Laverne Cox on Trauma, Trans Youth & Legacy

Connie and Lina are back with Part 2 of their conversation with Laverne Cox, and from the jump we are talking about whether trauma is necessary for strength, the political fight over trans youth and puberty blockers, and the real harm of taking kids off medication. Laverne shares how she uses her lived experience in her acting, reflects on a cut monologue in a Keanu Reeves/Cameron Diaz film, and opens up about her Amazon Prime series Clean Slate.

The conversation expands into father wounds, therapy, reparenting the inner child, Black intergenerational trauma, post-traumatic slave syndrome, DEI debates, Black maternal mortality, and the ongoing attacks on trans communities.

They also honor friends and icons lost during COVID, talk legacy, sisterhood, dream careers, opera training, vintage fashion collecting, and hidden talents—ending with their reminder: Stay in the love.

Plus a stupid cackle. Ha! 

Click here to order Laverne’s book Transcendent: A Memoir

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-cutting-up-a-kiki-with-connie-lina/id1849020008

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/200MOk48TaLRPLQvzx2UK0?si=6499dd094f704a10

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Write to us at Kiki@TheCuttingUp.com

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“The Cutting Up: A Kiki with Connie & Lina” is a Pride House Media production.

Producers: Josh Rosenzweig & Matthew Breen.

Graphic Design by Daryl Raymond.

Original Music by 808 BEACH (John “J-C” Carr & Bill Coleman), courtesy of Peace Bisquit. 

 Production Design by Darryl Dickens. 

Our very special thanks to Jason Kanner for all your support.

