Finding Peace for Neurodivergent Families with Guest Janeen Herskovitz

In this episode, Wendy speaks with Janeen Herskovitz about supporting neurodivergent families, building healthier relationships, and creating peace at home.

Janeen is a licensed mental health counselor and founder of Puzzle Peace Counseling in Jacksonville, Florida. As the parent of two autistic adult children, she brings both professional experience and lived experience to her work helping neurodivergent families reconnect and communicate more effectively.

This episode explores the meaning behind “Puzzle Peace,” reframing the puzzle piece symbol to represent the many parts of a family learning to work together. Janeen also discusses self-identification, autistic enthusiasm, and the importance of rejecting shame in a world that often misunderstands neurodivergent people.

Takeaways:

• Sharing your enthusiasms with others is a form of connection and love. Listening to someone talk about what they care about also deeply matters 
• Self-identification is valid, especially when diagnosis is inaccessible
• You are trying hard enough; neurodivergent people are not “lazy”

About Janeen Herskovitz:

Janeen Herskovitz is a licensed mental health counselor in Florida and the owner of Puzzle Peace Counseling, LLC. She earned her Bachelor’s degree in Special Education from Rowan University and her Master’s degree in Mental Health Counseling from Webster University.

Janeen and her husband, Joe, have two autistic adult children. Through her counseling practice and podcast, Autism Blueprint, she helps neurodivergent families build more peaceful and supportive relationships.

Website: puzzlepeacecounseling.com
Podcast: autismblueprint.com
Patreon: Patreon.com/autismblueprint
YouTube: @autismblueprint

About Your Host:

Wendela Whitcomb Marsh, MA, RSD, is an award-winning author, TEDx speaker, and host of Amplifying Autism. Though not autistic herself, Wendy has dedicated her career to supporting the neurodivergent community. She is the founder of Adulting While Autistic and helps late-diagnosed autistic adults find clarity and community. 

Books Available on Amazon

Website: wendelawhitcombmarsh.com
Instagram: @wendela.w.marsh
Adulting While Autistic: @adultingwhileautistic 

Join the Newsletter: https://forms.aweber.com/form/49/591191449.htm

Thank You for Listening:

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it. Your support helps us reach more late-diagnosed autistic adults and those who care about them. 

YouTube: @AmplifyingAutism

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

This is Amplifying Autism, where every voice matters and every story shines. Join us as autistic authors, professionals, and trailblazers share their journeys, real stories, and real insight from those changing the world, one conversation at a time. Welcome to Amplifying Autism, where we share stories and insights that matter. I'm your host, Wendell of Whitkin Marsh, but you can call me Wendy. If you're a late-diagnosed, high-masking autistic or otherwise neurodivergent person, or you think you might be, or you care about someone who is, then you've come to the right place. Today we have a guest with a unique perspective as a professional, ally, and parent. Janine Herskowitz is a licensed mental health counselor with a BA in special education and a master's in mental health counseling. She's been married to her husband Joe since 1995, and together they have two autistic adult children. That's something we have in common. Janine owns a private practice, Puzzle Peace Counseling, in Jacksonville, Florida, which helps neurodiverse families live more peaceful lives. Her podcast, Autism Blueprint, covers a variety of topics surrounding autism in the home. I've had the pleasure of guesting with Janine a couple of times, and I appreciate her wisdom and insight. Janine, welcome to the podcast. I've given you a brief introduction.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Oh, that's wonderful. Wendy, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Well, one thing I'd like to talk about. I'm sure you're aware that for many autistic adults, the puzzle piece uh image uh is is a negative one for them because they are saying, Well, I'm not I'm not a puzzle to be solved. There's no piece missing in me. But you flip that script in your practice name, puzzle piece, P-E-A-C-E. What does that mean for you and the families you work with?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

That is a great question. And um, yeah, so when I created um puzzle piece counseling back in 2011, um and I was an autism parent at the time, I wanted something so that parents would know this is kind of the niche, you know, that we're in the specialization. And at that time, the puzzle piece was the symbol. I've never looked at it as a missing piece. I've always looked at the puzzle piece symbol, you know, just in mental health in general, as far as um saying there's nothing wrong with you, but we can make more of peace, P-E-A-C-E, in our lives, um, by looking at all the aspects of our lives that go together, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

