Devin Ferver Built a Salon That Women Feel Safe In

I’m sitting down with Devin Ferver, founder of Fernwell Salon, aka the woman I trust with my hair and my sanity. And yes, we get into everything from building a women-only salon to why the beauty industry can be… a little weird sometimes.

We talk about the real salon experience most women don’t say out loud, what it takes to build a business that actually feels aligned, and why creating a space where women feel comfortable is way more intentional than people think.

There’s a little business, a little chaos, a lot of honesty, and honestly just one of those conversations that makes you go “wait… yeah.”

If you’ve ever felt uncomfortable in a space that was supposed to feel easy, you’ll get it.

💚 Support the Pod: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2550540/support

🎙️ Recorded at: https://www.fernwellsalonspa.com/

📲 Follow along / stalk politely: https://linktree.com/taylortaylortaylor / https://www.instagram.com/fernwellsalonspa

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to the Taylor Taylor Taylor show. The show where we say things three times until it makes sense. And today I have a leader in the beauty industry, and I'm lucky enough that I get to call her a friend. I know I have friends, so that's fucking crazy. Today I have my friend Devin, the owner of Fernwell Salon. Hello. Hi. I'm so happy that you're here. Thank you. Or I'm so happy I'm here. Yeah. Like, because we are at her salon right now. Um, tell us a little bit about you, Dev.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Mmm, where do I even begin? Well, I mean, Fernwell is my second salon that I've um ran and managed and now officially just owned by myself. So I've been in the hair salon or the hair industry about 12 years now. Um, so it's definitely something that I've gotten comfortable with and know kind of the ins and outs from the behind the scenes to the front end. Um, so yeah, just love being around people.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

It kind of fits me. Devin owns a female founded, obviously by her, and female staffed salon. What made you make that decision to only hire women?

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Um, oof, getting into the nitty-gritty already. Already. Um, I don't know. I just think over the years I've been around a lot of male stylists, I've been around a lot of male salon owners, and I'm not saying all of them, um, but I would say majority of them have made women feel uncomfortable, sexual passes, um, just you know, not appropriate um behavior and stuff. So I feel like when women can't fully act and be like themselves, they're not gonna be able to um get to their full potential. So in this salon, I am gonna make sure that no woman has to feel uncomfortable here.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

I love that. Because how many times do you, especially listeners at home, do you go out, you get your hair done, and you don't love it, and you're terrified to say something when you get out of the chair? I've never had that experience here or with you in general. And I feel like cultivating that kind of environment is what we need, especially in the beauty industry. Yeah. That is and I I'm not in the industry, but from what I'm seeing and observing, I feel like more and more men have entered this space. Yeah. And it kind of makes it less sacred for women. Cause like this used to be a place where everyone just went and gossiped and like got your hair done and you looked pretty. And now I feel like there are so many male counterparts to it. Yeah. I feel like sometimes the lines get blurred a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

And don't get me wrong, I mean, I know there's some women out there that like the flirting and the attention and stuff like that. Like, I get it. The male, the male stylists, they have the charisma, all that kind of stuff. Um, but that's just not personally what I want in my salon. Yeah. Did you have any inspirations? Um, no inspirations kind of just head down and charge the mountain with me, but I guess I'm gonna be an inspiration for people.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yes, you are. Like, this is an inspiration. I'm so excited for you, both personally because I'm obsessed with you, and like just as like a woman in business, it's so refreshing to see someone do it, like do the damn thing. So, okay, so we talked about men in business, and especially men in this like atmosphere. Can you tell us about what you're wearing today, too?

SPEAKER_02 3:51

So, this is Paya. This is my girl Ali. Um, this is her company, Athleisure. She's uh, you know, another woman-owned business, and she just celebrated her five-year anniversary, and she's killing it right now. Killing it. Five years is such like that's that marker. Yeah, like okay, I did it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, very inspirational with her too. So, how long has this salon been open? So, this was an existing salon. It was here for about 23 years, I want to say. Um, and then I signed October 10th of 2025. So it's been about six months since I took over.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Only six months? Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, we're gonna have to do a like TikTok video or a um short form going through the salon so I can like get here after. But can you also tell us where you're located?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

So we're located in Newark, Delaware. Okay, the Levere Shopping Center, um, right across on the Bank of America Campus and two miles from Main Street.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Oh my gosh. Um, I love your big sign up there by the way. Thank you. Oh, it's the biggest. It is. Where did you come up with the name?