Transcript

0:00

You're gonna get it, honey. Are you ready? It's time for the cutting of a Kiki with Connie and Lena. This is your backstage pass to all the dish trish. And that's the truth, Ruth. Come on now. Get into it. Hello, everybody. How are you Zoran? Alright, y'all. Thank you for the love that you've been giving us for this episode of the cutting up a Kiki with Connie and Lena. With this week's gorgeous guest, our sister ex Laverne Cox. Guess what? It was so juicy we had to make a do. So make sure you like, subscribe, and um we got you covered, baby. Alright, y'all. Have a great night. And I I think we're gonna have to start to sort of re-examine um the effects of uh of that and and the sort of trauma. Yeah. Is is the trauma needed to make you stronger? Or is it no or I I don't think so either. No. I don't I but because there's this debate about uh trans kids. Yeah. And I and I don't think you know, if if the time was different and you were growing up now, it would still be you and you would still be successful, and you would still be who you are and the artist that you are. Yes, yes, and and but the times would be different and there would probably be more support. I often think, what if I had access to puberty blockers? Could you this voice wouldn't be so deep? But then you know what? It wouldn't be. All of it's supposed to happen the way it's supposed to happen. I agree. I and I wouldn't change anything, but I also often think about how painful. Yeah, like I didn't even know anything about trans anything. Yeah, yeah, no. But puberty was traumatizing. Just because you had been praying about because pre-puberty we're like not that boys and girls aren't that difficult. Um the dip dysymphy separate between boys and girls a lot of the time. They look very much the same. Absolutely. And so the trauma of that. And so I think about like the kids who are being taken off their meds now, and like the trauma of that. But I I don't think we need trauma. I I do with without a test, there's no testimony. What it what's the beautiful thing is that I have things to make art from. I just shot a film, and you know, my I had a moment where the character had to break down. Usually my breakdowns get cut from films. We'll see if it says. Um, but I had to break down. The script says break down, and so I'm gonna break down. And I have things to draw from in my life as an artist to do that, and to like, so you have to live. You have to live to be an artist. And so I'm I'm grateful for that so I can give it to my art. And I'm used to doing that as opposed to just telling it like it really is that in the way that it happened to me. I'm like, usually it's it's all in the characters that I play, but now it's just like, oh, this is like this is where that comes in. I'm like, I'm just telling like that I let this man do this and did this to him. Um wait, what did I just watch the other day? Uh uh when you were in the boardroom and and introduced what was it? Oh, outcome. Oh god, I love that show. Thank you, thank you, thank you for watching it. The movie with Keanu Reeves. Keanu Reeves. I did a movie with Keanu Reeves. Oh my god, I love that. And that Bomer. I had so much fun. Yeah. There was actually, they cut, it was at the my I had a the character was a kid. She was a kid. She was a king. I it was originally, originally like a four or five-page monologue. They cut a lot of it out, and the words they got to say were so delicious. And they cut it, you know, a five-page monologue in the middle of a movie is a lot. Um, I had so much fun preparing her, and it was just so so great. And I love, thank God I get to still act and and and be challenged as an artist. Times are changing. Um, so I have to like adapt artistically. I've been very blessed that I've gotten to do, you know, corporate things on Netflix and ABC and CBS, and I got to host the Red Carpet for years with E. That's right, which was amazing. I think it's your other show, the the the one uh uh, because I really lived for the uh the the area where you in the uh love interest on your show. Um oh clean slave. Please think please think only one season they did in Renew West, and we we don't, I mean it was 2025, so who knows if it was political or not? That was the realization of a like a 15-year-long dream to like it was so I to co-create to co-create star in a show that I would as a vehicle for myself as an actress, my first scripted project that I produced. I mean, the the storyline of where you and your loved oh god, I was waiting rooting for that, honey. So many people were rooting for me. But let's sometimes they bring something back. So you know what? Maybe that's not the home where it was supposed to be. It was what was what was interesting about the pro, and we I write about it, I cleaned a lot of it up for the for the clean square. Um it the network came in and you know started doing a lot of stuff. Wait, was it Netflix or was it uh uh Amazon Prime? I can't remember. It was on Amazon Prime. Yeah, thank you. Half Hour Comedy, Amazon Prime, George Wallace Played My Daddy, come on, um, which was amazing. And it's because I never had a father that it got like so