Babe, Just Post the D*mn Content

🍸Join the waitlist for Cocktails & Close, the BEST networking membership for 6-figure founders ready to scale. 🍸👉 Sign up HERE to secure your spot

 Does creating content for your business makes you want to throw your phone across the room…  same. 

If you’ve ever sat there staring at a blank screen trying to come up with the perfect hook, spent way too long editing a reel that never got posted, or convinced yourself you need a full production team to show up online… this episode is for you.

Today, I’m sitting down with the literal content magician herself, Rachael from Chateau Marigold, and we’re talking about the content blocks keeping smart women invisible online. We get into how to create spicy hooks, why perfectionism is secretly killing your consistency, and the truth about what actually makes people buy from you online.

Spoiler alert: your content doesn’t need to be perfect. It just needs to exist.

In this episode, we cover:
 ✨ How to create stronger hooks without freezing every time you hit record
 ✨ The biggest mistakes people make with content (and what to do instead)
 ✨ Why messy content performs better than over-polished content
 ✨ How to stay consistent when you feel like you have zero time
✨ The truth about the 27–50 touchpoints people need before buying from you
✨ Why visibility matters if you sell high-ticket offers or services
✨ The difference between content that builds trust vs. content that gets ignored
✨ Why AI should support your business—not become your personality online
✨ How to stop overthinking and finally start posting

Honestly? This episode is the permission slip to stop waiting until it’s perfect and just start showing the hell up.

Connect with Rachael:

Follow Rachael at @chateaumarigold on Instagram or connect with her directly if you need help making your content actually work and look good.

Or follow her personal account HERE 

 content marketing, social media strategy, content creation tips, Instagram marketing, visibility in business, female entrepreneur, personal brand, high ticket sales, social media for business, content hooks, business marketing, entrepreneur mindset, online business, service based business, perfectionism in business

Grab your spot at my next Networking Speed Date, Sign up HERE 🍸✨

Work with me: www.yourgirlmedia.com

Follow on Instagram: @yourgirlmedia

Want a Podcast Strategy Sesh to brainstorm your podcast? DM me at  @yourgirlmedia 

 Join the conversation: DM me your biggest biz question or what topic you want next on the pod!

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If doing content for your business feels like a full-time fucking job that you didn't apply for, but you also know it literally matters for your business, yay! I'm glad you landed on this episode. Hey y'all, welcome to Your Girl, the podcast for six to seven figure coaches and service providers who are ready to scale their business and hit their dream numbers. I'm your host, Murray, the founder of Your Girl Media, a boutique agency and podcast company helping scale people just like you through podcasting strategy in my badass community, cupcills and clothes. Okay, enough with the formalities. Today we have on a regular. We love her. It's Rachel Perry from Chateau Marigold. Oh my God, guys, she's such a fucking vibe. You know what it means when she's here. It's more of a yap sesh. We're gonna be talking about how to create spicy hooks that convert without overthinking them because that always happens to me. We're talking about how to stay consistent in your content when you have zero fucking time as a business owner. We're gonna talk about how you need up to 27 to 50 touch points to get people to even buy from you. So, one little announcement before we get into the episode. I don't have my microphone right now. I'm traveling in Europe. So that's why the quality of this intro sounds like And the second thing is I'm getting slammed with work. I think I'm gonna turn this podcast into more of a Wednesday podcast. So just if you're a loyal listener, and if lately you've been like, where the fuck is the podcast? I think I'm gonna go from a Monday to a Wednesday podcast. Okay, enough of me. Let's get into the episode. So today we have on the fucking content edition of Chateau Marigold. Hello, Rachel. Hi. Okay, I usually ask what cocktail is your business, but this is your second time coming on. So now I'm like, okay, what can I ask? I'm gonna say, where are you sipping your cocktail? Like, where are you with your cocktail? Are you on a New York rooftop? Are you in a beach club in Bali? Are you in a like divey speakeasy?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

Um, I feel like right now, I honestly think I'm in like a gorgy, quaint, beautiful village outside of Paris. Wow. Where we've taken a little train, you know what I mean? And we're having a day trip outside of Paris, and we are like at a cafe, beautiful street sitting outside, you know, gorgeous little cafe table, the wooden cafe chair.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yes, the one that hurts your butt, but you keep sitting in it.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah, hurts your butt, hurts your back, leaves imprints, uncomfortable, but yeah, we're sitting in it.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Ass overspilling.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Ass cannot fit on the seat. Okay, it's around that round bottom of the chair. Yep. And the little lip on the around the side of the wood that's digging itself into your side.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

But you have the approval spritz, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

Yeah, I think I'm having a French 75. Um, and you know, um, I don't know why, but it seems like maybe I'm smoking in this because somehow it's better for you. It's a French cigarette, so it's healthy. I don't know why. Yeah, I mean, it's not uh for sure, but like I don't even know why. Like anything in Paris is so beautiful. Like I remember I walked by and there was like a napkin and like a cigarette butt on the ground like across from the Louvre, and I was like, look at this.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

No, I feel the same way when I'm in certain places, like even the trash is beautiful. Like that's how I feel. Like in New York, I'm like everything everything, like everything. Oh, I don't know. I tell I'm so inspired in New York that I'm like that trash can, you know, like that dirty subway platform is oh, the art, you know. I feel like when you love a city, you love everything about the city.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah, like and that's how you know like Paris could do no wrong, but being a New Yorker, I'm like, uh the trash, no yucky subway platform. Like, we love the fact that we have that public transit, but uh yeah. I mean, but I do love the juxtapositions of things, so like really beautiful, like high-end editorial photo shoot in a bodega or like on a subway platform, like just chef's kiss, beautiful divine.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Yes, yeah, yes. Okay, so you're having your cocktail on the outskirts of Paris on one of those rickety chairs. Um, but tell us actually about your business, Chateau Marigold, and like what's your what's what's your thing? Like, what's your magic thing?

SPEAKER_02 4:24

I mean, you know, digital marketing, we love helping people tell stories, brands and businesses that are incredibly badass, you know, tell their story online. And I really love giving people time back, time back to do what they love with content that looks as good as it performs, you know, it feels amazing. They get to build an incredible community, but they also get to do what their zone of genius is or what they're passionate about because our clients get like no less than 60 hours back in a month after working with us. And something that we also see is like right around day 45, because they finally have like creative freedom, you know, their mental capacity is flowing, they are like launching new offers, scaling bigger things, growing bigger communities, coming up with these creative thunderbolts. And I think that's the real magic of what we do. Like, you can definitely find people that are going to do social, but we are so much fun. We love having an amazing vibe with our clients. And when you work with us, like our system and our process just literally gives you so much time back.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

So, you know, you know, like your your creativity, your creativity in your brain, I think is what's because there's a lot of content managers out there. That's that's there's a lot, but to find someone who like gets it, like it's they get it, you know. That's pretty rare. I can name on like a cut my hand how many content managers I've met where I'm like, they fucking get it. Like they the creativity is just like overflowing, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

