Kim & Em vs EVIL
Two armed and dangerous women do battle with the forces of cinema villainy.
A movie podcast hosted by two female film aficionados who love nothing better than getting under the skin of famous movie villains to discuss whether or not these 'baddies' are just plain evil... or should we cut them some slack? Could the villains actually be the victims? If so, what is the true root of evil in the thrillers, horrors and action movies we all know and love?
Kim & Em vs EVIL
EPISODE 13: OBSESSION
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We're back after a summer break with the movie people have credited as "the film that saved cinema"; labelled "the best horror of the year"; and even lauded as "the best film of the year".
Grand statements, but Obsession broke many industry records with its meteoric rise into movie stardom and success. Studios now, of course, are all clamouring for the next Obsession.
Now that the dust has settled, Kim and Em talk about why Curry Barker's breakthrough film is so zeitgeist, why the new horror villain seems to be your average bloke, and – of course – the vagina dentata theories! Sink your teeth into this episode – and don't forget to let us know what you think...
Two women, countless villains. You have entered Kim and M versus Evil.
SPEAKER_02Hello, villain enjoyers, evil obsessives, bad guy and gal lovers. Yes, we're back with another episode, and this time we're all over a new horror release that everyone is obsessed with right now, and that is Obsession.
SPEAKER_01Obsession. A film like this comes out, and I immediately think, how is this name not already taken? I sometimes I think, God, that's a great name, but surely someone's thought of that before. Anyway, of course it has been taken. So so um, yeah, there are some notable pre-existing films called Obsession, and they all have exactly nothing to do with one another, uh, narratively at least. This is not a remake of anything, it's a completely original story. Um, but all the films do explore the theme of obsession in some way.
SPEAKER_02Of course, there's Brian De Palmer's 1976 movie about a man who falls in love with a woman who looks exactly like his dad dead wife. Dad wife? Dad wife is something else.
SPEAKER_01Why is a dad? When you marry your dad.
SPEAKER_02That's not a different film. There's a Daniel Craig film called Obsession from 1997 in which he plays a stonemason who has a love affair with an organist. Really specific, weird job. Who's also dating a biologist?
SPEAKER_01I thought this was so funny. The stonemason. Why are the jobs why are these jobs important? But anyway, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And an organist. Watch a film, find out. Uh yeah, and there's a 1949 film that is also called Obsession, aka The Hidden Room, about a doctor who chains up his um his wife's American lover in the cellar. Although obsessive, but not the film we're talking about today. Boxing Helena, that's not even called Obsession.
SPEAKER_01Well, there are parallels, yes, with that um film and this. Big parallels. Uh, but uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's me again. Um, but anyway, yeah. This film is about a guy called Baron that they interestingly nicknamed Bear. Yeah. So it's Baron Bear Bailey, we'll get into that. Yeah. Um he's played all the casts are phenomenal. Um by Michael Johnston. Yeah, cool, young kind of newcomers. Yeah. Maybe he is he less of a newcomer, Michael Johnston. I only say that because I think he was cast first. Yeah. And then um the insanely good actress. Indy Navaretti, who everyone knows you're going to see a lot more of, she was doing chemistry tests with him, so I know he came first. Anyway, um, so Bear buys a novelty toy known as a one wish willow that grants just one wish. He wishes that the woman he is obsessed with, Nikki, his friend and co-worker, loves him, and this is important more than anyone in the fucking world. And I quote this because it is significant, like it's a major part of the reason the wish went bad. Yeah, we were talking about the wording being important. Um, in any, and I think almost in any wish story, it's almost yeah, it's it's like make sure you get it right because you might wish wish wrongly.
SPEAKER_01However, I do sometimes think there is no way to get it right because it is destined to go bad or designed to go bad. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, um, well, anyway, the wish willow works, but in a typical genie in a bottle kind of uh style, or even a deal with the devil style, it doesn't go exactly to plan. And um the old saying, be careful what you wish for, plays out with tragic and bloody consequences. I mean, it is an old we we know it is an old horror trope. Um, not just in horror, be careful what you wish for is a fantastic trope. It's always got a moral sting in the tail. Um, I guess to teach us to be grateful for what we already have. Um but but also in terms of your your the the the change that you make with your wish has consequences on other people and other people's happiness and sense of self, in especially with this film.
SPEAKER_01Yes, certainly. But uh director Curry Barker is another horror filmmaker transitioning from comedy to horror, uh, following in the footsteps of Get Out and Us director Jordan Peel and Barbarian and Weapons director Zach Kregger. Uh, but both genres do actually have a lot in common. There's a book I studied at university called Laughing Screaming that explores exactly that thing. Okay. So it works, historically, it's worked. Um they do have a lot in common and um our response to both and the things that they explore. Um but actually in this film and in Jordan Peele's films, there is humour present, albeit pretty black often to be found. Um and and then and I'm I re-watched this film and thought there are some strange feeling moments that have a strong comedic tinge that actually unsettles you and makes you feel off balance. Um, particularly interactions with the with the guy in the shop, even the woman in the shop early on, and um the one wish willow representative on the phone.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna say that's a that's that's a clear kind of I think the the sheer sort of casual response that um he has when um yeah bear phones up customer support. Why would you have customer support for a stick that you break in half? But anyway, it's very good.
SPEAKER_01But everyone involved is like it's a bit like Yeah, we don't really do that.
SPEAKER_02He goes, Um, can I have the wish? Interestingly, he says, Can I have the wish altered? I think is the word he used. We will get into this a little bit. Not reversed. Yeah, not reversed, not stopped. Um and he goes, Yeah, we don't really do that. And he, you know, it doesn't sound like a joke, it's just funny. I think it's just the um the delivery of it.
SPEAKER_01The lackadaisical kind of nature of this response to it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's so well that's what's good about the one wish willow in itself is seemingly it seems so silly and trivial. It's not like a magic talisman, like a you know, like a monkey's paw, no, or which obviously it is a film that he was based on Tree House of Horror and the influences.
SPEAKER_01And the three people that uh that are involved in um the One Wish Willow selling of it, the two shopkeepers and the guy on the phone, they're all sort of like, yeah, well, we know it works, and you're you know, often the woman is all like, yeah, people complain all the time because it goes bad, or it's weird. They know like this happens. The second guy he talks to in the shop later on is like um um, yeah, I've had my wish. No idea what he wished for.