It does. And I I'm picturing uh the families that you work with, each family member is like a piece that can come together in peace. Not like the autistic one is the problem, but like it's a family unit that comes together. Is that what it's like when you work with your families?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I am so glad you said it that way. It's absolutely true. It's, you know, it when someone in your home is diagnosed with autism, it's um it's a big adjustment, you know, whether they're a level one or a level three, it's a very big adjustment. And um, I wanted to create a space where I started at first for parents. Um, at that time, um, the levels of autism weren't diagnosed the way they are now. So it was just really just you had autism or you didn't. And here was the criteria. Um, since then it's become more of a spectrum and more of um more nuanced, I'd say. Um, and no matter what you're dealing with, there's differences that enter your home. There's a new way that you have to have compassion for your family member, and there's new ways that you have to interact with them, you know, whether it's a child or a spouse.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Okay. Oh, and speaking of a child and spouse, uh, can you tell us about your own family's journey into discovering that you were an autism family? How did that, how did that come about for you?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, absolutely. So our journey started back in um 2001. My son was diagnosed um with severe autism at the time is what they call it. Um, he was limited in verbal ability. The only words that he spoke at that time were some scripts from movies and things like that. And um, and at the time I didn't see that as communication. Now I realize that that's a communication uh modality that he uses, right? Um, but back then I just knew that my son, who uh regressed, um, he was meeting milestones and then started to regress. Um I have since learned that that is something that can happen as the brain develops, that regressive autism is a thing. Um, it's not necessarily caused by anything, but it happens. Um, and so I was dealing with that while having a new baby. So my daughter was um just born when Ben turned two. Um, so that was not not fun because my son couldn't stand the idea of a baby crying. So I would have, I was just telling my husband the story last night too, Wendy, and it was such a moment for us because he never, I never told him this before because I never really had a need to, right? He's at work all day, I'm home with the babies. It's just never really come up that I wouldn't be able to be in the same room with the baby, my daughter Rebecca, and my son Benjamin, who was two. Um I didn't know what it was like to have two babies, so I just kind of thought, oh, this must be what it's like. This must, this is really hard. The two-year-old runs out of the room every time they bring in the baby because he's afraid the baby's gonna cry. And it was um too much for him. You know, he would have a meltdown every time the baby cried. And you know, as a mom, you start to wonder, is it me? Sure. You know, like I'm gonna be able to do it. Right? No, no, it wasn't, by the way. Um, not caused by parenting. Um, but I at the time, I mean, I may be like what, 28? I've got two babies, I'm newly married, you know, we're just like trying to figure this out. And as a parent, the first thing that you do though is look at yourself and go, What am I doing wrong? What could I be doing differently? Um, and I don't want to sound like, you know, back in my day, but I'm gonna, we didn't have the internet like we have it now. I mean, it was just starting out, and any deep dives that you did on the internet, you'd find a few things, but not not like it is now. So, um, so that was really hard and we had to adjust. Um, my daughter has since been diagnosed, um, and she was diagnosed later in life. So um my kids are now 26 and 28. Um, they both live at home, I'm happy to say. And I'm actually um, we actually really like it uh with both of them living at home. So um we don't use the words failure to launch in our house. Thank you. We don't either. Yeah, no, no, because um we're just all helping each other out. Um my husband has ADHD, he's also neurodivergent. Um, and uh I've been told by my niece that I think I'm neurotypical, but I'm probably not. But I do consider myself, for all intents and purposes, neurotypical, and I have a special place in my heart for um for neurodivergent people. Um and uh and the LGBTQ community also, just because a lot of the autistic community falls in, you know, they there's a like a Venn diagram that's yes close to being a circle, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah, the two spectrums just overlap so much.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I love that, yes. But yeah, I hope that answers your question about kind of my journey.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Oh, I I love it, and I see a lot of similarities. I'm remembering my own child raising years. Um, so you've got a practice, you've got a family, you've got a podcast. Right now, what are you most excited about sharing? What's what's the thing that you, you know, maybe what's up next for you or what is just your your passion that you would like to tell people about?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Yeah, so um, you know, I've just been so struck um by the lack of kindness and compassion over the past year. And it doesn't matter about sides as far as I'm concerned right now. I have people that I love that I don't agree with, but I think um what I've learned during this year is to um really focus on the hope and focus on community. And so we're creating a community on our autism blueprint um Patreon Discord where families can, you know, you well, you can sign up for for free and get updates on kind of what we're doing at Autism Blueprint with the community and with the podcasts and all of that. Um and then we're gonna have breakout groups and Discord rooms. So we're just getting that off the ground. And um, like most autism families, it takes me twice as long to do anything because I am a mom, right? I am still a mom and I am still taking care of of my child, um, even though he's an adult, he needs help from me. Um so you know, we we're making a community there, and um, and you can find that. I think it's patreon.com slash autism blueprint. Check it out. Join us.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

