm like, what are you doing? Yeah, like starting taking south. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah, that that does sound miserable, although it was really cool because where I was staying in the winter, we got to do ice fishing. Um, so it was like a house backed up to a lake. We got to drive the truck and put up the ice fishing stuff, and I had never done that before. Ice fishing's definitely a like low interactive type of fishing.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

It's uh it's more drinking than it is fishing. Yeah, it's definitely just like hanging out. And then I don't know if you've ever seen that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

But I am blown away with some people's ice fishing little setups. Yeah, yeah. Like I guess it's like a like a sled shed.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Yeah, it's like uh it's like an RV that they put on top of the on hydraulic. So you drive it out there, drill holes, and then you drop it down onto the ice so it's flush. That's sick.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yeah, and like I was doing it in what looked like an outhouse. Yeah, it's like a little tiny box. I'm seeing online now, people got TVs and controllers playing video games and heaters and all sorts of things.

SPEAKER_02 40:24

Yeah, it's a full like it's a full RV, like showers, everything, and you drive it out there.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

This should be my first hunting experience. I can make that happen. Yeah, that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

So, did you growing up in Minnesota? Yeah, did you like play ice hockey or any of the other stuff?

SPEAKER_02 40:41

I wrestled all growing up and uh yeah, it was just wrestling. My dad was actually uh got me into kind of combat sports. So my dad was doing Taekwondo, he won Worlds at that, and then the gym he was training out of, a guy came in and was like, you know, hey, can we they had a kickboxing, he's like, hey, can we train over here? And he's like, Yeah, it's this thing called No Holds Bar. And this was like in the early 90s. My dad's like, sure, I wrestled, and I'm world-class kick, you know, taekwondo. The guy took him down and choked him out, and he's like, What the fuck was that? It ended up being Dave Manny, who won the UFC welterweight. Okay. So like from that day, my dad started training with Dave doing MMA. So like I grew up going to Indian reservations, watching Dave fight, and then from there doing jujitsu and stuff and that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

So, like like middle school, high school wrestling?

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, middle school, high school wrestling. I got kind of burned out after high school. Was like, I'm done with all of this. And then that lasted two years, and then I started training again and had one amateur fight, and I lost the decision. Yeah, fight, and then I was like, I either need to quit college and do this or I need to finish up my degree. Yeah. And I was like three years into it, I was like, probably should be like it probably should go to college rather. But yeah, and then I've kind of like I lit like grow up doing that, doing jujitsu at Dave's place, and he didn't do belts or anything, and then moved to Kansas City and was at a gym for six months there, then Nashville for a year and a half and was at a gym there, and then when I moved to Austin, I went to 10th planet, started there, and uh got my blue belt under Curtis. Sweet. And then we moved away. Family stuff kind of happened for a few years, and now getting back into it with AMP.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Back at it now? Yeah, back at it. How long have you been in Austin now? 2018, so six years, six seven years. Very cool. And and I I imagine you haven't been at AMP for that long because I don't think they've been around that long, right? No, it's been I don't even think it's been six months.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Okay, cool, man.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

It's been fun to get back and train again, and it's the best exercise. Like I I'm usually only able to go like two days a week, maybe three if I go to an open mat or something, but even just going in a couple days a week is so much fun and it's so good for you.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

But I bet the wrestling was tough, right? Minnesota's got wrestling culture, right? That part of the United States.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

So I used to go down and do the camps at the U of M and then do my dad would drive me down to do privates with some of the wrestlers. Um so it was that guy was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

What's your what's your favorite like takedown?

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Uh I'm very much a like ankle pick, outside single type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

Yeah, I've I feel like I finally have studied wrestling enough to like be able to ask that question. Okay. Whereas like just doing jujitsu, we're so bad at wrestling. And like I know single legs, I know double legs. I've been seeing this stuff forever. Doing MMA, you learn it. But like really understanding wrestling has been fun for me the last couple of years. That's cool. Um I didn't I used to just think like, nah, they're just wrestlers, they're all doing the same stuff. But no, there's those like subtle differences of there's like the blast double guys, and my favorite name of like the wrestling styles, the gator bacon, which is basically like butterfly sweeps. Okay. So you're like kind of That's a style?

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Gator Bacon? I don't never heard of that.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

I don't know if it's a style, but it's like a move. And like, but you know how you know Metagraps. Yeah, exactly. Shut up, Matt. Um but it is cool looking at it because I used to think as like a lanky guy that there wasn't like a wrestling style that would fit for my body type, and then just like And then you found the Gator Bacon. And then you realize like there's guys out there with like ankle picks and stuff where maybe they're not like the blast double style, but they still have a very effective takedown game, you know.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

Yeah, and it's interesting. Like I wrestled 135 my senior year, and like I didn't start putting on muscle or anything until like after college and working out with some buddies. So like I feel like my game is still tailored for a smaller guy. But now that I've gotten bigger, it's like uh you know, it's it's weird kind of incorporating those things.

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah, I feel like starting at a 10th planet with Minnesota high school wrestling has got to be such a cheat code. Oh, it's like 10th planet gyms do not they don't wrestle? Not I when you have a wrestler like PJ Barch go to Tens Planet, it's like a great combo because Tens Planet's gonna do like weird funky guard things and and like wacky submissions and stuff, but having that baseline will help because they don't really like emphasize.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

I was a big leg rider in high school, so like going over there and learning you know back takes and the truck and like everything without I was like, oh, this fits my wrestling game so easy that you can just move right into it.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Yeah, because I like I said, I mean I've done jujitsu forever and I'm just such a guard puller, and then like if you have any wrestling at all, it's like oh, this is such a problem, you know, it translates so well for learning jujitsu, especially the pressure piece.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Like, even if guys who don't know any submissions they can get on, like take you down and just smother you for five minutes and make it miserable.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah, yeah, there's there's something about wrestling, like the the culture behind it and just like the way it happens that it just produces like a tougher athlete. Like every wrestler I've ever trained with in jujitsu is just like a couple points tougher, you know.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

Yeah, there's something about like being a kid and going through that intense training where like it takes so much time and effort and intensity that it I think it produces kind of a little bit tougher of a person.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Yeah, I think I think there's a pace and intensity that that you literally feel whenever you're going up against against a wrestler, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

And then when you do too much jujitsu, you go against those guys, you're like, hey, can we go a little lighter? Yeah, like no, no, this is how it should be. You know, and it's it's it it's incredible. Like uh our our wrestling coach at Fight Factory, he wrestled at Minnesota. Shout out Crom. And like he he's he's he trains a lot of jujitsu now, and you know, over the years being a wrestling coach for grapplers, like he's got a lot of time on the mat. But even when he started training with us, knowing very minimal jujitsu, he's so effective. Like he you still can't do anything to the guy, even if you know you're a decade of experience over him. It's like like it's still grappling, yeah. You're still moving and manipulating bodies. Yeah, and I feel like even if you throw the gi on the guy, he's still gonna be a problem. Yeah, absolutely. Might be worse, Jesus. Man, I uh we gotta get some time training together, dude.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah, I would love to.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

I wouldn't know how to open that or something.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

Gianni trains with you guys, doesn't he? Man, that guy is a problem. Trying to work like train with him, like he comes in and does open mats, and yeah, it's so frustrating. Like, I my wrestling is I feel like pretty good, and I he I can never get anything with him.

