Stop Lying to Yourself: The MA Glass Ceiling Is Real. Here's How to Shatter It

A curriculum expert shares the hard truth about medical assisting careers, the glass ceiling ahead, and how to build real confidence before you hit it.

In this episode, Fred Nazario-Alvarado sits down with a medical assisting curriculum developer and personal mentor to tackle a topic many in the field are afraid to discuss: medical assisting is a stepping stone career, and that's not a bad thing.

Together, they explore what it really takes to build confidence, why traditional externships may be outdated, and the moment every MA needs to recognize: when the caring stops, it's time to move on.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why medical assisting is a stepping stone and why you need a plan before the glass ceiling hits
• The real difference between students who thrive and those who struggle (hint: it's discipline)
• How to build real-world readiness without a traditional externship
• Why "knowledge is power" when it comes to overcoming fear in clinical settings
• The warning signs of burnout and when it's time to move on
• How to find mentors who will fight for your growth
• The critical role your "why" plays in keeping you grounded

This conversation is raw, honest, and exactly what aspiring and current medical assistants need to hear.

My Recommended Stethoscope
I still use my Littmann from 2011 because it lasts. This is the modern version of the one I carry.

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Transcript

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The minute you stop caring, it's time to move on. Medical assisting is a stepping stone. Eventually you're gonna hit a glass ceiling. And if you don't have a plan for when the glass ceiling comes, that's when the caring stops. Welcome back to MAP, Medical Pathways for Success. I'm your host, Brett Nazario Alvarado. That voice you just heard? That is the sound of experience, speaking a hard truth. A lot of people are scared to call the MA profession a stepping stone. They think it diminishes the work. But my guest today? She isn't afraid of that reality. In fact, she's mastered it. This episode is special to me because I'm not just bringing you guys all an expert. I'm bringing you someone I consider a personal mentor. She is someone who saw that glass ceiling coming and built a plan to shatter right through it. Now, full disclosure, I actually intended to air this interview back as episode 10. It was supposed to be the finale of our brain segment, strictly about logistics and career ladders. But as I went back and listened to the recording, I realized something. This isn't just about strategy. There is so much heart in this conversation. There is deep resilience in her story and honestly, it fits perfectly right here in this season of learning how to survive the emotional weight of the job. So. Instead of me reading off her resume or telling you what to think, I'd you just hear the wisdom for yourself. So let's get right into it. Joining me is Vanna Jones, a pioneer in the industry. Now I'm gonna go off script for a second. Vanna isn't just an instructional designer. She's part of the reason why I teach the way I do. I used to teach her curriculum and she became a sort of a mentor to me. She's helped me a lot with this podcast and she's helped me realize early on that you don't always need a hospital placement or a clinical placement to learn how to be a healer. Vanna, I'm so proud and honored to have you on the show. Thank you, Fred. I appreciate you for having me. I'm actually very proud of you. I was very grateful when you came to me to ask me to be your mentor. We work together now for a couple of years. And again, just very proud of you. Happy to be here. Thank you so much. So before we get into this thick of it, let's give the listeners a quick background. How did you end up designing this unique curriculum? I ended up designing this curriculum by teaching for other schools and comparing my experience with working with current professionals, teaching at schools and seeing the gap that exists between what's going on in a real world clinical setting, what skills are needed in a real world clinical setting and what is being taught in the program. I just developed this passion of kind of bridging that gap. And I always say, I feel like curriculum shows me as I just ended up in that situation. It just happened organically. Curriculum choosing you. I mean, that makes sense. When you're seeing it out in the field and then you're comparing it to what you're teaching, it's just like, oh, they're not covering this. Let's sure we cover that in the instructions. And they just don't prioritize. That's another thing too. They don't prioritize the things that are important present day. The way we do medicine has changed so much. You know, as we've been in the game a long time. and sometimes the curriculum hasn't caught up to the times. Yeah, definitely. Medicine's always evolving. So let's address the elephant in the room. No externship. favorite topic. Yeah, 50-50 on it. Favorite topic. My students hear that they, their first reaction is that they panic because it's like, people are telling me I need to be in a clinic to get experience. And if they're not doing that in their class, how are they getting their experience? They don't feel comfortable. Exactly. So explain to a skeptical student that they can get real world experience and be real world ready without leaving the classroom. Well, really just depends on the education, it depends on the institution, it depends on the quality of the clinical lab hours in the program. This is a very layered uh topic here, because like you said, it