Ding Dong the Witch is Dead (Spurs and Knicks Advance)

In the penultimate episode of the season Coach Nygren and Ian discuss the Knicks and Spurs advancing. Is SGA actually foul baiting? Does the NBA have a ref problem? Who wins the NBA finals? 

Transcript

0:03

Okay. Well, first off, uh, this is the penultimate episode of the season. And we talked to me about that. Well, thank you to anybody who's listened to this little passion project of ours. It's been a ton of fun. Um who would have thought that a super nerdy pop culture musician and a basketball guy and uh and an MBA credential, the basketball coach and analyst and scout, and uh you know, just a basketball genius would make a podcast that uh would be downloaded in the short time we've been doing this over five thousand times. Five thousand times. That's pretty fucking cool. That's pretty cool. I mean, yeah. Sorry, I cuss a lot, but no, it's it's I think that's I changed the rating. It's an explicit rating on our podcast now. From the beginning of doing this, just like as to your encouragement of me, right? Of all the other stuff I do, I didn't think we'd get 5,000 people to listen to our yeah, you know, and and we've tripped through locations and audio and all kinds of different things and settled into I think it's cool because not you know, I've said this to you before when we've gone when you know, when we've had some banter, and and because because I like pop culture a lot, I kind of have my finger on the pulse of some different things that I can kind of tee up for you and be like, look, like I don't firmly believe everything I send you in a text. It's just but it's just the this the pot stirring, even like during the game, but it preps you a little bit because this is what people are seeing and this is what people think. And so not everybody has access to someone like you in their phone to be able to discuss a basketball game. So the fact that this dynamic has led to 5,000 plus downloads is cool as hell. It's awesome. So good work. Thank you to anyone who's listened. Um, thank you. I hope you've had a ton of fun listening to Coach talk ball. Um, and you know, thanks to the guests that we've had uh on our first season of doing this. That's pretty cool. That's awesome. Um but we're gonna get into it. Our NBA finals matchup is set up. Yes. All right, we got Spurs Knicks rematch of the 99 finals, which was which is pretty cool. Uh side note, personal note. My last year in Minnesota, we were eliminated by the 99 Spurs. Very cool. In the first round. Or not cool, but yeah. And that you know, a little bit of my last my last uh my last moments there, but we uh we got clipped by the Spurs. That was my last playoff series before um the nugget stint. But yeah. Wow. That was the Tony Park, that was their uh I think they won in 96. It was Timmy's first year, wasn't it? Timmy's well, it wasn't his first, it was close to his first year. He got drafted in 97, I believe. Okay, okay. Um, because that was one of my first drafts I was part of, but I think that was their first championship of their like every other year winning it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it was like 99 and then 03, 05, 07, they went off for a while. I don't I think those don't don't quote me on those dates, but I know they won like every other year for a yeah, it was wild. It was pretty wild. Um the Lakers were in there too. It's funny. My my buddy Mike came over and met our new dog this morning. Um and we were talking about uh the Admiral and how I mean dude was built like a Greek god. It's just insane. It was one of his last years, too, I think was 99. Yeah, yeah. Torch passing year for those. Really loved watching David when when he was playing, and and uh I do remember always thinking that when I was a kid, I was like, this guy's jacked. Um just yeah, but chiseled. So our our matchup is set. Nick Spurs. Um very emotionally charged seven-game series between the Thunder and the Spurs. So you are one of a few people in existence that is you're not we've discussed this, you're not a fan of any team. Nope. You like players, you like good ball, you like yeah, um competitive games, but you're one of a few people that I know and that I hear and that I listen to, and that obviously many people hear and listen to that are supportive of what the Thunder do. Yeah, no, and in so many words. So I you know, there was I think you mentioned about I didn't pick I didn't pick anybody. I didn't think sort of well, no, I so my my my main thought, like even last night I've had friends calling me, like, who should we? This is the betting friends of mine. They're like, Who should I bet on? That's real great. And I was like, what's the spread? It's gotta be two or three points, and it was three and a half. Yeah, and I there was no reason that San Antonio couldn't, and I said this on a previous episode. You did say this, yes. There's no reason they can't. The only thing that I think about is the way that you know normally the the maturation process of a team happens. Yes, and usually it's like you know, you point to any dynasty-ish type of championship, they go to the first round and you know the Bulls get beat by the Celtics in 1986. Yeah, right. Yeah, the the Bulls continue to move on and get beat by Cleveland, and then they get beat by Detroit, yeah, and then they slay the dragon and they're off and running. Yeah, that was after years and years of doing it. Same thing. The Thunder have had to do that. Yeah, they did that a couple years ago. They got their hearts broken after the wall. I don't know this stat. I don't know if it's as a true uh this to be true supported by statistical, but I don't remember a team that was not in the playoffs a year ago and is in the goes to the NBA finals the following year. Right. I don't know that stat either. I don't know if that's ever happened before. Like a first time, you know, and I guess if if a team no, there's no way, like a team that didn't make the playoffs and then made it the following year and went to the finals. I would put any money I've got on that's never happened before. So my point during this whole thing was I think it's it was a pick'em series. I said that from the beginning. And the only reason I thought that that the Spurs may not be able to do it is because they've never been here before, and that's okay. But the one thing I also mentioned is there's a guy over there that has something that no one's ever seen before, does things that no one's ever done before. So all the flowers to the Spurs, they played so well. And Oklahoma City was short on their roster, missing two starters. Um, not there's no excuse, but that's just the way it goes. Like, that's do they there's no hypothetical where if Jalen Williams plays or if um AJ Mitchell plays, are they they're better, they are deeper, better, and