What Teenagers Are Really Desperate For w/ Youth Pastor Jacob Hall | EP.14

In this episode of Carry The Fire, Jesse Allen sits down with Jacob Hall for a deep conversation about the battle for the human heart, the next generation, and the transforming love of God.

They unpack:
• Why the enemy wars against the heart
• The difference between religion and relationship
• How God speaks through the heart, not just the mind
• Why teenagers are starving to be seen, heard, and valued
• The power of presence in discipleship
• Conviction vs condemnation
• Why love is the antidote to fear
• How to disciple the next generation with humility, truth, and grace

This conversation is for parents, youth pastors, leaders, mentors, and anyone who wants to see a consecrated generation raised up in the presence of God.

“Religion says: You’re bad, be better.
The Kingdom says: You’re loved, come closer.”

#CarryTheFire #NextGeneration #Discipleship #KingdomOfGod #youthministry 

Song: The Preparation
Composer: BatchBug
Website: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO3-2ZprtSNtQe1MxzlRepA
License: Creative Commons (BY 3.0) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Music powered by BreakingCopyright: https://breakingcopyright.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome to Carry the Fire. I'm here with my good buddy Jacob Hall, and we're super excited to jump in today. Thanks, Jacob, for joining. Thank you for having me. I'm really stoked to be here. It's gonna be fun. And so we're gonna have a conversation around the kingdom of God and specifically how it relates to like the next generation. And I wanted to start with saying just a little bit of it seems like the war of the enemy is always on the heart of humanity. And so, like where we're gonna start today is we're gonna really start at the place of the heart. Yeah. And that God, throughout all of Scripture, has had this deep desire to make his home inside of the human heart. And so I was thinking, just as you as I were processing a little bit beforehand, like this Ezekiel 36 passage, and God said, I'm gonna put my spirit within you. And he said, I'm gonna remove from you your heart of stone and I'm gonna give you a heart of flesh. And it's gonna be in that place that I'm gonna come and I'm gonna meet with you. And it seems like this war that even happened when Jesus came on the scene was this war between putting our hope in the law and then actually believing that God was pursuing our heart. And Jesus came with a message of the heart. Yeah. The Pharisees were trumpeting a message of the law. Yeah. And so often what ends up happening when you pursue Jesus is maybe unintentionally you get deceived into hearing the message of the law in religion without recognizing that God is a relational God who's pursuing your heart. And so I just love to hear a little bit of your heart for this next generation and specifically how you see God pursuing this generation's heart.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Yeah. Well, in short, I wasn't trying to be a youth pastor. I really bel we had this amazing encounter with God. Both my wife and I simultaneously, in a moment of worship, God, put me anywhere, just put your glory in me. I'll serve anywhere. Just let me see your beauty. And in that moment, he spoke to my heart and said, Jacob, I've called you to reliance to be a youth pastor. And we go to dinner after that worship session, and I've not gotten to talk with Jordan about it yet. But she grabs me in the lobby and she says, Babe, you know when we're singing that song, put me anywhere, I'll serve anywhere, just let me see your beauty. She told me, the Lord spoke to my heart and told me that we're supposed to be youth pastors at Reliance, which was just like this crazy goosebumps, like we haven't even talked about this. Um, but a very supernatural, you but unifying start. And I'm telling you that story because my heart was not initially trying to minister to teenagers to the capacity in which we are now operating in. I had a different plan for my life. And thank God, you know, Jesus has actually been writing our story and he's shown himself trustworthy and better than anything we could have written on our own. Um so that was like eight, nine years ago, almost somewhere around then. And the Lord has changed our hearts drastically in the ways that we think about teenagers. I've gone from this place of thinking about teenagers as as buttheads, as on I don't know if I could say that on the podcast, but um just as honri, arrogant, stubborn. Why would I spend my time here?

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Right. Non-interested, hard-end.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

Yeah, to this place of he's given me more of his heart and like a fathering, seeing them through those things of like the arrogance, the honriness. Um I'm often reminded so many times when I'm in that place of frustration and annoyance with a teenager, the Holy Spirit very kindly is like, Jacob, do you remember what you were like at 17 years old and 16 years old? Yeah. And uh it's always been such a loving callback. Um I will say when I was a teenager, I really began to fall in love with Jesus. Um, and so there's a lot there that we get to relay out of personal experience and just memories with the Lord as we're pastoring teenagers and inviting them into um there's more than you think there is in in God and with Jesus and and reading his word and knowing him. Um and I'm really grateful for the leaders that had been so influential in my life. Like my youth pastor, Matt Lowry, was incredible. He really took me under his wing, and he would have conversations with me about Jesus and really challenged me in ways that were frankly often uncomfortable, but also exciting. And he helped in so many ways me recognize the work of the Holy Spirit that was happening in my heart as I began to know God more and more and read the scripture and gain an understanding of what his heart is actually like and the way he cares for us as people. It's it's so much more than good information that he's offering us. It really is his heart of I love you, I care about you, um, the plans I have for you are good, I'm trustworthy. Um, and I've I've got more in store for you than you could ever ask or imagine.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah, for sure. Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

