You Aren't Who We Thought You Were

Coach Nygren and Ian discuss the "upsets" that were Boston and Denver in Round 1 of the NBA playoffs, round 2 predictions, and more!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Test, test. Okay, so we're working that way. Brett, these are great.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Um I know. They're nice, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Shout out to Road.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Road microphones, yeah. Not a sponsor, but some of the greatest microphones. Okay, so um Jalen Brown thinks Joel Embiid is like the biggest flopper on the planet. I sent you this on purpose because I knew you'd roll your eyes, but um talk about a sore loser, first off. Like that just reeks of like I'm glad you mentioned that. I'm bad on a lot.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

I'm mad on a lot. I'll I'll talk about that. Yeah. Um, so yeah. I don't think he's wrong. I do think flopping is is an issue. Yeah. And there are many people across the league that do it. One of the worst ever, it was years ago, and they're that this player is no longer that bad, even though they are they're occasionally indulging in the foul, is Jokic. Jokic, when he was a young new player, was the worst. Um he even had the arm motion, like he'd flail his arms, yeah, and got a lot of got a lot of letters early on in his career for for flopping. I think every star, once they find out that if they show something, they might get a call. This is every player does it. Every player does it, even not even to the stars. Marcus Smart is one of the worst, right? Um you could go down the league. Now, I don't blame the players. Officiating needs to change, the league needs to change it. They need to do bigger fines or do something to change it because it's almost like the we talk about the foul baiting stuff that these guys do. Again, the most efficient way to score in basketball, period, is from the free throw line. It is the most points per play, period. It's not even close. It's like almost a half a point more from the free throw line than anywhere else. So I'm going to the line too. I'm doing my best to try to draw fouls. The blame goes to the player that they're ruining, you know, Jalen Brown says uh flopping is ruining the game, whether he meant to put that on in beat or not. But the officiating is not helping its cause. It's the officiating. The players certainly embellish and try and act, but the if the officials say, I'm not calling that, or I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do that, then they won't do it.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Then they won't do it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

And the I was thinking about this today actually, because I knew this was gonna come up. The notion of back in my day, bullshit, which is absolute bullshit, it was more physical in the 90s. It was, you know, you could punch a guy or you know, hit a guy off and and not get a foul called. The biggest difference between then and now, our athletes are bigger, faster, stronger now.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

They are absolutely yeah, no question.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

The league is bigger, there's more cameras. Totally. You cannot get away with a weak side, you know, subtle hit to the kidney. Like you could you used to be able to do that shit all the time. Like you watched Lakers, Celtics, you know, Sixers, Knicks from any era, and you're like, oh my god, they used to punch you. They used to literally hit each other.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Because they couldn't see it.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

The referees couldn't see it all. Now we have a camera on both sides. We have, I don't know how many cameras in the in the gym right now, but it's got to be dozens.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

There's tons. I yeah, dozens. I mean, the fact that there's not an angle for certain things in other sports blows my mind.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

And and now you have you know, players now probably are like, they're more um, the refs allow more chatter. The the refs allow more discussion to go on as far as like, hey, he's hitting me down here, or can you call that foul or whatever? I just think the I don't think the fouls are more than they used to be. I think they are seen more now. And they're all of a sudden there's this notion that oh, these players are soft, they want all these calls. Yeah, these are Jokic, to his credit, gets fouled every play. Every play. Yeah, and a lot of other guys do too. The bigger guys do. All your physical guys, the inside guys, get fouled every play. You think Wembin Yama doesn't get pushed every time he touches the players? Every single time. And you see him, the the difference that I see, and this is why I love Wembin Yama, and watching him play, is I remember the play was, I forget which player, yeah. Wembenyama like jumped for a um a lob in the game seven or whatever it was, and somebody shoved him when he was in the air, and they called the foul, and uh he gets down to the floor and he's on his back and he's clapping like I I you can't you can't fuck with me. Yeah, he's he you shoved me down, but you got the foul. We're winning this game, and you shove me only because you're frustrated you're getting your asses kicked.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

So a guy like that who is taking, I don't think Wen Banyama flops at all. I think maybe he, you know, he's just slight, but he does not embellish a call that I've seen.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

I don't think he does at all.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

