Financial Foundations: Governance, Trusts & Planning for the Next Generation with Lydie of ML Corporate Services

Financial Foundations: Governance, Trusts & Planning for the Next Generation with Lydie of ML Corporate Services

Lydie Murorunkwere, founder and managing director of ML Corporate Services, described as the first Rwandan TCSP licensed by the Central Bank, about governance, compliance, and preparing shareholding structures before bringing in partners. Lydie shares why she became an entrepreneur after working in a Mauritius-based firm, how she has remained the sole shareholder while relying on a strong board, and how she partners across African jurisdictions for cross-selling and on-the-ground guidance. The conversation focuses on planning early for the future through financial literacy, succession planning, wills, and trusts, including how trusts are structured, managed by trustees, and used to reduce family disputes. Lydie also discusses teaching children money values, Rotary-inspired service and integrity, and resilience through challenges.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Diantis ID Podcast, Conversations at the Intersection of Strategy, Culture, and Purpose. Each week we explore the ideas, people, and systems shaping how we live, work, and lead across Africa and the world. So today I'm joined by Lydie, founder and managing director of ML Corporate Services, the first Rondan TCSP licensed by the central bank. She's setting a new benchmark for compliance, governance, and corporate structuring services in Ronda. She's also a Rotarian, a mother, a wife, and someone I've shared a 10-hour salsa night with in Ghana. Lydie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be with you then. So before we get started into the serious stuff, tell me, have you been to Salsa since? We swore we would never go back. Have you been? Not yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Some days, yeah, you feel like you want to go back, but uh you remember about the the reason why you started and uh how you enjoying paying your own boss. So yeah, um I'm still there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Well, congratulations on becoming the first Rondon uh trust and company service provider that's licensed by the Ronda Central Bank. That's really a huge milestone for you, I'm sure, the company and the country. Why did you even want to start in this business? I think I remember you in a different field. So please take us through the journey.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Thank you, Jen. Uh I'm I'm someone who loves uh experiencing new challenges and uh being in a space where people are not really expecting myself. So one of the reasons I decided to go for entrepreneurship basically is because I think uh I was at the stage of my life that I need to do something on my own, I need to do something maybe differently, but where I can only put blame on myself, not other people. And uh I believe as a woman, usually um you you always have room to improve, you always have room to challenge yourself, and also to understand that uh you should not live your life uh by saying I should have been doing this or that. So it came really at a point where um I was maybe um looking looking at what I can do in terms of serving better or even in another field at the country level. So I used to work before enjoying that space for another company which was based uh in Mauritius. And when the contract ended, actually, I started asking myself, don't you think that you have enough resources on your own to start that journey? And though we I perfectly knew that it was difficult, it was challenging because it was a new space, um, I also felt that it was also time for us to show that as Rwandan, uh, we always welcome uh different people from different backgrounds because we want to learn from them, etc. But we can also show the other side of saying, as long as as long as I'm going to learn with you, I can also show you that I know what is happening in in Kigali, I know how things are going, I can also support in terms of like um understanding and make you feel at home, but in my own way. So this is how we started actually ML Corporate Services and uh and also because when you try to attract international players, as much as they want to know who is on the market, how long has it how long did he operate in in the market, they on they want also to see that you have local players, which demonstrate that we also have faith in what you are doing, and that's the most important actually. We don't know how long we will last, but at least um thinking that we have played our role and we have done our best and uh and not actually live by regrets.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

