Why AI Is Ruining the Way Your Employees Communicate | Katherine Tuominen

Are your employees using AI as a tool, or is it quietly eroding your company's culture? 

In this episode of The Signal Room, we explore why digital transformation is primarily a trust event, not a technical one. Guest Katherine Touminen, an organizational narrative strategist, joins the show to uncover the growing friction between top-down executive directives and the lived operational realities of frontline workers. 

We break down the immediate compliance dangers of employees typing confidential patient diagnoses into public large language models (LLMs). We also expose the rise of "AI slop"—such as the sudden verbal epidemic of corporate words like "delve"—and how relying on automated communication builds a toxic phenomenon known as "narrative debt."

Whether you are a CEO trying to safely implement AI or an individual contributor navigating career progression traps, this episode provides actionable frameworks for human-centric leadership.

Key Takeaways From This Episode:
• Defining Narrative Debt: What happens when public values don't match workplace reality.
• The AI Compliance Trap: How frontline healthcare workers accidentally expose secure data.
• Deconstructing AI Slop: Why automated email threads fail to create authentic team alignment.
• The Promotion Paradox: Why forcing top technical performers into management destroys trust.
• Intrinsic Rewards vs. Performative Wellness: What your staff actually wants from leadership.

Chapters

0:00 - The Human Reality of AI Adoption
1:15 - What is Narrative Debt in Corporate Culture?
4:54 - How AI is Ruining Human Jargon (The Delve Epidemic)
10:12 - Why Automated AI Email Threads Fail
12:54 - How AI Slop Destroys Authentic Communication
15:46 - Frontline Workers Are Accidentally Leaking Private Data to LLMs
17:29 - Building Psychological Safety During Tech Transformation
20:52 - The Promotion Paradox: Why Good Employees Fail as Managers
25:57 - Nudge Theory: How Leaders Can Win Back Workforce Trust
33:38 - Intrinsic Motivation vs Performative Wellness Benefits
37:25 - How to Build a Safe AI Communications Infrastructure

Connect with our Guest:
• Katherine Touminen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-tuominen

About The Signal Room:
The Signal Room explores ethical leadership, corporate data privacy, and organizational transformation in a modern workforce.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When nurses, for example, are not given the training models or the communications frameworks to know how to best use current technology. And so they may think, oh, it's harmless if I look up the meaning of this client's, whether it be diagnosis or the next step that I should take. But then what they're not realizing is these are large language learning models. When you're feeding it into these systems, it's learning from that, as you said, take this information and share it with the public.

Chris Hutchins 0:28

Welcome back to the Signal Room. I have got a special guest today I'm really excited to talk to you about. AI adoption is often framed as a technology challenge. But inside organizations, adoption rarely succeeds or fails because of the model alone. It succeeds or fails based on trust. Trust in leadership, trust in communication, trust in whether the organization's actions actually match the story being told about the change. In this episode of the Signal Room, I'm sitting down with Catherine Tuamanen to explore how organizational narratives shape workplace culture, ethical leadership, psychological safety, and ultimately the willingness of people to embrace AI-driven tran transformation. Because long before AI becomes a technical issue, it's first a human one. Every organization tells stories. Some are intentional, some are inherited, and some quietly shape culture without leadership even realizing it. These stories influence what people and employees trust, what they fear, what behaviors get rewarded, whether transformation efforts actually succeed once they reach the operational layer. That becomes especially important with AI because organizations often approach AI adoption as a technology rollout. What in reality is also a trust event. People are asking, will this help me? Will this replace me? About what the trade-offs are? Does the organization actually believe the narrative it's presenting? Catherine joins me today as someone who's got tremendous work experience. She's been exploring ethical leadership, workplace culture, organizational trust, and human realities that sit underneath modern transformation efforts. Conversation is going to look at way beyond AI implementation and into the deeper organizational dynamics that determine whether people are willing to believe in change at all.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure. What an incredible introduction.

Chris Hutchins 2:40

And I'm really excited to dig into some things that are front and center and the things that you're talking about. So in your work, you're dealing with multiple types of organizations, um, whether it's uh industry specific or domains inside of even an industry. When you are going into an organization, what kind of stories do you look for and what do you start to hear? And how is it different from your experience than what actually people think it is?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yes, absolutely. We see this a lot. There can often be a gap between the narratives that leadership tries to implement through their sort of top-of-the-line communications, whether that be the writing on the walls, the values that they sort of announce in public settings versus what's happening behind the scenes or internally within that organization. And I'm sure we've spoken about it a lot, but it's the idea that sometimes if there is that gap, it can create a narrative debt where people slowly, this trust slowly starts to erode. And it can be really hard to regain that trust once these gaps start to reveal themselves. And this is often most evident when the actions don't necessarily align with the communications that are being shared, and also when the communications aren't deeply connected enough with what's happening on the ground level of that organization and how it then trickles up. Often people like to almost apply communications top-down, but actually, as we know, culture is shaped both top-down and bottoms-up. And so, whenever we're thinking about the real stories that are happening both within the organization and within the impacts and the lives that they're supporting, we need to really look at both levels to accurately embody the story.

