Ottessa Moshfegh's "My Year Of Rest And Relaxation" with Luca Max!

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Host: Mariah Moore
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mariah.l.m
Substack: https://mariahmoore.substack.com/
https://www.mariahmoore.com/ 

Guest: Luca Max
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yucamax/
Other Insta (yay pole!): https://www.instagram.com/yucamaxx/
Luca's Theatre Company!: https://www.instagram.com/lestalonsfous/

Music by: Daniel Callihoo
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielcallihoo

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome everybody to another episode of Pretty Well Read. I'm your host Mariah, and today is our first in-person episode. I've got um Lifetime Reader, longtime friend, and forever artist Luca Max. Hi. Happy to be there with Mariah in person. When I offered to bring my mic and be in person, we were both ecstatic. So that's great. Correct. I was a little trepidatious of the setup because it's not very professional yet. And I'm literally moving in three days at the time of this recording. So there's my bed on the floor. We don't even see it that much, so it's fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

What do you mean bed? You mean my office? Um, and I've got some in-person notes because um I'm professional like that. And if you're new to Pretty Well Read, what we do is each month I have a new guest on um, friend, artist, fellow book lover, and we talk about their relationship with reading. And then the rest of the episode is kind of a focus on a book that means a lot to them or something they really wanted to talk about. And in this episode, we're talking of Tessa Moshfeg's My Year of Rest and Relaxation. So part one, we're gonna talk about Luca's relationship with reading. Part two, we're gonna get into some uh no spoilers uh questions about the book.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

And then if you stick around to part three, we're gonna get into the spoilers into the tea.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Oh, the tea. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

The literal tea, the tea we got that is too hot. It's too hot to drink. Yeah, we'll be drinking eventually.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

It's fully also 24 in here.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

It's so hot in this bedroom. I mean, I'm in a tank top, so it's not too bad to be honest. Yeah, it's fine. I'm just like sweating by the time we get up. I don't see it. It's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Um, but yeah, I always start out with my guests, like the same question: how did we meet, Luca?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Oh wow. So um I'm a pole dance pole dance teacher, among other things, and uh Mariah came to one of my classes, and then eventually I was like, okay, Mariah is a cultured baddie. Okay, and we started talking about books, and eventually we started running together, and then we were hanging out together, so this just morphed into a great friendship.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Yeah, so yeah, exactly. And yeah, I signed up for um a poll class and I and I saw on the schedule it said Luca Max, and I was like, Oh my god, they hired a man. That's so fun. I'll take this man's glass, we'll give him a chance. And then I when I saw Bestie, I was like, you know what, this is better.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

It's it's a recurring problem in my life. Like the amount of hi, Mr. Luca Max, I get in my emails is I mean, it's fine. I understand. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Has it ever like benefited you in like a they saw your resume way? Oh, really? Yes, I bet get that mail post.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

I was 17, I believe, and I was looking for like a summer job. Yeah, and I applied at this ice cream place, not really knowing what I was applying for. And I got a call and they were like, Can I talk to Luca? And I was like, Yes, it's me. And they were like, Oh, are you sure? And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. Um, and so they offered me this job in the kitchen of the ice cream shop. Oh, okay. And they were like, you know, it's really physically demanding. Like you're gonna have to lift 30 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Oh my god, 30 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I was like, Oh, yeah, I mean, I can I think I can do that. Like it's not too bad, right? Yeah, I'm a spry teenager. Yeah, I mean, also I'm I'm five eight, you know, I can lift 30 pounds, it's good. Um, so they didn't really have a choice but to hire me because they couldn't just say no, because you're turns out you're a weak woman. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And then I ended up being the first girl being hired in the kitchen, and after this, they noticed that girls were way better than guys, so they ended up only hiring girls in the kitchen. That's so cute. It was an ice cream shop? Yeah, that's so cute. Yeah, it was my way of doing feminism. So that's good.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

I feel like I've heard with ice cream shops, confirm or deny, that the physically strenuous part is the scooping.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

So I wasn't doing the scooping because I wasn't in the front. Right. But it is. I heard a lot of people get um tendonitis. Oh god, yeah, and like carpal tunnel, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, because it is very physically demanding, yeah. Cause and they do it all day. Yeah, especially some ice cream shops get really, really, really busy. And especially when you only have like hard ice cream, yeah, pass then, yeah, but it's good. I love ice cream.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah, Luca has had like 17 million jobs and counting, currently has 17 million jobs, but just like myself.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Yeah, I was gonna say we're not that different if it comes to that. Yeah, we could do a podcast just on like all of our jobs. Welcome to the job. Welcome to the job podcast where we talk about all the jobs we're done. Oh, that's good. You know, I almost chose martyr because of the standardized patient one, but I didn't like that book enough.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Okay, we will get to that. I didn't put it in the brief, but I should have.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

But that is a scalding take. That is such a hot take. I love that book. I'm sorry. But um, to back it up, reading. When did you get into it? Were you always a reader? Was your fam reading? What set the scene? Um, I think very early on, my family was very my dad has always loved books. So even when I was a kid, like very, very young, we would read books together, even when I couldn't read.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah, back in Germany. Right?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Back in Germany, exactly. Um, and so I started reading from a very young age, and then when I arrived here, like the the earliest memory I can kind of recall would be in the library at my elementary school, okay, where I would always take out a bunch of books, and I was always so excited to go to the library, like we would go once a week, and the other kids were like, yeah, and I was like, So yeah. I remember when I was like, I think it was like in second grade, I read the entire Narnia series. Classic. Um, and yeah, I've always loved to read, and I feel like it's something that I kept going through the years, despite my very busy schedule.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Um, and also whenever I was learning a language, it's something that I would always go for. So, like learning English, I started reading books when I was 15, and I was like, okay, now I have to get better.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, yeah. Oh, interesting. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

So you started like f fantasy, uh kind of otherworldly kids books. Is that mostly what you were reading when you were little? Uh when I was little, yeah. Everything anything that had like creatures and like fights and kings and whatever, like especially the fucked up creatures, like trolls and shit like that. That's Spider Wick. Um, I have no clue what the name is in English, but Chronique du Boudimon. It's like chronicles of the end of the world, no clue. Oh, cool. And dystopian. And like the drawings were so beautiful, and I was just like, oh my god. Um interesting. The Bartimius trilogy, I think, don't know her. With like gins and everything. It's amazing. So yeah, anything a bit like fantasy, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

It's funny because I was going to ask originally whether or not like reading has influenced you as an artist in other ways, but then I was like, that's kind of far-fetched to go from like reading preferences to like poll performing and teaching.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

But but some of your performances have been so otherworldly and campy. And if you've seen Luca perform and you've seen her be a frog on the pole, I'm like, that actually makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I think I think it's always something I've loved, like the the strange plots or just like the characters and how um how far we can go from reality. And I think that's something we are exploiting right now with Li Tarun Fu, my theater company. Um, we are these very strange clowns, and I feel like there's definitely something um like fantasy-ish that stems from that. So yeah, I wouldn't say it's like the main influence in my work, but it definitely shaped the way I see like boundaries of art kind of thing. You can explode them. It's fine. Interesting. Yeah, it's definitely it seems to be like a through line with all your facets of art that you engage in, right? I live to be a troll. Um, I also wanted to ask, so growing up in Germany, you grew up multilingual.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Like what when you when you started reading, you read primarily in German.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

And how does like reading books in a different language change the experience? So when I was a kid, I moved here when I was six and a half years, like almost seven years old. Um, and I can't like I recall reading books in German. I remember like a few specific ones. Yeah. Um, but when I was little, I didn't read in French. Like in Germany, I wasn't reading in French, or at least from what I can remember. Yeah. You totally could have been. Well, yeah, with your parents. Well, maybe maybe with my mom. Like maybe she read books in French for me because I wasn't that good in French when I was in Germany. Like when I arrived here, I struggled. Yeah, I struggled. Yeah, yeah. Like I would be in class and I had to take this exam, uh, like a government exam, to make sure that I could go in second year.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

Because I wasn't I did my first grade in Germany, and I started when I was five, so I already had like a gasion, no clue what that is, but like a the special pass to go. Oh, like you were grandfathered into it. I it was like, oh, first grade you can go at five years old. And so I arrived here, had to do this little exam, and they were like, Okay, you're good enough in French to keep going. You know, you don't have to do the first grade again. Um, but I remember sitting in class, and like sometimes the teacher would say words, and I was like, Huh? I was like, what the fuck does that mean? Like I remember that was so bad. I had to go to an like my mom wanted me to get admitted in this like science school, okay, science elementary school.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

And so I had to do the exam maybe like a few months after arriving here. Okay. And so we get to the to the exam, and the the the question part was fine, and then they ask us to draw ourselves with as much detail as we can. Oh, okay. I had no clue what the word detail meant. Oh no. Okay, no clue. Okay, like no clue. I was sitting there and I was like. So I was like, a stick figure is you, you're like, I didn't. Oh girl, I drew myself and I was like, here. And then I came back home and I was like, Mom, I have no idea what it meant. So yeah, that was great. So when it comes to reading, as I said, like usually I when I started reading in English, it's because I wanted to get better. Sure. So to like have more vocabulary and just in general be able to read um, like more advanced books, yeah. Um, or more literature. And I feel like it doesn't change that much for me. Um, obviously, the pace of reading, for example, if I read a book in German, it is gonna take me longer than if I read in French or English. French or English is kind of the same by now, so that's fine. French is long, French books be thickies because French uses more words than in English. It does, so it takes longer. Yeah, yeah, no, that's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But some books are quite long. But um, and it's always nice, like whenever I stumble upon a book in English where there's a lot of like very you said a word at the beginning of the recording, trippy, trepidation. Oh, trepidation. Like when you hesitate if you're like and then French is the same, like yeah, but or like but it's um yeah, I'm always happy to like learn you funny words. Yeah, yeah. That we never use in something in life. Yeah. So BTS too. So if you are new to the podcast, I live in Quebec, but I don't speak French. I understand more of it every year, but it's rough. But it's doing good. Yeah, trying sometimes. But speaking of words that are kind of close but can mean different things. I've been doing yoga a lot recently, which has been great. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