So, how long have you been uh in the industry? Do you have a partner when you decided to venture out on your own? Are you a solo investor or do you have a partner? And um, if so, how do you go about choosing your partner for this kind of business?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Uh when I started it three years ago, but I've been in that space for five years now, um, because it was kind of risky. I didn't want to involve anyone else. So uh as a shareholder so far, remaining as the sole shareholder. But because sometimes when you are too much involved in your own business, there are some priorities of things you don't see really. Um we have a strong uh board in in and at at the uh at the governance, so I can make sure that they can guide me. They are also coming, most of them from a financial background. Uh, so it makes it also um viable and sustainable. Um, and when it comes now to look at different partners, because we we've been trying to not only focus in Gali or Rwanda, we are looking at other jurisdictions, mostly in Africa. So when we choose countries like Nigeria, Ivoricos, Guinea, etc., we we try to find other African who believe in the continent, who have been there for some time, and who are looking at partners because we have the same vision. So we we we look at the people who are almost in the same field as us, and we do like cross-chill, cross-selling, sorry, because sometimes you have investors coming into Rwanda, but they are mostly interested in targeting other jurisdictions. So having someone in Ghana, someone in Senegal or elsewhere, it's always a good thing because you say that you cannot cover everything and you cannot know better what is happening in other countries which are not yours. So patterning is is is the most important. But now when it comes really at the shareholding structure, you want to make sure that you have covered a lot of elements in terms of governance, in terms of financial sustainability, before bringing people in on the table.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Yes, understood. So really partnership is in different ways for you, right? So it's at the governance board level, it's also in terms of um cross-selling with in different jurisdictions. That's definitely one of my questions. Um, I know I saw um, I think on LinkedIn, you had put up an article around having property in different jurisdictions and you know how to make sure you're you're managing your assets uh in different in different countries. Um can you just tell us how you how you how you work, how you work in different jurisdictions with those companies? Um, do you so if I'm a rondan and I have a property somewhere else, do I come to you first and you put me in touch with some with another company? Or do you just refer me? Um how does it work?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

I think you can look it at um different aspects. As you mentioned, you can come from another jurisdiction where maybe you have not yet covered. And in that case, we first look at that specific jurisdiction, we give some guidelines, and and from there, uh, because we always have and make sure that within our own partner, we we have those who are covering as many countries as possible. And then you can definitely refer to them. It's not an obligation, but at least we can still guide you and tell you that look, you want to go this way. We know that by experience, that specific jurisdiction has those pros, those cons. But for you to move forward, it's better maybe to work with someone on the ground to avoid any surprises. So if it's someone who is already in the jurisdiction we are covering, that's fine. Otherwise, we always try our best to find someone who is relevant who can also support in that area. Because as long as you can have like an idea in terms of uh compliance, legal, etc., when you don't have your own um foot on that specific market, uh you you cannot pretend that you you will be guiding the investor or the client in the best way.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Uh I really want to go back to something you touched upon uh about regrets, right? We really, I think the best way to not have regrets is of course to put yourself out there, but also to have a great plan, right? So, how do we plan for the future? When I think of trusts, uh trust accounts, I think of estate planning. So in our in our country, in our continent, um how do we go about planning for the future uh from from different angles, from having African parents that don't really want to do wills? Um and when you bring it up in family discussions, they think you're trying to kill them off, you know, juju and stuff like that, or you're wishing them, you're not wishing them well, which is not true. Um and then also from from children, right? How do you plan for for for your children and make sure that they have a comfortable future, maybe um a better future than than you had for yourself? So, how do you protect your assets? How do you plan? And really, I guess the question is when do you start?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