That's wonderful. Um, and you mentioned Discord. Uh in in my family, I think it's the autistic people who are on Discord, and I don't know anything about Discord. Is it like an autism friendly or just are autistic people drawn to it, or is that just a coincidence in my family?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, I I find um, you know, there's certain things that uh I find that the autistic people in my life really gravitate to. Um, Discord and Reddit more so than other forms of socialization. I think it just fits the way their brain works better. Okay. Yeah, I'm having to learn it, so I'm learning it. Um, but it's been a learning curve for me because I'm used to more um Facebook social media and stuff like that. But Discord groups give you an opportunity to meet with like-minded people on subjects that you're passionate about, right? So what we call special interests, right? Or um I like the word enthusiasms. I think Barry Present talks about um enthusiasms, which I think is so nice. And they can be in these groups and talk about enthusiasms. Um, our autism blueprint group is more for parents and caregivers. Um, we're going to open up groups for people on the autism spectrum, but my focus was mostly on parents, caregivers, teachers, educators, therapists, because um, you know, it's important that we listen to autistic voices, yes, especially if we're not an autistic voice.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Um, so yeah, I just want to get at that in there too. And that's that's why I I love just the idea of community and um and having people come together with a common goal of help helping each other to kind of navigate through life.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

And we all need help, don't we? We all do, absolutely. I love the what you said about enthusiasms. Um, you know, it doesn't have to be like just an autistic thing because don't we all have our enthusiasms? For sure, although I think my autistic people is can feel them so deeply and get so much joy out of their enthusiasms. Um, and and I I uh I love that.

SPEAKER_01 12:59

I I love to see people get so excited. Well, and it's such a personal thing for them, you know. Um in my office, when I treat families living with someone that's autistic, very often the autistic person will say, nobody's interested in in what I'm showing them or sharing with them.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

And we have to remember that our family members with autism, they're people, you know, they're they're not just problems to be solved. They want to share their lives with us, but it might just look a little bit different than something we would share with them.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

But you know, their interest is if it's interesting to them, then it would be great if that could be interesting to their family members, or if they could at least devote some time to let me sit down and listen to you talk about whatever it is for this amount of time, and then I have to go cook dinner.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yes, yes, you can definitely put limits around it and boundaries around it. I mean, when my daughter was younger, now looking back, I go, Oh yeah, autism. Um, when she would be into like a video game, she'd be like, Mom, play this with me. You know, I remember playing like Mario Kart for hours and you know, and not knowing how to how to end it, right? And be like, okay, I'm done now.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Um, so yeah, putting boundaries around it, I like that. And that that tells the person you're important to me. Yes. But then I'm important to me too.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Yeah. But they know that you're there to listen. You just maybe not all day long, but but you'll be there for them. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

And they'll take it very personally. I have people um that come into my office that will be so angry that their friend or their husband or whoever won't just give them five minutes, you know, of their time to check out this one thing, you know, because it's part of them almost.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yes. Yes, it's felt so deeply. Yes. And yeah, and I think I think if we love them, we should give them that time. And like you said, again, not it's not unlimited. We do have to do other things, and we have other interests. Yeah. But to share the interest of someone that you love is a loving act, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah, yeah. In fact, um, you know, I've had some training in uh what's called Gottman family therapy. Yes. Gottman couples. Yes, and um, and that's where they have you start, you know, as a clinician, is um they call them love maps, right? Knowing what the person that you love is interested in is a connection point. And so that's a place we can always connect with our autistic loved ones because there will always be something that they're passionate about, even if it's um, you know, playing with a toothbrush or you know, whatever you know, there were things that my son he was obsessed with. Uh I don't want to say obsessed with. I'm gonna change that. He was enthusiastic about stealing my chip clips. Oh, so any chip clips that we had, he would take them and walk around with them and take them apart and stick them places, and so they're kind of cool, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:13