I love that. I do love that. I love hearing people's ideas, and like people oftentimes already have a really great idea. They have um, it's very rare that I'm meeting someone that's just totally lost in the sauce, and that's who I want to work with, right? Like, I I love that, but I do think sometimes it's hard to like visualize how it will translate onto social, what will like light you up as you do it, and then there's this amazing added component of like, oh, and you'll edit it and put it together, you know what I mean? I just get to go and have this main character moment, and then yeah, we can take your concept to the next level.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Okay, so I um I have a community called Cocktails and Clothes shout out, and I asked a certain question So good. Yeah, I asked everyone in the community, like, hey, where are you feeling stuck with your content? And I was like, all right, so here are the blocks I want to walk us through, and I think we'll also get into some of the things you emailed me. It'll naturally come up. So there's like five blocks that I was seeing, like, okay, what is everyone really dealing with? And the one that was most voted on was how to create a spicy hook. Like, what's the science behind a hook? And like, do you have any tricks for us? Because I personally and all these women that that commented on this, we freeze. Like, we freeze when it comes to creating a hook. And to me, I end up not creating it at all. Like, I end up not creating it at all in general because I'm stuck on the hook.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

I mean, a great hook. Everybody, I think everyone is hooked by hooks because there's a lot of like scarcity marketing, like you only have three seconds to convert them to get onto their thing. That is definitely true. And also your ideal audience who cares about your message is going to listen to you and watch your whole video um because they are gonna love the value that provides. But all that to say, yes, you do need a hook. I think a combination of hooks is important. So I think everyone gets stuck on like the written hook, like you know, being like, we really need a strong, grabby hook, but then the video is kind of boring, you know? They don't put any overlay over it. Um, they're not telling any story. So I think it's about using a combination of hook. You can use an audio hook, you can use a visual hook, and you can also use your verbal hook to keep people going. Um, and so I think you can some of the ones that do really well are like, Did you know X? Um, and then you validate yourself, right? So um you might say something like, Did you know that hooks are really important in the first three seconds? As a social media manager myself. So that gives me credibility to be able to talk to you about it. So you might stay a little bit longer to hear me yap because I am on social. So you're like, oh, maybe she's an expert, maybe she can help me. But at the same time, I might have an overlay of three or four different videos where people are doing the this is the hook trend or something like that. So it gives somebody something visual to look at, and then there's also something that they're gonna be listening to, and then a reason to pique their curiosity. So I think it's about using a combination of the hooks and then also just asking a really great question. One of my favorite hacks for some of the hooks is I mean, straight up go to Google and just type in um some of the keywords around your subject matter. If it's like um moving to Spain from America, maybe you type that in and then you look and see what are the most common questions um that are being asked, and then you can build your hook off of that. You know, everybody's talking about yeah, everybody's talking about moving to Spain.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

So here's what you need to know. Okay, I actually just typed that in. So moving to Spain, and here are some hooks you could probably do. So I looked, I scrolled down to the bottom, and it says moving to Spain as an American. So how would you how would you turn that into a hook? Moving to Spain as an American, if that's a typed in thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

You could go a couple different ways. So, like a pattern interrupt hook might be something like everybody's saying to move to Spain as an American, but here's the reasons why I wouldn't. And it's like moving to Spain as an American, I would not do that. And then maybe you are then giving them all the reasons why you would, um, to like interrupt or disrupt. Um, moving to Spain as an American, here are the top five things that you need to know. I mean, everybody's kind of using that, but like let's say this was like Paris or something, you want to have your main character moment, like Emily in Paris. Here's everything you need to know about moving to Spain, right? Or sorry, to Paris. So those are some of the ways that you can do it. You can also do things like a travel alert, or if there is a reason why you might not do very well. So, like, for example, if I was talking about Spain and I wanted to maybe like disrupt, it's like um your financial plan for moving to Spain might be in jeopardy. And here's why. Um, the dollar is actually you will lose 20 cents on the dollar for every single dollar earned if you take it over to Spain.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

So here's what I have been looking into in general.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Okay, so you need to consider that and future proof your savings, right? How are you gonna actually make that happen? So you can start to get into the mind of your um, I like to look up a couple of things before I get started. So yeah, I will use that Google to look at like hooks. If I am thinking about something like a transcontinental move for my client to talk about, I will look at exchange rates, I will look at like travel trends or anything that they might need to know about in order to kind of support their journey and then help them make a change. If this was somebody talking about like a post for ditch your social media manager and use AI to like do all of your content, um, I might do something like I spoke to an AI expert on the exact ways that we should be using our AI to support our businesses, and here's how you don't want to use them. So maybe we'll start there and then in part two, I can tell you all about how to use it.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Um you do like a play of like contrasting themes of like here are the ways this is happening, but don't do it this way. Like that's kind of like that contrast push and pull. I think that for everyone listening, the simplest thing to do is to go to Google, look at what's happening at the bottom of Google when you type in that phrase. Yep, and then you can kind of go from there. Like one, it already has a hook on here. It says seven biggest mistakes when moving to Spain. That's a hook, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

It is, and that would be highly searchable because it's already there. Yeah, that is Google's always gonna show you the top asked questions. Um, so that's definitely a way to go too. So pattern interrupt, anything that's disrupting. And again, think about it. I think again, a lot of people get stuck on the copy hook, which is important, but you need to blend it with another hook, either something that is visual and sound. I would say a basic is like a copy hook or where a written hook where you're kind of talking to the audience and saying, like, if this then that, or like if you want to lose 10 pounds by summer, then this is what you need to do, right? Or I um I saved $250,000 in one year, and here's how I did it. Like that, yes, is a great hook. But if you pair that with maybe B-rolls of all the ways that you like saved money in little overlays that you're going to expand upon later, that is going to be good. And then if you want to go excellent, you're pairing it with a sound, maybe the cash register, ch-ching, you know, at the same time. The little sounds that's like helping you braid it all together.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Okay, wow. What about okay? The next block is for someone who is like they're just not consistent, they have zero time, which is ideally your ideal client, let's be honest. But like, let's be let's just talk to this person right here, right now, who is me. Um, who yeah, you're just not consistent with posting, like you're just because probably because of all of these other blocks. You have to come up with the hook, there's a lot of editing, like, does it have to be this big production? You know, can there can there be a way someone can just simply post and like be more consistent about it and then work their way up to these like cool edits, cool hooked researches, all that jazz? Yeah, or is it not worth posting at all? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