So I think thank you for the question, which we which is kind of um difficult to uh to give uh an exhaustive answer. Uh, but for you to start planning for your future, I may say you need to start today. So um culturally and you're never too young. When you look at you don't have to be rich. You don't, not at all. And I think that's the biggest mistake we make uh because we always plan of getting better, better situation, better job, uh, many houses before starting planning accordingly, which is wrong. So I think I believe that the new trend is really to focus on what you are already doing today, what is what what is the the advantage you have, what what are the challenges. And once you are open to that specific question, actually, it means that you have started already planning for your future. Because again, you cannot control everything. You need to go, as you mentioned, uh, by by planning and step by steps. And sometimes we have so many ambitions and we dream so so big that we don't realize that even if I have a small boutique, even if I'm an employer today or employee, what should I do? You are talking about real estate planning, etc. Even if I have just one house today, when you look at that house, you you you know, even if you you you plan to build or to buy, you always have like kind of refurbishment you are doing, et cetera. It's a planning as an example. So when you try also to keep your assets in good shape, it means that you have to plan accordingly. We were talking about the the issues of talking about it within our respective family. This is something they've not been aware of for many years. And I think the most challenging point is also as African to think that tomorrow is not for us. We don't know what will be happening. We are not sure that um through the challenges, either political, social, economical, that we will make through the next five or ten years. So thinking like that also reduces your your potential of for planning better for your children, your grandchildren, etc. Because you don't believe, or you think that actually, even if my parents have been through certain things and then we we had to start from scratch on our own, actually, this is what our children should be doing. And we have that new trend where we used to have that vision of if we were blessed enough to have families with certain assets or wealth, we were already thinking that it's going to belong to us. Now you have a new trend where a family can say, You, I don't trust you. Uh I'm not sure that I'm going to put you on my wheel, whatever it is, because it's going just to destroy everything I've been building for the past 30 years. But you have also the other consideration where you have people who have been building on their assets, they want to have a succession plan, but the children are not interested in managing those assets. They want to live their own dreams, they want to live their own lives. So to come back to your question where you are saying, is it necessary to be rich, young, or old? You have now a new generation where you have very young people who are wealthy at a very young age, but for them to be sustainable, they need to plan because you've seen so many stories where they've been performing. Let's talk about artists, players, etc., even entrepreneurs, but because they didn't, they have not been surrounded by the good people, so everything they've been getting or earning has completely disappeared because they didn't put any compliance in place, they were not doing accounting uh the way they should be doing, thinking that it's something uh which is only dedicated to high night, high net worth individuals, etc. So this is some kind of rules we need to put together and a lot of advocacy because, as you mentioned, anytime I start having that conversation, it's like you are bringing bad luck to the family, you are being bringing bad luck to the to the to the companies. But we should do it differently, like even our own children, you know, we we try to protect them so so much, and then when it's time to go to the university or to the boarding, it becomes a problem because you didn't teach them about anything. So, how do you manage your own money, even if it's pocket money? How do you tell them that actually if I have to buy a house tomorrow because I want you to enjoy a bigger space, it means that you need to sacrifice maybe on the time you are spending in vacation or things like that. So we we need at this at this time maybe to uh to teach it differently and and also having that open discussion, but also making people understand that it's not that because my parents are wealthy, that what they have been building is for me. They've been working hard for themselves. And maybe they wanted to pass it to you, but what did you do to deserve it? And and how am I sure that are you going to give it back actually to your kids, or it's going to be just for fun, to show off, etc. So that's um that that that that's something to consider, but it's a huge topic. When we talk about trust, it's a document. I actually start by this instrument where um Diane is going to put on the paper and say, look, I have these things which belong to me. It can be um a startup, it can be um a house, it can be uh uh art collection, whatever it is. And from there, you are going to identify what we call beneficiaries. Maybe you want all those things you've been building um to be given to uh maybe to your children, maybe to your friends, maybe to some specific people in your family, but this is this is how you are going to structure it. So now this is a legal document. And that's the difference for your next of kin, or is that different? It can be your next of kin, but again, remember that it's not an obligation. Remember that if you now you look at high network individuals across the globe, where you have someone who can decide that the entire asset he has been building is going to be given maybe to a foundation or maybe to uh specific people outside because he's not interested in giving it to their children, their wife and and and relatives. So the the the the the the the first part is to understand what are your wishes actually, what do you want? And it should not be coming as an obligation that if I have assets, it's written somewhere that it has to go to my family, whatever. It's not that I'm preaching that it should go to someone else, but it's also in terms of educating your next of kin, your children, etc., that they need to work for it. So now when you put in place that succession plan, it means that you have the visionary like Diane. She knows where she wants to be in the next five, 10 years. She knows how the property she's been building, how they should be managed, how do we make sure that they are going to continue to generate revenues and not uh and and not facing uh collapsing and all the stuff. So you put it and and it's something which is going to be evolved. You can start with a house today, you can start with a company today, and tomorrow it will be another company where you have invested, or it can be um like uh foundation because you talk about you you are really interested in anything related to social benefit and social impact. So now, today, what do you have and what you have, is it in good order? How many times have you seen that someone was thinking that he has properties because he all he all he owns those properties that everything is going well? Why he never pay the people in charge were not paying any taxes, they've never been doing refurbishment. And at the end, when you look at those assets, he has spent more than what he has been earning, or things have been going very bad because he didn't manage properly.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Thank you so much. So, what I'm getting from this is you need to have assets of some kind, either property or a business, um, something that you want to leave behind, right? Whether to family or to others. Yes, right. So once, you know, young people, you know, millennials are really millennials are really going through it, right? Um millennials say, we don't make enough, we don't have enough to even get our first home, right? So what would what would they do in that case? What do you you know, if they have um, you know, moufunctionnel, somebody who works in an office has savings, what do they what what what do they plan for or how do they plan? Um somebody who doesn't have a lot of assets. Yeah, how do they begin?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

