Who’s Afraid of AI? Rethinking AI with Guest John Burke

In this episode of Amplifying Autism, Wendy speaks with John Burke about how autistic thinking can thrive in the world of AI.

John shares insights from his work with AI, as well as his experience as a late-diagnosed autistic adult. The conversation explores how AI can be a powerful tool when used thoughtfully. John encourages listeners not to give up after a frustrating first experience, but instead to experiment with different platforms, use better prompts, and actively engage with the technology.

Takeaways:

• There are many different AI platforms; explore and find what works for you
• A poor first experience with AI doesn't mean it can't be useful
• Don't accept everything AI offers at face value. Feel free to question and challenge AI responses
• An autism diagnosis at any age can bring clarity to past challenges and successes

About John Burke:

John Burke has spent over 25 years building IT security, software, leading teams, and solving "impossible" problems. His background in education has led him to work as a coach, mentor, pastor, and speaker.

He has lived and worked abroad, including time in Uzbekistan helping create sustainable jobs, and has a deep interest in languages and cultures. Today, John works at an AI startup and loves working with and talking about AI and security, and building environments where different kinds of thinkers can thrive.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-burke42/

About Your Host:

Wendela Whitcomb Marsh, MA, RSD, is an award-winning author, TEDx speaker, and host of Amplifying Autism. Though not autistic herself, Wendy has dedicated her career to supporting the neurodivergent community. She is the founder of Adulting While Autistic and helps late-diagnosed autistic adults find clarity and community. 

Website: wendelawhitcombmarsh.com

Books Available on Amazon

Instagram: @wendela.w.marsh

Adulting While Autistic: @adultingwhileautistic 

Join the Newsletter: https://forms.aweber.com/form/49/591191449.htm

Thank You for Listening:

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it. Your support helps us reach more late-diagnosed autistic adults and those who care about them. 

YouTube: @AmplifyingAutism

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

This is Amplifying Autism, where every voice matters and every story shines. Join us as autistic authors, professionals, and trailblazers share their journeys, real stories, and real insight from those changing the world, one conversation at a time. I'm so pleased to welcome John Burke to the show today. He spent more than 25 years building IT security and software and leading teams. John loves solving impossible problems and working with others to make life better. His background is rooted in elementary education, which led him to work as a coach, mentor, pastor, and public speaker. He has lived and worked abroad in Uzbekistan, helping to create sustainable jobs. John is a lover of travel, cultures, and languages, including Uzbek, Russian, and others. Today he works at an AI startup. He loves working with and talking about AI security, or both together. He was diagnosed with autism as an adult, which helped explain why he excels in some lanes while struggling in others. Along the way, he's learned how identity, relationships, and stress shape everything, and how to build environments where every kind of brain can thrive. John, I'm so delighted to have you here with me today at Amplifying Autism. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Thanks for inviting me, Wendy. I'm excited for this.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Now, one thing I know about you that you have in common with um many, if not most, of our listeners, is you did not always know that you were autistic.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

No, not uh not till pr pretty late. Actually, I think it was during like COVID, so 2020, 2021, though only like five years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I've met a lot of people who learned about it during COVID. That kind of brought everything up for it. So what was that what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Uh for me, it kind of had some impetus. It was kind of the culmination of having learned a lot about it. My son was actually diagnosed a little late high school. And so that brought a lot of clarity to like, okay, this is what he's been struggling with all the time and how we can help him. And I get pretty obsessed with things. That's probably part of that diagnosis. And so I kind of became obsessed with learning about autism and how to help my son and how to aid him. And suddenly, as I started learning about the traits, I'm like, huh, that's interesting. Oh, you use uh uh excessive exercise can help you kind of like self-medicate, huh? I wonder about that, you know. And just everything kind of kept falling into place. And I've managed to do pretty well in life, and but there's moments still where like I can see myself pretty much revert back to the same struggles he had where you can see it, and it's like there's a stress and a panic under the hood, basically, that is not far away.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Mm-hmm. I'm guessing that it can be exhausting keeping that hood down all the time, like masking 24-7. I mean, maybe not 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