But the yoga teacher, whenever we would transition into like another move, she kept saying, usually they say like prochain, oh yeah, the next on the next like inhale or whatever, which is I guess, which I get, but she this one teacher kept saying tranquillement. Tranquillement, yeah. Yeah, and I was like, Tranquil? I was like, I'm already tranquil.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

I'm at yoga, I'm already peaceful, I'm already by like why is she telling me to like bliss out? And then I asked my Quebec Wa boyfriend, and he was like, it can also mean like slowly. And I was like, Oh, I was like, Bestie, I'm already tranquil. Why are you? I just imagine Mariah in like a cat cow, and she's like, I'm very chill. Yeah, like I'm you don't need to tell me to chill. Don't tell me to calm down. And then I was like, oh, slowly would make sense. But listen, there are words like that. For a very long time, I thought frisky meant cold, so it's fine. Oh no, yeah, uh, it's okay. That's so funny. I said it once, and a person looked at me really weird, and I was like, Yeah, fuck my life, I think. Yeah, it's fine. I was then my third grade teacher told me that bodacious meant nice, and so I kept calling like adults I knew bodacious, which means sexy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, yeah, what why would she tell you to fuck with me? And I'm like, maybe not me to fuck with people, but no, it's very like 1999 COVID. Oh my god, yeah, well, yikes, both bodacious in both ways, yes, but um thank for the tension. But uh now these days, so you grew up kind of reading in different languages, using books to kind of learn new languages, fantasy vibes. What do you read now? What are you reading today? Okay, today I'm re well, it really depends. Like I love National Geographic, so I'm subscribed to that, so I always end up reading a bit of National Geographic every month. Um, right now I'm reading uh Le Conte de Monte Cristo. Okay, classic. Yeah. Um, it's really fucking long, 1600 pages. So now I think I'm at a thousand or something. Yeah. Uh it's really good. I didn't expect it to be that good. I was in Panama in April, and right before leaving, I noticed that I didn't really have any books left that I wanted to read. I had like a very thick book, which is like a documentation. I know I'm not sure it's the right word, but whatever documentation of the first world war. Okay, so it's essentially 600 pages of everything that played out during first world war, and I was like, Jesus. I'm going on vacation. Yeah. Um beach read. No, and I had like another one which was like a poetry from like way back and like a play written by a Greek playwright. I yeah, the and so I looked around in my boyfriend's stuff, and he had Le Condemon de Cristo, and I was like, Okay, well, this seems like a good contendant to like read. And I started reading it, and I was like, wow, this is actually amazing. Yeah. Because like in some books written a while ago, I feel like the pace is the like it doesn't translate to be appealing now, exactly, or it's just very long and it drags and whatever. This is a fucking adventure book. Oh, really? It's so good. Oh my god. Oh my god, I love it. And you root for the character so much you want him to kill everyone and to be the winner. So so yeah. So that's what I'm reading right now. Um I when I can, and there's like good fantasy books of like authors that I know I'm gonna read it. But I would say mostly like I'm waiting let me check what I read lately. I read Martyr. No, listen, it's not that I hated it, I was just not a big fan. But um, what did I read? I read Yellowface this year. LR. I read Project Hail Mary, which was really sci-fi. Okay. I read a book in German, which was really good, which is basically the same plot as Yellowface, which is funny. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Um, I read a few from Quebec uh writers, another one in German. Yeah. Like a bunch of stuff like that. There was one from a French author that won like a prize, Emmanuel Carrère. It's called Corkos, and it's about his family that came from Georgia, and it's like a very historical novel. It's really good. Oh, cool. So yeah, that's what I've been reading. So just kind of like whatever speaks to you. Are there any genres that like you don't fuck with? You're like, I'm not gonna read of romance. To be honest, I'm not a huge fan. Of romance? No. Fair. I tried once and I was like, Yeah. It doesn't like I don't know. Especially like when I hear about the the novels about like 300-year-old fairies that okay, yeah. So that's romantic. See? Yeah, but like have you read a contemporary just like a full-on romance novel? I don't know. I don't think so. I feel yeah, it's fair. Yeah, fair. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. My life is a romance, true. So that's true. Luke is very happily almost betrothed. So I'm good. Yeah, yeah. But but no. Um, and maybe I'm not huge on sci-fi. See, I really love Project Hail Mary, but I have read sci-fi books where I generally wanted to off my it's too much. It's it's a lot. Yeah. I'm like, you kind of have to be like science and technology minded, which is there's nothing wrong with that. But if you don't like naturally fuck with those things, reading the long descriptions just I'm like, but sometimes I feel like I don't care about your robot. Fully that. Like I don't give a shit. Yeah. So yeah. And I think that's mostly it.

unknown 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Of like things, and there's yeah. Oh, we're gonna talk about the DNF books, right? Okay, so I'll leave it for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh do you five-star rate your books and what would like a five-star look like to you? Okay. I think. So for example, there's like Project Hail Mary for me was a five-star.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

For different reasons than other books would be five stars, you know. So, for example, if you take that one, it was very like it was fast-paced. It's not a criteria for it to be fast-paced for it to be good. Yeah, but it helps, obviously, because you want to finish the book in like one read. Um, when I'm surprised throughout the book, when everything is very, if you can expect it, I'm like, Well, are you easily bamboozled? Because I am. I'm so I'm so easy to be tricked. No, sometimes I read a book and I'm like, oh, is this gonna happen? And then 300 pages later it's exactly what happens, and I'm like, oh. I would never, I'm I'm always like, What? Like stare, I'm like a toddler staring at. But um, and I really like when characters are not appealing, but just like you wanna, you know, you feel for them. And it's funny because in this book, she's not very, you know, you're like, oh, you're a bit of a bitch. Yeah. But at the same time, she was likable in other ways. Yeah. But um but yeah, so I think that the pace, um, I don't care about the length of the book. I know that's a criteria for some people. I really don't care. Yeah. Um, and it's just as long as the story spoke to me. Like I don't I don't have a specific I feel like every single story from a person can be interesting if it's written properly and it's just conveyed in the proper way. So I would say that, yeah, my criteria criteria criteria is plural. Criterion my criterion or you can criterion. This um they're kind of you know, they vary.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah, fair. Interesting. I say, so like I've I've explained this before, but actually on the last episode, I'm I'm kind of considering changing my mind, but like a four and a half star book is like that was a really great book. Like for its genre, it hit the spot like mood reader-wise, but a five-star book is like something I could recommend widely without thinking twice about it. Okay, like even if yeah, even if like so-and-so is not a sci-fi reader, but uh, but Project Hail Mary hit, I'd be like, you would still like this, even though it's not your normal genre because it's a five-star book. Oh, that's good. Yeah, but the last episode, if you watched, if you caught um brain worms, it is so is really well written, but it is so fucking grotesque. Like it like it is about, spoiler alert, kind of not really, but it's about like having a fetish of having like maggots and worms inside you with something like fuck bro, okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

It's like classified as like extreme horror, and that's just like what if it's the best book ever, but it's just ultimately not gonna be for some people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like it's not fair to books like that because I can't I won't recommend them widely because there are so many trigger warnings. So I'm so I'm considering flexing on my criteria there, but oh, but I understand though. Yeah, have you read Glomorama by Brett Easton Ellis? No, uh it's intense, it's like celebrity well not celebrities, but like B-list celebrities kind of that are rich and it's just the life of the party for 500 pages, but like but crazy. Okay, you know, like intense. Yeah, there's like 20 pages of an orgy. Oh it's really intense, but like I loved it. I was like, this is a great book, but at the same time, no character in that is likable.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, okay, good.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

So I I'm sure not sure anyone would like it. So probably that would probably be like a four or four and a half stars for me, but for other people, yeah. That's that's a good like baseline. Yeah, you kind of have to flex a little bit because like you know, it could be a beautifully written and a masterpiece to you, but maybe it's not for your great aunt Carol. Exactly.

unknown 21:00

Maybe it's not for her.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Girl, I wouldn't recommend that to any person in my family because they would be like Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Like people would tell me about like when I was posting about brain worms, they were like, Oh my god, this sounds good. I'm like, oh my god, read the content warnings, please.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Like, don't don't put this on me if you don't have a good time. But I really liked it. Yeah, just like a little life. I loved it, but like, yes, hot take.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

I've talked about this with uh somebody else in the podcast, but uh people too who just think it's trauma-porn for the sake of being trauma porn.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

But I don't agree, but like at the same time, yeah. I I don't know why people would say that because it's still a story that could happen to someone, yeah, and it's not written in a way where it's enticing. We're not like oh yeah, it's happening. It's not like glamorized, no, not at all. It's disgusting, and he's in pain and he suffers the entire time. I was miserable when I read that book. So yeah, I remember crying in the corner of my school. Yeah, but I can't imagine somebody having a similar life to that and being like, You trauma porn, your life is trauma porn. Like that's not. I know. And also, there are trigger warnings. Like, you know what to expect. So, like, just don't read it if you feel like this is true. Um, but speaking of books that are controversial, how often do you DNF books? Girl, it happened to me once in my entire life. I never DNF. Yeah. What was the book? So I'm stubborn as hell. Okay, so if I start a book, I have to finish it. Um, it was Voyage au bout de la nuit by Céline, who is like a very famous French author. And it's basically so I read like the first 200 pages, I think. Um it's a story about a man who goes somewhere in Africa, like in one of the colonized countries by France, and he basically treats the locals like shit. Oh. And he catches malaria and like whatever fucking disease you can like dysentery, like name it, he had it. Um it was so and I mean I understand sometimes you read books that were written in like the 1900s or like the 1800s where racism wasn't like a thing. So sometimes there's comments and you're like, yeah, okay, that didn't age really well. No. Um, but this was like fucked up. Like, fucked up. Like it wouldn't have even been cool back then, kind of vibe. Um, I mean, back then it was probably kind of whatever. Yeah. Um, but reading that now, I was like, this is not necessary for me right now. Like, I don't need this. Yeah. Like he would basically sexually assault like local women, and I was just like, what the fuck is this? So yeah, no. It was pretty bad. And just the way he would describe them, I was like, I don't need this in my life. So after 200 pages, I was like, fuck you. Yeah, fair. You go away. So yeah, that's the only book I think I've ever DNF'd. That is crazy. Oh my god. Was it long? Because if you're like 600 pages. Oh, okay. I really gave it a fair shot. I was like, maybe it's not gonna be as bad. Maybe the character is intentionally a piece of shit, you know. But then as it kept going, I was like, no. I'm actually good. Yeah, I'm that's fine. Like, I don't care about this one. Yeah, yeah. That's so crazy interesting. And I think, yeah, that was the only one. Maybe like a some plays, theater. I would like I skipped chapters. Sure. Cause sometimes it's just not. And usually when I write I when I read a play, it's because I want to have something from it, kind of. Um, like get ideas or whatever, and then yeah, some plays are just not it. Not it.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Yeah, fair. Yeah. Um okay, so I think this is a good uh spot to talk about martyr then.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