It's definitely worth posting, and that's how I think it's my whole livelihood. Um it's not just because it's my job, okay? So yeah, I'm not telling you to post on socials just because um it's my job. It is it's important for your business to have a footprint online. And I just actually did like a masterclass on this, but you don't really want to be online to be an influencer. Like maybe that is your aspiration, but like nine times out of 10, people know they like need to be online. And honestly, the reason why you want to be online is because you want the opportunities that come with being visible. And um, there's several creators who talk about this, like having an inbound life. And if you are in business, it's just smart because creating a presence online and having more of inbound flow helps to remove other tasks from your business, like pitching, like constantly having to be in sales mode. Not that you shouldn't have some sort of you know sales engine in place, but when you have name recognition, when you have visibility, and when you have trust, it makes all of that stuff so much easier. And it helps to make your time go a little bit farther as a CEO and reduce pressure on your business systems. And I don't know one business owner, especially at like our level and you know, doing what we're doing, trying to scale, who doesn't need a business model that's gonna work smarter, not harder. So yeah, it does feel like an investment of your time, your creativity, your work, and or your money if you are outsourcing it to somebody, but it is compounding, similar to what you talk about with podcasts all the time, right? Like you having a presence in all of these places is important. The other reason is that kind of like the marketing funnel is really changing. There's a trust recession that's happening. Um, gone are the days that you can just make a passive Chat GBT um PDF and put up a link, and people are gonna buy your course. They want to have experiences. And honestly, cold pitching, I'm not gonna say it does not ever, ever work. That is not what I'm gonna say. But there was an era where cold pitching really, really, really worked, but you have to think about it. Some publications, like really beautiful magazines and stuff, only have like four editors across the whole entire publication, and they get like 10,000 requests a week. You, it's just the numbers don't add up in your favor. Um, they add up for some, but not all. And one of the ways that publications have started to cut people out is by going strictly paid, like doing paid um advertorials. So if you want a beautiful article written about you, you are going to pay for it. And then if you want it featured online, then you'll pay for that too. And there's a certain window of time that that'll happen. So if that $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 is not in your budget, you're able to get free attention and free visibility as the platforms stand today. That could change. So capitalize on it now. And um put yourself in all those rooms where those tastemakers are, right? Um, you have to think about gatekeepers as well, like the people who are gonna sign off on paying you. You wanna be in the social spaces where those editorial leaders are, where the tastemakers are, where the COO who's gonna sign off, even though the marketing manager is really excited about you, or the learning and development manager is really excited about you. They have people they have to answer to about how they're spending that money. So if you're on something like LinkedIn and the COO happens to see it and is like, oh Marie, yeah, I I've seen some of her stuff. I know what you're talking about. You, oh, you wanna you want to give her 10? Okay, all right, let's let's take a look. That's huge right now, um, to be able to convert people from cold to warm leads because you have an inbound flow of attention.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

But like, what about like I think we know it is important, but like what about the people who literally don't have time to be creating these crazy ass reels with these crazy ass hooks? Like, yeah, I've I I don't know. I would like to ask this. Like, I be I I be doing I I I be doing I be doing memes. I do, I do memes, I do carousels a lot. Is that okay to are carousels and memes okay for those of us who are struggling with like actually sitting down, creating a reel with all these hooks and fancy things?

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah, you want to be, you'll get better with time. You'll get better with time. You were, I think your original question too was like, is it better to just like um yeah, put something up, or you know, it has to be fancy and perfect? You will get better with time. And you can ask any creator out there, like any creator out there, they will tell you the ones that are the biggest are the ones they kind of like shot from the hip and edited, like right then, you know, came home from walking on a hike and had a thunderbolt and they were really sweaty and they just went for it, edited, threw it up, and you know, it just like lands the energy of the content lands. So I would say get up and get out there, you know, and try not to listen to all of the noise. Like you, there's gonna be a lot of marketing, obviously, and like you are in business or you're paying attention to that. But at the end of the day, creating that outflow that is gonna create an inbound life for you is going to be huge. So if you're having trouble with posting your content, figuring out what to do, putting it together, I would suggest just block out an hour so that you can map out your ideas, put another hour into like shooting and editing, and then fucking schedule it. Just schedule it. Every single app, including snoozy old LinkedIn, who I love, because you can make a lot of money over there. But I'm just saying, like every app allows you to schedule. So just schedule it ahead of time. And even if you have to do for a certain season, like B-roll with overlay memes, do that and just schedule it ahead of time because it'll drop, you'll start to see little momentum happen and you'll feel better than being like, shit, it's three o'clock. I haven't posted anything. You're gonna feel so bad and have the ick all day and all night, you know, because you don't have the time. So I would just like build an hour out into your CEO time to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Okay. That kind of rolls into the next one. Like, there's also the person who never posts content because of perfectionism. Maybe they're working on that same reel for like days or like that same carousel, and they're just getting frustrated and they're staring at too long, and they're like, this isn't perfect. So I'll it just won't go out, and then they're not posting.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah. I mean, I even deal with that with clients where they'll be like, you know, wanting to edit something into the high heavens, and there's just like a point where it's like it is really great. Um, you I was talking to someone recently um just about like, yeah, stepping more into the CEO spotlight era of my business and how uncomfortable I was a little bit with that. And she was like, you know, right now it really sounds like you're in conflict because your desire to impact and grow and scale is beginning to outweigh your need for comfort. And she was like, that's exactly where you should be. Um, a big part about being a business owner is being uncomfortable with uncertainty and uncomfortable, uncomfortable with discomfort. And this is another one of those areas it. I could go into like a lot, but ultimately, like you don't want to have a cringe moment and you want a little bit more psychological safety, and your nervous system isn't comfortable with being perceived yet. Um there's some work that you're gonna need to do with that, and I bet you didn't know your social media manager is gonna also probably be a bit of your therapist in this regard. But um ultimately getting the reps out there is what is going to help you to feel a little bit more um comfortable with it. You will get better with time, you'll start to like have a flow and edit. And um, again, there's seasons. Maybe there's seasons where you can really edit your little heart out, you know, and then there's some seasons where you need to get it up and get it out. But one thing that is to your advantage is that with all of this AI content and um, you know, perfect AI is like a little bit too perfect, like skin kind of looks a little bit too rubbery, the carousel copy just doesn't land well. People would rather see um a slightly like blurry, not great lighting, but I know that's a real person. I'm talking to a real person. Yeah, so it's to your advantage in this season to stand out and deliver what only you can deliver. Because in an age where, I mean, there's an account right now that has like hundreds of almost like I think half a million followers, and it's supposed to be this like amazing southern black grandma. I have seen several of my friends like following this account, they love it, sending me tips, you know. Um, the woman is an AI grandma. I saw my it it's very clear.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

I'll put it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

People can I mean it's clear, but people are out here like using the tips.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Wait, no, I was no, I actually was fooled by a Thai monk. I've seen him. Um and I'm not gonna lie, I still listen to him because he has the best tips and it makes me upset. And I'm going through the comments and no one's picking up that he's angry. No one knows. And it wasn't till I saw a candle, and the candles flickering the exact same pattern, like it's it was flickering the same way. And also, I was like, I've been to Thailand, like it doesn't look this perfect. It's actually like I love Thailand, it's my favorite countries, but it doesn't look this perfect, like it looks like a Disney movie. And I was like, wait, I felt betrayed. I was like, this monk, yeah, he's not real, and I mean you see her. Oh my god, here's a grandma.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

You see, it's the skin, it's the skin, it's also like a little bit of the line around her hands, like when she's waving or whatever. Like I feel like I can spot it right away, but that's is also part of my job, but it's going to get better, it's going to get better. And I mean, there's a realtor here in Chicago that is not real, and she has like, I want to say 400,000 followers. She goes out to restaurants and shows places, but they're all it's all AI constructed.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