starts in the classroom. So if the curriculum isn't built to support strong hands-on skills practicum, if the curriculum isn't built to truly, let's be honest, we teach, we get these skill sheets, right, that we're supposed to do the procedure skills, they're very specific. They have step-by-step, almost like a script on what the student should be doing. And I don't necessarily feel like instructors stick to that and really have the student commit to the steps that are in it. If the student actually studied the steps and kind of like practices almost like if they were in a play kind of thing and they almost practiced it, it would pull on the right language, right? It will pull on the right processes. It would pull on the right framework. Right? So now it feels more like a real life setting. It's set up like that in the text on purpose, but the number one problem with that is that people skim over it. Everybody doesn't teach the same way. Right? Then your lab, is your equipment good enough? Right? Are you really diving in and getting the same type of equipment that would be available to a student in a real life setting? Right? We can't, you know, sometimes in programs we try to skim or we try to use like a... things that are broken or, know, out of things to control the cause. But then the students, the simulation has to be real world like, right? So if we're using the appropriate equipment, if we are pairing students appropriately, and then I feel like there has to be some type of like health clinic component to it where people can come and get a blood pressure check or just even like a clinical day where people's family members, friends, come in and come get your blood pressure checked. Let me do your height and weight. Let me do those non-invasive things that I would be able to do. But to sum up the whole, elicit in the room, no externship thing, I feel like traditional externships are just a thing of the past. I feel like there aren't many clinics, one, that want to take externs, and that's a reflection on how well the student is groomed prior to coming on externship. for several reasons, lack of professionalism, lack of ability, lack of taking initiative, you know, they want to be on their phone, et cetera, et cetera. So it just ruins relationships with places and makes it hard to even place externs. The timeframe is so long. Can you afford to take off a work for five weeks, Monday through Friday from eight to four? Definitely not. Exactly. So the timeframe, you know, we're asking grown people with children to... commit to something that is kind of handicapping in a way. And you know, I'm not a fan of barriers to a stepping stone. I think that it should be much easier. know, so I'm always interested in meeting those needs. And then just the time, again, the timeframe. Like if you wanted to go into a clinic for two weeks to get a strong onboarding, places are doing that anyway. Virtua, Virtua is very well known for their friendliness to new hires. because they have a very, very strong onboarding process. It complicates things. And there's also the programs out there that'll get you through, like let's say some online programs, will get you through just the course, but then they expect you to find your own extraship, which makes it even harder for a lot of people out there. And I mean, honestly, removing the extraship removes a lot of anxiety. They don't have to worry about getting a bad placement um or being used for free labor. That was another, that's another one. the places that even want to, if they are taking X-turns, right, is this a facility where they're going to get those clinical skills? There's certain skills that are high priority for medical assistance. Point-to-care testing, injections, EKGs, vital signs, blood pressure being the most important one. And if you're at an X-turnship site where you're not even performing half of these skills, You still come off the site, they still give you the clinical hours for it, you still graduate, but you didn't learn anything. You was better off being at the school, right? Doing it the other way, whereas you're working with your peers, these classes are big enough to do it. Classes are big enough to do it. We can, you know, it takes more creativity on the part of the school. Yes, yes it does. That's what it does. It takes more creativity on the part of the school. And do you see a difference in the confidence because they learned in-house with you? I'm confident. That's the thing. I know the student needs to be confident, but I like to be confident that I sent you out there and I know that I taught you what you know. And I'm building confidence as a part of my program anyway. I breathe life into everyone. And it's mind over matter with a lot of things as a medical assistant, right? Pay attention to the techniques. It's very technical. It's like a TikTok dance, right? It's very technical. It's mind over matter. You have to go in confident. You know how many jobs I have, like, yeah, sure, I know how to do that. You know? So I do, feel like the confidence is higher when the student has a more personalized touch, because it's just like what you said. They can get on a site and... not even have a good mentee or a mentor or just not even get that personalized instruction and then come off the site worse off than they went on. Exactly. I'm mentioning if they decide not to ask for what they used to be doing or not that they should be doing, but not taking the initiative to do things and learn, then they're not going to learn. what they need to do the job properly. And I had a student who had a horrible externship experience and decided for a little bit that she didn't want to work in medicine simply because