weird. Yeah, yeah. Because like wait, I'm getting a do-over. We got you know, it got so it got really weird at one point because it felt like a very dysfunctional relationship with my dad, but like I like he kind of started feeling like my father, like halfway through it, and it was just we it was weird because it was creepy because I was like, it was there was actually something very healing about it. And George is um, I don't want to George is just an amazing human being, and he's a legend and a comic legend, but he worked so hard, and I felt so to do for the drop dramatic parts of the show. And there was a moment in the in the last episode where I just cry in his lap, and I just was like it was yeah, it wasn't it wasn't it's sometimes it just not acting anymore. Sometimes it's just you um need um outlet because it's so funny. I think out of respect for years and years and years, um I remember I was studying with Susan Batson and um she was coaching. She was coaching Diddy for Raising in the Sun. And um I was um I spun the opening of that uh work. Um so she was coaching Diddy for Raising in the Sun, and um I was like at that by that time I was interning in her studio. So like I was um for free class, free acting classes. So I would come in and mop the floors, girl, and clean the toys, answer the phones, I did everything at her studio. And she was telling me about um, you know, he was having some struggles, some, some, some ish struggles with the father piece, because he never had a father. And um, I was like, I never had a father, it never affected me. And I said it with I believe and I believed it. I believed it in the core of my being. And then literally, like a year or so later, I was in therapy and I realized how abandoned I felt, how unwanted I felt, and that it had affected me. Holding that shit for so much. And I had been, but I part of it was out of respect for my mother because I didn't want to disrespect her. Yes. But it did affect me. Yes, absolutely. It did affect me, and we had so much of like my life as an artist, but didn't as a person trying to heal, is like telling the truth to myself about myself. And like so, and that takes time sometimes because you've bury things, you disassociated and break down. It is something it affected me. I felt I didn't I didn't feel wanted. And the one time you'll I'll you'll read about it, the one time I met him, the one time I met him, yeah. Anyway. Gotta read about that. I can't talk about that shit. So it's but the the the beauty of the beauty of life, the beauty of my life, the beauty of this Barbie is that it's never too late to have a happy childhood. Yeah. That uh there is still a child inside of me that is alive and well, that still needs parenting, that still needs attention, that still needs care, and the nervous system doesn't know if a trauma happened 20 years ago or if it's happening now. So the tricky thing about that is once you're triggered, you can like, you feel like you're 10 years old again. But also the good thing for acting and for just manifesting the life you want is that the nervous system also doesn't know if something good hasn't happened yet. Yeah, it's kind of a remote in a sense. So I can I can create the life I want for myself, and I have. Yeah, I have. And there is healing, I can reparent my inner child. Like, whatever, and I've and I've had so much forgiveness to my mother and and the sperm donor. They did the best they could with what they had. And my mom learning about my mother's story, so like you know, she terrorized me as a child, but like she had so much. She was doing the best that she could do. But there was so much trauma. My grandfather was raised on a plantation and was beaten. He was very abusive to my grandmother and to all of his children. But that's a vestige of slavery. Absolutely. And that's like who was going to therapy, you know, in like the 50s and black people. I don't understand that again. And we need, and I when I interviewed Dr. Joy DeGrue who um coined the term post-traumatic slave syndrome on my podcast, and she said when slaves were um enslaved people were emancipated, there wasn't a mass like mental health um um project to like deal with survive. Yeah, you got freedom hundreds of years, hundreds of years of dehumanization, of being cattle, literally. Thank you. Still resilient and terrible. How amazing, how amazing are we? Having a fucking picnic in the back with 20 people feeding them, giving them love. Yes still amazing doesn't mean we we don't need to do our work, doesn't mean we don't need to do our work and not carry that those vestiges of slavery forward, but in the face of all, black people are amazing. Bitch, what? It's it's like it's like superheroes. It's like it's like real life wakanda. I think it's because and because so many of us did not survive the middle passage. I think the ones, those of us who survived were like bitch, we're fighting. And and we're the descendants. And the middle passage. That and to build a nation. That's right. Thank you. Uh-huh. Build a nation. And that this is the same thing in the span of what 150, 250. Thank you. And create some of the best culture. Thank you. That