And you know, Shea may on occasion, and um you know, definitely Jokic does, Luca does, LeBron does, um, ever they all do, everyone does it. So if you want to stop it, it's not the players' fault. The players are benefiting from it, change the officiating.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yeah, they're operating within the confines of what it is that they're doing and what it is that's being presented to them as athletes. But you know, this this goes to kind of the overarching theme of these playoffs now. That, you know, you and I have had plenty of discussions about who certain teams actually are. You know, so Jalen Brown sitting there saying, Oh, you know, the refs had an agenda and that's why Philly won. No. No. Boston lost because they're not who they thought they were this season. Uh the same thing could go for Denver. You know, like it's very obvious. And you know, throughout the course of the season, I had I had conversations with, you know, people in my life. I you and I have texted back and forth where I I've called out, you know, and this is to alleviate any of our perceived Denver nugget bias here, but I've called out a lot of their mental conditioning. Like, yeah, these are professional athletes, their physical conditioning, you know, it yeah, whatever. But they so many times throughout the season, injuries or not, couldn't get it done in crunch time or the clutch. And that to me reeks of a team that is maybe a little mentally soft. And to expand on that and why there's so much noise now about roster turn or over and how this is gonna go is Jamal Murray, for example, hasn't been, you know, people circle 2003 and just like, oh my god, yes, he was so good. 2023. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 2023, sorry. Um and they circle that and they're like, oh my god, he was he was so good, you know, especially in the Lakers series and yada yada, and we don't win a title without him. That's true. You can't Denver doesn't win a title without anybody on their roster at that time, but he hasn't been very good in the playoffs since in two in 2024. He was average at best. Last year disappeared against OKC. This year disappeared against Minnesota, and all he can do is score, and if he's not doing that, he's a total net zero or negative.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

And so it I a couple things. The way he scores matters because he's a heavy jump shot guy.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Uh shoots the ball a lot, has the ball in his hands a lot, and what I will say that what I will give him flowers for is he played the most minutes of any starter. Sure, yeah. He uh and I mentioned this a week ago or whatever, but 133 games missed by Denver starters. That's a giant number. Yeah, it's two four guys were out for significant time, and I'm talking double digit time, and some and uh Gordon for 40 plus games. I think Brown uh Braun was 30 in change, but Murray played 72 games, right? They missed 10 games only, right? Um so Denver doesn't get to third without him. Yeah, no. And they with even his shortcomings, the the the shortcoming that that bothers me is he and Jokic are your two best offensive players. They are the two, they're the best, one of the best combos in the league by statistics. Yeah. Scoring, efficiency, all the things, plus minuses. They're also the two most uh uh exposed defenders on the team. Totally. And not to, you know, Jaden was right. Yeah. And when he said that, it wasn't after when I was like, oh, see, now when he said that, I was like, true story.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Yeah, true in the moment, I was like, that's not wrong. Well, and and to the point that I'm trying to make here with this team is he said it and then they came out and got their asses handed to him immediately in the next game. You but so and where's your mental toughness?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

They don't so Denver Murray, Jokic, um, Cam Johnson maybe are just not that good at defenders.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

No, but Cam's one of the few players that actually showed up to try to win him this series.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Him and um uh Spencer Jones loved him. Tim Hardaway Jr. is also not a great defender. No, and and his job isn't really that. Yeah. So here's here's the reality of Denver, uh, for those fans that are listening. The record is better than you are.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Third was better than you were or are. If your whole thing is together, I think you do threaten to win the West. Like in a if things fall your way, you threaten to win the West. But even if that whole roster played together, you're still not anywhere near as physical, as connected, as you're not as young either. Yeah, as young and physical as either San Antonio or Oklahoma City or or Minnesota. Yep. Like these this Terrence Shannon Jr. thing, everybody was like, where did he come from?

SPEAKER_02 10:32

What do you mean, where did he come from? The Nuggets had the Nuggets had game tape on him in game five, where he scored 15 points in 14 minutes, and then he comes in and kicks their butt again in game six, and it it's like they're surprised.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Well, and so again, the Ayu and Shannon are young, athletic, fast dudes. Totally at the point of attack. The guys that are guarding them are just not as good. Like Brown was a really good defender his first couple years in the league. That's why he that's why he got on the court. He was an inept offensive player. He could make a three, but not very well. He could go to the rim. He led this team in dunks, I think, a year ago or something like that. He like led, I don't know, some crazy dunk stat.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

There's just a lack of but he didn't get better at the offensive part of his game this season.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Uh yeah, I it's it's it's tough to and and so I I'm looking at the offense. So Denver had a number the best offense in the league. Yeah, they had the most efficient offense in the league. So whether or not they were good at it or not, I I would just point to say they were really good based on statistics. Sure. The thing that I would say again to wrap up Denver is the overall, and maybe this is the mental side of it, the mental toughness. I don't know if it's toughness or if it's just a competitiveness on the defensive side. Yeah. So you look at all the teams that are really good, and I'll throw Detroit in there because they're still good. I think it's in that in that boat. I think you know, these guys that you're like, are you competitive or not? And San Antonio, Oklahoma City are the two most competitive motherfuckers on the on the in the league.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Yeah, it's in it's insane.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

They're coming after you, and they they know that the defensive side is where they have to figure it out. Now, whether that's their leadership and coaching, what I think it is, is their best players. Now, Oklahoma City's best player isn't their best defender, but he's not inept. He's he's part of the he's part of the rotate Shay. Shea is still guarding the ball, he's still rotating, he's still in the right spot, whether he's not a lockdown defender necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

And he's still fucking with you, too.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

