Ethical AI in Healthcare Operations | AI Strategy & Transformation | MarKeisha Snaith

AI strategy for healthcare fails when strategic intent hits operational reality at the bedside — MarKeisha Snaith on ethical AI, transformation, and healthcare innovation.

Healthcare innovation leadership rarely fails at the strategy level. It fails when strategic intent hits operational reality at the bedside. MarKeisha Snaith joins Chris Hutchins to examine the signals that matter most inside large health systems, why AI leadership strategies stall between planning and execution, and what distinguishes leaders who drive transformation from the ones who announce it.

What We Cover

• How AI governance decisions made in the boardroom play out at the point of care, and where the translation breaks
• Why communication patterns inside health systems determine whether AI transformation strategies survive contact with operations
• The operational signals leaders routinely miss because they live between departments, between roles, and between what gets measured and what actually happens
• How to build healthcare leadership capacity for AI readiness before the technology arrives
• What generational workforce shifts mean for leadership models in health systems

Key Takeaways

• AI transformation strategies that do not account for operational reality will not survive their own rollout. The strongest leaders treat clinical execution as the first-class design constraint.
• Trust is the currency of healthcare innovation leadership. When communication breaks, AI tools inherit the distrust regardless of how good the model is.
• Healthcare innovation requires both technical fluency and operational empathy. Leaders who have one without the other produce strategy decks nobody executes.

Frameworks & Tools Mentioned

• Strategic planning vs. operational execution frameworks
• Healthcare leadership and system transformation methodology
• Cross-generational workforce leadership models
• AI governance decision-making in clinical settings
• Communication cascades in large health systems

Timestamps

• 00:00 Introduction: what healthcare experts really face with AI transformation
• 03:30 MarKeisha Snaith on AI governance in clinical reality
• 10:00 AI transformation strategies that survive contact with operations
• 17:00 AI healthcare innovations: what is working and what is not
• 24:00 Healthcare innovation leadership at the intersection of tech and care
• 31:00 Ethical AI when patient outcomes depend on the model
• 37:00 Building healthcare leadership capacity for AI readiness
• 43:00 The future of AI transformation strategies in health systems

About MarKeisha Snaith

MarKeisha Snaith is a healthcare leader whose work focuses on the operational reality of AI transformation inside complex health systems. She examines how strategic decisions cascade through clinical, technical, and administrative functions, and what it takes to build leadership capacity that converts AI vision into patient-level outcomes.

Related Resources

• Episode: Good People Are Quietly Quitting with Carly Caminiti on leadership development
• Episode: Rethinking Healthcare Data Strategy with Brian Sutherland
• Episode: The Enterprise AI Journey with Gary Cao
• Topic: Healthcare AI Strategy
• Newsletter: <

📘 Beneath the Signal, Chris's book on the human work behind trusted data and responsible AI in healthcare: Get it on Amazon

Transcript

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Markeisha Snaith: 0:00

I think that leadership doesn't ultimately influence culture, but I think that leadership manufactures culture through repetition. If you have a rotten apple at the top, it trickles down because over time, when you allow those things to continue to happen or leave those people in place, they then in turn hire people that are similar to them. And now you have this whole culture of just rotten apples. Gen Zs are coming in and becoming leaders, and I think that people are very afraid of that. Younger generations tend to really disengage fast when that alignment breaks, and once it happens, you can't fix it. Like there's no forgiveness. It's always been a clarity issue.

Christopher Hutchins: Markeisha Snaith has spent her career doing something most leaders avoid: 0:48

building structure inside systems that are already moving. She is the Director of AI Security Governance and the Founder of XIR, a strategy and advisory firm where she works at the crossroads of governance, technology, and organizational leadership. Her clients span government, healthcare, finance, and hospitality. What they share is a common challenge. They are trying to adopt innovation without destabilizing what they have already built. Markeisha advises executives on aligning culture with strategy, designing governance frameworks that hold under pressure, and reading the signals organizations tend to miss before friction becomes a crisis. She brings a direct perspective and a long view. And today, she brings both to The Signal Room.

Christopher Hutchins: 1:35

Markeisha, welcome to The Signal Room. I'm so excited to have you joining me today. I know we talked the first time quite a while back, but there's just been so much going on. It's taken us a little bit to reconnect. I've seen you've been quite busy with your business, which is obviously exciting and a good thing. And hopefully we'll get into some of the good things that you're seeing in your work. What kind of brought us together, I think initially, was we were at a conference out in Las Vegas and starting to understand what's going on in the bigger picture with AI across multiple industries. And certainly it was fascinating at the Put Data First Conference. It got me thinking about a lot of the different aspects of the transformation that we're facing with AI. And there's a whole lot more to do with people than there is even technology, particularly when it comes to culture and trust and the organizational dynamics, leadership on every level. So I'm very excited to get your perspective on some things today. If we can start with really that trust and operational reality space. When organizations are talking about transformation, culture often determines the success or failure, or the pace that an organization can move forward, or whether they stall. So what are some of the things that you're seeing from your perspective where leadership decisions are really shaping the direction? And what do you see that's really working well, and what's not? Is it more of a cultural thing, or is it some other dynamic that you're seeing that's really either driving or maybe slowing things down?

