From the NBA to Recovery: Growth, Purpose, and Giving Back with Chris Herren

Chris Herren is a former NBA player, author, and nationally recognized recovery advocate who has become one of the leading voices on addiction, mental wellness, and prevention. Sober since 2008, Herren has shared his story with more than two million students, athletes, and community members through Herren Talks, encouraging honest conversations about substance use, self-esteem, and emotional health. His journey was featured in the memoir Basketball Junkie, the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary Unguarded, and the prevention-focused film The First Day.

Herren is also the founder of Herren Project, a nonprofit supporting individuals and families affected by addiction, and Herren Wellness, a residential recovery and wellness program based in Seekonk.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Thriving with Addiction Podcast, where we explore how recovery is not just about surviving, but about truly living. Each week we'll dive into the styles, stories, and strategies that help people and families heal from addiction and build healthier, more resilient lives. I'm your host, Dr. John Avery. Let's get started. I'm John Avery and welcome back to Thriving with Addiction. Today we're joined by Chris Herring. Chris is a former NBA player, author, and nationally recognized recovery advocate who has become one of the leading voices on addiction, mental wellness, and prevention. Sober since 2008, Chris has shared his story with more than two million students, athletes, and community members through Heron Talks, encouraging honest conversations about substance use, self-esteem, and emotional health. His journey was featured in the memoir Basketball Junkie, the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on guarded, and the prevention-focused film The First Day. Heron is also the founder of Heron Project, a nonprofit supporting individuals and families affected by addiction and Heron Wellness, a residential recovery and wellness program based in Seekong. Chris, welcome. Thank you. Great to be here. You've done a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yeah, I mean, I'm incredibly proud. You know, I really, when I first got sober, I didn't have necessarily a direction I wanted to go. But I know I I never envisioned, you know, what I've been able to do because of recovery for the last 17 and a half years. So, you know, the the mission of just one has always been kind of my my mantra, right? Um, and you know, thankfully and and God willing, we've been able to impact so many more.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So many over these 17 years. And I understand Heron Projects just celebrated 15 years, and you you ran the Boston Marathon to celebrate that. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

I did, I did. It's um my wife and I, you know, we ran it together. Um, you know, I this is this is not just my illness, you know, it's ours. Um, it's not just my recovery, it's our recovery. Um, you know, we we've walked through this journey together, shoulder to shoulder. Um, you know, she's experienced her own trauma and and and has you know her story as well. And to um to run the Boston Marathon knowing that, you know, every step mattered and and we were going to be able to impact so many because of it was it was really special.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

No, that's that's so key to uh and so so amazing that you've been able to do it together uh throughout the years. I I happened to read that your first marathon in in 2014 was was even more eventful. Is that right? And it's you're not a natural marathon runner, but you do it for a good cause.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

I do. It's all about the mission, right? It's all about the cause. I'm not competing. Um, I'm not I'm not out there with with any goals um in mind uh that's around the marathon. It really is just for the cause. And you know, it takes a little bit of the pressure off. Um, but it's an incredible accomplishment. It's an incredible feat. I mean, you know, 26 miles, you know, is is is quite a distance, but it's the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of miles um you have to go through by yourself or with your partner um in order to accomplish that, to cross the line.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Well, if anyone could do it, I imagine it's you. You were a gifted athlete from from day one. I I've seen those videos of you playing ball as as as a as a high schooler. Did did sports and and athletics always come naturally for you?

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, genetics, I was born into it in a sense. I was probably forced fed basketball because of my my family from my lineage. Um doesn't mean I necessarily enjoyed it, but I was I was good enough at it. For sure. Um and you know, I've been somewhat a competitor most of my life. So to uh to to do that marathon um to to to accomplish that goal, um, you know, it g it brought back that little fire inside of me somewhat.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