But the other four dudes are. Yeah. So Shay, you just you roam or you do you rotate. We need you to rotate, but you don't have to go up there and guard, you know, their best player, you know, all night long. No, but no, but he'll put a hand on you and let you know he's there. But the other dudes, you know, Chet, Williams, uh Lou Dort, like all they are and they're locked.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Hartenstein?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Locked in. Hartenstein's locked in. Um Caruso. Caruso is an absolute dog defensively. He just is smarter. Um, I'm blanking on the other kid, Kasen Wallace. Like when K when they won, it was because Kasen Wall, not because Kasen Wallace, but Kasen Wallace was like, I am gonna just guard my ass off, right? And they just understood that's how I get on the court. In Denver, I don't think there is that that aura of if I guard, I can play. It's like, well, if I can, you know, exist in the offense that's surrounded around an elbow guy and Jamal Murray, if I can space up and and run this cute stuff that they run and make an open jump shot, I can play. Yeah, which is Tim Hardaway Jr. And so they just don't put the they may put it on, uh put the importance of defense in practice. I'm sure they do. There's no way they're not, they're not, you know, talking about defense at least, but they just don't do it. Now, one thing that just made me think of when I said the word practice, there is none. Yeah, the league, no, and this is no bullshit. The league has a practice problem. Yeah, so if you talk to anybody in the league that's part of a team or at plays or coaches, or they they cannot find time to practice. And because of rest days or travel days or whatever, it's difficult to find time to practice.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

I mean, the traveling days are it's it's brutal.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Now, their travel is is very pleasant, don't get me wrong, but it's still travel and time zones and across so and you get to a city and you're like, Well, we have an extra day, you know, we'd like a day off because we just came, whatever. The practice time is almost nil. So what you know, years ago, and not again, this is not back in my day, but years ago, they we made a point to even the young guys, the bottom half of the of the roster, they played every day. They were in a full court game all the time. Now we would rest, we give Andre Miller the day off, we'd give Gallo the day off, you know, we give all these all our starters kind of the day off if they needed it, but Andre would Andre refused to take it. Andre would still play, which is why I love Andre Miller. Yeah, it's I mean, that's that's great. Um they don't practice enough. So even if you did have so you could you could scheme your way into a defensive like mindset if you practiced it. Where these younger teams, Oakland City, San Antonio, Detroit, um, Cleveland's a little bit like this. Um that's about it. They're so young and they're just like, I'm just younger, faster. Uh Minnesota. Yeah, they're just like, I'm gonna go guard. And it's sort of like this under 25 mentality of just like I'm a bad motherfucker and I'm gonna go guard you. It's just missing from um from Denver. Now, Boston, not to pivot, the other team.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

No, I mean you you have to.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

They they still have a some young defenders, they still have some young dudes that want to go hard. Um, they're mostly offensive again as well. You know, Tatum is not a great defender, um, Brown is. Yeah. Um they I just think that they they didn't have their whole team going together. And I think again, the reason why they're not calling for for uh Missoula to get fired is because they limped into the the the regular season. They they were supposed to be dead this year, yeah. Completely dead in the water, like maybe make the playoffs. Um there was even talk of like, do we just scrap this season and start over when Tatum comes back? Well, they ended up second, yeah, right. The East is shit, or it's parodied. I wouldn't say it's shit, but it is parodied. And so I think they had a they reap the benefits of a maybe a I don't know what their schedule was. I'm talking out of my ass, but maybe they had a softer schedule or a softer conference, at least. But they played well. They have got the sixth man of the year, Peyton Pritchard, a year or two ago. They've got Jalen Brown, who's an all-star, they've got um these guys, Baylor Shireman came out of nowhere. Derek White is a you know a really good top, you know, 50 NBA players. University of Colorado. Uh C CU CCU Colorado Springs. Um, shout out to um all the Springs guys. But um Alex Welsh, but he's he didn't play very well. Like he had a he had a you know, he's a I love Derek White, but he just did not play as well as he normally does. So Boston, again, their records are better than they are.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Yeah. But the what's funny is you brought up the East and the East being, you know, pretty high in parodied. Um but I had this thought on the way here to record this. You know, people always talk about the East versus the West, which is the better conference. Are we sure the West is actually that much better, or is the West just more cannibalistic? And well, the the reason I'm asking this is because in the East you have one team that's clearly a cut above everyone else. In the West, you have two teams. One could argue maybe you have two, three teams in the east as well. But like Boston hit the two, Denver hit the three.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

What I think it's yeah, so I think the bottom of the east is way worse than the bottom of the west. Sure. So, and I would point to like Portland, for example.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

No one saw Portland play earlier because I was courtside at a game for Portland. They were badass.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Live, live. And I love watching Portland. Portland is that job, whoever gets that job and Portiago Splitter, um, whoever gets that job, it has is you know, uh, it's gonna be a fun season. I don't see how you don't at least get like I mean they're literally interviewing under him. I know, but it's really shitty. The ownership, I think, is is doing them a disservice to to just publicly say we're interviewing any. He earned the job. He did earn the job. They they played, they should not even have been in the playoffs, but because you lose your coach, start the season, and things are bad. But they've their roster's really good. Like you watched, they were fun to watch in the playoffs. They were um they threatened every game, they play hard, they have young guys, athletic guys. Debbie Advia is a bona fide all-star. Um, Scoot Henderson played well. Uh Holiday played great. Holiday's so good. I love watching.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Bob Williams out of nowhere just dunking everything.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

