The Cutting Up: A Kiki with Connie & Lina

Glam, Grit & Glisten: Our Convo with Wilson Cruz

• Pride House Media • Season 1 • Episode 123

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0:00 | 53:11

Baby… this episode? A whole mood.

Wilson Cruz dropped into The Cutting Up and we started where all important conversations start: backstage glam. Because if we’re going to talk about surviving late-stage capitalism and political chaos, we’re at least doing it moisturized.

But don’t get it twisted — the kiki got real.

We talked about what it means to trust timing in a career that’s feast‑or‑famine. Wilson’s been in this game for decades, and instead of spiraling when the phone isn’t ringing, he’s cocooning. Nurturing his artistry. Sharpening his activism. Staying ready so he doesn’t have to get ready.

And yes, we got into the work.

From campaigning in the tri-state area to his role as board chair of GLSEN (now Glisten — hello rebrand), we talked strategy, chapters, and the upcoming National Student Climate Survey. Because protecting queer kids is not a side quest. It’s the mission.

We unpacked voter regret. Misinformation. Immigration fear tactics. Political distraction. The way they keep trying to divide and conquer like it’s 1992 and we haven’t read a book.

But here’s the thing — we are not despairing. We are organizing. Locally. Intentionally. In community.

Wilson also gave us tea on new indie projects, theater work, and a play about radicalization (timely much?). We talked about what it means to be a working artist when the industry feels morally… wobbly. How do you build when diversity is backsliding? You build by us. For us.

And through it all? Protect your peace. Escape the algorithm. Touch grass. Fortify your local LGBTQ center. Stay curious. Stay dangerous. Stay moisturized.

This episode is glam and grit. Fishbowl chaos and acceptance speech gratitude.

We laughed. We vented. We plotted.

And as always — we’re cutting up, but we’re not playing.



Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cutting-up-a-kiki-with-connie-lina/id1849020008

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/200MOk48TaLRPLQvzx2UK0?si=6499dd094f704a10

iHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1333-the-cutting-up-a-kiki-wit-303161901 


Write to us at Kiki@TheCuttingUp.com


And follow us on instagram:

@TheLinaBradford

@TheRealConnieGirl

@PrideHouseMedia


The Cutting Up: A Kiki with Connie & Lina is a Pride House Media production.

Producers: Josh Rosenzweig & Matthew Breen.

Graphic Design by Daryl Raymond.

Original Music by 808 BEACH (John “J-C” Carr & Bill Coleman), courtesy of Peace Bisquit. 

 Production Design by Darryl Dickens. 

Our very special thanks to Jason Kanner for all your support.


SPEAKER_02

You're gonna get it, honey. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_03

It's time for the cutting up. A Kiki with Connie and Lena.

SPEAKER_02

This is your backstage pass to all the dish trips. And that's the truth, Ruth. Come on now. Get into it. Welcome, Black. Hi, Lena. How are you? Delicious. How are you? Cooking. You're looking gorgeous and all in a black um some. You know what's funny? I never wear black a lot. Well, you well, lots of black has been in you.

SPEAKER_04

No, that's not true. Okay. That is not true for two reasons. Are we already going there, Sugar? Your makeup looks amazing, by the way. You look like Christmas. I love the bum. You like the bum?

SPEAKER_03

Oh, ooh, ooh.

SPEAKER_04

It's very charente. Exactly. Oh, God bless her, charente. God damn it. She was a beaut, honey. She was. But honey, this mug situation. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

It's a David Dahl Rin bum.

SPEAKER_04

Is it? Yes, it is. I knew those paillettes looked familiar.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

And the Joan Collins collection, I see you in it. We got the good rocks out of it. My grandmother used to say to me, she's like, honey, she's like, go get me my good rocks out the freezer. Yes, honey.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, because it is good. Yes. Nobody ever looks. No, exactly. The freezer. Hello. Yeah. And this ensemble, she she is, um, she is a lace insect.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, it's it's it's got a lot going on for a little material. Hello. Hello. Yes. Con Con. Yes. So as we were putting together this cycle, there was a um roster of people that have spoken to me and that I live for. And as you know, because you've been sitting right there. Thank you. You have met some beautiful cherubs that you, some that you knew and some that you didn't. This next one who I'm going to conjure up in this situation has always, and when I tell you always, there's very few people, especially in our industry, who show up, and I mean that in so many different ways. Yes. Not just as um an artist, but as a friend. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome. I'd like to well some. I'd like to balsome and wellsome.

SPEAKER_03

Well someone.

SPEAKER_00

Hello, hello, hello. Gorgeous. Thank you for breaking me out of my military doldrums in my apartment to join you here today. There's no other way.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you for joining us. We are honored. No, please. Thank you. I'm honored. Disgusting. I know.

SPEAKER_04

The hoju over this mug. Seriously, the mug is sitting the hair. You look right, honey.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. You know, I'm well rested. Moisturized. I am. I'm well moisturized. Thank you. I, you know, I had a little bit of appeal, so I'm, you know, I'm I have my uh my my my sunscreen on because it's a very sunny day. Oh finally. New York for a day. A day. So, you know, I had to protect the mug so that I don't.

SPEAKER_04

The mug is sitting, darling. You look yum yum gibby sitting. Looking renewed. Renewed and glowing.

SPEAKER_00

Looking renewed.

SPEAKER_04

Maybe not feeling renewed.

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna get you there, baby.

SPEAKER_04

We were canceled.

SPEAKER_00

You should not be renewed. That's right.

SPEAKER_04

Cancelled means something new and better, fiercely coming, honey. So there's that.

