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Really Bad Influence

May 20, 2026 • Al Tessier • Season 1 • Episode 14

0:00 | 1:21:13

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Today I’m sitting down with author, public speaker, and host of the podcast “Age Blind” Nancy Shenker. We’re going to have an in depth discussion about how influencers are dominating social media and flooding the internet. How this new form of supposed entertainment is truly not as influential as they may think, and what it means for the next generation and the new era of entertainment. Chatterbox is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and YouTube @Chatterbox-94. Don’t forget to check us out on IG @atkmedia_ and listen in on Nancy’s podcast “Age Blind”. #chatterbox #influnencers #socialmedia #podcasts

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SPEAKER_53 0:00

A critically acclaimed author and the master of horror, Stephen King, once said, We never know which lives we influence, or when, or why. Excellent statement. Good question. Well, let me explain a thing or two about influencing. It's not what you think it is. You are not truly going to actually influence someone. You are not always gonna change their life. Sometimes you will, and in other instances it's gonna backfire and change your life, and not for the better, I might add. Because the reality is this the world of social media, the world of internet exposure can be toxic, it can be poison, it can be an essence of death. Like a cesspool. Today, on this episode of Chairbox, we are going to be talking about not just influencing, but influencers in general. The new craze, the latest form of entertainment that has consumed the internet, that is the top dog on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you name it. So you want to be influenced by me? Well, I'm no influencer, but hopefully I can give you a bit of uh psychological and maybe therapeutic uh intel on what influencing really is and how it's impacting society, how it's changed entertainment. So you know what? Let's get started. Hey folks, how y'all doing? I'm Al Tesssier. Welcome to another episode of Shatterbox. Joining me today is author, host of the podcast Age is Blind, uh, public speaker and major influence for the betterment of society and those that uh live in this realm, Nancy Shankar. Nancy, great to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_39 1:53

Thank you so much. I love your description. The podcast is actually age blind, um, but age is blind, and I will be turning 70 in February, and I'm just getting started because I finally have the wisdom, the experience, the chops, the energy to really channel my old hippie chick vibe and take a look at what's going on in our world today and do my small part to change to flip the script, as they say.

SPEAKER_53 2:23

Just remember what Michelle Yo said when she won an Academy Award. Nobody is ever uh out of their prime. I believe that's her that was her words. No shame. Meaning it doesn't matter how old you are, you will have your time will come. Sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's pure luck. I mean, one of the best examples, in my opinion, would be uh uh uh oh god, I can't remember his name. Uh uh the actor from the naked gun movies.

SPEAKER_32 2:56

Oh, yeah, Leslie Nielsen.

SPEAKER_53 2:58

Leslie Nielsen. Leslie Nielsen didn't get his big hit until he was like 50-something in the movie Airplane, and next thing you know, he's a comedy icon for the remainder of his career.

SPEAKER_39 3:08

Or Grandma Moses didn't start painting until her later years, and I've been keeping a running list of people who either were rejected multiple times, and then we were just talking about mad men, Matthew Weiner. How many networks rejected that script before he actually was able to get green lit? So um, it's never too late. My mother lived to 95, my grandmother lived to 99, I come from a long line of badass women, I've been mastering AI, I am just getting started.

SPEAKER_53 3:43

Yeah. Yeah, no, trust me. And that's that's another thing. Definitely a story for another day. Because, like, if you hear the stories about people who I think a lot of them look at it as definitely pure luck. Stephen King got rejected, I think, by like 55 publishers before they gave him the thumbs up for Carrie, and whoever those people are who rejected them, they're probably deceased now, uh, probably lived the rest of their life with a level of regret based on his success.

SPEAKER_39 4:10

Oh, absolutely. As a woman, you know, who's lived through a lot of shit since I got out of college in 1977, I was Peggy Olsen for all intents and purposes. Um, I am really kind of obsessed in a good way with women who are making change later in life. Um, because this is the first generation of women who had economic independence and um the balls to say, no, I don't like what's going on in the world. I'm gonna make change. And if women like me are not leading the charge, then who is? Like it pains me. And I know we're gonna be talking about influencers, but just look at the sheer number of young women who are choosing OnlyFans as a career because they think the only thing that they have to market are their breasts and their bodies. Where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like what kind of world are we living in where that is a viable career path for young women? Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths. I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm gonna take off my clothes and go live in the bob house.

SPEAKER_53 5:22

Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too because you they get like they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth, or and they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper, I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path. Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame?

SPEAKER_39 6:01

I mean, not to be judgmental, you know, as I say you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular. And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes? To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school? And they're like, No, why would why would I do that? And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina. Can I say vagina on your podcast?

SPEAKER_53 6:48

I I have zero no filter whatsoever.

SPEAKER_39 6:50

Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table.

SPEAKER_53 6:56

So okay then. Yeah, no, I have no filter. Uh, you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeffin don't like swear.

SPEAKER_39 7:10

So no, I'm not a good to it, it's potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York. I have no filter. A a well-placed F-bomb never hurts.