Chris Hutchins 4:22

So you you used a term that I haven't heard uh before in it in its debt concept. And I've heard it applied to a number of different uh different things over the last several months. But what you're talking about a delta that's pretty significant sometimes. Uh how how does that show up? How do you start to discern that there's a real uh distance between what is thought to be the message everyone's hearing versus what they really are hearing on the front lines?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Absolutely. So there are some little indications that can uh compound over time. So actually, one of the things that came up as I was reading through your book is the example of where someone jot something down on a fridge magnet or fridge notepad or something like this, instead of adding it to the systems that they were told to implement through their communications processes or through these sort of outputs. And these are little signs, it's not necessarily negative or positive, but they can be indications that somewhere the communication hasn't been accurately understood and actioned in the way that it was initially intended. So those are the light stage signs to look out for. But when it starts to be sort of a deeper concern, that's where we look into things like um psychological safety and this eroding gap in terms of the culture up within that organization itself. And so you could be looking at things such as whether someone has fulfilled what they promised to do or whether they've taken some shortcuts and why that may have occurred, or it could be something at like whether they say something um publicly or in a meeting, and then what was then sort of privately shared, or the whispers, you know, the behind-the-scenes conversations that were had elsewhere. And so these can all be signs of unrest or um distrust, and people often they don't start off with ill intentions or miscommunications on purpose, of course. We often notice that this is usually a way of them trying to problem solve independently because they don't feel that they can trust the leaders enough to say, hey, the thing you've suggested doesn't actually truly make sense for our on-the-the-ground everyday operational approach. And so that's where they look for these loopholes or um ways to kind of solve problem solve, and it doesn't always get reflected in terms of uh the ideal objectives that were once initially proposed.

Chris Hutchins 6:49

That kind of touches on something that I think is I'm surprised it's not getting more more uh attention right now, and it it's really how we're communicating and in the language that we're using. You know, I think about uh uh text messaging shorthand that's out there. Um there's there's other natural complications in the English language that it's been fun to meet so many people from from all over the world in the last few years, particularly when I was working in New York. I know that you're seeing people from all over the world in in New York now. So you you understand how complicated it is for someone coming into our country, even though they may have been taught English somewhere else, and how we're actually using words, uh it can be really, really confusing. I mean, I I always thought it was interesting to figure out how to how many ways to s to say the word to and what it what do they all mean. Uh that's the tip of the iceberg. Um but it kind of gets you know to the to something that you you've talked a little bit about, and it's really how the human lexicon is changing because of AI. Can you kind of tell me a little bit more about that and how are you thinking about it and what what are some of the implications?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Absolutely. Yeah, so the biggest um thing that we've noticed is obviously with any kind of technology change, there are shifts in terms of how that impacts behavior and the short forms that you mentioned. So back in the day when we had SMS, we would have SMS limitations where you could have only used a certain amount of characters. And so I'm a millennial and I grew up when we had all these shorthands, kind of like what you discussed. Whereas these days, we recently saw a publication from an organization revealing that words such as delve are now commonly used in verbal capacities when they were previously rarely used beyond just sort of like online blogs. And this is a classic example of how the lexicon is changing because of the usage of AI, and it often gets reflected back to us. So if we factor this into organizations and how we can encourage language and use that as a strength to really unify everyone under the same mission and aligned values, we can very much use this as an example. So when you are thinking about your communications, you could be considering how this is reflected to your audience and then lost my train of thought. Um, you could consider how this is being reflected to your current team, and then see do are they actually saying the same kind of verbiage back to us, or are they, is there a discrepancy there where they're not quite getting the messaging? And I think it is it also comes down to tone and really considering how this language has a lot more context in terms of what those words and the connotations actually mean. And so we do have to be much more mindful about the words that we're selecting and the implications they may have and how they're being perceived in today's world.