SPEAKER_02 4:54

So, um there's a little bit, there's a lot of thought behind the name. So basically, um I had been toying with a couple other names. I think brew was the first one I came up with. It was B R U and it meant like bungalow and like homey and cozy. But my aunt who's really involved in sales, she's like, absolutely hate it. It she was like, you know, people aren't gonna spell it right, it's gonna remind them of like coffee or alcohol. So I started toying around with some other words. Uh, some of the other ones were a little basic. I felt like they were pretty overused. So um, I said it in this other podcast I was in too, but I remember it like could tell you the time, like the spot I was at, everything like that. I was coming home for I was going home from a CrossFit class, and I just thought of it instantly, and it was Fernwell. I had been toying with a couple, so I just like the sound of it together. But so fern is like a resilient plant, um, strives in like less than perfect conditions, and then it's also a nod to Scotland. Scotland's really um special to me. I've gone there two times. I and I did um my second time there was a solo, and then it just matches the aesthetic of who I am as a person and the fantasy stuff. So, like Harry Potter, you know, Lord of the Rings, um, and then Well is just like a sustainable place, it holds fast, and it's a community of gathering, and you know, so fernwell it is.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

I love that so much. You mentioned the Lord of the Rings, the books that you like. My listeners wouldn't know this from looking at you. She is a nerd. She is a nerd. What is the last great book you read?

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Um, the last great book I read was um, I think it's called Onyx Storm. It's Fourth Wings third book. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

That was a really that's one of my favorite series. I have to get back into the fourth wing. I read like half of the first book. How did you stop? And that's I know, I know. How did you stop? I was like, why does she want to be a writer so bad? Like, girl, go go write. Go write!

SPEAKER_02 6:46

I don't like that you want to ride.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

That's the biggest dragon. I think I spoiler alert, but I think I got to the part where she got she got the biggest dragon and her like lover, the guy that she was like interested in. That's what I love this nut. I love this. I know, I love this mut. Um, so good. So, okay, what's the best movie that you've seen recently?

SPEAKER_02 7:05

Oh, I haven't even watched any movies recently. I haven't been watching like any movies.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

OTG, you're like off the grid.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah, basically. I haven't my attention span is not there right now.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

So what made you kind of get off social media? Because you're not on social media a lot right now. Like the salon is, but you personally, you're not.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Um, because I'm just not traveling or doing anything right now, too. You're there 24-7. Yep, exactly. So, but you know, I'm a person who, if I, you know, find something I'm interested in, I'm just gonna give it 120%, and that's what I'm doing right now. So this salon and the girls are, you know, where my attention goes right now.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

And you get to work with two of your sisters, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:43

One sister. One of your sisters, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

How awesome is that?

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Or is it hit or miss? No, her and I are great. My youngest sister worked for uh for me for a couple of years. She was an assistant. We're definitely fire and fire. Yeah. Um, still sweet, she knows the industry in and out too. But Kendall, my 21-year-old sister, um, we're kind of opposite. She's a lot more quiet, doesn't really, you know, but she's just a little more zen. So we actually, I think, work pretty well together. She's like very zen. Like her whole presence is very. She's very baseball. We're not like that. No, no, not at all. Not even at all. Um she it's been really fun to see her um take on entrepreneurship and just finding she likes to do different jobs and she does the social media, she likes the design, you know. She really has um stepped up into that role like very well.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

So probably because you're such an inspiration to her, whether she admits it or not. Like, yeah, I don't know. See your older sister do something so big has to be like, oh my god. Yeah, everybody in the family is pretty excited to have another business.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

So are you the first entrepreneur in your family? No, my dad. What did your dad do? So he owns Mr. Mulch, it's a landscaping business up in Westchester. He had mulch. How did I not know this? Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

It's right off 202. No, my family like buys our mulch from there. I've been there. Hell yeah, we love it. I love Mr. Mulch.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Yeah, so he had a couple, um, he had a couple locations. He's closed throughout the years because he's getting older, he's basically retired, but he's self-made. I mean, he dropped out of high school when he was in 11th grade. He's dyslexic, you know. So he's always been really good with numbers. Yeah. So yeah, he's self-made. So you grew up with that, like in your mind that like my dad could do it. Yeah, I know I can do it. Yeah, definitely. I it's definitely a personal thing just trying to help, or not help, but um just have him proud of me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Oh my god. I I get the same, I feel the same with my parents. Like they're entrepreneurs, and I'm like, well, I mean they did it, they had each other, but like yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we go. So uh balancing it back to uh you traveling. So you said Scotland is a very special place for you. Why?

