Carrying the Story Forward: Tom Farley on Addiction, Family, and Healing

Tom Farley grew up in Madison, WI, and graduated from Georgetown University with a degree in Marketing. He began his career in banking and finance before running The Chris Farley Foundation (1999–2012), a nationally recognized nonprofit focused on substance abuse prevention. Through humor-based programs, he helped young people build communication skills and create supportive environments.

In 2008, Tom co-authored The Chris Farley Show, a New York Times bestseller about his late brother, comedian Chris Farley. He has appeared on The Today Show, Good Morning America, and Larry King Live to discuss addiction and recovery.

Now in recovery himself, Tom is a passionate advocate for mental health and addiction treatment. He works at Recovery.com, connecting people with the resources they need to heal. As a speaker, he shares his journey to break stigma, inspire hope, and foster connection. Tom lives in Madison, WI.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Thriving with Addiction Podcast, where we explore how recovery is not just about surviving, but about truly living. Each week we'll dive into the science, stories, and strategies that help people and families heal from addiction and build a healthier, more resilient lives. I'm your host, Dr. John Avery. Let's get started. I'm John Avery and welcome back to Thriving with Addiction. Today I'm joined by Tom Farley. Tom grew up in Madison, Wisconsin and graduated from Georgetown University with a degree in marketing. He began his career in banking and finance before running the Chris Farley Foundation, a nationally recognized nonprofit focused on substance use prevention. Through humor-based programs, he helped young people build communication skills and create supportive environments. In 2008, Tom co-authored The Chris Farley Show, a New York Times bestseller about his late brother, comedian Chris Farley. He has appeared on the Today Show, Good Morning America, and Larry King Live to discuss addiction and recovery. Now in recovery himself, Tom is a passionate advocate for mental health and addiction treatment. He works at recovery.com, connecting people with the resources they need to heal. As a speaker, he shares his journey to break stigma, inspire hope, and foster connection. Tom, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

That's me. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, John. This is good to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Ever since I started this podcast, many have said you've got to get Tom, Tom. No kidding. Yeah. You're old.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

It's good, probably because it's, you know, they know that it's mostly it's it's uh audio. You know, the if it was video, then like maybe you want to think about maybe having an avatar.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

I actually I should have told you before we started. This is on YouTube and video and and audio.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Okay, well, then I wore a nice bright sweater, and there we go.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

You're looking good, but I I think the reason beyond looks that they they wanted you to be here was your story touches so many different perspectives as it relates to addiction. You've experienced it as a family member, yeah, as a person, you've been on the prevention side, the treatment side, you've you've been through it all.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

And it's taken me a lifetime and my own journey to like hit on each one of those. It's not like I tackled them all at once. Um, first I started talking about, you know, losing somebody, you know, a loved one, and then my own recovery journey. And then like I'm now getting to the family thing and all that other stuff. Like it, it's still and and and you're right, everywhere I go and I you know go down a different lane, I find people that say, That's my story too. And gosh. And and what that creates is the connection I was looking for for my whole life. Finally, I I get it through telling our stories.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

So well, let's let's jump into that story. Start with uh growing up a Farley. What what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Oh man, it was Cass, uh, as you might it's so there were uh four boys. We we have an older sister, uh Barb, I think is her name. Um she hates the wine to that. Um but then there was me, Chris, and then Kevin and John. And yeah, we were yeah, uh just constantly and and I I blame my father. My father loved that he created this chaos. Like, look what I've done here, and he would whip us all, like he'd wind us all up, and my mom would have to like you know, just step in. But um yeah, so uh we, you know, for good and bad, we we we loved to laugh and we just enjoyed a typical Irish family, but you know, it eventually came uh you know, I I like to say like we checked three boxes growing up. We we had a uh a long family history with you know pro issues with alcohol. We were Irish and we lived in Wisconsin, so like we only needed to really check one of those boxes to end up where we did. But but the thing is we thought it was our uh it was our identity. You know, if you were a far you drank. You know, if you're Irish, we you're supposed to drink. And if you live in Wisconsin, I I think pretty much everyone that gets out of the bag, everyone knows what goes on here. Um but it was normative. We just thought, like, this is what you do, and it wasn't until well, I mean, when I started go and went away to college, you know, out uh to uh to Georgetown uh surrounded by all these really you know hyper uh overachievers, uh, you know, and I felt, you know, I don't belong here. And so I leaned back on my like, but I can be this great happy fun ball and you know, uh just be this Wisconsin Irish guy. And uh but I didn't think I stuck out doing that, but boy, I'm I've been told I I did.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