We're talking about Kavey Akbar's Martyr, which is like award-winning, very like globally popular. I thought it was beautiful. Why didn't you like it? Okay, so I wouldn't say I hated it. Okay. Okay, but for me, it was like a was it overhyped? I don't know, like, see, that's the thing. I didn't really it's not like I was on book talk constantly and like hearing about martyr being the best book in the world. A friend of mine lent it to me, and obviously you were the first one that told me about it. Especially, I'm a standardized patient too, so it was really funny. She told me about like Cyrus, I think the character's name is, and that he was a standardized patient, and like that it was funny. Yeah. Okay, a few things. Cyrus as a whole didn't find him likable at all. Okay. Okay. Um to me, he was like just a classic man, man. Sure. And like I hated that about him. I found him annoying sometimes, and he was like not really nice to his friends, and like, oh, I'm a poor victim of life, so I'm just gonna take drugs and like yeah, and like be yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, whatever. Um, I feel like I've seen these men too often in my life to like feel any empathy for them, unfortunately. Sure. Um, but the part like I would have liked for this story to be about his mom. Sure. Yeah. His mom had a very interesting story. Yeah, amazing. Her mom, Orkide, like the whole thing where they meet in the museum and whatnot. I spoiler alert. I called it from I did not moment number one. I was like, I was like, she's an Iranian artist. Yeah. Well, I was like, it's the friend, it's the lover. Yeah, but I was like, no. I was like, no, there's a plot twist here. And especially when they started talking about like them escaping, her and Layla, and I was like, mm-mm, yeah, it's it's the mom. Oh so, but listen, maybe you know, I'm I'm sure it wasn't like the main thing that annoyed me. Um but so yeah, her arc was amazing, but then Cyrus and his dad, and I understand there's like an immigration story and like that, you know. Um so it adds a depth to it. But to me, his character was not likable at all. Interesting. And not even like I didn't find him interesting. Okay, got it. Do you know what I mean? It's not even like she's not likable at all, but she's interesting in a way. Like what she does is really fucking crazy. What Cyrus was doing was just what every like victim boy does.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

It was it was self-indulgent self-indulgent for sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

And I I know that like you kind of have to like if you're not meant to root for the main character, you kind of really have to be in the right mood for that. And I wasn't rooting for him. I think I hate men in general, unfortunately. And like, especially when I was I was reading this when I was in Panama. And in Panama, I got catcalled so bad every single day. I got harassed. I was traveling alone. It was probably my worst trip alone in my entire life. Um, and so I think I was in a mood where I was like, you don't get to talk. Mm-hmm. You hush hush. Yeah, yeah. So you read it in you read it that recently? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

I thought you read it a long time ago. But yeah, that doesn't help for sure. I wonder had Cyrus been like a woman in transition, like between like grieving and f finding herself.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Like, I wonder if that would have helped. Maybe. Maybe. But I feel like the thing is he wasn't grieving anymore. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's well, because his dad. Yeah, but then then when he talks about his dad, he does like there's no I didn't feel that he was grieving. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. He doesn't seem to be grieving, it was just like because the entire time he just wants to be a martyr and he wants to be like important when he dies, and it's like I had a fucked up ex, okay? And he would say shit like that sometimes, and I was like, You're such a big fucking baby.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

I don't know if I can swear in this podcast. Yeah, please, it's mine. Yeah, yeah, totally. But yeah, and so I feel like that's what made me it gave me the ick. Yeah, fair some pages, Cyrus was talking, and I was like, shut the fuck up, man. You're annoying with did it come through in the character? Did you like Cave Akbar's writing style still? Like, would you I mean it's beautifully written, like the way he he writes is wonderful, and um again, like his mom's story amazing, amazing, and like heart-wrenching hello, and like it's beautiful, and the way like the meetings between her and him at the museum, and you're not quite sure like what's going on and why she's there, and this fucked up exhibition, like you know, but then that's it. Anytime we would go back to Cyrus, or like I'm not a huge fan of poetry, okay. Okay, oh, really? Interesting. You're such an artist in so many ways, and you love the poetry. But dude, sometimes I find poetry so fucking cringy. I'm just gonna do it.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

It's yeah, it's a little like um it can be a little woo-woo in some facets.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

I honestly I'm like yeah, I'm really not a huge fan of poetry. So whenever he would put his poems, I was like, Yep. So yeah, I feel like there's a few components that kind of learn for me in the book.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Do you like so speak talking about because Kaveyak Bar was a poet before he became a novelist and he still is a poet, that he doesn't shed that title. But um, do you fuck with Ocean Vong? Because he I haven't read anything. You should read one of his books and tell me how you feel about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Okay, okay. Because yeah, but I'm I was kind of sad that it was also the standardized patient is not realistic at all. No, you don't think so? No. Well, it has to be standardized, yeah. That's the point, and like that was not so even just reading that, I was like, this is not true to life, accurate. Yeah. And I know he like kind of goes off of scenario and everything, but um interesting. You could never do that. Like the examiner would come in the room and he would be like, What the fuck are you doing? And you would get kicked out. Okay, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Yeah, okay, interesting. So, not writing off Kaveyak Bar completely if you're not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Yeah, but just Cyrus jail. Like, bah. No. That's fair. I can accept it. But like a book about his mom, give it to me. Yeah. I loved her, she was great. Martyr, this is a good one. She was a baddie. She was a baddie. Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I want like the historical background on her stuff. Um another question that I I'm probably gonna work in. I've been asking a lot on the podcast, is like read like spotlighting diverse authors and not just like straight men het authors is like important to the podcast. Do you like make an effort to read diversely? And if so, why is that important?

SPEAKER_01 30:49

It's a good question. I feel like so I buy most of my books in secondhand stores. Um, usually the only place where I buy them new is at airports. Oh really? When I have to like find a book. Um, I think I I really love uh historical novels um from any historical um POV. Yeah, exactly. Um so I feel like sometimes it allows me to just choose diverse books without really having to think about it. Right, without going like I need to read a black author.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Like sometimes I'm like, oh okay, this book is about a certain conflict or like a certain time. And I'm like, this seems interesting. So I feel like that kind of helps me to choose more diverse authors without necessarily having to think about it. Um then do I make a like purposeful choice when it comes to that? I would say I could probably be better. Okay, fair. Um I could probably be better, that's for sure. But one thing I have to say is that if I know an author is like a really bad person, I'm just not gonna buy their books. You know what I mean? Like I always try to do a bit of a background check. Yes. Um, unfortunately, sometimes with books that were written a long time ago, like Cillian, you know, yeah. Um, and I mean most people who wrote books, like Alexanduma, the guy who wrote Multichrist, probably I mean, he was probably maybe he was he honestly his character is kind of progressive, so I'm like, maybe he was not too bad. Yeah, but uh yeah, you never know. But so for I have a good line for those. But yeah, if I were to gamble, I would say he wasn't the liberal king. Which is like in that time, I'm like, yeah. So, but yeah, I I I feel like I could definitely make more of an effort. Um, but is it my main criteria? Unfortunately, not really. I try to be more women just in general, yeah. Like, yeah, but diversity is definitely something I could go for a bit more.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah, fair. I feel like also doing the background check on the author to see like if you fuck with their values is like another piece that we could all do better at, too. Like it's like seeing hype on book talk is one thing, but then seeing that like Sarah J. Moss used Brianna Taylor's murder to promote a new book cover is probably not it.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

Probably not it. Yeah. And when people are like, oh my god, Akatar, Akatar, Akatar, I'm like, do you know that this is this thing that she did and this post is still up? And people are like, I don't care. Oh, but that yeah, that annoyed me. It's when people know and they don't care, I'm like, What?

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Like, if I was an SJM stand and I found that out, I would be like, Oh my god, thanks for telling me. That sucks.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Yeah, I'm gonna donate my books or do something like just like JK Rowling. I'm like, why are people still buying Harry Potter merch? Yeah, she could literally have just like also shut the fuck up and been like fine. Yeah, but she had to be but she decided not to she doubles down like off the biggest. I know, and she gives all her money to like anti-trans. Oh, it's terrible, like groups. So I'm just like, but still being like, yeah, like if you already have the Harry Potter merchant, like whatever. But if you're like, I actively seek out JK Rowling's and bro, if anything, buy it secondhand. Yeah, like if you really want it and you love Harry Potter that much, buy it secondhand. It's fine. We just don't need to give more money to that woman. Nope. Like, because sometimes I see people with like Harry Potter nails or Harry Potter merch, and I'm like, are y'all fucking okay? Yeah. So yeah, it's a lot. I'm judging you. Yeah. Okay, just know that. Um on the reading diversely uh train thought, I um have a TBR cart typically that sits here and it's got three shelves, but I'm moving, but it's got three shelves, and I typically put the whites at the bottom of the cards. So I'm like, if if I'm buying too many authors where they can't all fit on the bottom shelf, I'm reading too white. Okay. So like I I try to do like visual TBR things to be like, am I digesting things from like an intersectional lens or am I reading too many whites? So big wreck. If you can like the little consonant at the beginning, if you can love it.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah, put the whites in their own section. Okay, and then you can kind of visually see like what you've got going on and who you who you can better support.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

So hot tip. That's good. Yeah, yeah. I like that. Yeah, nobody nobody's ever noticed that though. Nobody's ever been like whites. Oh girl, I love pattern recognition. I would have liked to guess, but it's okay. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, yeah, you see all the names at the bottom, and they're all like Johnson, Smith, green, white. You're just like, okay. Yeah, that's somebody. But um, but yeah, I think that was it for the first section.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Quite- Oh yeah, no, I wanted to ask if you engage in bookish content online and why or why not? Do you fuck with like the book community online?