and Shea doesn't have to handle the ball as much. Right. I guess where I come back to that is you know, like people yes, they're missing missing Mitchell, missing Williams, but they're either the deepest and best team in the league or they're not. This year they're so right, because you're missing two. If arguably, so it's like I'll go back to like all the Denver people are like this year's Denver team. They they had 10 to start the season, they played it, they started the playoffs with six. That's a thing. So that uh Oklahoma City was one of the deepest teams until they lost two of their players. And and there's no and the the reason there's a reason that you know Wiggins doesn't play very much, and then the other um I'm blanking on the kid's name. He played last night a little bit, who came off the bench uh and and kind of played. Jerry McCain? No, not McCain. McCain was McCain was in the rotation. Um, I'm blanking on the kid's name. Um he has kind of a tricked out haircut, is like a it's almost like a mullet, but it's not a mullet. Anyway, um but he obviously made a tremendous impact. Yeah, and he but he started, he was in the rotation two years ago, I think. Yeah. Anyway, so the point being is that they were not who they who they were, and then they also faced the second best team in the league. Yeah. Who's had their number? Right. They they I I posted a long time ago, big brother, little brother kind of thing, and you know, the Spurs at that time were little brother beating up Big Brother, because that's how it goes. The little brother eventually wins. And I think that's where they got to the point where San Antonio is just riding this, you know, all these efforts of all these guys in these first ever's. And and maybe the good news is they don't know enough to be, you know, scared of the moment. Or and and again, you've got the best player right now, the future MVP for a lot of years on the other side who who didn't really carry them, but I think like the spirit that he brought to the sidelines to they cut the cutaways during the runs that they were making in game six and in game seven, where he's on the on the sideline and he's got fists clenched, and he's like, Yeah, he is celebrating his teammates' success far more than his own. 100% loves what he does, and that's what what I enjoy watching is that so even last night I was like, uh, this is they it's a pick'em. I love the tears uh that Victor had after the game. It it I like players that give a shit. Yeah, I I like players that care about what it is they do and that and that really care. Um that's why I like Tokulum City because they that whole press conference at the at Center Court with the whole team, yeah. That's that's a good thing. People were given that shit in the beginning of how corny it was or whatever. I'm like, no. No, as a as a member of a team, as a coach of a team, if they do that, like if if the teams I coach, they bring it on them, take it on themselves to do everything together, especially in that type of like celebrating each other at half court after a win. There's there's not a single thing that isn't like extremely positive about that. Anyone that pokes a hole in that is just looking for something to to kind of come after, hence why I said what I said and have said how I said about Shay and the fouls. Yeah, and we'll we'll get into that a little bit later. Topic. Um we've we've talked about this and I've kind of alluded to it both to you and to people that you know I'm I'm in group chats with a lot of fans of different teams, you know, I've some really close friends that are diehard fans of the Nuggets, and so one of the things that I have always thought about when it comes to this Thunder team, and that is evidenced by this Spurs team is to the point of because the narrative is so strong around the whistle and the foul baiting, other teams let it get to them. And the Spurs have seemed like the only team that has been like, screw it, we're not gonna get the whistle, we don't care. We're just gonna continue to play the game that we play. Yeah. And you know, as we we went back and forth on this a little bit because I was scrolling Reddit and I was like, uh, people people aren't happy with this crew, so I'm gonna see, I'm gonna test the water and and see. To to that point, so many teams and so many benches would have cleared after that because of the narrative and the whistle for a weaker-minded team. However, well, Dylan Harper held him back, yeah. And was like, uh-uh, and we're not doing this. And I do, I don't think, you know, to your point last night when you messaged me, uh there's no player on either side that's trying to harm anybody. I don't think and and somebody's gonna say, well, what about Lou Dort? Lou Dort is just a physical, whether he is aware of his physical uh you know impact or not, he's not trying to eliminate anybody from the game. And and I there's some gray area where he operates that is Draymond Greenish. Yeah, and there's intent there for sure. It's sort of like um Carter Bryant. Carter Bryant intentionally went after Shay twice and one of them got called, I think the other one did not. There's a lot of this, like it's a really physical thing. It is a mental game too, though. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, like I think I think Carter Bryant going at Shay a couple times was like, Look, you want to do this? It it certainly affects, I think, when you get hit, I'm sure it affects their like next play. Like, I'm now I'm pissed. Like now I'm coming out. Sure. Same thing with Castle. Like that foul, the Caruso foul, he had, you have to make sure that he doesn't get the shot off. And and it's a wrap-up, and he had the other hand around his waist, I think. But there wasn't like a I don't think there was ever a time where Castle was in danger. Like he didn't, he didn't clothesline him, he didn't, you know, um Kurt Rambus, Kevin McHale kind of vibe where he, you know, came clean after him, or even the the Grayson Allen foul on Caruso where he you know, you know, those are plays where there's probably some intent there. That wasn't at all. I think Castle was just was vulnerable and felt like that was an excessive foul. I don't think that was excessive at all. I need to bring you to the gym and and drop you. You wouldn't you wouldn't survive it. Well, and but that's it it's one because you're old now, but no, no, it hurts, it hurts to get hugged sometimes. Um you need to know what it's like to fall a little bit. Yeah, but and and I, you know, being a smaller player, uh there's you it's just you you'll know when somebody is actually trying to hit you because you it's different. Sure. This was an arm grab, and that's a foul, and that's a you know, that's a taut thing. Like don't let him get it off. You cannot let him shoot the basketball. So um I think