Markeisha Snaith: 3:08

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I want to start with something because I think we get asked this question a lot, especially being in our leadership positions. You know, what does leadership look like? And you are right in saying, or hinting at, that leadership decisions impact culture. And I think on a deeper level, it impacts culture because culture is more so the accumulation of repeated leadership signals. So what I mean is it's not about what's written on the wall. It's what's getting rewarded, what's getting escalated, what's being ignored, what's getting funded. And if leaders are consistently prioritizing speed over control, which we get a lot in the AI realm, then the culture becomes more risk tolerant. And if a leader or leaders punish people for being transparent when mistakes surface, then the culture becomes more defensive. And if leaders reward that cross-functional collaboration, which is what's really necessary to succeed in an organization, then the culture becomes aligned. So I think that every decision that leaders are making communicates what matters the most, what behavior is safe, what behavior is career limiting. That's a big one. How risks are really truly handled. And I think all of those are a mix of good and bad. And just from my examples, I think we can really pull out what's the good and what's the bad leadership. I think that a lot of organizations are very complex, but culture is really downstream of overall leadership behavior. And I think that if you have a rotten apple at the top, it trickles down because over time, when you allow those things to continue to happen or leave those people in place, they then in turn hire people that are similar to them. And now you have this whole culture of rotten apples. And I recently read something about Gen Z coming in and becoming leaders. And I think that people are very afraid of that. I've been at conferences where that's talked about. Even millennials, they're saying, are scary and they don't know what that shift is going to look like. So we should definitely get into that. But I do just want to say that it's really built in and it's patterns over time. And I think that leadership doesn't ultimately influence culture, but I think that leadership manufactures culture through repetition.

Christopher Hutchins: 6:30

Yeah, I think that's a really important distinction too. It's a challenge if there's not consistency. And it used to be that you could talk about the standards and what set a culture, and it carried a lot more weight than it does now. Twenty years after the point in time when the majority, probably seven or nine out of ten people said they trust the government or whatever that number was, it's not anywhere near that now. And people's experience is going to override what they know as things are supposed to be based on what people are saying and what the policy is. And what you're talking about is that consistency point. Whatever you're doing consistently, that's going to set the culture and the level of trust that you're going to be experiencing in the organization. A drive-by conversation or a town hall a couple times a year, that's not going to change the culture. If you've got a culture problem, you're at least not making it better, but it's likely taking a turn in a different direction. I mean, would you agree with that?

Markeisha Snaith: 7:32

I do. Absolutely. I definitely think that, you know, we had this conversation when we first tried before even getting to this point about overall leadership. And then just surprisingly, the bad ones stay. They have nowhere else to go. So they kind of just stay over time and everybody else great ends up leaving and going elsewhere to be in better companies. And I really want us to get to a point where we have people at the top who are consistently thinking about the importance of leadership training. Because I don't think that it's all about getting the certifications and getting the degrees. At some point, you need to ensure that you are training your leaders on a regular cadence. And it's not just once a year, it's not just every three years. I think it should be quarterly. And I think that it should be training across the board. Not just, "Oh, these are people who could potentially become managers, so they get the training." No, the people who are consistently making the decisions, they need to be the ones who understand what true leadership is, what works well and what doesn't. I've worked for great leaders and I've worked for terrible leaders. And unfortunately, as they say, people either leave for bad pay or bad leadership overall.

Christopher Hutchins: 9:01

So can we dig in a little bit on this? Because I want to make sure that people understand that we're not talking about leadership just in the context of AI, because there's an important distinction here. And what I think can get missed very easily is that in a lot of industries, healthcare in particular, in technical areas, it's been this way. The only career path for someone who's excellent from a technology standpoint tends to put them into a role where they've got managerial responsibility. And that doesn't necessarily prepare them for what they're stepping into. And organizations have varying levels of programs that they have in place to provide the training for people as they're entering into that level of oversight and responsibility. If you could talk a little bit about what you see out there, because I think this might be one of those inflection points where if we take the opportunity and double down and invest there to make sure that we're shoring that up, we're going to be good. But if we don't, it could actually go in a very different direction, even with the best of intentions.