SPEAKER_01 35:40

So on TikTok, I built my algorithm brick break brick, as we say. Um, so I do have some book talk content sometimes. Yeah, it leaks in there. I'm honestly not a huge fan of listening to people give me a book review before I read it. Sure. I'm like, no, I'd rather find out for myself. Um keep listening to the podcast where we talk about a book. No, but you know what I mean. So especially if people read this, it's like an analysis of it, which is good. Yes. When I'm just watching a two-minute video, I don't, yeah. Yeah. Um, so usually what I what I um not come upon, but what I what what hap what arrives in my algorithm, um pardon my English, um, is just pictures, like 10 books that I loved or whatever, and then I just swipe and it's like, okay, this gives me a bunch of ideas. And I have a friend of mine who also loves to read. Um, so usually we're gonna send each other some recommendations, and whenever I see her, I lend her a book, and when I go to her place, she lends me a book. So that's something we always do. So it's really nice. That's so nice. It is really nice, honestly. Um, and so yeah, so I feel like I don't engage in it. You're not like seeking out the book content. No, but whatever you stuck on. Honestly, I feel like I especially going to second hand stores, I feel like it's so fun because you can also have class access to classics and then stuff that is maybe like more local, also from like Quebec authors, um, which is great. And so usually I just kind of go with whatever. I read the back, what do you call that? The back, the back of the back, yeah, the plot summary of the back. Yeah, the back totally. Yeah, yeah. The back of the book. There's lingo that I'm like, yeah. She speaks several languages. We can cut her some thank you. And so I read that and I'm like, okay, does it look cool or not? And then I just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

There you go. That's fair. It's like a big rabbit hole to get stuck in. Plus, you're doing your own social media game.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

You're not trying to have 13 hours of screen time and do all your other things pretty bad already. So, like, yeah, so you're good. Yeah. At some point, I was like, Yeah, I didn't get the addictive gene in my family. And then I look at my screen time and I'm like, fuck my life. Yeah, so maybe that's a little bit more. Don't we all though? Like, it's made, it's made to be addictive for us. So it's so bad. It is bad, correct? But yeah, so I'm not trying to be more. Yeah. Yeah. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Um, but yeah, that's it for the first section of the podcast. If you stick around, we are gonna talk Atessamoshfags, my year of rest and relaxation. So um, see you in a bit. We are talking Atessamoshfags, my year of rest and relaxation.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Um, so if you haven't, if you know nothing about this book, but you just clicked on the video because you were like, oh my god, I'm such a Lucas stan. I want to see what she'd be talking about. I get it. And so I'm gonna catch you up on what the book is about, and then we'll get into some no-spoiler uh discussion topics. So, our narrator should be happy, shouldn't she?

SPEAKER_00 38:34

She's young, thin, pretty, a recent Columbia graduate, works an easy job at a hip art gallery, lives in an apartment on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, paid for like the rest of her needs by her inheritance. But there's a hole in her heart, and it isn't just the loss of her parents or the way her Wall Street boyfriend treats her or her sadomasochistic relationship with her best friend Reva. It's the year 2000 in a city aglitter with wealth and possibility. What could possibly go terribly wrong? Both tender and blackly funny, merciless and compassionate, my year of rest and relaxation is a powerful answer to the question and a showcase for the gifts of one of our major writers working at the height of her powers. So that's what it's about. It's that's kind of like a nothing plot summary, but to like say what it is without spoiling it, I think we can say like our main character decides that she like wants a new reality for herself amidst like her life crumbling apart. So she tries to sleep for a year, yeah, via drugs.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

And I was gonna say with the help of prescriptions of substances. Yeah. Yeah. So a super interesting concept. Um, why did you like what what do you feel about this book and why did you choose it for the podcast? Okay, so I feel like it's a book that um I can fully understand why some people would hate it. It's funny, like the my the friend that I was talking about, um, when I told her that I was going on the podcast podcast was this book, she was like, see, it's on my DNF list. Like she did not finish it. Yeah. Yeah, it's really controversial when I looked it up. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people just think that it's like a I'm trying to find the word in English, like a caprice, or just like it's this rich, privileged white girl who has the luxury of taking a year off and just get fucking drugged up and like sleep for a year. Yeah. And she was like, you know, it made me wish that I could do that for a year, so I just didn't see the point of finishing this novel. Right. Okay. And I was like, you know what? That's really fucking fair. Yeah. Um, I feel like as opposed to a bunch of books that are very popular, um, where you kind of understand why people love it and you could hardly picture how people could not like it. Um, Project Hail May Week, for example. Um I feel like this one is one of the books where you kind of have to discuss it or just see like maybe another point of view to be able to like it or to finish it in some people's cases. So that's why I decided to do that one.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, it's good. I had known about this book like being engaged in the book community for a while, but I've heard conflicting things. Like it was pretentious, like it was too much. Like it's it's a rich white girl doing rich white girl privileged things that nobody else could have the luxury of doing. Um, but a lot of people were like, this is relatable, this is weird, this is something that, like, oh, if I could do this, I would want to know what it's like. So I I've heard kind of both sides of the coin, and so I've been looking for an excuse to read it, and so it's lovely.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

And I mean, I feel like it's also a good um critique of like capitalism and what it forces us to do. Like the fact that she has to think about going to sleep absolutely drugged up for like a whole year to get better in this world is like, yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Crazy. Um, what did you think of?

SPEAKER_01 41:34

So, in terms of writing style, I went into this assuming it was gonna be another martyr. I thought it was gonna be like fluffy prose, and I thought it was gonna take me on a lyrical journey of metaphors and descriptions and like literary, you know, traversing through the woods. But it's really like pared down.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

It's really fast-paced, it's really just like talking to a friend.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

Yep. And it's also it's funny because it's descriptive in the most trivial things of every day. Um, and I love the way it was written personally. Like she she just went over the details of her kind of disgusting daily life, and that's the only thing she describes. Yeah. There's not a lot of description, but there's also a lot of comparisons and a lot of images that she brings up, um, which are never cute or they're poetic, but in a very strange way. Yeah. So that's something I really love. I love when we're not just trying to make everything pretty and lovely. So that's something I really liked. Yeah. And it is fast-paced. Even though it's like a story where kind of nothing happens, um, I feel like you're fully invested. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

You zoom through it for sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

It reminds me of actually, it's funny because you're not a contemporary romance reader, but it the style of prose is like a contemporary romance without the romance. Without the romance part. Yeah. Because it's it's very grounded and very like you're kind of just like with her day by day.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

And I like a part of me kept being like, Well, where's the love?

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Like, I'm like, Where is the love? But there's no love. There's quite it's anti-love, actually. It is very much anti-love. Oh, yeah. I mean, in every single part, like her parents are awful, her friendships are awful, her lover is awful. Her like situation ship for the year 2000. It's fully a situation ship. It's worse than a situation ship, in my opinion. But yeah, so it's I love the yeah, I loved it. I mean, I like this book. Like, I can't can't lie. Love it. So um uh oh, the choice to leave the main character unnamed.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

We don't know the main character's name the entire time, but we know her friend Reba, we know Trevor, we know Dr. Tuttle.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Um that girl, which is she is I would like to read her book. But um, what do you think about the choice to leave the main character's name unnamed? Uh that happens a lot now lately. Did you notice that? Well, oh there's lots of books where I'm like, we don't know the main character's name the whole time. A few on the podcast. Podcast actually. Yeah. See, I didn't really care. Um, I feel like we know so much about her that not knowing her name didn't really bother me. Um, I also feel like in some way she is trying to reset her identity. So to me, the choice of leaving her name out, I thought maybe we would know it at the end of the book. When she kind of managed to like reset herself and her philosophy about life. Sure. Um, but so not naming her to me made it even more anonymous in like her process of trying to do this weird big reset. So I didn't really mind. I feel like it's something that could like not help certain books, but in this case I feel like it didn't really matter.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah. I feel like it when authors do this, it I could be totally wrong.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

People could do it for different reasons, but I feel like it's a way of putting the reader kind of in the driver's seat with the main character, like kind of relating to them more. Because like you don't know, you don't know her main name, her first name, but it could be Luca, for all we know. Like, so it it's it's easier to insert yourself in a way, but I could be totally wrong. That's just my theory about why they do it. I feel like, and I mean this book is also really good when it comes to, I feel like there's certain books where you can make this like mental image of her apartment with like whatever places she goes to, like her her little bodega and like all those places. I feel like it was very, very easy to have a lot of images with this book, the way she describes them and everything. And so, and there's a lot of physical descriptions of the girl as well. So, despite the fact that I didn't have her name, I had such crystal clear images in my head that it's true, like you can kind of think about yourself being in it since she doesn't have a name. It's not like Mary, it's it's this girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

It's we're we're all secretly that Kate Moss looking ass, yeah. Who just wants to sleep. Oh god. Um this book is also, aside from it being kind of like fucked up, it's it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

It is in it's like darkly funny. It's cynical in like yeah, in a cynical way, also in like a gross, crusty way.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Um, do you think the book would have hit the same had it not been funny? Like if this was like deadpan serious, I feel like it would be boring. I feel like the reason why it's funny is because it's pathetic. Yeah, it's not funny because it's meant to be funny.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah, she's not writing one-liners in there.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

No, exactly. It's like not and the reason I think why because I see what you mean, but you know, I don't think it's it's not meant to be a funny book. Like, I don't think it's meant to be a comedy. Do you know what I mean? I think we find it funny because it's so absurd, it's more absurd than funny to me. And so whenever something is absurd, I feel like an easy way to cope with that, or the fact that it's so fucked up and like so intense, and she's she takes so many pills. And I feel like it's more the fact that it's an exact an exaggeration of everything and that it's such an absurd situation that makes it funny.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Um, but the way it's written, there's not a moment where you could read like an excerpt for excerpt, excerpt, excerpt, excerpt, yeah, um, and say, This is a funny part. Like that was a joke. You know what I mean? Yeah, so I feel like it's the whole situation that makes this book really funny because the concept of it is very strange. Um, and then the character is so over the top in her the way she's invested in her mission that you're just like, Yeah, girl, you're unwell. Like it's fine. You're gonna get through it, you know? When your friend tells you something and you're like, Yeah, yeah, that's how we felt.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