people mock from every single day. And it's the same thing with trans women, honey. We are the same thing. Even though we're going through this little blip right now, we've got to go through this. But baby, you can't come for the strength. No. You can't come for the strength. Try all and you think we're the smaller margin, darling, because you think we're chumps, honey. But they're attacking us so ferociously and so fiercely because we are actually the solution. That's right. We are actually the answer. And they know this. And they know it and they're aware of it. And they think of us the conservatives. We know now, we we've always known. Yeah. But like Christian gnomes like Miss Byron, Hurning, like Ben. They only think of us as fetishists. They only think of us in a sexualized way. Totally. So when they see a trans woman, they think sexual fetish. Exactly. But that's them, that's not us. Exactly. It has nothing to do with us. Just because you fetishize us and you're going to porn hub, calling masturbating to trans porn, the second most search porn category of 2025, because trans women aren't watching trans porn. I don't know any trans women. Because these conservative men are watching trans porn and masturbating to us. Yep. Just because you think we're only about sex, that's your problem. It's not our problem, and you're trying to make it our problem. But we refuse. That's right. We refuse. That's right. Their trauma is a very good thing. All of it putting onto us so that they can live. But in order for them to live, they have to stand on top of you and on our necks to keep us. So sad. So sad. It's so sad. But also they don't come from where we came from. So it's so easy for them. Their life has been designed to take. Yeah. Ours has been to survive. So you think you can take from us, but equality feels like um oppression to them. Equality feels like oppression. And uh that RFK motherfucker was just wait, was asked about D E I, um Summer, the um Congresswoman from Pittsburgh, Summer Lee. Summer Lee was questioning him about maternal black maternal mortality rates. And how can you study black mortality um um um um maternal maternity rates if you have taken the word black out of every um research paper out of every government document, page five of Project 2025, by the way. We want to take all these words out of every piece of legislation policy. How can you take black out? And he's like, oh, we're doing really well with um maternal mortality, which is like, but for black, but for black people, but for black people, no, you're not. No, you're not. And then he's like, but DEI is so bad. It's like, wait, DEI has nothing to do with like it's it's like you have if we all know, we all know that black women die in childbirth more than anybody else. So we have to study that if we want these women to live. They don't but but the black woman, what what was what was the beginning of um so much of the medical research and um yeah, yeah, yeah, all of the uterus and and the reproductive or anesthesia being put open and I want to hear this experience. Are you trying to take that out because you feel guilty? Yeah, or and he was saying that DEI divides America. DEI he was it was just so ridiculous. Yeah, and it's like it's so silly, and it's the the be it's we have to fight this though. Absolutely we we can't bury our heads in the sand and think things are just gonna get better. No, we have this has to be fought at every single level. It's not of both sides, it's not a being together and not taking the news off being like, guess what, John? You don't get to put this news over me. I'm gonna rewind rewind this situation and I'm gonna put you on the news, honey. We're gonna do what talk of war. And that's what people are right now. People are fighting for it. But what black what what black people have never done, and what they've always been afraid that we would do with that when they emancipated us, they thought we would do to them what they did to us. But Cornel West always says that, like, in the face of the most demoralizing degradation, dehumanization, when people hated us, we taught the world how to love. Yes, we did. And we thought music. And and we can't, it's that's not the solution. Like, yeah, oppressing them is not the solution. No, no, and exactly. It was now. We never played that way. No, we don't know. And besides, if we did, honey, there'd be listen, very much where I spit no grass grows. We know the outcome if we went that route, and we won't. Anyway, it's time to shake the dice and steal the rice, honey. Yes. Thank you for this conversation. All of it, the beautiful roller coaster of emotions and places that that is real life and where we're all in. Thank you for being so open about this. And I cannot wait to hear and read this. Thank you for having me, and thank you both for living your lives in um the beautiful ways that you have that have inspired so many people. I know you both know this. Um been inspired. I mean me, I'm talking about me, but even beyond me, that there's just so when I got to New York and I had I had so much internalized transphobia, and then I saw, and and the internalized transphobia