people just had maybe a little bit of issue. And look, there was a tug. And it's but he tugs it. And it's not, it's a guy that's not Caruso's not a guy that does that all the time. If that's another player, like a if it was Grayson Allen, if it was Grayson Allen or Draymond Green or or somebody that's known as a physical, like kind of cheap shot, yeah. Like, then you would be like, all right, he was probably trying to not hurt, but send a uh definitely send a message. I don't think he was trying to hurt anybody, but this is again the the one thing that's bothersome, and one of the reasons I said what I said about the fouls and all that is I hear all the time of well, in the if the hypothetical just absolute bullshit, if this were this decade or that decade or that player, or it doesn't matter, we're not even making that time anymore. No, and it's just such a redactive, reductive I don't know the word, reductive, just a bullshit like stance to say, well, if Shea played when Jordan played, he wouldn't like but he doesn't, so it doesn't matter. It can't even say it, you can't even talk about it. Like, and and so they the the calls have always been for I can't believe how there's no um there's no more physicality anymore in the NBA. Well, the rules were changed by the players' association and the league. The players association agree to the rule changes, so the players want more uh want freedom of movement, they want additional things in place so you can drive without being mauled. You can, you know, even defensively, they want freedom. They want to be able to jump straight up. Correct. But the the thing that I think people forget about is, and this is what happens on jump shots a lot, the reason why a back to the basket play, well, I talked about this maybe before, is one of the reasons why it's less effective, is because you're allowed to touch a player with their back to the basket when they score. You're allowed to touch a player anytime for the most part in your own verticality. But if you go vertical and to contest a shot and you touch, you literally just tap an elbow, that's a foul. Yeah. Like Jordan, for example, would these turnaround jump shots, and and a guy would go to contest, and his his fingertips would just barely touch the forearm. Foul. Yeah. Right. And so the fact that people are crying whatever they're crying about, yeah, Shay falls down. I don't know why he falls down. I'll I'll give you fall down, I don't care. I understand why. I have some numbers on this. Well, I understand why he might fall down at times, and it's something I'm I'm kind of made up, but I think it's a thing. There is when, especially a jump shooter, Steph does it all the time. Yeah, uh, guys that shoot the basketball from the perimeter under duress a lot do this often. They will, it's not like you can just go up on balance, land on two feet, and just move on with the play. If there's somebody in your space, there's gonna be a reaction. Yeah. And you you go and you do any shooting drills with any player development person or any kind of team setting with basketball, when you contest a shot, and even if it's late, even if you're just they're in your vision, it affects how you respond as a shooter. Now, I think when Shea pulls up at these elbows, he's always guarded. I think one of the things he does is he feels the presence of the defender, and I think he reacts. And his reaction is to fall. I don't know if he's trying to lessen the like not step on somebody's ankle. That's a thing. And somebody's gonna call bullshit on that. But I do think that is a thing where I jump and I feel you next to me, I'm wondering while I'm coming down, going, Am I gonna step on your foot? And am I gonna roll my ankle cohileending? Yeah. And I think that's part of it. Now, the other part of it, when he's off balance and he lands and he just he he does land off balance. I don't think it's a fall off balance, but for some reason he just falls. I don't care. Like if you're San Antonio or any other team, like keep falling. Sure. Please keep falling because now we have numbers. If we get a rebound, we're going the other way. So like for the for the the you know Yeah, Rachel Nichols brought that up on in a clip that I just run. It should be an advantage. Yeah, run. There's and yes, to your point, yeah, he he falls a lot. Sure. You know, 17% of the time, I think it was. Uh yeah. I 17% of his shots he falls. Now and what's interesting though, okay, is on that of that 17%, okay, there's a 50-50 chance within that 17%. Those are the odds on his calls. Sure. Next, next highest is James Harden at 40.6. Is it a foul though? That's the question. Okay. So this is why this is why I think people hate this so much. One there was a very clear example last night where he fell, Castle just went straight arms up. There was no reason to fall. No reason. Was he close to him? I don't know. Barely. Like barely. Then in the third quarter, when it started to feel like the game was really getting out of hand, Pump Fake, the cell fell for it. Three. And went to the the three. Yeah. And instead, Shay dove away from the basket towards the baseline into the cell. Yeah, that's a smart play. It is a smart play under the rules. If you jump so that's if you so I'll that's what people hate. I was coming after so Matt was here last night, former guest on the pod, Matt Bolden. We were talking about that exact play, and he kept telling me how it's an unnatural shot. I would ask anybody in the basketball sphere what's natural. And you're gonna go, well, I know it when I see it, or it's straight up and down, or bullshit. There are always times on the basketball court where you get off balance to try to get a shot off. Always, and usually it's closer to the basket. I'll give you that. Sure. But if I'm if I'm anybody on a on the perimeter and I I pump fake a three and you are vulnerable and flying at me, not straight up in the air. So if that was a straight up verticality thing and Shay jumps into him, that's not a foul. But if you're vulnerable, Shay gets that called 50% of the time. Everybody should. Everybody, it if if you go straight up and down and I jump into your space to shoot the basketball, that's an offensive foul, and that they changed that rule. They made they made that a point of emphasis. There's what there's two points of emphasis, or not one other point of emphasis I'm gonna make after this real quick one. That exact play where he pump faked, as soon as the defender leaves their feet in a going forward motion, they're no longer um legal. Sure. They're no longer in a legal guarding position. Yeah, legal would be straight up. Yep. Right? Once they've once they get in the air and they're coming at the shooter, they're now vulnerable. And if you don't change your feet and shoot it, you miss an opportunity to get a foul. Right. I would