SPEAKER_02 9:47

Uh I just so when I first got the travel bug, so because you know, I've so I've c traveled quite a bit, I've been to 28 countries, and um I got it really young. So my the first bite I got from it, I was a student ambassador, and it was my seventh going into eighth grade summer, and I traveled all around the UK for three weeks. Uh it was the People to People program. So I've always been obsessed with the UK. I just love the traditional feel there, um, you know, and the architecture. Like, we think buildings are old over here if they're just like a couple hundred, they're thousands of years old over there. So I was trying to think of like a good spot to do my first solo some somewhere that they still spoke the same language. It wouldn't be that crazy of a flight, all that kind of stuff. But um, I just love the quirkiness. Like all the places I've been to that I've really fallen in love with would be like Amsterdam, Iceland, Scotland. They just have quirkiness and characteristics to them that you don't see. It's just a lot of uniqueness, you know, no skyscrapers there. The people are lovely, so the weather's shit, but it honestly everything else makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Didn't you spend New Year's in Amsterdam? Where was that?

SPEAKER_02 10:50

No, Scotland.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Oh, that was Scotland. Okay, yeah. Two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Yeah, Hogmana, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

And you were by yourself on that trip. Yeah. Well, okay, so walk us through being a solo traveler as a woman in a completely different country. Did you feel safe?

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Absolutely. Really? Scotland, yeah. Scotland, you definitely feel safe in. Um, but it was super empowering. Yeah. Like it, it was just like, you know, if I can do this by myself, I can do anything by myself. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

Did you make friends? Like on your way home?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yeah, yeah. That's like one of the like my favorite things I like about traveling is the connections and the people you meet, and you know, I have friends all over the world now.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

That's awesome. So, okay, so say one of my listeners is taking a trip for the first time solo, and they're scared on making friends, like being that person to walk up to someone and be like, Oh, I like your shoes, or oh, you know, hi, I'm Anna, or whatever the fuck your name is. Um, so what are your tips for that? Well, I would definitely say go to a hostel bar.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Okay. Go to a hostel bar. Hostels you can never go wrong with you're gonna meet other people that are doing the same exact thing you're doing. Right. But um, you know, find something that you're interested in, like if somebody's reading a book that you read or you've been thinking about reading, or you know, if they're drinking the same drink you like, anything like that. Any little thing to open conversation with.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

And do you think more people are going to be receptive of that than they than they would originally think? Because I feel like if I walked up to a random bar in Philadelphia and I was like, hey girl, I like your shoes, she would be like, Go birds, go fuck yourself. Yeah. So like well, like we talked about in the northeast.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, the northeast. Yeah, with a little rough around the edges. But um, when you're traveling, you everybody basically has a pretty open mindset. Yeah, so I don't think you're gonna anybody's gonna have a problem with that. Do you have a place you want to go next? Oh, I got quite a few. Okay, tell me a couple. I mean, my bucket list is seven continents. I have five right now. Um, so I would love to do Argentina, Buenos Aires, take the cruise ship down to uh Antarctica, so that would be another one. Japan, South Korea, um North Korea? No, no, you're not I don't know about that. I don't know about that yet, too soon. Um, but uh, and then Australia and New Zealand, because of course Lord of the Rings, Human. Yeah, but um, and then just start bopping around Europe again. I'm absolutely obsessed with Europe, so I'm gonna ask a controversial question.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Do you think that Australian men just will cheat on you? Um, I honestly think Australians are like they're my favorite people. We have a big discourse in the comments on Australian men. Really? So there's it's split 50-50. Okay. But a lot of the girls that I've talked to, they will say Australian men, like they've never dated an Australian that hasn't done them dirty. So that's it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Um, I mean, maybe it's because I have a different mindset when I'm traveling or something, but um, I still keep in touch with some Australians I've met. I just love like their outlook on life. They're so fun, they try to make the best of any situation, and they just have like this energy to them that is just really inspiring to see.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

So okay, back on reality TV, you infamously had a moment with Kyle Cook, allegedly. Allegedly, yeah, allegedly. Um, can you tell us what happened? Um, I gave him a titty twister. I love this. Okay, so with Amanda and Kyle breaking up, whose side are you on? Um, always the girls. I know, me too. Always the girls. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

You can just see how people carry themselves, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

