New Seasons, Same Calling

Episode 5 of the Pastor Matt Approved Podcast is finally here! This week, Pastor Matt is joined by his wife, Ashley Wilkinson, for a conversation filled with laughter, stories, and a few heartfelt moments along the way.

Together, they talk about life transitions, unexpected changes, ministry, marriage, and what it looks like to trust God through every season. You'll also get a behind-the-scenes look at their journey, hear some fun stories from over 30 years of knowing each other.

It's a little bit of random, a little bit of fun, and a whole lot of Jesus. Don't miss it!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

All right. Well, welcome back to episode five of the Pastor Matt approved podcast. So it's been a little while since we uh put a podcast out, but we are back. And I'm so excited about our guest today. So our special guest we have on the podcast today is my best friend in the whole wide world. Like there is nobody better in the world to me than this person. And it is my wife. So Ashley Wilkinson, the great, the one, the only. Welcome to the Pastor Matt approved podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Thanks. It's exciting to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

It is. I'm so glad you finally agreed to come on the podcast. So uh it it's it took me five episodes to get you to come on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

So okay. Well, we'll see about that.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

It's gonna be your one and only, right? You're like, I'm done. No, no, we'd love you're always welcome to come on the podcast when you're available. You're a busy person. So you getting on the podcast has been very difficult.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

So I am so at least during the school year.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yes, at least in the school year. So, but there's a couple days and then you're done for the summer. So that's right. You can you can breathe.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Very excited about summer.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Yes, it's gonna be a great, great summer. So, all right, so uh as we do with all of our guests on here, we're gonna do what we call a rapid fire questions, and we're just gonna rapidly fire some questions off, and you gotta answer them. Uh, and you have not seen these.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I've been trying.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

You've been trying, I know you tried to look at them earlier, and I'm like, don't do that, stop it. You're not supposed to do that. So uh, so we're just gonna answer, you gotta answer these questions, okay? Okay, you ready? All right, all right. Parents that reply all to emails.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

No, you don't like that reply to the sender, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Not all. Matching family outfits at Disney.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

I'm still trying to get you to dress up at Halloween with us. So yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

You would be an amazing Olaf, though.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Olaf?

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yeah, we could do Frozen. Aaron could be Sven or Kristoff or something. You could be Olaf. Olaf.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Right. Okay. You think that's happening?

SPEAKER_02 2:18

I'd let it go.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Oh, I saw what you did there. Nice. All right, youth group lock-ins.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

I'm not a fan.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Crumble cookies.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

That one's hard. What's the other one we've been to that I like?

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Insomnia.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Yeah, I it's a toss-up. Sometimes I like insomnia better.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

And neither one of them paid for us to say that, but I do like them both.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

This episode is not sponsored by Cumble Cookie or Insomnia Cookies. But if they would like to be a sponsor, we are open and willing.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

For cookies.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

For cookies. Yes. We will put Crumble Cookies right here and let it look out on everybody. Sponsor. All right. Um, students calling you Miss Ashley in public.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

That one's hard because being a teacher, I hear Miss Wilkinson all the time.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

So Miss Ashley doesn't bother me too bad because I'm just I'm used to it.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Well, it's kind of like you know what where when somebody talks to you in public, they what they call you, you know, like Miss Wilkinson, then you know that's instantly Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

And if it's a s a student that I had years ago, like before we got married, it really helps me gauge when I had them based on what they called me.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Okay, this is more than 13 years ago. Yeah, that was that's awesome. All right, pumpkin spice in August.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Too early.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

November is too early. Oh, I am not a pumpkin spice fan.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Oh, no pumpkin spice. Okay. All right, gotcha.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

You there's time to improve.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

I'm like team apple cider.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Apple, okay. You all, yeah. You you are a fru-fruit drink person. I mean, yes, just say yes and move on. Okay. Uh pickleball couples. Pickleball couples, yes. Me and you play pickleball. Uh um, you want to go do it?