SPEAKER_03 47:28

Yeah, he's so quick. Which um uh location do you typically train? West Lake Hills, yeah. What's like okay?

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yeah, I'll go up to Northwest Hills for their Sunday open mats once in a while.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

Nice. Yeah, I went recently. Did you? That was fun. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I like I like uh going out there.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yeah, so one one thing that we were kind of talking about before we started that you know, I mentioned my grandpa taught me how to hunt. So it seems like you've gone on your own to figure out and learn, I imagine, a lot of things in this hunting kind of domain. How did you go about like educating yourself?

SPEAKER_02 48:01

Yeah, I'll say like my dad gave us a good base, like he would take us out hunting and showed, you know, taught us how to be out in the woods and like just be out there.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Um and then whitetail hunting was mostly just like putting up stands and and doing that stuff. And then he did take us on a few elk hunting trips growing up. So we like were out there, but it was like a guide would go drop you at the top of the mountain and you just wander your way through. And I think one thing that has really helped us as we've kind of gotten into this next chapter of like seriously hunting is hiring outfitters and hiring guides. Like going out and and trying to hunt on your own is so difficult, especially if you like when you're traveling out west or something and you you don't have time to go out there and scout. So you can't spend weeks figuring out where the animals are, how they're moving. You don't have time to like understand the mountain and know the terrain and all that. So like hiring an outfitter who's an expert there and then just really paying attention, like not just following them, but like paying attention to what they're doing and asking them like, why are we going here instead of over here? Like, why are we like trying to understand the mechanics behind what you're doing? Yeah, the reasoning. Uh that's helped us quite a bit. And I feel like even in the last couple years, like Daniel and I were talking last week, and he's like, I think we're at a point where we can just get over-the-counter tags and go start hunting. Um, but it's it's really been getting around the right people and just like watching them.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

I that makes sense. I did a float trip in September in Montana on the Flathead River. Oh, cool. Uh, fly fishing, and it was my first time fly fishing. And in two days, like the amount of fish I caught and how comfortable I felt with the fly rod having really good guides was incredible. And like, there is no way I would ever have figured out any of what I was doing by the end of the trip on my own. And it was my first time really getting any kind of guided thing. All my hunting trips have just been like family-friendly kind of things, and mostly pretty low-key, like you said, like hunting in a blind and not much hunting effort put into it. Um, but it finally showed me of like actually having someone to teach you is really cool. And so now I look forward to trying that in different different ways.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

But yeah, to say, like, there's no belts when it comes to hunting, but there are different levels to like what people's knowledge is, how they it you know, how much time they've spent out there.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Well, and you're covering so many different things, right? You're doing turkey hunting and elk hunting and spear fishing, so it's like each one of those guides is a lifetime of experience in like a specific ecosystem, right? Like the the spear fishing guy, you don't know anything about the elk hunting, right? Right, so you gotta like have somebody that spent a lifetime doing this stuff and then pick up a little bit of their knowledge and then yeah, then pass it on. I think it's really cool how much variety you guys have on your channel.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

Yeah, we've been trying, it's I think it's good and it's been hurting us. Like uh, we ran it through Daniel ran our channel through Claude, was like, what's what do we need to do to grow it even more? And they're like, you need to focus on a niche. So, like a lot of our stuff has been international, and they're like, You need Claude, the AI was telling us like you guys need to focus on the international piece, grow your audience with just that. And my and like I said to Daniel, I was like, Yeah, but I like how much variety we have, and he's like, Yeah, but that's not what the algorithm awards. So it's kind of now we're at a point where like balancing growing the channel through the algorithm and like what that's telling us to do versus kind of having our own kind of fun, exciting trips. So I think that's gonna be kind of a nut our next challenge of like how do we do both? Sounds like we need to run the podcast too, Claude.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

100% see what it says on the same thing. Yeah. Uh real quick, I wanted to go back. Um, is there might be a silly question? What is there a difference between a guide and an outfitter? You mentioned?

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Yeah, so an outfitter is kind of the company, like an outfitter will have guides that work for them. So it's it's kind of one and the same. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. You can the I would say like the difference is like an outfitter, a lot of times, like when we're going to Wyoming, we're gonna hire an outfitter who is going to have the horses there, who's going to bring us out into the backcountry. They get you all the stuff. They're gonna have the all the stuff, and they'll have a guide there to take us out on a hunt. Gotcha. Yeah, for yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Great. That's a really good question, though, because uh where I was at in Montana was the only outfitter, I guess, with a permit for this section of this river. And so it was like a protected area, and we're using like barbless hooks, and so there's a lot of rules, and we weren't like keeping the fish or anything. And so I think in that one was like an outfitter that had been working with the state and was well trusted to get to this kind of like more pristine part of the river, I guess. Right. So I think sometimes the outfitters are super specialized into something like that. Whereas like you can't just hire anyone if you want to go to that part of that river in Montana, that's the outfitter you got to do.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

It gives you access, knowledge, and like like uh assets, like tools that you need to do the thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Yeah, like for theirs instead of horses, it was having the rafts. Cool, you know, and they're dude, they're so cool watching these people steer these things because it's like sometimes they're like pushing facing forward, and then sometimes they whip it around and they're like rowing backwards. So that's cool, and like just their control, and we're going through like I mean, to me, rapids, to them, probably pretty chill. But I'm like the their their ability to manage all of that, the timing of the day, where we're gonna be at what fishing spots, and then still be able to like coach me with my horrible flight technique, you know, is you do have to be um I will give a disclaimer like you have to be careful hiring outfitters.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Like, I've gotten scammed once no uh Colorado, and so like what happened? So we booked, we found this guy's website, everything looked legit. He had a license, whatever. Called him, talked to me, you just talked up a good game. And uh he the it wasn't a very expensive trip as far as elk hunts go. Like, I think we me, my dad, and my brother each gave them like a thousand bucks or something, so it's like three grand between the three of us for a deposit. Um and the first red flag was he sent us a contract that was like 25 pages long.

SPEAKER_03 54:01

Like, what the fuck? What's the is there like a normal thing?