So and he's like 41, like at this point, and like early summer house, you're like, how are you doing this? Like, how is this a thing? Do you listen to Giggly Squad? Hannah and Page. But I do I do know that I've like heard him and seen him and stuff like that. Okay, so would you be a Hannah or would you be a Paige? Page. Really? Yeah, Paige. I feel like you're such a mix between the two of them. Yeah, because like Hannah's like sporty and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for those who don't know Deb as well as I do, she is not only a CrossFit junkie, but an equestrarian. Equestrarian? Equestrian? Equestrian. Okay, I'm blonde. The bleach has seeped into my brain. So you still ride horses?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Um, not so much anymore. Don't really have the time uh for it, and it's a big commitment, you know. So um, but yeah, did it basically my whole entire life did sports. Can you compete with Bruce Springsteen's daughter? Yes, Jessica. That's crazy. Yep, yeah, down in West Palm.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Was she nice to you? I mean, you don't really Oh, you don't like see the other interact and so. I bet your horse was better though.

unknown 15:09

No.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Like actually no. No. She uh she had the funds for some good ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

So you spent a good amount of time in Palm?

SPEAKER_02 15:19

West Palm, yeah. I used to. We have we had a house in Loxa Hatchie Farm down there, so in the winter times I would go down there and grew up in uh the Florida Keys too. So beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

So you hate winter? Uh yeah.

unknown 15:33

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

I feel like when before the salon, when you used to travel, you would travel a lot in the winter. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that totally gave it away. But I love skiing though, so I don't understand that. Which, okay, are you good at skiing? I mean. Okay, so that means yes. I can hang. You know, like a lot of people die skiing. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

It's like they're not worried. Yeah. No, every time I get on the mountain, like as I get older too, I'm like, shit, like, I can get hurt. Like, I got bills to pay. Yeah. So yeah, and it's not even just like if you're good at it or not, it's other people.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Right. You know, the infamous Gwyneth Paltrow of it all when she like got sued for running into someone, like down a slee s a ski slope. I bet you I bet she was like millions of dollars. Yeah, she did. I bet she did. Going on vacation and like traveling in general, stressful. We covered that. Traveling with a partner can be even more stressful. What is the craziest fight you've ever gotten in on vacation? Was it with a partner? Was it with a friend?

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Uh yeah. It was probably down in my ex-fiance. I was down in Colombia.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

A fight in Colombia. Yeah. Oh my god. Was it did it escalate where one of you would like leave the hotel room? Yeah, I was getting ready to fly. I was looking at flights to fly home.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

In Colombia? Yeah. Like the drug trade capital of the world? Yeah. Oh my god. But you didn't. No. Okay, good, good, good.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

No. No. Never let them uh ruin your trip.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

No, never let them ruin your trip. That is the moral of this. Maybe a couple hours of the night, but yes. So friendships are similar to relationships, like they can dissipate as well. Do you think that since you've become so not that you always weren't strong, but I've definitely seen you come into your light in the past couple years and really like take hold of what is important to you. Do you feel like that eliminated some of your friendships along the way too?

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Friendships that um weren't that sustainable, yeah, for sure. It definitely helped weed out like people that um you know just wouldn't have been been beneficial to have in my life.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah. Um, some it wasn't even advice that you gave me, but it was a question. I don't even know if you remember this. But before I got married, um, I you were obviously doing my hair for my wedding, and you were like, How many girls do you have to like get your hair done? Because you were you and your girls were helping out. And I was like, I think I have like eight, and you were like, Eight? And you're like, and it was a question, but there is definitely a layer behind it. Like, really? You're gonna have that many girls. I'm here to tell everyone that if you're thinking of having eight girls in your wedding, you don't have that many friends. These are all not your friends. And I think just being in the room with us, you could have picked out who like wasn't going to be a long-standing friend. Do you see that a lot at like events you do? Or oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Yeah, I mean that's why like I asked you because I've done so many brides and weddings throughout the 12 years I've been in this industry, like, and then I see them like later on a year down the road, something like that, and they're like, I don't even speak to half my bridesmaids or crazy, you know. And I think that's just evolving as a person, outgrowing people. You know, I mean, a lot of people will fuck other people over and stuff like that, but I think it's just evolution, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

You know, for sure. Have you been through a friendship breakup? Like where you've had to be like, where you or the other person has had to be like, I don't want to be a friend anymore.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Um, probably. I don't think recently anything like that. I have a I have a very strong foundation of friendships nowadays. So, but I would say years ago, yeah, but I never really would have the talk. I'd just be like, peace, peace, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

I feel like that's so emotional.