And growing up with that family with a lot of drinking everywhere, did anyone was anyone concerned about the drinking back then? Did you guys talk about drinking? We just assumed that was what you guys did.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, yeah, as long as we're on our surface we're happy and you know, making, you know, um I I you know, so you know, even if masks our our weight issues, you know, we all you know, my father was was very big. And the the coping mechanism that the drinking gave us, you know, uh let us mask all that. And and you know, that I talk about a lot how that coping mechanism of humor turned into trauma because we we didn't know how to deal with anything else on another other emotional level. Everything was just funny. So we uh yeah, I I guess uh you know, the first one when I mean everyone i the whole you know, the whole you know the whole you know group, it was just bad. My mom was like pint size and she was trying to keep up with my father who you know just he he could have you know a whole fifth of Scotch and never show it because it was so big. And and my but my mom like it definitely showed it. And so when Chris, I think when he started to show signs of some a little bit more acute issues, she was the first one in our family to get sober. And she's been sober over almost 40 years now, and um but but but approaching it not for her own drinking issues, but like you know, as a mother would, like uh, you know, I gotta try and save this family, or at least one this one that's that's really having problems. So I'm gonna stop. And you know, and she's done that, you know. Uh she she went to the rooms first and then what she didn't like that, but she went to Al Anon and she really connected there. You know, again, easier to talk about other people's issues than her own. And again, she's been sober all this year. She's you know, now that's sobriety is her only thing, but um, yeah, it it she's been it finally took me years to see what an inspiration that that was.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

But it was Chris, it was Chris's substance use that's sort of started ringing the alarm bells first in in the family.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah, it's funny, you know, even though we were, you know, I had to take an extra year of college and mostly because of, you know, the the effects that drinking had on my grades. Um, you know, Chris almost didn't make it out of college, he did. Uh and everyone kind of, you know, had these signs. We all had uh, you know, at least one uh DWI, you know, in high school, and but that wasn't enough. It really was when you know, I have to say it when when it was more than us individually could you know uh it was when Chris started uh really that you know there was more at at stake because you know he bec started becoming a celebrity and like then it really wasn't so much oh he's he's gonna ruin his career. It's like oh my gosh, now everyone's looking at us, or at least him, and we've gotta do something about that. Like when when it was just us as a family, I mean we're we can kind of manipulate the narrative as as Irish people, like we really could really create the story, and that worked. But then it was Chris, it was different. Then it was it was uh mic the uh the microscope got really focused on him, and I'm like, all right, we gotta do something, but we we didn't know what that was.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

In some ways, his celebrity highlighted his if he had been sort of insulated in the family, it might have been recognized, but that he was so out there people began to notice and talk and and that sort of spurred. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah, totally. Um and even on the flip side, when it like his last three years on SNL, when he actually finally went through his fourth stint at rehab, it went to came out of Hazleton for the second time. And instead of going to his big apartment on the upper west side, he went to his to a sober living house that Hazleton had on the lower east side and um working his program on TV every Saturday night, but making this bet every morning. And and I was in New York watching this like you know, I just all of a sudden his talent just in his career just exploded. And I'm like, but he's doing the same stuff, so what is it? I didn't know what it was, you know, but it was his his recovery more than anything that really kind of jumpstarted like this this this this this trajectory that that unfortunately he lost when he when he when he m moved to LA and really became a commodity and people were making money when only when he made money and he lost that connection and that fellowship. And you know, we can go into that story, but but it was but but but really kind of uh yeah, it was it was amazing to see that, uh even though I didn't know what I was saying.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Hmm. And so it sounds like as a family, your your mom decided to tackle his struggles by getting sober herself and trying to lead that charge and going to Al-Anon. How about you and and his siblings? How did you guys manage both his fame and also his substance use as it as it escalated?