SPEAKER_02Well, exactly. Um, but yeah, just quickly on that, somebody asked him, so is one wish willow kind of the idea of something like a cursed object where you know it is a like a lesson to be taught. And Curry Um Barker said, No, absolutely not. You you can beat the wish, and he says he pointed to that character, the guy in the shop selling them, and he goes, Yeah, I've already had my wish, dude, or whatever. I don't know why I went southern there. Um, so it kind of implies that he had his wish, it was fine, it was great, but it you only get one, right? So you can't do it again. But he's certainly not in trouble, he looks fine, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01And in even Ian, I mean he wished in the wording. Well, even Ian wished for a billion dollars and got his billion dollars, and he ended up getting killed for a while.
SPEAKER_02But it just I know it's almost like it's set in a very real world that's suddenly unfeasible.
SPEAKER_01I didn't wonder why that happened because it's really just it's probably it's probably dollar bills, one dollar bills and a billion of them because of the wording. It's like a Harry Potter moment. Why would it not just be why would it not just deposit that into his bank account?
SPEAKER_02You know, it's very um it's like a it's almost I don't want to say childlike, but you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01It's like a Harry Potter. It's literal, it's very literal. But also, I mean, I haven't really unpicked that the wording of the um love me more than anyone in the fucking world, other than you know, that's a he's used a swear word, you shouldn't use a swear word in a way. Well, he hasn't said um oh I don't know. But it is it's it's it does suggest that she's that the person doing that loving is gonna be quite single-minded and obsessive.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I think you already did you already mention this that it's partially um inspired by or um the Simpsons episode Tree House of Horror 2, and um uh so obviously The Simpsons is a comedy series, um and that used horror for its comedy, and so there's there's that built into its DNA.
SPEAKER_02He was watching Tree House of Horror because apparently he directed um an episode of Um It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and they were waiting for that to come on, and then Tree House of Horror came on, which and then suddenly he already had the idea. Again, this is where I'm seeing similarities so much now to Midsumar. Midsumar Midsumar which Curry Barker actually does cite. He told them all to consciously, yeah. They absolutely were inspired by Midsumar, um, in terms of the well, kind of in terms of the the concept and the story, but also in terms of the acting and the level of derangement that um derangement that Nikki goes to, the almost the hysteria that she goes to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and do you know what I noticed this morning when I was watching it? Both have this downturned mouth. I so noticed that. Which is which is what uh Florence Pugh uses throughout midsummer. Mine's oh yours is good. Yours is like the Joker. Yeah, but I'm gonna look like that when I'm an old lady. At the end, when um uh in of midsummer, when when Florence Pugh's character Danny um has found her people, found her place, and she her frown turns into a smile, finally. Actually, in this film, they're both smiling at the end because she's they've found each other again, they've fallen in love again.
SPEAKER_02Does Nikki have a wee smile at the end?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they both are smiling at one another. Just before he dies Spoiler alert just before he dies, because she's made that wish on the one wish will have we don't know what the wish was, but we presume No, we don't know.
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah, that's the ending that we need to discuss. All right, well, wouldn't it? So uh we probably should have said definitely, definitely, definitely. Um it's a new film. It's still doing the rounds in the cinema. Um as we record, it's still out there. So please don't listen to this if you want to know what happens in the film, because we are going to discuss it. Yes. So stop if you have to go and watch Obsession. If you've watched it already, welcome! Right. This is full of spoilers, yes. It is, um, and it is a new film, so yeah, I think we should get that across. So another reason uh this film is on everyone's lips right now, um, and I really want to kind of get into this a little bit. Um, it has become an absolute landmark in our genre. Our genre, Kim. It's our genre. We're it we are we are part of the genre. Um, and people are calling it the saviour of cinema, um, which is fantastic. They're also saying um uh is it Gen Z or Zedders, Ziers, Generation Ziers, because it is really the 18 to 25 year old demographic who um I don't know if they intentionally targeted them, but they're the ones that are going to be.
SPEAKER_01No, I've got a I've got a statistic here. 75% of audience members were from the 18 to 34 demographic, 75%.
SPEAKER_02So I thought that's young. Yeah. So it's it's the young'uns, and it's it's great because I guess people were thinking, you know, who is gonna save cinema? Um, it's giving people hope that dwindling box office numbers in recent years finally doesn't mean that cinema is actually dead, which is really good to hear. So uh, and also what I like to think is not only is it just a film that has saved cinema, it's horror that's saved cinema.
SPEAKER_01Well, horror's always done good at the box office, hasn't it?
SPEAKER_02Actually, interesting. Yeah, I will give you a little fact-fact on that as well. Um so cinema isn't dead, and certainly with the success of things like Backrooms, another original film by a fresh young talent, Kane Parsons, suggests that horror is definitely the genre that can be relied upon to attract audiences and make money. That was my I don't gremlins impression.
SPEAKER_01Well, to make money. Oh, what's the name? Doogle, doogle, doogle. Going back to the gremlins.
SPEAKER_02The gremlins, digo, deagle, deagle.
SPEAKER_01Deagle, not deagle, deagle, deagle. Um, I don't have the statistics for backrooms takings to mind, but uh uh to call to mind, but um I'm getting this the success of these two films together is giving me Barbenheimer. Is giving me Barbenheimer vibes. And I can I was trying to come up with a a hybrid name for these, but there's nothing that works that well. But uh I don't know. What do you reckon? Ob Ob rooms?
SPEAKER_02What oh oh I've Barbie's Barbie and back session.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. Back session sounds filthy for some reason. Let's have that one then. We like a bit of filth. All right.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's a lot there are a few films though that are um that are now oh, I've lost all my flipping notes. And you might hear banging, which is fantastic, isn't it? Which is my neighbours doing effing building works. That's exactly what we need right now. Well um, I would also say that uh yeah, Barbarian Weapons, Long Legs, Talk to Me, Um, Smile. A lot of these films are I would say we're in a better place than the 90s. Yeah, for horror. For sure.
SPEAKER_01Uh thank you, A24.
SPEAKER_02A lot of yeah.