Markeisha Snaith: 10:08

Yeah, absolutely. For me, at the point where I am in my career, I've been fortunate to move up in leadership and stay as an individual contributor. Now, I say I'm very lucky for that because a lot of people now are not looking to be in managerial positions where they have to oversee direct reports. And in a lot of companies, I want to say they're still doing this because at some point you do have to have direct reports when you get into director, VP, and so forth. So you're going to have direct reports. But I've also seen a shift in companies to where now they're trying to hold off a little bit longer from putting people in positions to manage other people. From my experience, I'll give this example. At an organization I was working, a financial institution, they were doing organizational changes because they had noticed that there was little to no room for people to grow. You either went from a mid-level to a senior to a manager to a director, whatever. There was not that extended in between. And so they made a shift to add in some additional cushion, to where now you have assistant director, assistant manager before you get to regular manager, before you get to senior manager. And they do it a lot in consulting too. But the one thing that they did was they offered leadership training to me at a senior level because they thought, if we don't offer her any leadership training, she's not going to want to grow here and she's going to want to leave.

Christopher Hutchins: 12:19

Right.

Markeisha Snaith: The only issue with the leadership training is who was hosting it. It wasn't somebody from the outside. It wasn't a third party coming in. It was internal HR. And these were not necessarily individuals trained to do this type of leadership training. So when you ask me what I really got from that leadership training, I didn't really get anything. It was a month's worth of training, about two hours each week. That didn't really give me much. And then it was like my manager got the sign-off that Keisha did training, she's good to go, type of thing. But it didn't really aid in my success to where I am now, operating in a director position. Fortunately, along the way, one, I'm a natural-born leader, so that helps. But two, I've done work outside of the workplace. Unfortunately, things like that just did not aid in my success towards being a leader. And I'm afraid that that's happening across the board. Because it's one of those things that gets said maybe once a year: 12:20

"Hey, we need to be training certain people within the organization. Think about the people in your team who could possibly become managers, but they're not there yet. Let's just offer them the training." No follow-up. Internal HR hosting it. And it is what it is. We're checking a box. And that checking the box is what causes issues where leaders have paralysis, or they have issues accepting risk, or they're penalizing people for wanting to innovate. All of these bad things that happen from leadership. And it's simply because maybe they're not born to lead, maybe they just haven't been trained appropriately, maybe they've been grandfathered in. There are so many different factors. But we definitely need to get a hold on what great leadership looks like. And the people at the top, the executives, the C-suite, they need to understand that it starts with them. Whatever leadership they're doing, it's going to trickle down into the rest of the company.

Christopher Hutchins: 14:55

Yeah, that's an excellent point. The other side of it that can be easily lost is, if you're in a position at a senior executive level, you might not be thinking about the layer where the biggest risk is. And it really tends to be that first level of supervision for the folks in your operational areas. That can be the really difficult place because you need them to understand the organizational decisions and strategy and the direction that you're taking. And if that level of the organization isn't really clear about it, and they're not sure themselves whether the direction they're hearing is the right one, they're definitely not equipped to be reinforcing what you're wanting them to reinforce. When you deal with such a massive transformation as we are, people are hearing about technologies whether we like it or not. They're being exposed to them. There's all kinds of perspectives, and there are a lot more opinions than people and outlets to get them from. So it's really important that we understand that first level where the frontline team are interacting with whether it's a customer, a patient, whatever it is. That interaction is really a place that we've got to pay attention to. That first line where they're going to get support, they'll know if they're getting the right level of support or not. They might be getting discouraged from something that you really don't want them to be discouraged from, or worse, they're being encouraged to do things that you really don't want them to do. And it's at a time when people are trusting more the ones that look, sound, act, and think like them than they are outside voices. We have to be really cognizant of that and make sure that we're providing the right level of training and instilling these principles in the leaders that are that first line of defense. And you're coaching people constantly at multiple levels of their career, coming from all kinds of different perspectives. You talked about Gen Z, Gen X a little bit. There's a lot of nuance even in the different groups, right?

Markeisha Snaith: 17:03

Yeah, absolutely. And we have to also remember that people are hearing more about these emerging tools everywhere, but they're also forming their opinions from social media. These younger groups, vendors, right? So like us being on the technology side, we are influenced by vendors that we speak to on a regular basis, internal rumors, external headlines, just anything. And I think that there's more information than there is structure, unfortunately. And if leadership doesn't equip those frontline supervisors with clear messaging, clear guardrails, clear decision rights, and support channels, then those supervisors can't confidently reinforce the direction. There are a lot of people that are not taking ownership or responsibility. And that's where that strategy piece is always so important. Trust is built at the end of the day. And if the frontline supervisors are unsure, then your experience reflects that uncertainty. That's the reality of it.