Chris Hutchins 9:47

So, how are you seeing this show up? And maybe you could give me a couple of examples or uh of how this kind of looks in an operational setting. Because I think I might assume that you mean something that you've you you said. Um I'm taking it to mean one thing, and you feel like I understood you. And so you we think that we both understand each other, but we could really be talking about some very different things.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yes. So some recent examples are a lot of us like to use AI to write emails or communicate, um, and whether it be spell checks or rephrase things a little bit. And this can be really tricky, especially when you're doing it in a rush and not actually checking to see if that language mirrors what you're actually trying to say. And it's also tricky because you think you're having a conversation with someone in a written paper trail, but actually you're kind of just having two AI conversations between each other, maybe briefly uh checking that to see if it's roughly aligned. But how much of that is truly what you would say if you were writing it end-to-end just by yourself without any extra assistance? And this is where we see growing gaps because it might be okay for a small action item here or a small action item there, but when these items come compound and create that kind of narrative debt as I described earlier, that's when you notice instead of it just being a few small inconsistencies, that's what I was trying to say, um, inconsistencies, then it adds up and really compounds into complete misalignment. And people wonder how do we get from A to Z without recognizing um the kind of warning signs in between. So that's a really obvious or simple first indication that messaging may be getting eroded quietly over time.

Chris Hutchins 11:29

That's the part that's so uh unfortunate because I think we're rid of polite now where they heard a stat just a few days ago that you know more than 50% of the content that's showing up on the internet now is being you know generated by AI. I think the the real concern that I had all along is the fact that it kind of drifts on its own using it. If you're trading your own model or you're or you're you know doing some writing. I mean, I I've had it like all of a sudden reach out and grab something from the internet that I've told it I wanted it to retrieve from um a list of my handwritten articles. It's just really bizarre. There's no there's no way to you can't really make it make it from proof, I guess, is the way to put it. You're gonna have to have probably eight pages of prompts to avoid something really simple, which is just unreasonable to do. But you you know, it's frankly more effective just to do it yourself the old-fashioned way. But it is an interesting thing because you know, like you said, people are using emails and the conversations tended to be between these two AI layers. This being there's a translation issue between them. But you've highlighted a translation issue that's unintentional between people.

unknown 12:46

Yes.

Chris Hutchins 12:47

It just seems like we're talking about exacerbating it if we don't understand it and start to address it there.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Exactly. And maybe adding to that as well, I think there are ways to obviously train these AI agentic systems to honor the guardrails that have been in place, but then you have to get the communications right from the top, and that can only start by first connecting with people at every level of that organization and really listening to their stories and what they need and why communication should be shaped a certain way. So that can really assist in terms of the outputs that you're then receiving from these AI algorithms to ensure that it does continue to be closely aligned with your core messaging. But maybe on that as well, a big thing that we've noticed is there is we're almost used to AI slob already. And it's so frustrating because I've been in the space for a long time and I've seen even early stage AI models that use copywriting tools, and there's certain sentence structure models that they like to use very often, such as if it's not if it's not this and that, it's called comparative phrasing. And I've noticed that everyone online, whether it be on LinkedIn or even just emails or anything else, because they're using these assisted tools, they're now using comparative phrasing, and it's just not necessary, and it's also not necessarily the way we talk on an everyday basis. And so I think working with a communications um person can be really helpful in terms of they can honestly identify, hey, this is AI, and we can see it from these in this way, whereas someone else may have just become accustomed to what it what is AI, and it's not always clear to how to draw that distinction.