SPEAKER_01Gosh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But um, so obsession is it's just breaking loads of records. So, to put you in the picture, it's really rare that a film in its opening weekend, okay. So, say you open and it's your chance to recoup all your money and make profit and pay all your investors back, and you know, all of that stuff. And they used to say, I've got the quote from someone, I have to try and find it, but there's a chap um who I don't know, runs some sort of they look at trends in cinema box office, and he said, quote, I'll try and find the name for you. Um, we used to say that horror opened on a Friday and died on a Saturday, i.e., your opening night is very important, and then it will drop. Obsession, not only did it so it leaped up by God knows how much in its second weekend of opening, so it's a whole weekend later, it went up, and then it went up again. There was another leap in box office sales in its third weekend, and apparently that is almost that just rare. It's incredibly rare, it's practically impossible.
SPEAKER_01One of the only other films that have that has done that is E.T., and apparently it was the last time that that happened was when ET came out, which is crazy, right?
SPEAKER_02Because um that when you think about the marketing campaign of so many films now, like I know it's not horror, but take Take the Devil Wears Prada 2. Oh my god, that was everywhere, you know. Coca-Cola adverts, on on buses, on billboards, you know, interviews with people. This film has been a real, I would say bridged the gap, and I don't think it was intentional. No, um, it's bridged the gap between cinema and social media really well. So it's obviously a word of mouth film. It's a it's a it's snowboard because of social media, I guess, and people's reactions to the film. I mean, it's obviously well made, but I do think, well, why why is this film so resonant? Why is it so zeitgeist?
SPEAKER_01I haven't seen a lot on social media about it personally. That doesn't mean not.
SPEAKER_02There's there's the no no no meme.
SPEAKER_01I haven't seen that.
SPEAKER_02Well, I haven't, I I don't even have TikTok, but um I read and I saw people saying that there's basically people doing their own version of um when Nikki gets up in the the bar that they're at and she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. She just starts going no mad.
SPEAKER_01People are basically just is that where she smashes the glass in?
SPEAKER_02No, I think that's just I don't know if she's because she smashes the head a couple of times, doesn't she? Yeah, she does at the party. This is when she's just with Bear. Okay, and she's like, You've you've ruined the evening now, and goes all wingy. And um, I know that was a direct reference to one of the Jordan Peel uh get out, get out. Yes. Where one of the one of the sort of the the black uh worker maid starts sort of malfunctioning a little bit. Yes. Have we even done a bit of story? We've done a slight I've done a little bit of plot, haven't I? Because a lot of people might might not know this one. We've done the we've yeah, we've we've talked about the plot. So basically all you need to know is that it's making it it's it's got a buzz in terms of it's a great film, but it's got a buzz because it's kind of um it's basically doing huge, huge favours. It's connected to the horror industry. And it's connected with young people, it's connected with young people, um, and it's just phenomenal in terms of its success.
SPEAKER_01It's making millions, millions, and it's beginning. Millions. It's it's become the highest grossing film ever. Uh, for a film with a budget under a million dollars, it's made more than 400 million dollars worldwide so far. Um amazing, yeah, incredible stuff, but um uh good to know that cinema's not dead yet.
SPEAKER_02Weird though, because I think they made it like a year and a half ago. So to sort of have that gap, and then suddenly your success is like Stellar, Interstellar.
SPEAKER_01Yes, anyway, couple of other little bits of trivia. Uh you talked about um Get Out, Indy Navaretti plays Nikki, credited credited influences, Betty Gabriel in Get Out, uh, another character trapped inside a character like hers. Uh, Tony Colette in Hereditary, and Mia Goth in Pearl as inspirations for her performance as Nikki.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know they watched they watched Pearl together and they yeah, they they watched Midsommar. Um the film jumped on the Uncanny Valley makeup trend, which went viral on TikTok to make Nikki appear human, but the effect is to distort her features using makeup like concealer, contouring, and exaggerated proportions. It gives a uh a robot or doll-like effect for um a sort of eerie, artificial, slightly off feeling. Do you know that's I'm trying to quickly that is why people hate clowns? Yeah, because it's because I remember thinking, why? Why is a clown scary? So I looked it up, it's got a really weird specific fear called chlorophobia, and the psychoanalysis of why people are scared of clowns is that um I mean, obviously, clown is quite extreme, but it's uh obviously human, roughly, like it you can see uh mouth and eyebrows, but it's all a bit crazy and exaggerated, and it makes you it basically um it just unnerves you, and I think that's people seem to be liking uh quite subtle horror now, like when you think about smile, it's literally all it is is someone going I can't do it, yeah, doing a sinister smile, and it's that little tingle that you get, it's quite subtle. Yeah, I mean there are extreme scenes in this as well, yeah, and they really jump out. If you saw her doing that disgusting head smashing of um, oh what's the character called? It's the character saying, Yeah, um, it's something lawless. Because I thought is that Lucy Lawless's daughter? No, it isn't. It's not. I thought maybe. Um so the one she's supremely jealous of, yes, Sarah does like Bear. Yes, she yes, she fancies Bear, she's the threat, yeah, and Nikki is yes, just wants to eliminate that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so in a film like The Thing, or you know, especially SFX heavy film, that might not jump out, but in this film where the horror is really subtle and really human and really nuanced, that is why you're like Jesus Christ, during that scene where it's like suddenly a gore moment.
SPEAKER_01So brutal, and she hasn't actually she ha I don't know that I felt at that moment that I that that was expected from her character. I think that was a shock because she hadn't quite levelled it up to being that violent to other people, had she? She'd been quite violent to her.
SPEAKER_02Well, we quite like those shocking knee-jerk moments. We talked about that in Midsommar as well, where again there's all this like relatively normal sort of fear and um sinister stuff going on, and then suddenly, bang, you're hit with something proper gross. Yes, and um, yeah, they're they're that I I think they're good moments, and I guess it shows. How unpredictable she's becoming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I suppose, you know, that jealous that that level of jealousy hit that crescendo because we'd seen it building. We sh we knew that she knew that Sarah was keen on Bear and that we'd already had that scene where he was supposed to kiss her at the party.
SPEAKER_02That's another slight bit of humour, maybe. Yeah. When she just gets her out of the way. It's like in a in a sort of spin the bottle type game.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, and that humour juxtaposed with that the violence, the visceral that sequence where she bashes her head against the side. Yeah, well, and you've said here. And you've got honk, honk, honk, the honkies go. Humour horror.