of her externship experience. She sat out for a little while. Then later on, that's I saw that she got back into it. But I remember her, like, the senior MAs at this externship were just so insufferable, which we know that happens, that she came on the externship and she didn't MA for a little bit. Wow. But I mean, it's, it's huge in knowing that, I mean, confidence doesn't come from being thrown into the deep end. It comes from knowing that you can swim before you jump. eh The way that you're saying it, you feel confident that they're ready to be out there. And I mean, having that support behind them, it's going to give them more confidence in turn. Yep. Totally agree. And confidence is a vital piece of it. And both parties have to have that confidence. Like then your student has to have that confidence that faith in you that they're in their hands. And then you have to have that confidence that, you know, I did what I knew I was supposed to do. Cause I tell anybody, if I told you when you failed, that's on you. Exactly. And that has to bring us right into the next topic. It's a, like we've both seen it, students crash and burn. what's the actual difference between the student who thrives and the student who struggles? Is it just studying or is it the mindset? Studying is a part of the mindset. Definitely think it's the mindset. Everything is always the mindset, right? It's what they say, as you think, so you are. Right? So it's always the mindset. I think the difference between a struggling student and a thriving student is discipline. Discipline. Discipline. That's a big one. And I was just telling my daughter this. The thing that people fear about school isn't necessarily the work. or the effort that they have to put in it. More so, they know life's gonna change now, and there's gonna be a certain level of discipline required to get through this. And your Saturday nights are not gonna be the same Saturday nights that they used to be. And your Friday night's gotta change up a little bit, especially programs have clinical hours on the weekend now to address to everyone working and everything like that. So I think people fear change, and they fear... the discipline and the structure that's required to be a student. And that is typically the difference. The more disciplined student is one who probably comes from a home life that's more structured, whose parents have real expectations of them, who structure has been a part of their life well before the educational journey, their structure in their home life. And I can always tell that right off the bat, just based off how they present. Then you have other students who discipline is new to them. So half the battle in the program is getting them to become disciplined, getting them to be on time for class, getting them to participate in class, engage, do your work, do your work on time. And by the time we train them on that, we halfway through the program. That's true. So, you know, that's one of the main things is the top thing to me is discipline. and socioeconomic, which we were just talking about. Home life, Maslow's hierarchy of needs tells us if we don't meet those basic needs, like food, shelter, water, no, we're not going to reach our highest selves. And a lot of students deal with food insecurity, homelessness, domestic violence, and they're not being I don't want to say treated that way, but that's something that has to be considered. Like if somebody's hungry, obviously they can't focus. If somebody didn't get a sleep last night, if they have to worry about where they're going to sleep when they leave here the whole time they're here, they're worrying about that. Right? You know? And so that plays a part in that too. And that's why I'm a fan of Job Corps in that way. It could use a rehaul, right? It could use a rehaul. But the idea of it. Yeah, the house they bought on. uh takes care of those social economic fears that they're having and places them somewhere where they're gonna not have to worry about it and they can actually give that thought to actually learn. Right, right. And I wish students knew how blessed they are with that, the Job Corps student. I really wish they knew. But again, that goes back to mentality and socioeconomics, the way you grew up, the thought, you the way you think. But they are so blessed in that way. Job Corps does so much for the student. You know, housing, health insurance, get your high school diploma, got food on site, you got a chef. Like it really is, you know, they got therapy services. They really consider all those different things. And, um, I'm a fan and I feel like some of those students, um, kind of ungrateful and don't really realize how blessed they really are in a situation. It's not perfect, right? It's not perfect, but it's the right idea. Exactly. It's the right idea. And I mean, that's really a key point is that. It's that it's giving you the discipline to commit to these things without having to worry about anything else. So you're able to show up. What we wouldn't do to have to worry about anything else. I know, right? So let's talk about the hands-on stuff. So ICs did into are terrified of messing up. They freeze when they have a needle or a blood pressure cuff because they're so afraid of failing. How do you get them to shake off that fear so they can actually learn? Knowledge. Knowledge is power. Knowledge is power. Right, you gotta commit to this. You have to commit to, you know, for me as a medical assistant, one of the things that I was very strong at, uh And I feel like one of the things that helped me stand out is because I was, I'm a nerd, right? Like I know what I'm talking about. That's why teaching became, was so natural to me