Rise, Recover, Thrive: How Scott Strode Is Redefining Addiction Recovery

Scott Strode is the founder of The Phoenix, a national sober active community that helps people recover from addiction through fitness, connection, and purpose. After struggling with alcohol and cocaine use in early adulthood, Scott got sober in 1997 and discovered that physical challenge and community were essential to his recovery. In 2006, he founded The Phoenix in Boulder, Colorado, creating a space where people in recovery could rebuild their lives together through movement and belonging. His memoir, Rise. Recover. Thrive., tells the story of his recovery and the movement he built to help others heal and thrive.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Thriving with Addiction Podcast, where we explore how recovery is not just about surviving, but about truly living. Each week we'll dive into the styles, stories, and strategies that help people and families heal from addiction and build healthier, more resilient lives. I'm your host, Dr. John Avery. Let's get started. I'm John Avery and welcome back to Thriving with Addiction. Today I'm joined by Scott Strode. Scott is the founder of the Phoenix, a national sober active community that helps people recover from addiction through fitness, connection, and purpose. After struggling with substance use in early adulthood, Scott got sober in 1997 and discovered that physical challenge and community were essential to his recovery. In 2006, he founded the Phoenix in Boulder, Colorado, creating a space where people in recovery could rebuild their lives together through movement and belonging. His memoir, Rise, Recover, Thrive, tells the story of his recovery and the movement he built to help others heal and thrive. Scott, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Hey, thanks for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

No, it's great, great to meet you. I was telling you before we started, I've heard so many good things about you. I can't believe this is the first time uh we're meeting. And I've seen you your organization help so many of my patients and other people I know in recovery.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Oh, that's that's good to hear. Yeah, we're we're uh trying to do our best to really change how our country is approaching addiction to one that focuses on empowerment and the intrinsic strength in people.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

One of the most magical moments of my clinical career was I was in Brooklyn with my family. Um we were, I think, at a soccer birthday party or something like that. I don't live in in Brooklyn, and we were making our way around, and I saw a group of people that had just exited, I think it was like a yoga class or a CrossFit um Phoenix uh class, and I saw two of my patients in that group. Um, one of them who had never benefited from 12-step work, and to see them, I think it was on a Saturday evening, you know, doing the good work. It's it's it speaks to how you guys are everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Oh, that's great to hear. Yeah, it's it's it's neat. As Phoenix has grown, even for me. Sometimes I'll be traveling for for work and I have my Phoenix shirt on, and somebody will see me at an airport, and they're like, hey man, where do you go to Phoenix? You know, and it's kind of neat to see. Um, you know, we're we're we're reaching a lot of people. We served over a million people.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

That's amazing. And I don't think you set out to create such a giant or organization. Uh tell tell me about your your story and and what led you to to this place.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, sure. So I mean, starting with my own story, I I experienced early childhood trauma, grew up around a father with untreated mental health struggles and uh stepfather with untreated alcoholism. And then my mom's ism was workaholism. She, you know, was super accomplished, which was inspiring and something, you know, she modeled for me, but um, but also had her outside of the home a lot as a kid. So I think as a kid, I was in these really dynamic uh environments trying to figure out who I needed to be to be loved. And and that created uh uh self-esteem wounds, honestly, that that I ended up pouring drugs and alcohol on trying to make it go away. Which, of course, you know, is a coping mechanism mechanism that fails you as quick as it starts. Um and finally found my way into a boxing gym, and something about getting in the ring for the first time gave me this belief in myself that started to kind of seep into other parts of my life, including what ultimately became my sobriety. Um, then I tried climbing, then I tried triathlon, then I was just off and running, literally. So that was the kind of foundation of my my recovery story.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Hmm. And tell me a little bit more about your parents. It sounds like that was that was complicated. I think your your dad had bipolar disorders, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