SPEAKER_02Humour horror. Um Curry Barker's dad apparently provided the Hansel and Gretel monologue. Do you mean isn't that the scene where she's doing a story? Yeah, the party. And she it's incestuous. And she's Well, I think she's saying what's really happening to her as well. It's sort of using that story. Because again, she's saying it with this sort of maniacal smile. Um, and then I'm sure I read somewhere that so there are moments we should probably explain what happens in obsession. Have we even done it? We're not we've done a very basic synopsis, but let's just say very basically. Um, I think we should talk about the characters. Yeah. So we've got Bear.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02I would argue that he's really cute. Almost too cute. Totally disagree. You do, don't you? Ah, I think he's really good looking. That's the only yeah, to me, he would easily get a girlfriend. Anyway, Bear plays a lonely nerd, really, who is typically in love and infatuated with his co-worker, Nikki, who's become who he's basically firmly in the what's it called, friends friend zone. Or friend zone. So Bear is in the friend zone big time. Yeah. Wants to go out with Nikki, cannot muster the courage at all just to ask her out because he's in the friend zone. And but he's he's seen it, he's a nice guy. He's gentle, he's not a threat, he's not a lad. He's he's his you know, you look at his clothes, his you know, his clothing, his tastes, they all work in like a record store, is it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, Sarah's dad's record shop. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So they're like, they're like they're they're nerdy friends, they're they're nice people, they're like people that you would probably know.
SPEAKER_01I don't think anyone's nice except for Sarah. Sarah's nice. His friend's quite funny. I think he's an arsehole. Yeah, he is. He is. He's been shagging I mean, there's nothing wrong with having sex, obviously, and there's nothing wrong with having sex without strings, but it feels weird in this film that it's a thing that Ian and Nikki have been secretly having sex with no no affection or no strings.
SPEAKER_02And I again I don't I anyway, I don't Ian is not cute at all.
SPEAKER_01Why the fuck should shag him? To me, he is initially positioned as the villain. I think the first time you see him on screen, his appearance is uh like goes into traditional villain territory, I think. He's got this greasy, unkempt fringe and these these these these weird beige clothes he wears throughout that make him look awkward and like an outsider, um, like like a like a a weirdo, uh like a traditional kind of horror weirdo that we're not supposed to find. This is my reading, yeah. We're not supposed to find that appealing. Um definitely done something specific with his easy. He's awkward, he's a bit jumpy, he's on edge, he's no good with girls. This this kind of plays into this incel culture idea as well. Yeah, he's involuntary, involuntary, celibate, and lonely. So I'm getting serial killer vibes from this guy from the start. Um he likes cats though, and he's described he's got a cat. And like an old cat lady.
SPEAKER_02Um the cat's sort of significant here.
SPEAKER_01Uh, and also we see him rehearsing a speech that he that he wants to uh recite to the object of his affections, which is awkward and weird, um, who is Nikki. Uh and what he describes uh as his rehearsing is obsession. Um uh he says, I think about you all the time, you're in every song I listen to.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then it's a red flag. That's terrible. Don't ever say that. Don't like don't do not repeat that. Again, it's but it's but it's realistic, and again, I think it the way they've written it, the way Curry's written the dialogue and written the characters, is obviously speaking to Gen Z because dating is so fucking hard now, and I think people the way people relate to each other is getting worse, and you could argue yes, the manosphere is part of that. I don't want to keep referring to the manosphere, blah blah blah, and in selves, but it's obviously it's obviously definitely yeah, it's definitely part of um you know where this film is coming from.
SPEAKER_01I think he's about the male mental health crisis, yeah.
SPEAKER_02He is, however, I do think that he's still painted as a sympathetic character, at first, at least. I'm not saying, I mean, you know, there's loads of nerds out there, it doesn't mean they're all psychos. I love a nerd, don't let me write. Yeah, I know we do. They're the backbone of the country. We're nerds. Um, we're kind of yeah, I'm I'm kind of nerdy. I mean, I it's it's a compliment, really. Um, but yes, I I just think he's not presented as a hateful, leary, violent, aggressive lad. You know, in the same way that I don't know, he reminds me of, like I said, he goes into the it's not a common character trope in horror, but it is in there. The beautiful weirdo. The beautiful weirdo came about in films like Donnie Darko, and that was um Jake Linhall's, I won't bang on too much about it. We've got Wes Bentley, American Beauty, roughly the same time. Um, Wachim Phoenix, am I saying that right? Yeah. Wyakin. Yeah. Definitely, it's that kind of vibe, that kind of look where it's a good-looking geek or nerd who's an outsider, who you feel sorry for. I mean, Donnie Darko, he's fucked up, he sets fire to things. We still think he's really.
SPEAKER_01I don't feel sorry for bear at all. Well, did we mention about the man, the man or the bear?
SPEAKER_02Um, no, so uh I read that I don't again, I would have to double check whether this was a conscious thing from Barker. Curry Barker. Um that Curry Clive Barker. I was gonna say, yeah, I'm thinking Clive now. So some of you might be thinking, why is he called Bear? Um he's nicknamed Bear, and we think a lot of people think that the viral man or bear debate that was started apparently on TikTok in April 2024, in which many women cited and claimed that if they were forced to choose between being alone in the woods with a man or with a bear, they would choose the bear. I mean, there's even t-shirts, isn't there, and and badges saying choose the bear or I choose the bear. Um, so given the themes about, oh, and this is something that's quite important, it's not, I don't, you know, it's not male toxic masculinity so much, but male entitlement. It's that presumption that that they have. So the themes of on male entitlement, um, we think the bear is a rye reference to this online debate. Um, because the filming actually happened in October 2024, a few months after April. So, yeah, it's like October 24. So it took a while to come out.