It's it's a it's a good question because you may not have assets today, but as you said, you are you are doing say you you you are you you you are keeping savings. So I assume that if you are doing saving, it's because you have a project in mind. So before reaching that project, you have different situations you need to look at. Uh, are you going to um tap that saving against a loan? Maybe you can build your first home. Are you going to buy shares on the on the on the capital market or invest in a potentially in a in a in a specific uh business? So all of that are tools you can start planning for. And again, we because even as a functioner, you remember that sometimes you don't generate enough revenues. So again, you are thinking about money and how much you need to have to start something. But how many times have you seen, like if you take the example of Rwanda where people are full cooperative, they put 10k on a monthly basis, it can be even 2,000, and because they are 10, 100, they they they they they combine all the amount, and then at a certain time you will be one of the people to get a loan, and maybe you are going in farming, you are going in uh in uh in business, wherever it is. So as long as you take a that routine of having anything structured properly, this is what is going to lead you to the legacy. So you have a bank account. So how do you make the best of it? Um, I know that uh you've been in the banking also for so many years, so you know how to negotiate. Uh, I don't want that money just to sit on a bank account if you don't give me anything. So this is a way also of um planning. You are saying that I may want to um send my kids in boarding school in another country or university. You are not going to wait that he reaches high school to start doing that saving. I know it's complicated, but what are the kind of revenue, even if it's 10,000, even if it's 1,000, are you going to put on the side to make sure that uh it's something which is going to happen? And sometimes it's more even complicated to manage huge money than starting by, because if you have not managed properly the 10 cents you had, it will be difficult for you to manage when you get richer.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

It's the same thing, you know, in the Bible or uh in different uh religious. And spirituality around stewardship, right? You have to first manage a little before you can manage the big pot of gold. So take me back to if you are investing on the stock account and on the stock market, because I know there's a big push for that in Rwanda, and sustainable bonds is something that's driving. Um, if you know, unfortunately, if somebody were to pass away, um, what happens to that investment asset? Does that go to the next of kin? Does that go back to the planning? So it goes back to who you choose. Um, is it divested? What happens?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

This is where the first program starts. If you don't have any plan in place. So um it's it it I believe now, because compliance and governance is really critical when it comes to financial transaction, um, usually uh it's the same when you open a bank account, etc. You have also that mention where they put who will be the next king, etc. So that that that's that's the first thing. But usually we always remain complacent about those things. And we think that if something happened, it would be uh treated on its own. And we've seen so many examples where actually you didn't even have that next of kin, and when your wife wants to have access or your children to that account, it becomes hectical, you need to go to the court, you need to do all those things. So I believe that if you start uh doing it in a way where uh it can even only be as a starting point, having a power of attorney to dedicate be given to someone and saying someone you trust definitely, while you say that let's say if for something had to happen and you have to list uh what are the situation of emergency you are considering uh to uh to give power of attorney to someone, I will expect that Diane and Lidi and someone else are the ones going to manage. So the the law has really evolved when it comes to Rwanda, especially since the the journey of um establishing the Kigai International Financial Center, where you have a specific uh law governing trust, and this is a way of protecting actually the people. You are talking when we started about the will, establishing the will, it's still there. But now the differentiation is that you can have a will and you can have a trust. The difference is that what you have put on will in the will cannot be reflected on the trust. So let's say that you have you have you are part of a wealthy family where you have different properties, a lot of assets, and a trust has not been put in place uh for for the reason we were talking about. So now you have now the the power from the Ministry of Justice to appoint a trustee and say that person is going to do like a list of all the assets in place, etc. So we avoid that um those fights among the family, uh, this is for me, this is for someone else, etc. So when you are lucky enough to have like countries where the the law is quite clear how things are happening, etc., we should take advantage of it because we have so many examples where um even if the will has been in place, you see a lot of fights around it, people are contesting and and other stuff. And now when you have the trust in place, because you can start the trust today, but anytime you are adding something, you you amend accordingly, but at least the trust will prevail. If Diane has decided that the things she has, even if it's just a bank account, is going to be given to her family, wherever it is, no one is going to come and contest. And that's really a big achievement. And that's what we've seen actually when you look at Asia, Europe, and US. This is something they've been doing generation after generation. And it's not just a matter of saying I'm writing that this belongs to this one, to this one, but I'm also preparing them uh in a certain way, even if they don't know what is written in the trust, because it's not an obligation to disclose the information to the beneficiary, but they have their own way to prepare them. I'm sending them to the best school, even if it's not the best schools, I'm making sure that they can be uh financially independent, financial literacy, they can work on the governance, they are following what is happening in the world, etc. And this is the best service you can give to yourself because even if unfortunately you won't be there to uh to witness what is going to happen after you have left, what you don't want to go uh in a shape of mind of saying, oh, this is a this is going to be hell for my kids and my family because they are going to fight against each and other. And also starting educating and saying that, okay, it's not because he has one house and one bank account that it's uh it's a must for him to uh to give it to you. Um as much as you are on the on on this planet, you have also your own responsibility. If you get it, it's good, but if you're not, it's not the end of the the world of you you have also that responsibility to build your own things.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