Chris Hutchins 14:20

Yeah, I I think that's a that's a really good point to to bring up. And I I just think like I hit a pause button on that for a second and just encourage people when you're using it to write, just read it out loud to yourself if you haven't. If it doesn't sound like you, you might want to adjust that. Um because I I don't know about you, Catherine, but I have any other than what you just said to explain it, I've not heard you just in a normal sentence say, oh, it's not actually this, it's this. I mean the comparative thing is it's it's a that is an epidemic of famous that I'm seeing out there. I'm sure everyone else can relate to that. Where this starts to get a little bit um crazy and and uh unproductive is when these types of misunderstandings and uh just having a different understanding of what things mean actually starts to erode trust and it can start to get into some some really consequential uh things. Maybe you can talk a little bit about what you know what what do you see happening when employees realize that messaging it doesn't really actually match lived experience because this is not just uh a misunderstanding on a terminology standpoint, it can be a very real tangible misalignment that has the gap widening and leaders may not even be aware of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Absolutely. So um a recent example is when um nurses, for example, are not given the training models or the communications frameworks to know how to best use current technology. And so they may think, oh, it's harmless if I look up, you know, the meaning of this client's uh whether it be diagnosis or the next step that I should take. But then what they're not realizing is these are open, like LAL large language learning models, meaning when you're feeding it into these systems, it's learning from that, and it can take, as you said, take this information and share it with the public if someone else tries to ask that specific question and it's taken it as something it's learned. And so I think that from an organizational standpoint, there is a need to take the time to truly educate everyone within the organization on best use cases for AI, correct language use cases, you know, what to be asking it, what not to be asking it, because a lot of people think, oh, I'll just pop in a quick question and there's no harm to it. But when we're looking at HIPAA compliance, privacy, confidentiality, all of the legalities and compliance necessary within these industries, we recognize that it's not a quick or simple question. There are long-term and immediate uh consequences for that. So it truly is a case of considering the actionability of what you're encouraging. It can't just be a here's a document of best practice. It needs to be how does someone actually take this document and use it to improve their work or feed into the systems that they're responsible for, rather than having almost like a you know an SOP or a general piece that people should use, but they don't necessarily take seriously. So uh going back to your question around leadership messaging, not feeling aligned, I would say this really comes down to that psychological safety and having a chat with people on the ground level. So it cannot be something you discuss in boardrooms, in an executive, it can't be something that you theorize about and sort of estimate. You need to actually take time out of your schedule to speak with each person one-to-one and get to know where they're currently at, how can we best implement these systems based on what they would potentially use it for, and how can we really lean into the messaging that we're all collectively working towards and trying to embody within the company. And I think that that there is no shortcut to it. It very much requires um integrity in leadership, and it does need to be implemented both top-down and then encouraged bottoms-up.

Chris Hutchins 18:18

Yeah, I that this is a this is not an insignificant challenge right now, I think, for for what uh leaders are dealing with out there. Um if if I'm a CEO of a company tonight and I think that things are going reasonably well, but there's there's some concern that I have because I'm just not hearing feedback that is either positive or negative sometimes. But especially when I know that like if if I see some turnover going on, I'm not hearing any specifics behind it. What are some of the things that you that you that I should actually be doing into to kind of get into that? Because I think there's definitely a concern for most people. There's a it's not a concern, it's a d it's a maybe a d a comfort issue in terms of feeling like you can be transparent when uh the boss walks in, just wants to chat, just shoot the breeze. I mean, uh how how are some of the how do people deal with that kind of stuff and what do you what would you tell me uh if I'm trying to figure that piece out? Because they all seem intimidated when I walk into the room.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Yes, that's fair. I would say um a big part of this is how organizational hierarchies are traditionally structured. So, like you said, you know, the C-suite at the top and then maybe the interns at the bottom. And there are certain implications that come with that, which can be supportive to day-to-day management, but it's less supportive for building up that trust. So sometimes it might not, maybe the head executive of the company isn't the right person to be going up to, you know, a brand new intern and asking this question, but there can be a top-of-line manager that has built that trust, that does work with them on a daily basis, and is able to kind of get deeper into those conversations. So it doesn't always have to be the leader directly, although that would be great. It can be someone who is trusted within that space and then they pass up that information in a way that's accurate and um aligned. And when I say pass up, I mean with consideration as to whether that person has created the safety and trust to do so. So if you've been told something in confidence, of course, that's a different conversation. But um, if you're getting feedback, I think the biggest thing is to then see that that feedback is actually implemented and it will go somewhere, and you're not sort of taking a risk to share something that might be controversial or might quote unquote get you in trouble. But then if they've if you can see that that risk to some degree will be protected and will be honored and implemented in a way that's truly going to benefit not just yourself but everyone, then that has a different connotation.