Um and so Matt was just incredibly influential in that. And we have, it's not always been easy, you know, to be on the other side of that, being the the youth pastor, the person who is reaching out and wanting to disciple. Um, but man, also then getting to experience some of the burden of God's fathering heart of like, I if you only knew how much I love you. If you if we my prayer for the students is if you only knew how much God loves you, if you only believed me when I tell you you're not worthless. Um and so all that to say is Matt's influence, his team's influence was incredibly impactful on helping me come alive in my heart with God. And that's one of the things I want to talk with you today is diagnosing the matters of the heart.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

And uh, we can just go ahead and jump right into it with my notes here.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Well, and real quick before you jump into that, there's a couple things that you said that I think are so powerful is that our life is in our own. And I mean in regards to we're a byproduct of other people's formation in our life. And so whether it's positive or it's negative, we're being formed by something. Yeah. And so so much of who you are today is a byproduct of men. You said Matt multiple times sharing his life with you. And so it seems like it's an amazing investment that we can make in the next generation. Yeah. It's not always easy, sometimes it's hard. It's not the most glamorous of assignments at times. It seems like I could do other things that would have quicker results.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Yeah, and it's good to be reminded of those things. And I'm still needing often reminded of the value of what he's called us to do and seeing it through the what sometimes feels like it's just monotony or or wasting our time here. Um, but it really does have eternal significance. It does. Getting to relate God's heart to a kid. I mean, Jesus died for all, and not all will choose to surrender their lives to him, but he still died for them. And that is the way of love. And we're invited to participate with him in that. And as much as a burden it is, it's also this very compelling thing to just do what he's done. Like to per per I said participate with him. Know that he's in that, that's where I would want to be.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yeah, for sure. So the investment in the next generation is worth it. It's worth it. Yeah, it is. For sure, it's worth it. And then, you know, the other thing that you said, now jumping into diagnostics of the heart, is you said you that God spoke to your heart. Yeah. And then you said that Jordan said that God spoke to her heart. Yeah. And so so often, and I'm not minimizing the power of the mind, we could do a whole podcast on the mind. Yeah. But so often we hear God in the mind, and we try to figure out him and understand him in the mind. And I just love that you said he spoke to you in the heart. Yeah. Like there's a place within us that God wants to speak that's so intimate. Yeah. And again, where I started, that now I want to bring us to because of the diagnostic of the heart, yeah, is that there really is a war on the heart. Yeah. And there is a unique war in this generation that is different than other generations. It may not be greater than other generations, it's always existed. Yeah. But there is a unique war in this generation in regards to the heart. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

Yeah. And I think things of the heart, like when I sit down with a kid and it's like, where are you at? Just air out your heart. It can feel like, what are you talking about? You know, because this isn't kind of, it's not really regular culturally, I think, where we're sitting down. Um, it could be more regular because there is, there's so much, I don't even know how to recognize what's going on in my heart that's worth regurgitating, that's worth acting on, that's worth um inviting somebody else into because it is such a deep and vulnerable and intimate thing. And so it can be hard to figure out what's going on, or even relay where you're at. And when I sit with a kid, they just it's it's not for lack of I'm uncomfortable, I don't want to tell you that I'm not okay. I think that part is pretty apparent. Um, it's more of like, I don't even know where to begin in telling you how I'm not okay, or I don't even know where to begin in telling you what is making my heart come alive right now, just because we're so out of practice. There's not been a nurturing culture around the the practice of recognizing the invisible things. Like it's a it's an invisible struggle, it's an invisible excitement that manifests into physical things in the lifestyle that you live and the work that you do. But it can just be hard to recognize when there's not enough practice around it. And so that's just so value. I'm learning as a youth pastor the value of giving them a space like Matt would give to me of a safe place where you can just do do just that air out your heart. Let your guard down and air your heart out. There's a song in preparing for this, that it's not a worship song, but it's uh the guy says that. Yeah, let your guard down and air your heart out. And it is such a simple invitation, but part of me is like, if only it were that simple. Yeah. Um and so, you know what I'm learning in this is when I think back to my experience and when I get to do this in prayer with the Father, um, he's just so gracious to just invite me to begin. Whether it's something from that day currently, prior in the week, something maybe that's been going on internally within me for years and years, that's kind of bubbled back to the surface, he's just shown me that there is so much grace to just pick a spot and begin to relinquish that to him, surrender it, air it out, process it, um, to do that with him primarily, but then showing me people in my life that it's safe to do that alongside too. Like, so when I was a teenager, it was Matt, my youth pastor, it was my best buds, you know, who were going out to the Lord with me. It was my parents, my mom and dad have always been so solid and patient with me. Uh and I think that's also part of the understanding of like somebody who's willing to sit patiently enough, like the patience of Jesus, yeah, to hear somebody as they try to air out what's going on is a healing work in of itself and a valuable thing. It's easy to want to interject and to chime in, especially when you're like, oh my gosh. I read, you know, here's the answers right here.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

Um the value of just patiently listening to someone trying to air out their heart. It's incredible, it's immense. And so I was thinking of a couple things, a couple questions with this. Who is trustworthy to do this with? Who's trustworthy to air out with? Uh-huh. And I think it's an important question that we should ask ourselves when we're aware of like, I need to get some things off my chest. Can I process something with you?