SPEAKER_00

Patience is a good truth.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely. And God knows we need that, honey. It's been uh it's been the theme of my last couple of years. Yes. And that's all good because I feel like one, there's no gig, uh, there's no um uh mistakes in this gig called life. You know what I mean? Anytime that we think that, oh god damn, this should still be happening, this should still be going, or why is this not happening, or I need to make this happen. Sometimes you block the blessings if you put too much into it. I feel like one, if it's coming my way, it already knows that I'm ready for it. Or I'm not. So it just really depends on the moment and where I'm at spiritually as well. Well, you're talking about trust, you're talking about faith.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And so, I mean, as a working actor of 34 years, um, you have seen different versions of me. Um, and I have been through this, right? Uh, you know, where you you work all the time for a couple of years, and then you have a few years where you don't. And um experience teaches you that you have to be prepared for those moments, no matter who you are. That's right. Yeah, that's right. So I'm in a in a moment now where I feel like I am uh nurturing the artist in me, like because I was so busy for so long that you know I I had to keep things on the side, you know, you know, um not able to spend as much time with my family, not able to, you know, spend enough time with my husband. Right, you know, and so this time in my life is really about okay, I'm I'm 52. Bitch. Um I'll take that for now. Uh I'm 52, right? Um I I've done a few things. Um I'm really taking this moment to figure out what I really want to do with the rest of this time and what's important to me. Right. Who's important to me? What am I what am I um devoting my time to? And so it's been a really interesting year. You know, I worked on the on the Harris Walls campaign uh here on the East Coast of the Tri-State area, yeah. Uh really talking to Puerto Rican voters and Latinos, and um that was a really difficult um effort on all of our parts. A lot of those names weren't good, a lot of the lists we had when we were going door knocking weren't good. Oh my gosh. It was really uh it was a hard time. And um and the outcome was was was not desirable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And um disappointing in ways and sort of um reductive.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um and you know, I saw I don't know if you um has everybody seen Sinners?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00

So Sinners has stayed with me. Uh I've seen it a few times now, and I go back to this um the moment when they're at they're at the juke, and um the guy, I keep forgetting his name, who was whole who was guarding the door. He went out and peed, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're trying to let him in. Or he's trying to get in. And I felt very much like um I I related to the I relate to that scene so much because I think about um all of those Puerto Ricans and Latino voters who are having their faces right their leopard eaten by a leopard at the moment because they're um seeing what so many of us were trying to warn about for so long. Um and it's exhausting to be that person who's always you know sounding the alarm.

SPEAKER_02

And fighting f fighting for not only self, but fighting for others. That's what I mean. Here's the thing. We we we we we are we we are sending out the call for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and I'm not, you know, when I was campaigning, I wasn't campaigning on, you know, please vote for this person because you're gonna help me. No, no. I was thinking about my I'm thinking about you. I'm thinking about you. Exactly. I'm thinking about my 19-year-old niece. That's right. The future. Yeah, who can no longer get an abortion. I'm thinking about my two nephews whose schools are deteriorating, yes, who aren't getting the true history. It's not black and white, y'all. There's so much, especially in the middle. Yeah, and so you know, when that idea or when those concepts were rejected, I you know, I like I think a lot of people kind of just uh stepped back. Yeah. Um, and so I've really been taking this time. And we had to. We had to take it. We did to um to step back, do a lot of listening. I has been, I I'm not saying I haven't been active, I'm just listening a lot. No, yeah. Um, and I'm really devoting my time to how are we going to get past what's gonna happen when we get past this moment? How are we preparing our young people to endure this moment, which is going to last at least a couple more years?

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so I've been um the the chair of the board at Glisten um for Love Glisten. A few thank you for loving working with them, honey. I've been well I've been I've been on the board for I think over 10 years. Yeah, I've done that. Yeah, I started with them when they did when they were creating a PSA through the ad council back in 1997 when we were talking just about bullying and so. Right, right, right, yeah. And so um I helped them with you know um the creation of that, and then I I joined the board, and now um I am their their board chair. And so the last year has really been about right-sizing the organization. We've rebranded um after over 30 years of being known as GLS. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Now we are the word Glisten. So that's I love that's far more inclusive. Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, we are refocusing and um reimagining Glisten for a new generation. We're still doing the work of making sure that schools are safe for our students, but what we're doing more of now is how are we empowering these young people to create those schools? Yeah, to fight in their school boards along with their parents and teachers to make sure that they're being taught the history and the education that they deserve.

SPEAKER_04

And heard because these are the people who it matters too. You need to listen to these kids. Right. Stop acting like you know too much, older people.

SPEAKER_00

And, you know, for instance, for example, listening to them means actually speaking to them. What is your experience in school? And so in the next two weeks, uh, you know, for 30 years, we've been doing the national student student climate survey, national student climate survey. Uh, and so in two weeks we'll release the latest one. Um, and we'll get a real picture of what the school experience has been under this administration and how we can to give you some receipts to show you. Yeah, look at that. And what do the what do our students need? How are we going to step up for them? What is it that they're asking of us? What do they need? How do we make it better?

SPEAKER_02

And the extent of the harm. Right, right, right, right, right, right. Exactly. And how it and how it will go down the line. And where the fight is right now. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know, we're we're strengthening our relationship to our chapters around the country. We've we have less chapters, but we are have we are more concentrated in areas we need to be, and we're going to be growing slowly. We're also growing the board. So the the entire organization is being refit for this moment in time for this new generation and for the people who support them.