Chris Hutchins 20:51

Yeah, I I think as I I've kind of thought about the the organizations I worked with over the last several decades. And I remember uh on two different occasions, two different organizations, really take taking some time to figure out career laggers and things like that. And primarily why what I'm going there is I just want to get your get your thoughts on this and what you're seeing uh from a scale standpoint. But oftentimes there's not a another level when someone reaches a really high proficiency with a specific skill set as an individual contributor, and then the organization has no other way to keep them than to move them into a supervisory type of a role. And oftentimes I'll give you a great example of my own experience with this phenomenal support specialist. I was working with a vendor, and he was awesome. I mean, clearly he deserved to be promoted, but they promoted him into another role you know, that he's you know supervising some function, and what was left was a massive, massive vacuum where he had been. And I don't know how he did in his new role, but he got moved there pretty quickly. So I mean I just wonder. How but how problematic do you think that is? Do organizations really have the right things in place to actually teach people the the human uh needs from a psychological safety standpoint. Are we helping people enough? Are we equipping them to take that kind of responsibility?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Yes, we get this question a lot in terms of leadership implementation and how that kind of creates a ripple impact. And like you said, often the only way to kind of move up in the career ladder is through leadership and management. But someone who's great at their job doesn't necessarily make them automatically great at being a leader. And something I love about your book again is the fact that you sort of say everyone is a leader to some capacity because they are advocating and sharing their message or insights with someone else who could help. And so it doesn't matter if someone has the title or not, they can almost steward the values of the organization and take pride in their work and find ways to make this a win-win for everyone. And I think that sort of, I guess, messaging is really important to encourage from a leadership perspective because it shows it almost flattens the hierarchy and encourages everyone to consider well, what can I do to be a leader regardless of titles, and um how can I contribute in a way that's meaningful both to me and the organization as a whole. So this kind of ties in with something else that I know we've spoken out about before, but this also reminds me of the quote that Richard Branson said around if PR or communications is not what you think, but it's what people say when you're not in the room. And I think this is so true, not just for those in the public space, but also for those who are in a leadership capacity. And a true marker of that level of leadership is the way that that leader is being trusted and valued within the communities that they serve. And it's something that we have to keep in mind when it comes to the behaviors and actions. So it's not just what people are saying, but it's truly, you know, how they make other people feel when they're saying that and whether their their message truly resonates.

Chris Hutchins 24:04

Yeah, I've I've I've had these aha moments a few times in my career when I when I realized that perception is reality. You have to you just have to deal with it. And you know, the things that are really clear in my mind, I think I'm communicating it clearly, and whether I am or not, if someone's not understanding it, then there's there's still something more I have to do. And you know, I think that's a challenge that leaders have uh uh just have to be aware of because you know it's not only showing up consistently doing what you say and all those things, but it's also making sure that you're clear, you're v verifying that you're clear uh in what you're you're getting the right kind of message back that that helps you to know if you really are uh people are really understanding you. I think it it's really important because when we start to talk about the trust that's required and the credibility that you have to have in an organization to lead through transformation, if you don't uh understand where some of these gaps are, you are you're gonna look you're gonna continue to have people be apprehensive and fearful. And the trust is gonna be right at the core of that. Um how do you how do you think organizations should with the leadership too in the organizations, how how can they actually be you know kind of short circuit this whole thing and you know start to address the the the the trust in the fear stuff at a really basic level? Yeah, we don't know everything, first of all, so we don't have all the answers. But whether we do or we don't, whatever we say, we need people to to be you know on board with it and be able to understand enough to follow and and support the organizational uh goals. But I mean how how do you go about that from a f if they're not trusting you? How do you win their trust?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yes. So there's a few kind of proven psychological nudge theory style implementation methods that you can do to really support these conversations. One of them is don't have a kind of glass bubble office and there's no privacy around sharing those insights, but also um starting off any conversation, immediately asking something from them and trying to, I guess, sh uh spoon out the information that you're wanting, what will also create a sense of uh defense. So instead, it's really about starting with sharing and being honest and open about why this conversation has come about. And that can often mean sharing something as a leader that maybe puts you at risk to some degree, not in a catastrophic sense, but something that might be truly personal or truly human to your story and why you're doing this in the first place. And that can really help bridge that trust because you're showing them, hey, I trust you enough to share something that was about my personal life or was about, you know, this journey that's brought me here today. And um, I hope that this will be a good indication that I'm with I have skin in the game too, and I'm willing to kind of take it that step further and build these real connections. Um, another aspect to psychological safety is um encouraging that you can let them know, you know, this stays in the room if you want it to. We will not pass this up unless it's truly something you see as beneficial and part of the wider mission that we're working towards. And also, I think I read this the other day, but including a personal goal that they are working towards that has nothing to do with work, but obviously work can assist with that, whether it be through the funding or the networks that they they may be requesting or even time off, um, you know, there's so many different ways that it could be amplified, and then also asking them their their work goals as well, and seeing that these two things don't have to be separate. In fact, they work together because, as you said, people spend so much time at work that we need to acknowledge that, sometimes more so than with their family. And so instead of treating these two things as silos and encouraging people to you know leave their home life behind, instead, it's a matter of saying, we want you to succeed personally and professionally. Let's start that conversation and see how we can merge these together to some degree to ensure that you are reaching both of these aspects and likewise supporting the company's overall um initiative.

