The Evolution of Our Training: Mistakes, Lessons & Levelling Up

In Episode 5 of Between Sets Podcast, we unpack how our training has changed from the moment we first stepped into the gym to how we train today. From bad bro-science and ego lifting to understanding biomechanics, tempo, intensity, and smarter programming — we break down the exact shifts that leveled up our results.

We talk through what we used to do, what we stopped doing, and what we wish we knew from day one. Whether you're a beginner or years into lifting, this episode will help you avoid the mistakes we made and train with more intention, efficiency, and longevity.

If your training feels stuck or random, this episode will change the way you lift.

Transcript

0:01

They said it couldn't be done. What? We're back. We back. We back to do some back. Oh, didn't even plan that. We back in today. Thank God, because I was really hoping we wouldn't do legs. Honestly, my knee is actually not doing well. My cheeks are sore. All right, dude, let's just do a quick little warm up, just some bands and some deadlifts, maybe some rows. And then we start with weighted chin ups. oh Four sets, four to six. So just like straight chin ups. Okay. I like that. Yeah. Okay. Let's get some bands. Want to do it right over there? Yeah. The weighted pull ups. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. Cool. Okay. So, well, we got, I got the topic for us today. Yes. Yes. Yes. Covering the camera with your very large back. thank you. Jokes. All right, today's topic, we're just going to focus on one thing the entire time. That's going to be out of conversation. how it goes. But no, it could be a very broad topic. We're going to talk about how our training has changed since we started all the way to now. So a whole two years. I'm just kidding. I've been training for like 15. long has it been? Only 15? No, probably. I've been doing it for 16, 17. So I started a lot older than me. So it should be at least 20. Buddy, I'm like a year older than you. You're three years older than me. Hold on, hold on, hold looks at himself in the mirror, he's like, I'm only a year older than I just, dude, I shaved, I got a haircut, I look like a baby. I mean, I didn't say you look old. I appreciate that. I'm thinking, yeah, no, I've been training since I was 18, probably, like, if I'm not including sports when I was growing a late bloomer. 18. So 18 years almost. So I was right. It's more than me. If I include like soccer and stuff, then it's probably like almost 20. Oh, you want include sports? I'm talking about in the gym specifically. Yeah, I'm talking like fitness specific, weight lifting, bodybuilding. then was probably since I was like 14. So 20 years. So you started training weights since you're 14. Okay, this is sports. It's a Monday guys. Guys it's Monday. Okay, let's just say 18. Well, okay, let's let's broaden it Let's say when is the first time you've done anything athletic? How about that? Yeah, so probably like 13 14. That's when you started damn. Yeah, I started playing soccer when I was like Competitively when I was like 12 13. Yeah, my parents put me in like in the Chinese workshop I was in there like at 6. Really? No way I started Kung Fu at five and then I was like, want to play hockey. So I started hockey at like seven. Okay. Okay. Seven, eight. Nice. I know my parents made me focus on school. Sport is for stupid people. Matthew, you must learn one plus one, two, two plus two, four. I was doing calculus in like grade five. My dad was crazy. No, you weren't. I was. Calculus? I'll tell you the story. I almost got shipped off to a gifted school. What happened? Well, I discovered weed and I wasn't gifted anymore. No, no. So when I was young and I was growing up, my dad would always make me do uh after school, I'd come home and he made me do homework. Like he would, he would write out homework, but he was teaching me like algebra and calculus on grade two and grade three. So my with a whip in the back, my grade six teacher pulled my parents in and said, they want to send me to a gifted school because my math was at like a 10th grade level and I was in grade six. And then my parents are like, is free? No, it's a private school. No, he stay here. Yeah. So dude, could have, I could have been, if my parents weren't not. Yeah. That I'm, that I'm. Good thing you discovered weed at the eight, at grade six. Yeah. Yeah. No, it around grade seven and eight. And then I was like, well, there goes all that algebra and calculus that I learned. I'm gonna lift some weights now. I'm gonna live forever. Are we doing overhand or underhand? uh It's pull ups. So overhand grip. Okay, let's go close grip. Yeah, whatever. We do like one warm up set and then we add the belt. There you go. Nice. get in the way. Probably gonna flip it around. Also, after my first set, I'm already like, I need to take this sweater off. I'm sure we're gonna have to take it off anyway. You know what, I'll just log this in strength trainer later. Smart, smart man. Hey, so. Dude, all my bones and joints. That Monday workout bro. Oh you're not recovered? Nope. Actually my recovery is not bad. It's like 60%. That's it? I'm a 91, I don't know how. When you slept, nice. Eight and a half hours. Yeah, it's a good day. So do you remember the first day you started training? in the gym? Let's say what's your first memory? We're to go to the first time we trained anything. So what's your first memory of like doing some kind of body movement with some form of resistance for some kind of probably in high school strength training class other than like soccer drills or whatever I was doing for soccer drills. That's more like agility training. Yeah. No, it would have been a nation covering the camera. Sorry, would have been like grade 10. We had like a strength training class. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And I had this teacher, Mr. Pappas. Mr. Pappas? Bro, yeah, this big Greek guy. Dude, this guy, he was Sylvester Stallone. He looked exactly like Sylvester Stallone. Was he on gear? Bro, now that I think about it, probably. Dude had like 24 inch arms. It was crazy. You never put that together, He was, well now. Yo, every school has that one teacher that's low-key on gear. I had one too. He was juiced to the gills. But he was, I don't want to name drop him. Yeah, that's okay Mr. Papas. Remember me? Look at me now. That's right, in the gym, doing this as a career. How do you feel? Thanks Papas. You nerd. That must be dad in Greek. Papas? I don't know, maybe It's my Papas. Alright, we got four sets of four to six reps. Here we go. Nice. I guess we can talk about the different phases over the years. We'll kind of take turns. I'll start. Because you kind of have to. I have no choice. So I would say... Yeah, I'm good with that. I would say the very first... My first love... And first thing I trained for many years was body building, dude. Just like, I remember I was, I think I had just started working out maybe for like a year or two. was just doing more bodybuilding.com in the golden era. Field forum. Yeah. These days. Yeah. When the, yeah. The Z's days in the golden era. You got to the plate in. Oh, you're doubling up the plate. I got techniques. Damn. Okay. I'm going to have to come in on that this next round. I was straight phleb that first round. Second round. But then this happens. I think I'm going to stick with my original. Nice, Roll up the sausage. Yeah, cut that out. Or enhance. Jarvis? Enhance. Jarvis, zoom in 80 times. Anyway, make