SPEAKER_01If they know about TikTok trends, they know about like you know, Uncanny Valley Makeup, then they I say they, Curry Barken also knows about the man versus bear debate debate. Here are some more reasons before we move on from Bear why I think he's a total creep through and through. Okay. Before so that I don't miss my chance to talk about it. So, okay. Uh early on we see him stalking Nikki's social media, just as she calls, right? So that's stalker-ish. He could buy Nikki a good vibes slash sunshine in a bottle necklace when he wants to replace her crystal necklace that she says she's dropped down the drain, but instead he gets the one Wish Willow as a gift, which is a strange substitution. Uh, and this, despite warnings from the shopkeeper of complaints, and which he then claims for himself. He doesn't even give it to her. No, he tries to, though. Doesn't he just back out? Well, exactly, he doesn't give it to her. He mentions he's got something for her, and then he doesn't, and then he's sitting in his car and he's like, and she says, she says, if you like me, there's an there's a there's a moment, there's a hint that su or a couple of hints through this film, two or three, several hints even, that suggest she might actually like him anyway. And um and if he were to let things unfold organically, yeah. Um and she says to him, let tell me that if you like me. And he won't. And it's at this point he goes, you know, in his brain, fuck it, I'm gonna I'm gonna make a wish on the one wish will it? And he takes the gift for himself uh and makes a wish, a selfish wish for himself. Um in the sex scene, there's only one sex scene, he doesn't notice she's totally dead behind the eyes, uh, mechanically going through it, um, uh, and making mechanical noises. So essentially, I mean, of course, she's under the spell already, so it is it is rape, there is no real consent there, but he's not truly connected to her or the shared experience, it's totally selfish for him. Um, and then there are various moments through the film where he could um choose to do something different, but instead he keeps trying to keep her within this relationship. Um when he phones the one-wish willow helpline, it isn't because he sees the error of his ways, it's because he wants to make it perfect, he wants to amend the wish.
SPEAKER_02He is basically he recognises straight away that Nikki is acting weird. He's he he vocalizes it, you know, stop acting like this, just please be yourself. So, I mean, I th I think his intentions are good, they're not coming from an evil place. They're they might be selfish, and it plays out really, you know, it all goes horribly wrong. But she obviously is, you know, she turns into an absolute, absolute maniac. But yeah, there's there's a real specific click moment which was directed very carefully, where he's dropping her off, as you've just said, and then she is um at the window and she says, Well, do you have feelings for me? And he there's a moment where he could he could then say yes, actually, let's go for a drink or whatever. And when he says, We're good as friends or something like that, apparently, audiences, especially the male audiences, that's when they go, No, dude, or something. Um, that was your moment. Um, and I know that the director, I keep saying bear, the director Curry Barker was like, he loves just that moment. He says, if people can react that strongly to a scene that's not even um, it's not, it's I mean it's a strong scene, but it's not a horror scene, it's nothing shocking going on. But that moment where everything could have been perfect from then on, that's when it was ruined. But anyway, and then it was interesting because when he breaks the willow, they've got her in kind of um silhouette form. Yes, yeah, so you see her kind of just standing there, and she's not like a sudden zombie, because I had to be really careful, I think, about the directing here. And he said, I don't want you to just be angry and mad. I mean, she's pretty mad. Um, he said, I actually directed her and gave her words like whingy, um, you know, what's the word like, you know, when you're really quite annoying. Yeah. Wingy, annoying, you know, overbearing, all of those things. It had to be like a realistic kind of obsession. Um it's weird though, because I would argue, and he actually said, I don't want you to act possessed. I would argue that there are some scenes where she does very much seem like there's another entity going on, and they do that why, you know, when she's in the corner and suddenly she moves really fast. Yes. Um and there are moments that are crucial where she's in and out of her, for want of a better word, possession, obsession. Um, where when she's sleeping, she's she he he watches her and she's asleep, and mid-sleep or mid-dream, she's saying, Just please kill me, just kill me. Yeah, so she isn't happy, she's aware that she brought herself, she breaks now and then, yeah, or kind of has a sort of Stepford wife malfunction. Yeah, well, which is interesting because it proves that she's unhappy in that situation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that she's aware inside all the time of everything that's I would have thought all the time because she's when she asks because when she asks him to kill her, that's a woman that's that's aware of what's going on.
SPEAKER_02He's already on meds, that's something that we haven't talked about. We know he's on medication, but it could be his nan's medication. It's just his nan's medication, yeah, and there's like the name apparently is Barbara Bailey. Yeah, yeah you see her meds anyway. He takes a lot of meds that he finds in the medicine cabinet, starts crossing at the mouth and all of that stuff.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's the same meds that killed the cat, yeah. Which obviously that's like a they put drop that in at the beginning because so you know it's going to be significant later.
SPEAKER_02When Nikki is effectively broken from this spell, it is like it's a spell that she's under.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, she's like in it's really funny because she's in total disgust. He's like lying on her lap, he's dead already, I think. Yeah, yeah. And she's about to kill herself in what seems like this kind of trek tragedy kind of Romeo and Gillette. Exactly. That's exactly what she was. They were both gonna die originally, anyway. Originally, and then um I've somebody, I don't know who, it might have been a producer, I don't know, said, No, have someone surviving.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then she snaps out of it and she's like, ah! And she's like in absolute I don't do a really funny. She's in she's like almost like get off me. What's this person on my lap? She she literally just snaps out of it as quickly as she was put under the spell. Yeah, it's it's really sudden, isn't it? It's not it's not a good thing.
SPEAKER_01And then she goes into this um purge of emotions where she just, as you can imagine, you would be in that situation. Um uh inconsolable, uh, completely horrified and well, I think we relieved probably as well.
SPEAKER_02Due to various montage sequences, we don't know how long it's been going on, but certainly months. Yeah, I imagine. Yeah. Because there's that beginning bit of the honeymoon period, isn't there? Yes. When the relationship the relationship being being quite sort of almost 1950s and perfect, and they're making dinner together and watching TV together and laughing together, and everything seems kind of normal. I don't know when if there's a moment where she starts not being happy and it goes wrong.