And and really struggled and Yeah, we were pretty sure it was bipolar. He may have had some other stuff sprinkled in there. Um but you know, for example, in a in a sort of a manic moment, he was a contractor and he decided he was going to tear out a wall in our house and build an addition, but then um, you know, a couple weeks later lost interest in it and was in a depressive state, and just we stapled up plastic over it. So we had, you know, literally three walls to our house and no no running water inside and limited heat. And and we were in rural Pennsylvania when we were with him. And and then my mom, it was a very different, you know, world. She was super accomplished and ended up becoming friends with three different presidents, and you know, it was just very, very different environments we went back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

How do you make sense of two very different worlds like that?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

It was it was tough, and I think, you know, the complicating factor was was alcohol, was a big part of the culture that she married into after my father. And so all the people I admired growing up stood around a keg of beer or a a liquor closet because a cabinet was too small um for her. And um so that's where I tried my first beer. And I was just wanted to sort of fit in with this group of folks, this new family that we surrounded ourselves with, and then I realized that that my peers were were interested in drinking and knew I knew where to get beer, and and that was kind of the beginning of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Okay. How how did that the drinking and and the use escalate over time?

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Um it was sort of tricky to to understand when it became destructive behavior. Because I think a lot of kids my age were experimenting with drugs and alcohol, but I started to realize that the sort of party would end and they would go home and I would keep using and with a small group of people sometimes that were pretty extreme in how they used, and then they would go home and I'd be using by myself. And then more and more I was just using by myself. Um and you know, I think substance use is so uh sort of insidious, it sort of starts to strip away the dreams of who you thought you could be, um, until you don't really recognize yourself when you see yourself in the mirror, and I had that that moment and uh wanted to make a change.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Okay. And things progressed over time. When was it that you finally decided to make a change or how did it come to be?

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, I I I think that sort of inside of all of us is this this drive um towards self-actualization. I mean we can unpack that more. Um but um this idea to to find purpose and meaning in our own life and and contribute to the world and to make it better, actually, in some way. And and I felt this drive to change. I knew what I was doing was leading me to a pretty dark place and didn't know how to get there, so I just kept trying new things and I saw this brochure for for ice climbing, and I thought that's the craziest thing I've ever seen. Maybe I'll sign up for a class. And I stayed sober Friday night to go climb on a Saturday, and I I just fell in love with it. I I felt challenged and I got to the top of the climb and I felt some accomplishment and I wanted to do it again, so I I saved up money and went the next week and I started saying staying sober on the weekends so I could get out and climb and and during the week I would drink and then I'd get sober. So I kind of had this harm reduction path. Um but then had, you know, one more dark night of use on top of a whole bunch of other ones that that stacked up and and um I was pretty sure that addiction was how my life was gonna end if I didn't make a change. Um and thinking of how that would impact my mom, who really was somebody I admired deeply, um broke my heart, and that was that was the last night I used.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Hmm. And that was how many years ago now?

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Uh 28 and change. Yeah, April 8th, it'll be 29 years, so um that's that's a while ago. Long enough that I have to think about what the date was.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

So that's good. Um and while it it feels like there was sort of a rock bottom or uh, you know, a couple of of or escalating moments that felt really um problematic. Um it wasn't 12-step work or therapy or diving in in the ways that people often dive into recovery that got you there. It sort of was gradual and then really was this focus on on fitness and belonging, engaging in the world in a different way.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, I think I was I don't I I wasn't didn't have this self-awareness at the time, but I I was surrounding myself with people who had a different vision for their life. You know, they wanted to climb mountains and they wanted to become better climbers and they wanted to become, you know, fight in the golden gloves uh as boxers or become a pro boxer. And so they were disciplined and focused in these sports and these activities. And, you know, I didn't have this language then, but I started to feel in my body that when I worked out, I could move my mind to a different place, to a better place than the mindset I had going into that workout. And that was sort of the early sort of um ember of what would later become the Phoenix, you know, this idea that move your body to move your mind. And if you surround yourself with people who who are there for you on the tough days, um, you can be there for them on the tough days, and that gives you a sense of community um that's actually lifting each other up.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Mm-hmm. And my sense was reading your story that it didn't come naturally. I I think you've I've heard you say at one point you were the guy drinking at the bar yelling at people who are running by, like, where are you going? What are you running from?