it slim thick. So yeah, that was my first foray was I did. all my training research on bodybuilding.com, Steve Cook, Master Vital, I'm sure you know that. And I would literally just do whatever their programs are. be like, know, 16 week bulk, 12 week, whatever they had. They always had these programs on sale or they were free at the time. Then they eventually monetized. So that's how I started. So you went straight into bodybuilding, eh? Damn, first time for me with weight or? some form of weight training. The first memories I have is doing hockey training. We would do dry land. And what a funny name, dry land literally just means not on the ice, high intensity interval training and you're not on the ice. Such a weird concept. But we did do a lot of agility, but we were doing things like pushups. We were doing sit ups, body weight stuff. And then we had like some dumbbell work. and some light weights. we were doing like curls and shoulder presses and doing work with a lot of medicine balls. So kind of like more functional stuff. of a 45. Sports specific. Yeah, sports specific. was a... Come on in, Bray, you're good. Probably 12. No, you're good. You can make a camo. My first exposure was probably 12, I think. 12, eh? Yeah, 12, 13. Slowly, slowly. And then as I started getting in... like higher levels, 14, 15, 16, started having a bit more of a focus on the weights. Yeah, yeah. I think that happened to me until I was probably like 17, 18. Yeah. But it was so basic. I didn't even know what I was doing. Yeah. It's like, okay, I'm going to curl this. I'm going to press this. I didn't even know what the weight was. Arms every day. Yeah. Like, oh, this feels good. But my main focus, I was always trying to have a six pack. That's all I cared about. was just like, I need to do abs, just abs. And it's funny cause we're talking about how you're training. Now I'm just like abs. I'll do them once a year. Yeah. One, two, nice. Ed, you gotta wonder some more. Good shit. Yeah, I would say my... Should we put a plate in this? I'll probably do another one with this. Maybe on the last set or two. I'm gonna do like a really heavy one. We could do probably 35. Yeah, works for me. My sweater felt like it was gonna explode. Tear off. Yeah, kind of in the same vein. I'm gonna do it backwards. This is how we do it. Hold on, hold on, hold on. The struggle is real. Okay, so my way is better. Yeah, definitely. And then you can also squeeze it with your legs. The old thigh activation, the adductors. Straight up watermelon squeeze. I keep talking while I do this and I'll tell you my first, let's go, let's break it down by like phases. Yeah, well, first couple years. beginner phase. Yeah. This is the not knowing anything new phase. Yes. So you were doing random shit. I was just doing whatever I would find on bodybuilding.com pretty didn't even do that. This is like even before I'm old, even before Instagram and shit. was just like, it was just straight up bottom of the comp. Or do you remember simply shredded? Yeah, of course. That's a cool. I still, used to love that website. So it would just oscillate between the two. Good word choice. Thank you. So I guess that sixth grade calculus is still in there somewhere. two more. But yeah, so, okay, so back to me. I remember I would just be doing like, leg raises and crunches and all sorts of things in our spare room. Just to try to get abs. like two 10 pound dumbbells and I would like curl them. I would press them. I would, I even would squat and it was like the worst squat ever. Yeah, yeah, just like terrible form. like this. Just like moving, right? Yeah. Trying to get acquainted and familiar with your body. And you don't know at the time, but that's kind of what I was doing. It's kind of helps build your your mechanics, like your control of your body or mind muscle connection, all that stuff. so after that, then the next thing I remember is, well, aside from dry land, the next thing I remember is in high school, we would have those gym classes. And then that's when I first got introduced to the bench. and things changed. Bro, the second I got under that bench, it was like, You know when your life flashes before your eyes? This time I was seeing the future. Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, what I could be. And then I remember I had some friends who I considered strong at the time because they could bench a plate. That's crazy. And I was like, I was doing like 25s on each side. This was in grade 11 or so. I was like 16, 17. And then I tried 35 and I was OK with 35s on each side, but a plate was That was not possible for me. That's crazy. And then look at you now. started kind of that camaraderie aspect started happening and you're like pushing each other to do better. And I never, I never had that. I never experienced that before because I was just coach. I was not coaching. was training by myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't know that whole vibe of your friends pushing you in gym. So that was a cool aspect of it as well. We're doing four sets of this, right? Yeah, we'll do a heavy one after. Yeah, I would say uh kind of a similar boat for me. Like I said, I started probably like 15, 16, aside from like when I was playing soccer that I started lifting weights. And yeah, I think for the first basically three years until I was in college, just would do everything would be like off of those websites, bodybone.com. So I would try. Every time they'd upload a new like eight week plan, would, whatever I was doing, I did immediately just switch to the new plan. Okay. So yeah. ADHD. Yeah. I was like, Oh, this is a muscle building phase and by this guy and he's ripped. So I want to do this workout. So that's kind of where I learned like the basics. Obviously a lot of it too, was like horrible form. Like I was just looking at the pictures that they had like, you had no video. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You had nothing to compare. So that I did that for like three years, was starting to get really into it, gained a little bit of muscle, was starting to feel good, learned a little bit more. And then at around, what was it? Maybe 18, 19 when I was in college, when I was in computer engineering for the first year, while I was in school, I was constantly going to the universities or the colleges gym. And then I met a- Was it an ice gym? Yeah, I was hungry. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's pretty good. I don't know what it is now, but it was good when I was there. And let me do this real quick. So, yeah, I started training first year of college. Oh, wait, was it the one on Lake Shore close to Kipling? That gym? did it? No, no, it's like Martin Grove. It's like the all different campus. North campus. Yeah. Got it. Anyway, so I did that for a while. And then we're to add a 10. Yeah, sure. Let's do it for the last one. That was only my third one. I Did I start? I started. Okay. So let's add a 10. Yeah. I, uh, yeah, let's add a 15. Then after, get spicy. Sure. After the, a year of doing that in college, I decided to switch programs as you know, into fitness. And I think that's really when it started to like, kinesis. You did kinesis. Yes. Um, that's when it really started to kick off. Cause then I was learning, you know, the actual biomechanics and the different how to activate your gluteus minimus. Yeah, using big fancy words. You need to laterally extend and abduct your vastus lateralis to recruit motor units, you know, like just shit like that. I just crushed my balls. Careful. then I think it was... I don't know. I think it was around this time, maybe like 2021, where I went... This just feels like a powerful stance. Go on. Where I went to my first ever... think, were you there with me? I can't remember. I feel like I brought someone. I go with you to that? No, bro. How would I have been there if you showed me what you looked like when you first met me? yeah, yeah. Okay, I'm trying. I remember I went with one of my buddies. remember who it was. I thought it was you, for example. I think we weren't friends yet. We still like two years before our meeting. But you're kind of skipping a lot of your trajectory and growth, no? Well, from like 16 to was just, that's all I did was just find stuff online, copy it. So how did your body change in those three years? Like you used to be a very skinny kid. Very skinny. So let's go over what you changed and like, how did you eat different? Yeah, yeah. So, okay, let's go back to that before I move into the next phase. But yeah, so for those four years where I was just learning, like I said, it was just everything I kind of like would learn on the internet. I would buy, do you remember Inside Fitness, the magazines? Yeah. I would buy those. So I kind of like, Nice, nice, nice. It's just gonna be hard. I did everything I could to like educate myself as much as possible. Even on like nutrition, they used to have meal plans. So I would like follow those. I remember being like 16 and going to Popeyes and getting weight gainer protein shakes. Cause my only goal was to gain weight, right? Damn bro. Those must've tasted like ass. Dude, I would have two a day and they're 1100 calories each cause it's four scoops. And it was like drinking. Are like those fucking huge like triangular like, scoops like that? know the scoops from bulk barn? They're like shovels. They're like fucking shovels. Shovels. So I would do that and then obviously I'm like 17, 18. I'm skinny as fuck. My metabolism is through the roof. So I was basically for like four years, my only goal was to gain weight. So I was just eating, not clean, like just bulking, like eating, eating, eating, training, training, training. And then yeah, like I gained. probably like 10 pounds, maybe 15 pounds. And that's when I was like, okay, I like how this feels. How do I do this forever? Yeah. And that's when I went, when I switched from engineering into fitness, cause I was just so in love with it that I wanted to like do that as a career. It didn't have anything to do with the engineering being obscenely hard and you're not understanding it at all. First off, how dare you? Second of all, yes. Dude, I'm teabagging the weights. Why are you doing it that tight? I don't know, bro. Leave me alone. It truly is Monday. It is Monday. Yeah, that's kind of like... No, no, I'll do it for you. Thank you. Take it out. Now take that out. Oh, because I'm double looping it. Right, right, right. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See? Sorry. We have our own techniques. This is why computer engineering was hard for you. Obviously engineering of any kind is not my forte. go. Yeah. So when did the whole smarts turn into just charisma? don't know, bro. I don't know. It just happened. Leave me alone. I'm going to put a pause on my story there. So I'm in university or college. I just switched to fitness and health. Started taking supplements. Started. Now I've started learning. So now I'm applying what I'm learning in school to training. That's kind of where I am right now. So continue your side. This topic has morphed into just like our oh autobiography. Pretty much, yeah. was born at a young age. But yeah, no, it's pretty cool. So I guess going on to me now, so you're just keeping it at I just started university. Just learning, basically still bodybuilding. Like I would do, you know, I do five by five blocks or whatever I would find on again on those websites. I just follow it. I just follow it. Exactly. Yeah. I had a bit more of a home brew upbringing. So other than the random workout here and there. Oh, fuck me. Nice. What time? It's okay. This workout. So in high school I would do the one off like not even once a week uh high school gym workout with some friends. Yeah. And other than that, it was just very athletics focused, know, hockey, rugby, volleyball, just a bunch of sports, right? So I was developing my uh body bodily control and biomechanic control through that type of stuff. So I was like very coordinated because of sports. Yeah. And then I remember it like it was yesterday, Grade 12. got introduced to protein powder. And it was the worst flavor you could imagine. Remember Isoflex? Oh God, It was strawberry banana. Oh no. at that time, bro, it tasted like vomit. And my mom was like, well, I bought it for you. You have to drink it. And I was like, mom, you don't understand how terrible this tastes. And she's like, I know it tastes terrible. It's a powder. are you going to? She thought it was like steroids. So she was pissed at me. Matthew, are you on protein? Oh my Lord. Where are we going? Yeah. We got close grip lap pull down and T bar row chest supported. Okay. It's getting a little hot. I'm going to take my sweater off. It's a good angle. Yeah, bro. It's getting hot as hell. It's getting... Oh, and we're also wearing matching hats today. F45 Central. I can't hear you because your mic's off. F45 at Topical Central. Is that a new Gymshark shirt? Yeah. I'm wearing that full gym shirt today. I didn't throw, didn't mix in any alpha leads today. Eight to 10 here. That one is set eight, six to eight. I think we just do like eight to 10 for both. Why don't we do, okay, we'll do one full super study each so that way we can talk in between. Cool. All right, you can start. All right, I'll continue my journey. Well, no, no, no, I'm gonna finish up. Okay, so I'll start. Yeah, you start. Okay. So. We're talking about that shitty protein powder. Yeah, and then so around that time I bought Jack 3D. and I so flexed strawberry banana flavor God it was awful. Probably the worst protein I've had in my life to this date. No way. Sorry, I so flexed Sponsorship from that I'm gonna accept it from my so flex Standards bro standards and then at that time about like halfway through grade 12 I was already like naturally, not naturally built, I guess my physique was pretty decent because of all the sports I was Yeah, yeah, for sure. You built a good foundation. really at that point like trained in this style. ah And then I started working out in my basement. You know, like the classic Eastern European one fits all machine. You've seen it. think you came to my house and saw it. still have one on my house. My old family house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was white. It did chest. It did abs. It did back. It did shoulders. It did arms. It did everything. And so I would rip that all the time. And my cousin Andre bought a barbell and some weights. 