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Well, we always you know we were always a billy, we always uh uh managed his fame by you know by like he's no he's just a little funnier than the rest of us, that's all. Yeah, it's like we we it it it's kind of like because it was humor and because our family was so steeped in it, it's like you know, it just we were just fairly it was still always the the beautiful thing about Chris was that he was always Chris. So every character we saw, we saw our brother or our you know, our you know, our our family member, you know, that's just Chris. You know, so uh we were very proud, but you know, we didn't go overboard with it didn't change us, you know. You know, Chris used to call me in the uh you know, when I was from the uh the upper east side and he's like, uh um you come to the show? And I'm like, Well, who's playing? And he's like, I'm playing. I'm like, oh yeah, I that's right. He goes, forget, you can't come. You know, but uh because it's like, you know, let's go. So anyway, uh you know, but I gotta say, like when when he when he passed away, I think it was a wake-up call, certainly for my father, who thought he could first of all he thought it was like, well, I've g I could manage my drinking, why can't he? It's like dad, we'll we'll way beyond drinking. He didn't get that. And when Chris died, and my dad realized that he he couldn't have saved him. That was sad. And he he didn't didn't he he he died a year later. He was so but for me, I that that grief and pain was so much I did something very unlike me as a you know uh uh Irish person, Wisconsin person, I like I instead of bearing that, I I had to talk about it. And so I went out and started talking, telling Chris's story, you know. And I would have years of sobriety because I would tell myself, like, well, maybe I shouldn't drink either, because I was causing train wrecks and you know issues in my own life. So I said, like, well maybe I uh you know, if that's what that's i if we if if if we as far as shouldn't be drinking, then I won't. And yet I didn't see that either the the train acts didn't stop, you know, and or I would put five years of ride together only to like have it all go away by some stress in my life that got overwhelming, or positively like I would I remember being at a um uh at an Irish fest on St. Patrick's Day up in where we ended up living in Fairfield, Connecticut, and saying to myself, Well, I I could have one Guinness, everyone's having some I've been sober five years, I can handle this. And next thing I know, I'm I'm I'm back on a you know, a much longer d span of drinking uh and to a higher degree than I ever was before. And I didn't get it, and I just would have this roller coaster and do that a couple times. I got tired of drinking and and you would tell yourself what?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

So this is after after he passed, you started to run this foundation, you started to talk to kids about substance use, you wrote the book, but during that time you were actively struggling with drinking on and off and not sure what to make of it exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

It's yeah, I thought I was doing the hardest thing in the world by not drinking, and yet this was and and here's another thing. I would go into meetings, I would go into AA meetings during those times, and it was just like it was at home. I could always point to somebody on the side of the room sharing and go, Well, that guy drinks more than me. That person over there takes drugs and they drink like I don't belong here. We did the same thing with Chris. We would point be, you know, we would point to him and say, Well, we're not that bad. And yet we were, but we we didn't want to be honest about our own issues. We thought addressing Chris's issues meant we had to address ours, which obviously, but that we didn't want to go there. So it was so and I think it's true for a lot of families, we just made it Chris's problem. Not our problem. He's got the worst thing. And so uh, you know, we really this you know tight-knit, loving, humor-filled family unit ended up pushing and isolating and Chris away like because he's got a problem, and we don't. And boy, I bet I'm sure that message was loud and clear to Chris.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

When you know when you look back at it, but it's tricky because he was both the celebrity and the one with the identified problem. So that's he was probably felt isolated in a in a couple in in every area there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

I I mean I I I distinctly remember a Christmas Eve when we all gathered, as we did on Christmas Eve, opened our presents, a lot of you know, brandies, beer, and weeders, all this fun, the music, and and I I vividly remember like there was Chris, he had just gotten out of Hazleton, and he was sitting there amongst all of us doing what we always did, with his mug of coffee, just trying to be sober. And we were like, Well, that's you know, it had nothing to do with us, we're gonna continue to do what we did. That that uh that's kind of a painful memory, you know.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

And it seems like for for your dad, it really it really crushed him that year after he after Chris passed, huh?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah. Yeah, he he just didn't again because uh you know Yeah, he didn't because it it forced you you know, i it it really was I think we all understood it's like it's not the drinking, it's what's the what's the underlying trauma? You know, what what what what fed all of this? What was Chris struggling with that that that that my father as his dad like why what did I miss? Was my son that I like he was in pain and I missed that? Or even worse, like did I cause some of the trauma? Was some of the trauma like, you know, did I was I involved in that? That was painful too. And like it all just kind of hit at once. And I think that was kind of that was I know that was hard for him.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Hmm. And then for you, it took a d a different path, though. We tried to go out and do good work in his name, all at the same time trying to make peace with our own drinking. Well, when did you finally decide to enter recovery yourself? What was the turning point there?