He was fine.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

Like, man, like what a contributor this season, too. Like, I I loved watching him play, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

It was like, yeah, like you and does and does Dame Lillard come back and now they're like the Portland is a I would put money on Portland to take the over next year for Portland, whatever you should do. Yeah, yeah. But that is to say, again, the bottom of the West, I think, is better than the bottom of the east. And so this is gonna lead to my idea that if if Adam Silver calls, is he calling me right now? No, no, he's not calling me right now, but he he should. He should. Adam Silver, when you hear this podcast and you will, when the playoffs are done. Well, first of all, we need to change the schedule. We need to have every team play each other the equal amounts. Yep. So not four in the east or four in your conference, four in your conference and two in your non-conference. Everybody play the three games, or just work it out. Do the schedule uh uh clod claud the schedule and have it have it come out and just play play, everybody plays the exact same amount. And then when the playoffs start, you re-rack it. Yes, 100%. One through 16 it. Yep, the divisions are worthless. Anybody that hangs a Pacific division banner on their ceiling again should be kicked square in their dick. It's the dumbest thing ever. Oh, you won the division, good job. It's like when even conference.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

I don't care about conferences worth the conference banners crack.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

It only matters, conference only matters now because of the way the schedule is. That's why it matters. So you eastern teams play each other more than you know, the Western teams.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

NBA Cup banners are bullshit, too, by the way. Also bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

But I do like the NBA. It and I had a somebody else had another idea, and I'll say this in a second for tanking or for the bottom um for the lottery. But I do think uh play each other equally, get rid of the conferences. We can fly quickly. We used to have conferences because of buses, yeah, because of short flights, because of a commercial flight. So we used to you needed to play in your area more often. I get it. We don't need that anymore. No, like literally, they had when the new teams come in, it's gonna be, I think, is Minnesota gonna be in the east now? Like all those teams, like Memphis was a western team.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Yeah, Minnesota would be in the east, I think.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Well, Memphis is gonna go east. Yeah, I think I don't know how they're gonna split it up, but I know Memphis will be in the east because they're gonna add two new western teams. So maybe Minnesota and Memphis become eastern teams. Anyway, long story, much longer. Play each other equally when the season's over, re-racket one through 16 and play that thing out. Because the two best teams right now, and it's been like this for a while, where you know, the Chicago in the 90s or whatever, the two best teams were the Knicks and the Bulls, the Cavaliers and the Bulls, the And they knocked each other off before the finals. Right. Yeah, and and you know, it was the the two best teams were never, you know, the Lakers and the Rockets. It was always like, well, maybe when you know, when Kobe, the Kobe's era, it was the Western Conference teams were really good.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

And they were better than the Eastern Conference. Like, so I just think re racking it is, in my opinion, that's how you would you would change everything for this. You'd get it, you'd get the best champion.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

That's something that the NBA could learn from the NHL because the NHL's having a serious problem with seeding where division rivals are getting knocked off way too soon. Yeah. You know, it's like the avalanche in the wild. Theoretically, this matchup should probably be a Western Conference Finals matchup. You know, it had Dallas won. It's the same concept. So yeah, I I I agree with you. Re-racket.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Screw it all. Let the two actual best teams play each other for the title.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah. And speaking of, so I forget who, and I'll give the credit when I remember who told me this. Um, it was a great idea. It was not my idea, so credit goes to somebody. Um, if you miss the playoffs, the teams that don't make the playoffs play in a tournament and play in a tournament for the lottery.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

Cool. And you got to win that to win the lottery.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

You get winner of the winner of the of the the the postseason tournament for the non-playoff teams gets the number one pick.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

You know, for someone who's not very soccer loving.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Is that a soccer thing?

SPEAKER_02 23:05

This is very close to like relegation discussion.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Well, and it's but but that but that's it, you know, it's like if you want to fix tanking or you want to fix, you know, that bottom of the the new rules that they put in place, I I get, and I'm trying to understand how that there's a three-two-one rule they have where certain teams get three ping pongs and some get two and some get one. Yeah. And it's I do it's just it's still not really gonna solve a whole lot of it. I do think if you played it out, you know, you'd find out how tough is the team. Like how, how, if you're like the you know, the how much do they want it? Right. Like if you're the 10th team and you miss the play-in, um you know, it's like just to note, like Philly was a play-in team. Yeah, and they beat Boston. Yep. Like, so there's and they are running away. I mean, they're gonna be able to get it. Let's find out how competitive you actually are, yep, and play for your your ping pong ball.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

I don't think I don't know why that's a big imagine, like you get extra revenue, you put it on TV, you get, you know, you get extra games. Now the players association probably won't go for it, but that's that's what's in the way is the players' association, because they'll say, Well, we played our 82 games, we missed the playoffs, we're done.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Fine, then how do your G League teams duke it out?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

I don't know, but it's a one, yeah. Well, and that wouldn't be that'd even be way worse. But um, it'd just I don't know if you know anyone would tune in for that. But um I would tune in, I love watching that they you know it's like there'd be what there'd be 14 teams left over, now 16 teams with the two teams being added, so that's perfect. One through 16, yep. Play that shit out. Yep, you know, like highest seed gets the home court, and you know, it's just like any one game. Yep, one game. Yep, not a series, just no, just one game. And if you know, if you don't, if the if you don't care, then don't care. And then take your take your 12th pick in the draft.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

What because at most it's an extra eight games? Uh you win them all?