So a trust account, what I'm understanding is that a trust account trumps a will, right? It's it's excuse me. A trust account, a trust account trumps a will, right? So in terms of hierarchy, it cannot be contested, it's higher, it will always stand.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Um yes, normally, because yeah, because usually your trust, okay, let me define it differently. So you have the trust, a trust is an instrument. From the trust, you will be having an account, but again, it's it's it may not be mandatory. So for your trust to be managed, you need a trustee. This is what we do actually. So the trustee is there to guide you and to make sure that everything you have been building, like either uh it's in Rwanda or in other countries, is going to continue to be managed properly. So this is kind of an agreement you have where you have a trust instrument, and that trust instrument is going to define who is the settler. The settler usually is the one who is putting the trust in place, and who will be the beneficiary. So I can start with one beneficiary, two, three, four. And now you are going to explain within that trust how do you want it to be operating? So are you opening a bank account? And from the bank account, maybe from the revenues you are generating from the properties or from the different businesses, a certain amount is going to be allocated maybe to Company A, to uh my children, my grandchildren, etc. And this is something you put in place and which is going to be amended the way you want, etc. And because the trustee is the one who is following properly with you, if now something happens to the settler, the trustee has now the responsibility to disclose. If if the settler has not disclosed before uh that uh, look, my child, you are going to get this, she's going to get this, etc., the trustee will have that responsibility. So it also helps to have like um a line of con line of conduct where you have that transparency, but also it allows the settler to step back in in terms of managing all those assets and to make sure that the choice he has been doing is the is the good one. Because I can invest maybe in something on the stock market today. I'm generating a lot of revenues, but tomorrow it's going to depreciate or loss, lose the value. The trustee is also there to let you know that by the way, you should be selling it now because uh you are at risk, and then from that money you can invest in in other spaces. So now the the the the trust actually it's a way of transmission, legacy of everything you had, etc., to the next generation or to foundation, whatever it is. But the good thing is for you to avoid the burden of your family, and you know how African family are. If I know that Diane has has uh has a trust, and I know what is in your trust, you don't know how how far can go. So um this is also a way of protecting them. And and and and also to make sure that if something has to happen, especially if you are not given any condition the in between where you are still uh managing everything, um to live in peace, actually, knowing that whatever is going to happen, we have people who can who can handle. And I can even put one beneficiary today, but because that beneficiary is uh mostly um giving me nightmare, I can remove him, you know, and and put someone else and put while the the will initially, because you can still do the will, um sometimes you have people who have been writing the will, but they didn't go to the notary, it's not registered, etc. And when it's disclosed, then uh it's questionable. But if you have done it properly as well, it's something which uh is still valuable.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

So I've heard that wills should be like living documents, right? They should be living wills, you should update them regularly. How often should you update them? And like you're saying, there is a process, right? I don't just write a note and put it under my pillow or under my mattress, uh, like people who save money under their mattresses. It needs to be notarized. Where does it go after? Um, does it does it need to be registered somewhere? What's the process?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

I think there it will depend on the jurisdiction you are and how they are recognized, because um you you have some countries, for example, where um, especially for protecting the wife uh or the children, where uh laws are not really clear, or even if they are clear, they are not really fair. Um let's take an example where passing the time when when when when when your father was leaving, automatically everything is going to be given to his family or to um only to the boys. The girls who are not considered. So um I in in our continent, you still have some gaps when it comes to the distribution uh from from the wheel. And remember that you you say it clearly. Sometimes you have it under your pillow and it's between your pillow and yourself, no one is aware about it. And um that that's where it becomes really important to check uh on the on the jurisdiction you are on the law, at which extent if I give it to the notary, if it's it's given to someone specific, because remember that when it comes to properties, when it comes to wealth management, you you you need to have someone you trust because how many examples as well where people have been taking advantage of those situations and have given it to the notary, and then the notary is going to sell all the stuff and the things, and then when the family comes, you don't see anything else. So, and again, there the the there is one step of writing it, which is the first one, and making sure that document is kept somewhere where uh when it will be the time uh to disclose it, it's going to be respected, which is kind of different of what you have in a trust, because it's already a legal document. You are going to register in an entity. For us in Rwanda, you register it at RRDB. So if someone wants to come and say D D maybe have done something to make sure it's going to Diane instead of uh Patricia, because the the registrar is going to approve it after checking everything, no one can come and protest unless you can demonstrate that there is a fulgerant action, but otherwise no.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