once I got into it because I'm a natural learner as like a forever student, right? I love to learn, love school. I'd go to school right now, somebody else paid for it. So when I was coming up in the industry, it was just always important to me to learn everything about everything. Right? Whatever a doctor was doing, if they needed help, I'm behind them. And, you know, I don't know what it's like present day, but doctors back then, used to love to teach. Right? Nurses used to love to teach. I've worked with some really good nurses who taught me things that was probably outside of my scope. Oh yeah. That's like, I said this in an episode before where I was saying that in the military, as long as the providers trust you. Yeah. And you're willing to learn. They'll teach you anything. I've intubated. I've done spinals and nerve blocks. Yes. Stuff completely out of a scope for a regular like medical assistant. But I was willing to learn. I learned and did. And it was awesome. And that's that not to go off topic, but that's a good point too. Like the scope of practice changes depending on where you live. And so the more you know, you know, and when you work in those states that have a really loose scope of practice, which not New Jersey, right. It's very strict here. But when you work, like when I lived in Georgia, NA is assisted in circumcisions, MA is assisted in PESA replacements. I seen the most oh abstract things as an MA, the more, the further south, you know, that I lived and come up here on the East Coast. Now things are a little bit tighter, but to the point of the fear, that knowledge that always kept me comfortable, because I'm like somebody who's smart told me this and I know it, right? So I feel like, The way to get over the fear is to be knowledgeable. How do you do that? I tell students when you first get into a clinic, open up everything and read the instructions. Yep. Read the instructions in every point of care testing box. You better fake it till you make it. Open up every box, get acclimated to the instructions, ask questions. Always have a uh notebook with you so that, first of all, employers love that. They love when you show up ready to learn. But another thing is that's going to be very beneficial to you. You're going to either write down things that you you know, ask or things that you see. Pay attention to way your providers talk, right? Pay attention to the way people chart. Pay attention to everything. And the more knowledgeable you are, the less fearful you are. What do you do when you're going into the program and you haven't even, into the clinical environment and you haven't been exposed yet? How do you get over those first day fears? Be personable. Dive right in. Exactly. Right? Be personable and dive right in. Expect that there are going to be some, you're going to be met with some level of, you know, negativity. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Expect that. Go into it knowing that there's going to be some people that are warm, welcoming, willing to help. There are going to be other people who, not so much. You don't know anyone's story, right? You don't know why that person is the way they are. Don't indulge. All right? Stay focused on... becoming a and uh main station, focus on the reason why you're there, right? The why is very important. Very. You know, what are you doing this? You have children to feed. You can't afford to allow anything else to get in the way of that. You you want to go back to school. You're trying to get tuition reimbursement. Whatever your why is, that has to be at the forefront of your mind. Use your why, get the knowledge and the fear will subside naturally. So I want to point out to everybody listening. I've only talked about the why, I don't know how many times in my episodes. Now you're hearing it from a specialist. But if the why isn't locked in from the beginning, then some people are like, I'm doing this because I need a job. I'm doing this because I was bored. I'm doing this because my friend's doing it. I can't tell you how many times I experienced that. But I got the one friend who's strong, she's really here for real. And the other friend is just here because she's here to support the other friend. It's an expensive bill to support someone. However, it's a real thing. And you know, so it's all about the why. It goes back to if the student even really wants to really do this. And sometimes you gotta ask them that. That's true. I've had a student tell me like, Ms. V, I'm here because my mom wanted me to get off that couch. Horrible reason to be here. And I mean, that really takes us into the next, what I was gonna ask you, Max, was how do you teach pairing? caring when it comes down to your why. Yeah. You can't teach caring. Exactly. You can't teach caring. It has to be in you. And I say this, the minute you stop caring, try to move on. And that's just so many medical professionals. We see that, right? And I feel that... We have to always address the elephant in a room with the students, okay? Medical assisting is a stepping stone, right? It's a stepping stone career. I'm not saying that you can't be an MA to the day you retire, right? What I am saying is the economy, right? Lifestyles, right? People want to grow up, they want to live a different lifestyle. All of those things eventually you're gonna hit a glass ceiling, right? And if you don't have a plan for when the glass ceiling comes, because I remember when I hit the glass ceiling, I didn't even know it existed. It's like that I think I went all I can go. I went to far this I can go as a medical assistant, right? That's when the caring stops. If you stay in it, right, longer, then it meets your needs in your life and