teach that shit, and I will teach that shit. Of course, because that's that's how it works. And that's how basketball is played. I'm gonna rewind to something you said. Everybody should get that call. And they and most do. I think most I would do they? Yeah, for sure. The next closest, the next closest person is James Harden, who includes He's really good at drawing about complained about for years. So here's here's the complaint, right? He's he's not even close by 10%. I'll I'll use this example and I forget the rule that was used by the Patriots. There was some rule in football that they used to their advantage. And I don't I don't remember what it was, but I was like, the I'll I'll use the gather, right? So like James Harden used the rules of basketball to his advantage. Sure. Just like we see now with there's this movement basketball that's taken over basketball where you can lift up your pivot foot. Yeah. So the rule says, and this is high school rule. The NBA is a little different. The rule says you can pick up your pivot foot, but you must pass or shoot before it comes down. It doesn't say anything else. It doesn't say, you know, uh when you make it look weird and step through, that's maybe it's a travel. No, it says you can lift your pivot foot and you have to shoot or pass the basketball before putting it back down. Yep. That's all it says. I can go on my other, my free foot all I want. So they've taken the rule that's been given them, and I'll use the gather again. They had to come up with a point of emphasis a couple years ago is when is the basketball controlled? And when James Harden used to do this, still does, and these does the step back and the ball sort of floats between his hands, and he takes a step or two to get some space. Luka Doncic is really good at this, and you're like, wait a minute. That's a that's a you know, pivot two more steps, travel. Donovan Mitchell's good at it, Jalen Brunson. They're all really good at it because they whatever the refs Steve has the ball being controlled is when the the the first step and the second step begin. The first step is your pivot foot, second step is your free foot. And so they have uh because they're the best in the world to do it. Shea is one of the best in the world. So let's make that very clear. A two-time MVP, a champion, one of the best players in the league, an all-NBA player, he has elevated his skill to learn how to manipulate or to not manipulate. I want to no, not manipulate. I scratch that. To learn how to take the best advantage of the rule. I would argue if you're not doing it, you have work to do. Correct. Get your ass in the gym and figure out how to do it. And as Steve Kerr said earlier this season, he's got no problem with Shay. None. He's got a problem with the rules. The rules. And the rules are, by all account, terribly written. There's a lot of space for interpretation, which is bad. Which is why you have people with players that are creative interpreting it. And then right. And then you have referees that cannot consistently enforce it. And I'd I that's where, and I've said this publicly on our pod and on TikTok and all the things. Go to the referees, make happen in in insist on change from how that's officiated. I I agree with that. There's the there's an interesting thing because the NBA just released their tanking remediation. And I what I find 3-2-1. Yeah, what I find to be it's it's masquerading as a tough uh deterrent to tanking. Yeah, I don't think it's an extreme. It's it's an attempt. You're right. It's a some teams just suck. Yeah. Well, and and the the good thing the the best part about it is you can't get the first the top five pick three times in a row. Right. That I love. Like, move on. You gotta get it. I like that too. Yeah. What what I find interesting is you know, there's always that last two-minute report that refs, you know, that always comes out. I think a way to get refs on the same page for enforcing rules or learning the rules a little bit better or interpreting them a little bit better on a consistent basis, player to player, would be if you butcher a call within that two-minute thing, you as a ref are fined. Yeah, I that they'll never do it, but I I think the the consequences for officials isn't is minimal. They're zero. Well, and I wouldn't say it's zero because they get they get rated just like they get reviewed just like any other job. They have to submit film. The referees have to they the the NDA, the league watches film. That's why some officials get elevated into the finals and some don't. It's just like anything else, it's merit-based. And I don't know if they take here's the thing they're essentially the police, right? Yep, and there's not a very good rel never, there would never be a a strong relationship between coaches, officials, players, etc. Because they are in the seemingly or or metaphorically in your way. Yeah, and when they're good, you don't hear about them, but when they're atrocious, just like we talked about. It's why everybody knows Tony Brothers and Scott Foster's name. There's no such thing as a good call. No, it's either bad or wrong. It's or bad or right. Or bad or right. It's either bad or right. So and to your point, because I I I don't think I could sit here with a straight face and I there are times where SGA does embellish some things 100%. But with what I'm about to read off, you're 100% right. If you're not doing this now until someone figures out how to get this out of the game, as the fans want. And I know fan is short for fanatic in your mind. Yeah. Oh no, that's the definition. I know. I know. Not in my mind. But it's it's very feral for you. You you have it as a very feral thing. This is the you know, the Webster. Fan is fan is short for fanatic, yes. But it's it's it's feral in your mind. Every every fan is feral. I think it's a negative. But there is there is no league without I shouldn't say it's not a negative, it is biased. Yes, but there is no league without these people that spend their hard-earned money. Okay, totally fair. So and TV and all the things. And and fans hate this, they absolutely hate it. Yep. So if you're a player though, uh, as of May 26th, um, I want to give, I want to give credit. This was from Yahoo Sports. Um, and the author of this is Tom Haberstrow. Um, he he did the math. So of the 17.4% of jumpers Shea falls on, 50, it's a 50-50 shot, he gets a it's like 51.4, he gets a foul. Okay. Next up is Harden at 41 at 40.6, Donovan Mitchell at 21.2, Jalen Brunson at 20.8. Those are your top four. These are the falls. Yes. Okay. Or these are the percentage of falls that get a foul call between these players. As of May 26, when Shea falls on a two-point shot, it's worth an expected additional 0.9 points. Okay. On a three-point shot, it's worth an expected additional 1.35 points. Why would he not