25s, 10s. And we would... We had like the most jerry-rigged home gym ever. Like the way that we held the bench, we had an okay bench, like chair bench. But the metal pieces that held the bar was so rickety and like was moving. And then we would put, 25 was the biggest weight we had. So we did 25, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, know what I mean? So was just like, like five, five, five, five. We're just like doing math. You're benching like 135, but it's 16 plates. Exactly. That's what I was trying to say. So we started doing that and that's kind of like when I first started lifting. So I've caught up to like my first moments of like bodybuilding and weightlifting. I was 18 finishing high school and then I would get my workouts mainly from YouTube. Jimmy, I forget his Jimmy Chan, what is his name? Six pack shortcuts? Six pack shortcuts. What the hell's his name? He looks like a Jimmy. He's on TikTok now. And he's all about mobility and stretching. He's so mobile. Dude, he sits in a low squat like a monkey. That's crazy. Like I'll send it to you later. But yeah, so I did six pack shortcuts. You remember like the towel workouts? Yeah. Yeah. And we would, I remember to this day we'd grab towels and we would like throw it and like squeeze and like do slow movements. And then we also got one of those door pull up bars. Oh, I used to have one of those. would rip that as many as we could. know what? Do the most Like shanky Jerry Rick you just reminded me. I gotta interject into my own timeline He's going to the past. Okay, so Like I said, I was this is too light It's a narrow narrow grip. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's still probably to 50 Yeah, so before this is good you go ahead go ahead before college university maybe it was like around the Last year of high school first year of college I was, like I said, doing all the bodybuilding stuff. A lot of it was at home. Like my dad has like the classic, like you said, Euro home gym where it's like one machine and just dumbbells of all different kinds. So I would do these bodybuilding workouts as best as I can at home. I actually hadn't joined the gym yet until I was in university. Yeah. So, but before all that, or maybe around the same time, 18, 19, when I was starting in school, I did P90X. Oh, I tried that too. That actually, now that I just think about it, that was probably the biggest trigger into me getting into health and fitness because that was one of the besides, like I said, doing those, it's not it doesn't move. I tried fixing it earlier, but uh I was doing one arm low, one arm low row. Yeah. I didn't even pay attention. But yeah, dude, P90X with Tony Horton. Remember that guy? Holy fuck. So I remember doing was the OG hit. Yeah. So I did P90X. I think the workouts are three, three months. I did it for nine months consecutive. I probably got shredded. I did. I was ripped. This is, I remember this because this is one of the, I remember I have a very distinct memory of my friends coming to my house and I had just tried pre-workout for the first time and it was a pre-workout. It's kind of like Jack that all those crazy ingredients called black powder. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. Dude, the shit was like a grenade. And I remember I was working out and my buddies were coming over and they rang the doorbell and I was mid workout and I ran upstairs and I was like, guys, I just tried pre-workout. I'm fucking wired. I was like, come downstairs. And they came down. I remember it was like Adrian and two other guys and they watched me just bicep curl. I was fucking like curling. was, veins were popping. I remember this moment so well. And I remember that was the day where I was like, all right, I want to do this for the rest of my life. Like this is sick. Yeah. So Yes. And then after I had the P90X for about a year and a half, when I had started school all the while, kind of before that doing the website workouts, then I finally started actually like learning how to lift cause I was in school and then like, you know, made some buddies there and then we would just all work out together. And that's when it took a turn to be like really bodybuilding focused. you know, your traditional chest day back day. Nice. then you, so around like early twenties is when you started having a split. Yeah, exactly. Up to that it was random workouts from the websites at home most of the time. Yep. Soccer when I was playing soccer and then P90X. P90X was a huge part of the reason why I'm even in the fitness industry. Right. Because I got so obsessed with it. Did you, so were you still eating your, drinking your mask in there when you Oh yeah. I was doing so how'd you change? I was still bulking. You're bulking but like lean. I was lean because A I was already skinny. How much did you weigh right after high school like before entering your first year of college or university? like 135, 140. Dude, I was a twig man. Jesus. I was 185. No, I was like 140. When I finished college, university, I got to 175 and I thought that was like massive. Now I'm at like 205, I can't get below 200. It's funny how your metabolism changes. I gotta do the Rose. Oh, true. Let me rip them quick. Yeah, well that's pretty interesting, So that's kinda how it was. uh stories are so different. Yeah, it's like P90X was definitely a really big factor. I even did some of their other ones. They have this one called insanity with Sean That's the one I was gonna say I fucking did one but it wasn't P90X. Insanity with Sean T. Yeah, the black guy. That was all body weight and it's just like straight hit. I did that for two months. Yeah, it was like burpees and all that shit. Yeah. And it was tiring as shit. Very tiring. I the hell? This is insanity. This is totally insane what I'm doing right now. And I remember it, obviously I feel like even though I did play hockey and all these cardio and intensive sports. Yeah. I feel like it was a different kind of cardio than that type of hit style, like always jumping, always moving. Yeah. So it felt super hard to me and very foreign. Yeah. But yeah, I did do that around the same time. That one I only did for two months, maybe even a month. I just like P90X that weights. Yeah. And like I would get, P90X I get pumped. So I was like, Addicted to that feeling addicted to the bomb. It's like coming. Yeah, I'm coming do not come I'm gonna come So anyway, yeah, then when I started college university started learning a little bit and then I think I was like 20 or 21 and I had just started kind of looking into maybe Competing like in bar. I want to do bodybuilding. I was like, alright, I'm going all in I want to become a bodybuilder you know, like This is who I'm going to be now. Yeah. Like I wanted to get my pro card, whatever. Yeah. And I remember going to damn. you, wow. Once I started to cut you off, we're actually doing better at not cutting each other off. Yeah. I'm patiently. You started lifting, then you started hitting the weights and you're like immediately wanted to be a bodybuilder. much. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that was in school and I was kind of like, this is like when Instagram started popping up like 2012. 