I hate that fucking crazy. But um, that's how you're gonna stand out is by delivering something only you can deliver and and getting comfortable with being perceived. And, you know, Lucy Badouy talks about this all the time of like how the more you like water down yourself and your punchiness and the copy, you know, she just it's like you take away the thing that people are gonna have this emotional response to that the creators who can do that and find that balance of like putting out the content, it who cares if you recorded it in your car on the way, like, yes, of course, as an SMM and you know, marketing person, I can tell you, like, oh, we're gonna get great lighting, we're gonna do this, and it's gonna do that. But that's also what I'm paid for, you know. But if you are out here in the social trenches and trying to make it happen for yourself, trust me, doing what only you can do and showing up as a real person will will go so, so, so far.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

Yeah. And oh, I have so many things to say. Okay, I think with the whole like the perfectionism thing, that means that's probably happening in other parts of your life too. It's not just with content. And it's all the same thing. That the only answer to perfectionism is to do it messy, and to do it messy, it's like doing a cold plunge. Like you literally have to jump in the cold plunge until the next time you get in the cold plunge, it's not that cold. And then you do it again and it's not that cold. And next time your body's warmed up and it's not that cold. So it's the same with content, like post it shitty, and also you're I bet you right now you don't have that many followers, like it's okay. There's just like maybe two friends you're gonna see or 30 friends, but like they love you, it's fine, you know. What's the problem is actually when you go viral, the thing you want and you get roasted. So you actually don't want to go too too well at these videos. But I think you just have to do it messy and do it while you have such a support system because I'm sure, and if you're like, oh, my aunt follows me or that friend from high school, honestly. Block them, create a new account. Fuck them and block everybody, like just get them out of there, block them. And if they have a question, be like, I'm sorry, just I feel like I need to crave a space, whatever. The other thing I want to talk about is the A back going back to the AI thing. So um, my friend Dev Ree hosted a master class called Scaling with AI in my membership, cocktails and clothes, and she literally is in SF. She's the AI girl, like that's her bread and butter. And she was saying, Don't do your content, don't make content with AI. She was like saying that AI should help you with the all the bullshit of your business that you don't want to do, all the back-end stuff. But she's like, Don't you dare start to think that AI should be doing your content because then you lose the human touch, the thing you just talked about, like the what makes people buy. I've I've seen like certain people use AI that in my in my network, and I don't even like the video because I'm like, that's not you. I don't want to even contribute to that. I want to see you, and yeah, that's my friend. And I'm like, I'm not liking your AI video, that's literally not you. I saw you took a shortcut and I'm not gonna praise it.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Yeah. And it's not to say like AI doesn't have its place because, like, don't get me wrong, like when I put captions on a video, that is an AI. It listens to your video and puts in the words, and then I design what I want them to look like, right? Um, when I put a filter on to somebody's video and like color grade and stuff, those those are done by AI, right? Like if you want an auto or if you've saved it, right? I'm not saying it doesn't have its place. It's just that what I think is really interesting in I I actually just did a video talking about this, but like, you know, being online and creating attention used to be for a very select few. If let's go back to Mad Men, let's look at hot Don Draper, let's look at that daddy, that dastardly daddy, but still a daddy all the same. Like Don had like copy editors and artists and like a whole team, you know, a secretary, then him with his creative brain, you know, all of that. And it's just interesting that we're at a point, and it's beautiful because you know, with being online and having an online business and being able to use social media, so many more entrepreneurs are able to do that without the lift and the finances that it would have taken and the exclusivity. Like, imagine how many business owners didn't have $10,000 or $5,000 or $2,000 to even talk to Don Draper. Like it meant there was a select few that were able to be in, you know, use advertising. And so it's great that we're at this place where entrepreneurs have to stretch themselves and learn about this, especially in their solopreneur era. It's really good research for them, building their businesses. So when they do hire somebody, they're not taken for a ride, et cetera. But it's just not that easy. And if I went to you and talked about your specialty like that, right? Like if um, you know, I went to my colleague who creates courses and helps people launch them in two weeks or less, and I was like, well, I just use Chat GPT. She'd be like, There's probably a few things you're missing, babe, because I teach you how to market it, I teach you how to like fill the class, I teach you how to do X, Y, and Z. And some of it you just can't get from that. And I think we've like lost a little bit of respect for experience, um, sometimes in the name of speed. And I think we live in an age of a lot of information, but sometimes not a lot of discernment or taste. And that's what the fuck you're paying me for. Damn.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

I mean, yeah, there's nothing, there's only so much that it can do. And that's what I was saying, like with your brain, like with your creativity, like that's what you're paying for. Like, obviously, you still use AI to like make even your processes more efficient, but it can't grab your brain. Like, it can't actually take those creative ideas because that's what actually makes you human, like the creativity. It can shoot some ideas, but not like those cold stars.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

I would say it's like a scaffolding, you know what I'm saying? But like, yeah, you cannot just like I don't know, you can't microwave it. And um, I think if you're doing that as a business owner, like if you're in marketing and you're offering this and you're selling that product, like I I really think it's a little bit misleading because you're not really giving the client the specialty of your expertise. You can absolutely have a prompt and you can, you know, use it again as like a scaffolding to support you. But I think just selling something that they could probably figure out on their own from a chat GBT is isn't um isn't leading with the most integrity.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

No, no. Um, okay, I there's three other things I want to talk about. Two are questions from girls in the community, and one is like the visibility, like touch points. I thought that was so fascinating when you talked about that in your masterclass. Um, let's do the questions first. So the first one is from Alexis, who's a trademark lawyer for small businesses, which I'm gonna have her on because, Lord, I'm learning a lot about that. Her, y'all need to follow her. Her Instagram's at Life and Lemons Legal. She's we're literally DMing right now talking about trademark law. And I'm like getting my mind blown, and I I'm getting her on the podcast. But she's in a community. She's amazing. I love Texas.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

I'm like, think honestly, I gotta say for your community, like, shout out. I I keep saying it in stories, but I don't know how everyone you know is like a 50 out of 10. And it's like so dumb because like I'm talking about me and I'm also in there, but it's like so true. All these girlies are just like blowing my mind. You like need to be in Maria's community because it's just so freaking good. Every single one of them, I'm just like learning so so much and also just having the best time. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Well, that's why I've been yelling at about it on those podcasts because all the people they like on the podcast are in the community. Like, if you like Devrit, who talked about scaling with AI, if you like Jell, who talked about content, if you like Lara who also talked about content, like all these bitches are in the community. Like, you could imagine actually just becoming friends with these people. If they're a guest, they're probably in the community. Like, let's just break it down like that. Yeah, and if you want to hang out with them, then join the community. Yeah, I just feel like it's just and if you're listening to this, you probably are a vibe because you with podcasts specifically, you don't listen to hosts that you don't think you'd hang out with. So if you'll like me, then you'd like my friends. Come on in, y'all. Like, come on down, yeah. But, anyways, Alexis was a more recent rip member where I was like, This girl is awesome. Like, she's amazing. Okay, so her Instagram is at Life and Limons Legal. So she's kind of starting her content journey and she has a couple questions. I'm gonna figure out how to paraphrase. She's pretty much she's just trying to say, How do you create a meaningful content that isn't just a word salad of hooks and hot phrases about losing people? Like, she doesn't, she doesn't know what to cut out. It's like more of an editing question. Like, you I guess you only have so much time technically. Yeah, you probably have like how many seconds do you really have? And then what do you what do you keep in? You know, if and she's talking about like some pretty long link stuff, or talking about legal trademarks for entrepreneurs. So she's trying to figure out like what do you keep in? What do you keep out in such a short time period?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