fall? Right. So, so and and I I think I think the point, no, I I agree. The the um I would ensure that what happens is a foul. Like if, okay, so let's it's hypothetical for a second. Sure. If he falls and there's a 50-50 chance to your data that says he gets a call on a two and a three, and he fall on the fall, was there a foul? If he's falling, or if he's anybody, if anybody embellishes in any way, fall, arms up, head back, name it, if there's any embellishment in any way, was there actually a foul? And if there was actually a foul, that is the right call. 100%. If there was not contact and there was a call, then bad call. Yeah right? The one that they show that I that was referenced in slow motion and all over this is where it got me all fired up. The national media and two people specifically, uh, and I'll I'll call it out, Nick Wright and Max Kellerman, were talking about the air de Aaron Fox, no touch of Shay when he was in the air on a two-pointer and he fell. Fine. They missed it. Yeah, but he didn't touch him. Yeah. Now, Shay, the the Fox was in his space. Now, here's the one the one rule that I will mention on this that was changed when Kawhi Leonard got eliminated from the playoffs because he landed on Zazapatulia's foot. Yes. You don't have to make contact for there to be a foul on a jump shooter. Right. All you have to be is in their space. Yeah. You could be under their feet and they miss you. Yep. Right? And that's a foul. Yeah. So it's not a con it's a non-contact, illegal play. That's where I'd say, all right, 50-50, let's look at those calls. Exactly. So that's why I'd say what I said, I said what I said, that it's a it's nonsense that he's ruining the game because you take the isolated confirmation bias, slow motion, uh video evidence, if you want to call it that, and you go, see, he's ruining it. Yeah. I would point to the rules of protecting offense, yeah. Right. And protecting the shooter from injury. Yep. Go again, go back to I think it was Toronto when Kawhi was in Toronto. Was that or was it? I don't know. It doesn't matter. Yeah, Toronto. When he got when he landed on the foot and he was out. Yep. They're best player out because Zaja got under his feet and they changed the rule. I am all for that. And so I'm I'm great with the stat. Like that, what to me that would be like, all right, show me the video now. Yeah. Show me the ones, and I'll we'll go through each one. How many are under his feet? Right. And how many, and and how many is that is the explanation. What if that veers towards, you know, what if that ends up veering towards like 80% nobody's under his feet? Okay. And they're just blowing calls because then that's an officiating problem. Because he's dropping like Woody and Toy Story whenever Dandy Enders. And so it's yeah. No, but and so again, it's what it looks like sometimes. The officiating that has to be officials are human. Yeah. Right. So we we don't have the ability to have a an objective call. And there's no call that's objective. Not one. Yeah. Not any foul is objective. Like any Caruso's foul is not objective. It's subjective to whether or not I saw it, call it whatever. There's been many, many of a foul that have not been called because of subjectivity. Yeah. Right? There's no objective call. Not one. Yeah. Traveling. It's objective. Or sorry, it's subjective. All of these calls are subjective. Nothing is object. Only the only, not even out of bounds. I didn't see the foot out of bounds. I didn't see it. Three seconds. I didn't see it. Yeah. Right. That is subjective to your um taking notice of it. That's how baseball is heading towards RoboRaps. Right. And they're option enough. That's why they have. And I think in strike calls, I don't want a floating strike cell, right? There should be there shouldn't be. Right. So we have the little thing that says, oh, strike. Just like Wimbledon. Out. Yeah. In. Like, yeah, okay, cool. But are we not at a point now where are we not out at a point where you can legislate some of this? Like a game earlier in the series. I think Chet was or Caruso was very much at it, like foot on foot out of bounds. Hand on the ball. You should be able to review it all. Absolutely. I think the review process has gotten a lot better. They make it quicker. I I think the way it is now, you can only review so many plays, and I don't want them all reviewed either. No, I don't want to stop this play all the time. But the bowling alley can tell me when I step over the line. Why can't we have that technology on an NBA floor? You should. Yes, absolutely should. I don't know why that's it. Out of balance is not an issue. That's why what I love about replay is in the last two minutes of every game, they will review every call. Right. Like get it right. I agree with that. I want the call to get right. I mean, there's a sensor in a football now that tells you if you got a first down, you should be able to like, when was this last touch? Did the ball time stamp it? Yeah. Yeah. And so I I do think, again, I think the problem is the officiating. And I'm not saying they're bad or at it. I know it's a hard job, but the reason I got all fired up again is because this redactive take one confirmation biased video and say, I cannot believe this. I'm appalled at how this is going. I'm appalled at how he gets his fouls. At how like they're literally just, I think, I think that people are making, they're not making it up. I think they're making far more of that than anybody even says. And to that point, Steve Kerr doesn't care. Draymond Green doesn't care. Richard Jefferson doesn't care. Even um Gilbert Arenas was like, no, look, do it. And I was like, hell yeah, thank you. I don't, I don't like Draymond Green necessarily as a as a player. I don't like how he's he has been too physical and been uh harmful at times. I mean he kicked Steven Adams in the dick, man. Intentionally. Yeah. Kicked him intentionally and then lies about it or whatever. He's he's a menace at times, but even him, he's like, good on him. They're coming after greatness. And I'm like, you're right, they are. They're gonna pick on there's no one that didn't come after every single star we've ever had. They've not one of them has been anointed until after the fact. I think I think where you're heading now, because to me, you know, and this kind of brings me into a huge point I wanted to make. I think the Spurs winning was the better outcome for the whole of the NBA. And the only reason I'm I'm gonna say this is because the I I have an analogy for this. When I was in when I was younger, uh it was right at the peak of the fray breaking through. As in the fray. The fray, the band, the Colorado band, the fray. Yes, the fray. I love this. Um bringing in the I love this. This is this is a this is an analogy that I feel really, really strongly about. Okay. And bear