things like that. That's when you get those bitter, mean, don't wanna help medical professionals. When you have students, they need to be aware that these types of professionals exist. When you go into this, you need to be made aware that you may or may not come into an office, into a space. where you're dealing with somebody who is, you know, in that frame of mind. And that's where I feel like caring comes in. Because once you get to that point, time to move on. It's true. time to move on. You stop caring about your patients. Yeah, exactly. Stop caring about your patients. You start caring about the job. You just stop caring about getting up to do it. Yep, yep. And it affects you. you're calling out. Exactly. Now you're, yeah. I remember when I got to that point, I'm like, it's time to move on. Didn't know what that looked like for a while. But I definitely remember when I got to that point where I'm like, okay, can't, there's nothing else left for me to do with like being a manager. When you get to that point, I'm like, I know as much as the doctor. You're just like, know as much as the manager. So you know I love a good underdog story. Is there a specific student who sticks out in your memory? Maybe someone who came in super unsure or nervous, but left like a total rock star? I have several students like that. Several students who always say, I didn't think I could actually do this. Or you gave me faith in to now I wanna go back to school and I wanna further my education, cuz I didn't think education could be an option for me. But I do have one student who really stands out in that way. She's a recent student. oh She's still got a lot of growing to do. She still has a lot of growing to do, but my girl made it out and I'm proud of her. And I feel like it comes down to the instructor at that point because I had it for her. I had it for her. My heart was in it. I'm like, we're getting you through this program. You need this. I knew her life story. I knew that she needed a way out of that. I knew she was her only option out of that. took it a step further. I was more than her teacher. I was like a life coach to her, which is a slippery slope, because you never get rid of a master there. Now I have a million godbabies and nieces. I mean, I'm in all types of families, mothers that I know and the mothers I'm very grateful. But, you know, teaching and at-risk students, because that's what we're talking about, the at-risk students right there. That's what they call them in the world of education, the at-risk demographic. I feel like they're my specialty. And I do love my well-trained, well-oriented, like my daughter, Makaya. I love my Makaya students. Right, they make my job easy. However, the at-risk students are the ones that it feels very rewarding once you get them. You get them from day one, you see them, have horrible habits. And then once you get them to the end, they're graduating, they pass their test, they're so grateful. I've had students like, I'm gonna be the first one in my family to make it out of Camden. I'm gonna be the first one in my family to go to college. And one of them young ladies just got her bachelor's in nursing at Rokers. So it, I have several students who come in, cause be real, who's this demographic? Who's this demographic that comes to vocational training programs? If they wanted to go to university, that's the way they'd be. I had a student who was just working at ShopRite, across the street. Now she's at Virtua. Like literally right across the street. Like you walked, you walked right across the street into the next part of your life. Good for you girl. That's my girl. So when you see a transformation like that, when do you think the switch was? For the student? For the student. Mid program. I feel like mid program is where you're going to see the most. You'll kind of know what the other side of it's going to be. They're dealing with you a while now. Right? The halfway point. Do you feel like it's the curriculum or is it them finally believing in themselves? The curriculum has to be designed in a way that the student doesn't feel defeated by it. It has to be student friendly. know your audience. Yes, bro. You know your audience. The same way you tailor your conversation or your audience is the same way you gotta tailor. That's the thing I love about curriculum development. There's something called scaffolding that allows you to tailor the level of how you. deliver certain content based on your audience. So yes, the curriculum, believe it or not, has a connection to that. But I think it really is, that part is internal. Like once they start to really believe in themselves, positive self-talk is very important. I used to teach a job readiness program at Stockton for like TANF recipients and underneath a workforce grant. And one thing I liked about uh Stockton's job readiness curriculum is that it had a real focus on self. Like it wasn't just about job searching. It wasn't just about resume writing. There was a whole focus daily on self-reflection, positive self-talk, know, engaging with your internal triggers, knowing your body, knowing your mental health, knowing when things are wrong. You know, I like the fact that it viewed the students holistically, right? Just like we just said before, has to be. Students are not, no one is one way. Yeah. People are multifaceted. I mean, really, that shift is everything. I mean, once they stop acting like a student and start acting like a professional, it's really when the switch kicks in. And you know how you can, one way to promote that is to praise those who praise your top performers. That's true. When you praise your top performers, you create, and I don't mean isolate. Right? Because