It reminds me of um, you know, putting the the will under the pillow. Reminds me of safe deposits, safety deposit boxes. Exactly. Right? Where you do everything properly, you write the will, you get it notarized, you put it in a safe deposit box, and then nobody knows about it. Nobody knows about it.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

And nobody has the key.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Nobody has the key.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

And you didn't, and you didn't give and and you didn't tell the bank, for example, for for where you put it at the bank, that if something happened, that specific person is allowed to do whatever I ask for. So you you you have the the the thing is that sometimes you you have that brilliant idea to put it in place, but you don't do the extra mile to conclude it or to make sure that you have covered all the aspects. And um actually it's so it's so sad sometimes to see that we've seen our neighbors, our family fighting around it, but we still continue doing the same.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Yes, and I think it comes back to what you were saying of like sometimes like cultural norms, we have to really, you know, the onus is on us, that this generation, to make sure that the generation next doesn't have to go through the same hurdles. And um, you know, the previous generation had different things on their mind, right? Like survival, right? So now we're really talking about protection and continuing um their legacy and and for generations to come. So I think it, as you said before, it all comes back to advocacy and starting with homes, right? How we talk to our parents, our family, having them understand that, you know, we have we've all worked very hard over the past half century or so, right? And we need to make sure that going forward, the children of the next generation don't have the same challenges. So I think my question is um going forward, how do you talk to your own children about money, about planning, um, about you know, really working hard, um, taking nothing for granted? Because, like you said, it's not guaranteed that just because you're the firstborn, you're going to inherit everything. You know, a lot of people can actually just decide to give to charity. Um, they don't have to give to charity. Right. So, what do you how how do you talk to your children?

SPEAKER_00 37:14

How old are they now? Uh 12 and nine. Okay, and uh it's it's it's it's it's a difficult uh conversation, but it's something we we we need to uh to to talk about, and especially when it comes to financial literacy. And um basically we we were before even reaching that point, it always comes with what you have received from from your parents. So when when when you had that um kind of education and it's not academic education, it's cultural arts, moral values, etc. How do we instill it in our own children or our nephew and nieces? It's like I I need to give you some examples. So uh you you you are there complaining that your your best friend is going to, I don't know, to US for vacation and you've been staying here for the past four years. Yeah, but that that that's reality. So um, but when you start telling them, look, I'm going to give you this amount, and this amount is going to be with you. Uh, if I give it today, I'm not going to give you for the next two months or next quarter. How are you going to manage it? And it's quite interesting because they know how to manage it, especially when it's theirs. But when it's mama and papa money, they want to spend. So um we have earn that excess.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