Christopher Hutchins: 18:29

Yeah, and I don't think we've gotten into this too much, but I'd love to get your thoughts. What are some of the differences when you think about how somebody in Gen Z or Gen X or the millennials, what are some of the distinctions between how they trust? What do they need to engage in a way that they can get over any trust barriers they might have? Are there differences at that level?

Markeisha Snaith: 18:58

Yeah, I actually love that question. I think when we talk about the Gen Zs, the Millennials, the Gen X, the difference is not necessarily work ethic or loyalty. We hear a lot about loyalty, right? Like, companies aren't loyal, so they don't feel the need to be loyal. But I think all of those things do create trust. So for example, trust is created through transparency and being authentic. Gen Z, for example, they've grown up in an environment of constant information. So they consistently expect transparency about decisions that are being made. They want to be looped in, they want a seat at the table, they're expecting clarity about why a change is happening. Growing up when you ask your parents, "But why? But why?" They're expecting those things, visible accountability. So for example, we can talk about the Amazon layoffs. They want the accountability from the people at the top to say, "You know what, we are laying people off because we don't want to pay them anymore." That's the type of accountability they're looking for. And they're also looking for alignment between the values that you state on your website, your mission, your vision, versus what's actually happening with performative leadership. They're quick to disengage if they sense that. Trust is built when leadership explains those trade-offs honestly, and it's not just for compliance. With millennials, and I'm a millennial, some of the things I touched on for Gen Z I agree with, but for millennials and from my personal experience, trust is really through having a purpose and being able to grow. That's a big thing for me personally. If I'm able to see a clear path for development, I love that. Because I know that if I'm at this company, if I do X, Y, and Z, I'm going to get here and here and here. So there's a path for that. Or how does my work align to the broader mission? A lot of the times when I'm working for an organization, I don't know how any of my work aligns to the mission. So it's like I'm doing things and I never see how that has influenced the overall company, which makes me feel like I don't have a purpose here. And feedback too. Millennials love that real-time feedback. If they're doing something wrong, let them know so they know how to fix it immediately and not just be guessing. You don't want to hear in your review, "Remember that time in January when you didn't do X, Y, and Z?" How could I fix it if you didn't tell me? And just not to leave the Gen Xers out. For Gen X, I think they're really looking at consistency. They're looking for decisiveness, comfort, stability, autonomy. Leaders who demonstrate capability. I don't think they're pressed by rhetoric. They're really persuaded by execution at the end of the day. When leadership follows through on what they say they're going to follow through on. So across generations, the way to consistently build engagement is to be clear in your direction, have visible confidence, make sure you're fair in your decision making, make sure you're transparent, and make sure you're living by the values that you preach. I think those are all things that can help with trust. But overall, younger generations tend to really disengage fast when that alignment breaks. And once it happens, you can't fix it. There's no forgiveness with the younger generation.

Christopher Hutchins: 23:31

That's an important thing to know because you don't have a whole lot of opportunities to get it right. And particularly when we're going through such a crazy transformation. I remember back in the 90s, I don't think any of us would have been able to do the crystal ball trick and figure out where we'd be with the internet.

Markeisha Snaith: 23:49

Right.

Christopher Hutchins: 23:50

I think we're all more dependent on technologies now than we've ever been. And this is a whole other order of magnitude beyond anything that we've seen before that we're facing right now.

Markeisha Snaith: 24:01

I know. And remember how I said the conversations about millennials and Gen Z specifically stepping into leadership, what is that going to look like? If I'm saying that the older generations can tolerate things for a longer time, we understand patience, but with the younger generation having this expectation that if you don't get it right the first time, they lose that trust and they disengage. What does that look like from a leadership standpoint? I don't know what running a company looks like when you disengage fast, when alignment isn't there.