SPEAKER_53 7:19

Yes, yeah, yeah. And so here's the thing about uh influencers, like I mean, I I gotta say the name itself is rather almost new to me, and I'm 31 years old, for Cripe's sake. Uh says a little bit about how out of touch certain cultural things uh for me, but it it kind of aggravates me a bit when people like say like their career path, oh, I'm an influencer and stuff like that. Oh, I've got like two million likes on YouTube, or I am going, I am a TikTok star, as you said earlier. I'm like, okay, but what kind of influence are you actually having on the world, on society? How are you contributing?

SPEAKER_39 8:11

Yeah, and here are some fun facts. 75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is $15,000 a year. That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%. You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues. So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl. That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs. There is no question about it. You will get a lot of awareness and exposure. But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product? So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game. Because likes are not in and of themselves currency. They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that. And I rebranded this year, um I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF, and NancyAF.com. And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them. It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media. So there's an end game. It's not just about being popular. And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid. I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny. And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old. Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the popular kids. I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school. We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won the most popular badge at the school dance.

SPEAKER_53 10:49

Yeah. Decent number of the popular kids I went to school with uh ended up uh having kids by the age of 21. And well, uh let's just say they look on it with the level of both regret but of joy, but also regret. One girl, she uh took her 10 years just to get an associate's degree.

SPEAKER_39 11:12

Yeah, no, I I get it. I mean, and that's one of the things that I really do love about aging, and we're living in a culture where aging is seen as a negative, and young women are pumping their faces full of Botox and filler and doing all kinds of weird things to their bodies because of their fear of aging. And I can say with 100% certainty that I am a much better person now at 69 than I was at 19 or 29 or 39 or 49 or 59, because I have financial independence, wisdom, freedom, like all the stuff that you don't have when you're young and perspective.

SPEAKER_53 11:56

Yeah. The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything, you're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it. And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount. Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego. They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is. I'm like, it's an ego fest. You're getting high off of your own narcissism.

SPEAKER_39 12:33

Yeah, best seller on Amazon. Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm? Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online. I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful. I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance. And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money? Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl, and then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product, and I never endorse anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it. Will that change over the next five, 10 years? Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all-state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out. And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money. Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but they're agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote. Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product. You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel. That to me is not selling out. But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky. Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it? Uh I don't I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_53 14:35

I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that. But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it. He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on. They're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money. Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing.

SPEAKER_39 15:00

A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds. And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials. So um I think it's a genius idea. It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok person who's got a million followers and doesn't care. In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards. And people are like, oh, she's just being real and genuine. I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand. Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup. I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it. But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar. And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air. You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now? Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer. And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence.

SPEAKER_53 16:41

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think one of the best like uh examples of, I guess we might say really the toxicity of influencing is the story of uh Piper Raquel, who was like a YouTube sensation and stuff like that. Now she's an OnlyFans stripper.

SPEAKER_39 16:58

Yeah, and if you look at the suicide rate among social media stars, it's actually pretty shocking because it's no different from, you know, traditional Hollywood celebrities who all of a sudden lost their luster. Um, you know, and I again that's one of the advantages and curses of being old. Like I remember people who were very hot in the day. You know, there was one SNL actor, and I was watching Law and Order SVU. Not that that's a bad gig, but he was like doing a Frank Sinatra impersonation at a nursing home, and I was like furiously Googling, going, Who is that? Because you look so familiar. But yeah, I mean, there is nothing new in this world, which is the reality. The only thing that's changed is the media, but the principles of media are truly timeless.

SPEAKER_53 17:50

I mean, looking started born, like this is the fourth time they've made it.

SPEAKER_39 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_53 17:56

Which blows my mind and also disappoints me because it's another example of something that I've harped on uh tirelessly to other filmmakers, and also on my podcast is the idea, the the clear fact that Hollywood has officially run out of ideas. They have no other option at this point but to recycle stuff from the past, uh, regardless of how many times it was made. I'm like three times. This dates back to the era of Judy Garland, for Cripe's sake.

SPEAKER_39 18:25

I believe she was before that. There was there was a version of a Star is Born before the Judy Garland version, which I didn't realize. But I like that movie, and I did like the Bradley Cooper Lady Gaga version of it because I thought it, but you know, I I think a a lot of younger people think that they invented this stuff as opposed to looking at the legacy. Like I just read um one of the most popular Christmas movies. Um The Angels.

SPEAKER_53 19:01

It's a wonderful life. That's my favorite Christmas movie. I cry at the end of it every time I watch it. And I've watched it so many times.

SPEAKER_39 19:09

So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story. And as a movie, it flopped. Same with Wizard of Oz. Was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out. So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day. Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now?

SPEAKER_53 19:49

Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now. They you want it to be immortal or or like eat yeah, or just endless. Some people don't.

SPEAKER_39 20:01

Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop house girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives. And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy.

SPEAKER_45 20:17

Yeah, yeah. I definitely agree with you.

SPEAKER_39 20:19

Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping.