SPEAKER_01 16:44

So it was about a little over seven, seven years ago. And when I moved back to Wisconsin, I started to work with uh a fr a friend of mine. I they said somebody said, Oh, you gotta work with Shelly. She has these teen IOPs and these I loved working with teens because that you know Chris's story kind of resonated. And what I was doing was uh I borrowed from my brothers who all learned improv at Second City. I'm like, uh I don't want to educate people, uh there's enough of that out there, but like what's a tool? And for me, improv was this connection and communication, you know, skill building that. And so I would go in these teen IOPs and I told this woman who was running these this clinic, I go, You you've got all these teens from four different high schools and different grades and different genders, and you're asking them to share. Like, how's that going? Let me come in and do some improv and build trust, build acceptance, get bring some humor into this. Give me, give me, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and I'll be gone. And every time she said it, like, after you left, the the discussion was so much more like genuine and and honest. And and so I kept doing that. So and then I lost touch with this woman. And then, as I said, seven years ago, I had this period of like I like what I was doing wasn't smart. I would like, if it's all right, it's 9 30. If I can leave, if I leave this party now, I can get home, you know, even though I that started that horse is already out of the barn. And then I'd have to plot my way home to avoid detection. And then I would get home, I'm like, it's only 9 30, you know, nights are over, and I would open the cabinet and by myself, and and I'm like, and then the next morning, just every morning, just run for the aspirin. I'm like, this is insane. I was smart enough to know, like, this isn't sustainable, this isn't helping at all. And then my friend Shelly called me up out of the blue, and she said, Um, so I said, like, I did what I only thing I knew how to do was to stop. And then Shelly called me up, she goes, I'm like, how are you doing? I haven't talked to you. And like, very proudly tell her, like, I, you know what, I'm doing great. I haven't had a drink in four months, expecting a lot more pause than I got. Um, and she's like, Great, uh, let's have coffee. And I said, Yeah, I'd love to have coffee. And she goes, Great. Meet me Saturday morning, nine o'clock in the basement of the Presbyterian church. She's like, ah, damn it. Like, I know where this is going, but like, but this is the this woman who I know and watch and so helps so many people in our community. How do you say no to this person? And so it was really my my first higher power that I surrendered to. I'm like, okay, I'll go. And it took me a while, you know. I I, you know, walking into a room, you know, for a Farley, it wasn't a room, it was an audience. You know, I got attention and I I and I started to do that and not getting, you know, laughter. People were like, you know, just accepting, you're like, okay, yeah. When you're ready, you're ready. And and all of a sudden, instead of hearing how much people were drinking across the room, I started hearing, oh my gosh, I have had um broken relationships like that person. I've had job loss like that person. I was like, I you know, I started to realize that this isn't about drinking. I just can't drink. If I want to work on all the stuff that they're talking about, rigorous honesty and and gratitude. And if I want to you know get those into my life, the only thing I need to do is I need the the clarity of sobriety to to work on all that stuff. And once I shifted focus to that, it never it stopped being about drinking at all. I don't think about drinking at all anymore. I I I I I I the craving I get is this feeling like, oh my gosh, this is how I'm supposed to feel as a human. I need more, give me more. Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

That's a powerful moment in a and a transition uh for you. It seems like that really changed everything to suddenly instead of viewing it as other, viewing it as your your thing and and seeing the benefits.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

And and here's the thing like most of my life I was putting this person out to the world that I thought they wanted me to be, that I needed to be, all this, all this expectations. And so to be that person, I you know, I I needed everyone around me to do certain things so I could be that person. I needed my my wife, now ex-wife, obviously, kidding, my wife and kids to act a certain way so I could be that person. I needed my employer to give me that job, not the one I have. I I need this one so I can be this person. And, you know, that took a lot, not only did it take a lot of effort, but when you start to require people to act a certain way so that you can be a certain person that you want to be, in this this connection that you want and need as a human uh doesn't happen. You end up pushing people away. And that's what I I'm like that's all I wanted was connection. And why am I why are Why am I pushing people away? Um and as soon as I started focusing on what I can control and you know uh be you know trusting myself, you know, showing that I trust in myself and and letting people live their lives, you know, and just concentrating myself, all of a sudden people came back to me and I got I started getting that connection that I always struggled with. I'm like, what's going on here? Like I'm not I'm not even you know working on that, and I'm I'm getting it.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

And you you almost didn't have to be funny anymore in a way. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Well, you know, it's funny. When I was putting out this person, I thought I was going to be and that that person initially started to like, you know, I'm I'm my father's son, so he went to Georgetown. I had to go to Georgetown. Um, you know, I had to, you know, I had to be this, you know, um this this you know uh captain of industry, I had to be have all I had to have this great family life and all this kind of stuff. That was hard to maintain as itself. But then on top of that, years later, then I became somebody's brother. And I had to be that. And I don't know how I dug myself out of it. I mean, I I couldn't have if you know without recovery. So I mean, um, but but those two things talk about being lost. Like, where who is my authentic self? Like, no idea, because I had put so much effort in being these people.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