Christopher Hutchins: 24:41

That's a real concern. The dynamics are just more volatile probably than ever. I don't think this is a new phenomenon, but when you're going through any kind of transformation, whether it's technology or the organization is growing, or you're expanding your business into new areas. In any kind of company, there are a number of ways you transform. But the interesting piece really is around how you message and how you lead through periods of time where sometimes you know things are going to be really disruptive, and you might even know how disruptive they're going to be. Sometimes you don't. But a person who's downstream of decision makers, if you're an executive dealing with this kind of stuff, there are some really difficult lines you have to walk in order to get things right from a timing perspective. Because I might know that we're going to be making some changes and reorganizing something, and it's going to affect a whole bunch of functions. And if I disrupt them at this particular moment in time, it's going to hurt the ability of the business to take care of its obligations. And I want to be telling people as honestly as I can, and as soon as I can, everything that I know so they're prepared, because they are the company. They're why we have success in any organization. But there's a delicate balance between being 100% transparent and comfortable that that risk is going to pay off, versus saying one thing too many. And God forbid you've maybe been inconsistent before, not delivered on something. You may start seeing people jump ship because they don't trust you. They don't believe what you're telling them. So that balance piece of it has always been a challenge. But where we are now, it's really more important than it's ever been to be as upfront as you possibly can be. But maybe more importantly than giving them the answers that you do know or telling them straight out the ones you don't, they can at least live with that a little easier than feeling like you're not even telling the truth.

Markeisha Snaith: 26:54

Yeah, you can definitely tell when somebody's beating around the bush consistently. I've worked with leaders who absolutely don't necessarily have the right reason to be in their roles, but they're there because they knew somebody. My thing is, that's why you build a team that's smarter than you. You build up that team to support you, make you look great, and then you deliver what you need to deliver to the people above that you report to. And I like what you say about transparency also meaning being honest and being open. People respect you more when you can just come out and say, "Listen, I don't think I know everything." When you come out and say you don't know everything, because nobody knows everything. If you say, "Whatever I don't know, if I can ask you, if you can help me work through some of these issues or problems, would you be willing to do that?" So many people are like, "Yeah, of course." But for the ones where their ego's getting in the way, that'll always be their downfall. Especially in these organizations where people talk too.

Christopher Hutchins: 28:20

Yes, for sure. You're in a unique position because of the work that you do. You're seeing people at all different areas and moments in their career, different types and levels of transition. Maybe if you could put your coaching hat on for just a minute. I want to get your thoughts on what's really important for people who are early in their career, maybe some people who are wanting to grow but they feel uncertain. But also, if you're in a position of executive leadership, what do you need to know about your teams and what they're dealing with? What are some of the things that you're hearing about that executives probably aren't? Because these folks are just not feeling like they've got enough information to really be driving their own careers. They don't even know what conversations they should be having sometimes. But the fear factor now is probably more real than it's ever been. People are really afraid of disruption. And in particular, AI is going to be the end of their jobs. Maybe if you can speak to the different perspectives of the types of people that you're interacting with, just so there's some visibility across the board. How people understand the levels that they're at, but also the levels above them. What are some of the things that are concerning and that they should be aware of that will actually help them improve their positioning, not only in their own career, but how they're leading and showing up in their company?

Markeisha Snaith: 29:51

Yeah, I think that's a really great question. From the coaching side, what I see consistently is that uncertainty comes from a lack of clarity. A lot of people associate it with not having the capability to do something. But it's always been a clarity issue. No matter what level a client comes to me at, they don't know how to position themselves. For the professionals who want to grow but feel very uncertain, there are a few things that matter the most when I talk to clients. First is identity clarity. It's really important that you understand how you're positioned. Not just what it is that you do, but it is important to know what problems you solve and how they are generally perceived within an organization. A lot of people don't have that clear understanding. This kind of ties back to where I said purpose is important for millennials, purpose and growth. Knowing your purpose, what makes you unique. And what makes you unique is when you understand the problems that you solve and how that shows up inside of an organization. Understanding your identity is very important. And that's not even just in the workplace, it's also personally. You should understand who you are.

Christopher Hutchins: 31:32

I just want to put an exclamation point on this because I'm on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to where I am in my career, but I've only recently started to have to think about things differently. And typically when you're talking about what your skill sets are and what you're good at, people are thinking about things from a credential standpoint. They're not thinking about what kind of problem they solve. And that's a really important distinction. You've been coaching people this way for a long time. But if you could just kind of repeat that, because I think it's really important that people understand this is not about your resume.

Markeisha Snaith: 32:08

Right. Yeah. So you're very right about that. And it's funny because living in the DMV area, we get asked a lot, like when you go to networking events, they don't care about your name. They want to know what you do for a living. And your natural response is to say, "Oh, my name is Markeisha, and I do X, Y, and Z, and I have a master's and a PhD." That's what they're thinking. But you make a very great point. It is not about what's on your resume, and it's not just about your credentials. You need to understand that anybody, to be honest, can get that certification that you have. Just about anybody can go to school and get that degree, because you graduate with a bunch of people at the same time. Dissertations may be different. But at the end of the day, what's going to make you stand out is understanding yourself, understanding what you have to offer, what problems you solve, and what people perceive that as inside of any organization that you have worked at. That is what is so important. That's called identity.