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Uh no, four.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Four.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Okay, four. Sixteen, eight, four, two. Oh, yeah, four, two, yeah. Or fifth, five, five games.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

Yeah, five games.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

16, 8, 4, 2, yeah, yeah. Five games.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Five games.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

So, and then you earn you earn the right to do it. And pay him, you know, there's there's money to pay him. You know, you could pay them extra, put money at the end of the state. Sell some extra tickets. I don't know. But I just think I think if you really want to make it a competitive, I I just get so lost on some teams just aren't competitive, and you can watch some players you know just aren't competitive. Like, yeah, the you know, whether or not you Peyton Watson chose not to play for any reason other than his injury, if that's what you believe, because that's what's being floated around, that's unacceptable. Like, totally, if you decided, well, I had a really good, you know, partion of this season and I'm now tradable and I'm gonna make a lot of money, and I really don't want to play in these playoffs, that's a problem. Like, that's a if I'm a GM, I'm like, I don't want to fuck with that.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Like, yeah, I don't want you around anyway. No, like trust me, I've watched a lot of non-competitive basketball. You know, I'm from Illinois.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, no, the fun part about even the playing stuff is like, for example, Charlotte, you're like, oh my god, this is fun. These guys want to play, these guys are trying to win this thing. You know, let's let's win this playing game. Golden State, too. Like, let's try to win this playing thing. Like, it's it matters, and you find out, you know, who's good enough to do this stuff. Because if you get in, who knows what happens? Philadelphia. Yep. Played in. There they are, second round. Yep. And you know, it's like, but at the same time, you know, Philadelphia's backcourt, they're really good. Edge comb and tie um um I'm blanking on his name. Um the guard from Kentucky starter. Anyway, it doesn't matter. They're good, they're really good. Um, and so it's it's just like play play it out. Let's play basketball.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

All right, so we're in the second round now. Second round's kicking off. We got what uh Spurs, Timbers, Timberwolves tonight. Uh we got uh Sixers and um Knicks right now. Sixers, Knicks. So uh give me your picks. Obviously, Spurs and Thunder.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Just make sure I have this in front of me. I'm gonna pull this up.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Okay. I know you're gonna pick the Spurs and the Thunder. Obviously. I mean, well No reason not to. Okay, I guess I was gonna say, tell me a reason to bar the thing. Barring anything catastrophic.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Right?

SPEAKER_02 27:23

What what I want here's my here's a question that I have for you just because for those conspiracy theorists out there, and I'm gonna I'm gonna stoke a flame here. For the conspiracy theorists out there, I will placate you and I will say the NBA has a vested interest in making sure OKC does not sweep their series.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

I think the league has, and if I have any sort of conspiracy theories around the league, this is part of it. The league doesn't want sweeps, period.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

No, but I could see Scott Foster specials delivered by people other than Scott Foster in the OKC LA series. Only because I think OKC in a in one or two games throughout the series will be on the receiving end of a whistle that they haven't really received all season. Because of who they're playing.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Because of the, yeah, yeah. I think it's um so I am gonna float that out. There'll be some lobbying. I mean, there there'll be a there'll be a LeBron bias to an extent, I think, for the it's you know, if if you were to go again more as uh tinfoil on the head kind of thing, um they want LeBron to go as far as they can. It's a better story. Yep. Um that's what I'm saying. There are some storylines now. The league nor anybody would ever admit to anything that is short of just the way it is, but there are certain referees that just don't like certain players. There are certain ways you know the I'll never like I guess I've seen uh I've been firsthand um with watching players manipulate things in calls going away that we we used to um so the way it works is if you feel like you were wronged in some way with a call or whatever, you can submit film. Yeah, like you just send like hey, this play, we want to dispute or contest this.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Well, and there's always the two-minute report now that comes out where like well this is after the fact.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Like we this I remember we were playing, it was a Lakers thing, and we we thought there was a Dwight Howard bias at one point. This was 2013, and so we put film together playing against the Lakers where we showed just the egregious missed no call or call, um, just the wrong call. Again, it's not there's no good call in basketball. It's either this is right or wrong. It's either right, yes, or it's you know, or it's bad. Yeah, right. It's it's right or bad, no, no good call. And so we we submit, and the league has to take a look at that. So I guarantee you the league gets all kinds of film all the time of like, hey, this guy is fouling our player, like that that right there, that push, we're watching the game. Yeah, that push by Andre Drummond on Kat was that's a foul. Like that's that's literally a foul. He's literally pushing him. So you could, you know, does a referee look at it or not? I don't know, but I the conspiracy theory says maybe they try to extend the series as long as they can. I know that the league probably doesn't want to sweep. That is a reasonable thing to say. Like, we want good competitive basketball. I guarantee guarantee the league's gonna stand on we want the games to be competitive, we want them to be called the you know, correctly. Correctly. Um, we want, you know, parody, we want, you know, our stars to play well, we want our teams to play well, we want good storylines for sure, but we just want the right things to happen, and that's probably what the company line will be. And whether or not that happens, you know, again, this is where initially when I was getting ready to start today, I was like, fan is short for fanatic. I've said that before. And when you talk to fans of teams, they're never gonna be reasonable because there's a bias inherent, right? And so my my hope is that a fan will look at it from a non-fanatical lens and just say, I know your team lost. I'm sorry. Yeah, totally, but you got beat, right? Like you could point to, well, Jalen Brown says that you know, Embiid flopped and he's ruining the game. Well, you could lost. You could point to, you know, open missed threes or missed assignments, or like which would you rather point to? And it's in it's so such a uh a um a weak lift to say, yep, Jalen Brown's right. Yoke or uh Embiid is the one that flopped and cost us this game. No, no, watch the film. I guarantee you there's some plays where you could have made that were totally different. So um all right, so so all right, sorry, picks. Okay. Yeah, so it's another thing. And there's only one reason why I'm not picking San Antonio over Oakland City. Okay, and it's because it's their first time there. And I know that doesn't mean shit.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