And and take me back to growing up a little bit. Basketball was a huge part of it, as you were saying. Um, but so is drinking and substances a little uh to walk me through some of the origin story to start.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, you know, I mean, I think I started, you know, sadly, like most kids start, right? Like I started in the woods, you know, I'm in my neighborhood, and I started with somebody else, some adult's alcohol, you know, whether it was my father's or my friend's parents. Um and uh, you know, that's why my with the documentary, I think that, you know, we put so much emphasis on what's going to happen to you because of drugs and alcohol in the end, and and we forget the beginning and we forget day one. Um, you know, my day one was like most. And uh, you know, I I started socially drinking, you know, in high school. Um, but as an athlete who is extremely competitive and traveling the country, I wasn't around a lot. Um, you know, a gentleman wrote a book about me when I was 16 years old, and he spent a significant amount of time, almost a year and a half. And, you know, he always would say to me, like, I never saw it coming. You know, I didn't see your behavior didn't match up with what happened later on in life. Um, but you know, I opened that door, you know, I took that step, I started that process, and you know, it all, you know, what when I look back on it and I share this when I speak, um, you know, I uh my dad, my dad struggles with alcoholism. And um, you know, as a little boy, I I knew I didn't know what alcoholism was, but I knew it was a beer that caused the problem. And and you know, when people talk about my story, they want to, you know, oftentimes reference back to like my oxycontin days and the Boston Celtics. And for me, as a as a father, as an adult who's 50 years old, like to me, the day one was the saddest for me, you know, because although I wasn't educated around alcoholism, I knew that that beer was not healthy in my home. And it and it impacted not only myself, my brother, but my mom and our family.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Right. No, I think that's uh one of the powerful things about your the way you when you tell your story and about um the first day, and it is often overlooked. I mean, some of the other behaviors are sometimes louder, but it all comes from that initial place, both the first drink, but also for the some of those feelings. Well, what do you think alcohol did for you back then or or substances in those early years?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

You know, I think it I used it as an escape, right? Like I think my my parents' marriage was struggling um during my teenage years. They eventually divorced when I was 19. Um, but I think I think the instability of family and what was going on in my house, I think it played a big factor. I think you roll in um the success I had as a young athlete and the pressure that came with it, um, oftentimes felt it was welcoming for me to to kind of just be one of and not, you know, the guy. Um, you know, and I actually kind of adopted that kind of mantra, like that, you know, I just want to be like everybody else. Um, and you know, and I fell victim to that as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

And then how did things progress over time? I mean, your your uh athletics really progressed on to being a college star and then to the MBA. Um, but you carried the addiction with you, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 8:23

I did. I mean, it was it was always there. Um, you know, incredibly, you know, it was significantly unaddressed. Um, but you know, to the to the coaches, to the parents, to the family in my life back then, I mean, it was it wasn't easy to identify. I think it became easy to identify when, you know, I was 18 years old and I and I was introduced to cocaine. Um, you know, at 18 years old, being in the McDonald's All-American game, featured in Sports Illustrated, getting ready to start my season at Boston College. And, you know, I opened the wrong door one night, and that and that door behind that door was cocaine. And um, you know, that was basically to me, that was the red flag that went up. That, you know, unfortunately as well. It was it was kind of unaddressed. When I was an 18-year-old college kid playing high-level basketball, um, it was more about punishing and punitive than it was education and prevention and and and recovery.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Right. So there really wasn't an opening for you to address it, be open and honest about it. Especially because things, things probably felt pretty high stakes for you.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

You know, I I was dismissed from Boston College and I I kind of ran away from the headlines, and I said, you know, let me go to the furthest place I can go to in the middle of nowhere in Fresno. Um, and when I landed there, I had people who wanted to help me get sober and stay sober. Um, you know, I had coaches who brought me to AA meetings for the first time. So I was introduced to that community when at around 20 years old. And uh and while I still struggled at Fresno, um, you know, the reaction from Fresno State University was like, you know, not only are we gonna punish you and or suspend you, but we're gonna help you. And I I went to treatment for the first time. I was 21 years old, and I I was put on a plane to go to a residential treatment center in Salt Lake City, Utah. So that was my introduction to treatment. And, you know, for me today as a as a as a sober as a sober man, um, and and what I've dedicated my life to is is kind of changing that stigma of how I felt when I went to treatment. Like I felt like I was just being shunned. I felt like they were punishing me. Like I had to, it was my penance. Like, you just you just get away from us for a certain amount of time and we'll let you come back. It wasn't, they didn't make the opportunity attractive to me. And I think, you know, that's that's what I've tried to do over the last, you know, especially at my wellness center. Um, you know, I have 15 young adults here right now, and I want them to feel gratitude for this. Like this is a time where we can improve and get better in every facet of your life. So um I was I was fortunate to be introduced to recovery at a young age.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Right. And I mean, what you say is so spot on. I mean, if we frame it as punishment withholding, as opposed to a real opportunity for growth and to get treatment and help, I mean, that's a huge difference and in terms of how we we message it. And I think we've made some gains, but a lot of it is still very punishing today.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Yeah, you know, I mean, I was watching Rich Row the other day, and you know, it it's crazy when I was on his on his podcast, and it's like, you know, it becomes very evident. It's like jails, institution, or death. For not all, but for some. And I that was for me. I fell in that category. It's gonna die, go to jail, um, or be institutionalized. And and um, or you can take one step this way and live the most fulfilling life you've ever dreamed of. And, you know, it's it's that powerful that we stay on on this side of the line. And, you know, I think it's incredibly important to frame this process about, you know, self-improvement and an opportunity and a a time in your life to kind of unplug and reset. And, you know, that's what I've done at Heron Wellness. That's kind of the messaging that I've wanted to give here for the last eight years when people come on this campus. And it's it's a it's a beautiful reset.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