They work for it. Do they do like house chores? Do they help you in your business?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Or is it just uh I I refuse to go on that journey of uh paying because they are doing uh calls at home, because then it's a new cycle where uh they will only do it because they are earning something from it. So you usually uh it's like once in a while you are going to give maybe 20k and say, okay, this money you can buy whatever you want, etc., but it's yours and and and uh manage it properly because I may give it to you uh maybe in the next uh quarter or six months. And uh I remember the first time we had that exercise um at the end because we say, Okay, you you love car like any kid, you love candies, you like to go out to the restaurant, etc. We are going to take a portion of this, and uh, mom and dad are going to tap in and to to to tap in the money. And um, you see how they think uh when they know that we are going to the candy shop and it's papa who is going to pay it, I can tell you that they take full opportunity of it and buy almost the entire uh lines of candies, but when they know that this is a time, they are willing to fight with the cashier because the cashier is not giving back the money. So I think this is a good example, and it's not a matter of giving a lot of money, it can be 100, it can be 1,000, but to make them understand that even them, when they come to us next time and say, I want these shoes, I want to go to the restaurant, I can tell them I don't have that money because I'm have invested in something else. We need to go to school, we need to pay for the activities. So they have they they have now a feeling because we they they they were also bringing that conversation of saying, oh, they should be having pocket money when they do the course, they should be paid. I said, mm-mm, because when you will be living on your own, you will be having you will have to do your bed, uh washing dishes. And anytime we put a condition that in vacation, in uh during the the the weekend, the dishes and the and your bed, it's your own responsibility. That's where they start. Oh, you know, my my friends, when they have to do the dishes and now they are getting money. I say, I'm sorry, for in this specific uh house, the rule is not applicable, you won't get anything because because actually you are eating on a daily basis, you are not paying a rent, you are not doing this. But I I think this is the only way to make them understand that um they should be um grateful for for for the things they are getting. Even even if they wish for more, they need to understand that they have to work hard, and even if they work hard, it doesn't mean that they are going to get it. So um again, it's not something you plan for the future, it's from today. How many times do we see, even us as entrepreneurs, it's always funny to judge entrepreneurs when you say that uh they want to do everything, they want to control everything. You don't realize that when it comes to some specific skills like managing people, doing your accounting and other stuff, this is not something you you you you build overnight. This is skills you need to learn about, and it's uh it's a continuous learning process. And if you don't have the right resources, it's difficult for you to build for future. And you've seen how um many times for the entrepreneur and and even if you get that funding, that grant, it's not a guarantee that your business is going to be viable because you cannot do everything. And again, if at a very young age you you you didn't get any cash in your hand, if I give you too much cash and I don't have that uh governance and compliance structure, accounting, I'm going to fail.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

I know you know you've just talked about something very interesting, values and gratitude. And I know you're a Rotarian. Can you speak a bit to you know how that that ties into your like your work ethic of um service above self as a Rotarian, and how you, you know, you're you're teaching your children some of those values and how it all ties into the work that you do today.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Uh thank you. I I I think for myself, there is no dissociation when it comes to values uh to be applicable to my professional life and my personal life, because you don't have, I believe you don't have to, you don't have to identity. I cannot be someone when I'm doing my business and someone else when I'm coming to my personal life. So the values when it comes to servicing, service above self, it means that at the end of the day, are you happy of what you have achieved? Are you happy of the way uh you've been behaving? Yes, we remain human, we make mistakes, etc. But if you stand on your own values and moral, actually um it becomes like a routine. And and and usually this is something you apply even more when it comes to professional. Life because today we are living in an open world where everyone has access to social media, etc. So if you don't pay attention, uh, not that you do it because uh you you want people to see on a certain way, but it's because you believe in it. So we we we've been talking about trust, etc. No one is going to give you his money if he doesn't trust in, he has no trust in you. So what do you do when you have that recognition or when you have that trust to make sure that the person who came to you with honesty and integrity, you are also going to serve him the same way. So when it comes to uh social impact through rotary, usually as much as you are giving, you are also receiving. The difference is that um it's not a financial reward, it's more in terms of social impact. And and the value attached to that uh social recognition or social uh impact activities, it's way beyond what you may even define in terms of financial means. So when when you go for an action where uh people can can can go to the doctor and and get surgery uh for free because people have been putting money together to make sure that it's going to happen. When you look at that person and you see how that person feels or looks at you like um you have saved um something you cannot even measure, that's where you can say it's it's it's worth it. So now when it comes to your professional life, it's more in terms of how do you connect with others, how do you interact. And we we are also a generation where we want to think so fast and we don't want to work so hard. And you you even those relations become like financially driven. If if if I'm talking to Diane today and someone else tomorrow, I may not get something from it personally, but you never know what you have learned from that conversation and where it's going to bring you as next step. So now, maybe because you are getting older as well, you have that conversation we used to have with parents. Please respect everyone, have dignity, don't judge someone uh on because uh you have seen him wearing sandals, why he should be wearing Gucci. It doesn't mean anything at the end of the day because you don't know how and and uh how you will be working with that person. That person can save your life, and and and you've been treating him like like nothing. So those values are really important, especially that now because people um are more hard to trust those days. We are coming back to those real values actually, where uh people are going to test you. You you you can talk to someone for for for uh an entire year without geking anything, and even you have even forgotten that you've been talking with him, and then he comes back. So we we have also as African that approach where people um want to feel safe, want to talk to you, and and and and sometimes you just get uh it gets on your nerve because you say, but he's asking me so many questions, he's been asking it for so long. Why don't we decide? But it's a way of testing. So if you don't have that patience and and uh being open, you you you you don't get anything. And at the end of the day, actually, it's only relationship now, before even money. And um, that's where actually we make some error.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

That's true. I think you know the best business people will tell you that you know their their businesses have grown due to relationships. And I really like that the the the trust instrument is called trust because it fundamentally comes down to that, you know, whether it's your next of kin or whoever you decide your company you're working with, whoever you decide to put as your trustee, um, needs to be somebody you truly trust and somebody who does have integrity. Um, and I think it all comes down to you know the goodness of people, but also how you've lived with people, how you've worked with people, and you've you know the relationships that you've built with people over time, right?