Yeah, you've talked about this. You rarely ever go from terrible to great.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

I think there's a team that showed up day one and made the and won the championship.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

But wouldn't it just be totally Wemby style to be great, to be the the the alien that does it?

SPEAKER_00 32:30

There's no reason why they shouldn't, other than like basketball gods. And here's my you know, spiritual side of basketball like the basketball gods just don't allow that shit. Like I every team that's been really good has had a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

But what if they just flat out said it's okay, this this guy.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

We like him enough. Sure, sure, sure. You know, I I'm up there and Zeus is like pointing down, saying, they're they're good, we'll let him. I think I think the um I'm picking Oklahoma City, but it's like 55-45.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

So way closer than way closer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I still think it's a safe bet to pick Oklahoma City to win the West, but and to probably repeat. And to probably repeat, but it's not if it I'll say this now publicly, if it does, if it happens and and San Antonio wins, yes, reasonable. Not not crazy. Like it's not like holy shit, it was an upset. Not that big of an upset.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

Well, and and you know, you you do get to sit there and say if San Antonio does pull it off against OKC. You know they're not afraid of OKC. Haven't been all season. Have belt to ass big brother, little brothers on OKC all year.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Yep, not scared of you. And and I think again, that's where when I look at teams that I like watching play, and I I can I'd like to see guys that you just know are just like, you really care about this. Yeah, you know, I I said this before on one of the other episodes. When Banyamo just finishes a regular season game, and I forget what it was, and they won. And I don't even remember the game, I truly don't. But he's crying. Oh yeah, he's crying in the post-game interview.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

People were giving him shit. I thought they were so late.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

And the guy was like, You're emotional. Tell me what's going on. He's just like, This is just, you know, I we we went through a lot right now. We just we went through a big portion of our season, and I'm like, that guy gives a shit. Yeah, and that's that's what I like watching is a team that really gives a shit. Um all right, so we got San Antonio, OKC, and then you but oh so real quick, uh, I think OKC in LA is is six.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

You think six?

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah, okay. I think um I think San Antonio, uh, Minnesota is also gonna be neither one of number five.

SPEAKER_02 34:52

I have San Antonio, Minnesota in five. Neither one of number five. Um uh you say you say both six or more. Uh-huh. I say San Antonio and Minnesota in five. Okay. And I think OKC LA in seven.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Seven for OKC LA. I think seven for OKC. So if OKC goes seven with with um LA, because I think uh Luca has a chance to come back. If that goes seven, it's not 55-45 anymore. It's more it's 5248. Really? Because it's Oklahoma City might be tired. Okay, okay. So in the East, I think the Knicks win this. I think the Knicks beat Philly. Beat Philly, yeah. I think Philly again is a bit over their skis. They were a play-in team for a reason. Now I know Embiid is playing at a high level right now and making jump shots.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yeah, but Brunson, OG, and Batman. I'm not not a fan of it.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I just don't like I don't like how New York does things. But um, Tyrese Maxie, again, I was blanking on his name earlier. Tyrese Maxie. Sorry, Tyrese. Um, so I do think again, Chalk New York wins that. Okay. I do think Cavaliers upset Detroit.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Yeah, I could see that. Detour just got pushed a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

I'm gonna I'm gonna pick, I'm gonna pick Cleveland in seven. Cleveland in seven, New York in I think, I just think now I love Tobias Harris, I love how he finished that series. I do love Cade Cunningham, I love Dur uh Durant Duran. Um, but Cleveland is just there's there's they underachieved last year losing early, and I think they're ready to go with adding Harden and you have um Mobley and you have um I forget blank on the centers. I'm having trouble with names tonight. The center for uh Cleveland. Um yeah, but anyway.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Okay, so you got Cleveland seven, how many games for Knicks sixers? Uh I think this is six, I think New York gets him in six. Okay, and then who comes out of the East? New York. New York. So as of right now, OKC New York.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