SPEAKER_01Despite obvious the obvious unhingedness of her behaviour and the horror that unfolds, you can also read this as just a relationship drama, how how a relationship goes, right? Because there are those moments at the beginning where it's lovely, and then you start. We all have a honeymoon period. And then um, and then other things take over, and there's this is a I think you said before that Curry Barkett intended this to be about a codependent relationship, which it it kind of sort of is, but it's more that it is, yeah, it is, and she I mean her behaviour within the relationship, obviously under under a spell, but if you remove that aspect of it, is you know, her neuroses come up, she's manipulative, she displays narcissistic traits, um uh she's certainly co- controlling and coercive. Um and while I described Bear as a massive villain here, there's also um you can also read her as a villain for sure, or or at least being framed in some way by the film as um uh uh what what what women are like in relationships.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think we we have to go, let's go there. Yeah, Kim. So um I think that I don't think the film is problematic, but the fact that she goes hysterical and so overly emotional, it's almost I can't imagine this in reverse. I can't imagine if she made a wish uh say uh I wish Bear loved me more than anyone in the fucking else in the fucking world. I um the it would be completely different type of obsession. It could possibly be more violent, more aggressive, more rapey, which it kind of yeah, is anyway. But the fact that she just becomes this horrific. I mean, you wouldn't want to live with her, no one would want to live with her. She's she's not herself at all. She's this whingy, whiny, crazy, scary, obsessive. She tapes the doors up so he can't go, or she or something like that. Yeah, um, I mean, it's really, really off the chart crazy. Yeah, yes. And not pleasant to be with. So, in a way, he is he's stuck in a situation he does not want to be in. So he knows he's done a stupid wish and he does try to change it, he tries to get out of it.
SPEAKER_01Kind of about this fantasy versus reality as well, isn't it? This I he'd held her up to be this fantasy, and there are there are moments um through the beginning before she falls under the spell um that kind of hint towards her um actual self versus the fantasy idea he has of her. She's very independent, she threatens his masculinity. Um you know, she when they're in the bar, she pays for the drinks. Um and um there's this, she's she's had this, she's had this nickname Freaky Nicky, which we don't really know, we don't really know why people used to call her that. She doesn't like it, she hates it when he refers to that. And then and then the same moment at the bar when he orders a pina colada, she laughs about the fact she's she's like, Oh, I like it when my men have a feminine feminine side or something. And he takes massive offence to that. Why is that feminine? I just don't like the taste of alcohol. Yeah, so it's an affront to his We don't get to see normal Nikki much, we only see Yeah, but there are these these hints that she's an independent and she's having this sexual relationship with Ian that's secret that neither of them we're told are invested in emotionally, particularly. Um, so we know that she's she's this kind of independent woman, and I think you know, this idea there's a trend um on social media, and I guess in real life, certainly I've seen people talking a lot about it on social media about women remaining single, de-centering men from their lives, not wanting to be in traditional relationships, and this kind of hints at that for her, and then because she wanted to leave the job as well, didn't she?
SPEAKER_02So she wasn't happy in the job, she wasn't, yeah, she's totally independent, and he obviously effectively takes that autonomy away from her. Um, and here's why the film again is touching so many buttons now because it's and it's it's a very zeitgeist film, because we're now seeing women's rights, especially in the US, filtering to here, I I guess, but um, especially in the US that they're they're feeling it a lot more. Um I don't want to go too much down that road, but abortion rights, women's rights, women's voice across the world, even um, we're getting more and more silenced. Um, so yeah, the film is very zeitgeist in that it touches upon all of these bizarre things. Like we go somehow, we're feminism is devolving, is that a word? Devolution of women's rights and uh bodily autonomy. I don't know if Curry was doing that again intentionally, must have been, must have been a little bit just quickly. Um, the original ending where yes, you're right, everyone was supposed to die, and it was actually Curry's dad convinced him that leaving Nikki alive to deal with all the consequences of Bears' actions would be even more disturbing. And maybe they will do a sequel, but I'm hoping I can't imagine a sequel with this. No, it's not I mean, there's the there's the one wish willow, anyway. That's a whole other debate. Um, so his he's he's the director's.
SPEAKER_01Said there might be a sequel.
SPEAKER_02Not that I know of, because um he's probably gonna be put onto some huge bloody studio picture now, isn't he?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I d I could see it as maybe an anthology type franchise. I wouldn't like to follow up on these characters, but Oh, that was it.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, I did see Curry in an interview saying, um, oh, the only thing I saw as a sort of um sister project to this would be like um, yeah, an anthology or a series where each episode is a is one of the wishes. Yeah, yeah, very similar to sort of Tales from the Crypt or something like that. I'm gonna put something across. Let me just read this out because bear with me on this. Bear um moving the concept forward a little bit, seeing Bear as a kind of nice, quote unquote nice guy, as in not a violent, aggressive, not a typical person you're scared of, anyway, um, is part of the problem of male entitlement. So he represents to me the grey area of, and I'm gonna say it as a quote, but I'm one of the good guys, and I get that from um it's a rhetoric that's really, really worrying, um, and it's a theme that it's explored in a completely different film. It's not a horror, but it's horrifying, called Promising Young Woman. Emerald Fennell's first film. Yeah, with um Kerry Mulligan. Yeah. Amazing, worrying, disturbing, it's fucking clever. And the reason it's so devastatingly, depressingly and brilliant, um, in the same way that I think obsession is as well, is it's not about scary, weird, monstrous looking, rapey men who look like rapists and like, you know, smelly old men that you wouldn't in a million years want on top of you. It's about the everyday, it's about the grey area of masculinity, it's about the ones that are brushed under the carpet, it's the accepted abuse that goes on all the time that's really subtle and nuanced. Like, and there's literally a moment. I don't know if I can it's not one of the characters in Promising Young Woman says to her, But I'm one of the good guys, I'm actually one of the nice ones. And she's like, What? Yeah, what the fuck? So I can't go into it because that's a whole other um episode which we should do. I just think that with obsession, taking it back to obsession, the character of um Bear I think is quite nice, and in a way that's quite strong because it highlights that murkier, greyer area of the patriarchy or of male entitlement that isn't overt, it's not out there, it's not criminal, it's not like you should go to prison, you're a fucking rapist, you're a date, but it's very insidious, insidious, yeah, what he's doing.
SPEAKER_01I think we basically feel the same about Bear because you're saying the reasons why I find him so awful, but yes, he has got this kind of oh, I'm a geek, and I don't have I don't have any luck with women, and please help me, and I'm so in love. He has that kind of like a mother would love him that you might find um some kind of sympathy for, um but underneath it, he's actually his actions tell you the kind of person he is, and and for the most part, he's a creep, and cowardly, I think cowardly is a is a good word as well because um and also selfish.
SPEAKER_02So there's a scene, I think it's when again she's asleep saying, Please kill me, or something. She says something, please kill me, or to kill me now. Yes, and he says and he says, What am I that? Um am I that hard to love?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and she's uh uh uh that hard to be with, and she says, I was never with you, bear.