SPEAKER_04

See, and and and this is exactly where I feel like a lot of our people, especially of our demographic and how we came up, is where our work is right now. I also had to do that pause out of that time. We were all fighting. We were out there. I was doing everything that I could within my realm. Yeah. Because we knew. We knew, we do. And y'all weren't listening. But again, this is for um a larger um uh collective to now get on board and to do the work. We've done, we've had no choice than to do this work. We have to wake up and do this work every day we walk out the house. Every day. So this is now for other people to do, like you said, we'll do it in other areas, but we're not doing it like we did before.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_04

And that's okay, because there needs to be other people doing what we're doing. Right. And then we got our freedom fighters and everybody else doing those things too.

SPEAKER_00

And and this could be controversial or whatever, but I think for so long, um we were expected to carry that torch, to do the hard work. Who who is working the uh the the the polls on election day? Our people are. Yes. Our our senior citizens.

SPEAKER_04

The one that everything is being directed toward. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Who is who is the loudest on uh during a protest or a demonstration? Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

It's us. Who is leading that?

SPEAKER_00

Always has been. So, you know, there has to be, I think we've we've gotten to a point now where it's like we need some buy-in from you. Yeah, yes, thank you. We need to understand.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, and energy from you.

SPEAKER_00

Because there's no evidence of that at the moment. Right. There hasn't been. And so we've been we've been practicing and working under the assumption that, you know, if we if we fight hard enough, you guys will meet us here. But there's no there is no evidence of that happening.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So now you go, you tell us where you want this to go, and we'll see if we're gonna join you in that. Because in the meantime, we're going to do what I've been trying to do for myself. That's right, which is build community, right? How are my parents doing? How are the people in my immediate community doing? And how can I help them throw it out? That's what we can help, and that's what we can do right now. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

And um play it forward because it's not it's not only for us, it's for it's for the world as a whole. And I think what what you're saying about sitting back and renewing is it is this sort of our plight to fight for not only ourselves, but for the collective.

SPEAKER_00

I think that it's a time for all of us. Well, I'm gonna speak for myself because um I get into trouble. For me, for me it is not here. For me, it's been about um giving myself the education that I wasn't given, right? So coming out of the election, I felt like, okay, there's some stuff that I need to go back and and read about, right? So it was interesting that during the last year I decided I was gonna read this book called America America. And it's it's about the relationship between the United States um and in the Western Hemisphere, uh, specifically uh South America and the Caribbean and um that diaspora.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um and so it was interesting to be reading that book while we were um extracting the leader of Venezuela, uh while we were attacking every single uh Latino group here in the United States through ICE, uh watching Bad Bunny's uh Super Bowl halftime show, and how all of these um elements that we were experiencing in terms of the United States imperialist and um uh authoritarian hold that they feel they have over the Western Hemisphere, and these moments of jubilation and joy that coincide at the same time. And I'm reading about them in this book and watching them all play out in front of the same time and repeating itself. So we keep repeating these same lessons because we don't know enough. I didn't know enough because we're not taught enough, because we're expected to stay ignorant because if we're ignorant, then we can be controlled.

SPEAKER_04

And this is why we've had this for so long, correct.

SPEAKER_00

And that's why I And that's why people vote against their own interests. Right, it wasn't. And that's why I can come to my people now in Puerto Rico and be like Puerto Ricans who voted the way they did and be like, you know what, I'm disappointed in you, but I understand why you did that because you didn't know this and this and how's that working out for you now? You know, it helps me. Yeah, right, right. Oh, you're asking me. Yeah, no, no, yeah, exactly. It's not working out for you.

SPEAKER_04

No, no, no, exactly. And they know this now. Everybody's had buyer's remorse, but I've said this a million times, I'll say it a million times more. There is a reason that we've needed to go through this. We've had to get under the hood of this country for the longest time. We're hardheaded. We haven't learned since 9-11, we haven't learned since the pandemic. But guess what? This is our time to wake the fuck up because we don't have a choice now.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What's frightening to me about 9-11 is um the people who who did that awful thing to this city and to this country planned that for oh decades. Didn't just happen that day. Right, yeah. Because of the actions of administration that they took um that radicalized people that allowed them to do that. Now, here we are. Not what, 25 years later?

SPEAKER_04

Is it 25 years?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, 25 years later from 9-11, and we are literally bombing uh Iran, which we tried not to do, which every president has tried to avoid has avoided tried to avoid to do um since you know since since forever, since Carter, right? Yeah, yeah. Um well you just said that president, this is not a president, right? Exactly. So my fear is what what are we radicalizing now? Right? Even the new the new the new um Ayatollah, I guess.

SPEAKER_02

I Ayatollah, yes.

SPEAKER_00

He's not gonna he's not someone that is gonna work with the administrator of the Americans. We killed his parents. Yeah, right? He's the angriest one of all. We actually replaced one awful leader with another with a worse one, which by the way was the thing that Donald Trump said would be the worst outcome of this war. And here we are.

SPEAKER_04

Well, again, all deflection because you've got a million things going on, sweetheart. So you know what? Right, why not a war?

SPEAKER_00

Because they don't want to talk about the Epstein. That's what I'm saying. That's what's back to have we in the last week, just in the last week, the the amount of times that people have looked up anything about the Epstein files on the internet has gone down 95% in the last week. That is a a statistic that was released yesterday. Yesterday. So it's working. This was this week, yes. This was there, the the number of times people are searching about or looking for information on on the Epstein files has calmed down that much, right?

SPEAKER_02

Because parents are worried about sending their children to be maimed and murdered.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And is his son going? He's of age now. Please. When FDR was president, he sent people over to fight World War II.

SPEAKER_04

You're not living in right times. All of this thing fought in the war. Any of the things that a president or uh an administration were doing, it it doesn't acute to this. It's also they are a con show on a whole nother level of deplorable.