It can be.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah. I've learned a lot about kind of recognizing some of that. I have stomach problems. So if those are getting worse, I get like um kinker sores, or if it gets really bad, I'll get cold sores. So I'm paying more attention to that. Uh I can feel like a tightness in my shoulders, even a little bit of a tightness in my chest when I'm if it's really getting in panic there. And so I've started to recognize those. I try, I have some good friends I can share it with. I counsel. I've been counseling since 2016 pretty continuously, and I started 2010 for about a year as well.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

It sounds like uh you are really paying attention to those, like the way the physical symptoms relate to the uh anxiety, which I think a lot of people experience, and they may not be aware of how those are entwined.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

No, I don't think so. I I mean my little personal theory is that um a lot of people are on the spectrum are just a little bit more sensitive to stimulus, whether that be audio or tactile, or is even like both my son and I are uh feel way, way better eating eating gluten-free. Ah we're not celiac or anything, but just like those things, or it's on the list of like, hey, that can be one of those, or high fructose corn syrup, you know, those stuff that probably isn't good for any of us, but uh we just can't quite handle the same way.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

And so it it's good to know things that you can easily avoid that make a real difference in how you feel.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

That's yeah. I mean, it's kind of like that piece that fell into place. Like I didn't start eating gluten-free until it came up for him, actually, and with hit all of his stomach problems, and then it just kind of came up. So, again, those pieces of life that just now explain themselves.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

A lot of uh a lot of autistic folk that I have met over the years really struggle to find employment, to find the career that really um is like their dream job. Um, and I know you have a career that's important to you. Could you share something about that?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah, I've uh spent a long time in the software development world first in programming. And then um the last several years I've been doing IT security, mostly a lot focusing on applications, people program, you know, making sure trying to do our best to make sure there's no data breaches. And then recently working for an AI company has been just phenomenal. I love learning and that. So um it's worked out pretty well for me, but I see those moments where I struggled and as well in those, and I think it could have gone bad. It's uh it was almost on the edge of going bad, you know. And it's not because again, that panic, you go from like zero to a hundred really quick.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Yeah, and some people burn out. But if you have a career that you already love and you're comfortable in, what what a wonderful thing that is.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Now, a lot of us, myself included, don't know a lot about AI. And for some of us, there's some like, oh no, I that that can't be good. You know, it's like our little radar is going, uh, is are the robots taking over the world? And as an author, it's is AI stealing my my work in order to learn how to be I because they're really uh more A than I. Um, but you have uh you have a lot of knowledge about it. And maybe you could share something that would help people like me feel a little better about AI.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah, I mean I find it an incredibly helpful tool. But just like any tool, it has its um, you know, misuses. You can use it wrong and even hurt yourself, just like slam my thumb with a hammer, I don't know how many times and lost the thumbnail, you know, like even unintentionally doing that. Um, and yeah, there are some of those scary pieces out there of like, will it take over the world and all of that? I guess where I come at it and is AI's here to stay. Like by not using it, we're actually putting ourselves at a disadvantage. Um, I would really encourage, especially people on the spectrum, to it's great to have the feedback that it can give you and it can talk to you. Like I built something for my son where he could just be like, I'm frustrated with this. Like, this is what I want to say to somebody. Help me reframe this into like an acceptable way to do it. And I use it sometimes because that's like I said, that stress is under the hood. Um, I've learned to have a close personal friend who I can just I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna vent to you. And this is so that I can go and do it in a good way with other people. But AI can be that, can be that for us. But you know, you want to make sure that it really is giving you the good advice. Don't just take the first thing that it says, ask it, are you sure? And uh like, you know, if I was asking about something to say on here, I'd want to say, Is when are you gonna like this if I say that? You know, and just kind of ask that because it's trying to be helpful, but you don't always know, it doesn't always know what help you want. And so there's a lot of training, a lot of giving instructions. It's called prompt engineering. Uh and uh I encourage people to look that up if they haven't. Like giving good prompts is really what's going to get you the most out of AI in today's world. Hopefully, as we get it better, it's getting those better and better.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Okay, prompt engineering.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Prompt engineering.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Yeah. Oh uh before I retired back in the olden days, we had no AI. And there were times when I I was working in a large um school district or a uh department of education, and if sometimes I would write an email and not send it and call my best friend over and say, Read this and tell me if you can tell how angry I really am.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Because I don't want the reader to know how angry I really am, but I want them to have this information and she would read it for me and she'd say, just take out the last sentence, or just take out this adjective, or she'd say, Send it the way it is. They need to hear that. But she was like a human best friend who I could call over from her office. Um, it's not always available. Uh, but back then we had no AI, so there there really was no other option for me except to just send it out and then suffer the consequences.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