Chris Hutchins 28:19

This is such this is such a a fascinating topic to me because that there's just so many there's so many different uh approaches to to leadership that I've seen and when it comes to getting people on board with a mission. I think there's a there's there's two different sides to th to what I've seen when it comes to getting really behind the the the the big why questions uh about what we're doing as an organization. Um but then there's these other areas that are a little bit more they'll call it challenging, uh, but it's the things that make us really, really uh powerful in an organization, particularly doing healthcare, is that you you're getting people from uh all kinds of different perspectives from uh all kinds of cultures, backgrounds, religions, from all over the world, essentially any of the organizations I've worked in anyway. And there's this w acknowledgement that we're all bringing something different to the table, which I think is phenomenal. But we're at a point now you're talking about the the trust issue where there's an there's definitely a a difficult uh thing to navigate to just get people to focus on the things that are really core and central to the mission so that we can actually accomplish what we need to. And there may be reasons that are legitimate that you feel very uncomfortable about a particular approach to to uh a problem solving a problem that we're doing. How often how big of a deal is that? And where do how where do you think it stems from? Is it that we're just not emphasizing the core mission stuff enough? Or is it that we're just focusing some a little bit too much on the wrong things?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

That's fair. I would say um, you know, it's one thing to kind of publicly state the the the core why or the mission. And the the biggest gap we see is kind of what you've implied, where there if there is the bump in the road, if there are serious hurdles, this is perceived as almost uh taboo, or oh, we have to approach this with caution. And that's reflected in, you know, shoulders go up, tone gets more serious, um, people start to approach it in in a way that seems delicate and fragile in some way. And again, that doesn't necessarily encourage those to open up and um uh and rally together and support. So um I would actually say it's during tough times when the best teams are forged, because that's when you have um, you know, like any kind of superhero story, um Joseph Campbell heroes journey, you have the heroes, which is might be your team, and you have you, you you're the guide, and then you have this problem, this kind of like um thing that's been thrown at them. And it's a moment for them to kind of rise up, step up collectively, support each other, and the the rewards that they receive from that in terms of seeing that they've been able to go through this and come out stronger, is absolutely incredible. And we've seen that those end up being the people who stay in the organization for you know decades and and beyond because they truly have have that kind of connection that uh that can only be forged potentially during these these tough times and knowing that each person has each other's back. So I would say going back to, I guess, more of a tactical approach to um how to even start something like this, it would really have to come down to being honest, or at least from what we've observed, being honest about the fact that it is challenging and offering that sense of hope, offering that sense of we know you can do it, and we are gonna do everything we can, everything in our power to go above and beyond, protect you, protect the the people that we are trying to support the most, and really um collectively step into the next version of where this is this organization is heading after the storm.

Chris Hutchins 32:05

Yeah, that I I I love that. And I I think it's it's so true that it it's it's just the consistency. You you gotta you gotta keep showing up, keep making sure that you're asking questions, you're listening, uh you're you're getting the feedback. And you know, honestly, whether you know the answers or not, sometimes you still you just need to ask the questions. And right, and you you oftentimes will find out some things that you thought you already understood and they're really not this not what you thought. Because the people are in these roles, if you're an executive, you have people in your organization who are spending years of their lives building core competencies in their sp in their specific area. And they hope that you understand it, but the the frustration that sometimes people have is they don't necessarily understand how big your scope is as an executive. And so they think you should be able to understand with granularity all the things that they're dealing with. But that's just not true. And I think it's an important thing as a leader to make sure that you're you're asking questions. Don't don't don't assume yes, they're you know, you you might see that the the progress is great, numbers look good, but there may be some things behind the scenes that are problematic that they're you're not hearing about because these people are just going the extra mile to fix it. Um you're talking about AI and you want people to raise their hand and say, hey, we've got something that we can we could do better with, they've got to trust you. They've got to start somewhere where where there's a a relationship that they feel like they could really tell you what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Mm-hmm. And maybe to round out that as well, this kind of goes back to intrinsic motivations over extrinsic rewards. So that's a big thing I kind of speak up speak about often because people often think, well, if we give this person a big bonus because they've assisted us, or if we kind of, you know, do a flashy gym membership or whatever it may be, that will be enough to really rally support and get people on board and stop the um, you know, absenteeism and burnout and various things that you've touched on. But um the reality is that uh a lot of stats around burnout specifically, it shows that people are are more likely to leave their job if they feel that their day-to-day support hasn't led to an actionable project or uh they can't see how it's really creating that impact that they were hoping for. And so one of the most risky things leaders can do is chop and change, you know, saying one thing one day, pivoting the next, changing uh based on different uh, I guess, like executives' opinions, it can be very tricky because then again, it goes back to that trust piece. So when you're thinking about how can we really rally team the team and create that sense of unified support through our communications, it does come down to asking questions, and that also includes around, you know, what does this person truly want to support their well-being and not just be a performative wellness sort of device and instead ask them, you know, is it you that you need more time off during certain periods? Is that you want flexible working hours? What truly will be uh beneficial for you so you can kind of show up and and be your best best person at work and deliver the impact that we know you're capable of? And they won't always know the answer to that, but it at least starts the conversation and shows that there are pathways, and that's another way of encouraging trust because you're essentially rewarding them in a way that they want to be rewarded.