And then for your story, you you made it out of out of college to the MBA and and back to Boston. Um, and while you had some inkling that substance use was an issue, you ended up falling in with the with the oxy and then the pills ultimately, is that right? Correct.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah, I was introduced to OxyContin. I I believe, you know, it was right around 1999, um 2000. Um, you know, the only thing I knew, I was probably six months into OxyContin um when I saw the the term hillbilly heroin. Um it be it became this national news story that you know the state of West Virginia and Kentucky uh are in an epidemic because of a pill called OxyContin. And unfortunately, I was probably already six months into it. Um and, you know, it was something that I didn't plan for. Um I had really no idea. I had taken painkillers in the past, Vicanins and Percocets. Um, but at 20 years old, playing in the NBA, introduced to OxyContin, put me on a path that, you know, almost killed me.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

And what ultimately led you to to make that final step into sobriety and stop using that and everything else?

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, I probably battled with OxyContin for like five to eight years. And, you know, I did almost the unnatural transition, natural transition, however you want to frame it, of falling into heroin. Um, you know, and I became an IV heroin user. I was I was shooting heroin throughout my professional basketball career. Um, but I started to overdose, you know, it became very evident, you know. The first time it became very public for me. I had just got done playing with the Celtics, and um and I was found in my car, overdosed. And that became a huge story in this area. And, you know, that arrest, that that that moment, um, you know, made everybody who loved me aware that you know the struggle that I was going through was much more severe than than they thought. Um so, you know, I I struggled with OxyContin, I struggled with heroin, and and I kind of ended with vodka. Um you know, I I there was nothing left for me. I I I couldn't afford, you know, my the money I had spent on on opiates was incredible. And I I just I couldn't afford a habit like that. And uh I transitioned to vodka. So for the last couple of years, um in my early 30s, I was primarily a vodka drinker, you know, with two pints, two and a half pints a day. And um and I was dying. Um and I alcohol for me was not, I wasn't I wasn't attractive, I wasn't fun to be around. I I became I became a monster with alcohol. And um, thankfully, um, you know, I was I had an opportunity to get some heroin and I had a lot of vodka in my system, and my system shut down and I overdosed, and I was once again arrested, brought to the hospital. And um, you know, the rest is kind of history for me. You know, that's that was my entry point to getting sober 18 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

And when you look back on those years in your 20s, 30s, and its impact on your basketball career and your relationships and life, well, what what is it what comes to mind as you as you think about all that?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

You know, I I think the reality is, you know, I'm still navigating my way through those years. Um, you know, I I they for me, they don't go away. Um you know, I I impacted uh the people closest to me and the people who love me as you know my children who are now adults. Um so we've we've we've revisited, you know, we've gone back. We've we've done what was necessary um to kind of find our way through that history together. Um but you know, forgiveness is tricky, you know. I'm I'm much better at forgiving than I than I than I am to be forgiven. Um and you know, I've I've done, you know, although I've been sober for coming up on 18 years, I've I've done an incredible amount of work the last three years. I was introduced to IFS and EMDR, and you know, I did, I'm still currently doing that every Friday from 1030 to 12 for three years. And it's just given me so much peace in my life. It's given me a lot of peace, it's given me a lot of space. It's allowed me to communicate and and navigate that way through through the process with my children and my wife, and it's uh it's been incredible freedom.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

And for those that aren't familiar with those treatments, maybe you can discuss just briefly what they are and then how they were helpful with with I guess trauma of all of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

You know, IFS is internal family systems. Um you know, it's uh there's parts of me that were that needed to be seen, heard, revealed, healed. Um, you know, they they were reactive and and they I needed to, you know, my therapist says it's almost like a time machine. I I had to go back and and and work through some of these traumatic moments of my life and and kind of change the narrative around them and change the story. You know, I became part of that moment as an adult. Um, and I knew what to do, I knew what I needed. Um, so that trauma work for me was was um it was so incredibly important. You know, I was 15 years sober and um I was losing my grip. I was losing my grip on recovery. 15 years sober was probably the toughest year I ever had in recovery. It was tougher than year one. Um and uh, you know, I I I thankfully I I I was introduced to to this therapist, and um, you know, he's just he's just giving me so much, right? Like, you know, just this simple gesture of to just ask, you know, just ask, you know, don't don't assume, don't anticipate, just ask. And that's been incredibly helpful with my with my children. And you know, just like for me to retreat, regroup, and return, you know, like I've never had that. I'm always I'm always a go guide, you know. And so so any any uh instability, any uh confrontation, you know, I'm wired to run full speed at it and address it. Um you know what this has done is giving me the the the time to recognize it, walk away from it, process it, and come back to do it and deal with it as an adult, you know. So, you know, it's just those little tools that I've developed over the years in this type of therapy that has been incredibly helpful.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