SPEAKER_02 54:03

It's like a two-page like yeah, hey, that you release your liability, here's what you need to bring. Like, it's usually very simple. So we're like firstborn, this is weird. And so we like started, we signed it, and a couple months went by, and my dad was actually the one he's like, something seems off. Like he's tried to call this guy, something something's messed up. So we started I started doing digging in on this outfitter and found like there's better business review reviews of him. And then the more we dug, we ended up getting a hold of one of the guys who had hunted for him who left a negative review on a website, and he's like, This guy will go and drop you off in a field, and there's nothing around. He's like, it's he's like, My buddy who came out with me, we never saw an animal, nevertheless, an elk. He's like, It's a complete scam. And then the more we got a hold of more people, and they're like, he'll put you on property that he doesn't have rights to. Like, it started getting worse and worse, and then we ended up getting a hold of um, I can't remember what government agency it was out there, but they had an ongoing case for his father, who was accused of stealing millions of dollars worth of cattle where somebody brought it onto his property and he sold them all off and kept all the money, and then so they were going after him for that. And we're like, Well, can you tack us on with that? Like it yeah, he's screwing us over, and they're like, It's three thousand dollars on a like ten million dollar case. Like, sorry, but it's not worth it, it's not worth your time. Yeah, and we're like, Well, can we go after him in court? They're like, you can, but it's they're like, it's gonna cost you more in legal fees. Yeah, they're like, we recommend like we have a case against him, you guys basically just eat it and learn from it. So you do have to do your research, and like there's a lot of websites now, like Book Your Hunt and Hunt and Fool, and other places that will have like detailed reviews of outfitters, but you do have to be careful before you spend money on these.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

So is that what you might suggest to somebody like me, maybe, who is like pretty ignorant in this whole world of things? Yeah, go to like a kind of like an aggregator that has yeah uh vetted folks. Absolutely. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, I imagine your your kind of content is probably meant to inspire, right? You're probably for people like me that love hunting and have done some of it, and maybe not all of it, but like I can experience it with you. Um, but say you have like a new viewer, someone that got inspired by Outdoor Boys' channel and they're they're trying to get into it. Where do you even start if you want to get into hunting in 2026? Especially in Texas. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 56:29

I think the first thing I would do is like go to your local like bow shop or you know, gun shop and talk to people. Like the like Tyler who owns Archery Country. I've met so many people through him. Like we you and I were just up there the other day. I've met so many people from just interacting up there and like talking to those people, like go to your local shop and like make friends and understand what's around, like what you can um what you can do in the local area, and then start looking online at like turkey hunts are really fun, easy one to get in into. Any type of bird hunting, super easy and fun to get into. Like the big game stuff is where it starts getting more expensive or more challenging. So like start easy with birds and you know, or you know, hogs or something like that, and work your way into kind of the bigger game and the more challenging hunts.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Yeah, I think I think starting with birds is a really good point because you know, we're in Texas. People love guns here. I interact with people all the time, kind of through the combat sports world.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

And they love guns, and I'm like, oh, you ever like go hunting? And they're like, no, I just love guns and they're just like buying them and stuff. Yeah. And then usually the next kind of thing in that conversation is like, oh, like, well, have you ever been hunting? I'm like, no, but I really want to go. And I hear that pretty often, but then it's like I don't really have what's step one now. Yeah, it's it's really tough, especially like we're in central Texas, there's basically no public land that you can go on. I mean, I like going to Davy Crockett National Forest a couple hours away. The other direction you got like Big Bend. I don't really know what the hunting scene's like out there. I imagine it's pretty tough being a desert. You can't possibly have that much stuff out there. But those two options you're talking about driving for for several hours and just tons of private property that you don't have access to. Um, where I I I think that in Texas especially probably is what's killing our like hunting culture a little bit, is that it's just so hard to get access to go hunt. Um, but then I think a lot of people that maybe have a little bit of an interest in it are just up against the cost and just all the the learning that you have to do. But the archery country is a good point because right around when I was getting back into hunting in the last two years, one of my trips was to archery country to talk to Tommy up there and to just like ask him some questions about basically just archery. Um, because I had a fair amount of experience shooting bows when I was younger, but no real hunting experience. Um, and something that interests me is like traditional archery. Yeah. But I haven't pulled, you know, I haven't gotten an actual traditional bow yet.

SPEAKER_03 59:03

What what is that? So like traditional versus contemporary?

SPEAKER_02 59:08

What's what's the modern yeah, like a traditional bow versus compound? So a traditional bow is like like no pulleys, yeah, stick and string. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 59:17

Yeah. Which which is way harder. Way harder. Right? He's talking about a 70-pound bow, but on the compound bows, at some point it hits 70, but then at your full it's a draw.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

I my bow is an 80% let off, so it's you know, 20% of 70, whatever that math is. Yeah, so holding it's not that hard.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

You get on traditional, you just keep increasing the force as you draw, and there's no let off. So you're just holding that. So tall. Yeah, and then like you know, I'm sure on your bow, peep sight with like a little fiber optic, right? So you've got essentially a sight, right? It's much more accurate. His arrows are gonna fly basically flat at, I don't know, a couple hundred feet per second, right? Three, four hundred or something like that. 300 feet per second down there. Whereas traditional, I bet your feet per second's maybe lucky to hit 200 or something like that. I've never messed around with it, or like gotten into that world. Yeah, yeah. I it it's something that's always fascinated me. Um, I just gotta get to get like a bow. And I guess recurve should count as traditional, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:21

So you have like that's the one that's got that like the yeah, so it kind of bends back the other way. I only know that from video games.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

Yeah, yeah. And um played a lot of Diablo. I think that's about as primitive as you can get these days.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

There's a couple guys who throw spears, but that's yeah. I I that like that gets into that weird like animal rights thing where you're like, yeah, that kind of feels weird, like where you're throwing a spear at an animal and it runs away.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:47

I'm like, or like the guys that do it with like packs of dogs for pigs, and then they spear them, and it's like, dude, now this thing's fighting off eight dogs, and then you got a spear next to your dogs, you probably accidentally cut your dog sometimes. Like that's that's kind of wild. But then everyone thinks of like the Rambo movie, and they're just like jumping on a pig from the tree with their spear.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

What what draws you to uh traditional bow versus uh non- Yeah, like the the challenge.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

So there's another type of archery of like crossbows, right? So crossbows are really great for uh especially like disabled people or people that you know maybe they can't draw a bow, but they still want to like you know have some do some hunting or be still be an archery. But a modern crossbow is like hard to argue how different it is from a gun. Obviously, there's no like cartridge or anything, but they're so strong, they even have full-on like red dots on them and stuff. So they're oh, you can put a full scope on them, yeah. They're really accurate, they're really powerful, and you have a trigger, yeah. Right? So I would say on one side you have like the crossbow and then the compound bows, whether for hunting or just for competition, like I said, they're shooting super fast, super flat, and like you can shoot an arrow and stick the next arrow, Robin Hood style, into the knock of the previous one. You know, you can you can be very like reliably so the challenge with traditional just it goes up so much because on the string of a compound bow, you have like a little circle, and then you line that circle up with the front, just like you would on you know any other kind of site with like two in the back, one in the front, but the one in the front in the middle. Um, but like with traditional, you're just kind of vibing with the arrow, you know, just kind of like looking down the shaft of the arrow and kind of feeling it out muscle memory-wise. So I just think it's way more challenging because your range is much shorter. Like I can't imagine people are taking traditional archery shots at more than 25 yards, probably. That's probably like 2530s, probably right out there. You want to probably be closer to the 20 side of that. Whereas like Joe Rogan talks about all the time, he shoots like a 90-pound bow or something crazy, but he talks about 80-yard shots like regularly. That's insane. That's like further than I shoot rifles.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:01