That's so funny. That's accurate.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

Yeah, so it's like situationally funny. But but had it not been, would it would I mean then I in my opinion, if it hadn't been funny, if you have a concept like that, yeah, and it's not funny, it's like so serious. I mean, it's probably just poorly written. It's a little bit a little life too. I feel like in that situation, it would have to be a little more lyrical. Yeah, it would have to be a little more prosy if it's not this funny. Well, yeah, because and then because if it if it's this but you don't make it funny, it means there's no exaggeration. Yeah, it means that it's something that could happen and it would just be a girl that takes one ambient every day and it goes to sleep. Do you know what I mean? And it's like that happens every single day. That's that's the daily life of some people. So I'm like, that would be too much of a biography. Yeah, yeah. Reading somebody playing the Sims, exactly. Where the same thing happens every day. That's it. And like waiting for a check or whatever. Yeah. So yeah, I feel like it's the exaggeration and the hyper hyperbowl. Molly. The hyper bowl. Yeah, that makes it yeah, exactly. Um, you could argue that there is plenty to not like about our main character because she's kind of bratty. Yeah. She does what she when she's like grew up entitled and privileged and she kind of carries that through her adulthood. Why were you like, did you find yourself still rooting for her? And why or why not? What I find funny in this book is I feel like it's a book where I didn't care that I didn't like the main character that much. Um, when I was talking about Martyr and like how Cyrus wanted to be this victim and like die and and like be remembered, and that he made he changes society, but then he does nothing in his daily life to change it, you know? She never pretends that she wants to do something like this. She's like, I'm just gonna be uh like on drugs for a year. I'm not pretending I'm doing something amazing. Yeah, she owns it. Exactly. And she's not trying to be a star doing it, she's not trying to bring other people in it, she's not trying to do anything like that. So even though she's kind of she is bratty, she's boring, she's not a very good friend. Yeah, she's an awful friend. Yeah, she has money and she does nothing with it. Um, she's not trying to contribute to society literally in any way, but at the same time, she's just doing it for herself. So I'm like, am I rooting for her? Not really, because there's not much to root for. The only thing I'm rooting for her is like, I hope you sleep. And that you don't die of an overdose, you know. Correct. Um, which is like not much in terms of rooting for someone. Um, so that's something I liked because I I think this book was more about me enjoying the process of what she was doing and her experiment as a whole than her as a character, which is something that I find great that like someone is able to do that with the book. Yeah, because if I don't relate to the main character or if I don't empathize for the main character, I rarely really get into it. In this one, I was like, bro, she's kind of doing something revolutionary without even taking the credit for it. So I was like, You just kind of want to see what happens. It's like watching like you can't when you can't look away from a car crash.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Same thing. Pretty much. You're just like, Yeah, I kind of want to see this outcome. And yeah, I agree, that's a good point. You're uh we're not like rooting for her, but you kind of have to like respect it. Yeah. Especially because she's not dragging other people into this at all.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Yeah, at all. She's not, yeah, she's not like stealing from anyone, she's not, yeah, she's just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

I feel bad about like Reva's attempts to get closer with her and like engage with her and come out and have fun and blah blah blah. Like, if I was main character's friend, I would have been like, oh my god, Slay, that's such a funny project. Like, let me know how that goes. Like, if even if it don't talk to her in a year, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 50:58

I'm a pretty like hands-off friend though. Reva was like, God, yeah. I mean, and Reva's every needy friend that I hate. That I will drop girl. I yeah. I mean, their relationship is so toxic because they're so they're opposites completely. So I feel like Reva's the worst friend for the main character, and the main character is the worst friend for Reva. Like, there's no they're just incompatible as friends. Absolutely, and I don't even understand how they managed to like establish a friendship in the first place. Um, but um oh, and one thing I was gonna say for the question before, there is definitely a notion of privilege that is really interesting in this book because it's like the only way you can do this is you're a rich white girl um who has the means to stay in her apartment in Upper East Side for a year. And like, so yeah, I'm sure we'll discuss about the privilege part, but like it's it's it's cool that this is brought in because it's it's also a critique, in my opinion, of like how this society works, but like that's what you would need to get a year of rest of relaxation, certain, which is which is crazy. Um, but Reva, yeah, to come back to Reva, Jesus Christ. Uh it's a lot. She's the last. We'll get into her also in the spoiler section a little more with Reva. Oh, so I can't spoil anything here. Not yet. No, this is the no spoiler. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 52:10

So we'll we'll put a pin in the Reva things and then we'll uh we'll we'll talk more about Reva in section three, uh very like unchained. Yeah. Um, but actually the privileged thing was something I was going to get into. So she's like white, privileged, rich, het, beautiful, yeah, like in every every type of privilege she got it.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Aside from being a man. Absolutely. Um if she had not been conventionally attractive and white and rich, do you think that that would have changed whether or not you root for her? Not at all. I think it's just what I mean by that is I think it's interesting that because without these, a few times in the book, you understand that she could not have done it.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

With the money, obviously, like the money, there's no question about that. But um, I remember there's one part where Reva and her are talking and it's not a spoiler. Um, and Reva tells her something along the lines of like, but you can't, you can't just um leave life because you have all the privileges. Yeah. And it's like, and she's aware because she says, Yes, I know. She's like, it would be a waste to put my life away while living and having all that. And so I'm just like, this is so strange. Cause you know, she it's ugh, but it's weird. But no, I would have still rooted for the character in the same way because it it wouldn't change the experiment. Yeah. Again, it's about the experiment for me in this book. Yeah. Um, but it probably would have changed something for the character in terms of like socially and just like and relatability, I think, too.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Yeah. But I think like I'm not sure that I would want to relate to her.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

I kind of want to be on-cause you want to relate to her, right?

SPEAKER_00 53:46

I kind of want to be on the outside looking in.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

So, like, the fact that she's so privileged in every sense of the word, it kind of like others her in a way that I can like enjoy it from like a fly on the wall perspective. You know what I mean? And that's kind of how I want to. It's also that's also why I don't feel bad for her. Yeah. I'm like, you're gonna get out get out on the other side of this, and I'm like, you're like, whatever, you're gonna be fine, you know? Yeah, and and this is also why I'm not very invested in terms of empathy in this book, which I find okay. Because again, it's about the experiment for me in this one.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

So yeah, and when you're not like emotionally invested in like a I feel bad for them way, it kind of makes it more like hands-off and fun as a reader.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

Well, if if she gets fucked up, I don't feel bad. I'm like, there's like no stakes. Yeah, I'm like, oh oopsie. There's no stakes in the one too many ambience. I think so. Yeah. Do you fuck with sleeping? Do you nap? Do you are you like do you have a good sleep routine? Tell me about sleep for you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

So not the least is so serious.

SPEAKER_01 54:46

Like, I have I have conflicting opinions about sleep. Sure. Okay. Um, I like sleeping. Yeah. I like it. A bed is great. I love a good sleep. I don't need to sleep that much. Like, I'm good with seven hours. Seven hours, I'm like, woohoo. Um, I hate waking up early. Oh, I hate it. Unfortunately, I do. Um, I wish I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I wish I didn't. Um, but like waking up every especially no, okay, wait. I hate waking up early during winter. Sure. Winter is not meant to wake up, period. Okay. Um, and so whenever I have to get up early in winter, I kind of want to die. Yeah. Because it's dark outside. Um I notice as I as I age, as I age, as I get older. Yeah. Um, I notice that light is like the most important thing for me ever. Yeah. So I do not want to miss a single hour of daylight. But also, if I have to get up in the dark, I'll have a bad day. Okay, got it. Um aka all of winter. Yeah. Exactly. Um unless you're sleeping until like 9 30. No, I mean the sun goes up at like 8, so it's not too bad. But if I get up at 7 30 and then I see the sun kind of going up, I'm like, okay, it's not too bad. Yeah. Um, when I was younger, I I think I thought I didn't need to sleep that much. So throughout CJEP, I would sleep like four hours. Yeah. But just because I loved going to bed at like 3 a.m. and then I was getting up at 7. Night owl. Um, but it's not true. No, but not even a night out. I was at my place doing puzzles. Oh. Or like doing quizzes. But like that, but still enjoying like staying up. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Night owl. Uh night owl. I heard night out. I was like, no, I wasn't getting drunk outside. Like night owl. Yeah, you guys are not a party girl. Night owl. And so just turning up your puzzles. I was like, on Tuesdays. Yeah, it's so funny. But um and so yeah, but then I mean I would take a nap in my classes, so it wasn't better. But um, but yeah, so I feel like I like sleep. I like I like it more and more. And I I'm really learning to enjoy a regular sleep schedule. Um yeah, well, routine, I don't really have a routine besides like my skincare routine and just like taking a shower and going to bed. You're not like no screens after this time, or like no water after this time. No, no, no, and I mean no water. I try not to drink too much water. You know, it happened to me like I don't know, twice in like the past 15 years to like wake up and pee my bed. Oh, really? Yeah, it happened to me twice. But it's just in my dream, I'm in the toilet in the bathroom and you're locked. And it just happens, yeah. Really vivid dream. So, guys, now you know. Um, but no shame, honestly. It just happened like twice in the past yeah, 10-15 years or something, and every single time I'm like, yeah. So now I really try to not drink too much water. It would like traumatized me. Welcome to the P Confessions podcast. But you know, I'm sure it happened. I heard like it's for some people it's like common to shit themselves. So I'm like interesting, you know, like peeing just once or twice is not yeah. I'm a I'm a no water after or no beverages after 7 p.m. Typically, or else I will get up and pee. And I'd like to sleep through the night. Please, thank you. Bet Bobby. And I sleep really well. I I don't wake up. Yeah, I don't snore. Yeah, I just sleep like a baby. And if I go to bed, I wake up eight hours eight or seven or eight hours after time travel, essentially. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in like two seconds. I can fall asleep anywhere. It is so man-coated if you're gonna. I know, I know. But like my boyfriend and I are the same. We see the pillow and we're like, yeah, yeah. So that's very good.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