2013 and like you see all these in like Steve Cook. The good old days. Was it Greg Clit? The guy who passed away? like, geez all those guys like that's the era that I was in my like 19, 20 year old age. Anyway so then I was like I want to do it and then at the time when I was doing Insanity when I was my first year of college, you know the story I'm not gonna get into it but I was living in the hotel for like five months because my house was under renovations. Remember that? you that's right. So while I was at the hotel, the owner of the hotel became really close to my family and he gave me tickets to the WBFF. thing at the place right by the hotel. They would host the athletes at the hotel. Right. Right. He knew I was into bodybuilding because I would always work out in the hotel downstairs. Right. So he's like, here are some tickets. You can watch the bodybuilding show. I'm like, sure. So I went with I thought it was you, but it wasn't. It one of them, my buddies. Nah, we didn't know each other. Yeah, we were like two years still from meeting. short story long, I went to watch the men's physique athletes. You're like, holy shit, I'm in love. It was Rob Riches. No. Move the camera. sorry. Maybe have it. It's okay. Go ahead. You can start. I'll figure it out. Yeah. So it was Rob Riches. Wow. So you've seen him in person. Yeah. I got to meet him backstage. And no, yeah, dude. And then after that, I remember, I remember even talking to him being like, I want to compete. This is like, I'm to do this next year. He's like, well, this is what you got. He's got like the British accent. He was super, super nice. And then that's basically like the day I finished watching that I was like, all right. When I looked up shows and I started planning to then go into bodybuilding. And then as you know, I did that for like six years, seven years. was just doing, I did like nine or 10 shows. Yeah. Which we'll talk about in a second, but so that's where we are in my arc right now. have now accepted that I want to be a second phase. Yeah. So first was the P90X and at home and bodybuilding.com website. Now I'm like, all right, I'm in school. I know I hired a coach. and I started training for my first men's physique show in 2013. This is the beginning of you becoming obsessive on one form of fitness. Yeah, exactly. This one, this one I was locked into for a long time. Damn. That's pretty cool. So we'll call the first arc the body. The beginnings. The humble beginnings. At some point in there, over the few years that I was focused on bodybuilding, I also did do kickboxing. Not Jiu Jitsu yet. But I had started a little bit of martial arts because We know that's uh a chunk in my timeline where I go through my martial arts phase. So yeah, I ended up basically researching and getting ready to do my first bodybuilding show. Nice. And then it was all she wrote as they say. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm still doing a home Jerry rig workouts in my basement. Nice. Taking Jack 3D in my arc. I miss that. Bro. One story, I remember when I took Jack 3D, I think we did two and a half scoops of it. It said, do not exceed three. It said, do not exceed one. That shit had something like crack in it or something. That jacked was crazy. It had something illegal in there for sure. I was so itchy and like the pump was crazy, but after I would finish each set, I would just stare at the ground for like 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at nothingness, like the void of space, bro. Look into the abyss and stare back. So, okay. Then I start my university. So I'm like, I'm not, I'm gonna stop playing hockey. Like, yeah, I could play junior A, but I don't really think I have any... Talent. I was more so interested in being with friends and like, cause I didn't really get to do that too often. Cause I had... Friday night games and it was hard for me to go out with and stuff. So at that point in time I valued, I should have probably stuck with the routine, but I valued being with friends and more social time because I didn't get that. So I decided to go to university, played varsity rugby there. then that's when I started doing my bodybuilding. I had a couple friends that were a year up than me that I knew from my high school. and we would go to good life. ah man. Bro. Started with the most throw split ever. Never trained legs. arms, arms, arms, arms. I'm not even shitting you. The entire first year of university, I can't, I can't probably count the amount of times I did legs on one hand maybe. Because my stupid thinking at the time was, bro, I played so much hockey, my legs are fucking huge. I need to catch up with my upper body. Which was kind of true. did have like a disproportionate leg for supper body. So I was doing chest, just chest, then arms, then back. And then I was doing like abs every single day. Yeah. But still want to get like a three day split. shoulders as well. Chest, shoulders, arms back. And we were just rotating, rotating, rotating. And it was the rep ranges were like six to 10. Yeah. the hours were the workouts were like an hour and a half, two hours. god, yeah, that's another thing. Timing has changed so much. And we were just abusing caffeine and pre-workout. Yep. And then we would have our two scoops of protein ready to rock after. So Good Life was your first commercial gym? Yeah. Mine was Premier Fitness. Remember those? Yep. They actually shut down a year after me starting. This is around the same time. Well, now that I've committed to this first bodybuilding show, I at first did it. completely by myself. Oh, no coaching? Well, I had just started working at Wynn Fitness. Okay, so you kind of had an idea of what you were doing. Yeah, and I was training there and then I had... Are you doing three of these? This is my third. I'm on my fourth, I think. We did two with one. I did the first one at 135 and then two at 150. Okay. So I'll wait for you. I'll wait for you. I'll just talk. So I did my first, yeah, like I said, I was probably like 21. And I was like, all right, I want to do a bodybuilding show. And at the time there was a guy at the gym who you know very well as well. think remember Sal. Oh, naturally gifted Asian, Asian grandmaster. He was like my, he was literally my sensei into bodybuilding. So I spent a whole year while in school training every day with Sal. He was basically my coach without me actually asking him to coach me. And you both. Oh, it's before one. My bad. So the first time. He was actually getting ready for a show and that's when I was like, I'd love to do one. He's like, train with me. So I spent a year and a bit training with Sal and then he got me ready for my first show in which I came second of five. And it's because they, it's because they put me in the wrong category. one, lighter category. Well, it goes by height. It's short, medium, tall and short is five, three to five, seven. I'm five, 10. And then it's five, eight to five, 10. And then six, five, 11. They put me in short. So when I walked on stage with Sal was first, I was second. When I walked on stage with Sal, I was a fucking giant. I still have the video, dude. I'm like towering over these people. And then I got second and I was like, hell yeah. It's great because the medium category had like 30 guys. I got really lucky there. That's so funny. I like to think it was because of my physique. But yeah, so that was my first. I did it. I didn't, think the first one natural, did eventually go on gear for a couple of the other shows, full transparency. And then dude, after that, you know, I locked in for like five years. Like while I met you, think I was on my third show maybe I had just competed. So yeah, I just really went hard on the bodybuilding. I paid for coaches for a while. I trained with Sal a couple of times. I ended up doing seven or eight shows in the span of four years. basically two to three shows a year. Man, bro, you're constantly dieting. I was dieting all the time. That's wild. So you had aspirations to get a card. Yeah. And then the first two years I made it all the way to the highest level, the nationals. And then both times I didn't place top five, which you need to. And then after that, I kind of just was like, all right. I think I've like, you know, exhausted this. Yeah. I kind of started getting tired of all the dieting. What's up, buddy? That's what we