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Oh. I don't know. We have a little guy that might be really upset if we went and played pickleball without him.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Oh, that's true. Aaron loves using pickleball.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

A family, okay. As opposed to a couple.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, I got you. I got you. All right. Uh, group text after 10 o'clock p.m.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Never group texts. I'm not a fan.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

You're not a group texter.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

I don't, especially if I don't know all the phone numbers. Because then I don't know if I can be snarky or not. And that makes sense. You're snarky?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

No. Everybody, this is shocking information.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Okay. But when you get a group text and there's numbers on it you don't recognize, you don't know if you can be like your regular funny self, or if because people won't get the jokes if they're not part of all the same circles. So group texts make me nervous. And I also, if you share something, everybody puts a heart on it. We don't need all that. It's just too much.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Or have you ever like when you pick up your phone and you look at it and you're like, oh my, where to have 84 text messages, and you're like, what is going on? And you realize it's just one group text thread. Yeah, you everybody liked one group.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

I think the horsemen have wrote in because there's 40 text messages. That happens a lot when I'm at school.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

So you're trying to teach and then you get text messages.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Yeah, that's good. All right, pineapple on pizza.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yes. Big fan. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Big fan. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

It's actually really good if you add jalapenos to it too.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

So jalapenos and pizza. Pineapple at the same time. Ooh. I like it. All right. Golf vacations.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

I mean, I'm down. Driving a golf cart is great. I, you know, I'm not um the aficionado that you are, but we do play as a family, so that's fun. Yeah, we do. Um, you know, Aaron loves it. He's been playing since he was tiny.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

True.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Um, I think my favorite was the year he decided to run versus the golf cart, and I was really afraid that everybody would think you were mean and out there making him run down the course.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah, so instead of getting in the cart to go to the hit the next shot, he would just run, take off, run.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

And he would take off, and then you drive the cart beside him. It made you look like kind of an overbearing like this guy, this dad's a jerk.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Making his kid run out there on the golf course? No, he's throwing out his own wheel. He loves running. So all right, now we're gonna switch it for a who's more likely to, me or you in this situation? Who's more likely to do this? All right, are you gonna are you gonna answer to?

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yes. What do you think I can do that?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Okay, who's more likely to lose their keys?

SPEAKER_02 6:36

You mean absolutely yeah, I have to agree. Everything is air tagged.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, everything I have. And that still don't always it doesn't always help. It helped a lot, but it doesn't always help. Um, who apologizes first?

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Oh, that's a hard one. I think sometimes it depends on who got mad first. Um I would say probably you.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Probably I would say me. I would say me. Probably. All right. Who takes longer to leave church?

SPEAKER_02 7:11

That depends on who's talking to who.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

You talk a lot.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

I do, but you're not.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

You're a very social person, so you talk a lot. So well yeah, but I'm I'm there with you. So I just I just talk a lot.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Who is more emotional during graduation season? We just came through graduation season, so who who do who do you think was more emotional?

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Define emotional. Like, are you talking about teary or are you talking about just in general?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

In general, nothing.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

I think in general it was probably me. But you did tear up a time or two.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, there were some there were some moments. It's it was hard. It's hard, you know, watching your kid graduate over and grow up. Yeah. Um, all right, who cries during Disney movies? Who's like more likely to cry during a Disney movie?

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Oh, that one's hard too. I might we go you on that one too.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Maybe. Depends on the movie. I have an emotional side. Most people don't know that. You're very gentle. Most people probably don't know that, but I do have a little bit of an emotional side uh on that. So all right, so but it depends on the movie. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

There's a couple of movies that we wat we have watched that like I will cry every time. It doesn't matter. Such as trying to think of the one most recently. Something happened with the kids, and I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah, that's which certain things that always get you, no matter what the movie is.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

It's not, yeah, it's not the fact that it was Disney, but it was it was the theme of the movie, and it gets me every time because every time we watch it, Anya leans over and goes, Are you crying?