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Um and you are reliable because today if it's yeah, it's it's it's highly regulated in the sense where uh you need to be licensed, and and uh it's not everyone who can wake up in the morning and saying I'm going to be a trustee, because if something goes bad, uh you you can go in jail, actually. So um, what do you do? Someone can say it's fine, I can go in jail, I will be a billionaire. Um, but again, what what do you want to leave as a legacy? Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

You know, I'm sure you know, as you've built your business and as life has continued to progress, you've had some moments that have tested you deeply, right? You talked about being tested before in business. Um, what has helped you keep going through some of those challenges that life has thrown at you?

SPEAKER_00 49:15

I think it's being naive as well, and uh always always always hoping for the best and have a strong faith as well in God. And and and and maybe being always um having that capacity of uh of uh stepping back and and laughing at yourself and and thinking about the things you've been doing well, the things you've been uh doing very bad, uh, because you you you you learn through it. And if everything was so easy, I I think as human we won't do anything and we won't reach anything. I've learned that the the the hardest time you can go through, actually, it's the time which is going to build you as as a human. And now again, it depends on what you want to do uh or to learn from that experience. I can be bitter, uh I can be very negative, etc. But where is going to uh bring me if I if I have that attitude? It's not that you are going to keep smiling on a daily basis, etc. But once you have faced that challenge, is you have only two ways. Either you continue, either you find another alternative, but you cannot just stay there and and uh and wait for people to save you or uh because when you went through, and and I think it's for everyone, if you went through hell some days, it's it's it's it's really shapes you differently in the sense where um first you are grateful again about what God has done to you and how many times he came to the rescue, but always uh in the sense where even if you want him to help you, you have to show you have done something. So challenges I think are both because it's it's a way for you uh to do that introspection and uh to be better as well, and and uh and uh to go far. And I believe that you always have another solution. If you cannot carry it anymore, it means that you have also to be humble enough to understand that this is the end and you need to move to another chapter.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

Yeah, I'm a strong believer that um challenges build character, right? Um, I don't think God would put us through anything that we can't handle, um, but it's to strengthen, it's to strengthen our character, and our character needs to become stronger so that we can do what our what we're here on earth to do, right? The purpose that we're here to serve, right? Um I think you know what I love so much about this conversation is that it's and about this this show, this podcast, is that it's really about um living fully, right? People who have decided, chosen to be intentional in what they do, but it's not just their work, it's through their work, their life's work, right? And their life's work also involves their family, um, their friends, and the way they show up in the universe, right? Um, if I was to ask you, you know, about living fully, um what when you think about living fully, what does that look like to you? Living fully, living intentionally, um, what does that look like to you?

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Uh thank you. I I I think it depends on the days and uh and and and and the mood sometimes, but usually I will say intentionally it's really doing things because you want it, um not because you are forced to do it. Um definitely you have some aspect where you still have responsibilities and uh and you cannot run from it, but as long as you keep having that faith and and know uh what you want to achieve and what legacy you want to leave to your kids, um then you you continue to push yourself. And and and usually when I start feeling too much anxious or uh I feel like I'm I'm I'm losing it a bit, uh that that's why you have uh sports activities, doing a lot of meditation, etc. Going out with with the people uh you can talk with uh truly and and uh in transparency. So it's it's mostly about that being consistent. If I decided to, if I take that decision actually, um I should be working completely and uh being convinced that what I'm doing is it's good, uh, keeping those values at at the core of everything I'm doing. And again, to to say that the only regret should to to have in your life should be uh that I have done it, I've tried my best, I didn't succeed, but I have done it. So that that's for me the definition of living intentionally. So giving everything with your love, with your passion, and um and as much as you can serve others also. Actually, it's it's the best. I know we're over time.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Thank you for all of your patience.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

No, it's fine. We love talking. See you soon. See you take care. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dan Decidi podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on YouTube, follow on Instagram, and reach out at ddocidy at advisory.com. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, live strategically and with purpose. See you soon.