But that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Even that for coming over, there's three different responses that she gave you. Sometimes people need to hear something, like you got to just share what's on your mind and that hey, this is the problem. But there's even sometimes a little better way to cash or like to cash.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

I I'm blanking for the word phrasing it differently, rephrase.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Yeah, yeah, and you know, doing it that way, or sometimes it's like, nope, we need a total rewrite. This is just this is good to get out of here. We don't send this, you know. And uh that's up. One reason I have undo on my Gmail, I have 30 seconds to undo a send. I love that. Sometimes it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

I love that. I usually just try not to write the the uh address in until I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Oh, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Because I might accidentally touch the wrong thing. Um, I I am a boomer, but I'm a boomer who has been working with computers for um, you know, since computers were in the workplace, but not with these newer things like AI. So if an autistic person, I'm not autistic, but um I I am a boomer. If someone, maybe like me, wanted to uh get to know AI, what might be uh an easy way to start? What's like AI for beginners kind of a explanation?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Go out and you know, pick one of your major services that are out there and go out and start using it. Figure out which one you feel comfortable with or um which one seems to have a nice UI that works with you. There's a whole bunch of privacy in some of that stuff. If look into it if if you are bothered with it. Obviously, that's the world I live in, and uh, but that's usually for businesses. Um, I don't usually worry too much about that because you know there's just so much information out there, but I'd make sure not to put in like really sensitive information. Like I don't drop my social security number into it. That's right, and that's you can talk in some pretty vague terms. I'm asking for a friend, all of this stuff. Um, just start seeing and then ask like it for feedback. And then, especially as you're starting to use it, especially on if you're on the spectrum, you might not know so much. Get somebody's feedback, just like you said, Wendy. Get that friend to come over and like, hey, is this good? And yeah, you know, and then start coaching it. It usually they learn because it can be like, hey, you I get you wrote that email as the way I run at you to write or I wanted to say it. Like I may be a dictator about this and stuff like that. And some people that works for you, you know, other people and probably us on the spectrum need to learn to pull it back in a little bit. And so, I mean, use it, but use it with caution. Always ask it, are you sure? Always ask it, why did you say that? Like, that's probably the biggest thing I would say. My company talks about upskilling a lot, and that that's what we really need to do with AI, not just get work done faster, but to learn like why does that happen? So you can repeat it, and then you can you can learn from that, you can gain new skills, you can do something better. And you often find out when it asks when you ask why, it'll tell you, like, oh, you want to tell them so that there's no, you know, or you want I want this is us talking, like to get collaboration in that. Like, why did it pick that tone?

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Um so so ask them why. Yeah, are you sure?