SPEAKER_00 12:27

So you're saying when you're experiencing tension in your heart, yeah. That one of the primary ways to be able to process the tension and even experience God's comfort in the midst of the tension is to bring that into the light with somebody that's trusted in your life.

SPEAKER_04 12:42

Yeah, but also not just tension, even the celebratory things, the exciting things. So, for just a personal example, I'm wanting to write this album and share it with the world. Right. And it excites me to think about it in that excitement, there's some intimidation as far as the process of building it all and how it will all be received in the end. But it's been so valuable to me to have dear friends that I can process lyrics with, can process musical ideas with that have spurred me on in the endeavor. Yeah, for sure. Um, and so that's kind of where I'm going with it all. Just like there's something in my heart that it's like being, I want to bring it forth. Yeah. Whether it's good, whether it's bad, who is the right person to bring that to? Always Jesus. Yeah, obviously, but he's also put incredible people in our lives. Yeah, for sure. To kind of help mine that gold with us in the process. So yeah, who is trustworthy to do this with? But then also the question I ask myself and my teammates that serve in the ministry with me, like, are they seeing, is the is this current teen generation seeing this thing I'm talking about being modeled in regular happenstance? You know? And it's just something that I've been thinking about. Like, how often if someone were to look at our life, obviously this is a podcast that came looking for for this kind of conversation about Jesus? Um do they do they see us, do they see godly men interact in this kind of way? Do they see godly couples interact in this kind of way? Godly friendships have these type of interactions.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

It seems so simple. So my question would be then what keeps like even our generation or older generations that a younger generation is intentionally around or intentionally watching from doing what you're talking about? Like what keeps us from doing that?

SPEAKER_04 14:37

It's a vulnerable thing because it's a matter of your heart. Yeah. It can sometimes feel like a silly thing. Uh-huh. Like I shouldn't be wrestling with this. I know this is like, man, I feel like I'm just I should be past this. That's been my experience in some of these matters of my heart. That how have I not gotten over this yet? How am I how I am I dealing with this again? Or if it's like the exciting things, it's like, I'm really excited, but would somebody else be as excited with me?

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

And so it's it can be a scary thing or an intimidating thing because of the vulnerability of the practice for sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Sure. I think of two things. Number one, the world will tell us to despise weakness. And it's pretty amazing that the God of the Bible delights in it, that he actually takes pleasure in us coming to him when we're weak and us being able to delight in and see the wisdom of embracing weakness with each other. Yeah. And then the other thing is it's really fearful to dream.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

You know, because I'm going to share my dream and I'm super excited.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

And at best, sometimes what I get is a non-response. Yeah. And at worst, what I get is a criticism that brings me back down to earth. Yeah. And so I think that like being able to learn how do we respond when people are being weak in our presence? And then how do we also respond when people are sharing the deep dreams of their heart with us in our presence? Yeah. You know, how do we fan into flame? And then how do we sit and not talk?

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

And um simply embrace with love people who are in a moment of weakness and mourning. And we don't do well at this, actually, you know, and so we don't know how to do this in response to people who are being weak or excited with dreams. And so as a result, I think what gets told to our heart is it's not actually safe to be real. Yeah. And so this is a really big thing to fight for for all people. Yeah. Is cultivating spaces where it's safe to be real.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

Yeah. And for me personally, this has been so impactful on the way I know the Father and the way I recognize the ministry of Jesus and how He He does this perfectly and learning from His example, um, His patient and gracious and true example. Because like you just said, it's really not done well as a whole. We are learning how to do this, but I thank God there is someone who has modeled it perfectly, who is always accessible by His Spirit. Yeah. And uh Yeah, it's just really been so for formational in the way I even view God and how much He cares to listen and how good His advice is, um the ways that He fans into flames. Yes, the gift of God that He's put in my heart. Um and so yeah, it's just something that's worth meditating, prayer, practicing. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

And it takes courage to practice this. Yeah. It takes faith, it has it takes the willingness to feel like I was rejected or I was disappointed, and so but it's worth the risk, I think.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I would rather live a life that in faith operates in courage, yeah. Rather than oh, I just never just never felt quite that safe to put myself out there, and so I just didn't. I just like that is so not what God has called us into. If we're more than conquerors through him who's loved us, then we can live courageously and why not, why not step out in faith and take a chance and obey?

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Yeah, it's so good. So some of the things in my heart when thinking about I have one more question around it. So like if somebody's listening to this, and maybe they have teenagers or maybe they're working with youth in ministry, or maybe they're a coach. Yeah. But what are some things that you have found helpful in regards to helping a young person diagnose their heart? Like what things are helpful and then what things maybe are harmful. Because I think even when we know what's harmful, we kind of know, okay, I should take captive the propensity I have to do this when I'm talking with a teenager about the matters of the heart. Yeah. So that I don't do that which will be harmful. Yeah. And I can lean into learning that which is helpful.

SPEAKER_04 18:46

You know, I don't know if I've figured this out perfectly well. However, I do kind of like what a go-to of mine has been like, I just want to listen to you. I have things that I could say and share, but honestly, I know if I start talking, I'll just keep talking. So before any of that happens, I just want you to give it a shot. Take a take a chance and begin somewhere. And I'll just sit here and listen.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Are there helpful questions? I mean, you shared a few, but is there helpful questions that like gets to a person going beyond the surface of the latest sports score game and the TV show and the video game they're playing? That's like, you know, maybe I just start with sharing the fun things that I'm doing in this life that gets into a little bit deeper place of their heart. Are there helpful questions that you found when walking with teenagers to kind of unlock that place and even begin the process of diagnosing matters of the heart?