SPEAKER_02 19:02

You know, yeah. That would be the Capricorn in me.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

So Oh my god, I love it. What's your rising? Um, I'm Capricorn Taurus Taurus. You're crazy. You're crazy. I love it. I'm a Taurus in Brad Aries. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm crazy, you're crazy. Uh yeah. You have Aries in you, you're crazy. Now, sitting in a chair and getting your hair done, that is therapy. Like, you probably hear so much crazy shit. Yeah. Do you ever repeat it? Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it depends on the premises and stuff like that. But yeah, when there's tea, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

That has to be for me, that would be the best part. Yeah. Yeah. Do you get a lot of people asking you for advice? Being like, should I leave him? Like, or is it more complaining? Um, it's probably more complaining, but I'll definitely put my two cents in there too.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. So if a girl sits in your chair and she's like, I'm thinking of breaking up with my boyfriend and she gives you like XYZ, you would be like, maybe you should uh do it. Yeah. Do it. Yeah. Do it. You're gonna glow, baby. You're gonna glow. But speaking of glowing, you can get spray tans here. Yeah. Organic spray tans. That is insane. And you do them, right? Like there's an actual person, it's not a machine. Have you uh have you noticed that more people are opting for the spray tan?

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot more people are doing it nowadays because you know, the tanning beds, that's our generation. We grew up like that was like the spa, you know. You're going, I want I used to work at Hollywood Tans. That was one of my first jobs I had, and I will go twice a day.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Oh my twice a day. Did you have the little stickers for like stars and hardware? The Playboy bunny on the left, yes. Of course, that was it. And you didn't have that at the at the Delaware beaches. You were lame. Yeah. You couldn't get into the starboard. Yep. No.

unknown 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

They're like, get out. Yeah. But um, yeah, no, a lot of people are doing the spray tans nowadays, especially like for fair skinned people, too. Like, we don't have the time to like lay out all summer long. You know, we're working, we're busy. But spray tans are a lot better for you. Um, and then they're just like instant gratification. You see the results right away. And they last a long time, like eight to ten days if you can if you take care of it well. And um yeah, it's just better for your skin. Old male, young female, everybody feels good with a tan.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Totally. I think that it's a misconception that men don't spray tan. Like, why are you going in tanning beds? Like, go get a spray tan. Like, and I've I do men too.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Do you get a lot of men in here? Not a whole lot yet, but I'm sure there'll be quite a bit as you know the name gets out there more, and we get busier and busier.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

You did say that you had a man come in to do a facial. Yeah. That's very exciting. I love it when men like experiment in women fields, and you're like, hmm, yeah, interesting. Yeah. We uh there's a local med spot that I work with, and we had some men do the like M sculpt where they like your abs. Yep. And they were dying. Like I was like, you guys can never have period cramps. Ever. Good luck. Good luck. Yeah. So uh the gossip, the chair, sitting in the you kind of being a therapist. Does it ever get annoying? Where you're like, oh my god, I've heard this story 18 times. Brenda won't stop. We get it, you hate your grandkids.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Like, no, not really, because I just as you have clients and stuff, you kind of um just get to know their personalities and stuff like that. So, whatever they have to tell me, no, it doesn't really annoy me or anything like that. Some days it's hard when you're not feeling like with it mentally, because I think that's a big thing is hairstylists, like we're expected to be on it at all times. So that can be a little daunting sometimes when you're just not feeling it, or if I have something going wrong here and I'm doing my client, you know. Sometimes I like forget the conversation we just had because my mind was like already going with like something else or whatever. But no, I'm never like annoyed or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

I'm here to help. That is so good to hear. Like in the back of my head, I would be thinking, Oh, like if I didn't know you, I'd be like, I wonder if she's annoyed that I've told this story 16 times, but I still can't get over it. But no, that's just your friend. Yeah, at that point.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

No, and I love doing your hair too, because you just like get it. Like when we have three, four-hour appointments, like we're talking, talking, talking, but then it gets to the point where it's like there ain't shit to talk about at this point, so then it's just like quiet. That's nice. Because then I can like lock in a little more because I love catching up, and then I also like you know, just have like the silent treatment basically, or the silent appointment. But um, yeah, that's the only thing sometimes when you're just like feeling off and you just like you're because you're given you're all all the time.