SPEAKER_53 20:28

And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them. Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country where all that's really left. Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege. They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad. Yeah, they're giving us.

SPEAKER_39 21:09

I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother. Yeah. And as somebody who is truly age blind and doesn't like categorizing categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting. And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erendlip up on the refrigerator. I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives. You know, they're my two year old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one. They limit their kids' screen time. So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the res, dare I say, responsibility to create a next generation of doers. And thinkers. So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created. It's not something you're born with. And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents would go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter.

SPEAKER_53 22:30

Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it. That is where the toxicity really lies. Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, what is this? Oh my God, I'm so intrigued. And they just, I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft. He does it because he still likes movie making. He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous. And he's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_39 23:01

Yeah. But again, you can't vilify, I mean, you can do whatever you want, but like vilifying an entire generation is just not fair because otherwise, you could do the same thing to me and say 69-year-old women who live in Arizona just want to play pickleball and golf. I am proof positive that that is not the case. So, you know, that is my holiday wish for 2026. And I do think AI will help with that because AI looks for the commonalities. It doesn't care about your demographic, it cares about your behaviors. You like movies, I like movies. You like horror movies, I like horror movies. You and I have the exact same view of influencers, and that is what we should be focusing on, the things that bring us together as opposed to the things that are perceived as being generational. And yes, there is a generational influence, that's always been the case, but that would be like people back in the 1960s and 70s when I grew up saying, you know, all girls with long crazy hair who wear halter tops are hippie, stupid hippie slots. Whereas I was in the top 10% of my graduating class and went on to do great things. So I think we're living in a world that needs to stop putting people in boxes of perception and really get to know people as individuals.

SPEAKER_53 24:29

So yeah, I agree. And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in. Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch? And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube. Like it, and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction. Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know. If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff. Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially from actually.

SPEAKER_39 25:46

Putting down the small screen. I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big, well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure. But I think that everybody has an obligation. I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die. But I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F-bomb, put down the fucking foam and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans.

SPEAKER_53 26:31

Yeah. I've come learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know, like through work and stuff. I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be. Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from. That's what influences them, is social media in general. They're not it kind of and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not.

SPEAKER_39 27:24

Yeah, and it didn't start out that way. I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults. And back then, it was exactly what you're saying. It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn. It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections. So I never knew it at the beginning. That was all it really was to me. And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star. And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition. And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth. I was a director and a prop master and a writer. Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences. But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers. But then when I say to them, well, who are your fans? they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality. So I will sometimes call myself a coinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality.

SPEAKER_53 29:13

Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is it in that same documentary, Child Star. I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember. Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies. Like, as you said, like who are your followers? Well, I don't really know. They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber. And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there. And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with, I think, like people like Leo DiCaprio. He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly.

SPEAKER_39 30:08

Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it. Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled. Um, I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting. They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going. But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive. Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate. There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling. And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall. And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together. Where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall? Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouth, has a is a bigger dick swinger. Like this doesn't belong on my page. I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate. And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views. If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam.

SPEAKER_53 31:56

Yeah, I mean, I I I guess I might have learned the hard way. Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media. Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash. I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back. That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MA breeding ground, uh kind of just shit fest. That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become.

SPEAKER_39 32:38

You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up. I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup. And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing. And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney. And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives. And my podcast producer was livid. He's like, Why did you remove that post? And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face. Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now. You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic. We're not talking about our faces. Like, have we have we completely lost our minds? So, um, yeah, great topic. I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be? If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks? Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life. I would choose the latter over the former any day.

SPEAKER_53 34:20

Yeah, yeah. Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast. I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that. I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers. Yeah, and everybody who's really there's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply. It's called A Good Person. I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it. It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone, she's like, You don't like it? She's who did the who made you do this? She's like an influencer. She influenced me. And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are.

SPEAKER_39 35:33

But it is totally pervasive. And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product that's blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me. Um but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to. It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV. And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio going all the way up to The Apprentice, and it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be.

SPEAKER_53 36:27

Yeah, yeah. It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air. It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it stuck there. And I'm not saying we need to get rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it.

SPEAKER_39 37:01

Yeah, I mean, Australia has the right idea where they set age limits on social media because, and again, it comes down to good parenting. I know that sounds very as a good way to wrap things up, is to say, as a grandmother of four young children and a mother of two, I am now witnessing firsthand in a good way what parents can do if they want to raise their children to be good people and people who can function in the analog world and not just on the digital planet. So if anything, I'm spent I'm the one who's spending too much time in the digital world. And after we hang up, I'm going to go out, beautiful sunny day in Arizona. I'm gonna put down my phone and I'm gonna enjoy humans as opposed to technology.

SPEAKER_53 37:54

Yeah. Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain. I'm not Gene Kelly.

SPEAKER_39 38:03

Shoot your next movie here in Arizona. It's lovely and uh possibly.