SPEAKER_04 19:41

You know, that that stuff is so so effective when I think again back to my teenage years and the way that Matt loved us. I have more memories around Matt's table in his home than at Youth Group. That's just the way I remember it. That's the way I remember his influence and his love and leadership in my life. And he championed me in the things that I cared about, whether they be trivial, whether they be something about faith. He championed me. And so he just kind of day after day modeled this. I care about you. I'm with you. I want to see you do well. I want to see you go far with the things that you're dreaming about. Um, and so I don't know if it was like, I'm sure. Matt's a great asks great questions, but I think it was more just the perpetual his life lived before me, including me in it, allowed me to let the walls come down and and be honest and share struggles, share moments of excitement. Um that were really impactful. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

In that so championing young people and the things that they care about, yeah, is a form of deep love.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah, I mean like very powerful and transformative in a young person's life.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Yeah, my son's playing soccer right now and he's crazy about it. And it's I never saw that I would be a dad who's crazy about his kids in athletics, but he loves it, and just solely because he loves it, I'm like, I want to see you have the most fun in it that you can have.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

And I think that's God's heart. It is, and some of the things that we pick up or gravitate to in life. Obviously, if they're not harmful and anti-the kingdom of God, but Matt did that in my life. Yeah. And was able to, through his influence, show me how that can operate within the kingdom of God.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

And it was it was a lot more fun. Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Yeah. Yeah. Are there any other things that you found helpful, harmful in diagnosing the matters of the heart as you work with young people that would be good tips for those who are listening today to hear?

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Yeah, just thinking about words can be many, you know, where there's many words. I don't know how the saying goes, but it's one, it's hard to remember all people's. Words, but even just like the willingness to sit with somebody kind of in a quiet moment, as awkward as that can feel, um can also be really healing and just your perpetual presence of care and love. It doesn't even always have to come through words. I think we're always I often feel this pressure too. I need to say the right thing right now. And there's so many times when I pray and I don't feel like I actually hear back from God. But there is just this, I mean the truth it never changes. Do I believe he loves me? Do I believe he's for me? Do I believe he's with me? Okay. And something about that is settling in my spirit and in my heart. And I think if we can model that example in front of a teenager on a perpetual basis, that will minister more than our words can. For sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

I think Ecclesiastes 6.11, it says the more words, the less meaning, and how does that profit in the world? There it is.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

And John Maxwell, he has this awesome saying, and he says, no matter who you are on the earth, no matter how good you are at saying something, 90% of what you say people will always forget. So only 10% of what you say, whether it's Francis Chan, John Maxwell, or Jacob Hall, 90% of what you say, people will just forget. But he said 100% of how they feel when they're around you, they'll always remember. Yeah. And it's pointing to this truth that presence is more powerful than words. Yeah. And again, is words powerful? Of course, as the power of life and death. But there's one thing that's more powerful, and it's your presence. And so what I hear you saying is that what matters most is your presence in a young person's life. Yeah. And you don't need to have the words that are right or wrong, and honestly, so many of them are going in one ear and they're going out the other. But when there's a presence of love, a person who's championing you, it actually changes you, it transforms you, and it propels you to go after things that you otherwise just would not go after. Yeah. And I kind of wanted just to hit on one thing that keeps coming into my heart because I just kept hearing the phrase, the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth. Yeah. And so it seems like when you would work with teenagers, you would think, well, I'll lead you into all truth. And so it seems like the greatest discipleship that we can do is actually not lead them into the truth we think that they need to be led into, but we can lead them to the person that can lead them into the truth.

SPEAKER_04 24:13

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

And so that actually is uncomfortable because it's easier, especially I assume, if you're a parent working with teenagers, then I'll be the one that leads you into all truth. Yeah. And it becomes a vulnerable thing that I'm going to release you into the hands of the one that can lead you into all truth. And so my primary goal in discipleship and forming you especially in the diagnostic of the heart is that's the place where the Holy Spirit has made his residence. And so the best thing that I can do is get you connected relationally to Holy Spirit. And then I can trust that he's going to lead you into all truth, which means a lot of the truth that I'm going to tell you, maybe I should just keep silent and I should pray for you and encourage you.

SPEAKER_04 24:49

Yeah. I often am praying out of Philippians 1. It's that scripture that says, He who has begun the work in you is faithful. Let me see.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

To bring it into completion until the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

I always forget the order. Yeah. But like that's my prayer when I when a parent will come to me, like, you know, summer camp last year was such a profound experience for my son, and then the school year things fell apart. And it's really easy to get wigged out about those things. And it's like automatic pressure of like, what can we say? Uh-huh. What can we do to lead him in? It's like the Lord has begun to work in this kid's heart that he loves your son more than you do. He loves your son, believes in him more than I do. Um, that he cares enough to intervene and he will speak by his the spirit of truth will lead him to all truth.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Um and honestly, the Holy Spirit's the only one who can do the work that you want the most, anyways. That's right. Your son can't do it, your daughter can't do it, you can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

No matter how much you want to, yeah, the work of God can only be done by the Spirit of God. Yeah. It can't be done by the work of the flesh.