you can do that too. You isolate the top performers and now it's more like a grudge thing. Or you can praise and, you know, reward the top performers in a way where other people now look at that as a goal to reach. Like, I want to be recognized in that way. um My mentor in the online world, she calls it stacked credentials. And like celebrating the small wins along the way kind of gives people. the encouragement like, okay, I won this level. Let me go to this like playing the game. Right. That's true. want to get to the next level. You give this many points on this level. Right. And you keep kind of like working up to like digital badges is a way that they do it in online courses, but celebrating the small ones. Yep. And I mean that the small little celebrations back up the point where you're like, oh wow, I've really done quite a lot. That's it too. They need to be able to look rear view sometime. Like, so I had, um, uh someone that I worked with, program director at a school, and she has her students write a letter to themselves on day one. And she gives the framework for the letter. Like, why did you choose to join this program? What do you expect to get out of the program? How do you expect to do that? Et cetera, et cetera. And she said, any time a student is hitting a wall, she give them that back. Oh wow, that's She lets them see it. don't forget, read this. Don't forget how you felt on day one. And then at the end of the program, she gives it back to them with another paper to self-reflect on how do you feel now? And I mean, it's nice because that's bringing back that focus back onto their why. Why are they there? We keep ending up at the why. Exactly. So now that we've talked about the students, the ones that have graduated, now we're at part, now we're at graduation, they're going into their first job. So they're going from student to employee. But that first day on the job is terrifying. And since your students don't do an externship, how do you make sure they don't freeze up when they walk into their first real job? Well, we've had it going on. stimulated this so much, right, that it's all about communication. That's the part that they fear. You know, having a conversation, right, when you have to go to the waiting room, get your patient, bring him back, it's all about communication. That's the part that people fear. Speaking to the doctor, speaking to their peers, because it's new to them. So they know, what if I don't use the right language? What if I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about? One, knowledge is power, right? But then two, you gotta know how to communicate, right? Which is why there's a strong focus in the medical assisted curriculum on therapeutic communication. And if communication principles are applied throughout your simulations, right, then the student will naturally gain that comfort and really shouldn't feel new. Like we should come up with all types of scenarios in that clinical process. that the student has faced this before, right? You dealt with, let's deal with the angry patient. Now let's deal with the happy patient. Let's deal with the patient that is late for their appointment. Like we have to think of all these different scenarios that could possibly happen and what you would do in those situations. And then that person, but you have to come into this with a certain level of confidence. You can't be timid to be a healthcare professional. No. Like, so that's something else too. Personality development, character development. It has to be a part of the program. If you're quiet as a church mouse, this might not be for you. Yeah. Right? Because you have to, personality goes into roles that you pick, right? Someone who is, large crowds can never be a teacher. That's true. Right? So you have to first have the personality for this. You can't come to us completely broken, and you know what I mean? And then ask us to create a miracle. Now granted, nervousness is natural. Yes. Even I'm nervous. If I have to do a mock teach, I teach so well, but let me have to do a mock teach. And think I'm not sweating or nervous about how I'm being received. I get very nervous. However, I know I know what I'm talking about, but if I stutter, that's fine. If I'm looking off camera or whatever, that's fine. Those are all things that I can work on, but I know what I'm talking about. Exactly. And it's not just with medicine, it's everything. You have to have a certain level of confidence when you go into things. You got to be personable. Right. So those day one jitters, the excitement to be in the industry should, I feel, should overpower. The nervousness. The nervousness. Yeah. It should be, you should be excited about this day. And you know what else too I tell students, nobody's perfect. Our doctor's not perfect. They're with five minutes because they're going to go in the office and look something up. Yep. Why you think they have PDR? Doctors don't go in that room. and goats in that book, I'm old school, now they can look at it on the computer. But I remember plenty of my doctors going back into their big office and going like this, I'm like, all right, we're going to prescribe this, this, this, this, this. That's what the PDR is for. We practice medicine. We don't perfect medicine. The goal is, but we practice medicine. With medicine, it's always evolving. There's no way to be perfect at medicine. But I would tell everybody, everyone who's in our healthcare industry or everyone who's in that office is practicing. Because we practice medicine, we're all at different levels of the practice, right? But we're all practicing. Everybody was new at one point, even your doctor. Yep. I just broke. And you send these