SPEAKER_00

I honestly believe that this is a person who's disturbed, right? He is mentally ill, um, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_01

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know, I think there is a pathology there that he feels that he hasn't been loved enough by this country and hasn't been recognized. You're a white man in America, please. All of all of the things that he feels he's done. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02

He's never won an Emmy, never won't for the apprentice, which it's not a good thing. Or just doesn't feel or just doesn't feel appreciated.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Didn't wasn't loved by his parents. Uh, and now he's facing the end of his life, and he's having retribution on everybody he's got those shits together. He hasn't given it to him. Yeah, yeah. Um, and that's all of us, because especially those of us who've been in New York for 30 years, we know who this person is. Yes, exactly. So um the problem is, of course, is that we all pay for this. Um and and the reason why we're dealing with it is because people benefit from it.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And enough of them uh convinced themselves that they benefit from it that they chose to vote with their wallet for him.

SPEAKER_02

You vote with your wallet, and I will be okay, and you know, I'll uh I'll be able to survive. Yeah. There's ones that definitely cost to And to whom? To to the people around you.

SPEAKER_00

Because he doesn't care about us. This is clear. No, right.

SPEAKER_04

We see who he serves, but there are also the people who did do that for monetary and now obviously are not. Well, some of them are, but yeah, most of them are not. Um, but we also do know that anything that you've ever done and anything that you've ever gotten hasn't been legit. Now we know that. Right. But you know, I'll leave that just right there. But he'll deny, he denies, he denies any lies, right?

SPEAKER_00

And this is the thing.

SPEAKER_04

But the truth always comes to the surface. Right.

SPEAKER_00

But the floor is always moving with some senses, but we've done nothing about it. The floor is always moving with this guy. He's not, you know, he's shifting all the time. And he's never you can never nail him down on anything. It's the reason why he every every um uh you know, everything that he says is couched so that it can be taken differently by different communities, different uh populations, you know. He's um uh learned the game.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. He's learned the game and he plays the game on itself. Yeah. So that we can't really sort of gauge.

SPEAKER_04

Deflection, deflection, deflection. But the thing is is that as opposed to when he was there the first and the second time, people are hip to the game. There are a lot more people out there literally doing all the little fires and putting them out and being more proactive. Baby, when I tell you we got this, we got this. We have got this. We because we have no choice. Yeah, we either do or we don't. Yeah, and we weren't in that place before. We we knew we were, but not the other people. It has woken up on a larger collective now, you know, which sometimes is what hard-headed American human beings need to see. Yeah, they need to see how bad it can be for them to actually say, okay, maybe I need to do something for the next person because it might come to me next. And we see it's all a domino effect. They think they can go after the smallest margin, then the one after that, baby. Guess what? You're seeing people come together like you've never seen before. Yeah, and that's beautiful, especially in New York.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's true.

SPEAKER_04

You know, yeah. It's sad when we see a lot of our brothers and sisters in the middle and all that stuff. Listen, we got you to, we'll get you to where you need to go, you know? But we're seeing, like I said, we're seeing people be there and be more empathetic. Yeah when people didn't really care before.

SPEAKER_00

I also think, you know, um, there's a real desire. Here in New York for new leadership or younger for a younger vision.

SPEAKER_04

Who we got as our mayor.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. And I think he's doing a fabulous job. Fabulous. Yes. You know, I think AOC is doing a great job. There's a I live in the 7th Congressional District where Nidia Velazquez is retiring. And there's a young person, a young queer person named Claudia Valdez. Yes, Valdez, yeah, she's Pierce. Who is uh collecting signatures to just get on the ballot, and she's incredibly progressive. Uh she's with the Democratic Socialists of America, and so I'm helping them collect um signatures.

SPEAKER_04

Let us know if there's anything happening.

SPEAKER_00

I I I'll have the the petition here for you to sign. Bring it, bring it. So as long as you're as long as you're a registered Democrat, you can sign the petition. Yeah. Um, but um, you know, I think that's the kind of things we need to be doing. Like let's look, let's start local. Um, let's concentrate on our communities, on our family units, who we can help. Um, you know, what we can do for our young people to empower them to take on what they can take on and grow into good citizens. Um, I think that's where I'm focusing my energy.

SPEAKER_04

Wilson, this is exactly what I was about to say. Just watching you glow in your passion right now, it's everything. This is where you're supposed to be right now, baby. This is where you're supposed to be right now. So, you know what? Listen, we know you got the acting chops. We know we've got all that, sweetheart. But right now, this is where you're supposed to be, baby. And I couldn't be more proud of you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, you know, I am a I'm a bit of an empath. Yeah, I am. I'm a huge empath myself. Right now. So then I I you will understand. It's been uh really hard to watch people be dragged out of their cars, to be dragged out of their homes, people who look like my mom and my father and my cousins, uh, people whose lives I understand on a on a very real level because they they mirror my own experience. Right. Um to see grandmothers crying and pleading for their children. It's just it has been heartwrenching and really difficult to to witness um and to feel helpless in.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Um but we're not though, because we're feeling fortunate. I know feeling helpless because we are empathic, yeah, but also because we're blessed to be able to have um a visibility um and an outreach of people who will listen to us, we can help make it better. Yes, you know, but it still doesn't take away from the hurt because I get it. I'm with you all day long on that.