SPEAKER_04 26:00

Yeah. So just holding to the anchor of like, this hasn't changed. He it says he's faithful to complete the work that he started. I believe, God, that you love my son. I believe, God, that you love this kid and that you are revealing, doing all that you will to reveal that love to him, and he's in your hands. Help me to walk faithfully before him with your love. Um, give me the words to say when you, you know, there's words to say, but help me just to trust him in your hand, trust you that he's in your hands. That kind of deal has been, it's not easy, it's an operation of faith. It's an unseen work, it's a surrendering that God's actually got this. But the good news is he actually does have it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's how do you view God? Is he gonna leave something half done? No, he is gonna finish the work he's begun. And um, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

And it takes trust to believe that. Yeah. To actually be true. Yeah. Yeah, whether it's for me or whether it's for you. Yeah. But that which I love the most, it takes a lot of trust to actually believe he won't only just begin it, he'll bring it into completion perfectly. Yeah, and he'll sustain in it all throughout. For sure. That's so good, Jacob. Yeah. And so in God's love, talk a little bit just about the power and the purpose of conviction and the purpose of transforming us into you know, completing the work that he's doing inside of us, and even just how that works with young people, because I'm assuming that can be somewhat difficult, this message of conviction being received with joy and with repentance.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

Yeah, I think you know, when I have these moments of it it feels like being found out in all my wretchedness. It's like in that very same moment, God's grace meets me with his significance that he's placed on my life and the love that he has for me. And it's it's strange to say it that way, but like I think about the moment that I encountered his love and realized how guilty I was of my sin, of my um things that I had done intentionally to walk away from him, spit in his face, I know better, no thank you, for his reach to still come for me to grab me, reveal all that stuff, shake it off of me, and like clean me up. It's it's not his conviction has not been without also his comfort. And it breaks my heart when a student would come into our gathering, let's say a Wednesday night, and they're sitting in the teaching, they're sitting in the moment of worship and prayer, and all they feel is guilt and and and don't actually come to this place where it it's actually condemned, they feel more condemned, like they don't know that conviction is actually this thing that's him reaching for us to bring us back into his heart. Like I think about you know, when my I have little kids, and when they do something wrong, as a loving daddy, I'm not just gonna let them continue to live in the wrong things that they're doing, it needs to be addressed. But I also, as a father, as a good father, need to be quick in my affirming of who they actually are. Because you're my son, you don't talk this way. Because you're my son, you don't get to hit your sister when you um you don't steal because there's so much more value on your life than that. Um it would be it would not be my love to let you just live in harming yourself and harming others without ever actually stopping you from doing the thing and telling you what's better. So that's why I say like his conviction is not without his comfort. It can feel, I mean, you're being found out, but it's so that you can live found out. And when you don't have anything that you have to hide from God or from anybody because his conviction is doing its perfect work in you, um, that you are, he's your character is being refined, you are experiencing God's faithfulness, his love, his friendship. I mean, he's a holy God.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:25

And he's made us, he's called us to be holy, his special possession, you know. Um, and so grasping these realities, being reminded of these things, it's it's a moment of it comes from moments of confession. Um but it has impacted my view of him and that he's not just leaving me to do whatever I want to do, he's intervening in divine ways so just to tell me how much he loves me and what he has more in store for me.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

So when you see something's off and you confront, yeah, what kind of spirit is the most helpful to carry when you bring a confrontation with something that you see as detrimental to a person's life? And in particular, I just love again to lean into like the young people's lives. Yeah. Like what kind of spirit do you find is the most helpful in confronting people and bringing them into a space where they could be invited to hear the conviction of the spirit that leads to repentance.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

I'm thinking like Jesus' words, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of God. So that that recognition of how much I need him. But like I think when I go to have a conversation with a kid, it's I'm it's helpful when I'm rem reminded of how much I need Jesus to. Um it helps me operate in a little bit more patience that I don't have in of myself. Um when I've been reminded of his grace. I love what Titus 2 says, it's his grace that is appeared to all, that it actually empowers us to live godly and upright. Um like I'm depending, so like I guess in short, a humble spirit.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

Someone who's not coming in haughty, but really depending on God's grace to have a hard conversation, to actually embrace a moment of recognition, to um to lean in with someone when it's gonna be uncomfortable. A humble spirit is is is the only, I think, way you can you can come in bullheaded and and rebuke and confront and and all that does is just it's just like their kid is sitting there and all you're saying is I told you so, I told you so, I told you so. That doesn't relay love, that just relays this kind of arrogant, not I care about you. Um But yeah, honestly, still learning how to do that in so many ways, as I sit with kids. For sure. Uh I can only imagine when I have teenagers someday of my own, how I've been able to be a youth pastor this long, counsel and minister to teens, and then when it's happening in my own household, how that will test me differently.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