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

So it it it it you weren't sort of uh naturally inclined in some ways to do this, or were you?

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Oh no, not at all. I mean, I think I think when um sometimes it can be intimidating to get into fitness and these endurance sports or whatever these activities. But you got to remember every single one of those people who's out there doing it tied on running shoes for the first time. They tied into a climbing rope for the first time. And that really was was my journey too. Like I remember I I was in recovery at this point and I started training for a triathlon. I I, you know, was super focused, gone to the pool, gone out on my bike, and gone for runs. And I got to the race, and my friend said, Are you nervous? And I said, Yeah. And sh I said, How can you tell? And she's like, Oh, because you're putting on your wetsuit backwards, you know. So like zipping it up the front instead of the back. And and I started to realize that like, you know, I'm not very good at this, but I'm gonna keep trying and and something about that, um, even striving to be better, um gave me a sense of agency that I could um do hard things if I put my mind to it. And that that agency helped me too. And in, you know, when you'd go out with friends to dinner and the waiter would come around and try to upsell you on some booze, and I was in early recovery, I I wouldn't get a drink, you know, because I had that fortitude that I had forged on the climbing rope and across finish lines.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Hmm. And you talked about your childhood for a little bit, but there was a lot of trauma there, and and you mentioned sort of some difficult feelings that it left you with. Did you later tackle those with therapy?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, I I think this probably won't surprise you, you know, given your background, but for me, it it took a while for this to um come up to a place where I could acknowledge that even in recovery, my athletic pursuits were trying to fill that void in my self-esteem from those childhood wounds. You know, I I would finish a race and I'd feel empty inside, and I'd have to sign up for another race, and I'd have to sign up for a longer one, and then I raced Iron Man, and then I had to try to qualify for the world championships, and you know, every time I would finish or miss those goals, I would feel that emptiness again that I used to pour drugs and alcohol on. And and even starting Phoenix, I when I started the Phoenix, the nonprofit that I founded um with a great group of folks, I I I realized that I was trying to rescue people. And if I rescued enough people, I could convince myself that I had worth in this world. And and that was a big moment for me. I I had a a friend who was also my therapist who said, um, if people are drowning in the well, you don't jump in the well to save them, you pull up one or two people get the strength to come back the next day and help more. And that sort of reframed my work at Phoenix. And I thought it's it's time for me to do that deep work and go into that childhood stuff and see if I can find some peace there. And I did. I went to a uh a trauma immersion retreat that processed a lot of that pain from childhood and was able to kind of find this grace and love for my parents, knowing that they had been through their own challenges in their childhood, and feel like I had an opportunity to really interrupt that generational transmission of that trauma by having it end with me. And and I set out to to try to do that. It's not sort of a a box you check and then you're good. It's something that you have to be aware of triggers that you have, of of going into old emotional material, of personalizing things in in that emotional material, you know, having outsized reactions to stuff that other people aren't having big reactions to. But it's sort of a practice. It's sort of like getting better at triathlon on the bike or running. You you do it through repetition and and reinforcement of of the skills you want to develop. And and that's how I laid the foundation for my long-term recovery.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Mm-hmm. And there's so much wisdom in the way you went about it, because I think people at times, when they come to see someone like me, or when they're trying to enter recovery, they think they have to understand the why and make all their peace with all the trauma before they get into recovery. But but you can get into recovery first, and that then creates this situation where you can then understand why you drank and why you why you used.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, I I can tell you, um had my early recovery activities been um, you know, chess or coffee socials, I don't know if I would have stayed sober. The fact that I was smashing a heavy bag with my hands, you know, and still had an outlet that that, you know, is on that edge of sort of nurturing and self-destruction, you know, um it kind of stuck. I was, you know, I was young, I was in a city where there it's all college town here in Boston, and I I thought I was the only person that didn't drink. And so going to the boxing gym and smashing the heavy bag with my friends who were also boxers, you know, and we we built a little fellowship. Um some of them were in recovery, and sometimes that I think is what's special about the Phoenix is that the activities can be edgy and tough and and hard to accomplish. Um, but that might also be the hook that is keeping people here rather than than them being out in their addiction.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