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Are you sure? Do you understand my question? It's really like talking to a person, and you can even have interactive conversations, it can quiz you on stuff now. It's just, you know, it's a great tool that's out there. And a lot of people we have um talks, I'll put it actually. Uh, I'll make sure to send it to you. Oh, cool. I'll put it in the chat. There's uh CI forecast, so just the letter C, the letter I, and then forecast, all one word.com. And we have talks from economic experts, AI experts, general, like, hey, let's treat people better experts. Like we had Terry Tate on there, Goldie Hahn came on there. Um, my company just hosts these, they're public, a lot of times touching AI and dealing with this. We get all sorts of people on there, people who are scared about it, people who are excited about it, you know, all ends of, or somebody who's just looking and um lots of good talks. We just had General Petraeus on there to talk about some of the big situations around recent events and everything. Uh, he was one of the commanders um in some of our big initiatives like Afghanistan and Iraq. So yeah, pretty important people. Yeah, but the cool thing is you get to ask them questions live. So you can submit questions ahead of time, you can ask them, and there is stuff for anybody. Wendy, you mentioned being worried about AI. Well, we had two well-known journalists on there. Um, I'm blanking on their name. Rose was one of them, and they came on and talked about how AI can help and how AI can hurt and their worries about that. We had the author of Wednesday on there talking about the same thing. We had uh Michael Uslan, creator of uh producer of so of all the Batman movies, the early Batman movies. He was talking about the same thing with how do you do comic books now? It's a challenge, and I think I encourage people to be out there um talking about this stuff, autistic people, especially, because we worry, we focus on something like the fact that it could robots and stuff becomes a huge thing for us. So take in this information and don't just when you're talking with people, don't just tell them like robots are gonna take over. Just ask the question again. Learn to ask these questions or learn better, express your your emotions on it. I'm worried about robots taking over. And what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 16:53

And getting the feedback.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah, because you know, you you say robots are gonna take over, you're gonna get in an intellectual debate about if that's actually happening or not, or well, maybe not now. You know, maybe. Um, but I'm worried is just how I'm feeling. Nobody can really argue with how you're feeling.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Okay. Now, just if we have any listeners who are like me, back at the beginning of this question, you said to try different ones.

unknown 17:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

I don't know how to do that. Uh what are the different ones? What would I type into my search engine in order to try different AI?

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Well, not to exclude any, but I'll just mention some of them. Chat GPT is one. Okay, I have heard of that one. You've heard of ChatGPT probably. Google has that's OpenAI has that. Google has a lot of it. Google has Gemini. Gemini. Um, there's a company called Anthropic that has Claude. Claude. Okay. It has a whole bunch of different backers. And then Microsoft has their co-pilot. Okay. A lot of these you end up using even if you don't know it. This is the other thing about AI. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

I've had this happen.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

And and uh and I'm glad that people are working to um to correct this because I have at times asked a question, and the first thing that pops up is one of the AI, and I won't mention their name, but it's one that pops up on the computer. And it gave me a couple of times it gave me an answer that I knew it to be wrong. It wasn't, I was looking for a different, you know, it gave me um something connected to it. Okay, I'll just tell you. I was watching um a bluey episode, the cartoon Bluey. Okay. And the the one with the um where she wanted to eat the uh the dessert. Now I'm blanking on the name of the dessert, Pavlova. But they her parents wanted her to meet to eat edamame beans, and she said she didn't want to, but she had a really cute way of mispronouncing edamame like emadani or debamame. And I couldn't remember how bingo said edamame. So I asked the computer, and the computer told me uh in the Bluey TV show, the character of Bingo pronounces uh edamame as Pavlova. And that was just wrong. Right. But but I should have asked a follow-up question, I think. I just thought, oh no, I just don't want to look at any AI because they don't know what they're talking about. But what follow-up question? What should I have said when they gave me a wrong answer?