with me because this is this is very it's abstract, but it it's relevant. Okay. So when the fray first broke out, every radio station on the planet was shoving how to save a life down everybody's throat. You want this song, you want this band, you love this band, you do. How to save a life is the Oklahoma City Thunder. It's it's fine. It's a fine song. It it's got some good parts. The general population doesn't really want it. There's better options, it's fine. It's fine. There are better songs and there are catchier songs, there are less overplayed songs. Sure. Now, right before we started filming, you talked about how people are gonna eventually turn on Wemby a little bit once they start winning everybody. And when they start winning shit for the next 10 years, fans are gonna turn on them. Right. So, but to that point, fans pay money. True. It it's none of this happens without Right. So and and uh two things, so um maybe more than two. Wemby's the new hit single. Fine. You know who doesn't care? The Frey. The Frey and Oklahoma City. The Frey might care. Metaphorically, they're no longer together as a band, really. Take my song and go. Right. Pay me. But they had better songs, sure. But they they launched into the you know, whatever popular. Yeah, they were on Grey's Anatomy and everything. They were on everything. ER, Gray's Anatomy. That song was everywhere. And I Oklahoma, I don't know why people hate Oklahoma City so much. Well, unless it's because they think they don't like the way they s the style of play. But for two years or they're not a very likable team. I don't, but why? I from what standpoint everyone on that team has the most punchable face. From but from what stand? Like I like you know, I'm I don't, you know, it's like I I enjoy the way they play. They get they lead the league in assists, they they're high in scoring, they are near the last in free throws, which is for the record. Um, in the playoffs, there are 14 of 16 teams in the playoffs of free throws attempted. So the the data doesn't show that there's a foul discrepancy, right? They get less fouls than the other teams, shooting fouls. Sure. And I don't know what's not to like about this team that they just for the most part, offensively and defensively, they they play the right way. They take it. What's more likable, Wemby or Shay? Probably Wemby for me because I like his his passion about it. But I don't like him anyway. I don't like him any less and say, Well, I don't like Oklahoma City because I you know it's like uh there's but I think there's there's an air with Oklahoma City where they walk around as if they're the most arrogant thing to grace the planet Earth. And and that, you know, this is this is like a general feel. You could watch them all the way down. Mark Daniel, arrogant as all hell. I don't see that at all for Mark Dagnall. I think he's I think he's pretty blue Dort, who has no reason to be as arrogant as he is. I've I've heard Mac heard Dagnalt talk about you know the way he coaches and the things he does in practice, and I love what he does. Like I I I He's a great coach. From that standpoint, I I I have no I don't see arrogance in him at all. He doesn't make it about him ever. He doesn't, I don't think the the one thing that I think bothers people, and I don't know why this is so bothersome for people, is Oklahoma City brings a shit. They were the first team in a long time to bring joy to what they're doing. Hence the the press conference at half court. Hence like sure, you know, um adding Jared McCain, who's the most joyful dude in the league. And I love Jared McCain. I love how he plays. I love that the the like I love his smile. Dylan Harper is better. Right. Well, but it's Dylan Harper's. Dylan Harper's a menace right now. Right. Dylan Harper, they're all really good, but they, you know, I I think I like watching Oklahoma City because they just they play with joy and energy. Like even Caruso, I like Caruso. I like, I don't dislike the teams. If there's any teams that I dislike, it's because there's selfishness on the team, there's bad teammates, there's like like I watched, for example, like Carl Anthony Towns. I don't like his body language. I feel like he's always a victim when he plays. You don't like the zestiness? Yeah, I think he's so zesty. He is zesty, and that's and that's not even the part that I dislike. It's like his style of play is very much like I'm being wronged all the he's a victim mentality when he plays. Zesty. And and you know, like again, I'll point to assists and defense all the time. Assists mean I'm sharing the basketball. Yeah, Oklahoma City takes open shots until they this series, but they're really good at getting more open shots than you, hence that's why they're really good. They'll always make the right play offensively and they they defend in a certain way. So the likability, I love it. I I love these two teams. I I love watching, I liked watching Cleveland. Yeah, I feel like they played hard. Donovan Mitchell plays hard. You know, I enjoy watching hard in that next series. I think I feel like they mailed it in a little bit at the end. They did not play well in that series. But prior to that, like I enjoyed watching the Charlotte Hornets. Yeah, they were a joy to watch. They're very fun. Anyway, so that's my take. I'm just pointing it out like when something is forced upon the people who are sure, but but supposed to consume it. How is it forced though? I guess would be my question. Well, it's just it's it's the narrative. Like people force a narrative. Whose narrative? Well, it's the NBA is saying there's nothing wrong with this. Fans hate watching it. I would say that it's a it's a a fan response to somebody in national media saying something that people run with. Some influential, influential big followers, or then the league needs to get out of bed with these entities as well. And they probably I I think you know, if I don't think the league is tied into you know Fox Sports with Nick Wright or Colin Cowherd show. There, there's no league, you know. Uh I get probably Adam Silver's on those, like, but none of these the league does not have a is not in bed with any national media other than their broadcast partners. Right. So NBC and TNT and all whatever. Yep. And I'm I I'm I'm a fan if like every broadcast partner at least has two former players on it. Yeah, I I dig that. I don't know. It's it's better quality to talk about the game. Yeah. There's more it's more credible. Yeah, I think. Even last night, like during the broadcast, like there was a lot of commentary. Like there were some some plays where these broad where the play by play and the color commentators were saying we're calling Shay out a little bit. Like not a foul, Shay. And they have no idea why you're falling. And they were all they were doing the other as well. We're