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Yes, I am. Yes, I am.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Because it has something to do, and I can't remember. I'll think of it later, but it has to do with kids because that's my soft spot, my kids.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Well, true. So uh Way, well, thanks for coming on the podcast today. This is uh So I survived the questions.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

You did, you did great.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

You did you did wonderful. You did that. So, you know, one of the things that I wanted to do since you're on here and we have uh uh, you know, since we're married and and in ministry together, um, is kind of just kind of pull the curtain back a little bit and let people get kind of an insight into our life and what our world is like sometimes. Um, you always got the public persona and like all everything is perfect and everything is, you know, uh everything is is all perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

I'm glad they don't always expect that out of us.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Uh and they always think things are always totally put together, but sometimes it's not. It appears that way, but it it sometimes it is a hot mess behind the scenes um when you do that. So, what is one thing that you think out there, if people that are listening, what is something that they don't probably think about when you think about ministry life? Like something that if if you were to they something that they don't maybe understand about ministry life?

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Oh gosh. Um I think the I guess the part for me that was hard is that it's still kind of messy because you do, you know, growing up, I did not grow up in a pastor's home like you did. Um now my dad was a deacon. I know we always joke about that.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

It's always trouble.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

But um, and my dad's my parents are worship leaders, retired worship leaders. And so there is some ministry in my family, but it's still messy, you know, it's still normal. Our kids still fuss at us and get mad and slam the bedroom door and um all of those kind of things. I think the hardest part is not feeling like I have to be somebody other than who I am. Not feeling the need to be perfect because I married a pastor. I think that's probably for me was kind of eye-opening because I have always seen that played out. And you know, I don't want that, I don't want that for my kids, I don't want that for the students that we serve, I don't want that for the families that we serve, is for people to, you know, see us one way and then see us somewhere else and we're not the same. Right. Um, because for I know for me, being a teacher for all these years, I do have students at our school that are also in our church. And so that consistency is huge for them to see that we're the same people.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Right. That's always been the goal. It's always been the goal that whatever we do, um whether it's at church or at home or out at Costco or or you know, the drive-thru at McDonald's, whatever it is, you know, you're you're um you're the same wherever you are. So that's really good. Um, so funny story, the other day we were at McDonald's and uh Sunday morning we were driving through the the drive-thru and literally we got up to the little window and the and the window wasn't open yet. So uh Aaron asked me if he could we could play his playlist, and so we played. I said, sure, hit the playlist. And so we played Thunderstruck by ACDC. So we play regular music sometimes uh as well in our car. And so I I looked in the back seat, and Aaron is like air rocking guitar, like head going, everything like that. And I'm like, so I was like, Yeah, so I started doing the same thing, and then I happened to look over to my left, and the lady at the window was like, I roll my window down, she's like, Rocking this morning, aren't you? I'm like, Yes, ma'am, I am sorry, rocking. That's it. I got a little rocker here in the back seat, and she actually looked at the back seat and was like, Oh yeah, you do. Okay, so just check in. Just check in the picture of it, like just say that say that, just you did that. So, um, but yeah, so so it's like that's who you that's just who we are. Like, we just you know, it is, and I think that's something that um is just very genuine, you know, that people um want to know about their leaders and people that like, hey, you you have fun and you do um, you know, you love Jesus and you do all that, but you also have just have fun as well. So I think that's really important. Um so what has been one of the most rewarding parts of being in ministry in the ministry life? Like, what do you think is some of the most rewarding that you see?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