Chris Hutchins 35:31

Yeah, that I I think that's an important thing to to recognize as well. I mean, it the the thing that's providing the satisfaction in the job may not be what you think it is. But I think that's you're not gonna know that unless you're getting to know the people that you're working with in a personal way. I'm not saying you're becoming best friends, but you just understand who they are, what what they're really uh passionate about. And I mean that that's a game changer when you know that, because it actually helps you to start to realize where there's things that are gonna come up that you need help with, that someone actually has the interests and the aptitude that they'll probably take it and knock it out of the park for you, but you will never know that unless you're having these kind of conversations.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Exactly. Very true.

Chris Hutchins 36:14

So as we're kind of getting into this transformation like in at a really crazy pace now, communication it it's starting to be more AI assistant, like you mentioned uh earlier. How do how do we how do you see this playing out and what do we need to do? What should we do right now, honestly, uh to to figure out how to really make sure that we're not further damaging and eroding trust, but we're we're actually making sure that there's an understanding. And you know, we would get people pulling in the same direction. I get I just worry that the the place that we're at already added the distance that got created because of the pandemic. We're like we're not even in an office hanging working together, but that seems the way ever is everywhere. But a lot of organizations never have come back. So that you know the drop by, hey, how are you doing conversation doesn't happen anymore, it seems anyway.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yes, the water cooler moments really do add up in terms of building those connections and getting to know what's going on with that person beyond just diving straight into work. So, in terms of communications with the increasing AI adoption, I would say the the biggest thing is to start by listening first and asking those questions, as we've already touched on. But then once you've established where where you're at and the gathered that feedback from the ground level, then you have a better picture of where to begin in terms of that AI-assisted communications and how it can support the overall organizational mission. So from there, it is very important to create those guardrails around the systems you've built. And you cannot just give it to an IT guy or a developer because they're not communicators necessarily. And so there's a lot of talk around bibcoding, but it's the idea that you would need to work with communications experts, with people who are directly in a point of contact and representing the brand as a whole or the company as a whole. And then that's when you can create the infrastructure around the actual AI-assisted communication, whether that be through internal communications, documents, or messaging that is shared throughout different teams. And this will obviously, you know, all the things we've heard around saving time, but also more importantly, making sure that it truly is aligned with the wider organizational values and the direction that you're hoping to take with these um upcoming changes. So that's typically how we would approach any AI communications infrastructure, and it's definitely doable, it just does involve that initial groundwork.

Chris Hutchins 38:52

So we're kind of landing the plane, so to speak. I only ask you to kind of think about a couple different things. And I think the the first would be probably an obvious one, but if you had to send one message to to CEOs out there who are you know at this point in time weighing where they where do they go with AI? How what are some of the key things they need to be thinking about? How do you how would you say that they should be thinking about guidance and keep key items that we think would be really important for them to tackle if they're not already doing it?

SPEAKER_01 39:27

Yes, so most urgent is definitely encouraging critical thinking within your organization around the usage of AI. So I know you've talked about this with other um guests you've had on the show, but AI really should be a co-pilot, a partner, a thinking buddy. It shouldn't think for you by any means. And I think that um right now a lot of stats show most people are using AI just as like a search term, not necessarily knowing, you know, what is a large language learning model, why is this different from you know the other things that are available. And so I think it is important to create a training ground for anyone, no matter what level of the organization they're at, to know here is how what we define as the correct usage of AI, here is what we encourage you to do in terms of critical thinking, and here are the guardrails that we've implemented to best assist you so you're not accidentally doing something that could risk our licensing, compliance, etc. So this is an absolute must. It's not something that they can sort of put off for later, as I know many organizations are sort of hoping for. And I think that um also equally it's it's not a case of don't use it at all, because then equally you risk falling behind, and chances are someone's probably going to use it if they're overworked, burnt out, and just tired and want to quickly get something out. So it isn't essential to basically get ahead of this as soon as as uh you can and um hire the right team to assist in implementing that.

Chris Hutchins 40:54

I love that. Changing it up a little bit, but kind of similar thing. What what do you tell somebody who's you know early in their career that are if they're in an organization, they haven't probably been there that long, but all this stuff is going on with with AI, they're probably scared about losing their job. Uh what what would you what would you do for uh what would you say to some of these people that are wrestling with that? What are the things that you'd recommend that maybe that they're not doing?