SPEAKER_00

Truly, but you know, it's also like you know, uh I am an artist, right? And so when I don't have an outlet, yes. Um, so I I've been being creative in my own way. I did a little indie film last year uh uh where I played this man who's dying of cancer, and um I've I've been working with this theater company here in New York called The Tank, where I did a reading uh um during um Suicide Prevention Month uh called Right Before I Go, which was a collection of um suicide notes, which it sounds really poetic. Yeah, really beautiful. And we had like a um uh rotating cast of of actors who came in and read uh were part of the cast, and we might be going to do it in at Edinburgh in the Edinburgh. Oh my god, I love that. So they're being doing that. So I'm I'm you know, I I'm in the moment, and so now I'm I'm um developing this new play with uh the artistic director of the tank, Christine Henry, um, which is um reflecting current events, it's it uh not to say too much, but it kind of um is dealing with the radicalization of young white male evangelical Christians. Yes. Um and how we've lost them, right? Right. And so um it's been a challenging role for me because I I can't go into it, but it's just it's you know, I've had to like uh wrap my brain around certain elements of this that are really challenging. But um, so I'm interested, you know, we're we're gonna do that at the end of the month here in New York at the end of March. Um, but that's really where where I want to put my my creative energies until I find something that really speaks to me. And I think one of the other things I want to talk about today was, you know, artists are are feeling really weird too, right? At this moment, because so many of us worked on television and film for these studios. Yes, you know, who are a huge shift in. So now it's like, you know, many of us are asking us about if we work for these people, you know, are we complicitists? Exactly. You know, um, I worked five seasons on a on a show that I that is beloved and that means the world to me. It's Star Trek Discovery. And to see it now on this platform that has been taken over by you know the an oligarch. An oligarch. You know, one of Trump's oligarchs is been has been really hurtful.

SPEAKER_04

And so there's a conversation about involved like that. Right.

SPEAKER_00

So then there's a conversation about making a living and you know, um qualifying for your health insurance, which I am struggling to do at the moment, right? Yeah, because we have to pick and choose who we work for, and you know what I mean? Absolutely. So it's um it's an interesting time to be an artist, a working artist, and um making choices in this moment.

SPEAKER_04

But we've also never um, and I can say this because I know you both, we've never done things to step up a bit higher and sacrifice our morals. Yes, yeah, and you know, step and stepping on someone to do so. Or you knew somebody was shady or shisty and did it. No. And didn't warn. I would rather be um, I'd rather go without a little bit. Yes, I won't be hungry, but I'd rather go out with uh go out a little bit, go be without a little bit rather than ever, because I could never step forward with that. Just no one.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm gonna go out, I'm gonna go with go out, go without for a little bit. Um but also we also have to understand that the the culture that um these that that this new content is being created in is very different from the culture that it was being created in even two years ago. Because of the people who are now running it. So people, so actors uh who were enjoying in the industry the at least an effort uh in terms of diversity are not enjoying that uh practice at the moment, right? Because there are less uh opportunities for people of color, for especially for queer people of color, especially trans people of color. Um so the kinds of stories that we're telling, the content that's being created, who is getting to be who is getting to tell those stories, and who's being seen is very different than it was even two years ago. And and it's it's just harder.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. But I think in these moments in the past, what artists have done is to collect and create from the ground up. We collect and we and we create for us by us. Yes. And that can build.

SPEAKER_00

So one of the things that has inspired me, thank you, um, the most was is hearing Ryan Kugler talk about um sinners. And one of the things that he says that inspired me the most was when he said uh before he made as he was developing it, he said he wanted to make something that only he could make.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yes, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Because these were things that he was interested in. He was interested in vampires, he was interested in blues music, he was interested in race relations in in the South. And that on that point, on that point. He was interested in in religion, right? So all of these elements that he found interesting, he created something in order to tell to um to tell those stories. So it's instead of creating something that he thought was going to appeal to a mass audience, yes, he created something that was going to appeal to him, knowing that it was so universal because he enjoyed it so much that it would be enjoyed by the masses. And so now that's what I'm doing. I love that. I'm like burying myself in history, because that's what I do. Um I'm I there's another great book that I wish people would read, which is called Um War Against The War Against Puerto Rico, the war against all Puerto Ricans. And it's really the true history of the island um and its relationship to the United States. Um is it new or old? It's no, it's it's a it's at least 10 years old. Okay. But it's resurging in terms of its attention because people are more curious.

SPEAKER_02

Or interested.

SPEAKER_00

But it it really tells the story of Pedro Albiso Campos, who is um this revolutionary um who died in prison um trying to liberate Puerto Rico. So anyway, I know that name. I know that. Pedro Albisso Campos. He's kind of our George Washington. Yeah, yeah. But um, so you know, I've I'm I know, I don't know what it is that is going to be birthed from this that I'm burying myself in. What is passion, but I know that something is gonna come from it, and my job is just to stay open, yeah, um, and creative and active. Um, so if I'm gone, if I've disappeared a bit, people, you know, this is me just kind of like you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_02

Cocooning, and and and as you said, as an empath, you are you have no choice but to feel. Yeah, yeah. But on the other side of the coin, as an artist, you can convey that feeling that the outside world needs to see. Yeah, it needs to see how this is affecting us as people and how we connect with each other. And this is strengthening you to create from the bottom up something that cannot be taken away from us. Because at the moment when they sort of attacked again PBS. And they sort of succeeded in in a way that they didn't succeed like in the 80s when they went after um PBS and the arts um for Robert Maplethorpe. Oh, yeah, yeah, uh-huh. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

That was the same as hearing, I think, that um that um Mr. Rogers. Yes, yes, yes, that's right. That speech, if anyone's speech is heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02

So this I remember that we we already sort of know the building blocks and it it it is our time now to start to build for ourselves.

SPEAKER_00

Amen. And I think using the 250th anniversary of the independence of this country um as an opportunity to expand your knowledge. Um I think if we had had a different president, we would have a different kind of celebration. And I don't think that the celebration we're going to see is going to be for us.

SPEAKER_02

No, and so it doesn't have to be the WWE.