I do believe that's how that shakes out. You're gonna have so many fans calling it the foul baiting finals. I'm coining that right now. I'm sure and and people are gonna be so upset that it's Jalen Brunson and Shay.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

And Brunson is that guy that seeks contact just as much as Shay does. And it's you know, I I don't think there's anybody on New York that like flails or or um, you know, flops other than maybe Kat. But I do think I think it's a fun matchup.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

I think Kat's a zesty guy. I like a great word. Zesty is a really good word.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Um, God bless him. Um, yeah, I don't know. Uh you know, Philly has this, and we're we're watching as we're doing this, but they just have this this youth about them. Edgecombe is great. Um they just have good, I don't know. I'm I I like how Philly plays. Um yeah. I don't know. This will be yes, so I guess back to the original point. New York, OKC, and Oklahoma City wins that in five. In five? Yeah. I think once they get to the finals, that that shit's over.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

I'm gonna wrap us up on uh I was in my group chat talking to my buddies who are all Nuggets fans. And you know, it is uh they're they're friends of the pod, they listen very often. Nick, Chris, Steve, hi, uh, Tanner, you as well. You got almost left out because you were taking family photos when we all had a group outing to a game. Um so you know, a little bit little bit of everyone, you know, in our field is taught, you know, they're they're my buddies. I'm yeah, you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm with them on this.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

It's a lively banter, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah, and so I you know, I'm I've I feel for them, you know. I enjoy watching Denver when they're good. Uh they infuriate me when they're bad. Uh I'm on record in the screen chat being furious at Jamal because I'm just like, what are you doing, dude? Like almost all the time. Um fair. So, you know, lately there's been a lot of conversation about how who do you move, who do you trade? And it's funny that how we started this episode, I'm gonna end it because randomly Nick sends this screenshot from whatever hypothetical trade website he went to and you know creates a trade of Jamal and Zeke for Jalen Brown. Does Boston do it? Do they entertain it?

SPEAKER_00 39:40

No.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

And I I agree, no, they don't. And I also just don't think it fixes many things for Denver either.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

I I like Jalen Brown better because he's a better defender, but um the thing I think about is value. Like how valuable, who's most valuable on the team to trade? And it is Jamal. Yeah, Gordon is so I was having this discussion.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

So someone's the wrong side of 30.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Yeah, no, no question. I was having this discussion with a friend of mine this morning about health. Yeah, you cannot consider health when evaluating a team unless they're already injured. Yeah, right. So you you could say uh, you know, last summer, for example, all the trades at Denver did, and they had this, you know, they won the offseason. They arguably were everyone said top to bottom, those that that watch it and pay attention, they won the offseason on paper. There's no way to know that Gordon misses games, Brown misses games, um, Jokic misses games. There's no way to know any of that. And if you sit there and say, well, I want to trade for this guy, but I'm worried about his health. Every player in the NBA is one ankle away from health, right? From career being good. Is Minnesota like, gosh, we should have traded. We saw this coming with DiVincenzo. We should have bullshit. No, or we saw this with you cannot consider health when evaluating a player, unless, unless they're like, you know, Sam Bowie, who has a broken foot or some stupid shit, right? So with Gordon, that's a good point. You can't which is why I think Gordon is less valuable. You can consider it now because Gordon is currently injured.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Two seasons in a row. Two in a row.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

So would a team would a team take Jim. So Jamal played 72 games. Yeah. And then the playoffs. Yep. He's healthy and he's productive. He's the most valuable piece. 100%. Gordon is I think Gordon is best to stay because if hypothetically not hypothetically, when he gets healthy, he's really good. And he's and he's a better defender.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

So I think you your defense stays arguably their best defender.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

And he's your only rim protector. Yeah. Um, I do think a I think it's it's Jamal that has the most value. Peyton Watson also has the most value.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

You know, I don't know the status of well, he's only getting moved in a sign and trade.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Right. I think it's only Peyton, you know, can just either get re-signed, which puts him over the second April or whatever. I think there's gonna be a lot of money. So I don't know if they get anything for Peyton. I think he may go, but um Yeah, unless it's via sign and trade, then yeah. Yeah, I don't know the whole details of the of the cap and all that, but the most valuable piece is Jamal. And so whatever happens, if they want to trade big and go, you know, try to make a home run, kind of trade something major, it's Jamal, in my opinion. Not Gordon, not Brown, not you know, anybody else. Yep. Now, um, I'll say this because again, Coach Carl got destroyed for this, but he is 100% right. Everyone is tradable. I agree. Everyone. I agree. Ask Kareem Abdul Jabbar, ask Wilt Chamberlain, ask Kobe. So Kobe was traded. Yes, he was traded. LeBron was traded, everyone is tradable.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