SPEAKER_53 38:09

Uh what is it? One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it. He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great. Uh so makes a that's one thing. Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry. Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry. We have to work hard to get where we want to be. And a lot of it does depend on luck. When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way. You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Bolin said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies. I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial. But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone.

SPEAKER_39 39:29

Love that, love that. That is a great, great closing, closing concept. Love that.

SPEAKER_53 39:36

Yes, yeah. Yes. And uh, for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show. You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from. Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind. Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons. And also, like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more. Look at things from a whole new angle.

SPEAKER_39 40:15

And you could also find me at nancyaf.com. That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore. And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content. And as I said, we all have a day job. My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems. Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years. Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time. And my tagline is Bright and Timeless Marketing, and I am truly timeless. And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media. What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space, and that will all shake out in the end.

SPEAKER_53 41:12

Yes, I totally agree. Well, folks, till next time, stay high in life. Out. Hey folks, how y'all doing? I'm El Tessier. Welcome to another episode of Shadow Box. Joining me today is author, host of the podcast Age is Blind, uh, public speaker, and major influence for the betterment of society and those that uh live in this realm, Nancy Shankar. Nancy, great to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_39 41:41

SPEAKER_53 42:11

Just remember what Michelle Yeo said when she won an Academy Award. Nobody is ever uh out of their prime. I believe that's her that was her words.

SPEAKER_25 42:19

No shame.

SPEAKER_53 42:20

Meaning it doesn't matter how old you are, you will have your time will come. Sometimes it's unexpected, sometimes it's pure luck. I mean, one of the best examples, in my opinion, would be uh uh uh oh god, I can't remember his name. Uh uh the actor from the naked gun movies.

SPEAKER_32 42:43

Oh, yeah, Leslie Nielsen.

SPEAKER_53 42:45

Leslie Nielsen. Leslie Nielsen didn't get his big hit until he was like 50-something in the movie Airplane, and next thing you know, he's a comedy icon for the remainder of his career.

SPEAKER_39 42:55

Or Grandma Moses didn't start painting until her later years. And I've been keeping a running list of people who either were rejected multiple times, and then we were just talking about Mad Men, Matthew Weiner. How many networks rejected that script before he actually was able to get green lit? So um, it's never too late. My mother lived to 95, my grandmother lived to 99, I come from a long line of badass women, I've been mastering AI. I am just getting started.

SPEAKER_53 43:30

Yeah. Yeah, no, trust me. And that's that's another thing, definitely a story for another day. Cause like if you hear the stories about people who I think a lot of them look at it as definitely pure luck. Stephen King got rejected, I think, by like 55 publishers before they gave him the thumbs up for Carrie. And whoever those people are who rejected them, they're probably deceased now, uh, probably lived the rest of their life with a level of regret based on his success.

SPEAKER_39 43:57

Oh, absolutely. It's a woman, you know, who's Lived through a lot of shit since I got out of college in 1977. I was Peggy Olsen for all intents and purposes. I am really kind of obsessed in a good way with women who are making change later in life. Because this is the first generation of women who had economic independence and the balls to say, no, I don't like what's going on in the world. I'm going to make change. And if women like me are not leading the charge, then who is? Like it pains me. And I know we're going to be talking about influencers, but just look at the sheer number of young women who are choosing OnlyFans as a career because they think the only thing that they have to market are their breasts and their bodies. Where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like what kind of world are we living in where that is a viable career path for young women? Thank God my daughters have chosen different career paths. I don't know what I would do if I had an 18-year-old daughter who said, I'm going to take off my clothes and go live in the Bob House.

SPEAKER_53 45:09

Yeah, like and those people consider themselves influencers too. Because they get non-stop like ratings and stuff on like on various social media platforms and so on and so forth. And they paint themselves out to be uh almost like goddesses when in reality I uh I think the only way to say it is they it screams like I'm a professional stripper. I have chosen a new age form of prostitution as my career path. Yeah, it's have you no have you no shame?

SPEAKER_39 45:48

I mean, not to be judgmental, you know. As I say, you do you boo, but it's really more the pick me culture that people, and this is like a good segue into the whole definition of influence, is just because you're popular. And I've been involved in social media since 2005, and I used to have conversations with clients because I do have a marketing company, and they would say, Should I buy likes? To which I would always respond, Did you sleep with everybody on your football team in high school? And they're like, No, why would why would I do that? And I said, Because you would become instantly popular, but that didn't mean, doesn't mean that you actually have substance or something to offer the world other than a vagina. Can I say vagina on your podcast?

SPEAKER_53 46:35

I I have zero no filter whatsoever.

SPEAKER_39 46:37

Although I have been a gynecologist, so I grew up talking about vaginas at the dinner table.

SPEAKER_53 46:43

So okay then. Yeah, no, I have no filter. Uh you'll hear a lot of cursing out of my mouth, but I have been told uh by other like uh podcasters and guests I've had cut back on the F and Jeff and don't like swear.

SPEAKER_39 46:57

So no, I'm not a gratuitous potty mouth, but you know, I'm from New York. I have no filter. A well-placed F-bomb never hurts.