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I mean, you can question it. You're like, no, I think that those are two different things on the show, and it might answer that. Oh, I think we're so used to computers giving us acting like calculators, you know. I put in two and add two, and it always is gonna give me four.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I would think of AI as more a very eager person who's always gonna give you an answer, and they're gonna guess what answer you want. Um and so that's another thing to try out. I didn't mention grok, that's another one out there. There's a lot of places like they have their own personalities, each one of these a little bit. And you can tell it also, hey, I want you to be a little nicer, a little gruffer, or or this stuff. But um interesting. Yeah, but right now it's just like you or I, it's so interesting to think like what is knowledge? Do we know something? I don't know. I think we just guess, you know, sometimes we're really certain on it.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

And yeah, and sometimes we're wrong too.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

And sometimes we're wrong. Even things I I think I'm certain on, I'll get wrong, or I just didn't know context, or I forgot it, or misspoke. Um that's what the compute that's what AI can do now. So it's no longer a computer that's always gonna give you the right answer, it's gonna give a answer, and these large language models, which are not all of AI, there's tons of other AI than people are starting to look at that. Um this these are coming with the they just have taken in all of the language that they can and are trying to say, here's how I see a lot of people responding in this situation. And they'll put their own their own bent on it too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

If um but a wrong answer isn't the end of the line with AI, yeah, it's the beginning of an interaction um where things could get better. But I think we need to be aware to not accept it as if it's an uh you know, calculator. The answer is for, to not just accept everything that AI says.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Um Yeah. I mean, just like me on this podcast or the stuff that I found that works to help me cope with autism. And some of it I've done over the time, and some of it as I'm learning, I'm doing more as a practice now. I do a lot of mindfulness. I do a lot of just gratitude centering myself and like okay, take a breath, the world's collapsing, but I can what can I be grateful for? Or it feels like the world's collapsing, you know. And um, but like maybe that doesn't work for you, you know. And it's not people try to do this with autism, and it's a spectrum, and we're all unique and different. There, these are toolbox tools that are in a toolbox that you can take out and you can see if it works for you. Give it a try, don't just throw it away, F1. But I don't have all the answers to this, and nobody is going to peep, but that's hard for us on the spectrum because we like to see things as black and white. We like to have that path. And I think it's a lot of times because we've messed up so many times. We've misstepped and been just hit down pretty hard because people don't realize how difficult it is for us to necessarily pick up on a social subtlety or distinguish between all of the information, everything we're seeing. We focus on something and say something that's almost totally wacky because it's true given this one piece that we're focusing on.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

Yes. And that that is so important, and not everyone is aware of, you know, it's like your autistic friend might be working twice as hard just to stay in one place. Now, you you are uh a a career person without an autistic career man, you are an autistic father, and you're an autist uh father of an autistic son. Um, what advice do you have for people, our listeners who are right now where you were back at the time of the pandemic? They're just wondering, am I autistic? I think I am, or someone just told me I am. What advice would you have for them at this point?

SPEAKER_00 23:58

I think the biggest is you're doing the best that you can right now. And this is true for almost anybody in life. When you look at them, I had a counselor tell me this, and it it took a little bit because I like to see things as black and white. Like, there's very few people who are like truly trying to do wrong. You know, they saw a situation and they're like, I clearly see what I believe is right and wrong, and I'm gonna do the wrong thing here. From their perspective, they're doing the right thing and they're doing the best they can at it at that moment. And I think that's the biggest thing that we need to hear on the spectrum is um, you know, I don't care if you're succeeding like me at some of these careers, or you're struggling to start that career, or you're at a place where your career's crumbling because you panicked one moment and yelled something and you got fired, you know. Is at that moment, you were even at that panic moment, you're doing the best that you can right now. It's not that we can't learn to cope and to do better and to quote unquote fit in. Um and that's just because you know, society is a big thing, and we need to at least fit in within within the parameters, and society can also have their parameters stretched a little bit and understand.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

But like whether you had a great day or whether you blew it, and this is true for everyone, you are a human being, a wonderful, beautiful human being, and you did the best that you could that day.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

And yeah, yeah, it's hard. It's hard, but it's so beautiful, and it's important for people to hear. What you said about trying to fit in, but also the parameters need to change to allow people to fit in, reminded me of a quote, I can't remember who said it, but they they said the problem with trying to fit a square peg into a round hole isn't that it's hard work, it's that when you do it, you destroy the peg.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