Christopher Hutchins: 33:22

I love that. That's clarity that people need to hear. If they haven't heard it before, they're hearing it now.

Markeisha Snaith: 33:27

Yes.

Christopher Hutchins: 33:27

We'll put it on blast for them.

Markeisha Snaith: 33:29

Right. Big identity. I would say another thing too that I see from clients is visibility. I think a lot of people get stuck where they are. And I don't think that growth happens in silence. As they say, closed mouths don't get fed. It's the same thing. Many talented people are doing excellent work, but they're not communicating their impact in a way that leadership can see.

Christopher Hutchins: 34:03

So that's important. What are some of the blockers that you typically see? Things where people just aren't realizing how they're showing up?

Markeisha Snaith: 34:12

Yeah. So a major one that I talk about, and people are so surprised when I say this. There are those people at work where their manager will give them a task, they'll complete it super fast. Their manager will give them another task, they complete it super fast. Their manager starts associating them with somebody who gets things done fast, and now they're the go-to person to do everything. That is doing excellent work, but it can also hinder you in the workplace. Because with you now being that go-to person that will do almost anything for your manager, you are not somebody who generally is going to come to the table and say, "I'm not going to do this without a raise. I'm not going to do this without a new title." And you can easily get stuck there because you're not somebody who recognizes, and this is generally how it is, that when you overdo it without asking for the compensation, what is the point of giving you compensation if you've been doing it this entire time? I'll give you a raise, sure, at the end of the year. But the person who's slow and steady, in my opinion, does so much better in the workplace.

Christopher Hutchins: 35:32

Yeah, that's such an important point. People don't all define balance for themselves the same. But it's not even so much about the balance thing as it is just having a clear understanding of what you're responsible for, making sure that you're managing it in a responsible way, identifying where the areas are that you want to learn and grow. But you do need to keep boundaries. Maybe you don't have a family at home and you don't mind working a little extra in the evening, but you have to think about that, because whatever pattern you set, it's going to be expected from you. Everyone listening has probably done this to themselves at some point. They just took on a little bit more out of the kindness of their heart. And then tomorrow, if they don't do it by 10 o'clock, they're late.

Markeisha Snaith: 36:17

Exactly. You get it.

Christopher Hutchins: 36:20

Yeah, it's a common trap people get into. And maybe you could talk a little bit about this too. I know we're coming up on time, but expectations are something to really make sure that we think about. Because what we do today does set expectations. And we can easily miss some of the best opportunities to learn and grow if we're always just trying to be the good egg. You're going to be reliable, you're going to do the things that need to be done, and that's all great. But there's also this area of responsibility for driving the direction of your own career. And happiness is defined differently for everyone. But you at least want to leave opportunities in your life for the things that matter. What about when you decide you want to have a family? What about having a child for the first time? Or maybe it's a pet. But you can put yourself in a really difficult spot by not understanding clearly that an organization and employer is always going to be willing to take whatever additional effort you want to put in. Why would they not?

Markeisha Snaith: 37:32

Exactly. They're a business at the end of the day. And I don't think people understand that either. People think about the job search process as something that's straightforward, like one plus one equals two. Honestly, it's about understanding that businesses are about making money. They have to make money to be able to continue to employ people. So if you are not positioning yourself in a way that shows an employer how you can come in and make them additional money, then you're simply not standing out. And I also want to say, even for those people who are always doing the tasks they're given over and over and never setting boundaries for themselves, yes, you are contributing to the success of the organization, but you may not be contributing to what leadership actually needs. And it is so important sometimes to not just take the task that your manager's giving you, but to also be present in those meetings with their bosses and to listen in on what exactly they're looking for from the business side every single quarter.

Christopher Hutchins: 39:00

Right.

Markeisha Snaith: 39:01

Because that's what you need to be spending the extra time doing. That's how you stand out. It's not just being a task pusher and a task pleaser.

Christopher Hutchins: 39:10

Now, that's an excellent point. Because I think maybe it doesn't get accounted for like it used to be. But there was a time where I'm sure you were this way too. If I know you at all, I've seen something that I knew had to have a better way. I'd go home at night, I'd get on the computer, I'd start Googling, reading whatever I could find to figure out how to solve for something. No one tasked me with it, but I knew there had to be a better way.

Markeisha Snaith: 39:33

Yes.

Christopher Hutchins: 39:34

That's great. You know, because you know it needs to get done, you're faithful and you're cranking it out. But maybe take some time and do some of these things to help yourself. Those are oftentimes the things that open up opportunities for you because you're solving something that maybe someone else hasn't even seen needs to be solved, which is even more exciting when that happens.