My first thought is is she on the right app? Because it kind of sounds like she needs a podcast. Yeah, I kind of feel like she needs a podcast or a YouTube. Yeah. Um, because then she could let's say, let's say she shot a video and yapped for even 10 minutes, right? 15 minutes. Um, you are eating off of that content forever. Like you could do part one to 10, it's one minute edits, 30 to 60 seconds. I would say, like, I really try not to go above 90 seconds. There's definitely some creators that can do that, but for most of you guys with like talking heads and sharing your expertise and knowledge, um, unless it's like a more lifestyle y thing, like we're watching somebody reset their whole house and they're making beautiful coffees in the English countryside. Like, we're sticking around for three minutes for that, probably. Yep. Yeah, what like we want to be swept away. But if you are yapping at us for three minutes, it's I don't know, it can be a little bit tough for people to also that could have been like a 10-minute podcast that people actually would have listened to. Yeah, dove like literally happily dove right in. Like, I think sometimes you have to think about the medium. Like, if you're on your phone and you're scrolling, you can't do anything else. Like, you kind of have to sit there and watch the video. Like, if your screen time's out, let's say I'm doing dishes, the screen time's out. Now I have wet hands. Like, just think about it. Like your phone, give them 30, 60, 90 seconds max. 90 seconds max. Um, especially for a talking head, because that's a lot of heavy lift on you too. You got to put a lot of like little clicks and bubbles and edits and all of that, and nice little words floating across the screen. So they keep watching it. Um, so a short, punchy 30 seconds that changes their life. And then you're like, if you want to know more, get at me, or whatever it is, or follow for more one minute. I mean, it's it's you're gonna do a lot more value there. So I would say time is probably your number one constraint. Um, and then try not to make it about your ego. Like it's really interesting because you might be thinking, I really want to make sure I say this. But the point is a little bit of both, right? You're gonna say your point, you're gonna share your expertise, but make your client the hero. Make your audience member the hero. If you're yip-yapping and it's like, so what? But if you're really helping to solve a problem, get them to insight and you can do that in a concise way, it does a couple of things. One, if you're being a prospect for speaking, it shows that you can communicate an idea clearly, quickly, effectively, and you can keep a room really charged. People are looking for that. You know, two, this is your billboard, it's showcasing a preview of like what it's like working with you, your expertise. Um, and three, you must build a community. If you're looking to like transact with people and just grab a sale um or grab followers, but they don't engage with you, they don't learn from you, and they do not buy from you. There's just really no point. So make your community member the hero. I think that and time are the two probably biggest constraints.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Yeah, I like how you said the word preview, because it's like, okay, and that's something I have to remember. Like, we're not trying to say everything we can. We're gonna move them somewhere, you know, whether it's an email list or a podcast, like we're gonna move them to long form, but like it's a yeah, it's like a movie preview. Like they don't tell you the whole damn plot, like they shouldn't. Um just flashes. So try to find like the flashes of the what you're trying to say and move them somewhere else so that way you have that freedom to actually dive into these thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Like, yeah, I mean, the assumption is that anybody who's interested will be around for a while, you know, like a little bit. That's like the assumption. I mean, and think of it like a date. I know we're gonna talk about the touch points in a second, but like you don't like tell your whole life story on like a first date with somebody, you know what I mean? And um, even if you know someone for a really long time, the conversation is a give and a take, and it's a relationship, you just monologue at them, you know, for your whole relationship. So um I think take some of the pressure off. If you're gonna show up and be consistent and you're gonna post, you know, however often you're gonna be posting per week, that whole big idea will get out there. And honestly, it's an interesting exercise, as I said, you know, for speaking or for educating um for media, that you're able to create a compelling story, a compelling argument and keep them along for the ride. There are, of course, caveats to this and creators who can do 90, 200 second videos, you know, and longer. So you are gonna find those examples. But I think in the beginning, um, if you can try to capture it in 90 seconds or less, it's it's a nice place to be.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Yeah. Okay, let's talk about the touch points. You said 27 touch points for selling your offer, but up to 50 touch points for higher ticket. What?

SPEAKER_02 40:12

Yeah, there's a lot of contributing factors to that. Like, right, when we go back to Don Draper, it's like seven touch points, but again, like people were the people who are liquid enough to afford stuff like that. That's kind of where that rule of thumb sort of came from. But now it's 2026. We got a bazillion apps out here. Like you could be on Substack Reddit, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. Like, I'm not even naming all of the places that you could be. Um, and there's a lot of differences between them. You know, people often want to know, like, I was talking to somebody today about like medium versus Substack, and it's like, well, Substack's kind of trendy. And I'm like, man, the main difference between medium and Substack is that Substack will actually host your whole podcast and you can do written long form content on there. It will distribute your whole podcast. So if you want to use medium, you can put a podcast on Medium, yes, but it will not distribute it everywhere, right? So if I want more bang for my buck, I'm gonna go to Substack, right? So again, there's tons of different apps that you could be on. So there's a lot more noise, there's a lot, again, the trust recession, and there's just a lot more people, right? There's a lot more accessibility to visibility because most everyone that you know has a smartphone, and most everyone you know has a goal or an aspiration to maybe be on it. Um, and with that said, even with like as much as we think people are creating, I think it's something like 3% of users on Instagram actually create content. Yeah, so I know you might feel like, yeah, it's a lot of people consuming, right? Um, and so that's really where being in somebody's world 27 different ways, different times, is how they're going to end up considering you because of all of that. And then just remember, right, there is a trust recession because of again AI. We've talked about this a little bit, but AI or content that just everybody is putting out AI slop and all of that, they really do want to look to see, are you a real one? They want to vibe check you, right? Um, and they want to know it's a preview of working with you, of your personality. They know they're along for the ride to follow you, but to do business with you, they need to feel like they're a community member and that you're a part of their world, not just them being a follower of yours.

unknown 42:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

So when with touch points, does that mean like, are you saying might be on all the apps? Or are you just saying like repetition in the few apps that you're on?