They they you can make them like talk like little puppets, they've got magnets usually.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Right, right, right. They have magnets. So one year he got a stocking full of chip clips, he was happy as could be for Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

That is so perfect because he didn't he wouldn't have wanted all the little stocking stuffers that the stores are trying to get us to buy, you knew him.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Yes, yes, and then that helps our loved ones feel seen.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Like, ah, mom's you know that's so important to feel seen. For sure. Yeah. So um, if you could give a message to all of the newly diagnosed, you know, uh high masking people who are just finding out, wow, I've been autistic all along and I never knew it. This changes everything. Um, but they maybe don't know where to go with that. Uh what kind of message or insight would you be able to offer to them as they're trying to navigate their way in a in a world that was not set up for them?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yes, yes, and I think that's the key. I mean, I've had um several adults, uh, women in particular, that have come to me to say, um, I've always felt like I've I'm an alien, right? I don't belong or um I'm misunderstood all the time. And the most heartbreaking part about that is that people often tell me that everyone in their life thinks they don't try hard enough. Oh so I think I would want everybody to know if if you're fitting into that criteria, if that sounds familiar to you, self-diagnosis is valid.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Yes, it really is 100%.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

You know yourself better than anybody, and nobody wants this diagnosis. You know, it it's not like it's uh it's the latest thing and everybody's gonna have it. It's not. Yeah, actually, it's it's a real struggle for a lot of people, and but there's also a lot of gifts. So I don't want to make this too long as I'm making it long already. But I feel like what I would want to say to them is uh trust your instinct, and you can trust your instinct. Um the people that have misunderstood you, that's not about you, that's about them. And you are trying hard enough.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

That's beautiful. And that's I think that's so important for people to hear if they've been called lazy and said you're not trying hard enough. You know, that's just not true. So uh is there anything else that I haven't asked you that you wish that I had, or uh something else that you'd like to talk about that we haven't covered yet?

SPEAKER_01 19:02

I don't think so. I just I'm I'm really excited about the work that you're doing, Wendy, because I've followed you for a while and I know you followed me and we've become friends, and yes, it's just so wonderful and such an honor to be here with you and to be asked to be here. Um, this community is is great. It's filled with a lot of really wonderful people. So um I would just want to encourage people to, you know, keep listening to Wendy's podcast. The more you learn about yourself and your loved ones, the easier this gets.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Well, thank you. And it has been such a joy to have you here because, you know, I have become, you know, we've become friends through your podcast. And it's kind of nice that to have one too. I've I've learned from you. Um people are gonna want to get in touch with you and learn about the different places, like the, you know, why don't you just let them know how they can find you and your your practice and uh and your podcast?

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Sure. Um you can go to autismblueprint.com, which is connected also to puzzlepiececounseling.com. Um, you can find the podcasts on there, you can find my practice on there. Um, and you can also find us on wherever you get a podcast Spotify, Apple, Podcasts, Pandora, we're on all of them.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Wonderful. Well, thank you again for being here, and uh thank you for listening, and uh we'll see you next time. Bye. I loved this conversation with Janine Herskowitz. There were three things that in this episode that really stood out for me. First, Janine reminds us that there's nothing wrong with having enthusiasms and wanting to share them with the people that we care about. We used to call them special interests, but enthusiasm just sounds right, doesn't it? Listening to your people tell you about the things they're enthusiastic about is a gift of love. Second, self-identification is valid. Not everyone can get a full clinical diagnosis. So trust yourself and your own self-knowledge. And third, you are trying hard enough. Don't let anyone make you feel that you're lazy or that you should try harder. You're doing the best you can. And then you're a typical world that was not designed for your unique brain. Janine Herskowitz reminds us to celebrate how far we've come. I hope you'll tune into the next episode of Amplifying Autism. I know I'm looking forward to it. You've been listening to Amplifying Autism, celebrating the voices that shape a more understanding world. Don't miss the next episode. More stories, more insight, and more voices that matter.