I think for me, seeing kids, students that are in ministry that uh grow up and you see them minister to others. Um, you know, like even as far back as our last church, um, having a student, Cameron, I guess it's okay to say names, but um, you know, he was a wild and crazy part of our group, but then he grew up to uh, you know, be an interim youth pastor and he ministers through work he does in schools and things like that. So it's kind of cool to see that. Um I know that Hannah, your former intern, um, she was in the first group that I got to work with here um when we came to Hopewell. That was really cool to then see her transition into someone that is working as part of the ministry. Um, I think that's always rewarding. I think one of the best things is, and I'm so thankful that we're in a church that not only values you as a minister, but values my gifts apart from you. Um, you know, I have spoken with a lot of pastors' wives over the years who feel like they're kind of pigeonholed wherever their husband's called. And um, I'm really thankful that we are in a place that allows me to use the gifts that God gifted me separately, um, you know, by getting to help lead with the worship team and work with other than just working with kids, um, because I do that all day long, every day. Um, and our kids getting to be involved. Um, you know, Aaron doesn't know life without student camp and right, you know, events and things like that because he's been with us since literally the day he was born. So um I think those are all rewarding opportunities is that we've had those op those times where we could minister together, not just um but also separate and understanding our giftedness. Right. I think it's important.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

And I think for me the the most rewarding is just watching the the students um not only go from you know sixth grade to 12th grade, but then when they graduate and then watching them just grow up and watching them um be able to not only not not graduate from their faith, but they they they they embrace their faith. You know, a lot of them really embrace their faith and then they come back and they end up serving. You know, a lot of our leaders are former students that come back to serve or they're doing some kind of service project somewhere in the in the church or local church wherever they are. And you know, I just think that is such a neat thing to watch and see that it's not kind of going against the norm of a lot of students that that do fall off and do fall away. But uh man, we're so blessed that we have so many students that are here, and that's just such a rewarding thing to, you know, that a lot all of our leaders are able to just pour into them over the years and their parents um so that when they do go on their own, you know, they're able to continue to serve and and um and I think just even in the last five years, we've had students who've gone to serve internationally.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Um, we've had students go on mission across our country. We've had students, um, we have two that graduated last year that are serving at student camp this summer. Um we have one that graduation was what last week? And she's already plugged in and teaching in the children's hall here at church. So it's it's that part is such a gift um because sometimes when you're in those moments, and I know we've talked together with D now and things like that, and um D groups and things sometimes in the moment you're not a hundred percent sure they're getting it. So it's good to see the fruit from that.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

For sure, for sure. Um okay, one question. This is a big question about how in your opinion, how do you separate church life and family life?

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Can you?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

It's tall.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Um well yes and no. I think that one of the things, and and this kind of goes back to what you were asking earlier, one of the things I think that has been you have to separate church work from faith. And I know that sounds weird, but they are different. Um, when you work in church, you know, Sunday becomes a work day. You know, um Aaron was asking the other day about weekends, and because you know, typically Saturday and Sunday is the weekend, and um that's not always true for us because Sunday is a day where we have a pretty full day. Um, I think that's the the one thing that people don't often understand. They your average church person comes to church on Sundays or on Wednesdays, and you know, they don't see all the stuff that goes behind that that makes that happen. Um, I know for me that's been incredibly eye-opening working with like our guys that are backstage and in the booth and all the things that it's incredible how much it takes um for a service to happen. And the average person doesn't know that. They come in, they sit down, they sing, they don't see all of that background stuff. So I think when for me, the separation comes in keeping my faith centered on Jesus and that that is separate from the work that I do. For example, I sing praise and worship music because we have to learn the songs for Sunday morning, but that's not the only time I sing praise and worship. I sing praise and worship in my time with Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Oh, yeah, you do. Well, you sing all the time. Yeah, it's beautiful. I love it. Um that's why when people say, like, well, they love to see you worship, they love to see all that, and it's like, you know, it happens, it does. What you see up there is what you see at home too. And that's that's the beautiful thing about you that you're not two different people. Like what you what you see up on stage is who you are uh the rest of the time.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

But I think the same is true for you. You know, when you are studying to lead the youth or to speak or whatever, that's not that's not the same thing as your time with Jesus. And so I think that's the part that when you say separation, that's what comes to my mind. Not so much, I mean, I would be here, I know it sounds bad. I would be here 24-7. I would sing 24-7. I I mean, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Um, God did not gift me with vocational ministry, so I do other things, you know, other jobs, but it is it is a passion.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