SPEAKER_02 42:34

Yeah, I think it's for some people, it is right to be quote, everywhere. I do not think you have to be everywhere in order to be successful, but I think you have to be where your clients are. I think you have to be where the tastemakers and the decision makers are, right? So again, like if I am a um business consultant and I know that I want to land a larger corporate account, yeah, I'm probably yip-yapping here on Instagram and I'm linking and I'm connecting and I'm making um friends and I'm talking to people and sharing my content, but I'm probably also pivoting my approach and making sure that I'm using LinkedIn, I'm creating connections on there, I'm using the search function to, you know, get more people to connect with me so that they see my content. And I'm also probably stalking a few people that work at that company so they see my content because I want to build advocacy for myself with the gatekeeper and with the tastemakers who ultimately hold the keys to the resources that I am after money or you know, um, that platform and not that I'm transactional, but it's like that's how you want to make sure that you're um networking. And again, going back to like cold pitching, editors, decision makers, CEOs, sometimes they're getting like 10,000 submissions a week. You have to create a point of difference in order for you to distinguish yourself, and that's where being where your people are is just a smart play.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yeah. So overall, what I'm taking here from this is like the touch points are everything. Like you do, you have to be creating content. Like if you're in that stuck or if that perfectionism phase, like start small in whatever ways you can. But the like you said, good, great, and excellent. You know, no one's asking you to be excellent on content. No one's even asking you to be great, but you need to be good. You have to just show the fuck up because of this. We're right here, 50 plus touch points for higher ticket offers and coaches. That's who's listening. You just got to show up good and consistent, and then you can start to elevate to these some of these like higher touch topics we were talking about with the hooks and the edits and the but like show up.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

I think a good exercise that I'm like really obsessed with with some of my clients, um, or like people that I do coaching and consulting more so, not not really like my current clients, but people that I do like consulting for, um, you know, they're always like, Oh, but you know, like I just look at so and so's content and it's just like it's it's so, you know, and I just could never, you know, and they're like stuck in this loop. And I will literally make them scroll to the very beginning. I'm like, Yeah, who is it? Okay. So let's scroll to the very beginning. Well, Rachel, it's kind of annoying. Like, I have to wait for it to low up. My thumb hurts now. And it's like, yeah, it feels a little tedious, right? You know, and they're scrolling, scrolling. Sometimes it can take us 10 minutes or like 15 minutes. Like they'll this will be like their second session that they're complaining about, third session. And I just like make them start scrolling from the very beginning. And then finally, at some point in the session, they get to they start going, Oh, oh my God. She posted a rake, a vintage rake with necklaces on it. It's orange. Like, who would do? Oh, I see meals with paper plates. Like, she would never post a paper plate now. Like, oh, oh my gosh, this is her working in a hospital. Um, and that she's backlit with mascara, like off of her. It's like, come down to earth. So you had this whole tedious experience, right? Scrolling here, and then there was a really big payoff, right? I'm like, that's exactly where you are in the journey. You're in the tedium. And then eventually you're gonna scroll to a place where you start to feel like you're getting the payoff that you're looking for. But these people didn't just like appear. Now, some people do. There's caveats to everything. So please relax. If you're like a nitpick Nancy, like calm down. Nitpick Nancy. Like, shut up. But if you are with me and you get what I'm saying, like, you know, that's something that you have to do. I think everybody sometimes looks at where somebody's current place is and they forget that they had a beginning. Like, do yourself a favor, scroll back two, three, four years, five years in somebody's content, and you'll start to see like they had a beginning just like you, but they got better over time, they never gave up, and now they've earned the right to have this platform. Beautiful. Like, period. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Take that away, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

Um what was it the other day? We were like, okay, class dismissed girl. Class dismiss from LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

I'm like, okay, to end, I want to before we get into cocktail hour. Can you please tell everyone how they can connect with you? Like, and also like what if they want to do like a session with you or just before they jump full in, you know?

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yes, they need to hit me up at um, so you can find me at Chateau Marigold on Instagram. Um, you can also email me Rachel R A C H A E L at shateumarigold.com. But honestly, like we can just yip yap on IG. I love a little DM moment, love hanging out, and then we can set something up after that.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yes, yes. And then before we get into cocktail hour, let's talk about cocktails and clothes. I'm gonna hold you hostage real quick. So you're in my membership, cocktails and clothes. Actually, I would like to hear you describe it because I feel like I've been describing it, but how would you describe cocktails and clothes? The membership.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Cocktails and clothes is like it's like a really fun party I get to go to a couple of times a week, you know, in in different ways because sometimes I connect with somebody and then I get to be in my DMs and we talk, um, or we set up like little coffee chats to just connect with each other. And it's so fun. It's really immersive, I think, too, because you bring on a lot of guests that have expertise in different areas. So it feels like a fun social calendar. Like there's fun events, but I'm always getting something out of it. I think that's like the difference between your community and maybe other things or other events that people put on. You actually end up like wanting to hang out with everybody that's on. It's such a good and fun time. And honestly, I'm a busy person. I'm a toddler mom, like running my business the whole bit. It's refreshing to be able to like step back for a few minutes and to connect with people and just, I don't know, have such a good time. It's so fun. And I learn a lot, which is really important to me. Um, not that like social connections aren't fun, but it's like as a busy working person, you want to like make the most out of your time. And it's so cool to have a blast, like literally belly laugh, yip, yep. It's like I people I feel like I would want to get a drink with, but then I'm also just like in awe of how smart they are, and it feels really good to be in a room like that. I think it's just made me like want to level up. I think a hard part about being an entrepreneur, which is also a hard lesson that I learned, like going from the field in retail to then going to like corporate, it's kind of like a little bit lonely, you know. You honestly do need a community. I know everyone's gonna be like, community is like the clarity word to me because of chat GBT, you know. But you really do. You need a community because when you're practicing the muscle of being uncomfortable with uncertainty that entrepreneurship can sometimes bring, and being uncomfortable with just being uncomfortable, other people doing that and having it be their normal too really helps you to feel like so much more grounded. And then you have these opportunities to like share your expertise and what you're learning and how you're building and seeing other people find value in that. That kind of gives you the gas to like, you know, deal with the ups and downs and the lessons that come from being in business with yourself because it's wonderful and it's beautiful and there is a lot of freedom, but you also can scrape your knees or get kicked in the teeth sometimes, you know, with um being in business for yourself and it's picking yourself back up and applying those lessons and moving forward because you know you're building something that's bigger and greater than you've ever done before. Yeah. And you need to be able to borrow belief from other people. You're building something you've never seen. Maybe your family hasn't ever seen something like this before. And there are seasons where you're like, I'm on the mountaintop and it feels amazing. And then there's sometimes when you're in that valley and you need to borrow belief. And so having a lot of vibey ass, like-minded, cool, badass, very, very smart people around you is like, it's a 10 out of 10. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

The whole reason I brought all this up because like I don't know how to describe it. I'm struggling to describe this community because in the end, I think it comes down to the the woman in it. I don't know how to tell you enough that the women in here are not like your other community. Like they're fucking awesome. Yeah, I know it's like I just I just had to talk about because you're in it. Um, I just want to do a quick cocktail hour. It's tradition. We have to do cocktail hour. And I have, I know exactly what I want to talk about. Fuck business. I want to talk about Tiger Banks and America's Next Top Model documentary. I don't care when this episode's coming out. We're talking about it right now. Yeah. Did you watch it? Did you finish it?