No, I think that that's a powerful moment and a powerful reminder that just because one enters recovery doesn't mean everything goes away. And there are moments along recovery when we have to dive into other stuff in in more depth in order to get a better sense from ourselves. Because those initial years you manage recovery mainly with with 12-step work, or what was it that sustained those road years?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

A lot of grant, a lot of 12-step work, and and and trust me, like that is that is my work, right? Like I that is who I am. You know, I'm a 12-step guy. I don't think it's for everybody, but it was for me, and it and it gave me so much in my life. Um, you know, I love the community, I love claiming my seat, I love serving, helping others. Like that's that's kind of who I am, but it didn't make me perfect, right? It didn't make me perfect, and and there was still a lot of work that needed to be done. And um, you know, I'm I'm just so thankful that I was able to get out in front of it before it can't before it got me. And I uh you know, you know, there's a thing in in in IFS called the eight C's, and you know, with the eight C's and and I won't go over them, but like you know, courage, community, curiosity, um you know, when I Lose my curiosity in life, I'm not in a good space. And you know, um, I I was introduced to that process through this, and it's been incredibly helpful for me going forward.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

And what you said about the sort of pressure to be perfect resonated with me because I imagine as a basketball player, there's that incredible pressure to be that way. And then as a public someone who's so outspoken about the recovery, who's had their narrative covered by all sorts of media outlets and books and and films, there's probably a similar pressure to almost just stick to that narrative and and be perfect in that that way that's been told already.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah, you know, I mean, I think that was kind of the struggle for me, right? I'm like, here I am. I I have families, you know, um, who believe in my message, who believe in my mother, who believe in how I do things in recovery. Um, and I I could not hide that from anyone. You know, I had to say, like, you know, although I'm sober, although I'm in recovery, although I talk recovery, work, work in recovery, live recovery, you know, recovery can be bumpy. You know, it can get a little bumpy, it can get a little turbulent. And again, um, you know, for me, I I don't know where I would be if I didn't walk into that office that day. Um, but I know where I am now because of how I walked in that office. And and it's it's just incredible.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Wow. And tell me a little bit more about your wife and and your family in in your recovery. You mentioned, you know, it was important to run that marathon with her. And and I think she was uh a part of all the the bumps along the way, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Oh gosh, yeah. She's been on the bumps. You know, we've known each other since we were 12. So like we've we've known each other for 38 years. Um she knew me before, she knew me during, and she knew me, she knows me after. Um, so yeah, hey, you know, this impacts whoever's close to it, right? Like it made my wife incredibly, I'm not gonna tell her story, but you know, it made her incredibly sick. You know, I mean, she's raising three children and she has me running on the streets overdosing, um completely disrupting her world, my children's world. Um, and the fact that she gave me the time um to go through this process, you know, I mean, I I could never, I could never pay her back. But that's why I referenced the Boston Marathon because, you know, oftentimes I'm the one out in front. And the reality is, is uh she's shoulder to shoulder with me, and she has been since day one.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Well, your honesty and the way you tell your story, it continues to evolve and it and it continues to really help people. Talk a little bit about the different things you're doing to help people. Um, I mean, so many different great initiatives from Heron Talks, the first day, the project, your your facility there. So walk me through the menu. And and I think highlight the first day, because that's really one of the best prevention films that I've I've ever seen, and one I often am a part of in terms of screenings for it.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah, I mean, the first day is my is my is the crown jewel, in my opinion, you know, of the work that I've been able to put together over the last you know 15 years or so. Um you know, I felt as if, you know, I and I say this with humility, um you know, I have this incredible, volatile, bumpy story um that reached great heights and it and incredible depths. And, you know, I traveled the country for eight years telling that story, and I just felt as if I was kind of playing into the stigma to the narrative of putting so much emphasis into shocking, scaring children about addiction. Um and and you know, I'm so incredibly thankful that, you know, I kind of had that moment where I was like, I need to pivot this. I I have their audience, I need to speak more about them and their language and where they're at in their life and and where I was at at their age. Um so, you know, the first day is everything for me. Um, it's kind of the foundation of what I do today.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