But I do think that that's the part that sometimes is hard for people to understand. Um, you know, when we get away, we still go to church as a family. It might not be in another physical building, it might be online, but you know, we still go to church as a family. And um, you know, that's something I didn't always grow up doing, especially, you know, technology's made that a lot easier.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

But that's something that it's still part of our everyday life.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I think it's one of them things when you think about a lot of times when people think church life and family life, that so many times people don't realize what it takes to pull off an event or like like Sunday morning you talked about, you know, all the hard work that goes in behind the scenes during the week and during the actual service, what it takes to pull that off. And um, I think a lot of times we don't, we don't, I know I growing up, I never really realized how much it goes into those events and goes into those things that you don't see. Um, I think a lot of times people just maybe take for granted, like, oh, it happened and they just walk out, but it's so much behind the scenes we go into like true, and but I don't I also don't want to play it up like it's a production because it's not.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Those are gifts and talents of the people that serve with us. And um, you know, one of the best things I had the opportunity, I I do teach journalism um to middle school students. And one of the coolest opportunities I ever had was I actually got to bring them here to our church and show them kind of the production side of what we do. And I actually think I learned more than the kids did about what actually happens, but it's such a neat thing to be able to see that um, you know, you can use your talents in a lot of different ways. And so I for me, that separation is almost hard to, yeah. I guess it's really hard to say it's separate because it's just part of who we are and what we've been called to do.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Yeah, that's really true. Um, so talking another thing I want to talk about too is a little bit about transition and life changes. Um we've had a few of those. We've had a few of those over the past little while. Um, so a lot of times, you know, we uh just announced not long ago that I'm gonna be stepping out of student ministry after 25 years.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

I'm glad you said not didn't say down. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Stepping, stepping out of youth ministry, and I'm gonna be um kind of changing roles uh and it's gonna be the pastor's communications here at Hopewell. Um, so that's been a lot of transition, and that's a big life change for us. And so Um, you know, what would you say to somebody that is in that shoes or in those shoes that are thinking about going through transition or um making changes? Like I know right now, like seniors are just gra graduating, you're gonna ready to graduate, they're gonna take the next steps uh in their life, and so what we've also been through that.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

We've been through that.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

So yeah, so what would what would be some advice that you could give to somebody uh in that that realm?

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Um transitions are always gonna happen. Like I think there's a quote somewhere the only constant in life is change. And I think that's true because as soon as you get used to something or you get comfortable with something, it changes. Um I think you have to embrace it. It's gonna be different. Um, I know your mom told us a story years ago um after your dad passed away, about um still being at the church and not being the pastor's wife anymore and being a church member and what that transition meant for her and how for a period of time she kind of felt like she was a little bit lost because she'd been a pastor's wife for what 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

I mean, a long time, like the maj all of her adult life, but the majority of her life. And in that time span, she really had to lean into who God created her to be. Because, you know, a lot of people don't know this about your mom, but she's a very, she has a huge servant's heart. She is the most hospitable person I've ever met.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Um, she has that gift. But, you know, I know she talked about having to find her fit because for so long she had been identified in this role of being his wife. And, you know, I've thought about that conversation that we had several times over the last little bit. Um, because a lot of times I introduce myself as Pastor Matt's wife or the youth pastor's wife because it helps people kind of connect who we are. Um, so that's gonna be different because they won't see you the same way. Um, but you know, this didn't catch God by surprise. So I have a feeling that he's got ways and uh opportunities for us to use talents that we have in new ways. And I'm kind of excited about that. Um, I just like you have never spent life outside of student-oriented jobs being a teacher. So um, and with four years until I hit 30, you know, I think about that too, that there may come a season where we are not with kids anymore. Um, so I don't know what that looks like.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