And it's tricky because you get rewards for being those other people sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

You know, I I and I I started to say this about myself, and I realized, oh, this is totally what Chris was going through as well. It's like this anecdote where I could be in the middle of a room, let's be honest, about bar. I could be in the middle of a bar, surrounded by people, center of attention, making everyone laugh. And this was a real common occurrence for me and Chris. All of this, getting all this attention, getting all this reaction, but why am I feeling the way I do? Like I'm I'm I'm giving them this, but they're not seeing me. Like I that's not me. And the only way I knew how to deal with that hollow feeling was to numb it, to drown it. You know, it's like if this is what the world wants of me to be that person, okay, I I but I gotta, I gotta, I gotta numb it. Because that's a horrible feeling. And all of a s you know, all of a sudden, you know, and and that's my barometer now. Like when I I still like to be out in social, but when I find myself performing or being somebody's brother, and and there's so much stimulation to do that. People are always like, oh, I love your brother, like, you know, uh be funny, you know, you're a furly. Oh, yeah, it it hurts it it it it doesn't help to be the least funny in the entire family, but that's that's I've embraced it. You know, all my all my brothers are comedians are like, oh, be funny. I'm like, you know, can I just be myself? You know, and and and if it gets too much, or if I find myself, you know, biting at that, you know, and and going down the road, I leave. I uh like I I know what I gotta do. Especially now in recovery, I know like, all right, dude, that was close. You've got to call somebody or go to a meeting or uh pick up the big book or something, but I it's I have those tools, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

And so over these last seven years, uh you've maintained your recovery mainly by 12-step, or were there other things that that you tackled in recovery?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Well, I mean, certainly for me it's 12-step, and and you know, again, to my earlier point of what I want to work at, like, you know, I've you know, if I gotta go into the rooms and say I'm Tom an alcoholic, I mean, do I truly believe I'm an alcoholic? No, I'm not here for that. I'm here for all the I'm here to hear people, you know, be vulnerable and rigorously honest and and and remind me how what what it what gratitude is. And I I'm there for that, not like I've got this you know disease, which like I do, but I like I want to focus on these other things. So but I don't know any other, you know, uh program out there that that allows me to get all this other stuff. I'm an alcoholic. I mean I am, obviously, but the focus for me is on these other things, and I um and I on top of everything, like there's nothing more humbling than to be in a church basement with people that you used to like you know, cross the street to avoid, and now like I I feel so much more belonging with this group in this basement than I ever did anywhere else in my in my in my life. So I I you know I I get that. I I feel more connected and belonging, you know. So yeah, tall step is for me, but I also love being now that I'm used that my you know lived experience to go out and help people and not just with my advocacy, but now where I work at recovery.com, I am immersed in this whole addiction uh treatment and recovery kind of space. And I see all kinds of all pathways, and that that's that that's a program in and of itself. I mean, I I I feel blessed that uh like I I don't know whether I'm doing this for me, for others, for my work. I'm like, I'm just doing this, and it feels so amazing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