SPEAKER_00

So I'm asking people um to get curious. Yes, right? What is it about uh our history here in this country, whether it be you know the revolution or the civil war or uh the nadir or reconstruction, what part of our history is it that's interesting to you? And and go there, go read something about it, watch something of it, get curious, um, and then be inspired to be a part of that story because the story isn't over yet. That's right. Um we're writing it right now, we're going through a difficult time. Um, but this is the moment where we define where revolutions begin. It's in this moment, and so I feel like as an artist, my job is to feel what this is. Yes, um, as broken as it makes me feel on some days, and I'm being honest, I do feel broken so much. Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_02

We we all are, we are all feeling that sort of brokenness.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but how do we come out of it, honey, is with everything.

SPEAKER_00

But the answer to it is when someone like you calls and says, Hey, come to my show, I just want to have a talk. And I say, I don't have anything to talk about. I was like, come on, baby. Yeah. But you know, it's I know you needed it.

SPEAKER_04

It's about connection, it's about community. Absolutely. And I need it too. I know. So there's part of me that's being selfish as well because I'm with you. There's days, listen, I I know I'm the beacon of life to a lot of people, sweetheart. But guess what? Being the empathic, spiritual, shape-shifting witch that it is that I am, I have my times where I gotta reboot my browser because it's hard out here. It is, it's hard out here, and every day is a protest when we get up, especially our sisters who the noose is a little tighter on. But guess what, darling? You can't come for this. You cannot come for this, darling. We've been through worse.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And we'll go through worse, but we're gonna get better from this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

But I push myself and I know that it's important for me to understand the strength and this vulnerability that I feel from time to time to get up and persevere.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

I have no time to sit here and go through it. I'll have a moment here and there, but then I'm like, bitch, wake it up. Don't do this, don't fall down that vortex, and also keep yourself away from listening to the wrong things. Yes, that is very important. That is a whole other thing, right? That's a good conversation. I've changed that. I've changed that.

SPEAKER_00

It's a good conversation with the thing.

SPEAKER_04

I changed the algorithm on my YouTube and on my um um my uh IG because there's times where it just pulls you in, and I'm like, ah, a vacuum which is bringing me down.

SPEAKER_00

And also so much of it is manipulative, right? Yeah, absolutely. Um, is to control you, you know, to to soothe you during a moment when maybe you don't need to be soothed. You need to be you need to be out there in the store.

SPEAKER_04

And then there's other times where it's supposed to bring you in because what they're they have an amazing um master uh of um ceremonies to really get into people's heads and hearts and break them fucking down. That's what they're trying to do. But no, it's not because you see, especially these young kids, they're so resilient. Yes, and they are like, no, fuck this bullshit. I don't understand it. They don't want to and they don't need to, and guess what? They shouldn't.

SPEAKER_00

It is the one thing that I have really um that I know that I know I know this much to be true is that this generation and the one behind it um is is is powerful in a way that um we haven't experienced yet and as a youth culture, right? Yeah, because they're reinventing things. Yes, um, they're not taking our word for anything, um, and they've experienced so much in such a short amount of time that they're they're super aware of um how this government uh affects them and how this culture um is not necessarily in line with the politics, right? That there are two different realities in this country at the moment. Um, and I think they're aware of that. I think they're smart, um but I do think we have to be careful that um their education system is not poisoned to the point where they can't live up to their potential.

SPEAKER_04

We have to navigate them, yeah. Because they do have a and I might and remember, there's more of us than there are of them. And I mean of the people who, you know, listen, they're aging out. When you when you have uh a predator, when you've got um uh a smaller um animal that uh is being a prey, is what I mean to say, they get defensive and they try to do the most. They they like I said, starting all the little fires and all that stuff, but they know they know their time is taken.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think, you know, in the end, I just want us to um take care of each other. And I mean that I know it sounds very simple, but I think this is a time I want us to think back to the 90s a bit and about how um we came together as um as a unit, yeah. Yes, yeah, um, and really understood our place in history um and our and our power, yeah. Our ability to rile people up to understand narratives and culture that we have that ability to need us to take. We need to get back to basics that way. I agree with you completely. And it starts with how we stand up for each other, yes, right? How are you supporting organizations or people uh or families or community groups that are actually doing great work supporting a people in love?

SPEAKER_04

That is so true. It is so true because you can't just think that you're just showing up for oh, you know, I I I support, you know, this group over here, maybe no, it's all of us. Yeah. And it is all of us.

SPEAKER_00

One of the things that I one of the places that I really want us to focus in on are our LGBTQ centers. Absolutely. They're the best really because these kids and especially with these cuts in funding from the federal government, we're going to be seeing people who living with HIV and AIDS who are not going to have access to their drugs, and they're going to be looking to these centers. That's right. Who have been like, I thank you, Colin Lord, honey. Yes, Colin Lord. That's been amazing. Yeah. Yeah. The LALCU Center in Los Angeles. I mean, all over the all over the country. Yeah, yeah. Um you know, this is a time for us to be fortifying our community.

SPEAKER_02

Those uh those places. Because they do know, they they they do know if if they sort of erode sort of that those institutions, that there will be sort of a way for them to start radicalizing us. Because if they radicalize us, we will sort of do the fighting for them. Because that's a lot of what has been sort of happening, I feel, um, is that they're trying to radicalize and sort of gin everybody up to fight each other while they go to the bank.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, amen.

SPEAKER_00

Putting pitting us against each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um that divided. That is that is the ground of the ground of the game.