And if I think of the two I saw that were at the at the Phoenix, one of them never liked 12-step work, the other was a big 12-step person. Um, what's the relationship for you in 12-step work or not, or or 12-step work in the Phoenix in your mind?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah, I think um for me in my own journey, I didn't connect with 12-step because it was pretty it was relatively early in like the young people in 12-step. You know, there weren't I didn't see a lot of folks that that were like me in those meetings and felt like it was a lot of old guys, you know, coming out of prison and and it just didn't feel like it clicked. Um but I went about six years later, I went back into the rooms and ended up working the steps, and it was really cathartic for me, and I had a great sponsor. Um, but we also have folks that come to Phoenix that have never been to 12-step and never go, and folks that it's a big part of their life, but coming to Phoenix opens up their world in a different way. And I think of it this way it's like there's a deep practice in the 12-step community of of doing self-work and thinking about how you're showing up in the world. Um, but then there's a next step of showing up in the world and being in it and being connected to it and active in that world. And I think that's really where Phoenix comes in. It's we we most often are like standing shoulder to shoulder, dreaming about what's possible in our recovery rather than talking about our addiction story.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

All right. Well, we're we've we've circled the Phoenix. Let's let's dive right in. Tell me about the origin story and and and all about you guys.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Yeah, so it's um, you know, just we had a climbing partner who was sober and another climbing partner who was a clinical social worker. And we we just were talking about how much climbing had changed our life, being out at the cliff, being in these beautiful places where you experience awe, you know, you you stand on on top of a cliff that you had just climbed, and you look down at the pine trees below you and the snow's falling, and and in that silence, you just feel at peace in the world and and all is is such a powerful sort of inoculation against um against addiction, I think, because it it it helps you find your place in the world. And uh we thought we need to share this with other people. And um I set out on like trying to figure out how to do that and came up with the the name. Originally we were called Phoenix Multisport, but we rebranded as the Phoenix. Um and just because the Phoenix story fits so well in the recovery community, uh, and we wanted it to be free, so it would just be people sharing a passion and love they have, which is climbing or biking or hiking. Our our roots were in physical activity, but that later turned into book clubs and art night and socials and meditation and a whole bunch of other things. Um and the only cost of admission was 48 hours of sobriety, and that's still true to this day. It's a free program. We do have an ethos that you have to adhere to that says we're here to lift each other up, not pull each other down. But with that simple framing, uh you can come to any Phoenix event and they're happening in every state in the country and uh thousands of thousands of them a week and virtually. Uh, and now we have volunteers who who lead them all over the country. Um, we also record those activities um and distribute them in prisons on on on t educational tablets. So we're you know, we're reaching you know three, four hundred thousand people a year now with Phoenix programs, and it all started with a a bike ride in North Boulder, Colorado, me waiting at a coffee shop hoping somebody would show up for my ride, and and uh indoor climbing night um hoping the same that somebody would show up sometime. And finally one guy did, and that turned into over a million people served by it.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