SPEAKER_53 47:06

SPEAKER_39 47:58

Yeah, and here are some fun facts. 75% of high school kids say they want to be influencers when they grow up, which is just ridiculous, which segues into the second fact that the average salary for influencers is $15,000 a year. That's the average, which means some people are making less and some people are making more, but only 1%. You know, you talk about the one percenters of the very rich, it's only 1% of digital influencers or whatever you want to call them ever really make it to the big leagues. So having worked in marketing most of my career, um, I often equate it to the Super Bowl. That if you're a big brand and you advertise on the Super Bowl, you will get a lot of eyeballs. There is no question about it. You will get a lot of awareness and exposure. But how many of those people will actually go to the store or go online and buy your product? So if you are going to be a product as a human, you really do have to think about what is your end game. Because likes are not in and of themselves currency. They can be parlayed into currency, but you still need a strategic plan of how you're going to do that. And I rebranded this year, um, I created a personal brand for myself, Nancy AF and NancyAF.com. And my priority is not big numbers of eyeballs and earballs, as I call them. It's the right eyeballs and earballs that will ultimately result in paid speaking engagements, possibly a paid role on a TV show where I'm dispensing relevant information, getting hired by clients to do their social media, specifically AI-generated social media. So there's an end game. It's not just about being popular. And I think I'm able to have that view because I was never the popular kid. I was the chubby, weird, geeky girl who people knew as being nice and funny. And I would take nice and funny any day over popular now that I'm 69 years old. Because I've been on this planet for a long time and I see what happens to the popular kids. I'm still friends with some of the popular kids from my elementary school. We geeks are doing way better financially and psychologically than the kid who won the most popular badge at the school dance.

SPEAKER_53 50:37

SPEAKER_39 51:00

SPEAKER_53 51:43

Yeah. The one of the reasons one of the things that I look at with influencing that I uh kind of feeds in, like to the whole idea of like you're not really marketing anything. You're not really uh you're not making any revenue or income from it. And if you are, it's a pretty mundane uh amount. Is I feel that it's just people getting high on ego. They see these numbers and they're like, oh my god, I am number one, I am the most awesome person there is. I'm like, it's an ego fest. You're getting high off of your own narcissism.

SPEAKER_39 52:21

Yeah, best seller on Amazon. Okay, did you just get a movie deal or a book deal, or did you just figure out how to fool the algorithm? Um, it really is kind of sad, and it is a false sense of popularity and fame, which is why I really make it a point of spending a good chunk of every day offline rather than online. I have dual citizenship in the analog and digital world because I do find that if I spend too much time watching and listening to these people, and she's been wildly successful. I don't ever shit talk other women entrepreneurs, but Mel, I just listened to a Mel Robbins podcast yesterday, and before the podcast conversation started, she did commercials and she read a commercial for insurance. And I'm like, ooh, like would I ever do that just to make money? Like, what because what happens is when you get to that volume of followers, you become the Super Bowl. And then people say, I'd like you to endorse this product. And I never endorse anything unless I've used the product myself and I like it. Will that change over the next five, 10 years? Maybe, but you probably would not hear my voice saying, I love all state insurance, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because to me that is selling out. And, you know, I do think that shilling for products is a viable way to make money. Even the A-list celebrities will do it, but their agents and they are selective in terms of what they will market and promote. Like George Clooney, Nespresso, great product. You know, I drink Nespresso coffee when I travel. That to me is not selling out. But yeah, when you start like talking about the virtues of insurance, like that gets a little icky. Like, if they paid me a lot of money, would I do it? Uh I don't I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_53 54:22

I mean, you got Kevin Hart doing like the whole DraftKings sports book and stuff like that. But you can tell that he's got a certain level of enthusiasm and positive energy towards it. He's not doing it just because his agents signed him on and they're like, oh, they're gonna pay you like a ton of money. Uh no, you can tell that there's a certain level of uh selectivity and uh precise decision making when it comes to the whole marketing thing.

SPEAKER_39 54:47

A good friend of mine, Emily Steele, launched a business called um Hummingbirds. And it's a genius concept because what they do is they find people who are already raving fans of products and they compensate them with product to give their like genuine testimonials. So um I think it's a genius idea. It's turning the influencer model on its head and saying rather than finding some TikTok in person who's got a million followers and doesn't care. In fact, I had an intern once who was promoting Dunkin' Donuts, and in one of her videos, she was holding the cup with the logo backwards. And people were like, oh, she's just being real and genuine. I'm like, if I were the Dunkin' Donuts CMO, I would fire her on the spot because that is your brand. Like, she doesn't even know enough to turn the cup. I even, at 69 years old, I even know how to switch a video around or make sure that a product looks good when you're dancing around with it. But that is one of the problems with influencer marketing, is you have a lot of people who will do anything just for the dollar. And then you and I were talking about this earlier before we went on air. You could be young, you could be hot, you could be good to look at, but where are you going to be 10 or 15 years from now? Um, and you know, I as women get older, they're like, oh, well, then I'll just become a mom fluencer, or then I'll just become a grandfluencer. And it's like, no, you have to like have some substance first, and then you will never age out of the sphere of influence.