SPEAKER_01 23:15

That's true. Yeah, you're on consistently, and I feel like most people's eight-hour days, one of your days are 12 hours. Like, yeah, let's not kid ourselves. But most eight-hour days in a traditional workplace, you're not talking the whole time. So when people come up to me and they're like, Oh, you do a podcast, like you're only online for like an hour. What? I'm talking all day. We have six interviews today, like we're doing hair and makeup, like it's crazy. But they don't see the other side of it. Yeah, for sure. For the most part. When you tell boys your profession when you go out on a date, what is their first response? Are they like, oh, that's cool? Wow, that's impressive. I always hear impressive. Well, that's impressive. What do you say back? Thank you. What are things you look for in that person?

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Um, definitely like ambition, like what they do for work, that's always like a big one for me. Yeah. Um, like, are they doing more than me? You know, are they more driven? That kind of thing. Fitness is a big one if they're involved in fitness. But I'm also a firm believer, like, I will stay locked in 90% of the time, you know, all work, blah blah blah. But like I like to party and have fun too. Like, I always like to save room for that. So it's a little tricky situation when you're trying to look for somebody that's into fitness because that's usually one end of the spectrum, you know, big stream. They're either really, really into it or you know, they're partying non-stop, like if they're not into fitness, that kind of thing. So that's kind of tricky because I fun is like a big thing for me. So okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

What place do you have the most fun at around here?

SPEAKER_02 24:43

Like with your favorite bar? Well, I mean, in this area, like it could be Philly, it could be yeah. I mean, I love going to Philly, yeah. Yeah, concourse is my favorite. I know a lot of I'll get a lot of flack for that. But uh that's like a that's like a good 1am bar. You know, they got the dance floor, they have the ball pit, they have you like vinyl too, don't you? Not so much anymore. Ooh, okay, T. Just gets a it's just too packed now. There's just nice. It's too small. Yeah, too small. Yeah. I just I like a dance floor, have some rooms, um like fun things to do, just like move around, that kind of thing. Because I have ADHD so bad. So like sitting down and like doing the same thing for like a while. Yeah, it drives me crazy.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

We're supposed to do a like trolley loop tour of like sorts in a couple months, in a month or so. And Nate was like, I think you're convincing your best friend that she really doesn't want to do it. And I'm like, I'm not convincing her that she doesn't want to do it, but I think I'm convincing her that like this is not a good thing for your birthday. I don't want to do a loop around trolley square.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

I just again yeah, like that's just not like what do you you're gonna watch TV and drink?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Like you're gonna go to Logan House, you're gonna go to the Tap House, and then maybe Oyster Bar and Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

I mean some people love it, you know, not knocking it, but just not my thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

I'm much more of a sit me on a patio in a happy hour. Yeah and like I'll sit there all day so sangria some wine. Yep. Yep. So we talked about how you've done my hair for years. I we know this. My audience is like, okay, she's a pain in the ass. Let's let's talk about what was the craziest thing I asked you to do. Or like what was the most ugly I cannot believe Taylor wants to do this.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

When you wanted those fucking 22-inch extensions when you already have a shit ton of hair, I was like, girl, are you sure? And then I then remember I texted you twice about it before we did it, and I was like, we might have to cut them, and you're like, we're gonna put them in and we'll see. Yeah, no, for sure. We didn't cut them. No, we didn't cut them. We had like three rows, didn't we? Yeah, and it took me, no, we had five. Five rows of hair. We had five rows, and for your wedding day, it took me usually curling will take like maybe 20, 30 minutes. It took me an hour and 15 just to curl it.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

That sounds about right. I couldn't even remember me sitting in that chair that long. I know. How many girls did I do that day? We s so many. Yeah, I think there was like 18 all said and done. Oh my god. When you go to hire girls for this lawn here, what are some of the questions you ask? Like, how do you get a good read on someone?