So it's incredible. When did you realize that Phoenix was becoming something much bigger? It seems so the focus so local at first, and before you know it, you're you're everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah, we we were trying to grow it everywhere, not because we wanted to build a huge nonprofit, because it's actually really hard to run and fund, um, but uh because the need was so great. I I kept hearing from people, you know, as the digital world expanded, I mean expanded. We started before Facebook even existed, but um, you started having more and more people reaching out through those channels saying, My loved ones are struggling, I wish you were here, I think you could help them. And we met an incredible group of funders who said, What if you could say yes to them starting Phoenix rather than you having to be everywhere? And we started empowering volunteers. And so somebody would reach out from a community and say, Hey, I'm a runner, I'd love to help. I lost my sister to this, and I can't help her, but I could help others, and boom, that becomes a Phoenix run. And then somebody else reaches out and wants to start a book club, and Phoenix starts in Detroit, and that's how it just started unfolding all across the country.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

And and if someone's interested in joining, tell us about the 48 hours sober rule or or how you guys navigate some of that.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah. I mean, it's 48 hours sober. It's an honor system. Um, I feel like if you're if you're lying about your 48 to be around happy sober people, you probably need to be here too. And um, and uh every now and then somebody will show up under the influence and we just sort of the the coach or the trainer or the the volunteer leader will often just sit with them and and encourage them to come back the next day. Um, but the ethos of Phoenix is the real magic, and it's just to create a physically and emotionally safe space that's inclusive and accessible. Um so you know, we're all welcome here and and we want to leave here lifted. And if others start believing in you in those early days of recovery, it helps you start believing in yourself. And that's exactly what happened for me in the boxing gym. And we just want to share that with others.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

And not just people struggling, but also their families.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah, yeah. We in we allow allies and supporters, and um, you know, I think about all the big movements that have happened in our country that have made a meaningful change. Um none of those movements are led solely by the people impacted by that issue. For us to really transform how we approach addiction and mental health in our country, it's gonna take all of us, all of us touched by it, not just people with lived experience, but the folks that love them, the civically minded people in communities, um, the people that are that are feeling the ripple of this in the say criminal legal system or the treatment space. It's gonna take all of us coming together and and approaching this in more of an empowerment way rather than seeing people struggling as folks to be managed.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

And what do you think surprises people most about recovery when they join the Phoenix?

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Um I guess like kind of how how actually joyous and fun it is to be in recovery. Um, I think that's why we're seeing sort of the sober curious movement emerging more. People are realizing that sometimes not drinking or using is is just a path to be able to like achieve your best and highest version of you. And um I I know when I quit smoking crack and drinking, binge drinking, I didn't think of myself on a path towards my highest and best self. I just didn't want to be in pain anymore. But but other people can jump in on a different point of that continuum, you know, and and um I see my friends who are business leaders who just stop drinking because they wanna they want to perform as best they can in their job. I see folks that just want to be really present and connected to their kids at this time in life. So they don't want to have three beers at night um when they're hanging out with their toddlers, you know. So um I've seen the profile of what it looks like to be in recovery shift over the years. And the beauty of Phoenix having that wide front door is everybody's welcome because we need all those folks to volunteer too to help us reach even more people.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

And you were telling me before we started there's more resources than ever. Tell us about the latest uh efforts from you guys.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, yeah. So this is really exciting. So, you know, I've got my new form shirt on, which is our our mobile app. Um, so if you go to newform.org, you can uh check it out. But basically, Newform is the app that we built to get Phoenix volunteers to connected to Phoenix members all across the country. And we started to realize that any nonprofit in the mental health and addiction space could use that infrastructure to reach their constituents, and the Phoenix community could find their services too. And in reverse, their folks could find Phoenix. And because when you're in recovery, like what you need at two days sober and ten years sober are different. What you need if you have co-occurring mental health and addiction is different than if you're just struggling with substance use. So to have all these services in one app, it really creates a marketplace of healing. And because the majority of those uh organizations have free programs, it's an incredible free resource.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

That's fantastic. And the app again is new form.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

A new form of digital community, and it's a place where we're here to lift each other up, not pull each other down. The same ethos applies.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Did your parents get to see you create all this and and enter this phase of your recovery in life?