SPEAKER_53 56:28

SPEAKER_39 56:45

SPEAKER_53 57:37

I mean, look at started porn, like this is the fourth time they've made it.

SPEAKER_39 57:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_53 57:44

SPEAKER_39 58:13

SPEAKER_53 58:44

Um The Angel Life. That's my favorite Christmas movie. I cry at the end of it every time I watch it. And I've watched it so many times.

SPEAKER_39 58:56

So he published it as a greeting card, and then a producer saw it and said, Oh my god, this is a great story. And as a movie, it flopped. Same with Wizard of Oz. It was not a Hollywood hit when it first came out. So I urge any storyteller, filmmaker, writer to look back at the past and see how people in the 1930s, 1940s were getting greenlit and how their stuff is still alive and well to this day. Like, do you want to be a one-hit win wonder, or do you want people to still be watching you 30, 50 years from now?

SPEAKER_53 59:36

Clearly, you want people to be watching you like 70 years from now. They you want it to be immortal or or like eat, yeah, or just endless. Some people don't.

SPEAKER_39 59:48

Some people want to just the the OnlyFans Bop House Girls, they just want to cash out, invest their money, and not work again for the rest of their lives. And again, as I like to say, you do you boo, but if it was my daughter, I would not be happy.

SPEAKER_45 1:00:04

Yeah, yeah. I definitely agree with you.

SPEAKER_39 1:00:06

Learn how to fix a robot, you know, pick a career that is truly a timeless career that doesn't involve stripping.

SPEAKER_53 1:00:15

And that's the problem with the new generation, which I think I'm just disappointed with them. Like I tell people, and there are definitely some, a lot of people actually do agree with me, not everybody, but some do, that millennials, my generation, we are the last working generation in this country. We're all that's really left. Because if you look at like most Gen Z and of course, like uh our offspring, they were born into a world of absolute and total privilege. They don't even know what the definition of hard work is because like they're not asking for Legos when they're eight years old, they're asking for an iPad.

SPEAKER_39 1:00:54

Yeah, and I'm gonna be I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here as a mother and a grandmother. Yeah. And as somebody who is truly age-blind and doesn't like categorizing, categorizing people based on the date on their birth certificate, yeah. I think it all ultimately boils down to responsible parenting. And I just came back from visiting my daughters and their kids in Maryland and just watching how they're raising their kids with Erend, you know, Erend Lit up on the refrigerator. I mean, in a lot of ways, they're like 1950s housewives. You know, they're my two-year-old granddaughter has to clean up her toys before she's allowed to play with a new one. They limit their kids' screen time. So I do think that we as individuals have the power and the dare I say responsibility to create a next generation of doers and thinkers. So privilege, perception of privilege is something that's created. It's not something you're born with. And in that in today's day and age, it almost behooves, I love that word, parents to go against the grain and say, no, I don't care if every kid in your class has a cell phone, you're not getting one, you're getting a gizmo with parental controls, which is what my daughter did with her nine-year-old daughter.

SPEAKER_53 1:02:17

Yeah, and I feel that that uh being given that uh when they are, that's the poison behind it. That is where the toxicity really lies. Like the moment that they find out about TikTok, they're like, What is this? Oh my god, I'm so intrigued. And they just I saw a great interview with Josh Brolin, and he said when it comes to acting, he's like, I do it for the love of the craft. He does it because he still likes movie making. He's like, this new generation, they just want to get famous, and he's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_39 1:02:48

SPEAKER_53 1:04:16

So I agree. And another thing that I think is like a problem with influencers is that they kind of cut people out from society, from like uh the social world we live in. Um, I watched a documentary um called Child Star, and they interviewed a bunch of like young kids and stuff, uh, and asked them, what's your favorite thing to watch? And they're like, YouTube, YouTube, influencers, TikTok, YouTube. Like it and that's that's kind of, I don't wanna say it's an addiction. Like you said, it does depend on how you're raised and stuff, but if you have constant exposure and develop this obsession with it, it basically puts you in this bubble or this locked cage where it's all you know, and it is what all what a lot of people really know. If you look at the way things are today, like people are not as social as they used to be and stuff. Everything is on your phone, everything's on your iPad, the internet is endless, it creates this cage, and I don't think that's healthy under any circumstances, especially for next year.

SPEAKER_39 1:05:26

You know, and that's something that I've been working really, really hard on is putting down the device, putting down the small screen. I am going out to the movies tonight to see a great story being told on a big screen with a big well, with a small bag of fresh popcorn with the artificial toxic butter on it, because that is my guilty pleasure. But I think that everybody has an obligation. I mean, again, nobody has to do anything other than, as they used to say, pay taxes and die. I do think that if you take one thing away from this podcast episode, is look at your own behaviors, look at your own biases, put down, and now I will drop an F bomb. Put down the fucking phone and get out into the real world and interact with real life humans.