So for the for competitions, I imagine competitions generally revolve around like compound bows or not?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

It's all across it, it's all across the board. Okay. Yeah, they have like different categories for everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

Okay, I was yeah, I was thinking if like compound bows are so advanced now, what makes it like what makes competition exciting if it's so easy to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:22

A lot of it so the like 3D ones is you don't know the range, so you can't range find it. So you walk up to a target and is it 23 or is it 29? And you have to know that, and like those guys are so good that if you're off by a yard, you're losing points. So that's a a lot of like you have to know your distances right on, like just by without tools, without tools, and then you have to be able to perform as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

Yeah, so I used to do a bunch of those 3D competitions, and it's kind of like a golf course type thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:51

Well, real quick, why is it 3D?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:53

So it's like a it'll be like a styrofoam animal. So like you'll get dude with sick. There'd be like dinosaurs and stuff. I mean, they'll have like deer and pigs and whatever else, but like they would have like funny things too. Um, but it would be like a course. So you walk the course, and at each different kind of station, you're shooting a different target and again at various distances. But they'll do like cones. So the furthest back cone will be like the most competitive, probably a compound bow where they're shooting. If you're in this category, you're shooting from the furthest cone. When I was doing it, I was a teenager, so I got to get up really close because I was in like the teens division, so it was less distance, you know. Um, but what was so cool about that was you got to see different groups. Maybe some people are more hunting focused, some people are just straight up like competitive, and like their compound bows, like all shiny with cool colors on it and stuff, and then some people are like camo, clearly hunting. But when I got into it, this was now you know 2009-ish, maybe 2008, and the guys that were doing traditional archery back then were all the old timers. So you'd see all like the young guys like me. I had like a hunting compound bow, and a lot of the other guys either were competitive compound bows or just kind of like hunting bows, and then all the guys that were like 50, 60, 70 years old were shooting their long bows or recurve, and they're pretty damn good with them. But I imagine that is probably less common now than it probably is.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

I don't follow the comp competitive scene hardly at all. Yeah, like pretty much just the hunting side of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:21

But like the the way you score it again, it's very similar to golf. Like if I've got a target and I completely miss, like I'm adding points or losing points, but then like there's a 12, a 10, like an eight and a five, I think so. Yeah. So you get like 12 points if you hit the smallest target, that would be like middle of heart and lungs kind of thing. And then as you miss from there, it changes your score. So I guess you're trying to get the highest score in in like attack total. Heart and lungs of the Tyrannosaurus Rex. Yeah, dude. I remember there was this one, it was like it was like a stegosaurus or something. I thought it was so cool. Sick. Yeah. And like literally using golf terminology. Like a mulligan. Yeah. So you can like either pay for or just have one mulligan per circuit. So like if you miss one, you can try it again. That's cool. Yeah, it's a really cool sport, honestly. Like getting especially like in the hill country, it was just sick because like it felt like hunting. I mean you're walking up and like there's like a shooting lane and a chance to get the animal, and it's it was really good practice. I never at the time ended up actually shooting any animals on hunts, but I was I was really enjoying that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

If if I got into um bows, should I like really focus on uh getting a left-handed specific one? Or should I just eat it and learn right? Because I'm coming from nothing, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:46

Are you a lefty?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

I'm a strong lefty.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

Yeah, then get a lefty bow. They make uh like almost all the modern bows, they make right and left-handed.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

So it's not it's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

Yeah, I feel like that market's been better because I know some people that have just like learned the other way because guns like the bold action rifles were just right-handed rifles or whatever. But no, I see a lot of stuff that accommodates or like locks that are switchable and go the other way and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

Yeah, I'm sure they sell archery country as I'm sure they have left-handed everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

Are there left-handed traditional bows? I feel like I feel like it's it's sticking a string. Like what how do you make that left-handed?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

Where the arrow rest is, so move it to the other side.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:27

Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:28

Like my kids have little kids bows that are you can put it on either side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

So uh gotta start with one of those. So last year you achieved something pretty cool. You did the turkey world slam. Yes. So I feel like I've looked into it enough, but explain it for G. Yeah, what is that? Yeah, for any. I imagine you're taking turkeys.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

So there's all kinds of different uh like I don't, they're not governing bodies, but like associations, I guess would be the word the word. Um and one of them, National Wild Turkey Federation, is one of the big turkey ones in the US, and they have a a bunch of different slams, and that's there's six different species of turkey in North America. And the world slam is like the is when you when you've shot all of them. If you shoot like three or four, there's different different combinations for different types of slams, but the world slam is shooting all six. So there's like the eastern turkey, which is the most popular, which is you know, most of the east of the US and like the a lot of the Rocky Mountains. And then you have a Rio Grande, which is our Texas turkey here for the most part, and then Miriams, which are kind of in like New Mexico in the mountains, like the what's that, um, Lincoln National Forest is where you find a lot of Miriams. That's where we went hunting those. And then you have uh the Osceola, which only is in a small area in Florida. So like it's around Ocala is where the Osceola is, and then you have a gould, which is in like Chihuahua, Mexico, up into Arizona. Like I've seen that some people hunt them in Arizona, but I don't it's pretty rare. Like you have to go into Chihuahua for the most part to go hunt those. And then the last one is the Oscillated, which kind of looks like a peacock, and it's um down in the jungles in like uh we went to Campeche, which was kind of out on the Yucatan Peninsula in the jungle. Like you have to go way back deep into the jungle to shoot those. That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

Is it do you are you um like kind of time blocked? Like is it within a year or something? No, it's it's just okay. Hold on. It's called a world slam, right? It should be America's. It should, it should, but there's no like that encompasses all the turkeys in the world, apparently. Apparently, any oh really?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:41

Apparently, turkeys in other parts of the world are one of those six.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:44

So if we brought turkeys like to somewhere else, they could potentially become invasive species. Potentially. That's a good point. Yeah, okay. All right. Man, we learned things.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:55

Wait, so what was the total timeline on finishing the world slam? Like when did you start it together?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:59

I did it pretty quick, like three years, I think. Two or three years. Um, it was just kind of like, hey, we I wasn't very intentional either. It's just like, hey, I shot an Eastern when I was at my parents' place, and then I was just went out hunting. I like bought a day lease in Texas, like went out for a day. They're like, you can go turkey hunt or shoot whatever you want. And I got super lucky and shot a Rio. And then Daniel and I were looking for hunts, and I was like, well, let's go do a Miriam. And then I shot three, and I was like, Oh, I'm actually like making progress on this thing. Yeah, so then we just booked out the other the other three of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