So what do you do, you know, and this is an interesting, a lot of people may not know this, but what do you do like when you feel like God's calling you to do something? But it's scary, it's unknown, you don't know what what do you do in a situation like that? What advice can you give to somebody? Because I know this for me was unknown, it was scary. Uh, you know, I was like, I I mean, we you know, we sat down, we talked, we prayed, we were like, God, please let us know if this is the right door to open for us or not. Um, all through that. But what do you do in a situation like that? Because you know, you had this instance like this a couple years ago, because the Lord put on your heart to write a book. And so you decided to write a book, and you came to me. I remember this conversation. I'm like, cool, let's do it. And you were like, wait, what? You know, and so what what do you what would you tell people that are out there that that maybe have a dream or have something out there that they feel like God's maybe calling them to do, but there's just some either fear or um you know, they're scared or they don't know how God's going to provide to make that happen. Like, kind of tell a little bit of your story when you because I know you walked through all of those things uh in order to get to get Ellie's dream.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

It took about two years. Um, I wrote the book, the the actual story. This is almost embarrassing. I wrote the actual story in about 48 hours, but it took me two years to publish it. Um the fear was real. I mean, the fear of you know, writing, and I've I've been a writer my whole life. I mean, I've I've had poems published in college, I have written things personally, I've written, you know, plans and things for kids, as all the things I do at school. Um, but this one was so personal because number one, it was it was based off of Anya, which is our daughter, my daughter. And um my son is also featured in the book. There's a little cameo of him. And so there's an element of that, well, what if people don't like it? This is about my kids, you know, and you have to separate the two, but the fear was real. Like I remember, I mean, do you remember when I had everything done and ready and I just literally had to check the box to say yes, publish, go to print? And I was like, I could physically could not do it for a while. Um and we had the agreement with the publisher for probably six, eight months before I even started that part. Um, you know, for me, that fear was like paralyzing. And one of the things that I've learned is that sometimes God uses those moments to grow us. And I use that to say, you know, when you came to me and talked about this position and this possibility, you know, my first thought was, well, look at how, you know, all this played out. It's very similar to how God's changed your role or your location or whatever over the course of your ministry. And so you can't discredit that, you know, God using a similar pattern. You know, one of the things, and it's kind of selfish, and and I hate to admit that, but it kind of is. One of my biggest prayers is always, God, just open the right door because sometimes I don't have the discernment. I I'm in a place right now where I'm gonna jump at the first thing that comes my way. And if it's not what's best for me, then you know, don't allow that door to open. And sometimes that's like, well, you get sad about it, but that's what you asked for. And um, you know, I know we've been through some situations before where that was literally my only prayer because I knew that I did not have the strength within me to make the right decision. Um, and I needed to, I just I needed him to do that. And I think that's one of the things that we've talked with students for years and years and years about having that close connection to Jesus. It's not just, it's not just coming on Sundays and coming on Wednesdays and opening the Bible when Pastor Matt gets up to preach. Like it's a it's a living, breathing relationship. And when you have that, you know, it's gonna sound the Bible speaks to you and it it connects to you in a way that the spirit uses it in you that others might not experience it the same way. And I don't have any other way to describe it. Um, but I know that through a couple of situations in our life, the book being one of them, it was God, please only open the door. Um, and and that that's true. The very first publisher that I talked to, we ended up not going with because I just didn't feel good about it. Um just the story is loosely based off of the scripture, Jeremiah 29, 11, um, that God has plans for all of us. And it doesn't say God's gonna give you your plan, even though I've tried. It doesn't say that, you know, God's gonna bless your plan. It it says that he has plans for you and we have to follow his plan. And um the first publisher had a segment or a portion of their industry, I don't know what you call it, that was a lot more secular and it was types of writing that I was not comfortable with. And so um I kind of closed that door, and then the door opened up with West Po to do it that way, which I was very, very thankful for. It ended up being better because um the illustration process was a little more owned by me and I I'm appreciative of that. So I actually own the whole work, not just the words, but the whole thing. And so that's kind of a technical thing, but that wasn't that was a situation where I saw God open a door that I didn't even know was there. Um and he opened up that door to see that happen. So I think that's for me, I think I've gotten off topic, but that's Well, no, I think that's great because you there's so many things in there that you could talk.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