Markeisha Snaith: 39:56

And I'm happy you said that, because people get tied to pleasing the organization. People don't think about pleasing themselves and what career progression looks like personally for them. And that is where career branding comes into play. You are also a brand outside of the company you work for. Opportunities will come to you when you water those seeds. Plant the seeds and water them. The same way that we are showing up, Chris, like on LinkedIn for example. We're writing articles, we're doing white papers, we're showing up at conferences, we're doing this podcast session. That is branding your career. That is how you're going to get those opportunities. And you can also show leadership, "Listen, I can be that person that this company needs to showcase what the company's doing." Content creation is so big now. Influencing is so big. Organizations are wanting to use people to get their name out there. You can really position yourself well if you get outside of your bubble.

Christopher Hutchins: 41:14

Yeah, that's just such a great piece of wisdom for people to be hearing. And I love what you're doing, Markeisha. I really do. The very first one of your webinars I listened in on, I sat there soaking it up like a sponge, listening to all the different perspectives. Because people were on that particular one coming at things from so many different points in their career. And almost every one of them, wherever they were, they were hearing some things that they had never heard before that were really critical. And they weren't long-term stretch things you've got to be working on and investing in for six months. These are things you can be doing right now to build your value, really sharpen your identity, to know who you are, and to start showing up differently on your own behalf, but also in a way that opportunities are going to open up for you, not only currently where you are, but where you want to be. I just love that. And if you're listening out there and you haven't been familiar with what Markeisha's doing, I highly encourage you to take a look at her site. You'll find all the information in the show notes on how to get in touch with her. It will be time well spent, I promise you. She's got unbelievable training content you can get your hands on, all kinds of opportunities to engage with her and her team. No matter what level you are in an organization, if you're the CEO, a board member, or just getting started in your career, these are really important perspectives that she brings, and proven training and delivery of results, repeatedly. But if you're running an organization, she can help you understand what you need to understand in terms of what's happening in the dynamics and culture of your company and how you can make a difference in making sure that you're not only surviving this transformation that we're about to get into the middle of, but you can thrive and you can bring your team with you and hopefully make a lot of leaders in the process.

Markeisha Snaith: 43:24

Yeah, that's what's so important. Think about if you're running shop with some of the strongest leaders, how far you can go. I really don't think that everybody's thinking that way.

Christopher Hutchins: 43:37

No, I know it. I measured the wrong things for a long time. I wrote a little bit about this recently, but I came to a point when I realized, after I'd been at an organization for like 15 years, within a couple of years of the time that I departed from there, almost everything that I ever did got replaced. The only thing that was left was the people. And for me, there was a moment I realized, of course, what's actually going to last is the people that you invest in and that you equip to carry things into the future. And if you really do care about the company and that's important, it's not the systems, it's not the upgrades you do, the inventions or technology. It's the people and what you can instill in them to carry the mission forward and hopefully do it far better than we do. I don't even know how many people have far surpassed anything I've ever done, mostly because maybe I held the door one time, not because they learned anything profound from me. But that's truly the best reward you can get if you're in a place where you can influence and help people in their career, whether you're hiring them or coaching them or just being a friend or a mentor. There's nothing like that when you actually get to see people grow and thrive, discover their own purpose, and start actually making more leaders in the process. It's very rewarding. I can't thank you enough for coming on. And I feel like we could do a series and we'd never exhaust the topics.

Markeisha Snaith: 45:17

I was going to say that. I'm thinking the same thing too. We could talk about so much. There is a lot to discuss here.

Christopher Hutchins: 45:26

There is. And maybe it's something we can explore. I know you're meeting people constantly. I've been meeting some even recently, even earlier today, that I'm just inspired by. I've got to introduce more people for collaboration. There's just so many really great people that really care about making life better for human beings at a time where people are so introverted and kind of being drawn closer into their screen life and social media. It's really exciting to run into people who are excited and are really looking for the ways that we can externally engage and get more people involved and get them excited about what they can actually do and what they can be. It doesn't really take a lot to stand out if you start to get really good at human interaction.

Markeisha Snaith: 46:19

Honestly, that is so true. When you actually put yourself out there, because a lot of people are not putting themselves out there, you're already in the 1%.

Christopher Hutchins: 46:31

I never would have thought that would be the case. I mean, 10 years ago I wouldn't have believed it. But strangely enough, there's a lot of obvious things you have to state now, and they're not obvious to everyone.