SPEAKER_53 1:06:18

Yeah. I've come to learned, uh, and I'm not I'm not the only one, uh, people I've had as uh guests on my podcast and others I uh other people who I know like through work and stuff. I prefer these days I to just you to use like Instagram and Facebook as more of a marketing tool uh and an advertisement and networking system than the way it used to be. Because if you look, this is one thing that's really toxic about social media, is that that's how people also get their news from. That's what influences them is social media in general. They're not it kind, and because of how social media, the algorithms and uh the perception, the manipulation behind it, what you can't tell if this news is true or not.

SPEAKER_39 1:07:12

Yeah, and it didn't start out that way. I've been using social media since 2005, which was the first year it fell into the hands of adults. And back then, it was exactly what you're saying. It was a marketing tool, it was a connection tool, it was, and I'm still very, very active on LinkedIn. It's a great place to make business connections, like really meaningful business connections. So I never knew it at the beginning. That was all it really was to me. And then it became the social, weird social network, and then the sphere of influence emerged, which I call the no talent talent show, where anybody with a camera can dance and say, Oh, now I'm a star. And I just laugh when I look at it, because back in the era when I grew up, if you wanted to be on stage in a talent show, you needed to audition. And people who knew better than you did would say, Oh, she's got talent, which is why I was always like character actor in big bit parts, because I didn't have acting talent in my youth. I was a director and a prop master and a writer. Um, and so my acting years didn't even begin until I started speaking at professional conferences. But um, yeah, we're living in this world where everything has become kind of homogenized, and anybody who has a million followers thinks that they are popular and they have talent because they have a million followers. But then when I say to them, Well, who are your fans? they have no idea because it's all about the sheer volume as opposed to the quality. So I will sometimes call myself a quinfluencer because the circle of influence is small, but it's quality.

SPEAKER_53 1:09:00

Yeah, I saw a uh uh what is it in that same documentary, Child Star. I saw an interview with a former child star, uh I think Jojo something, I can't remember. Uh, but she said she became at one point she became obsessed with numbers, and that's kind of uh also where one of the problems lies. Like, as you said, like who are your followers? Well, I don't really know. They just see the numbers keep going up and up and up, and that's all that matters to them because that's what fuels the ego, that's what fuels the personification of fame, of being a TikTok star, of being a famous YouTuber. And some of these people, they go to like special premieres and red carpet events where actual like Hollywood icons are there. And I've heard stories like they'll try and associate themselves with I think like people like Leo DiCaprio. He literally walks away, he gives them the cold shoulder instantly.

SPEAKER_39 1:09:56

Yeah, no, I totally, I totally, totally get it. Yeah, and also when you get to those numbers, when you have a million randos following you, you get trolled. Um I have know somebody who, and look at again, I'm not getting political, but our our leaders today are all about rage baiting. They love putting really provocative, outrageous stuff out there just to get conversations going. But I grew up in an era where you can say something provocative, but that doesn't mean that it's mean-spirited or abusive. Like, you know, I put content out about the use of AI and responsible AI, and I know that it's going to give rise to intelligent debate. There's a difference between intelligent debate and random, stupid trolling. And two guys who I, one of whom I know, got into like a pissing contest on my Facebook wall. And I finally had to just say, I call it pulling a moe of the three stooges when he used to knock Shemp and Curly's heads together, where I was like, boys, would you just keep your ridiculous schoolyard brawl off of my Facebook wall? Because I want this to be a place of peace and intelligent debate, not of two assholes showing which one is a, again, now I'm gonna get really foul mouthed, has a is a bigger dick swinger. Like this doesn't belong on my page. I'm all for intelligent discussion and debate. And I've had strong feelings about things and have been proven wrong and have changed my views. If intelligent people have given me a different perspective, but this whole like wow, wow, wah, shit talking, rage baiting, trolling, it's just not my jam.

SPEAKER_53 1:11:43

Yeah, I mean I I I guess I might have learned the hard way. Like, I understand that rage and the trolling on your social media. Like, I used to be quite politically vocal on my Facebook page in general, and I would get a lot of backlash. I and I eventually I got called a Nazi and an anti-Semite because I do not agree with what's going on in the Middle East right now, and that was the camel, the straw that broke the camel's back. That's when I really woke up and realized that this is like a MAG breeding ground uh kind of just shit fest. That's all it really, that's all Facebook has really become.