do. Nice. Yeah. Get back to me. Yeah. Um, yeah. So just very generic, bro. Bodybuilding splits. Then I got into the forums, bodybuilding.com. Um, Z's workouts, cook workouts, jacked on campus. was when I used to do. Yeah, I remember that one. I remember that one. I did so many speed cook workouts. At this point, I understand how to lift, like progressive overload, all that stuff. Yeah, starting to get the idea. But I didn't go to school for it or anything. Yeah. And then I trained like that the entirety of university, right? Put on a lot of weight. I probably left uni sitting at like 210. Yeah. And then um That's when we did that's when we met after I graduated I joined One Health and then we started I Started training for my first bodybuilding show because he kind of got convinced you yeah I think I was literally on like my third one I'm being like you don't want to see some shirtless photos of me, bro. Yeah, yeah No Look how peeled I look. Yeah, look how sick I look. And at that point in time, I was like not really lean because all I focused on was like getting bigger. Putting on size. So I had a bit of, I had like a layer. I still remember it to this day. My dad's like, yeah, you've been lifting all this time. When are you going to get defined? I'm just like- why are you so fat? Yeah, cause I was like thick. Yeah. I wasn't fat, but like I still had a core, but like I was just thick. Yeah. And then this is when the shift change for me to understand how to diet and kind of think about what I'm eating. Yeah. Cause at the time I was doing like a, if it fits your macros and I wasn't even calculating my macros. was just eating in a surplus all the time. then we both started working with the same coach. We started training together for the first show. That was fun, man. That was a good time. Yeah. And yeah, the cardio aspect is that's kind when I started adding cardio into it. Yeah. So it took me a long time to even do cardio because I was doing all of the athletic stuff, sports and whatnot. Continue in a second, I don't want to you off. I'll do all three and then you'll do all three. So it's face pull, straight arm pull over, barbell curl. Okay. So we'll go 10 to 15 for all three and then we'll take turns. That way it's easier. I'll start, you can keep talking. So yeah, then I trained for my first bodybuilding show. I was like, holy, this is cool. This is fun. It's so fun. pushes your discipline to a new level, right? You don't understand how hard dieting is until you actually do it. And some people do it for more than the minimum required amount of time, which I would say is like at least three months you need. I would say 16 weeks. Yeah. It's kind of usually how I would do it. So yeah, I did that. Then we transitioned to the UFC gym. Oh yeah. And it's just been like pretty much weight training and bodybuilding this this entire time. Nice. Like sick, that heavy six, then working on volume afterwards, starting to learn different techniques with time under tension, controlled negatives, that type of stuff. So kind of improving the repertoire of movements. I'm just going bring this barbell over here. But I didn't really change my training style for a long time. years is it? Let's see. About 18. So about when did we start at 45? 2018. 2018, yeah. And I started training in 2011. That's about like seven years of just straight up bodybuilding. Bodybuilding while also playing rugby and still playing sports. Yeah, the only cardio I got was from like playing intramural sports like handball, right? Whatever and I would also play varsity rugby in university But other than that straight up bodybuilding bro split the entire time. good. And then we met kept that going for a bit I did two shows I prepped for my second show at UFC and then when we started working at f45 is when I completely shifted uh Not only from bodybuilding but to the functional training doing more cardio, working on just my overall, you know, proprioception and which was already good, but I want to make it better. Started running, you know, so shifting the shift. What are we gonna go ahead? even pay attention. Face pull, straight arm pull over, bicep curl. Okay. You can go probably go heavier. It's 15, 15 reps. to 15 for all. Nice. Yeah. So kind of. Similar for me when I started the bodybuilding different origins though. Yeah, the beginning was definitely different but when I uh did my first show with Sal back in 2012 then 2012 to 2019 Pretty much I was 2018 I would say actually I just kept doing shows because I was trying to my pro card. I kept dieting experimented with Supplements quote-unquote that you get from a guy in a dark alley. Learned what not to do with those. And it was good. just, that was most of my, my fitness was just all bodybuilding. Cardio was done through like bodybuilding cardio. So it was like incline walking, stair master, that kind of stuff. And then in about 2018, when I then started working at a 45, I got really into that. I started doing a lot more functional training, like three, four times a week. And I still do my bodybuilding here and there, like just for fun. And that carried on for a couple of years. And then actually, sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. As I was finishing bodybuilding in like 2017, 2018, I was still competing. had, that's when I really got into martial arts. Yeah, right. I went through that phase where I was competing in that as well while still doing bodybuilding So I was doing both but again, I was on performance enhancing drugs. The recovery was much easier so I did kickboxing kind of in the background over the years and then I got really into Wrestling and jujitsu, you know that yeah Did that for two years pretty much five days a week also while bodybuilding I competed while training for Jiu Jitsu at the same time. That was my last show, 2018, with Martin. He coached me for that one. I looked the best, my best show. And then was getting ready for one more than the pandemic happened. And that was the last time I took bodybuilding seriously. But I ended up- I remember we were both like, let's do one more. That was our last one and then the pandemic. Yeah. And I was pretty, I was in pretty good shape too. I was like, fuck. I only did two. Yeah. And I was quite happy with my second one. Did the summer shredding, the first one ever. Went to Halfa Land in Texas. Yeah, that was sick. With your Goku hair. Yeah, I dyed my hair blonde. Well, yeah, this entire time our training, I say, has stayed pretty consistent in terms of the style. Yeah, bodybuilding and power, strength bodybuilding, for sure. Essentially, weightlifting combined with bodybuilding together with a big focus on bodybuilding. Yes. So we were building our strength, power. and also the shape and size of our muscles at the same time. Yeah. Through muscle hypertrophy. my God. Say that again. ah But then once we started doing 45, I'd say my fitness trajectory changed entirely. Yeah. I did my last show while I was coaching at a 45. I remember. was also dieting and whatnot and it was hell. I remember that. We got through it and then Afterwards I was like, you know what? I want to do this anymore. No, no, no. I was still down to try a third time. I had like number three in mind. I'm going to try and come first this time, do even better. And uh like you said, the pandemic happened and things changed entirely. But throughout the entire pandemic and all that, we had a still a big, I think we shifted more towards powerlifting. We did. This is when our arcs kind