Markeisha Snaith: 46:44

You learn over time. No, I really appreciate this. I appreciate you for having me on. I'm so happy that we had an opportunity to meet at the Put Data First conference. That was a really, really great conference. I love the roundtables and just hearing what people had to say about AI and just seeing how people in different industries are thinking about things. It really got my wheels spinning, coming up with different ideas and what governance looks like from that perspective. And anybody listening, I really encourage you all to put yourself out there, to get outside of your comfort zone, and just start showing up for yourself. Even when it makes you feel like you are going to embarrass yourself, or you're not going to be able to speak to anybody, or you're not going to get anything from it. Trust and believe it will gradually change the way you interact, the way you speak, the way you show up. It will have that change on you. You hear tons of people saying, "Well, I'm an introvert." You have to get out of that. How are you going to get to the top if you are just remaining in your little shell? You have to break out of your shell.

Christopher Hutchins: 48:09

Yeah, an interesting point that was really funny how I even learned this. When I was working in Boston at Mass General Hospital at one point years ago, they brought in the Screen Actors Guild to teach some of us presentation skills. I was like, Screen Actors Guild? But it became evident to me as we got into it what this was all about. It was really about how you communicate and convey information. And what I really came away with is that none of us as individual human beings are the jobs that we do. You might not be an actor in Hollywood, but you are absolutely an actor.

Markeisha Snaith: 48:50

Right.

Christopher Hutchins: 48:50

We don't think of ourselves that way. There are things that I would never do in a million years if I didn't need to do it for my job, because it's just not interesting to me. People would think that I'm a data nerd, which is true.

Markeisha Snaith: 49:03

Yeah.

Christopher Hutchins: 49:04

They might think because I do some conferences or whatever that I'm an extrovert. Well, in reality, in my personal life, I'm very content to just hang out at home, have peace and quiet, just relax. That's not my preference to be out all the time. That's not the way I'm wired. But we all have a bit of an actor role that we play when it comes to the jobs that we do. It's not who we are. And if you think about it that way, just start to think about some of the things that you could be doing differently. It doesn't define who you are. It's just another thing that you do, a tool in your toolbox. It's really not anything more than that. And we're all self-conscious for a variety of reasons. Some people you'd never know that, but I promise you we all are self-conscious on some level.

Markeisha Snaith: 49:55

Yes, to some degree, absolutely.

Christopher Hutchins: 49:58

I do want to say before we wrap, because you mentioned the Put Data First conference. Please keep your eyes peeled on LinkedIn because that event is going to be happening again, and it's going to be happening sooner. I believe it's June. I don't want to put a date out there because I don't have it in front of me. But just be watching for Put Data First on LinkedIn. And if you're not on the mailing list, I'm pretty sure you can go to putdatafirst.com and start getting information on it. It is a phenomenal event. You're going to have the opportunity to meet people from every industry you can probably imagine and more. You're going to find out the latest and greatest going on in AI and technology from people from every perspective. I was talking with people that were information security experts, CTOs, CISOs, clinical people from the healthcare space, everyone. Every kind of technology. It was fascinating. I'd never seen so many excited people, the ones that I knew were typically going to put the brakes on me when I was trying to talk about a new technology. But these people all showed up really excited because they're looking to find out how they can say yes and move things forward. And the collaboration is unbelievable. I've met so many people since that first time I went. And that's how we met. I've had countless other conversations where there are really cool things that we get to stay connected with. And you might actually find the opportunity to be involved and influence something that hasn't even happened yet. You don't think you have anything to say on the topic, but you're probably wrong. You probably have something to say.

Markeisha Snaith: 51:43

Exactly. That's how I felt. I was like, I don't know if I'm going to have much value to add. I just want to listen. But there was just so much information from so many different people, so many different perspectives, and you have to appreciate that. It was a really great conference.

Christopher Hutchins: 52:04

And I hope we see you all there. Markeisha, again, thank you so much for taking the time. I've loved our conversation. I can't wait for people to hear what you had to say. And I can't encourage people enough to go check out what you're doing, check out your site, check out all the training materials. Make yourself an appointment, have a consult. You can make your life better. This is one thing I can tell you for sure. You can make your life better, and this is one way I know you can do it. So please take advantage of that. And thank you again, Markeisha.

Markeisha Snaith: 52:37

Thank you, Chris, for having me. And yes, I'm looking forward. If you're watching this, I am looking forward to meeting with you, chatting with you. Definitely please reach out for any additional information or to work with me.

Christopher Hutchins: 52:49

Thank you so much.

Markeisha Snaith: 52:51

Thank you.

Christopher Hutchins: 52:52

That's it for this episode of The Signal Room. If today's conversation sparks something in you, an idea, a challenge, or a perspective worth amplifying, I'd love to hear from you. Message me on LinkedIn or visit SignalRoomPodcast.com to explore being a guest on an upcoming episode. Until next time, stay tuned, stay curious, and stay human.