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Um, my mom did. She she and I grew really close over the years and had a lot of healing together, you know, kind of working through some of that childhood stuff. And my father, unfortunately, you know, spent the bulk of his adult life um experiencing homelessness uh up in Montana. I tried to help him as I got into sobriety, but his his mental health declined over the years. Um but fortunately I got to speak with him before he passed and and just tell him how much I love him and um you know have that last conversation with him because uh what I learned later in reflecting on my relationship with him, he actually taught me about the outdoors, uh hunting, you know, in rural Pennsylvania and the beauty of nature, sitting there watching the sunrise over the duck blind and looking over the water. And um, some of the foundation of what became Phoenix came from um the beauty that he wove into my life, and I can see that now even past the tough times.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Hmm. That's beautiful and and sad and and it's nice to do it in somewhat in his memory, it sounds like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

It's it's um I think about that all the time, you know, now, um, because I have a different perspective. But when I see someone coming to Phoenix, I don't see them as their circumstance. I see them as all the possibility that's in them. And I think if we start to look at these really difficult challenges in our society um through that lens, on top of the idea that we can lift each other up, not pull each other down, I think it could help us even in this sort of cultural moment we're in as a country right now.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

And sounds like that's sort of the advice you would give if someone came who was feeling stuck or or hopeless to just engage and and have that hope.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah, engage, have that hope. But also as soon as they show up at Phoenix, they have a gift they can share with somebody else is they can hold the door open that they just walk through for the person that's behind them. Like they already have a way that they can give back um by supporting others that come behind them. And by giving back to others, you actually lift yourself too.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

And that's the thrive part of rise, recover, thrive, right? And I both like the word thrive, it turns out.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yeah, I think thriving and flourishing and um hope and connectedness, it's all these things are the real um solution to these issues. And uh it's great that you lift stuff like that up. And Phoenix certainly tries to do, and and um, you know, I tried to create a little bit of a playbook in Rise Recover Thrive for people to think about how they could do this in their own life.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Mm-hmm. And just a little more color on what life looks like for you these days. You're you're now a father, and tell me what recovery looks like almost thirty, thirty years later.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah. Um it's you know, it's it's uh incredible that now I have kids and um I get to give them a very different childhood than what I had. Um and just a quick example of that, when I my son was, you know, maybe three or so, he he was pondering something and I said, What are you thinking about? And he said, Dad uh, what's anger? And I started to tear up because I started to realize that what his understanding of anger and my understanding of anger at that age was so different. Um because of my sobriety, he had to ask me that question rather than having it modeled, you know. And um, so that's one of the gifts of recovery. It doesn't mean I'm parenting is easy and I'm great at it, so it just means that I have a different awareness. And the Phoenix, you know, has goals to expand into the UK and Canada this year. We have a documentary coming out called Sober. Um, so folks go to soberfilm.com, they can see the trailer and host screenings. Um the book is out. Uh, and you know, we're just trying to reach as many people as we can. Our next goal is to serve 10 million people in the next five years impacted by substance use.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

And the film is is about uh the Phoenix?

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Yeah, it's about our launch in LA. A documentarian came with us on that journey, and um it turned into this really beautiful piece about how uh we can lift each other up.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

That's wonderful. I have the book right here, Rise, Recover, Thrive. It's it's definitely a must-read. And for anyone struggling in sobriety, interested in exercise, or interested in all these other resources that you guys have, definitely check out the Phoenix. It's an incredible resource and very grateful for you, Scott, for for all the work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Well, thanks for having me on. Yeah, jump jump over to the phoenix.org, anybody that wants to volunteer and um help us grow this movement even bigger.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Well, thanks, Scott. I really appreciate you spending time with me today.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Thanks for listening to the Thriving with Addiction Podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, please follow and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast and share it with someone who might benefit. You can also connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube, or visit thrivingwithaddiction.com to learn more. Stay tuned for next week's episode and remember Thriving is possible.