I was thinking of Romans 2, 4, you know, it's God's kindness that leads us to repentance. And there's another really interesting verse from Hebrews 5, verse 2, and it says, For every high priest is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and being led astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. And so I just love the wisdom that you shared. It's remembering that I'm not in a different position as you. Yeah. And so I'm not coming in here haughty, arrogant, telling you what to do. I'm actually able to empathize and sympathize with you because I've actually experienced the same weakness. And unlike Jesus, not only did I experience the temptation, I also succumbed to the temptation. Yeah, I acted on it. You know, Jesus is the only one who can say he experienced it and didn't sin, but you and I can actually enter in with leadership into people's lives in the places where there's confrontation with real humility, real gentleness, and belief, because we're not somehow superior to the place where they're at. And I think that when it comes with a humble, kind, and gentle spirit, it has the greatest potential to actually draw a person to experience the conviction of the spirit rather than the condemnation of the enemy.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Because so often, Jacob, what happens is when we confront people, we actually partner with the accuser. That's very partn possible. We see what's wrong, and we partner with the accuser, and we come with condemnation, and we actually have this shame-based obedience. Yeah. And people actually will respond at times because they respect you. And so they'll respond and they'll try to change their behavior, but it'll be out of the position of shame because you partnered with the accuser to bring about condemnation to their behavior. Yeah. And the conviction of the spirit is just so different. Yeah. He doesn't shame you into obedience. That's right. He invites you into repentance and to immediately experience freedom. Yeah. And so one of the things that I love to sh share is that religion says you're bad, be better. But the kingdom says you're loved, come closer. Yeah, I like that. And so whenever there's conviction, it's an invitation into nearness. Yeah. Whenever there's condemnation, it's this statement that there needs to be separation. And so I think the way that we demonstrate the heart of the Father is that we have to carry the spirit of the Father with the Holy Spirit as we confront things that are off. Yep. In all people. Yeah. And if we don't do that well, we'll do more harm than good.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Yeah, I'm thinking Romans 8:1, there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. And what does that mean? Other than you've been sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, and He's the Spirit of truth, leading us back into what's true, and it's His. Yeah, something truer than our sin, something bigger than how we could have messed things up, is His love, the reality of His love. And that's actually what we're destined for. I love how Ephesians open, it's like in His pleasure and goodwill, before the beginning of the world, He brought you forth. And I'm like, that was always that's always been the story, and that will never change. And when I'm reminded of such things, I feel like it's it's uh it's easier to come back into alignment with what He has actually intended for me. Uh-huh. Uh it's one thing to be reminded, it's another thing to live in that church.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

It's a whole nother thing to live in it in the moment. Yeah. The greatest tragedy of the Garden of Eden was not that man sinned. God knew that before the creation of the world, and that's why Revelation 13 says that he was slain before the creation of the world. I think the greatest tragedy that happened in the Garden of Eden is that they drew away in shame rather than they draw new, draw near because they knew love and grace. And I think if they would have drew near rather than distanced from, they would have immediately been restored to life. And so the same thing can happen for us. God already knows that you're gonna fall short and you're gonna sin, you're gonna stumble. It's gonna happen again and again, millions of more times for you and I, Jacob. The greatest tragedy is how do we respond in our moments of weakness? Yeah. Do we distance from and try to get better in our flesh? Yeah. Or just live completely lawless and rebellious, or do we draw near because we know love and grace? Yeah. And the difference between those two is the difference between operating in death and then immediately being restored to life. It's an amazing truth.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

And that's what he has in store. How much more? Yeah. So some beautiful, beautiful let's see here.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

I'd love to hear too, Jacob, just a little bit of your heart in regards to like giving an exhortation. You're sharing such a sweet story as it was connected to the next generation of there's so much God is doing in young people. Yeah. And like that we can take heart, and maybe our passion and our discipleship and our investment in young people is doing more than what we see on the surface. Because sometimes what we see on the surface is is anything being heard, is anything being seen, and is anything happening.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

But it was a really cool story that you shared that's like, no, you know, a lot more is happening inwardly in the heart than what I can see with my eye on the surface.

SPEAKER_04 38:19

Yeah, so this is fairly recent, it wasn't long ago. I had addressed a young man. Um I had found out he had been lying to me. So our so just short story. Youth group on Wednesday nights ends at 8:30. He was leaving with another student ahead of time. I contacted the other students, guardians, and was like, hey, do you know so-and-so's leaving with so-and-so? Um, is this legitimate? Because they had told me, no, I have to, we have to go home at this time. So it was like, no, we're allowed to leave early. My parents know that we're leaving early. And so I contacted the parent or guardian. It was like, hey, you know, I just had never heard this from you. I'm just wanting to check out if this is legitimate or not. Come to find out, parents like, no, I'd been wondering why I've been seeing my kids in the parking lot, you know, when I show up at your dismissal time, and why they're not in there with you guys doing service. Anyways, I confronted one of the boys about it um a week and a half ago, or just a week ago, and was like, hey, we need to have a heart to heart. This is a kid that he comes to youth group every week, and he does this is his posture. And it's like, I can't help but wonder, are we getting through? Do you even like being here? Holy Spirit, you keep bringing him back. He thinks he's coming because his girlfriend's in this youth group, but there's an underlying thing. I know you're working here, but what is going on?