SPEAKER_02 27:05

I mean, I think just being in this industry so long, you just kind of learn. Like, I see how, you know, how early they show up to the interview, I see how they're dressed, I pay attention to their handshake, eye contact, like all that kind of stuff. And then just like their credentials, uh, what salons they've worked at, if that's like a more, you know, better well-known salon, that kind of thing, and then just how they carry themselves. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

It's very eclectic in here for sure. Like, not everyone has brown hair, not everyone has blonde hair, like everyone's so just it's very diverse. Yeah, so diverse. Yeah, and it almost like one of my good friends, Ocean. Uh, I don't know if you've met Ocean. No, but I've heard you talk about it a few times. She um, she infamously, she's Jamaican, and finding someone that will do her hair is so difficult. She's like, everywhere I walk into, they're like, what am I gonna do with this? Yeah, and different texture, different texture, different vibe. This is a space where I feel like anyone could walk through that door and you would make sure that they were taken care of and they felt comfortable. 100%. And that's like part of your ethos in general. Yeah. So speaking of our of our dear listeners, I put up an Instagram story yesterday of some things to ask you. Okay. And these are some things that listeners want to know about the beauty industry, about hair, and about you. Okay. So, question one was can I cut my bangs at home? And if I do, how should I do it? Just come to me. So just come to me. This is Deb. Deb, look right in the camera. Tell all the girls not to cut their bangs at home. Do not cut your damn bangs at home. Okay? Take it from this one. It's very true. I'm still struggling with like the overgrowth right now. Yeah, bangs are tricky, but luckily enough, if you do, they grow out fast. So that's working in your favor. Is box dye ever okay? No. Never. No. Is boxed toner ever okay? You go to your local Sally beauty. I mean, I think that's probably fine.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Toner rinses out a little easier. And it honestly is fine to do box color to your hair if that's what you're always gonna stay with, you know? Okay. But you run into problems when you're trying to lift and highlight box color, it just comes up funky, all that kind of stuff. But if you want to stay one color, you're gonna commit to that, you're gonna do it yourself, then that's fine, whatever. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

In terms of braiding your hair, so this was like a very niche and specific question. I'm gonna have to look up what user asked. But when they wash their hair at night, they go to bed wet and they braid it. Is that bad for their hair? And in the morning they take it out. I wouldn't say bad.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

I would definitely say if you're gonna do that, try to blow dry it at least like 80% dry and then do it like that. Okay. Yeah. Um, curlers or curling iron? Um, whatever you're into. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. No, whatever you're into. Just always make sure you're using a heat protectant and good product so you can protect your hair.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Okay.

unknown 29:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Um, this is another oddly specific question. When you're blow drying your hair and there's a stylist that is taking like the brush and making curls with the blow dryer, do you think that that's performative?

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah, I mean it also see that's a that's a hard thing in this industry when you see certain videos or pictures on Pinterest and that kind of stuff. Those women have the specific hair that's going to react the way you want it to when you're doing that kind of stuff. You know, I have fine straight hair, so if you're doing a bore brush, all that kind of stuff, yeah, it's gonna look voluminous and stuff like that, but it's not gonna do that to somebody that has more cur coarse hair.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Right. So that's the thing. Do you uh love the little sleeper things people put on? Like you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_02 30:32

The little silk, the bond, the bond. Yeah things little bonds. I mean, it's good for your hair, breakage, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Silk pillowcases. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, for sure. Interesting. Good for your skin too, anti, antibacterial, or no. Yeah, anti not antibacterial, just I would believe you are hyplergenic.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

There we go. Hyperogenic. Yeah. All right, and these are a little more specific to you. Dating red flags.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Here we go. See, mine is blonde men, tall blonde men. I tried to set you up with the tall blonde man. And you were like absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Yeah, not really my eye, but like red flags is I don't know, just like the ego thing I cannot get behind when they just try to like act like so cool or like if I pick up on a lie, we're done. You know, if you're just trying to like impress me, like I can sniff bullshit out from a mile away. What's the easiest thing to do to impress you? Probably just plan a date to meet in person as opposed to trying to be my fucking pen pal.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

That is so real. That is so real hard. No, the amount of friends that I have that, and they'll go through like Instagram messages, like DMs. I'm like, why isn't he asking for your number? Like, why is he still sliding in the DMs?

SPEAKER_02 31:46

I will say, because majority of the guys I meet nowadays, it's on hinge because I don't do anything. I'm not going to the bars. Yeah, we'll see. Two of my closest, two of my really closest girlfriends are actually getting married um with the guys they met on Hinge. Oh my god. But yeah, I'm firm on like I'll give out my Instagram handle, but I will not give out my phone number until like we make concrete plans. I don't know why. I think it's just easier to get rid of them like on Instagram and stuff like that. And I also want to do like my background check on you, or I'll ask for their LinkedIn. Do you actually do the background check?