Does does like the process for calling them in and hunting them change on the different subspecies, or are they about the same experience?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:42

They're about the same. The the the oscillated in Mexico, the one that looks like uh peacock, that one's very different because you're like in the jungle and they're like a jungle bird. So they're like these guys who are living who live down there, the natives I gotta look this up. They uh they're like, I think it's Mayans down there, like native Mayans that live there, that's who's guiding you. And they're like standing in the forest and they're like, Oh, there's one this way, and you're like, what? Like they can hear them and yeah, those are those old school hunters that I'm talking about. Exactly. So that one's a bit different. All the other ones are pretty similar, where you like set out decoys, call the osseolas in Florida. They're supposed to be supposed to be the hardest ones to hunt. Our guide we set up, called in two and shot two in 20 minutes. Dang, they do kind of look like peacocks.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:32

Yeah, they're wild, huh? You seen these? Seen these bad boys?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:36

Oh no, not really. I mean, I had seen it on like his thumbnail, but colorful.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:40

It's cool. They're cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

And then shotguns. Shotguns on all of them. On all of them, yeah. Have you ever bow hunted a turkey?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

Yeah, I bow hunted one time. I shot one, and then I like this was when I was a kid, I like shot one with my bow and like tried to climb out of the blind because it like ran away. Tried to like chase it and like end up, it was a whole mess. Like, ate shit out of the blind. I'm trying to chase after this turkey and it flew into a swamp and like I just I know I shot like we had blood and feathers all over, so I hit it good, but I think I scared it so much it got an adrenaline dump and like went and buried itself into a swamp somewhere. So wish wish he had that on video. That would be great. So much, it was such a clutch fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:21

That's uh okay. Before I think before we started rolling, you were talking about like a uh uh a scared gobble or something like that. A shock gobble. Shock gobble. Yeah. Okay, so can you break that down?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:32

Yeah, so like I'll I'll give an example. So when we were in Lincoln National Forest in New Mexico chasing Miriams, what you do is you get in in the pitch black and you climb up the mountain, and then you either use a crow call, is the most common. There's a couple other like shock gobble calls, but I use a crow call and you just it's just a screaming noise, and they get scared and will gobble at you. And that's it's a locating call. So you get up in the mountains, you hear that, and then you try and get in within a hundred yards and sit there and wait for them to come up out of their roof, so come out of the tree, and then you call them in to shoot them. They hang out in the tree, yeah. Yeah, turkeys can fly, bro. Yeah, like really fly? Yeah, yeah. They'll they'll like fly a couple hundred yards, like they're not gonna like migrate, but they can evade predators.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:17

Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, that's just goes to show you how ignorant I am. I thought turkeys were just like so like just big old dumb butterball things, you know what I mean? I thought the same thing until I saw it and I was like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:30

The wild turkeys too are weird in that their body shape is like much more of a football, they're not like the turkeys you get at a store, they're like way more elongated. So like I usually deep fry them and you have to like flip them for halfway because they're so much longer, but they still taste just as good, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:47

Yeah, those are those GMOs make them built differently, yeah. Absolutely. It's so crazy seeing like a GMO chicken breast. And then see, like I'm sure with all this international travel, right? You probably go somewhere, even like Mexico, where you have like a normal chicken breast, and it's like, man, why is it so tiny? It's like that's what a chicken breast supposed to be. Because I mean, the ones where it's like a half of a breast is like two and a half inches, three inches thick and just massive, and it's like, yeah, those are those ones that in like less than a year they get so big that their legs will start breaking because they're so fat, you know. That's wild. And those those are those points of like, you know, go get the the natural wild turkey, it's probably pretty good meat, but at least it's living somewhat of a natural life and it's not just like being force fed. And it's yeah, you know, I think for people that are opposed to eating meat, like, yeah, sure, be opposed to it, but don't be opposed to the guys that are doing it with the animals. Like, yeah, they are going into nature to go kill an animal, but at the same time, that's a better way for it to be alive than these farms.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:50

They don't no wild animals die a happy death. Like, none of them die laying around chilling. Yeah, like they get eaten by they get eaten, chased down, killed. Like a coyote's ripping it apart while it's still alive. They're gonna die a miserable death one way or another. Like getting an arrow and not knowing, like getting shot with an arrow, running 20 yards and dying is the most letting that little shot gobble here and there, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:12

It's kind of fun because you don't know that much about like hunting things. I don't know a shit about shit. So there's like he was talking about like the grain of his arrow, right? So it's different types of like 120 some something, yeah. Right. So you have like field point, which is just like practice, so it's just gonna like go into targets, you can pull them right back out. You got like broadheads, which is like razor blades on it, and that's like meant for hunting, right? And there's different types of those, you got different shapes, there's like expandable ones where they start out smaller and then they can like open up with like mechanics, yeah. And when I was watching like hunting TV as a kid, this product came out that's like the guillotine. Oh, yeah. So for turkey hunting with a bow, you get these giant razor blades sticking like two inches off in each direction. So you're shooting like this giant propeller that has like a cutting range of like you know, multiple inches. Are you just straight decapped? Oh, there are so many crazy videos. So they're advertisements of people just decapped. Which, like, if you're gonna shoot a turkey, you might as well end its life very quickly and as fast as you can.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:23

That is insane.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:24

So I figured you'd find that pretty interesting. We have to pull up a video whenever we're gonna show you what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:32

We have to. So with um with turkeys, if they get accurately shot with a guillotine arrow or whatever, and they get their head decapitated, are they still like running around for a second or is it just straight up?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:46

Yeah, they flop for a while.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:48

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

I mean, even if they like Daniel made a perfect shot on Saturday or Friday, shot a turkey with a 20 gauge TSS shell right in the neck, like took all the feathers off of it. I think I posted that one on Instagram, like perfect shot, and that thing was flopping for like two minutes. So they have a lot of nerves.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:06

I saw this really cool video uh recently where this guy had cut the tail off of an alligator like an hour and a half before he took this video, and his he was just showing like the nervous system of the alligator, I guess. It's crazy. And so it's like whole big meaty tail was cut off the body for some time, and then he like was, I guess, butchering it from that point, and he just wanted to show people, and this thing went nuts, and it's like it is pretty trippy because things can be dead, but their their muscles can still be the electricity is still so.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:38

After we shot those osseola turkeys in Florida, we're like, our flights aren't for three more days. Like, what are we gonna do? And we so we moved our flights up a couple days, but there is a father and son going out alligator hunting the next day.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:50

And you hit it with a guillotine.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:52

No, we went with them, but they it was crazy when that after they dragged them out of the water and they've been dead for hours, they still were like taping their mouth shuts. They're like Wow, yeah, they'll open up and take a bite out of you, even while though they're dead. I'm like, That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