I'm a pretty good sleeper in the same way. I will sleep a little longer. I like to sleep a perfect eight, and my ideal routine has been messed up by my significant other because we need to get on the same page, and it's been a lot of that's good. We love him still. Yeah, we do. But it's like living in separate places, it's like you know, you stay up late with him, and then you you don't want to it's so we're moving in together on Friday, and the way I'm going back to my militant.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

But that's good.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

That's good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but it's gonna be easier for sure. Yeah, exactly. And uh, I like to sleep at perfect, like my ideal is nine to five. Sleep 9 p.m. to 5 a.m. I love getting up at 5 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

She's doing it nine to five.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

I got up, I got up at 5 a.m. this morning for the first time in forever. And it's like, and I don't have blackout curtains or anything here. I'll also have to adjust to that.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

Like I sleep up and like the sun comes up this way, and I rise like a robot, like ready to like perform my fucking like I'm just at 5 a.m. on the dot. I never use an alarm ever. What? Because I don't need to. Because I get that. I wish that was my superpower. Honestly, that's so cool. Because I get up so early, and even if I'll set my alarm just in case for like 6 30, my body will get up at like 6 17. It'll it'll know. It'll be like, yep, you need to get up now. Okay, no. See if I don't put an alarm, I would just I haven't used an alarm. Like, the only time I use it is for like if I have to go to the airport at like 3 in the morning or something, but I never use an alarm. Holy shit, I'm jealous. I wish I could train, I mean, I could train my body to do that. I feel like I train it already for so many things that I'm gonna be sleeping. It's fine. But wow. Some of us can do 50 push-ups at once, some of us can get up without an alarm. I feel like the alarm makes you better than 50 push-ups. Damn. Yeah, but that's so fucking thank you. Wow. But so could you, if you had to sleep for a year, if somebody was like paying you to do some sort of like social experiment, would you be like, I can do it? I feel like all your muscles would like atrophy and you'd lose all your strengths. You'd lose all your strength. Well, that and dude, I'd get bored so easily. Oh, see, yeah. There. Like I could do it maybe if they were like for a month, sleep as much as you can. I'd be like, Yeah. Well, to be fair, if you pay me like six million dollars and you tell me sleep one year, I'll do it happily. Like, I don't care. Like, honestly, I'm gonna do whatever I have to do in this economy. Oh man, I would like go to a like, I don't know, like a meditation retreat for three months to learn how to meditate properly, and then I would meditate for a year. Like, that's what I would do, I think. Um, and as long as I have food and like water, and I mean she still does a little bit of exercise. Yeah, she's like she like gets up and does like squats and lunges and like eats a pizza pizza and goes back to bed. That's it. So I'm like that's not too bad. Um but would I do it? I know there was like a NASA thing like not too long ago where they would just sleep for I think it was like a month or so. But you know, you got better than that. Stop my life. For six million dollars, I would do it. Yeah, even for a million dollars. Six million, I was gonna say random. Yeah, I don't know. Six million sounds like a great number to me. I'm like, six million, that's good. It's like, but yeah, for for for money I would, but not for for just for fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:27

No, pass, yeah. So also why this is so interesting, because like in what circumstance do any of us get to do this?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

Absolutely, none. Yeah, but yeah, and also it's funny because throughout the book I was like, was her life really that fucked up that she needed a full year of this? Like, yeah, girl. Not really, honestly. Not really. I mean, no, I mean her mom was like true. Yikes, but yeah, yeah. Um to wrap this section, I was gonna ask about like um the main character's relationship with Reva, but we kind of talked about that already, and we'll talk about it in like um a no spoiler context in the next section. A spoiler context. Or sorry, yes, a spoiler context.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

That's right, in the next section. But I wanted to ask, like, do you have any favorite scenes or passages that aren't spoilering?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

I mean, Dr. Tuttle is kind of subscribing. That's amazing. We stand Dr. Tuttle in this house, dude. She's funny. Like, I feel like the amount of research to find the conspiracy theory, pseudoscience stuff is like really funny because there's some stuff that I had never heard of, and I was just like, this is hilarious. Um, so anything Dr. Tuttle was really funny, to be honest. And um, oh but that's a spoiler. I can say it. Okay. In the art gallery before she leaves her job.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Oh, okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

Yeah, we'll put we'll put a pin in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Um, I think that uh the first time, so kind of not a spoiler. She's taking like sleep medications, but the first time she likes sleepwalks.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

Oh, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

She realizes what she I was like, what she did. All this well, all the scenes of her like blacking out on on that intermediate.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:01

Inframeteral. Inframeterol, yeah. Yeah. Um, that's funny. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

Those are crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

Those are that is so stressful to me. Dude, the the fact that she oh, we have to go into spoilers for me to say this, but like it's you know what? That's that's a good transition, is any? We'll go into the third section and uh stick around. Welcome to the third section. Yeeha! Let's get to the immediate thoughts we were having. Um, are e blacking out favorite sections. If this is the spoiler section, if you want to hear the details about this book, this is for you. What I was gonna say is like the fact that she knew very well what this medication was doing. Like she was blacking out for three days straight. Which, like, I don't know, I never blacked out for three days straight. Okay. Um, the most I've blacked out is like five hours, and even that was terrifying. So, you know? Um, so the fact that she willingly puts herself through 40 pills of three-day blackouts, I was like horrifying. Horrifying, yeah. And like it's it's so strange because it's it's a very weird take on suicide, I feel like, too. Because in a certain way, she does commit suicide, but just not like physically. It's a very, very strange way. She's like she's clearly very depressed and like unwell. Yeah. And so she finds this very strange way to cope with it. But willingly putting yourself through that many days of blackout, it's like it's very much near death, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

That's how that's how you know you really don't care about living in the world. Exactly. And like Manhattan is like a scary, like you need to watch your back in the middle of the day, fully conscious and sober and alert.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

I can't imagine like the dangers of so many things could have I feel like I'm her mother right now, but I'm like, so many things could have happened to you. Oh my god. And I mean, yeah, and she's like, she's not strong, you know, like she can't defend herself. She keeps saying that she's like becoming skinnier and skinnier by the day, and she's like not even able to walk at some point, and like she gets out and she's like on the verge of fainting.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

Yeah, oh my god, yeah, horrifying.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:04

So yeah, the first one was funny. It was the one where she would send pictures of like her coochie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This one was funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

I was thinking of the one too, where she goes down to the bodega.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

I keep wanting to say the depth, and the people are like, You owe us like $40 for these things you bought. And she was like, Huh? I'm like, that's horrible. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

It's horrifying, so scary.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

You owe us money, and she was like, Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:32

Um, I wanted to talk in the spoiler section here about Trevor and like how much we hate that man. And um, what so okay, you you've read the book, or if you have not, Trevor is like the toxic situationship that's like uh uses our main character for like sex when it's convenient for him, but is kind of like an asshole to her the rest of the time, literally. Um, just you you know the type, you've been there.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

Oh, and he's like even worse than he's probably worse. Than any situation chip or like asshole dude I've ever oh yeah, I mean yeah yeah he's bad like Jesus Christ like he the amount of times he sexually assaults her in the book without it being explicitly told like that but like he would request blowjobs or like make her make her give him a blowjob in her sleep yeah she would wake up and she's giving him a blowjob and I'm like that's insane it's crazy yeah but so like what do you think he was used as a device to like make us feel bad for her or or is it just kind of like your life sucks so I see why you're doing this or what do you think what kind of purpose do you think yeah that's like when I read your brief I was like that's a good question I feel like I want to I there's like two answers two elements of answers that I want to give um first I feel like it's part of the accumulation and like the exaggeration of her life is freaking awful and all her relationships are like terrible and meaningless also um and in some way I want to think it's a cr the critique of patriarchy and like how men use women um but it might not be that directly but um I do feel like he wasn't there to make us feel bad for her because she was also willingly inviting him yeah but then there's definitely a thing where he's also much older than her if I remember correctly where yeah talking about men who are just that predatory is like unfortunately something I feel like a lot of women in their early 20s go through um been there than that it wasn't great um and so I it didn't make me feel worse for her but I was just like man this part of the system is definitely against her this doesn't help her at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I agree I think he was used to kind of just like layer on her like hopelessness and so when she was like I'm gonna sleep for a year the as a reader you're kind of like sure dog like it's better than going back to Trevor and like trying to make a hands there.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:54