of fused together. And we were focusing on lifting heavy, heavy We were training together a lot over the years, but we were both doing kind of different things. Yeah. Like I was really focused on the martial arts. You were doing more of the bodybuilding. I forgot that I also did Muay Thai for like six to eight for a little bit. Yeah. I was going to Which was fun. That was a good form of cardio. Yeah. Then I did two jujitsu competitions and then same thing, pandemic hit. And then. Over the pandemic, and you were just working out in that garage gym. At least we had access to a gym, right? for two years. And that Just trying to get extremely strong and... Yeah, that time it was straight, like, just lifting heavy all the fuck of time. We'd work out for like two, three hours. We had nothing else to do. Yeah. It was just good to be out of the house. It was good to be out of the house. Didn't do any martial arts because obviously I couldn't. And then pandemic ended. We came here. Kept doing the body, but then when I started coming here, as you know, I then switched to powerlifting. I joined the powerlifting gym. was like, this looks fun. I know I did the show. You did the show first. I did the show first. We were both here. You did the show in the first few months of being here. Yep. And then I was like, fuck, you forgot the most important part. You came first. I came first in my weight class. OK, nice. I've come third three times. Anyway, so. Yeah. Then I came here. I started doing powerlifting, hired a coach. I actually held records for a little bit. I know you did. It's called bullshit. It's because your origin story is the rugby and hockey. It's okay. I don't hold them anymore. any who's yeah. Did that did powerlifting for two years, sprinkled in some bodybuilding, but really focused on powerlifting for the last two years or so. And then the most recent has been jumping back into functional training with high rocks. So now I've done two high rocks. You're a high rock bro now. Yeah. So I've done like you're still bodybuilding. You're still zoned in on one thing though. I'm still pretty locked in on the high rocks. You gotta fucking just... Well right now, ever since I retired from powerlifting, you're more open. I'm now I'm kind of like you. Dude, I've been doing like Pilates. Yeah, good. I've just been doing random shit, which is nice. So if I were to compare my training now to when I was... 10 years younger with 10 years younger, I was so obsessed and so diligent. Like today's chest day, I can't do anything else. I can only do chess and I got to prep for chess. Whereas now it's like, whatever. I'll do fucking this today. I'll do that today. I'm not really, I'm just training for fun versus anything else with still the focus being on body. Love it. Yeah. Right. Cause you training. Cause you love to do it. Yes. I train because it's enjoyable versus like I have a goal. I mean, my goal is still Stay in good shape, maybe get a little leaner, whatever. I have like the basic goals, but it's not as important to me as it was when I was getting ready for a show or getting ready for a fight or getting ready for a high rocks. You know what I mean? It's like, now it's more chill. But it's also, think as you get, it's weird. I feel like because I've been training for so long, now you got that like old man mature muscle. So it's like, it's hard for me to It's only gonna get better. Like I, if I don't train for a week, if I don't body build for a week, it's not gonna lose all my. Before if I missed a day or like if I left my creatine at home, I would drive back home, get my creatine. Cause I'd be like, I'm fucked if I don't, if I don't do it now. So the mentality has changed quite a bit. would say so. So right now it's just random. went back to jiu jitsu for the first time. I want to try that shit. You should come Saturday. Okay. I'm going to make time for it because it was fun. The huge difference in my training and your training is that I wouldn't say that I get super, super like enclosed in a certain form like you would have. Yeah. get that lock into one thing. Yeah. I've always had like pretty flexible and flexible ideals. So I'm stumped. Like we're getting there. We're here now. And after the bodybuilding phase and we joined this gym, I did powerlifting just for one meet. Just to try it. Yeah, knock it off the list. I tried it. Maybe I'll come back to it, but the training is very intense. So immediately afterwards, I was like, you know what? don't want to do functional. And then I had ideas of doing an Ironman. I I trained for like four or five months for an Ironman. But then I wish I still followed through with it, but it was just so expensive, bro. You have no idea how much it costs to join the race. You have to buy the suit. bought the bike. you couldn't even do anything. Couldn't take vacation. I remember the guys like you have to dedicate your life. It was super intensive. I was at the very end of my training. was doing like two hour bike sessions on my Peloton. Oh my God. Just like steady state. He's like, you need to push this much watts for two hours. Oh my God. That sounds horrible. was rough. I was coming out of that thing drenched. Oh, that sounds But like I had to bow out of the race. I wish I had the time to do it, but It was like six grand to enter the race. all in buying the suit, buying the bike, signing up for the race, the travel. Oh, I didn't even calculate the travel. It would have been more. That's why all these middle-aged guys are doing this because they can afford it. Yeah, it's like midlife crisis. But I still do want to do one one day. It could be five times That kind of just goes, we're almost at the end of the workout, end of the episode. I told you we could do it. Oh, this is actually the end of it. Yeah. I got one more. Last set. ah And now we're here. So like my main focus is kind of I call it building and refining my body's armor. So I do things for longevity. uh Things that I enjoy like we're bodybuilding weightlifting right now, but I also do Pilates. I do yoga, sometimes hot yoga. I go on runs. I'm focusing on running more. I do HIIT. 45 so like a little mixture of everything. Yeah, I that's kind of like I have like that Goku Ma'am It's Monday. Okay, mindset of my go So a little extra espresso this morning. Okay. Yeah, we're good. How are you? Fantastic. You know, like the Goku just like always get better, always get better. Yeah, I think that's kind of like, uh, it's always getting better at different things. Nice. Not zoning in on the one thing, just like trying to be more open to it. jack of all trades kind of thing. Yeah. Uh, it's just like a jet. Like now it's just general fitness. Yeah. Just want to be all in all encompassing strong athletic. All around. All encompassing. Yeah, I think that's good. I think I'm at that point too. And now it's like if I want to do high rocks or a competition or something, it's like, all right, this is, I get myself three months to dial dial in on it. But yeah, definitely the training has changed. It was like, you know, the 90X at home workouts. And I went to the gym and I did eight, nine shows. And then I did martial arts. I competed in that. But I did powerlifting and high rocks. So kind of a little over the years, I've done a little bit of everything. some soccer sprinkled in there. I did that for a while as well. But yeah, I think right now I'm kind of at the same point in my training where it's just like, train to feel good, train for fun, train to get a pump. Like