was about all these negative media representations. Then I met real life trans people, and I was just like, We're all we're we're the same. They're like we are like I was because I was this kid who was an artsy kid, and uh I went to the library, that was my hangout, and like there's a whole community, and you just you have no idea. You have no idea. What we can't wear a mascara on this show with you, honey. But just I'm so I'm trying not to. I'm so grateful. I know. I'm so grateful. Connie and I have had this conversation. We haven't publicly. No, no. And I just want you to know you I how much you've inspired me. You know how much you were. That means everything. You were, I mean, I love you both so much, and you just continue to keep on shining, sister, and being such a beautiful beacon of light. And and right now, we just need each other. Yeah, we do. We need each other, and it is so whenever I in this moment, whenever I'm in in in community, it is um it's everything. It is everything. And it gives me, it makes me know that we're gonna be okay. Yeah, and this is here and that there's been a path laced for me. There's been a path laced for me. That I there is no me without you. And um that is just I'm so grateful. I got to say this to Candace. There are so many people who I would not be here without. And so um thank you. And we hopefully will continue that for um generations to come. Yes, and and that, and that is what you are doing. That's that that you are you are building the generation to come with your example, and it's and and it's not just going to be trans kids, you are building children. It's been so it hasn't just been trans kids. I when I meet I meet so many kids who are trans who are straight, who are just in and it's yeah, um, it's wonderful. Well, trans people are often straight, but like non-LGBTQ, just kids who are it's really been wonderful. And um, and I those these are the things we have to remember that like we have to live our lives and not forget our humanity and each other's humanity. And so the exciting thing about putting out a book is that like us telling our stories is a way for us to rehumanize ourselves, and we Raquel Willis, um, um other so many other people have written books, so we need to engage trans people's voices because um you got watch watch the cutting up and the kiki, honey. I love it for so for the kiki for the cutting up and for some history, honey. Okay, wait, sister, we're gonna give you shape the dice. We give you flowers, but we're also giving you fish. We're always serving fish, honey. Hello. Okay, wait, wait, wait. I have a mix of my song beef the god. One of my songs that's like the 2 a.m. tilapia remix. Yes, yes, of course. Um, do you want do you ever put on music or a movie to make yourself cry? Absolutely not. Hello. To make myself cry. Why? No. Oh, I just have, I have, I have, I have. I just sometimes not to cry. I cry, I think because maybe because I'm an actor and I've just worked on my instrument. Like I am I'm an open womb the past couple years where I'm just like, Yeah, I'm crying all the time. I mean, I put on things now to make me laugh, to make me. I haven't in a while, but I have. I have. Yeah. Yeah, no. Sometimes I think that in my maturity, I I I there were there were times where you know I was like, like I said, I wanted to always be happy. In my maturity, I am in my feelings. I just had my birthday last week, so honey, happy belated. Thank you, goddess. I find myself wanting to have those moments where I'm like, I gotta put some Smiths on, honey. I just want to let go and cry and go through it. Some girls are bigger than others. You in a hard man. Please, please. Um, um, let me get what I'm wrong. Girl the Smith, everything. See what I mean? Yes. Neat is murder. Need his murder. Yes. So do you want to go? I'll check it for you, sister. Okay. Yeah, I mean, yeah, we have to feel our feelings. And I'm I I do that. Yeah. So I need, but I'm just I get it. I cry from the news. Oh, that'll be I have and lately it's a good thing. Girl, I guess you gotta tune out sometimes. You'll give yourself a breast moment punches every fucking single day. What's it say, sissy? My secret dream career is Laverne. My oh. This is for me. My secret dream career. Um, opera singer. Well, you're kind of checking them all out at the same time. I mean, like, I like I if I were only a better singer, like I need to be like, damn, you're puberty. I need to have a better ear. I know. I need to have a better ear, but like I love opera so much. And I tr I trained, I've been training actually. I know. This marks the 30th year with my voice teacher, Madame Ira Sift. What? Um Ira just turned 80. I hope he doesn't mind me saying this. But 1996, I went and started studying with Ira and started transitioning from a baritone to a soprano. I'm still a baritone, and then I have like a mezzo soprano, and and like, but like to really sing opera. Well, Mazletov's sister. Thank you. That would that that would be the fantasy. I just celebrated 30 years on my birthday of DJing. Crazy. 