So and so for all these experiences you've had, what what do you recommend now to families who are seeing a loved one struggle or you know, maybe even wondering about themselves when they see have someone that's the identified patient, but they're they they haven't really you know been able to look in yet. I mean, how how do you counsel families these days?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Uh yeah, and I'm actually going on a uh a tour now. I just was in Richmond last week. I'll I'll be in Nashville next week with my colleague uh Cheroline Pidler, who just wrote a book on loving someone in recovery, and it's all about these issues. That again, I I'm just starting to deal with them. I like realize like uh like I got stories to tell for the fan, but I had never told them before, like about my family. But one of the things is, you know, a couple things. Like, first of all, don't keep that person in isolation. They're already there. Don't push them away because you're fearful about being honest about your stuff. You know, like vulnerability is is uncomfortable and painful initially, but I but it you know, it opens itself up to this wonderful connection and uh you know, just all these other things. It doesn't last forever. Vulnerability just opens the door to you know everything from um you know all aspects of healing. And so so don't isolate somebody, be vulnerable enough to like, you know, keep them, you know, in this, you know, this this first little ensemble that we have as our family. But I also tell parents, and I I fell victim to this too with my three kids, um, you know, as parents, we're wired to solve things. You know, we just need to solve things, especially, you know, um fathers, you know, like we gotta solve things. And I I first of all, I tell people like, you don't even like how, first of all, you're solving things based on your life experience. It's like, well, I've smoked a little weed. It's like that's not what they're doing. Like, this is a different animal altogether. Like your your your weed that was grown in the ground is not the same as this your kid's weed that he's getting from a lab. So, you know, you don't have the life experience even to solve the things. But also, you know, you avoided your own, you know, you you you're you're you buried your own isolation and you've you kind of live with that. Like, don't do that with your kid. Like, meet them where they are, just just understand and listen and just you know keep them in the fold. Don't don't push them out. So don't try and solve the problem and tr and keep them. But also uh here's one thing I you know that I learned in the rooms when I when I was first somebody said, Well, in recovery, yeah, well, do a gratitude journal. And I'm like, heck's that. I don't know. I mean, and I I remember like looking at his page, blank page for like a half hour with a graduate on the top. I was supposed to list things, and I'm like it was blank, and I'm like, really nothing? And I was you know, the easy stuff. I'm grateful for my family, I'm grateful for I get to live in this beautiful city of Wisconsin. But I was realizing I was missing all these things that happened during the day I could be grateful for that that that changed the way I feel. You know, uh now I'll I'll walk down a sidewalk and see a root come across, you know, an overgrown route, and I'll avoid it and I'll be grateful that I didn't trip over that like I would have. Like I don't trip anymore. I fall. I straight into fall. So I'm like, I'm grateful with that. I'm like, and I and it changed and I'm I'm I'm I'm aware of how that changes me. And I if I can do that multiple times, that's amazing. But I didn't do that with my own family and my own kids, that that gratitude. Like, you know, I I want to stay on the safe, easy stuff, but like the little stupid stuff, like what are you grateful for? And then you it opens the doorway to understanding, like, they're grateful for that little thing. Like, that's interesting, like that should be I I want to know more about that. You know, and I say to families, maybe that's where you start is uh share in some of these tools that we learn in recovery, but aren't really just tools for us, they're tools for you know how to be a human.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

And vulnerability isn't just sort of saying all the things that are wrong with us, it's also being vulnerable about some of the good stuff, too, being able to speak gratitude out loud and acknowledge, you know, all the realities of existence. And it seems like recovery sort of opened your eyes to everything the good, the bad, the ugly, in a way that allowed you to be your true self.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Well, I was a f I was fearful of showing the world that I I I I like, what's if they don't like it? What's if I don't like that person? And I needed that vulnerability to like, okay, you know, because I used to go to every environment I went into and changed myself to to to meet that environment because I wanted the connection of that environment. So I would be what they wanted me to be, and and what and and then I would go over here and be that person that they want me to be. Now I just go wherever I go, I go as my authentic self. And you know, if people are interested in that, wonderful. If not, I'm like, okay, I I don't have to, I'm not changing. You know, and I don't require you and the environment to change either. I just know that like this, you know, I'm I'll find uh I I'll I'll keep moving. So it it it's really vulnerability, uh you know, combined, you know, with uh, you know, just you know what I like to say about it recovery is recovery exists on the other side of fear. And you know, we we we we s we stop ourselves because of all this fear of going forward, and vulnerability is the is that key to you know to to get you through the fear and like what waits on the other side is you know all those all the things you wanted.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Well, Tom, I'm grateful to have this connection with you. I I really appreciate you taking the time to share your story with us today.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, I it's a real gift. As I tell tell everyone, you know, uh every talk I go to, it's like you know, don't misunderstand, like what you're really seeing here is me healing. And that's you know, even though I'm on your podcast talking about this, I'm doing this because I'm healing it allow it, you know, I'm grateful that you've given me this chance to heal, like because I'm telling my story and I heal just a little bit more every time. And um, and part of that is, you know, people coming up to me and like and the response I get, I'm like, oh, that's my story. And that's that's that connection that I get because of it, like that allows me to heal, you know, because we you know, as I said also, I say we tell our stories because we don't heal in isolation, we need each other to heal, and families need that too. You can't uh you know expect that one person to heal alone, you know, heal together.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

That's so spot on, and we appreciate your wisdom and your time, Tom. Thanks for coming today.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Yeah, enjoyed it. Thank you so much, Tom.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

Thanks for listening to the Thriving with Addiction Podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, please follow and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast and share it with someone who might benefit. You can also connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube, or visit thrivingwithaddiction.com to learn more. Stay tuned for next week's episode, and remember, Thriving is podcast.