SPEAKER_02Well almost, yeah, it's quite devastating because yeah, he's obviously totally selfishly taken well, basically taken her everything from her. Her identity. Although it doesn't, it it isn't what he wants. You know, the what what the relationship becomes is hideous. Yeah. I mean, he hates it and he's worried and he's trying to like get her to change. Um he's trying to make it work. As you say, he doesn't when he phones up the uh hotline, yeah, yeah, one willow hotline. Um, I can't remember the words, but he I wants to the guy says, Do you want to end the wish? And he goes, You can't, you have to die. And he goes, Can I alter it or can I change it or something?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he says the only way it can end is if you die.
SPEAKER_02If you die, and he's like, Oh my god, I'm stuck with this forever. And this isn't the girl I wanted, this isn't the relationship I wanted.
SPEAKER_01No, no one would want that. No, and then I just before we move on, I just wanted to say that she's her surname is Freeman, and of course she was free until she wasn't, she became enslaved. Um uh yeah, under this spell. But I was gonna skip to the end because because you had some interesting things to say about the ending where Oh, I will do the ending because it's something too soon to go there.
SPEAKER_02We can we can do it now, we can end with it. Um we should probably say it's one of those films that's really clever, a bit like I know that um Curry Barker really loves um Ari Asters films, and they even talk, I think they talk about things and you know, um, and just like Midsommar, obsession is something you can definitely watch more than once and get a few more things out of it, a few little Easter eggs in there. I just want to quickly go back to what I thought the film was exploring was what happens when a lonely, quote, nice guy, unquote, chooses control over consent. I think that's kind of what it boils down to. Yeah, he's he's she's not getting her to consent. And it's interesting because the film is, as we said, it's it's speaking to all you know the the young Gen Z. It's not like fatal attraction. You know, we did fatal attraction, yeah, I know very different themes. Well, obsession. You are obsession, obsession's still in there, but it's it's a lot, this is a lot more subtle, isn't it? And I would say that that's the problem that that the young uns have these days is that you know all the problems out there are insidious, they're hidden, they're online, they're you know, yeah, yeah. That's that's what they're dealing with, and yeah, dating and finding someone and communicating with someone, that's the key. Men have got to learn, if only they learnt to communicate their feelings, none of that would have happened.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I well before we move on as well. I just wanted to I and I talk about this a little bit in our um next episode. The Hansel and Gretel story, to return to that. So so she so the story that she recounts at the party is a story of incestual obsession. Um, and one of the things she says in the story, and this as I said, came from Curry Barker's dad. Apparently, this story. His dad sounds cool. Fill it, his meaty forearm, if he wouldn't be inside me. She threatens, she threatens this within the story. Roll it like a stick of licorice and insert the flesh between my legs. Now, when she says forearm, I'm I'm pretty certain she means penis, not actual forearm. Um, but so this idea, we talked about the vagina dentata, we've talked about that so many times. But this idea, this psychological psycho and the analytical idea of the vagina dentata, the idea, the subconscious fear that men have that when they put their penis inside the vagina, it will get bitten off by some teeth, is subconscious, it's not um literal. Um unless you watch teeth. Uh, but so the woman um literally is threatening in this story, the sister threatening to cut off the penis. Uh, and then this this ties into the idea of the femme castratrice, which we've also talked about before, which is something Barbara Creed, a feminist film critic, talks about in her books. Um, and that is this idea of the woman who threatens to castrate the male. I mean, not necessarily actually, but but symbolically. Um, and men, men, the idea that men and the patriarchy is afraid of women taking over, women taking control, women seizing or overpowering masculinity to to make femininity the leading power. Um, and I think that is all in this film, too. The woman is essentially challenging patriarchal control, rendering the man physically or psychologically less dominant. He steps in with his wish and um seeks to suppress this and control her instead, which ends badly, which ends badly. Also, the idea of the absent father is in this film too. Oh, that's trope, isn't it? Yeah, um so they mention Nikki's dad, and um we don't know what went on between them, but we know she doesn't like him at all. She uses him to manipulate Bear once she's under the spell by saying that he's dying of cancer, which we understand isn't true. But Ian raises the point that she hates her dad, who lives in Washington, I think. But um, so you can infer that um maybe there was some broken family, he's maybe gone away, and there's an absent father thing, which which plays into the whole uh idea of the woman going a bit psycho.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think you're right with this whole this this perfect woman idea, like the you know, you have in your head what a perfect relationship looks like to you, and obviously the reality of, as you said, any relationship is that it's it's messy, it can be annoying, you have to talk about boring things and laundry, and it's just yeah, it's it's not what you think, but this idea of perfect womanhood, I just don't see it in reverse. I mean, there's so many stories. Yes, we're saying this story is zeitgeist, but again, like I think I've already mentioned when you go back to a key film, I think Stepford Wives, written by Ira Levin in I can't remember, the 70s, 1970-something. I mean, I know feminism was at its sort of peak, well, peaking then. So it's a really key film and this key book and film. And again, I think one of the reasons Stepford Wives is clever, and the reason obsession is clever is the same reason, and that is we're not looking at the worst of the worst men, we're looking at the everyday man, yeah, not scary rapey man who looks like a troll hides in the shadows. Like we all avoid want that, but it's the it's like even even her in the Stepford Wives, even her feminist thinking husband who's supportive and open-minded, even he succumbs to the idea of um somebody who is submissive, who is there to you know, attend to him, shag him, shop for him, and more importantly, not raise a fuss, like not not object to anything, yeah, not really not really argue with obsession. I think they have made him a bit likable because then it's that's what's worrying about it all. Um I've got loads of things I want to say about this. There's um there's a really interesting Tales from the Crypt episode from 1991 starring Andrew McCarthy.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love Andrew McCarthy.
SPEAKER_02I used to fancy Andrew McCarthy. He's another one of these very pleasant, easy to look at. He was in a really good film called Class as well. I love Class. Um, and there is an episode called Loved to Death, very similar. McCarthy plays a lonely screenwriter, and his neighbour is the girl from his dreams. He spies on her and imagines her as a character from his screenplay. Again, idealising someone. Yeah, his landlord offers him a love, offers him a love potion, and the screenwriter, uh Andrew McCarthy character gives it to her. It works, and his crush is in love with him so much she drains him sexually and just wants more and more and more. So it's a slightly sillier um version, but really similar. Like if you're interested in this, I'm not saying at all Curry got his idea from this, but it's just what I find interesting is that from the we probably find a film from the 60s as well. From every decade, there is a film dealing with this theme.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a love potion in um midsummer as well.