If you Michael wasn't, no, he was never tradable. Um, we're not even trying to hide our bias there anymore. If you are Denver, yeah, hypothetical, yeah, and Chicago with their new GM in place comes to you looking to make a splash in the Serbian community in Chicago and says, you can have Modus, Zach, you can have some firsts.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

I think you're you're loading up for uh for uh dark time in Denver.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

I are you temporarily are you not already there now though? Because one could argue that window that everyone is. No, I I don't disagree. But what I did Did the window close in two in twenty twenty three? That's the question not his window. No, no, no. To Denver's window as it's currently constructed.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

So and and the window, I windows are fun to do. The one thing I'll push back on, and this is to your to your text group, is I understand he's a he's an all-time player. He's you know gonna be a Hall of Famer. He's arguably an MVP most years, except for this one, because he didn't play defense at all this year, even though his offensive stats were remarkable. Um I think as long as Jokic is around, you have a chance to win a lot of games. Yeah, G Mikel. You can win a lot of games just by keeping him. So I don't think a Jokic move happens. I don't think Josh Kronke is willing to trade Jokic. I really don't. Even though there would be some big like who would you go? I mean, I know that you, you know, the the Chicago fans or you know, get modest or whomever and pick pick anybody, but you have to go get an absolute young banger for Jokic. You have to get it, it's has to go to a team that's ready to win, that you add Jokic to another, there can't lose kind of a thing, right? Like, yeah, I don't know who that would be, but it wouldn't be anybody in the West. But no, I I as much as I would say anybody's tradable, Jokic is probably the least tradable person, even though he has the most value. Yep, but he's still just he's relatively young and he doesn't have you know, his injuries have been minimal. He is highly productive, he's still averaging a triple double. He is the most value, he would be the one of the biggest trades in the last few years in the entire NBA for sure. Um be one of the maybe one of the biggest trades in history. Yeah, I think if you worst case, like you go get Giannis for Murray, and like you then now you have these two like but again that you gotta keep in mind that pick and roll would be insane. But the thing I think, yeah, it no, no question, you got two seven footers running pick and roll. Um, but the thing I think about is is you know, we talk about players getting added all the time, but in in my experience, the group matters, yeah. Like Oklahoma City has some really good players, and San Antonio has really good players, they're a championship team. Oklahoma City is.

SPEAKER_02 46:08

They all like each other, they love each other, and the group fucking matters. I feel like the fizzle with the nuggets, like the can it's sometimes things run its course.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

I don't know if the chemistry, yeah, and I think they like each other probably, but are they they're here's the the the double-edged sword of an older team, right? They're they're not hanging out, no, they're going home, they have kids, they have families, they're adults. Oklahoma City is, you know, and I know Shay has a kid and all that, but they all still hang together.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Anthony Edwards has tons.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Oh jeez.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Yes, well played, fella.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Here comes here comes the uh the uh um the Timberwolves contingent. Yeah um well look, I mean I I think at the at the end of the day, no, the improv here comes the improv uh improv skill on the phone.

SPEAKER_02 47:01

What we what we saw in the Minnesota series, injuries or not, with Denver, is that the two-man game got exposed quite a bit.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Well, and so I would say even I'd go further just in watching it from an offensive basketball standpoint, like an NBA offense. The the two best teams, they are who they are, and they play in flow. And flow is uh spacing based and quick decision based. And when the ball moves on this side, there's movement on the other side. Yeah, right. So that's the easiest way to explain it. So not that they're all you know connected and all five guys are no, stop. But what they do is they space the floor and they teach it every day that they do this. So yeah, as the ball does one thing, the weak side guys will also move as well. Denver is heavy, three-side or two-side. Now, meaning it's Jokic in the in this pinch post area, the elbow, and the two guys play off Jokic all the time. So it's like a handoff, handoff, and then Jokic catches it and they do something. So, but what happens on the weak side? The other two guys, they don't move. And now that's that's intentional because once this three-man thing or this two-man game is done, then they move it on the other side. They never have flow. They never have a um this I don't want to get in the weeds, but a paint touch, a paint penetration. So Minnesota did this to Denver at the end.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Killed them.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

They got to the paint, yep, and once they get to the paint, they make a decision. Yep. That's flow.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

That's kind of the it's a it's a kill them. Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

And so Jaden got to the paint whatever he wanted to, and all these, and and all these players would just at the end of the clock, they're like, fuck it, we're gonna go one more time. Yeah, we're gonna drive it one more time. And Denver just doesn't play in flow enough, in my opinion. Yep. You watch tonight when San Antonio is playing Minnesota, and San Antonio will run whatever they whatever play, they will run in the beginning of the clock. But once half of the clock is done, um, they will get into flow and they will have one more pass, one more pass, one more pass, open three.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

And they're both gonna try to do it to each other, too. I mean, it's back tonight.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Minnesota's better at it. They're not the best at it, but you will see again the two best teams in the league play in flow more than the others, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Period. And New York up by 23 before the half, even though.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Yeah. Well, Philly, good run.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

It was fun. Thanks for tuning in. This episode is brought to you by Field Day Sporting Cup. Have a field day.