average week for me is like- finding a nice pump. Yeah, average week for me is like, yeah, what's your average split? Let's go. Beginning split versus today's split. Okay, that'll be the- Because we've gone over our entire- So 19 year old me, my split would be five days a week. chest, back, legs, shoulders, arms, and like three to four days of steady state cardio, straight bodybuilding. Now my split is like three days of some of weightlifting, trying in those three days to at least hit two to three really heavy movements, quad, deadlift, bench, pull-ups, rows, whatever. And then a bunch of accessories. One or two days of functional fitness. Like, you wanna do some abs? some leg raises to finish. Read my mind. Yeah. Then like two days of functional training, whether that's F45 or something here. And then fun workouts, random day of Pilates, random day of jujitsu. So that's kind of my split right now. Nice. So if 20 year old me saw this, he'd be like, that's not very optimal. Right. Kinesiology. Yeah. Yeah. You're not, you're not recovering properly. But we have whoops to tell us now. Exactly. We have the technology. Nice. What about you? So I'm to go for like my first splits in university because they were kind of constant. It would be a five day, five day training split, sometimes six, but I'd say five on average. Yeah. And it was, let's say after I kind of grew out my first year of just doing upper body, I then started doing dead lifts, squats, like everything. Yeah. I smartened up. So I'll go for my second year. um Five day split, it would be one to two lowers and the other three were upper, but they were split. Push, pull, then legs, whatever it was afterwards. And then it was mainly bodybuilding with a focus on lifting a little bit heavy as well. Mainly the volume training for hypertrophy versus today. I have a three, four weightlifting day, bodybuilding, whatever, but it's like you said. four to six heavy reps of a core movement, maybe two if I'm feeling it. And then it's just accessories after eight to 10 reps, 10 to 12, 15 reps maybe. But I like to focus in that four to eight range. I think that's the best for your buck. Everything afterwards, like 10 to 12 is volume, burnout, all that stuff. I do it with my clients at the end, just to get that extra burning feeling for them. And so other than the three, four days weightlifting, I do like 45. I'll do an appellates or a yoga. I'll run one to two times a week, maybe three. Yeah, that's true. I got to do that. And then I'll do running is considered cardio. And then maybe sometimes I'll even do like stair master inclined walk once a week. Yeah. I walk the dog a lot. I do want to try and get into. uh The jiu-jitsu? Jiu-jitsu, yeah. yeah. feel like the jitsu. I think I'm just gonna do it like once a week, once every two weeks, just for fun. It's good cardio. I burned like 1,400 calories when I went last time. Just two hours. Boxing would be fun. Yeah, boxing, Muay Thai, any of that stuff is great. That's kind of where I'm at right now. Just three, four good lifts, two to three random days of whatever I feel like, whether that's Pilates or jiu-jitsu or martial arts or whatever. Yeah, more fitness stuff, So after we've gone over our entire fitness journey, you know what? You know what the constant is? It's that we've been doing this for a shit ton of time. 15 plus years. And we've been into so many. We dipped our toes into so many different realms and things. Yeah. And when you meet people that are like, how do you do it? How do you stay like this? Well, listen to this fucking episode. Yeah, like 16 years 18 years like this shit doesn't happen overnight. Yeah, you gotta make it funny what you like You gotta change it up. Yeah, sometimes zone in a little bit maniacally like you but there's also always just do shit there's also people like The old-school euros were like I do same workout 27 years and they do the same thing but who cares? It's the time. Yeah, if it works. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, you could totally do that Yeah, we like trying a bunch of new things but what but the point I was making is that we've always been doing something for this amount of time. It's always something in the fitness And there's that compounding effect, Whereas I'm sure you hear it every day with new prospects or like current clients are like, I need to get fit in two weeks. you're like, or like three months, three months you can do something, like, you, you, you're better off just making this a lifestyle choice, right? That's what I try to, we try to convince people as life. It's funny when clients or people ask like, you're in good shape. How long did that take? 17 to 18 years. Like what? I'm like, what the fuck do you mean? It takes a lifetime to get to where you it. And I'm not even where I want to be anyways. So that's our mindset, right? Yeah. But you're always striving for better. You're always able to improve. Yeah. It's not like there's an end goal because if you were to reach an end goal, what do you do after? Yeah. You always want to. And yeah, I think that's you're making a point. Give yourself like small goals. Like, hey, I wanna compete or I wanna do this or maybe I wanna bench 225 or I wanna deadlift 500, whatever it is. Then you have it and then you hit that and then you switch the goals. All right, now I wanna be able to run a five minute kilometer. Perfect, okay, that's your next goal. So I feel like if you always have something to strive for, it's definitely easier, but yeah. I think we're good. Anything else you wanna add? Yeah, last one. One more set. Yep. What would you say? That's a terrible bro. Do it right. What would you say your goal or like few micro goals currently are. Do you have like a big goal or do you have micro goals? do actually. I'm going to do three more. So right now actually literally as of today, I don't know why I decided to do it. I want to do like a three month actual cut and like, so I think I told you I like for myself. Okay. Yeah. It's my birthday. So I'm going to document it as well so I have an excuse so I can make a video about it. you're going to start in January? No, I'm starting like today. Bro, it's Christmas season. I know. I decided to say fuck it. I'm just going to. What do mean? We have a holiday party next weekend. I'll track the alcohol. I said I'm going to track it. I said I was going to stick to it. I'll just track it. So my short term goal right now is a three month cut. I want to lose 10 pounds, like three to five percent body fat. I'm going actually go do a body scan right after this. so I can document it. Yeah, I'm gonna do a quick scan. And then that's my short-term goal and then long-term goals. Probably definitely another high rocks. Probably do another powerlifting meet at some point. Probably compete in jujitsu again, but those are all kind of like on the horizon. So nice. That's it. That is it. What about me? You're not going to ask me what mine are? don't care about your goals. right. What do you got? ah I got I want, I don't, I wanna do a marathon. Ooh, that's a good one. I would just put it under the belt. Yeah. I wanna put another, I wanna get a pro high rocks in there, but overall more of a focus on a bit heavier lifts, like four to six rep range. Nice. We'll just keep building off of that. That's it. Small goals, nothing crazy. Good shit. I don't wanna do a full Ironman. All right. We'll see about that. Let's go film your Let's go get a body scan. It's gonna be the last clip. All right, peace, y'all.