No, we could have multiple episodes uh from here on out uh on that. But I think one of the things that you hit on called learned by lived experience. Yes. Um, one of the things that you talked about that I think is so crucial is basically your identity. Like, where is your identity? And and you want your identity to be in Christ and not in what you do. You know, a lot of times, especially for me as a pastor, a lot of pastors, a lot of people in their job, that's what their identity is, what they do. And so for instance, what happens if I'm not a youth pastor, I'm not a ministry anymore, I'm not in, you know, something. What do you do? You know, your identity is taken away because your identity is not in Christ, your identity is what you do. And I think that's so important that we, you know, we have to remember that. And whoever listens to this and our students, man, we want them to know that, man, put your identity in that relationship with Christ because that is above all more important than anything else that you can do.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

Everything else fades.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Yes, everything else fades and that won't at that. So, you know, that's what you need to put all your all your eggs in, all your basket and all that kind of stuff to make sure that you're just focused on that relationship, your identity uh over that. And I think when you're focused on that, then those doors are gonna open for you. Um and they're gonna be able to go along that.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

So But I think you're too, you're not so focused on the outcome. You're the end doesn't become as important, if that makes sense. Like not getting what you wanted or what you thought was gonna be the plan doesn't have you I'm not gonna say you're not disappointed, but it doesn't have the same level of letdown if you're putting all your focus in that.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

So for sure. Well, hey, thank you for joining us today. Um, man, this has been great. And you know, I'm super excited about what the what the Lord's doing. And um, you know, just so everybody knows out there, the Pastor Matter Proof Podcast is going to continue. It's not going anywhere. Uh, we're gonna continue to do that. Um, but it's just been a great um have you on and talk to you and share and uh the world gets to see how awesome you are now. Um not that they didn't already know, but now we talk a lot. They do. We do, we actually do. That's one of the things I think for me and you it's really cool. We just sit down and talk and share and have ideas and um do things. So um I just think that's really, really, really cool that we have that. So thanks for being here. Maybe we'll have you on another episode. Um anytime. If you'll come back.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Anytime.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Okay, that'll be awesome. So and who knows? Maybe the next, you know what? We we haven't even just one thing we haven't even talked about. We've been talking about they'll get to see a natural reaction, all the different things that we talked about, you know, um, about these transitions and all this. But I think also that God also continues to affirm things along the way through things as you walk through the process. The further you go through, God's continued to affirm. And that's happened in our situation with this. And um, so um, you know, and I think it'll be cool because maybe the way that this is lined up, maybe one of our next episodes, our new youth pastor may be sitting and talking to us on the next episode. So uh we can't really say anything about that yet because it's not completely public knowledge, so therefore but people can pray for that, but yeah, but they pray through that transition because whether we know or not, it's he knows, right? So that'd be cool. So, spoiler alert, maybe the next one could be uh our next youth pastor. Who knows? Could be sitting in the chair and talking to everybody, so that could be constantly or at least in the next coming episodes. Coming episode, yeah. We'll give us a little grace here in case uh case we haven't. So uh, but great. So hey, uh hey, thank you so much for being here. This has been a great comp conversation. Um, and so hopefully there's been people out there that listened and enjoyed it. Um, so we'll keep continue this as we uh go through this journey. Um, but we're just super excited about what God's doing, not only here uh you with us, but just at transit and at Hopewell and just just around the world. I think Pastor Brandon nailed it this past Sunday when he talked about the future of the church and it's the next generation. And uh, we got to do everything we can to go after them and uh help help engage them with God's word and just uh and and the the life he has for them.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

So it's not the world we grew up in.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Preach, preach. So all right. Well, thanks everybody for joining us. Be sure to go uh online and like and subscribe so that you can stay up to date with everything Pastor Matt approved. And actually, guess what? I have great news for you.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

What's that?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

You are officially Pastor Matt approved.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

So you were Pastor Matt approved a long time ago, just so you know, but it's official now that you're on the podcast with that. So thanks for joining us today. And we look forward to listening and hearing from everybody next time on their Pastor Matter approved podcast.