96 is when you started. I remember when you started, and it was one of those like how wonderful. Yeah, it's insane. Wonderful. And what a transition. It just makes so much sense. Like you were the you were one with the music. I wish people, I mean, there are videos that I wish people could you could have been there. You had to be there when you were carrying. Thank you. Carrying mama. The runway, the runway feelings. Okay. But she's kind. And I love the story. Can I say then and I think it was the first episode of this show when you talked about and people were saying that that Lena uh reminded them of you. Yes, yes, yes. I'm sure you heard that a lot, and you were like, uh-huh. And then you went to Sound Battery Bar, and then the lights went down, and you were like, Oh yeah. Talking about ears resolved. This is her. And I didn't, I never went to Boy Bar, and so I didn't get the full fantasy, their video, thank God. Yeah, yeah. And just a brief moment, Cody, Cody Ravioli, Cody Leon's Memorial. I had the pleasure of working with her at Lucky Changs and getting to know her. And you performed at the festivities. And I was like, I it was like it was like live, still doing a car wheel, and like splits, full splits, but but but but the elegance and the embodiment of the song, and it just was like, it was like we were like we're in the presence of legends. It was a legend. I was like, oh my god, this is like what a privilege to have this legendary moment. Can we also shout out Ari Gold? Oh no, yes, can we I didn't Ari Gold? But Ari Ari but Ari both passed in 2020. And I couldn't. I know we couldn't be there. It was Aries. Ari was one of Ari was one of my people. Ari was like, and he loved you. I know. That was my baby. He loved you so much. And 25 years, it's like weird to like to for somebody to be for we were always on the same page. Like that doesn't happen. Ari and Ari was like, and I and I I went to visit him in the hospital and we did these his podcast, his Kiki from the On Cancer Ward podcast. And then when he was and it was COVID, I know, I know. That gutted me. That and Sham, those two at the same time, of course, they had to go together. Yeah, of course, you know. I'm just like that was the one gag about COVID, is not being able to. I lost my grandmother, who was an opera singer during COVID. And the gag is that I didn't even know that I lost her during COVID. She was that's how your grandmother, the grandmother who was in Harlem. And I didn't find out until two years after COVID. It's self-wow, no one knew. Baby, that's how secretive she was. She never wanted anyone to ever tell you me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, and I'm like, so COVID was very shady, honey, to say the least. Damn, yeah. Damn. But they are now our angels. They certainly are. They are now our angels. And I feel like that's a good idea. Differently often, often. They were some powerful motherfuckers. I just need I just wanted to end your own. I'm so glad you did that, Sister. We are. That was that is my baby. I mean, I I hear them. I hear them. Always, always, yeah. I I I feel I feel their presence. And thank you for for coming and speaking at Cody's because I was running. I was running and I and I could not stop. But I stopped when I walked into the dressing room and I saw you, and I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. The girls are coming to honor her. Yeah. She is sending her. Off the right hand. And we are sending her with love. And so much love. I met Cody later, but I know you guys. You went later. We transitioned together. And it's um, God, that that kind of sisterhood. It's um yeah, it's rare. And it's everything. It is everything. It's everything. And so it's everything. Especially to come up with at that time because there weren't a lot of girls that you could do that with back in the day when we were coming up. You know, it was very, you know, and especially girls like us, and I say that with because we were very visible and we were like, you know, the darlings of the club industry, you know what I mean? The girls who, you know, were the sex workers, they had each other. There was more of a tribe with them, you know what I mean? There were very few of us, yeah, you know, to sort of connect with each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And what a what a blessing. Yeah. Um, what a blessing, Pat Field and Store. Yeah. Just the those communities. Anyway, I think. Thank you for mentioning that, sister. Um icon. Um our school girls of doom. Oh my god. Just chicken. Oh, I know. Just all of it. Just icons. Icons. Thank you, Laverne. So many icons. And these are the things that like it's names that people they need to hear, they need to hear to know, and they need to hear. I think we keep constantly hearing the same people over and over. Yes, but baby, let's speak about the ones you don't know about. The blueprint of a lot of these girls of how we all really got it. We would not be here without you. There's so many names that we don't have. And that we don't speak about. Yes, yes. I listen, not taking away from the Cynthia Rivera's and the and any of yes, goddesses and everything, but there's so many other and some that are still here. Yes. That we that that we don't give their flowers. Until