I mean, I keep seeing that even with just like some fish, right? Certain fish that like their nervous system's still going and like certain spiny scales and stuff will cut your hands. Yeah, it's wild, like uh making some outdoor content. I didn't even realize one of the times I mean my brother took this pig, had it butchered up like immediately. That was a good snap. It was still muscle spasms in the cooler. It was like we got it on ice that quick that the thing's still twitching, and it's like, oh, it's it's dead, but it you can still see the movement. It was kind of kind of a wild experience, but absolutely. I think it's uh I imagine you got probably got a pretty full freezer at home, huh?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:44

Yeah, the tough so last year we did like a Europe series. So we did uh Ireland, Italy, Spain, Scotland, and Hungary. And you can't import any of the meat. Okay. So like all almost all of our hunting last year, we couldn't keep any of the meat, which sucks. Like you eat what you can when you're there, but like you can only eat a little bit and then you donate the rest. But no, I actually I'm lacking right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:09

Yeah. Yeah, I've been able to piggyback off of deer over the years that I I get to eat a lot here. And shout out to Chris. I actually had some of uh his javelina chorizo just last night. First time having pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:22

Did he use the the book? The book?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:26

I think he had someone uh process it for him and just was kind enough to give gift me some. Nice. But that's the most awesome thing about being around hunters is yeah, I had some of his stuff. I've got some uh oryx from another friend's hunt that I can't wait to put that into the crock pot. It's like nice always getting some different types of protein from people, and yeah, I guess I I eat a lot of game, so it keeps the the H E B bill down a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:55

Absolutely. No, it is nice once you have a freezer full of an animal. Yeah that's the way to go. Yeah, and I'm going back out this weekend.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

What are we gonna say?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:03

Do you have multiple freezers?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:04

I imagine you got like two chess freezers.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

I have a huge one in my garage that I'm able to actually use to fill out.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:11

Yeah, so I'm going out this weekend to do some um varmint control, but also hopefully some turkey hunting as well. Do you have any advice? Say I'm a teen. Brand new. Are you what kind of varmint hunt?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:27

Like coyote?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:28

So say say turkey advice first and then we'll go into the turkey advice? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:33

For going out turkey hunting? Yeah. Yeah, I think the biggest thing is like get a call and practice with it a lot. And then turkey hunting should be pretty quick. Like, you shouldn't be out there for six hours at a time. It should be locate the turkeys or have them on camera so you know roughly time the time they're coming by. And then if you can buy like a sm a Jake decoy for 50 bucks and putting that out, that can help a lot. What's a Jake? Uh immature male. So like a small beard is a Jake. And for some reason, like if a mature Tom turkey's coming in and they see a little Jake out there, it makes them super angry. So they come to it right away. Whereas if you put a Tom decoy out, they don't always come into it. So it's like, oh, it's this immature guy coming in to try and steal my girls.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:19

And uh they'll come to that. But like practicing with your call is important, and then you know, if you're out there and you're not seeing anything after a couple hours, they're not gonna magically show up.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:29

So yeah, how do you how do you practice if there's not I feel like you will you practice and you know it's good when the turkeys come, but if you're practicing at home, I mean there's so many YouTube videos of like how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

Like if you pick it up, like turkey calls, like a box call, you can do like if you watched a YouTube video and practiced for like a half hour, you could probably do enough to like make it work, but you know, levels to it again, like yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:54

So you're just kind of trying to match what it sounds like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:57

Yeah, if you like I already know what a hen's gonna sound like, so I know what sound I'm looking for, and it can just be the challenge of like what I know it should be. What's it sound like I'm not gonna do it? What's it sound like? No, no, I'm not gonna do it. Whenever I'm done, I'll give you my gobble too. Oh damn it. But yeah, I think um I think I'm gonna be driving on Friday with the turkey call and be I'm gonna I'm gonna be calling the entire drive.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:25

And the the most important thing is pattern your gun before you go out. So if you haven't shot your shotgun at a target, make sure you do that. So Daniel Daniel flew in with his shotgun and TSA took his action and stole it, so he didn't have a shotgun. So I borrowed him one of my guns and I had patterned it last year and it shoots a foot high.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:45

Like I know it shoots a foot high when you're out there, but when the turkeys come in and everything's getting exciting, you're not thinking about like, oh, I need to aim low. So he missed one in the morning, and whereas I had my gun, which was patterned, I have a red dot on it, dropped right there. But if you don't pattern it, like I've seen that happen way too often.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:05

So all y'all out there that are like me, to pattern is is that just to like just the side identify okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:14

So like if if you have like a like a Benelli, for example, like mine's a Benelli, you can put in different shims in into the stock to change the angle. So like I need to take mine apart and like fix that. And if you have a red dot, like I put a red dot on a Benelli shotgun, you can just adjust the sight. So it's basically sighting it in. Okay, okay. With shotguns, they call it patterning, patterning it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:35

Okay. Yeah, and something else you mentioned that I think you'll find interesting. Did you hear him say that they have beards? Are you familiar with the turkey beard? Is that the fucking thing thing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:45

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:46

No? No, no, they have like a bunch of hair that hangs out right here. Like straight?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:52

Yeah, it looks like it looks like a little goatee. Like imagine like a pointed goatee. But just coming straight up the chest, straight out and drops down. Yeah, so now pull pull that up. Because when he was talking about like a Jake, right? So jakes will have they're less mature, a shorter beard. So then when you want to like show off a turkey, and you can give your point on this too, but you have like the beard length. So you want like there's a funny word for when the beard drags on the ground, right? But it's so long that it can like touch the ground, right? So you want one of those, and then I the talons, people will kind of like look at how big their talons are, I guess. Um, but yeah, you basically want a long bearded tom with big talons, and then you take out like whatever their tail is. The fan. The fan, right? You want to like open that up. So like I'm seeing that on like like a kind of like a trophy cut. Yeah, I was gonna say like when people mount like either like a um like a full-on mount where they put you know the skin back on the deer, or like a European mount where it's just the skull. Uh when you do that for a turkey, it's usually like the fan and the beard. So it's similar to like like you got a buck and you're showing a skin.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:02

Yeah, yeah, exactly. In my garage, I have this I have five, I never got my oscillated one back, but I have five of the six like on the wall. Sick.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:09

So with like varying amounts of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:12

It's hard for me to see it like on a live turkey. Oh that's what it's pretty cool, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:18

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and even that was something that I remember probably learned it on like a hunting TV show, you know. Um, yeah, so then haven't God, I don't even know. The last time I went turkey hunting had to have been over a decade ago. So I'm really excited to like just try calling again. I always like I like calling. And then varmit like coyotes, we we've got a lot of coyotes. Neighbors have seen them a lot, apparently taking out some calves. So that's actually like legitimately concerning for some of our neighbors.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:50