And we don't want to destroy the square pegs. We kind of would rather that society would make corners open for them so that they can fit in and still be themselves.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

I absolutely agree. We want to, and I love where society's going, where regardless of who you are, we can accept and start that we're all humans and we're all trying. Um that's in fact what I talked to. I know Joe Sannek put you and I together. I talk with him all the time. I've thought about starting up a podcast called like someone like me. He came up with that. I came up with let's build something together.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

You know, I like both of those titles.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Yeah, building something together came from um actually uh I mentioned I'm I I've worked as a pastor and like the old testament when they David built the temple, like this one uh people. He actually had people from all of the countries all over the place, even the ones they didn't get along with helping to do it. And that was a really cool thing that you know, we don't have to get along, we don't have to agree necessarily to treat each other well and do something amazing together.

SPEAKER_02 27:27

Yes. That is yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

And if you disagree with somebody, that doesn't make them totally useless either, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Right, right. And that's very hard, especially in difficult times in our life and in our history. It's so hard to keep the openness uh alive. And that's an important part of being human.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

I really hope that when you get your podcast up and running, you'll come back and be a guest again and talk about that here.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

I would love to have you back. Trying to uh actually get on a little bit of more talking episodes and get my name out there a little bit more. I think I've learned a lot about this. Um I mean, I think one of the reasons I succeed is is obsession too. I got obsessed with figuring out why I was missing something. Yes, you know, why did you know? I thought a parent one time was joking around and telling me not to do something, and they were totally serious and actually upset. And like I joked back, and like they in no uncertain terms told me that is not respectful, you know what you would normally do at that point. And um, and rightly so, in that like I do need to learn that, but I just went downstairs and sat there was at their house for like half an hour or an hour. Like, how did I do that? How did I blow that, you know? And um, you know, those those moments made me want to figure all of that out, and I think that's what has made me succeed is I became part of my obsessions and where I've put everything to is figuring out how people work.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Yes, and there's been a lot of change over time, and you know, and I I think a lot of our listeners have similar stories where they thought they were reading the room and then they learned, and then they couldn't stop thinking about what they did wrong, what they should have done, you know, 20 years later.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Um, I remember all of my my mistakes in life. I have a really good memory.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

And people are like, oh, it's so great. Like in college, I could memorize stuff. And I'm like, but at the same time, I don't forget a mistake that I do. Yeah. I can tell you stuff all the way back to childhood of the mistakes I've made.

unknown 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

I guess my hope for you and for our listeners is that um, and for me, is that we can all learn to forgive ourselves because we all deserve that forgiveness. So I'm so glad you were here, John. And um I I am looking forward to uh hearing more about your next project. Yeah. And uh and thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Thank you. Thank you a lot, Wendy. This has been really fun talking with you.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

It's been great. I learned a lot about AI from John Burke. For one thing, I learned that one bad experience with AI, where I got an answer I knew was wrong, does not mean I should quit trying to make it work better for me. John recommends that we try different AI platforms like ChatGBT, Gemini, Copilot, and so many more. See which one you feel most comfortable with. Then don't just accept the first answer you get. It's okay to challenge it. Ask follow-up questions like, are you sure? And how do you know? There's a lot to learn about AI. And many ways it can be helpful in solving important problems. Thank you for joining us in this fascinating conversation with John Burke. If you enjoyed this episode of Amplifying Autism, I hope you'll subscribe, leave a review, and share this with your friends and followers. Your support helps us reach more people just like you, whether late-diagnosed autistic adults, people who care about them, and everyone who's ever wondered if they might be autistic themselves. I'm Wendella Whitcomb Marsh, looking forward to next time. You've been listening to Amplifying Autism, celebrating the voices that shape a more understanding world. Don't miss the next episode. More stories, more insight, and more voices that matter.