like, yep, that's a foul. Like, and the thing that I would point to from a viewer standpoint, like you asked me one time, like, how does the casual fan get like how do they how do they kind of tap into what maybe what what I see or not necessarily what I see because I don't no casual fan's gonna ever see what you see. But but I what I would ask every one of them to do is to stop watching the basketball. Don't watch the ball. Yeah. For a little while. Yeah. Because you're not gonna be able to do it a lot because you'd be like, wait a minute, what am I doing? Just watch what happens away from the basketball. Yeah. The and it's not just Shay, but every if there's a so the every play call this time of year is known. There's no new shit. Like they both teams are scouted, they know every single thing about every team and what they're trying to accomplish. So when the play call comes up, and let's say it's just a screen for Shay to come to the basketball from the other side of the court, immediately when the call is made, the defender will put two hands on Shay. And that's a foul. Yep. Could call it. Could Shay then has to they do it to Steph Curry all the time. Watch Steph Curry off the basketball. Yep. They uh maul him, but they can't call it all. And so what I would argue is for the for maybe some of just another level of understanding. A level of empathy to understand what these guys go through, and every player does. Jokic gets fouled at every play, Wemby fouled every play. Every player gets fouled on nearly every play in some way, shape, or form. I would just urge the if a you know, if you're a common fan or if you're just a casual fan and you're like, wait a minute, I don't, I don't see this or I don't get it. All I know is what I heard on national news, national broadcast, or whatever sports shows. Watch what happens off the ball. Yeah. And you'll be stunned at the way they screen, the way they hold, the way they they hand-to-hand combat when they're ball handling. That's not that's legal. You can do that as an offensive player. I can swipe your hand away, but I can't swipe and hold. That happens all the time. Happens all the time. And that's where a ref goes, no, I'm gonna call that now. Jersey holding. Yeah. You'll watch a guy come off a screen and you're like, he's holding his jersey. All the time. All the time. And sometimes it gets called and sometimes it doesn't. So I would go to that person who's doesn't like my take on it's not just Shay, it's everybody. And I think Shay is unfairly targeted in this whole narrative. Watch the rest of it. And and don't just watch the highlight to where you go, because the highlights are even that I'll call out ESPN for just showing something that pushes the narrative, right? And my whole point of what I said, what I said was watch it all and just come with come with better receipts and come with proof, like the 17 faults. I I like the 17% falls. I'm like, that sounds like a lot. And the 50-50 on the falls, fine, but are those fouls? Gotta find that out. You can't. I don't think you can just go, see, look what happened. Yeah. And I think you have to come with, okay, yes, I understand why he fell there or why. And you have to take each one for what it is. You can't say blanket, Shay gets all the calls. No, he doesn't. He gets two more fouls than Jokic. Two, just two. I think, you know, and to to wrap up the foul discussion. Last night I watched in the game, I think two of the most egregious situations of the game weren't called. Yeah. One was Cornet kind of got a lot of Hartenstein. Oh, yeah. On the block. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of. Got a lot on. Like he got a lot of ball, but he got a lot of hands. And in full well, and in full speed, there's there's part of the rule where they say your hand, if if I have two hands on the ball and I'm shooting it or going to dunk the basketball, and you hit my hand only, but it's on the ball, that's not a foul. Right. But anything else, if there's a contact, now they allow contact at the rim more than anything else. That's why it's the hardest thing to officiate. Hardest thing to officiate. You have to look down low. Are there is their contact low? Is there like am I hitting you high? Is the defensive player going straight up? Is the offensive player going relatively straight up? Or are they, you know, are they making a play toward the basket and they're impeded and they're all that stuff. So the officials have a really hard job and they're really good at it. Yep. Even though they get it wrong a lot. But they it's so difficult to do to call the foul unless it's you know blatant at the rim. And then everybody watching the broadcast, they replay it in slow motion and go, foul. Yeah. Or no, it was a clean block. And you're like, well, sure, slow motion. Yeah. It's really easy to see. And then so I'm defending all. When they were when the Spurs were up six, time time was ticking, Casey Wallace and Caruso are doing everything short of punching Stefan Castle in the face. Sure. I'm like, well, there's like nine fouls right there. Like literally hitting him. And so here's what's going to happen at the end of the day. Could have called, not called. This is why as a coach, when I'm at the end of the game and it's close, the first thing I want is a paint touch. I want to get to the, I want to, I want to play through the rim. Yeah. I don't need to get a layup necessarily, but I'm trying to go to the rim first and to force some sort of so go get a call. Go get a foul. Now, knowing that though, I the referees are going to swallow a whistle late because they don't want it to be decided on their thing. Yeah. They want the players to decide it. So this was off the inbound pass, like right next to like and they'll hold. They're just like mall and I'm like, I mean and and they they're gonna, they're not that's just the the nature of basketball. In theory, it was to the detriment of the thunder, though, to not call that foul. Right. And and sometimes they they want like, you know, they're they're trying to foul intentionally or whatever, but that's also they change that rule. So again, I just think that there's a there's a sliding scale of contact that's allowed. And the part of the nuance of basketball is when and where can I do it? Yep. First quarter, you can do anything you want. Yep. Fourth quarter, you not you can't really do anything you want. So all right. Spurs Niggs, who you got? I have a hard time, especially with Mitchell Robinson being questionable if he's broken his finger or not. That I don't I just don't they're loaded. San Antonio's loaded. They just beat the best team in the league. I know depleted, but they just they ran through the best team in the league in a good yeah, great series, seven games, and the Knicks didn't really have Knicks were third in the East for