SPEAKER_02But it's basically woman as compliant doll.
SPEAKER_01But it was a compliant man, huh? He was a compliant man in Midsummer. Well, he yeah, yeah, he was in Midsummer, but but yeah, just saying love potion.
SPEAKER_02So shall I do the ending? Yeah, let's talk about the ending and the ending is interesting because I think you need to watch it again to get a lot of these little hints. There's he's quite a subtle filmmaker. Oh, look, here's me going on about the Zoltar machine. Oh, well, big Well that yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's another film very simple, and it doesn't go quite right, does it? In it doesn't No, because he's a I wish I was big, and he should have said, but even if he said I wish I was older, he'd be like Yeah, I should have been specific about his age, but even then, he obviously his brain didn't didn't he stayed the same mentally, didn't he?
SPEAKER_02And that film wouldn't get made now because talking about darkness he he's 12 and he has sex with a 30-year-old or something and without her realising. Um and I don't know, and I don't think any I don't want to I mean I love the innocence of these films, and I don't want to be like, ew, that's just I mean, I don't read any paedophilia into it at all, that's ridiculous. Yeah, but actually I just don't think that again that wouldn't get made now. No, certainly not that aspect of it. No, I think they get away with it because they only hint, he walks into the office all happy as if he's like finally done it.
SPEAKER_01Also, it's that way round, boys, young, young. Well, exactly. Where's the threat? It's a bit more Where's the threat when we do permissive the ending? So she um he has decided he he is actually gonna do the right thing, free her, and kill himself. Um but and he's not sure how, he tries a couple of different ways, he finds he can't. I think he tries to stab himself, or that was his initial idea, and then it then he gets a gun out and he can't do that. Uh he's in the bathroom, and so then he decides he's gonna get the uh his grandma's pills that killed his cat, the that his cat got into and um in inadvertently ate and died. Uh, and an overdose on them. So he takes a load of them, and while he's doing this, we hear the his plan had been to ask um Nikki to make a wish on the One Wish Willow Willow that would undo um I don't know exactly what the wording of this wish would have been. He didn't get a chance to ask her, but the one wish willow he leaves out, um, and you hear the music go off and you hear um it the snap and you know she's made a wish.
SPEAKER_02I didn't know that because I'm I watched it at the cinema only last week. See, I thought, oh, he's redeemed himself. Yes, he has released her because he sees it as the only way out of this sticky situation. It's by committing suicide, this is what he was told. Yeah, so you're like, oh, he's done the right thing. He could have because you know, a normal normal guy, oh my god, Freudian, the normal guy would have just killed her. True though. A normal guy probably would just get rid of you and release his.
SPEAKER_01I mean, after the moment that she killed Sarah like that, fuck, what would you? You'd go to the police. You would be scared, you would be scared, but you know, he's like, shit, I made this wish, it's my fault.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So yeah, watch it again, maybe. I wouldn't mind seeing it again as well. If you're not paying attention, you might think Bear redeems himself at the end by willingly committing suicide, although I think he does try and throw up at one point. Yes, he doesn't do it.
SPEAKER_01He does, but then the wish, the wishes.
SPEAKER_02But then the wish kicks in. And so yeah, he what he is sort of freeing Nikki from the curse, so we think. But if you watch the bathroom scene closely, Bear chickens out, attempts to throw up some pills, and at this point, yeah, you hear a snap, and the creepy music plays in the background. It's the snap of the wood from the one wish willow. Bear seems to forget the pills he's just swallowed. He goes into the living room to embrace Nikki, and then he kind of overdoses and collapses on on her lap and he dies. And then we can see the open one wish willow box in the foreground of the shot. So the conclusion is that Nikki, again, it's all hinted at, which is so clever. Yeah. Because that's it it does demand a second viewing. Yeah, we never heard her well. Probably made a wish while he was in the bathroom because he's obviously not returning her love in the way that she wants, that obsessive, scary, murderous love. Um, and so if she had said, I wish Bear loved me as much as I love him or something, it would make him actually feel love. And real love isn't coercive control, it's to release someone and free them. So he allows himself to die, and then she's released finally.
SPEAKER_01Well, does he allow he does I mean he doesn't because he's because he's stopped the action of vomiting, because he's been taken over by this powerful desire for um Nikki and comes out and he's sweet.
SPEAKER_02Well, he already had the desire. I think she was she needed him to love and respect her, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Whatever however you want to describe that, that powerful pull towards her, um like everything's okay. I assumed he sort of forgot that he was about to throw up some pills that he'd taken to kill himself because he because if he hadn't he would have still done it at that point, surely um because he would want to be with her and he would know that if he dies that the the the spell is broken. Anyway, what happens is yeah, he dies, and Nikki Nikki uh makes it albeit traumatized.
SPEAKER_02Okay, how the hell how the hell do we end this one? Well, we're gonna be seeing a lot more from Cari Barker, I think. He's he's he's and we haven't touched upon at all because everyone's talking about it. Um is it Indy Never Indy Navaretti? Navaretti. Indy Navaretti sounds Italian. Yeah, don't you? Um I mean her performance is amazing, everybody's talking about that, and I think she's responsible for a lot of the memes out there and the reactions um that are online now, people doing impressions and recreating scenes and all of that kind of thing. She did an incredible job.
SPEAKER_01She's really good. She's really good, yes, agreed. And I haven't written an outro, I haven't written a quote for us, sadly, about evil quote. Oh, we need an evil quote. You get them when you get them. Sometimes we don't do them, but um we've got a wish. Have you got a wish, Kim? Oh my god, I'm not putting that out there.
SPEAKER_02We have to be careful what we wish for. We know that we can't put shit out into the universe, it's gonna come back in weird ways.
SPEAKER_01Um we get it, we've learnt our lesson. Alright, okay, well, uh, I shall keep my obsession secret and um will not be manipulating anything to my advantage. Don't cast any weird spells. No.
SPEAKER_02Alright, thank you everyone for listening. Um, love us, like us, subscribe, and all that stuff, and we shall see you for the next one. Stay well!