And I think one of the core messages, as opposed to scaring people about drugs that you're conveying to kids is almost that it's just okay to be them. Is that right? That that there's a lot of difficult feelings and be aware of what you might do to medicate them and recognize your worth and value and and and get the help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

And and and honestly, even a little before that, just the preventative, like you don't have to, you know, you you don't have to. You don't have to follow that path. Like you will find your way through if you stay there. Um I I uh you know, I have I have children that navigated their way through those years without alcohol and drugs. And you know, trust me, there were many nights I was like, oh, you know, they're not having the fun I I envisioned them having at 16, 17 years old. Um, but you know, they had their own community of friends that chose, you know, abstinence at that time. Um but yeah, you know, I think if, you know, I'm constantly talking to parents, and um, you know, I often ask them, like, okay, we've identified where, when he started, where he gets it, how he gets it, what he's doing, or she. Have you asked them why? And most parents don't ask why. Most parents kind of want to shut the faucet off. Like, I'm gonna isolate you from that group, I'm gonna keep you here in front of me, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep track or track your phone, and I'm gonna know where you are at all times. But why?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Right. I think and I think sometimes people assume the why is because you're like a bad person or a troublemaker, but it it the real why points to something deeper.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Absolutely. And and that's that that's been the joy that I've I've received over the last you know 10 years doing the first day is that you know kids identify their why and kids share their why. And you know, I have I didn't share my why until I was probably 33, 34 years old. And I have 16-year-old, 15-year-old students letting me into their world and telling me their why. And I think once we, if we can get them there in that self-reflection moment, go back to class and s and think about, you know, their family and the people that love them and and and you know, the example they're setting for the younger kids in their family, if they're a big brother or a big sister, you know, I think those are things that, you know, put them in a space to think about who they're becoming and the things they're doing. So, you know, Heron Project was started 15 years ago. It's it's it's done, you know, much more than I ever envisioned. Um I I kind of started with a mission of just helping one, and it's become thousands and thousands of people. Um, you know, Heron Wellness is is my dream come true in a sense. Um, I created this wellness campus, this wellness center that is extremely holistic and and with with different modalities of of of recovery here. Um but just like the just the self-improvement, right? Like I needed a win. And and you know, at 32 years old, I needed to get better, not just at not doing drugs and alcohol. I needed to improve in every facet of my life. And, you know, when when people come in, come to come to this campus, um, you know, we focus on every facet, you know, whether it's nutrition, whether it's physical, you know, whether it's working with the personal trainer, yoga, meditation, breath work, packet puncture, massage therapy. Um, you know, we do it all. And and it just, you know, it gives them some wins. And and that's what I love about this place.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

And now for all these years sober and for doing the therapy, what's what's life like for you these days?

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Life is good. Life is good. I'm not, you know, I I uh I have my moments, you know. I I definitely have my moments. You know, I'm still I'm still in therapy, you know. It's not life isn't perfect, it's not a straight line. Um, but I'm trying, you know, I'm putting the effort in. Um, you know, I think that question, and I'm very proud of that, I think that question, if asked to my children, would say, you know, my dad is so much better than he used to be. Um, and and that's that's kind of my aim. You know, if if my kids uh answer that question, you know, yeah, that's all I can ask for.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

And your story's notable for your real ability to change. You know, a lot of people go through life and and find change very hard, but you've had to do it on the biggest stage multiple times, and even in recovery, when you think it's all set to still sort of be honest and and and to make those adjustments. I think it's a great example for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

I hope so. You know, I I think, you know, I think one of my and again, it's it's I don't want to sound like I I think recovery is my is my superpower, right? Like I think it it's it's the greatest gift that I've been given personally. Um, but I was also blessed because of you know the way I walked into recovery and the people who I surrounded myself with, that like vulner vulnerability is a superpower, right? Like just let it go. Um, you know, and and I've I've been okay with letting it go. And and you know, oftentimes people say to me, like, you know, you you're almost too forthcoming and honest. And you know, for me, I have to be. It's worked for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

No, I think it's your real strength as well. Yeah. Well, Chris, you're fantastic. I appreciate you taking the time to share your story and everything that you're doing with us today. Oh, of course. Thanks for listening to the Thriving with Addiction podcast. If you found today's episode helpful, please follow and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast and share it with someone who might benefit. You can also connect with me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube, or visit thrivingwithaddiction.com to learn more. Stay tuned for next week's episode and remember, Thriving is popular.