SPEAKER_02 51:47

It's not good. I have not finished it, but I have caught up on all the yip yep. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

If you haven't watched that documentary, okay, first of all, I was tricked. I thought Netflix bought America's Next Top Model. So I was ready to watch America's Next Top Model. So then it starts, and I'm like, hey, what is this? And I was like, hey, what is this? Oh shit. This is like the roast of America's next top.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

What what I think is crazy is she produced it.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

I think why did she think this was a good idea?

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Yeah, I think she produced it.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Then how much else was cut out?

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Yeah, I think she thought they were gonna be like nice to her, but they kicked over like every rock they could possibly find, obviously. Like Miss J. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

She did she did Miss J so dirty. If you don't know, okay, Miss J had a stroke. Miss J was in a hospital for a year, I think a year and a half, couldn't walk, couldn't talk for a long time. Tyra Banks never reached out to him. Miss J built this woman. This Miss J told her how to walk. Yeah, and now he can't walk, literally cannot walk, and she does not fucking call or text him. Miss J.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Miss J answered it, was also so shady. Not yet. With the eyes over the glasses.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Oh my god. I just like that of all the stories. I don't know why that I think it's that stuck to me the most because I think friendship is what the my the thing I most value most in life. And to have someone, how could you treat a friend so wrong in the deepest worst part of their life?

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think that's what's like it's not like Miss J lost a job and Tyra never reached out. That would be fucked up. But your singular gift, not singular, I don't want to say that's the only gift, but I'm just saying, like, the thing that was your pat movement of the body, like the confidence, the I mean, the way that you could turn like waving your hand into like a whole basically like a ballet, you know what I mean? The sacheting, like I can't even walk that I, you know what I mean? I can't, I don't even wear heels anymore as a toddler mother. Cannot imagine like your whole life just being a beautiful movement, elegant, all of that, and then you're trapped in your body. Like, I feel like I know what it was like um doing fertility treatments, and I just wouldn't get pregnant. And I remember thinking, like, my body is betraying me. You know what I mean? Like, I cannot imagine like being cut off from yourself like that, and then like, no love from Tyra. That's crazy, and he built her career crazy, crazy.

SPEAKER_00 54:31

That's that's the story that stuck out to me. Besides the Shandy one, that the shandy one was so disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

I had to pause it because I was like, I don't think I can watch this girl get assaulted, or like honestly, it's right, they didn't care about anybody's dignity or anything. It was definitely, I mean, just nasty work.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Just in the fact that Ken Mock, whatever his stupid name is, he has no remorse. He was like, It's reality TV, it's yeah, yeah, it is reality TV, but like, come on, it's not that serious where you need to ruin someone's life over. Like, we'll be okay if we never saw that.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Oh, and that's the other thing. Tyra blamed the audience. Yes, I wanted more and more. Like her voice when she talks, I'm like, shut up. Like, you sound fucking unhinged. Like, what is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 55:20

Someone on bread was like, girl, we were 13, we didn't ask for this.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

We I honestly thought Tyra knew everything about being beautiful. Like, I grew up like I mean, that was a big deal to me. Tyra is black. I'm half black and Japanese, I live in Dallas. There's no there's I felt like nobody looked like me. I literally used to think me and my sister and my brother were the only three like big skids in the world because I only just saw like white people, or you know, didn't really see black girlies that uh Beyonce, like obviously, there's these stars, but Tyru was like a huge deal to me. And so when she is like over here saying, like, shave your head and eat grapes, I was or that like you're ashy, telling that girl she was so ashy that like calling her out like that, or the plus size model, because I've always been like curvy, and you know, even if I was like a size six, I always had like you know, major curves, and Tyra's like the girl was happened to be at America's next top model and just like was losing weight. I don't think it was intentional, I think she just was stressed, probably not eating very great, whatever. And Tyra's like, so I think you have a weight problem, you know. But then if somebody was skinny and was gaining weight, Tyra was also telling them that they had a problem too.

SPEAKER_00 56:43

So I don't know, like a lot of us girlies back then struggled with all kinds of like disordered eating or body dysmorphia working out, and I know many girlies do today, but her show totally contributed to that, and that was her whole point of building the show was to like allow the mixed girls, the black girls, the curvy girls, and then she, when they were that, they were they were like, you need to change, or you have Janice Dick going ham on these girls. I don't know. I listen, we're all human, so I understand like we have intentions and then we go back to our our fault, which is um, she was a model, she was in this world, so she I could see her sometimes going all the way back into that world and then forgetting to like, no, I'm trying to make a trailblazing thing. But then you have like 20 seasons, okay? It's not like you had one season, you fucked up, you have 20 seasons and you actually ended up morphing into a worse person and creating worse problems for these girls. And of course, there's Janice Dickinson, so I feel like Janice Dickinson made Tyra look really good, but when you take Janice Dickinson away, Tyra's faults and with the industry show it's not good, it's not good, and all they had to do was be like, we are so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Like there's episodes. I'm gonna another show from that time. Like, there's episodes. I love sex in the city. I don't care that Ann just like that was messy. I love it. Like, I feel about it the way you feel about like Mel Robbins. You're like, she can, you know, I love her. I don't care. Let yeah, that's why let them. Let them, but there's an episode where um there's just problematic stuff. And I remember recently watching like a season two, and the first episode, you know, Carrie's depressed because she's broken up with big and she hasn't been out or whatever, and the girls knock on the door to take her to a baseball game, and the first line of the episode is get your coat on, Anne Frank, we're going out. And it's like really Miranda.

unknown 58:50

Going on, Aunt Frank.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Really? Really, Michael Patrick King, you know, but so I get that there's like uh, you know, we're not as awake as we you know then as we were now. Like that was probably considered really witty at the time, and now it's like what a fucking disaster. Um, not now it is, but at the time that was like on HBO, it was like quote, acceptable. It's absolutely terrible. Um, and it doesn't compare, Carrie. Your little breakup with big, you know, it does not compare. But so yeah, I get it, Tyra. Like, she's like, the audience wanted, like, okay, but girl, it's 2026. Like, can you just say I'm sorry, sorry? That was awful. We owe you guys like a huge apology. Honestly, it would have made the documentary so it would have turned completely different.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

People wouldn't be roasting her if they've been like, damn, this is refreshing, you know. Good, good for Tyra. It's so crazy. This is like take this in your own life too. Like, the minute you say sorry, all the walls break down. But if you refuse to say sorry for something, it only lights like water on fire, you know. I don't know what the word the term for that is, but you know what I'm talking about. Well, not water on fire, but flame, gasoline, something.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

Whatever the fuck, you know what I'm talking about, y'all. Whatever it takes a flamethrower to my empathy. Like, you don't want to say sorry. I'm like, okay, fine. I'm not sorry either, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