Yeah I mean there was nothing to do he was just like yikes yeah but it it's funny because when I read your brief I was like was he actually useful? Like did we need him but I feel like it just added to that how pathetic she was because again it's like a it's like a contest of how pathetic is she gonna get yeah true because like she when she gets fired from the gallery from sleeping on the job too much and like just kind of being a shit employee and like Reva sucks. But aside from those two things like it would be easy for the reader to be like come on girl like get up and go fix your life go change your life but because her dad died from cancer then her mother committed suicide and her mom was like a she was not a mom. She was basically an asshole to her like she never wanted that child um but yeah and then she she changed schools I think at some point too and she like but but yeah besides that and not besides that but I mean we know a lot of people who had like fucked up childhoods and like and the parents' death was like quite a few years before so she wasn't like that's it. She wasn't like just fresh out of like being her dad or whatever. But had she had like a promising love life or was dating around maybe as a reader we'd be more like no don't do this. Go thrive and be 20 or whatever. Yeah yeah yeah and like you have a boyfriend that can help you so or a partner yeah but yeah but yeah no we fucking hate Trevor but we love the purpose he served I guess what honestly the dialogue was like it was it's so like you ever met a man it's so it's awful but again it's a car it's a car caricature caricature how do you pronounce that yeah caricature caricature yeah yeah sometimes I feel like I don't know how to talk um of like all of the worse parts of a man yeah especially because he gets with another woman at the end and then he's like I'm settling down and deep down you're like that's not true. Yeah you're gonna come back to this girl and then he comes back and and he's like one last time yeah yeah and she's like okay so yeah no we hate him actively yeah yeah see my hate was more towards him than her yeah fair like that she I never actively hated her I was like you're kind of what the fuck but at the same time she's gonna neutral exactly there that's it but him I was like stab stab yeah yeah so yeah yeah stab stab yeah there's one thing you should take away yeah stab stab like that man deserved to get stab stabbed in the streets yeah I think um did you so going back to like being easily tricked or seeing things coming did you anticipate a 9-11 weaving into this book um I feel like once they started talking especially if you're aware of like the timeline in the book where they say it's the 2000s and whatever and then Reva goes to work at the World Trade Center. Yeah I was like he references like I'm excited to work in the trade center. Yeah she was like I wanted to work in the towers whatever and it's because she's breaking up well she's breaking up she got dumped by her boss and then because she had an affair with him and whatever that's not really important. Um and so I was like oh okay I mean depending on where we get in the timeline of the book. Yeah in the thick of it we will in like peak like Reva's mom dying blackout era it was like New Year's yeah exactly it was Christmas 2000 yeah I'm like there's not enough time for them to get to 9-11 and then when she was done her experiment kind of like in June Juneish I was like well uh oh yeah so honestly did I think it was gonna finish like that maybe not but at the same time as soon as she started talking about World Treat Center I was like they wouldn't have mentioned it yeah if there wasn't something that was gonna happen and especially because she gets fired or like transferred whatever um kind of late into the book so I was like okay well I guess something's gonna happen yeah like they have to preface it kind of yeah foreshadow it yeah yeah true but I I was still kind of was bamboozled I was like funny coincidence but they're not gonna reference 9-11 Mariah was like the contradictory I don't know what happened and fully went to the 9-11 museum oh girl yeah but but I mean yeah I especially the last page sort of like it's yeah it's like the last three pages I'm like oh damn she really like tied this up with a 9-11 knot but I kind of liked it to be honest because yeah yeah it was choice but yeah so you saw it coming I kind of saw it coming like in June it had it took like two thirds of the book for me to be like okay I think we're on I think this is happening oopsie yeah um I wanted to talk uh about Dr. Tuttle my girl hilarious kooky to the extent but like if I was main character I would be so nervous about lying to a healthcare professional I'm like I'm gonna accidentally murk myself because I'm I'm telling Dr. Tuttle that I am an insomniac and I can't sleep so she's prescribing stronger and stronger sleep drugs and I'm like this is gonna kill me like I would be I was so nervous for her to be honest I think I think she never really cared whether she was gonna die or not do you know what I mean Dr. Tuttle? No no no like the main character never really cared. I feel like if she would have died during that experiment she would have been like ill yeah exactly like at some point she's on her bathroom floor and she's kind of dying like towards the end she's not that panicked. Yeah yeah she's she's like it'd be like that yeah kind of yeah she's like oh okay well I guess you know it's kind of the end so I feel like they're kind of both feeding that yeah she's lying because she just wants to sleep or die. Sleeping die you know the line is kind of blurry. But feed her addiction also as a third and Dr. Tuttle was just I feel like she's no background check no follow-up questions about she's not a healthcare provider. No she no she's she's a she's a drug dealer. Dr. Tuttle is just a drug dealer in my opinion um so I feel like her goal was ultimately just to feed into these conspiracy theories about nightmares and whatnot. Um so and she wasn't and but she told her like you don't look well yeah did she do anything about it? Not really. And she thought it was because of her nightmares so and she's so hands off and so like uninvested in her clients' lives that like main character had to tell Dr. Tuttle in like every chapter in every instance that her parents are dead. Absolutely she told her six times and she never remembered no and but at the same she's the comic relief for sure like she but again she it's not because she says jokes she's just absolutely cuckoo unintentionally completely completely crazy um and I find it really funny because it's like I mean I I've never had to take prescription pills for like mood or sleeping or whatever. No me either but I feel like I don't know how hard it is no to get them. And especially in the states where you pay for them. I bet it's not no I bet it's a lot more e-com in the states I bet it's a lot more buying stuff. But that's like it's so commercialized. Because here you have to be followed by a doctor and it's like you know but monitored and exactly followed up with and the and maybe I'm I'm saying a bunch of bullshit right now but I would expect the states to be more buying settle about it. Exactly so I feel like Dr. Tuttle would do that. But yeah it was crazy and especially when she gives her the inframeteral yeah and she's just like here's a sample like what what do you mean a sample but it's gonna help you look dire well and especially with the amount of pills that this girl was taking I cannot believe that there's not a moment where Dr.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

Tuttle was like yeah no well because and you know that she's not gonna ask because she can't even remember that a main character is parents died.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:31

Yeah she's so like in her own does not care about her patients at all. But because for the amount of drugs she's taking she's taking like what man ambient Valium Cero quil like she's taking so much stuff and she's taking crazy amounts of two it should be like and then I ate four and I gave rubber one and she's like and then I took five and two more of this and I found like a bottle of Nyquil and then I took Benadryl truly a cocktail of oh she's having fun she's like la la la la la um and yeah that was crazy that was honestly insane. But yeah Dr. Total she was funny and when whenever she came up I was like ha that's the beauty of this you know it's not true so you don't feel really bad you know but like Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:13

Yeah it was a lot um and throughout the book so her parents are dead and so our main character is still deciding what to do with her parents' house yeah um and she's dragging her ass like she let she rented it out she let the realtor like rent it out to some professor I think a professor yeah um what did you think about her like dragging her ass and not just like closing that chapter I feel like that's the only part where you see that she's still grieving.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:38

Yeah um I feel like that's the only material part of her parents that she still has she's saying that the only thing she wants to get back from this house is like a few boxes from the attic I think. Yeah. Um and so that's the moment where I was like okay she's not done grieving because throughout the book she we we like hear about her mom being fucking awful and her dad like dying of cancer in the matter of a year and like how traumatic it was but at the same time she seemed to be over it sort of um and she's kind of happy about her inheritance. Yeah which is I mean fair yeah you do what you can hey yeah um and so that was the part where I was like okay this could be one of the reasons why she wants to do this. Yeah um but also it's fair that she didn't want to close it and just in terms I feel like girly is not really aware financially speaking right so maybe she was just like this is income. Mm-hmm true so even that at some point I was like oh maybe it is actually more beneficial for her to rent it out. Yeah. But um in the end when she just decides to sell it I'm like okay now she she's over it and she got rid of it and it's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

But yeah yeah I found it like it's kind of the main driver of her wanting to like make a new life for herself right because she's like she because she your right is still grieving and she's just like you know this is kind of where she's like stuck in this liminal space of her life.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:00

But as a task oriented girly I would have been like sell it. Yeah I don't it de like yeah it depends what the relationship would be with the house for me. Because if it was still something I wanted to have in my life and I was like grieving in a way where having the house doesn't destroy me maybe I'd keep it because it looked like a beautiful fucking house. And the way it described is amazing. It's like a two-door style um with like wooden sounded very historic it sounded beautiful so I was just like yeah but um but yeah I agree that yeah once you know it's not right for you. Yeah take the boxes and rip that band aid that would have been me but I'm kind of a pusher in that way I'm like I'm like a push like for for forward your life girl I'll help you. I mean and that's what she wanted to do so she did eventually we kind of touched on this in the earlier section but like if you had to do kind of like a long-winded thing to change your life would you how would you would you do sleep? Would you do meditation? What would you do? That's a good question. No screens like would you do a big tech detox? Um I think does it have to be a year? Let's say it's a year. That's a good like comparison timeline. Yeah um okay I feel like one thing that not annoyed me but like you know she doesn't do anything actively to change her life. She sleeps for a year. Yeah. And granted of course it gives you a reset for sure um but when it comes to changing your outlook on life when it comes to changing how you go about life and just how you manage your relationships and whatnot um I feel like I would probably most definitely quit social media that's for sure because the honestly the more I am on social media the more I hate it kind of unfortunately. Sure. I feel like it's funny because I was in a theater residency recently and we were talking about social media and it was a residency about um performative activism. Oh sure which was interesting and then obviously social media is like a big part of it. And one thing we touched upon I was like honestly I'm not sure we were supposed to be in contact with that many people and with that many people's lives and like be witnesses how people like to that extent at least um and I feel like it's becoming more and more toxic and like countries like Australia that ban social media for 16 year olds under 16 year olds yeah I'm like this is great honestly like what the fuck yeah because what the fuck is happening yeah like when I see 12 year old girls um doing skincare tutorials I'm like no you shouldn't worry about having wrinkles like that's not normal. You're you're an infant for real like you're not yeah it's insane. So sometimes I see things and I'm like Jesus Christ. So probably no social media um I think I would go somewhere where there's a lot of nature on brand on brand and not even far like it could be close to here. And I think just in general um I have a lot of trouble with people who lack integrity. Sure. So if you have values like for example if you love the environment and the day after I see you ordering on Amazon I'm like hello do you know what I mean? It's like people eat a ton of meat because we're both vegetarians. Yeah or like it's just yeah I just find there's it if you claim to have these values you have to walk the talk. Yeah totally which which is not something that we're doing no socially I feel like myself included for some things obviously yeah I feel like we can all but so yeah I think I would try to get away from that in general so I feel like social media is already a big part but um but yeah I I think I would just be with my my beloved friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:38

I would like to and feel free if you would like to join me on this. Oh my god if I would also like to do something offline and remote and I would also want to do something like bigger than myself instead of just doing like self-indulgent reflection.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:51

Yeah no that's fair what if for a year we go log off and we go be like tree planters I would go to a farm yeah like build a farm yeah because tree planting scares me there's a lot of bears oh sure yeah or because I would like to build something that I can see yeah do you know what I mean because you can have like a measurable degree yeah but you still and you still have to be in contact with people. If I were to log off for an entire year I don't want to meet strangers. I'm sorry but like I'm not like there's no way I have to socially perform for like one more person I'm gonna off myself and we'll have to do that. So yeah but um but I would come with like if we were to build a farm together or just like you know have have pigs. Yeah sure just cows have pigs yeah I would be happy doing that you know pigs are cute they're smart they're so cute and cows I like cows too the way I would be so allergic yeah oh for real probably yeah it's coarse hair furry animals are like the worst for me hate it okay well maybe other animals no I'd still I'd just take claritin I would still fuck with them I don't care I don't know how you do it because even if I take claritin I die. Yeah so you will you have to like slowly get up your exposure and anyway but that hurts yeah it does it does hurt yeah man life hurts well yeah but that's a that's a good plan.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:11