a reason. Jalen's elite, he's an MVP candidate. I think you know Annanobi is really good. Robinson, really good, Kat, really good, yeah, but not at the level they're not as good as San Antonio. San Antonio has dudes at every position, they have um size advantages at every position. Jalen's small. Yep. Sorry, but he's little. And sounds like Becky Hammond right now. Yeah, he is Castle is CSU and San Antonio are great, Becky Hammond. Yeah, there you go. Um if your best player's small, you ain't winning. You're not. It's gonna be hard. Yeah. Uh, because it just size is matters now in the NBA, especially with with San Antonio. But um Castle's 6'6, um, Vassell, 6'5, you know, Champney is the smallest guy they have, and he's 6'3, 6'4, maybe. I don't know. They're they're giant. Crusoe's not Crusoe. Um, who else am I thinking of? Oh, um, um, Harper, 6'7. Um, uh, Carter Bryant, 6'7. Like these dudes are big, and I think the way they play is more free. There's a lot more freedom. I do think Wembanyama's is gonna get hit even more. I think if any of 100%, I think there's the more the physicality is only gonna increase a little bit more, and you're gonna see how the calls go. And does Wembanyama get the benefit of the superstar whistle? And that is a thing. I'll admit to that. 100% there is a superstar whistle, but I'll talk about conspiracy theories real quick. It's not evenly applied. Probably not, but the the one thing I hear a lot of is like there's a conspiracy theory that they want Oklahoma City to win. There's a conspiracy theory that the league wants XYZ, pick pick at a conspiracy. No, if there was that conspiracy theory of any team, like we need we want this team to win, it would be New York and LA. It'd be Boston and LA. You want the two biggest, you want the biggest markets, you want the two biggest markets to play in the money generated, you want Celtics Lakers in 1983. Yep, right? You want that's what you want. And you don't want if you're a business that's that if you claim that the business is flawed and there's some sort of conspiracy theory, you don't want Oklahoma City, Indiana. You don't want you want New York. Absolutely. You're like, this is great. You don't even want Denver and Miami. No, you don't. Miami maybe. Depends on the stars. But Wemby's the biggest star in the league right now, close to it, one of. He's the biggest story in the league. So maybe they do want I don't there's no way Adam Silver would ever sit back and go, gosh, I really want. Hey, referees, make sure the San Antonio Spurs win this. Yeah. No fucking way. None of that happens. I think it's good. You know, this goes back to it being good for the league. Um, and to falling a little bit. People are gonna learn really quick that yes, Shay is not the only person who does it. Jalen Bronson does it a lot. Yep. And so nobody wants the life alert finals. My no shit. My and my wants to see people on the ground. My only ask of those, and I called out trolls in national media. My only ask of those people that have taken this narrative and ran it like it's you know, they're they're flying their flag, when it happens with somebody else, do the same thing. Be just as appalled for the same thing. Yeah, and and again, they'll go back to the reason why the fan matters is because if you if you can be a fan, I love fans, right? Fans are great for the game, they they they move the needle, they pay their money, but start with I'm a fan of the San Antonio Spurs and Ergo, I have a bias. Yeah, you you if you just mention that up front and go, listen, I'm a fan of the Spurs, so grain of salt, then then we're good. But if you go, this is bullshit, I hate the Oklahoma City Thunder. Why? You can't what for? Well, I'm a nugget fan. Oh, but okay. Well, that's why that's why that is why you hate them. So your you have your lens is has nuggets in it, right? If your lens is dirty, yeah. I'm a I'm a bulls fan, I don't like the thunder. Admit your lens is dirty. There's no reason. And that that that would be far more respectable to say, listen, I'm a Knicks fan, and I don't like the calls that Wemby gets. Okay, cool. You're a Knicks fan, so yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah, uh-oh. It hurts. But if you started it with, hey, I'm a fan of this team and I want my team to win, so I'm gonna look at this from you know, I'll even go to like um, you know, Tom Brady. I'm I'm a Tom Brady guy, so anybody that plays against Tom Brady, I'm gonna be a little bit like any comparisons made to that, even though he's the best ever. Any comparisons are like, wait a minute, I'm a Tom Brady person, or I'm a Jordan guy, so uh any comparisons made, I'm like, I'm just not gonna listen to you. Yeah, give me receipts, bring me, watch the film, watch the video, and say I had to come with numbers for you. Come with numbers, and that's fine. 17% seems like a lot. And I will flat out be like, You're yes, like I don't give a fuck who wins. I th I would I would love for Wemby to start his championship journey. Dude, they have nuns on their side right now. That'd be great. They got people praying for him. I have friends in San Antonio that I was talking to last night. Wyatt shout out, uh, he called me last night like late, like 11 o'clock, I think. And we just had this great conversation about how exciting and how how a buzz the city is. Love that for that. Well, that in New York too. In New York too. Yeah, you've got friends in New York. Yeah, I got friends, I got family in New York, my sister, you know. And good for them. My friend Sarah and Travis, they live in New York. My my baby brother Ziam, he he goes to school out there. Uh, you know, it's like yeah, like it's cool to see the these cities a lot. Spike is gonna be insufferable. They're all Timothy Chalamet is gonna be insufferable. But if the Knicks somehow can miraculously do this, I'll be really excited for Adam Sandler, Tina Faye and Billy Crystal. It'll be entertaining if they beat San Antonio, it'll be the most entertaining series we've seen in decades. How many games? I hate to do picks, but I just don't see New York. I don't see New York getting more than two games out of this, winning two games. So six. So because you don't like to do picks, and last night uh you called it a pick'em. I'm gonna tell you why I would not have picked said it was a pickup. This is the most random stat, and this is how we're gonna end the episode. Let's do it. Yesterday was Harrison Barnes' birthday. Harrison Barnes is now two and oh on game seven's played on his birthday, and NBA players as a whole are now eight and oh when they play a game seven on their birthday. That was not a pick'em. Listen, that is those nuns creating magic game witchcraft. Vegas did not have that stat. Nope. Because they had OKC by three. This episode is brought to you by Field Day Sporting Co. Have a Field Day.