Um, and then through working with a biologist with the state, trying to take out, I guess, any animal that can eat ground nesting birds, is my understanding. So it's like skunks, raccoons, okay, uh, feral pigs, and and coyotes, or any kind of cat as well. So um I've we uh I actually took him out hunting for his first hunting trip. Nice. Yeah, God, what was that last year already? When was it? Damn. Yeah, it must have been like November-ish. But we went kind of spotlighting, looking for pigs, and all we all we saw was the other things, and this was before the biologists had communicated to take out the other violent. So we saw the skunks and the raccoons and didn't didn't shoot them, but now the state is asking for us to do that. So that's skunks, too? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:39

Sorry, bro.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:40

Yeah, no, I'm just gonna shoot it and I I think it's then drive away. It's not gonna spray. I think it'll only spray if we like interact with it. So I think I think we'll be good.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:48

If you shoot a skunk, it won't stink. I don't think it'll immediately spray.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:53

I think every time I shot them, I like I shoot it and leave it for a week and then go back. Really? Yeah. I've never taken the risk. I don't know if they'd like to do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:04

Like we we have one that that lives out at the ranch and it's like the longest fur, dude. Yeah, and it's so fluffy and white, and you see it, you're like, wow, what a cool looking creature. And then you're like, no, I I'm like afraid of getting skunked. His dog recently got skunked and listening to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:22

It was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:24

Oh, I was like and every day I was having like skunk anxiety every time that that dog was outside and he would bark and be like, skunk. And then that one morning, dude, I thought he got skunked again for sure. I I feel like you wouldn't know. I know he rolled in something stinky.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:41

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:41

Whatever it was. Oh no, please. I came up to him and I got funk, and I was like, Oh no, did this happen again? But dang. It must it must have not been like the first time. Oh man. But I'm excited because I have purchased a predator call. I was gonna say that's the most important. So I'm gonna do that, throw it out a couple hundred yards away. And I've never done that. I'm super excited to try it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:03

Um I don't know what's that is that like a a a calling like beacon and you just like place it and it does the call for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:11

It'll have like different sounds. So it'll have like dying rabbit or like it it's like it's pretty scary. It's an awful sound. Like if you the worst is if you try and predator hunt at night, like if you're using thermals or something and you have this, it's the eeriest thing because you'll put that out there and it's screaming and you're laying there like what am I doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:28:35

But yeah, it's basically just a Bluetooth speaker. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:38

So it's got a super long-range remote, and I'll pick whatever dying with like a soundboard, basically. Yeah, and you can pick your different things, and hopefully that calls in some of the coyotes. Um I was talking to one of our other guests uh about this because he he's got a little farm in uh dripping springs, I think it was. And you know, I don't want to shoot coyotes, I think they're cool looking. I like dogs, makes me like feel like I'm looking at my pet dog. But then when you have like the neighbors are losing calves because of these things, it's like okay. It's the same kind of thing as the invasive species, yeah. It's like there's a point in which managing these is gonna matter because otherwise it's gonna, you know, I don't want our neighbors to be losing all their calves from the coyotes, and yeah, we've got a lot of them. Are are coyotes invasive? I don't think so. Coyotes are kind of they're just a problem. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think coyotes are learning to evolve with us a little bit. So they're I think they're in a larger range now than before like European settlement of the continental United States. Like I think they were just in like a smaller region, but now they're in every city across the entire United States. What do you think that is? Um I think that they they've just kind of learned how to adapt to live within our our waste and you know, the people feed feed the coyotes their cats and their little dogs and keep buying more pets that keep getting taken out by them. And they're really smart, dude. I mean, yeah, I I I can't remember all the details, but I know they're adjacently like wolves too. So think of how smart a dog is. And they're in packs. So they know how to stay quiet and live in cities where people don't think that they live there. But they're literally in every I would imagine most suburbs across the United States, definitely every major city. They're in places like Manhattan, you still got coyotes, you know. So that's crazy. Yeah. Um but I'm not super into predator hunting. Sometimes when I see the people doing the mountain lions, I'm like, oh man, you gotta go you gotta go do that. Cause like there can't possibly be that many of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:44

Apparently, mountain lion taste great. Oh which is I I heard that and I was like, a cat? You're eating like the whole I'm with you. It it's a weird deal of like to each their own, but it it is it does feel strange.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:57

Well, it to me it's like going up the energy levels. I remember from science class, right? They're like you're losing energy as you go up. So I'm like, man, what kind of meat are you even gonna have for like a bird of prey or a like an apex predator like a cat like that? Yeah. And then like the reality is we think of of mountain lions as like the big jacked ones, and I'm sure in parts of the Rockies and stuff, they're like really big and really healthy with places with plenty of food. But I'm sure if you find a mountain lion in Texas, it's probably like really skinny and like I can't imagine emaciated looking. Yeah, I don't know how you'd get big. Because when I do see them on people's like game cams and stuff like that, they never look like super fit and healthy compared to the ones I see guys that harvest up in in mountain states, and it's like okay, that's a big 180-pound.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:44

Yeah, they're big.

unknown 1:31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:46

You ever had any any uh crazy run-ins with animals?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:50

Uh so this spear fishing trip that I just went on. We the second day, our second dive, our first dive, it was the visibility was terrible. It was like five feet, and it was we went went down to like 60 feet, and it was we got a couple uh of those lion fish, but it was it kind of sucked. And then we came up and we were driving around, and I didn't know this, but like when you're out in the ocean, there's the green and blue, and the green is I'm I'm messing this up, I think. Green is really good visibility, blue is bad, or vice versa, one of the two. And so we were driving around trying to find where on the reef we could get into the green water, and so we found a spot and dropped into it, and we were there for a little while, and all of a sudden that like blue water came in and it would just like the visibility shut off. And as we dropped off the reef edge where it goes out into the sand, uh 10-foot bull shark came in, it just came in right up to us and then turned at the last second, and I just I think I had to a little bit extra my wetsuit. Holy shit, you're glad you're underwater for a moment, yeah. But like moments like that, I was like, huh. And then you can't, then we're like, all right, we were just about done, so we're going up, and like me and the guide are like face to face because the visible visibility went so bad because a storm was coming in. Like you come up to 15 feet and you have to wait there for four three minutes while you're adjusting, and you're just like sitting there and you can't see around you, and you're like, We got out, and the guy goes, Man, that was eerie. And I was like, Oh, thank you. It wasn't just me.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:20

Wow. How long does it take to come up from 60 feet?