Yeah I feel like remote no social media for sure like that's the most important part for me honestly um when I was researching about this book and what the people of the internet thought I was looking at some reviews and a lot of people had trouble with the fact that like clearly in the middle of the book she had like a pill addiction of course as you do if you're taking like 40 a day.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:30

Kind of there was a part where she kind of woke up at the end of her last stint and she was like now I'm all good and people had a hard time getting past the point where like what about your pill addiction? You're not gonna struggle with that anymore you're just gonna wake up and be okay with that. Did you notice that I didn't notice that so I think and I mean I'm not saying this from like a medical standpoint because I don't know. Yeah. But I would I would want to research does inframeteral even exist like I I think it's fictionalized usually like the hardest drug that's like I think legally they have to it's a fictional drug. Yeah it's fictional um but is it like anything close the most hardcore ones I feel like that fuck up your life are always fictionalized for like legal yeah for illegal reasons um and I mean I also guess it has to do with quantity like if because if I mean maybe I I have no idea I never took Xanax but like if you take five Xanax I mean do you die? I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Like maybe you black out for a long fucking time because I know that people who take Xanax every day can black out for like yeah a week or so. Crazy. So you know maybe let's take that as a reference um to like in the book she was taking a bunch of pills and then at the end she only takes inframeral so I was like okay maybe you're not addicted to the other pills anymore because anyways you're blacked out. True do you know what I mean like so she probably doesn't really notice. Yeah and she sleeps so much that like maybe she doesn't notice. Do I find it kind of weird that once she wakes up and she's like Because it's weird because it's it's it's not pictured like something she needs it just puts her in a state of blackout and when she wakes up she's fine. Yeah so you don't think it's like an addiction it's just like a you're fucking up my experiment and I because when Revit takes her pills that's when the only time she's really like I'm Jones and for these pills that's that's the only time but is it is it an addiction or is it just like a Revit you're fucking up my experiment. Well I feel like in that case it is probably an addiction but it's all the pills is that were not her inframeteral. Well it was that and the other pills so I feel like in that at that point and I feel like that's why she decided to throw them away because she was like I clearly have a problem with these even though it's not said in the book. Yeah so you think it's reasonable for her to get up at the end and be like not really because I feel like she would still need the inframeteral. Yeah. So yes and no but at the same time it seems to be such a strange drug because it it's like the addiction or like the addictive potential of that drug seems to be very strange because it's just like you take it you sleep for three days what then yeah so it's strange. I feel like it's it's it's also one of the parts where it's good that it's fictionalized because it's the effects of it are so bizarre that you're just like Yeah I I mean I understand why you wouldn't get addicted to it you know but like little plot holes like this don't really bother me because when you're reading fiction you kind of just have to suspend your belief and have a good yeah like sometimes it's not that deep. Like when I wat when I read Bunny Mona Wad what the fuck? Yeah you know like the girl is a swan sorry for the spoilers and to go that wouldn't happen I'm like can't you just like have fun and I was like whatever you know like sure so this part didn't bother me too much to be honest and is it 100% unrealistic debatable it's a fictional drug so maybe it's like if she took acid every single day which like good luck for your brain but you know yeah like meth. Yeah I if that's more I cause because technically or at least from what I read um acid doesn't have like that much of an addictive potential because you're not very capable of doing much you know you're you're you're you're not functional on it hallucinating a much so like you know so compared to meth where you're very very functional at killing yeah um I feel so yeah whatever she decided that drug was but then she did it for three days straight you know so that's more so yeah was was the subject of addiction exploited enough maybe not was it necessary for the book?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:34

I don't think so no yeah it didn't really bother me as much but I was wondering if that was like piss you off. Not really I didn't really hear sometimes yeah sometimes you kind of just have to let things go and enjoy a book you know if you're constantly pointing out plot holes like are you happy in your life?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:49

Look inward Yeah and also do some people just stop taking drugs like one day they're just like okay I'm stopping yeah yeah yeah just so She she could be that bitch. Is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:02

Seems like everything kind of just rolls off her back. So I could see her being like, meh, on to the next one.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:06

Well, she's like, I don't have any more, and like Dr. Tuttle is not there. So yeah. But I mean, would she be a raging addict in real life? Maybe. Maybe. And like try to find any other way to get high? Probably. But then that's not what the book is about.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:18

So true. Yeah. Um, I wanted to talk about one of my favorite scenes. Uh also a spoiler. So at the end, uh when the Twin Towers are crashed into and 9-11 is happening actively, Reva sees one of the people, not not Reva, the main character sees one of the people jumping off jumping off, and she like assumes it's Reva based on like her like shoes that don't quite fit and just her like look and her body and her positioning. Um, and that's like the only time the main character says that Reva looks beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:48

Yeah, it's sad. It is sad. And I'm like, that's one of my favorite scenes because I'm like, is it because this is your new reality? Is it because you're finally losing Reba? Is it because you're seeing beauty in tragedy? That scene was just like, what did you think about that scene? I feel like one thing also, it's the only like the book is so much about sleeping and like and death and like letting yourself decay and rebirth and whatever. And it's the only time where she mentions that at the end she says something along the lines of like this person was wide awake and she still jumped or something, which I was like, okay. And sh at that point, the main character is awake. Awake. Yeah. Um and so when I was reading about it, also like a little bit online, um, there's one thing about Reva where the main character probably always noticed that Reva was awake, despite the fact that she was so fucked up, she was going through like pretty bad um bulimia and like she was unhappy, her mom died of cancer. But one thing that she was always doing was like telling the main character that she loved her and that she was like a good friend. Was it still a toxic relationship? Absolutely. The fact that it was toxic, I feel like the main character always saw something in Reva that she maybe either envied or she didn't even notice she envied. And to about the fact that she was more awake, if you can use that term. Yeah. So I feel like also once she awakens, she's able to see beauty and things that she found pathetic before, or things that could uh hinder her from wanting to go to sleep. Because obviously, if she if she managed to find in herself the fact that she loved Reva and then she was her friend, she would have no reason to get into that year asleep. Yeah. Um but it is a beautiful scene and it is really sad. Um maybe she sees beauty and death, also, which is kind of fucked up, but um her experiment could corroborate that.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:46

So I wonder if it's like kind of her first experience giving life like a little grace and not seeing everything so like doom and gloom, and and why do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:56

But I since she's like awake now and like emerged, um, I wonder if she's like, This is my new perspective, and this is how I oh she definitely changed her philosophy about life, that's for sure. Just the way she carries herself and she has no phone anymore, and she like wants to be disconnected kind of from it all, but in a more positive way. I feel like it definitely changed her outlook on life, and maybe she does give people a bit more grace. Yeah, and I hope she keeps going. I can't imagine this fictional woman. I can't imagine like seeing like recognizing one of the falling bodies from the towers, and I'm like, that is insane. Bro, I don't even want to think about it. Yeah, I'm just like no, but it's awful, it's awful, yeah. So, yeah, I know and yeah, the fact that she's like she jumped and she was wide awake, and yeah, oh god, it's awful. That's crazy. Yeah, join us next time on the 9-11 podcast. Just don't be terrible. Um, but was there anything else you wanted to add about the book? The book? Um, I feel like if well, I mean, if you got this far in the podcast, you have heard spoilers, so I'm sorry, but you should still read it. Yeah. Um I feel like it's a book where you have to detach yourself from the character a little bit and not just take it from a she's so privileged she can allow herself to do that standpoint, but more so in a it's fucked up that this is the length we have to go to to feel better in this society. Because I think a lot of people would be like, I would love to do that. Well, from what I read online, like a lot of people on Reddit were like, yo, this sounds like the best idea. And I was just like, What the hell, guys? Um and I feel like sometimes we feel very powerless in terms of how to change our lives because it has so many components, and sometimes we're very happy, unhappy about a lot of components. Um, and so keep in mind that there's other ways than this to change your life. Um like please don't do that. Yeah, um, but it is a very interesting, absurd take on how someone can try to change.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:56

And that's something I enjoyed. And again, it is very cynical. Um and it also shows a lot of um very shallow relationships, which I like. And it kind of makes you more grateful for the relationships you have in your life. Because Reva on both sides, it's awful, but like, yeah. Yeah, she's my nightmare friend. Bro, I don't fuck with me. Like coming over all the time, I would be like if you show up to my house unannounced and we're not besties, I want to cry. Like, yeah, there's if you showed up to my house on an like there's a bunch of people that I would be like, hey, you probably need help, right? Yeah, if you're showing up to my house unannounced, but like a random person who's just like, let's drink and go out. I would be like, Who are you? But maybe we're just antisocial, to be honest. I think we've we've talked about it. We're both just kind of like hands off, do our own things. I mean, we're just lady too. Yeah, yeah. So, like, but no, and I mean it's very you can sense that Rev's jealous of her. Oh, I wouldn't know. Which she straight up says all the time, jealous. That's like how skinny. No fair. She always says that no fair. And I'm like, yeah, but how skinny she is and like how how pretty she is and whatnot. And like, if I was with if I had friends that were jealous of me, if I've or if I'm friends with people that I'm jealous of. It's not is that a friendship? No, it's it's death, man. That's awful. So yeah, but no, definitely read the book. Yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:17

There's a lot we didn't touch on, so there's still lots you can get out of reading the book. Yeah, and um, but yeah, thank you so much for coming on. This is a soap, it was really good. Where can the people find you?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:27

So you can find me. So I have two Instagrams, but honestly, at this point, please find me on my non-poll Instagram if you absolutely want to see poll. That's okay. Okay, you can find it too. So Instagram is Yuka Max, Y-U-C-A-M-A-X. Um, I have a theater company called Les Talon Fu. Um, we are gonna be having a show somewhere in Montreal in winter. Fine! So yeah. Stay tuned. And um, besides that, hopefully you see me on a screen sometime. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:57

And maybe again for the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:00

Oh my god. With great pleasure. I loved it. Honestly.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:02

Good, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:03

So yeah, it brought me back. Oh, yeah, I have a degree in journalism, and so I did a lot of radio before, and like this brought me back to oh yeah, to like chatting about like stuff, especially because I was doing a lot of cultural reviews. Oh, there you go. Perfect. So there you go. You're born for it, train for it. Uh-huh. Train for it, definitely. Um, thank you so much for watching. Happy reading. Bye guys, I think.