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yes, thank you for asking this. I love this question. Um one of the things that we've we've said, even to our team members, is now that AI can do a lot of the basically rote learning stuff, the copy paste, the the things that require kind of like day-to-day administration administrative work that um isn't necessarily always the best use of um original thinking, creativity, connection, all the things that we love as humans and want to celebrate more. What we want to do instead is um, yes, automate the things that are more of the lesser important day-to-day tasks that take up a lot of time. And instead, where can we best be using your time, your brains, the passions that you love most? And I think in that way it really frames it as an opportunity to encourage them to explore what is it that you truly enjoy most, um, what things that are are you curious about learning more about and practicing, and how can you encourage more of that critical thinking to uh analyze what are you know the upcoming trends, what are the um implications that this could have in the future, and come up with really original, um incredible ideas and frameworks that can potentially pave a pathway to a equitable, better world that we're all sort of hoping to uh contribute to in some capacity. So I would say that that is um a better reframe. It's less about will it replace me and more about how can you do more of what you love.

Chris Hutchins 42:42

That that's the perfect way to say it. But I I love that. How can you do more of the love? That that's brilliant. Catherine, you know, we're the the only reason that we got into this conversation really was just connecting around narrative, this you know, storytelling, uh, you know, some of it somewhat in the context of the of the book that I that I've written, and you you've you've talked a little bit about. But it really highlights uh really significant thing that we have probably lost some skills at. I think uh I don't know if it's in the school system or if it's a result of uh social media or what whatever it is. But storytelling is really, really important. And you know, you've you've built companies uh on this. I I'd just love for you to tell the tell the audience a little bit about what you do and you know where they can find you if they're having some difficulty with narratives and need some guidance, how do they reach out and get some some expert help?

SPEAKER_01 43:42

Thank you, absolutely. So we specialize in the health and wellness industry, and the biggest thing that we've noticed is a lot of leaders reach a point in their career where they want to give back. They have they're very much at a they see where the healthcare industry is currently and they recognize the gaps. And they do want to create real tangible change and they see themselves as a voice in that space. So the the distinction here is moving away from, I guess, just being known as for the company or for the brand that they represent, and also becoming a thought leader independently of that. And so we work across both ends of that conversation where yes, we can do the brand or company communications and sort of support that implementation both top-down and bottoms up, but we also work with the leaders directly to shape if you were on a talk tomorrow, or if you were to be a public speaker or write a book or create other assets that can be shared with the next generation to give the world more hope or to connect with other leaders in this space who are actually looking for solutions, what does that story actually look like? And the short version of this is it often focuses around their core frameworks or IP. And this cannot be replicated with AI. It really comes from decades worth of experience and consolidating that into a clear, unified message and framework that you can implement and share publicly to create the change that you're hoping for. So that's really where we come in.

Chris Hutchins 45:14

Thank you so much for that. For my listeners, uh you'll you'll find all of the information that you that you could possibly need in the show notes. I want to make sure that you know how to get a hold of Catherine and her team in just a short time. I've been learning a lot already. I think we only had our first conversation about a week and a half, maybe a little over a week ago. Um, but you know, it's been fascinating for me. I there's a whole side of the you know the storytelling that I've certainly been aware of it when it comes to doing data and analytics. In fact, I actually had this crazy uh reveal at one point a few years ago. I was sitting next to another chief data and analytics officer. She asked me what the most important role was in her org chart. And I guessed it was an analyst. She told me it was a journalist. I was like, that's the first time I've heard that. But it it makes a lot of sense because you knowing what what to be what to message, knowing what's important and how to how to communicate it, that that's really uh uh it's a it's a very specific set of skills that uh they they don't just happen. So I I really appreciate what what you and your your team are doing and the the great work that you've done. Uh way beyond uh just branding a communication, there's this whole you know wellness part. I mean, I I heard your passion about it, you know, the first time we spoke. And I just think it's a really awesome thing to have people that are in this space with the skill sets that you bring to the table. And uh I'm excited to continue to see your success. And uh again, to my audience, definitely check our check her website out. You know, if you if you're looking for some assistance, you can absolutely find it. So I appreciate that. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Thank you. It's been an absolute pleasure, and I look forward to many more conversations ahead.

Chris Hutchins 47:09

Thank you. That's it for this episode of the Signal Room. If today's conversation sparks something in you, an idea, a challenge, or a perspective worth amplifying, I'd love to hear from you. Message me on LinkedIn or visit SignaroomPodcast.com to explore being a guest on an upcoming episode.