after they're gone. Yeah. But anyway. Yeah, and this in that party of coming today was like you're those girls for. Thank you, sister. Thank you. And I'm so great. I'm just so grateful. There's another, there's another secret dream career is just a therapist. A very rich therapist, honey. I always thought I'd be a good therapist. Me too, actually. You got poker face, honey. Yeah. It's never too late. I mean, you can always go and get, you know, get your name. You like wearing the heart breath. Honey, one of our producers, honey. He's like this. He's like, she has uh, what is it, millennial face or whatever. We're watching this program uh together, whatever. What was that what she got Gen Z staires? I felt, but she does this look, and it's like, oh my god, and he clocked it and called out, say, Oh my god, it is the Gen Z staires. Every time I see her, that's all I can see is that stairs, she's like, It's so stupid. A therapist, I love that. Yeah, I love that. That's good, that's good. Yeah, I'll pay you. Okay. It's never too late. You can always go back to school and get to know. That's true, that's true. If you really want to, you know. That's right, yeah, exactly. It's never too late to do anything. Um what would what would my dream dream dream? Um secret dream career. Uh to uh um have a farm of dogs, which I will feel like I'm gonna have one day. I love dogs so much, they bring me so much joy. We're not deserving of these small, beautiful cherubs that are in our life. No judgment, the love they get, the shade they give. I mean, all of it. I live for it all. I love animals, but I love dogs. So I think that I would have something to do with, I don't know if it's veterinarian, because I don't wouldn't want to get all in like that, but I'd want to get into saving and helping and giving them a good life on a farm that I would own. And then you would probably, I mean, red skews probably that you definitely like Betty White. Excuse me. Yeah, absolutely. Newton spade, spade in your children. Spade and your body parker. Oh, that's a no, that's one, honey. I shake the rice, shake the dice. This is the last one, children of the corn. Ooh. Okay. Oh, secret talent. Oh, what did I get? Who is he? Is this a uh uh a seal? A seal. A seal. I think. I got a shark. Oh cutie pie. Would you give this a horse? Okay, yeah, uh secret talent. Laverne. Secret talent. Um, I kind of I don't know if I can talk about them in public. Give me those dangers. I'll give you my glasses for my dangers. I can't pop up. Um secret talent. Oh my god. I'm like, what do I do? I what do I do? Like now what's interesting at this stage of life because I've turned so much of the things that I'm passionate about into like jobs and work. Um but I lately with the collecting of um uh of vintage fashion, I love I love I love dressing mannequins. It's a weird thing. It's like they're big with the city. I love dressing mannequins and I've been styling myself, and I just have this every love for for like vintage clothes, and it's the history. It's like I love fashion, but like there's vintage clothes, and I've all I started thrifting when I was in middle school. Hello. But it's like the history of the clothes. Like we were talking about the demon, yeah, or this, you know, this blazer in um the Century Plaza show that you were in in 1992, um, which was which George Michael went to that show and asked Mr. Mugler to direct his um video for Too Funky. Yeah, um, so much the the history, all of that is in the um Tony uh um I'm sorry, um Antonio's tribute. There's so much history in um in vintage clothes that we can learn from as people and and as artists, we can grow, grow with and from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love beautiful. And it's nice. And I got to um donate a piece. I donated a piece to um, well, I loaned a piece to of mine of uh um breastplate from Mugler's um 1980 collection that Jerry Hall wore to FIT for their um for an exhibit there. Oh nice. And I was approached by another museum, but I was like, you need to pay me. Okay, hello. And plaque. Part of I don't know if I want a plaque. I don't know if I want a plaque for this this particular give me le choin. Oh, what am I I'm saying too much? Maybe you cut this out, bro. The devil wear footwear's product coming out. I don't I don't want to come in a file of um misting. That's good. What would yours, Con be? My secret talent. My secret talent. Bleed. You've used so many of them, which is so beautiful. The illustration, uh performance, the we need money. We did there are no secrets. We need money. I need shoes. Um makeup, hair. Um secret talent? Um cooking, I guess. Okay. Cooking. I don't cook. I don't do that. I don't like it. I don't cook it. Yeah. I just the cleanup afterwards, I just kind of can't get into it. But honestly, the the dressing of the mannequins is also therapeutic, putting outfits together. I have so many things this week. So Saturday, I spent like the whole day like trying to things on mannequins and putting looks together. And it's everything's wildly therapeutic. I do it all the time. Yeah. I live. Like I photograph all of my looks weeks in advance of what I