SPEAKER_00

That's that that's been the that's been what they're doing in the Latino community. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yes. Um you see it with the Cuban, you know, the conservative Cubans in Miami and Puerto Ricans in Orlando, and there's been no mistakes on any of that. And meanwhile, we're literally brothers and sisters. Exactly. Exactly. You can dissect you can't distinct, you can't distinguish a Puerto Rican from a Cuban or a Dominican Republican.

SPEAKER_04

Listen, at the end of the day, you're all Latin, you're all gonna get put in the back of the bus, honey.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I'm saying? Stick together. And they're literally coming after all of us, and they don't care if you have a passport or something. Exactly. They don't care. They grab you now, they don't care. Questions later, exactly.

SPEAKER_02

And and nobody, no, nobody is going, well, what about process of law? No, baby, there's two processes. Because it's them, it's not me. Listen, but they're coming for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, listen, they just had they just had um some student mariachi players at the White House performing at the end of the day. Isn't that just ironic? And they went home. This family went home. Now and ICE met them and took the kids to the Dilly Center, that that disgusting place where they have the the the Wilson. Are you fucking serious? No, they took them, they just Joaquin Castro had to go yesterday and get them released. Released. When was this? This was yesterday.

SPEAKER_04

God damn it.

SPEAKER_00

Every day.

SPEAKER_04

Every day. You were just up in my house, and now you're putting me up. Yes, you just played your little song for me. I can't. Thank you for the entertainment. Now, yeah. Wow. Getting the paddywack. Wow. I can't. That is some shows.

SPEAKER_02

Wow, that that that's ninth circle of hell.

SPEAKER_04

And it's I can't say I'm not surprised.

SPEAKER_00

And it's also not an accident. You know, right? Because it's a scare tactic. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, you can we we can welcome you in, but you know. Yeah. See you when you're talking about it. Don't get too comfortable. Yeah, it's just. Don't get too comfortable.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. God damn. Wilson, I need to tell you, sweetheart. Like when I told you when I reached out to you, sweetheart, one, I needed to see you because I missed your gorgeous face, but um, we I I knew when I heard in your voice and where you were, I was there literally a couple of days beforehand. I wasn't gonna get in with it to you when we were talking, but I knew that we would have this moment. And I knew that this conversation, which we have done in small increments, but I knew that this is what we needed, and I knew that we were gonna have with you today. And I want to thank you, brother. Well, I love you. I love you. And you call that I will always be there. And you have always been. Thank you. I'll never forget that time. Um I think was the last time we were together at the GLAAD awards or whatever, and you're getting the awards, and you're when you got your award, what was something?

SPEAKER_03

I was like, you're like this. You're like, first of all, let me give it up for my sense of lady.

SPEAKER_04

You don't remember before I even started to speak. Before I even start in that speech, though. That speech baby, you have got such a gift on so many levels, baby, but your power of that fucking pie hole is everything. Your pie hole and your brain, they just come together and they give you this delicious cherub that is before us. Well, I appreciate that. We love you.

SPEAKER_00

Mostly at home just going crazy by myself, so thank you for letting me come in. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_04

But we before we let you go, we gotta do a fishbowl with you. We gotta have a fishbowl moment or you haven't really been here. Okay. And by the way, I love your cherub.

unknown

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you. You look better on the floor.

SPEAKER_03

Oh.

SPEAKER_02

All right. Make sure you check that you have socks and understanding. Oh, no, no, shit. 30 years I haven't.

SPEAKER_04

Wilson, stop. It's not that kind of show.

SPEAKER_00

What'd you get? Oh, uh uh octopus? An octopus. You know, they're those, they're incredibly smart. The octopus. Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_03

You need to stop.

SPEAKER_04

Every time somebody gets this. That's my spirit animal. And also, too. That's my spirit animal.

SPEAKER_03

That's what I said.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Okay, what's she thinking? She says, irresistible candy from childhood.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. Oh, what's the case? Oh, real candy from irresistible candy from childhood.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, what what what is your yes? Um, mine was it still is. It's the whoppers. Oh, those whoppers. The malted chocolate. Yes, but the freezer, though? Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Um, mine would be chocolate kisses.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I've got some over there. I know. Um you're always sending off on your sign up, your send-off, chocolate kisses. Um, I used to love that Charleston chews. You put them in the freezer, break that motherfucker off, put up some ice cream. I mean, if I can indulge. Yes. Uh, those I think that would be the one. And also, um, I we've talked about this this on an episode. Um, uh, Neapolitan and some ice and a uh and uh and a soda, like a uh float? Yeah. Float. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Float. But you know what came to me after I said Whoppers was do they still make these? Remember the whatchamacallit?

SPEAKER_03

Oh!

SPEAKER_04

Bitch, those can get it. I love whatchamacallit. I scratch it. That was my first one, right? That's my first one. Crunch? But the fact that they called it a whatchamaca. And if anybody knows it. And if anybody knows me, do I always say whatchamacallit all the time? Yes, I do. I do. I do whatchamacallit. Like, it's because of that goddamn penguin, yes. Work. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Shaky, shaky, shake, shakey, shaky. Shaky like a salt shaker.

SPEAKER_04

Who that? Uh, that's a penguin. Is that a penguin? Yeah. Okay. A blue penguin. A blue penguin. Blue penguin. How would you know penguin? Uh, what band would you you know what I'm talking about. Uh what band would you hi mama? What band would you be the lead singer for? Ooh. Ooh. Wilson? Queen.

SPEAKER_03

What?

unknown

Queen.

SPEAKER_03

Who are you calling a queen?

SPEAKER_04

Work. Right. Move over. Work. Exactly. Work. That would be fierce. What about you, bitch? Um Rick James, bitch. I have a second Mary Jane. Mary Jane's a big chain.