I just don't know what the purpose of that doc was. Like, I okay, she was like, everyone at 2020 was talking about us, and then no one talked about you again for like ever again. Yeah, and if that's if that's just a PR stunt, because guess what? We are talking about you. We are, but we not how you want though, careful what you wish for.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Yeah, she's literally like I mean, the I don't know, just the look in her eyes, like the it's just like vapid narcissism in a trench coat. Like, why are you wearing a beautiful wig? I will say beautiful wig. I really nice wig.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:50

Yeah, yeah. I just yeah, I think it was just like the lack of empathy. And listen, we don't need to like I love the Jays and Nigel, but like they were a part of it too.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

I know Nigel, I yeah, just say sorry, guys. The Jays, okay. The other day, Jay Manual. Um, I saw Kelly Catrone come out of the woodwork. I love Kelly Catrone. I don't care that she's like a huge bitch, like people think that she is. I I'm not saying she is, she's known for being like brazen, okay. And people people sometimes described her as that. Kelly, if you're listening, I love your book. If you have to cry, go outside. I read it the whole time in New York, and I actually took that advice a lot because I did cry. Um but yeah, she wrote that um like the same thing that we're saying about like Miss J and Um Tyra. She's saying the same thing about um Jay Manual that Tyra built him and that he was like working, I think at a restaurant, like he used to serve her food. Like he did nothing, or he was like a I forget the job that she said, and now I'm gonna have to look it up, but um, yeah, literally Kelly Catron was like he was nothing, and now he's bad mouthing Tyra. Like he should be so grateful.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

No, I don't agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

Yeah, she says that he's incredibly rude. Okay, yeah, it was on her insta, it was I don't know where she it's a comment she posted, but side note Jay never even worked in the fashion industry. He worked at a Mac I said he worked at a restaurant and served her food. He didn't, he worked at a Mac makeup counter in Toronto. Tyra boosted him, and how did he repay her here? By writing a novel about her and the show, which no one bought. Now he's trying to become relevant out there by trashing her again. Maybe he will get a deal as a spokesperson for a spray tanning or filler. He was so incredibly rude. Um, he was so incredibly rude to me on the first day of the show. He came up to me and said, Welcome to the show. You're in the ejector seat, meaning anyone who sat in that seat, Andre and all these people were fired. But oddly enough, he was the one who was fired at the end of that season.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Okay, I don't know. I still don't, I mean, making a book about it, okay, whatever, but who cares if someone like made you, they still like disrespected you. Like he's allowed to leave the show, and she made she made him stay on and like was so rude those like what like four other seasons. It was like years, yeah. I don't know, I don't know. I don't agree with that. That comes down to that whole you owe me situation where like you all always owe me, and that's not a friendship. And I don't I don't agree with that, Kelly.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

I like that. I like I like what you're saying there. I I think you're right because like people I I think it is a different thing. Like with Miss J, it's like show some respect.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Like this is a serious tragedy that happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

Miss Jay had a tragedy in their life. Like, I I remember when my dad died, um it was sudden and the whole bit, but there were there were even people that I had like unfortunately had to like separate from like the job that I was in. Like I was their boss, and you know, that was part of my role, right? And um, it's of course ended friendships and relationships, but they even messaged me on like did and we're like, we heard about your dad, we are so sorry. Like, imagine having to get fired, you know, and whatever you think about me, I'm the villain in your story, but still having a heart to be like, fuck, I know Rachel is absolutely going through it. Like, I know her world is a disaster. You can't even text him, Tyra. You can't send one petal of a flower. One petal of a flower, like nothing, you can't send a fucking edible arrangement, nothing.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

She reminds me of a friend I'm not friends with anymore who is actually the most deeply caring person, but she doesn't know how to be vulnerable. So instead of being vulnerable, she builds more and more walls. So she was probably so fucking hurt that the Jays left or that she had to fire or actually fire them. What the fuck, anyways? I feel like she just can't be vulnerable, like she can't show that. So she just is like walls, walls, walls, walls, walls. Don't talk to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:09

You know what somebody said to me once? Because I was talking about like a um anyway, whatever. I was talking about something and um in a business thing, and I was like trying to, you know, whatever. I was trying to find a way to describe like this this person, and um, I was like, yeah, and they're very, very nice and like so loving. And um my coach was like, I'm gonna stop you right there. Um, are they kind and loving or do they have those tendencies? And are they really this kind of a person? That's just like what that reminded me of right now. When you were like talking about this girl who you were used to be friends with, it's like, is she really a loving person? And I get that hurt people, hurt people, blah, blah, blah. I've had a shit ton of therapy. Don't fucking come for me. Um, you know, I have empathy, ooh-but um, yeah, is she really? Or, you know, does she just have those tendencies? And then who she really is is like oh little Miss Walls, little little Miss Bob Barbara the builder.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

Barbara the builder.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:10

I'm an interesting perspective. I says it comes down to how I want to see a person, and I I would like to think that they're more loving than hate, but it could be the other way around with Tyra and my friend. Because they they actually have very similar personalities. Um, so I was like, I bet if you put her in a trench coat and a wig, she wouldn't be able to apologize either.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

I don't know. I don't know this girl. I don't know, but oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

Well, I probably should wrap this up because I feel like I can't have a two-hour podcast. Um, but um go watch the American Zeckop Mall documentary. If anything, go fucking follow Rachel's y'all can yap.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:47

Yeah, I love a little DM yap. I want to talk to you and know what you think about all the things. And yeah, I I love the hot goss for the celebs too. So, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

Yeah, put us in a group chat, y'all, if y'all want to talk about this job and send me a meme. Okay, wow. This is so funny. I think I recorded this episode right after the Super Bowl. So this is like after Bad Bunny did the Super Bowl. This is right when America's Next Cup models documentary came out. And everyone was talking about it. So I'm sure if you're listening to this, you're like, God, this is old fucking news. But like for me, in this moment when we recorded this, the documentary just dropped and I had to talk about it. Because I am America's next top model slut. I wanted to be on that show, but I was too short, too curvy. R.I.P. And I probably would have come back with trauma. So I'm actually glad I didn't. But that's why if you were listening to this, you're like, why the fuck are they talking about this documentary? It's because I recorded this back in like January. And I was like, oh shit, I haven't posted this. So sorry, Rachel. Um, yeah, DM me if you also love America's Next Step Model and if you wanted to be on that as a kid, because I did, and I would love to yap about it with you. Okay, guys, I'm gonna let you have the rest of your day back. Again, if you're obsessed with Rachel just like I am, she's literally in my community, cocktails and clothes. Every fucking guest you've listened to on this podcast is in my community. They're a fucking vibe. And I know you are a vibe if you're listening to this. So if you want to come scale your business with other bad bitches and be in the only community that's actually active, actually not pitchy, and actually the biggest hype girl group you've ever met who are landing each other jobs, get your ass in there. DM me on Instagram. My Instagram's at your girlmedia, and hopefully you can get in while there's still a sale going on. It's at $77 a month instead of 150, 16 spots left. Then we're closing the doors because I don't want this to be a massive community. All right, enough of that. As I always like to say, you're a bad bitch, and I will see you next time.