know that I'm wearing. I take photos of it, and then they're there and they're set up. Wow. It's everything. It's very smart. Weeks in advance is good for you. Um I wonder if that would help with my insomnia. Well, that's thinking about looks. It absolutely would. I I get up and just start putting them together. Yeah, I'll just do it. I'll be in bed and I'll learning from Pat, I like doing a throwdown. When when you throw when you throw down, like, you know, the top and the and the pan. Yeah, and then you can switch out a throwdown. What a privilege to get to have worked with I mean Pat Field, Mugler. Like the legends, I mean Vivian Westwood, like the think of thinking of all the people, both of you were like And the people that you've worked with. Indeed, indeed. But Pat Field, Mr. Mugler designing pieces on your body. I I that just I'm a Muglerian, I'm a Mugler, Mr. Mugler of it all. Just I can't, I can't, I can't. He was fat, and he was like, I have to have Connie. I just I just die. That just makes me, I just die. Good stuff. I just die. Anyway. Oh wait. Do we talk about your secret talent? I like you ladies, I use a lot of my talents, so a lot of them aren't secrets, but there is probably one that I and it's funny because amongst a lot of close friends and family, whatever, know that you know, as I have been very sexually fluid in my um uh years of um, you know, fucking around. How do you just how do you describe sexual fluidity? Because I'm just uh it depends. It depends. Um for me, it's an energy, an essence, and then also to is it men, women, other trans people? Yes, it has all the above. Yeah, all the above, yeah. Work. So um I I have realized um because I was never really into fellatio, you know what I mean? It was kind of one of those things. I can't relate. I I was just like, eh, I mean, it was always always about people wanting to please me. And so I was kind of like I'm it that works too. You know what I mean? But I also, you know, I love feet, you know what I mean? So you know, I'm like that's a Jackie Six story that didn't make the book. I'll suck it. I'll tell you if you want to hear. I'll suck your feet before I suck your dick. You know what I mean? Interesting. I've then told you Do they have to have a certain kind of football? Absolutely. The arch, the the way the ship and the cleanliness part, then but what I'm saying though is that I guess are filthy still not is that I have found to the few because I have to feel like I have to have a very uh special connection with you in order to do Felatio. Interesting. And I've been told that I am like good at Felatio. And I'm like, well, that's because I like you. That's not everybody getting that. You know what I mean? I also think I believe with Felatio. I believe with Felatio that you must enjoy the penis to really be good at it. Yes. You must enjoy the penis to be really good at it. No, because there's at this point in my life, I have to like anybody to do anything. Absolutely. That's not always been the case. No, well, well, right. So I, you know, I I I've said, you know what? Okay. But it's I I I it's one of those things because, you know, there's so many other things that are important. But I I found that you know what? It's nice to learn things about yourself that you know you didn't know. And also, too, I I was I was yeah, all right, we're gonna end this thing. You guys, we want to tune in every Thursday. Like, subscribe. Laverne, I'd like to thank you so much for taking the time to come out. We want to leave on a high note, if you know what I mean. Oh, yeah, she was lady something. She was lady, girl. She got the lady ass. You guys sending you blessings, love, enlighten, always some brown sugar kisses. What you got, girl? I got some uh lovin' for my sugar dumplings and deuces, bitches. And since we got our sisters here, what you got for us, girl? What you gonna sign us off with? Stay in the motherfucking love. Amen. Stay in the love. And the passion will get you through. Thank you. People always ask me, how are you so confident? I'm gonna be confident. I'm not confident, I'm passionate. I'm passionate. There's a difference, yeah. Exactly. And I'm not um uh uh a pompous or conceited sweetheart. I'm secure. Yes, hi you Louis. We'll see you next Thursday, y'all. Laverne, we love you. Secure the fan sister. Hello, kittens, and thanks for watching part two of the cutting up's incredible interview with the fabulous Laverne Cox. Remember, like, comment, and subscribe on YouTube. We're also available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, and iHeartRadio. The Cutting Up is a five-house media production. We'll see you then. Sugar Dumplings produces. Our show is produced by Josh Rosensweig and Matthew Break. Our gorgeous graphics are by Daryl Raymond. Our theme music is You Need It, produced and written and performed by 808 Beach, John J.C. Carr, and Bill Coleman. Courtesy of Peace Biscuit. Our perfect production designer is Daryl Dickens. This season's hair has been done by the heavenly hair goddess herself, Mariah. Our very special thanks to Jason Canner for all your wonderful support. The cutting up is a Pride House Media production.