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

Anyway, so I just had a moment with this kid. Hey, we need to have a heart to heart. And that's kind of how it opened up. Like, this might be a hard conversation, and we need to deal with this. And I just, we went and sat down on this rock outside, and I was just honest with him. Like, man, you lied to me. You lied to my face. You said you guys were supposed to be leaving at this time, and it turns out it's not actually true. And, you know, kind of starry eyed, just looked at me and was like, I'm sorry, you know. Um, and then I just asked him the question that I'd been asking God, what's going on? Why do you even come? I mean, from a little bit of a place of like, I'm fed up. You come in and you have the worst attitude. Like, you don't, it doesn't look like you want to be here. But he had been in my heart and I'd been praying for him, and and he just said, It wasn't like a huge breakthrough moment. He didn't break down, and there wasn't like this repentance. It was, you know, I know we can be a tough crowd. Because he's not the only kid in my youth group like this, but he said, I know we can be a tough crowd. But I want you to know I really do appreciate that you guys keep trying. And that was like breakthrough in my heart, in my mind, of like, oh my gosh, you you like that we keep coming after you. I've been thinking this whole time that you're fed up by it, and I've been thinking we've been doing like this the whole time, and in his mind, he has just seen us perpetually chase after him, and um where that's felt like work and responsibility and uphill, he has seen that as you're going after me. I really appreciate that you keep trying. I know I don't make it easy, but I just want you to know I I appreciate that you keep trying. And then that kind of like broke this dam where we were able to connect and actually get to know each other a little bit more. Last night he did not skip small group, so um I'm excited to see how that continues to unfold, and my view of that kid is totally different now. Yeah, um because yeah, it's just like a moment, it started out as a moment of confrontation, which then God used to kind of get to what's going on, a little bit of breakthrough. Okay, things are not as bad as I thought they were, and that fact that at least we just connected to each other where I was thinking there's no connection at all.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Yeah, so keep pursuing. Yeah, keep going, keep going, keep pursuing. Yeah, more is happening than what we see. Yeah, that's right. That's something to take heart in. That more is happening than what we see. Yeah. There's one other thing I just kind of wanted to emphasize, love to hear your thoughts on it before we close. But it seems like that within the heart, every human being is longing for an experience of love. Yeah. And love is actually the solution to every single problem that's in our life. That love drives out all fear. And it seems like one of the primary barriers in our life of all things, if you got to the root of it, that you'd be hard-pressed not to find out that, oh wow, there's fear that dwells there. And so if that's the primary barrier or hindrance, then it seems like the the solution or the antidote is love. And it's amazing. Obviously, that comes forth from God. Yeah. But in my life, what I've experienced time and time again is that just doesn't come directly from God to me. That often comes from God through another. Yeah. I experience God's love through people. Yeah. I obviously experience his love in my heart with the Holy Spirit, but so much of his love is, you know, experienced through other people who are giving it to me because they've received it from him. And so I've been like wrestling with what's this experience of love? Yeah. And like, how do I know I'm experiencing love? And then how can I know what somebody else is actually looking for in regards to love? Because it's a simple word, four letters, yeah. But it's like it feels really complicated. And so here's kind of the conclusion I came to is that when you experience love, this is what happening is happening. I feel seen. Yeah. I feel heard. After being heard, somebody really. Wants to know me, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And after they know the reality of who I am, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and there's a big mixture of all of it, they demonstrate that they value me still. They're not disappointed in me, they value me. And so it seems like if we're going to initiate love in the lives of people, and if love is the antidote that's going to drive out fear that's hindering this generation from living into the fullness of what God has for them, then what we need to do is make sure that young people know that they're seen.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

And the best way that you can feel heard is that someone's asking you questions. Yeah. They're not lecturing you, they're asking questions of you. So it seems like once you see a young person and you take interest in them, you ask them questions and you listen, and you really go on a journey of saying, I want to know you. Yeah. Not the right you.

unknown 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

That you just want the version of yourself you want me to think that you are.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Right, but the real you.

SPEAKER_04 44:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

And all of it.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

And in the midst of the mixture of all of it, I want to demonstrate that I value your word, was I want to champion you.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

And it seems like when that's packaged together, it's actually not complicated. It takes effort and intentionality. It's not complicated. It seems like a person experiences love. Yeah. And that which hinders them gets driven out of them.

SPEAKER_04 45:11

Yeah, I mean, I think of that scripture uh in first John, perfect love drives out all the fear. Yeah. And, you know, in this instance with me and that student, I, in a stra as strange as it may sound, I think he I would be willing to say that he experienced love from me and that I came after him and confronted the lie. Why are you, you know, you lied to me. That's wrong. Why are you even here? And just a willingness, rather than be like, get out, you know, don't come back if you're just gonna be doing that kind of thing, the that leading to the what's going on? Why do you come? I think helped him actually experience love, you know what? Okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm a tough crowd. Yeah. But it actually does mean a lot to me the way you keep trying to show that. And and I think you said it a second ago, it takes effort and intentionality. Love does take effort and intentionality. It's not just the feeling that we feel, it is the thing that we act upon. It's, you know, Corinthians tells us the classic, it's patient, it's kind, it doesn't keep record of wrongs, it doesn't envy, right? It but it rejoices in the truth. And none of those things happen by accident or um, but it it's it's how do I want to say like it's something that's been cultivated within us from the Father to be actually operated in and lived out, and it's just not a it's not always the most natural thing in the world, but I just feel like being patient with you.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

I just feel like flesh has no ability to love.