SPEAKER_02

But I would like to be an IKET or um uh Bob Marley. Yeah, yeah, you look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Rita Marley. Rita Marley. What about the Pointer Sisters?

SPEAKER_05

Yes, yes, yes. Pointed sisters.

SPEAKER_04

The Pointed Sisters, bitch, automatic was my song, honey. I would say. I know they're a male group, but I get to be that token bitch. Because you know, the two of my favorite groups, um, would either be DePesh Mode or Led Zeppelin. Oh, yes. I would now I'm gonna go with I my sister Cherokee. She would definitely pick um uh uh Robert Plant.

SPEAKER_00

Oh yeah. I'm going to amend mine because um right after I said I thought I really should be the lead singer of DeBarge. What? Come on to the beat of the rhythm. Because we're growing up.

SPEAKER_04

Literally, they just called me Dabarge just because they were like the 24th Dabarge. I should have to 20, because there was like 25 of them, honey. I should like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. She's drunk, ladies and gentlemen. I'm drunk. Um a whale. Excuse me. Not a whale.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I've lost weight.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, wait. Grandmama, no. Who would you thank in your acceptance speech? Well, he did thank me. True, true, true, true, true. Well, who who um well um in this moment, what uh what will come from this moment that will be beautiful work when you accept the award from this moment and time of your journey. Yeah. Who would you thank in your acceptance speech?

SPEAKER_00

Beautiful. I mean, I will thank who I always thank in my acceptance speech because none of it is possible without them is my mother. Yeah, thank you. You know, who sat in a car while I went to acting classes and sat there for three hours in a parking lot every weekend is her day off.

SPEAKER_04

Unconditional fucking love, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, emptied up her credit cards just to get me. Pressure for her baby.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yes. And it paid off.

SPEAKER_00

So Iris. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It paid. Come on, Iris. That's a beautiful name, by the way.

SPEAKER_04

Come on, mama. She's a cousin of Edie Shakong, sure. I mean, literally growing up, I thought Edie Shakong was my mom.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, because I don't know why I knew that. Yes, honey, she was the real deal, honey. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

She's, you know, like Jennifer Lopez. I was if I were to say that's a prototype, hello. Yes. Remember from Jennifer at one point I was it was on some show, and they said, you know, Jennifer Lopez, uh one false move, and she's Charo.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, bitch! Oh that is fierce.

SPEAKER_00

But meanwhile, hello. Charo is a flamenco is a classically trained flamenco. That doesn't have a fear. She's fierce. Honey, don't sleep on Charo.

SPEAKER_04

Right, don't sleep. So that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02

Like, don't sleep on it. That's pretty good. It's a good thing. That's right. But but but I do. This is one time it could work for you, guru. Yeah. But I I I do think there's sort of this stigma um with her um being sort of like like, you know, the accent and and it being made of charo? Yeah, and it being made fun of.

SPEAKER_04

But they don't take her seriously.

SPEAKER_02

There were inroads and her talent and her persona's powerful.

SPEAKER_00

She chose, she also knew the power of the game. She knew the power played the game. She did. She played it fair. She played the game. She was like, Oh, you like my little voice, you think I'm cute, but guess what? Look what I can do. Exactly. And then she would literally shut down audience and they would be stunned. Done. Thank you. I've seen it.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you. She's no lie relaxer, honey. No. Oh, by the way, before we get ready to go, I knew that our sponsor would have to be um fresh this evening or this uh day because of Wilson. Because he makes me feel so fresh.

SPEAKER_02

I try. To do uh your acceptance speech.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, my acceptance speech. Sorry. Um, I was feeling fresh. Oh um, let me see. Um, who would I thank? Um, I would obviously thank my mother as well. I mean, my mother and my grandmother, as they have been my grandmother has been the matriarch of my family. Yes. Those two, hands down. The sacrifices. That's right, yes.

SPEAKER_00

That's right. I have literally been lifted up and supported by black and brown women my entire life. Preach on that. I would not be here for who I am without them.

SPEAKER_02

What about you, Blanche? Um, my mom. Yeah. And also Matthew Casting. Yes, Matthew. And Glymer Moore. Yeah. Yes. As I said before. Amen. And Patricia Fields. Yeah, hello, hello, yeah. Yes. That's fierce.

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And Philene's basement. No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03

Lomans. I was about to say Lomans. Lomans.

SPEAKER_02

I I I wake up some some morning. Wishing and thinking that's I know. It's not.

SPEAKER_04

I know. To go to that shooting apartment, I live for Lowman's. We need to do an episode just on Lowman's morning. I'm just saying. All right, y'all. We're here every Thursday. Like, subscribe. Thank you always. Blessings, love, and light. And to our amazing guest, Wilson, you're everything. We love you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much. Con, what you got, girl? I got some um chocolate kisses for my sugar dumplings. Oh. And some deuces, baby. Deuces! Freddy! Thank you, Wilson. Love you. Love you, Wilson.

SPEAKER_04

And you guys will have good links for uh Glisten, y'all. Yes. Support. We're here. We we got this. We are in this collective and this rainbow coalition together. I love you guys. Wilson, thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Stand strong, motherfuckers. Love you. Bye, y'all. Bye. Wilson! That was everything! Thank you. God damn you.

SPEAKER_04

Our show is produced by Josh Rosensbag and Matthew Green. Our gorgeous graphics are by Daryl Raymond. Our theme music is You Need It. Produced and written and performed by 808 Beach, John J.C. Carr, and Bill Coleman. Courtesy of Peace Biscuit. Our perfect production designer is Daryl Dickens. This season's hair has been done by the heavenly hair goddess herself, Mariah. Our very special thanks to Jason Canner for all your wonderful support. The cutting up is a Pride House Media production.