SPEAKER_02 1:33:23

Uh we it we were down for like a half hour, I think. So I think we had a safety stop at 15 feet for three minutes and then came right back out. So it's not that bad. It's not bad. Yeah, it's not bad at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:34

Yeah, the idea of bins sounds sounds painful.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:39

Yeah. Is that like when like your your body doesn't have enough oxygen or like the oxygen is like dissolved in some weird way or something like that because you're at a certain depth? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:50

Something like that, right? Like, I guess the way I understand it is if you were to go from the high pressure being deep underwater, that the gas inside your body will rapidly expand as you hit the surface, right? So I guess by going slow, it like allows you to process the gas differently. But yeah, you would basically explode from the inside.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:12

Yeah, that's why it sounds so different. That's metal. Yeah, I saw a guy do did some crazy dive where he went down like three or four hundred feet just with oxygen tanks, and it took him 15 minutes to go down, but four hours to come back up. Oh my god. Yeah, that sounds miserable. Yeah, no, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:29

I'm not claustrophobic, but that sounds like that would make me claustrophobic.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:34

Yeah, I that's like some kind of like principal something, right? Like I'm sure nothing, doesn't ring any bells.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:41

Oh, you're going back to science class. Yeah. Mitochondria is good luck, bro. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:47

Cool. If you know what I'm talking about, drop it. Because right now all I got in my head is is a bolognese principle. And I don't I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that's not accurate.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:57

No, and now I'm thinking of like Bernoulli, but that's like flight. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:01

I mean, if you said it confidently, I would have bleed you. Well, what I was gonna say, what was the uh um out of all the places you've been to and traveled to, you know, for your hunt, and otherwise, what's probably like one of your most favorite?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:15

Definitely uh Hungary last year. Like Budapest was I wish I could have spent another like two weeks there. Yeah, it was a cool city, like very clean, very like nice city. Um it felt like almost an American city, but with like their vibe to it. Yeah, like it was just really cool, and the people there were really nice. The um terrain was beautiful, like hunting there was really fun. It was just kind of I I didn't have much expectations going into it, and I had a day at the beginning and a day at the end to kind of just spend time exploring Budapest. Nice, and it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:51

What did you hunt in uh red stag?

SPEAKER_02 1:35:54

Okay, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:55

How long were you there for? Just a week. Just a week, yeah. And so whenever you travel um to these places, you I imagine you're spending most of the time out on the hunt. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:05

Okay, yeah. That's right. Like New Zealand, we went for two weeks um and did like a week of travel and a week of hunt. New Zealand's probably like the South Island of New Zealand. I think you could spend like months there. Just it's kind of like it has every ecosystem, like it has mountains, it has jungle and everything in between on one island, and it's like six hours to to get from the jungle to the mountains, and they have sounds like a great habitat for all six turkey of the world, yeah. Probably. But that was cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:37

Man, I'm I'm a pretty big Lord of the Rings nerd and fan, and the idea of hunting out there, yeah. I'd be like, dude, I'm hunting the Urukai. And we went to Hobbiton right before we went hunting, yeah. Oh, dude, that's awesome. That was fun, yeah. That was greatest trilogy of all time. Absolutely. Yeah, I can't imagine you're you're as into the the high fantasy stuff. I love, yeah. Lord of the Rings is just is too good. And the way that they created it, and it was like before a lot of like CGIs. Yeah, they're like actually going to those places to create the sets and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:13

Yeah, like they were they were talking to us about when we did the tours about like Peter Jackson would literally get in a helicopter and fly around, and he's like, I want this spot for this, and then they'd go into the I want them to walk here, yeah. And like apparently the sheep that were there are not the right type of sheep for the Shire, so he had like brought in sheep to the city. And that's how invasive species happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:34

Honestly, in New Zealand, they have their own problems with it too, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:39

You can hunt everything there without a like like you just need a hunting license because everything's invasive, like nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:43

Oh shit, yeah, dang. Yeah, yeah. And so I mean, like, you know, your video, I didn't know this that the axis in Hawaii was from a Thai king given a gift. But whether it's a gift or on accident or just bringing over your own food when you settle a new place, but yeah, it's just like sometimes it just takes a pair and then all of a sudden you got a whole species living in the place.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:05

And I think New Zealand was the British were bringing them over for like to hunt them there. They wanted like their own private game preserve that was predators, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:15

Yes, exactly. Are you proud of me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:22

Yeah, and then you know, that's where the the invasive thing gets crazy, is when we've recognized we've done that, and then we're like, oh, because Hawaii has a bunch of really good stories, right? There was like the mongoose that got brought in to take care of snakes or whatever it was. So you try to make a band-aid on it, and then you introduce another species that they've taken off. So I don't think that we're that good at biology that we can figure out the right species to fix an invasive species problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:48

You create a new issue, it's like, oh, we have uh uh issues with the um grass in a lake, so we're gonna bring in carp, and then the carp eat all the grass, and now you have issues with that being too sandy, and now you have to do something to kill all the carp. It's like yeah, every time we do something, we don't see all the unintended consequences that come with it and make it worse.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:08

Yeah. Hey, whenever you're um spearfishing or doing any of the the fishing or underwater stuff, do you have straight up like underwater camera housings that you're taking this stuff in?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:18

Yeah, so I had a GoPro 360 in an underwater housing and then a GoPro on my head, and then I bought a housing for my phone that so you it like you have to run an app so that your volume buttons are your record buttons. And then like you put your so when uh the further down you go, the less um red light you lose. So you put red light filters depending on the color of the water. That's cool. This is my first time doing it, so we'll see how that footage turns out. But when I was I like pulled it up on my laptop and it it a lot of it looks pretty good, it's not great, but it's GoPro footage.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks cool. Is that what y'all generally shoot with whenever y'all are out hunting stuff on land?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:58

No. So Daniel has a DSLR camera and a camcorder. That's kind of what we started with on our first season, and then our iPhones and GoPros. Yeah. What we've switched over to is there's a company, I actually think they're based out of Austin. They have a bunch of uh different spots called Aperture Rent, like Aperture Rent. Cool. And we'd rent kind of their high-end um, I can't remember what it is right now. Rent their high-end camcorders, and that's what we've been taking with us to go.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:25

Yeah, renting's a great option. Like for me, when I was saying I'd go into jujitsu events all over, as I wanted to step up, I would just rent, and it was such a good deal for I couldn't afford these kind of cameras, but renting them was really affordable.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:36

Yeah, get a five thousand dollar camera for like a hundred bucks a week. It's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the economics don't make sense to buy it.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:43

Yeah, not for a very long time. Yeah, and then especially if you want to try out like different models and and see like what kind of works better for you. Yeah. Um, well, I think we can kind of wrap it up there. Do you want to drop uh the name of your channel and just like where people can find your stuff and maybe find some of this sweet Roman Harvest merch?

SPEAKER_02 1:41:01

Yeah, RomanHarvest uh.com. You can get some of our merch there, and then Roman Harvest on any of the social media platforms. Uh our videos are best on YouTube. Uh we cross post everywhere else, but I would say YouTube is kind of our bread and butter, and that's where our uh our content is best found at.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:18

Well, sick, dude. Thanks so much for taking the time to come hang out and chat with you guys. And I'm looking forward to telling you about my uh turkey hunting experience after this weekend. That'll be cool. Yeah, thanks for it. Thanks so much for watching. We'll be back with another episode soon. Juice, you got anything?

SPEAKER_03 1:41:33

Um send us your best bird call. Awesome. All right, dude. So