SPEAKER_39 1:12:25

You know that if you take a political stance, the world is gonna blow up. I had a guest on my podcast, Helene Brick Cabbage, who's a divorce attorney, and all she did was say something very innocuous about Melania's prenup. And within an hour, we had 3,000 trolls making comments about her personal appearance, stuff that had nothing. And this is a very, very competent, well-respected matrimonial attorney. And we took the episode down just because neither of us wanted that toxicity in our lives. And my podcast producer was livid. He's like, Why did you remove that post? And I said, I want to live in a place of peace and happiness, and I don't really care what these randos have to say about my friend's face or my face. Like, this is not the conversation we're having right now. You know, we're talking about an intelligent legal topic. We're not talking about our faces. Like, yeah, have we have we completely lost our minds? So, um, yeah, great topic. I mean, we could go on for another couple of hours talking about the influencer bubble, but you know, if people take away anything from this, it's just to really, you know, as you and I were saying, you know, take a step all the way back and say, what do I want my legacy to be? If I got hit by a car tomorrow, would people stand up at my funeral and go, oh, I really loved her TikToks? Or would they say, oh, she was so kind, she was so helpful, she was an inspiration to my career and my life. I would choose the latter over the former any day.

SPEAKER_53 1:14:07

Yeah, yeah. Me, I like I never label myself under any circumstances as an influencer via my podcast. I'm not trying to like influence people or stuff like that. I'm trying to just kind of like shed a little light on how media has really warped and manipulated society, movies, television, and of course, like I said, this new craze of supposed celebrities, which is influencers. Yeah, and everybody who really's a movie that I I love and I resonate with very deeply. It's called A Good Person. I don't know if you've seen it, but the main character, Allie, uh, has a line in it. It's my favorite line because I think simply just because of the tone. She's like, you don't like it? She's who did that, who made you do this? She's like an influencer. She influenced me. And the way she says it in that kind of sarcastic, almost like drunken tone, is the perfect kind of spit in the face to the influencer community of like, you really are not having as much of an impact on our world as you truly believe you are.

SPEAKER_39 1:15:21

But it is totally pervasive. And I was just in Sephora this weekend, and they have end cap displays that said things like the product was blowing up on TikTok, and I deliberately avoided those displays, and instead I asked the salesperson what product was right for me. Um, but uh yeah, a a book that I just recommended to you that I think is amazing and that people should really pick up and read or listen to. It's called Cue the Sun, and it's about the evolution of reality TV. And starting back in the 1930s with Candid Radio, going all the way up to The Apprentice. And it's a it's a heavy book, but it really is a great encapsulation of how the reality TV and influencer culture came to be.

SPEAKER_53 1:16:15

Yeah, yeah. It definitely, I don't want to say it just clearly, you know, from your knowledge and years of experience, it's not something that just popped out of thin air. It was almost a movement in and of itself that quite rapidly consumed society and literally made a cement block on the internet and it's stuck there. And I'm not saying we need to get rid of it or anything, but we definitely need to find a better way to kind of control it.

SPEAKER_39 1:16:48

SPEAKER_53 1:17:41

Yeah. Well, here it's raining, so I don't exactly have the pleasure of like going out and like I'm not one to sing in the rain. I'm not Gene Kelly.

SPEAKER_39 1:17:50

Shoot your next movie here in Arizona.

SPEAKER_53 1:17:52

It's lovely and uh possibly. Uh what is it? One film that uh our the director for the film I'm currently working on, he uh he wants to make a movie, and I think we may end up filming it. He wants me to be involved, which is definitely great. Uh so makes a that's one thing. Like, I'm gonna get just into the to the industry. Like, for all you influencers who think you're famous, okay, let's take a world into the real world of film industry. We have to work hard to get where we want to be. And a lot of it does depend on luck. When a director who you are very new with and working on, when they say, when they when they say, like, hey, I'd like you to be involved in my next project, my next film, and here's so-and-so cast and what I have in mind, that means you have really influenced them in a positive way. You have shown them that you are doing this, like Josh Rowland said, for the love of the craft, because I like making movies. I want to tell stories that are going to resonate with people, that are going to impact people, that are going to maybe make them think a little outside of the box, even if the content is controversial. But when you get that that thumbs up, that big kind of high five, that means you have influenced someone.

SPEAKER_39 1:19:17

Love that, love that. That is a great, great closing, closing concept. Love that.

SPEAKER_53 1:19:23

Yes, yeah. Yes. And uh for all of you out there, all you media junkies, uh, if you want to support this podcast, have a chance to be a guest on the show. You can follow me on Instagram at ATK Media and check me out on uh Spotify, uh, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, wherever it is you get your podcast from. Don't forget to tune into Nancy's uh podcast, uh Age Blind. Uh, I'm sure you will definitely learn a lot of very light important life lessons and also like like with the movies I make, make you open up your mind a bit more. Look at things from a whole new angle.

SPEAKER_39 1:20:02

And you could also find me at nancyaf.com. That is my personal brand website, and I'm on Instagram as NancyAF underscore. And you could follow my link tree to see all the rest of my content. And as I said, we all have a day job. My day job is marketing consulting with an eye toward applying AI to solve very human and real problems. Um, and that company is called the OnSwitch, which has been around for 22 years. Same logo, talk about things that withstand the test of time. And my tagline is bright and timeless marketing, and I am truly timeless. And as I said earlier, the only new thing is the media. What's real and what's genuine and what's talent transcends time and space. And that will all shake out in the end.