SPEAKER_01 32:18

No, just like on Instagram and stuff like that. Yeah, no. But you should like do the actual background check. I do that on all of my friends, like all of the time. I mean like you got a traffic ticket two months ago and I just saw it. But you can kind of get like a good read on people and their profiles and stuff like that. That's easy. I'm gonna need you to send me a name so I can make sure you're safe here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you stalk your friends' locations? Do you have them on Find My Friends? Um, yes, but I don't stalk.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

I think people probably stalk me more than I stalk them. Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But um, not big on sharing out my location either. Really? Yeah, just like a couple close people have it. Same with my Snapchat. I keep a lot of my stuff under wraps, you know. You still use Snapchat?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Just for my close friends. Just for your close friends. That's as a college professor, it's very interesting to see what they use and what they don't use. Like they're still Snapchatters, and I'm like, oh, I thought that was like our generation and like they would have moved on to something. Oh no. No, but that's like how they buy drugs.

unknown 33:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah, through like Snapchat. That's what one of the students told me. I love that they tell me all of this. I'm like, yeah, like give me the piece. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one student came up to me, this is so random, but at the end of class today, he's never talked once. He walked up and he said, I don't know if I'm gonna be here next week. And I was like, We have class Wednesday, so like it should be in like two days. He was like, It's my back, like you know about my back. And I was like, it uh do I? And he was like, Thanks for understanding, and like held up a peace sign and then walked out. And I was like, I don't understand, my god. What? I don't know. He was like, It's hard for me with the chair in my back. And I was like, Wait, what? I have literally no idea. Bring a cushion, bring a nice little cushion. Yes. Do you think you would have taken my class if you were in school? Um, probably not because I'm not a big class taker. Thank you so much. You you agree with all of the people on Rate My Professor, and I love it, I love that. Nothing personal, but uh fuck school, you know. If you uh could you ever see yourself being an educator in the beauty atmosphere?

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah, probably. I mean, maybe not so much just like the hair aspect and stuff like that, but I would say like for mindset and ambition, you know, that kind of thing, business, that would definitely be up my alley.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Well, it's it's so hard to have a dream and execute that dream to exactly what you were thinking in your head. And just like seeing like all of this, like all the chatkis and just the design, everything that you wanted it to be. Yeah. So I want to end with you giving just a little bit of advice to any of the little gremlins that listen to this podcast on being yourself, being a female entrepreneur, and not letting anyone fuck with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

I would say do not be scared to be yourself. Um, I spent a lot of time away when I was younger, so it was always really hard for me to like, you know, have consistent friends and all that kind of stuff. And then I've always been like a nerd too, and like into weird things and just been like a quirkier kind of person, and that always made me feel really self-conscious and just you know, always trying to not be too much. Um, and as I've gotten older, you know, as you get into your 30s, your late 20s, all of that, you start to have that grounding, that empowerment of like, no, this is who I am. If you don't like it, you can get fucked, basically. Yeah, you know. So I would say just be unapologetically you. Don't let anybody tell you you can't do anything. There, I use that as fire. I love pe proving people wrong. If they say I can't do anything, watch me. But you know, just try to be yourself. If you're questioning yourself, anything like that, if you're around people that make you do that, those are not the people for you. You know, it's gonna suck like getting rid of them in the moment, but you're gonna realize it's making room for other people that are gonna be a lot more positive and beneficial in your life. And um, yeah, just never be sorry for being yourself and embrace your quirkiness, embrace your weirdness, and you know, you'll find the people that will appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I feel like that's why we get along so well. Like, if you were just a cool girl, like you're a cool girl, but you're a nerd. But if you were just cool, I would be so intimidated by you. Like, I love that you love Lord of the Ring and like Akotar in the fourth wing. That's so cool. And the portion of you saying, Don't let anyone make you feel bad about being too much, that is such a common thing that girls write into me, and they'll be like, Well, he said I'm too much, or they said I'm too much, or he's trying to be too much. You should be too much. Yes. You should be.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yes, yes, because we can get where we're taking up space, take up space, put your foot down.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yes. Yeah. You guys are gonna think I paid her to say that, but that's what our merch says. Take up space. I didn't even know that. Take up space, babe.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Yeah. I love that. Yeah, it's true. I mean, never like as long as you're a good person, you're authentic, you're genuine, fuck all the other shit.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

I completely agree. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. So welcome. Um, Fernwell Salon. Um, what's the at? At Fernwell Salon Spa. Awesome. And then you want to give your personal handle or no? Um. Thank you for the fucking follow her, okay? Private. Private. Thank you so much, little gremlins, and I'll see you next week.