SPEAKER_04 46:56

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Love is for sure the fruit of a spirit.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Yeah. Yeah. So if our flesh isn't crucified, there's no ability we have to love.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

So going back to the dependency on that grace, dependency on his spirit to actually help us operate in the thing we can't operate in of ourselves, the thing he's invited us to.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

Um, it really does require dependency upon his spirit. And how are you gonna know what's in his heart if you're not in his word?

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

You're gonna be guessing. No. You're gonna be going with what sounds like good ideas, heartwarming, but if it's not God's word, then they're really just as flat as that. It's like, oh, it sounded nice in a moment, but it actually didn't change my life. Like, this um is life changing. It's the words of life. I think on your word all day. I delight in your they're more precious than silver. I meditate on this all day long. Like, why would someone do that if they didn't find life in its pages? Yeah. Um, and the spirit wasn't actually making these the Hebrew scripture, it's living and active. Yeah, you know, it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Um so love divorced from truth leads to lawlessness. Right. Um, truth divorced from heart leads to religion, but the combination of them leads to the kingdom, and so yeah, really is what like you're trumpeting to a young people, yeah. To an old people, anywhere in between. Get your heart in the heart of God, yeah, connected with the truth of God, yeah, and you inherit the kingdom of God. It's awesome. Amen. And so there really is like a lot of hope for this next generation. I kind of want to end with you praying for this. I mean, this is what your labor is for. Yeah. And I'm thinking about the Samuel's a little boy, you know, who grew up in the presence of God, the Davids.

SPEAKER_03 48:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

You know, he was a teenage boy who grew up on pasture lands and fell in love with God.

SPEAKER_03 48:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

And then Jesus, you know, we get glimpses of him. And so I think so often what we do is we look at the flesh of a young person and we call them out. And I wonder if there's just a different perspective that we could begin to take, and rather than looking at the brokenness of the flesh, we could see past it and we could see into the potential of the spirit. Yeah. And rather than calling out, you know, we could begin to be a generation that calls up the next generation, not out for what they're doing wrong, but up into what's possible and what they could become. And I think in the midst of that, Jacob is where we get world changers. Yeah. And God is about raising up people that are gonna partner with the Holy Spirit to bring about a transformation to the earth and the return of Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

Amen. Well, so yeah, that's where my heart goes, is like he's coming back for a radiant, spotless, yeah, pure bride. You know, and if that's not in my day, maybe it'll be in Logan's day. And I believe that Logan and kids like him are going to live as that radiant, spotless, pure bride who know who they belong to. And know that it's not like, oh, we just barely escaped by the, you know. It's he really is coming back triumphant for his people, and they're triumphant too, because they're in him. Um and so that a lot of that is also my peace in the endeavor to minister to this generation and that their eyes would be open to God's love. His life-transforming love is my prayer a lot. Um because he is coming back, he is coming back, and it will be triumph for him and for all who are with him. Yeah. Um come on. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

Pray for us as we end. Pray for people that are listening that are investing in or want to invest in the next generation to the Spirit of God. And then I just love for those that maybe are listening because maybe they're connected with you, especially, that are young people. Our our phrase is a consecrated generation. Yeah. That is a young person. So I'd say I want to consecrate myself to the presence of God.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Yeah. Okay, let's do it. Father, I just personally thank you for the way you've intervened on my own behalf in my teenage years, changing my life forever, showing me your perfect faithfulness, showing me the value and the worthiness of Jesus to actually live set apart, to go after you. Um, even when it's been against the grain. Um, I thank you for all the ways between that time and now that you've comforted me in the endeavor and been so patient with me when I have looked to other things. Um, it's your perfect love that has been bringing me back. It's you who began the work in me. You're faithful to complete it. Um and you've done that through a youth pastor, parents, good friends, mentors. In this moment, Lord Jesus, I'm asking that you would, uh whoever hears this, would refresh them by your love, your life-transforming love, and spur them on, that they would be sustained in whatever the call is that you have invited them into. What they they hear your voice again that you believe in them, um, that you believe in the work that you've called them to, um, and that you actually want them to experience more and more of your goodness in this endeavor. We thank you, there is no limit to your love. We thank you that you don't just stop being trustworthy. Thank you that your truth never changes. We thank you for the constant friendship and companionship we can know in your spirit. Thank you that you are still speaking and moving. God, we thank you for your word, and I'm asking that. If there's any young people listening to this and and they're just like here by happenstance, God, that you would produce in them such a fire to know you. Would you increase their capacity for your word to really take it in, feast upon it, meditate on it, uh, and to relay it to their peers. Um and then over all this, Lord, I just want to say we are still depending. We do we help us to depend on you for the work of ministry. Um we're confessing that we need you, Jesus. Help us to remain in your love. Help us to not get caught up in other things, but help us to keep our eyes on you. And it's all we ask, I'm asking all of this in the mighty name of Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Amen. Amen. Thanks, Jacob, for joining us. Thank you guys for joining us. We bless you, we believe in you, God's for you. Have an awesome day.