students out into healthcare systems and they're frankly pretty broken right now. I mean, it's lot of people are being overworked because staffing issues maybe, the load of patients. So how do you prepare them to mentally so they don't get burned out in six months? Well, one thing is a lot of the curriculums are, they do have that in the introductory chapters of recognizing burnout, stress management, know, taking your days off, using your PTO. So that has to go into your professional development, right? There has to be a professional development component of the course. I do believe that professional development should be sewn into the program throughout. I don't think it's something that they should just do cumulatively at the end. I feel like it's something that should be worked on throughout. But burnout does show up in a lot of our current tech. It's a thing, right? We're in an age where we are considering mental health more than we ever have. And so, have that conversation. Never, a student should never go into practice and experience something. that they didn't discuss in school. That's true. I mean, and it's funny because that's the kind of thing that I'm, this is the reason for one of the, podcast in general is because there is so much stuff that isn't covered in the school. And the reason why I discovered, I decided to start this podcast is so that they are aware of these things being out there. People, they stay out the industry too long. They don't have a real connection to it, you know? And so I feel. They just forget. what's not happening, mean, they're forgetting what's out there. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And I feel that's one of the phenomena about being an allied health instructor is you gotta find some way to stay connected to real world. Yeah. Whether it's through advisory, like through friends, like, you know, me, I moved on to teaching, you and Jen were knee deep in the field. If I have to ask her a question, Jen has told me plenty of times of the test that changed in the office or. the protocol and the way they do things have been updated, know, the recommendations. But you you have to engage like, continuing education, professional development beyond those little CEUs that we do for NHA. Right, because people never pick the good ones. They always pick the ones that they know already, can either test out. Exactly, they're just trying to get those CEUs so they can renew their certification. Yeah, but I really feel like that part falls on the instructors, that's not on the students. The instructors do not do enough on their own time to master their craft. And when you're not mastering your craft, it's hard for you to bring that holistic experience to the classroom. And part of it is the curriculum. Part of it is the lesson plan. But the other part of it is like, what do you do when you're out there in the real world and this is going on? Another thing that I do, I encourage my students to watch medical shows. You better have one. You better watch The Pit. You better... Because Scrubs, well, it's a comedy. Scrubs is a comedy, but it's the most accurate as to how people actually work out in the field. They say that's not all about being serious the entire time like Grey's Anatomy is most of time. Love Grey's, don't do that. But I'm saying it's more serious, but the tell than the actual field is more jovial and you guys all working together and just having You know, I speak to people and there's a lot of people who do not... I Grey's for all of the soapy drama part of it. They hate that part of it. I love Grey's. But a classic? ER. ER is a classic. And I think that's what everybody likes about the pit. Because the main guy in the pit came from, what's his name? Noah something. He came from ER. My mom watched ER growing up. Man, I love ER. I think maybe medicine kind of came from that. I loved ER growing up. Gotta watch a good medical show. Because, so I wanted to just go back to something that you said about how do you make a student comfortable? That's why vocabulary is so important to me. You know that, I prioritize vocabulary in curriculum. There is no way you can be in this industry and not speak the language, right? And that's with everything, but vocabulary. is so important and if you are really mastering your med term, not only does it help you with exam, right? Because you might come to a question that you really don't know, but you know your terminology, so you know what it's not. Exactly. Right? So that can help in that way. And then also when I tell them to watch these medical shows, I'm like, watch how much more you understand the conversation. Watch the medical shows. and watch how much more you get the corny jokes that the rest of us is cracking up about. It's rewarding now when you're like, oh my god, I just watched this whole episode and I actually know what they're talking about. Or you're like, oh my god, Erty went that wrong because I just learned this. Right, one time I was watching and Meredith held up the total wrong tube. I was like, that's wrong. That feels good to know that you know what you're talking about. I had a student tell me that before. She went to the cardiologist and. You know, something was going on her heart, the point is to let Ms. V actually know what my atrium is. I said, I bet you do, girl. All right, Benna, before we get to the map moment, I want to ask you this. Yes. For the student listening right now who is doubting themselves, maybe they think they aren't smart enough or maybe they just think they've been out of school too long. What is the one thing you want them to know? Never too late. I'm late. We're always capable of more than what we think we are. And you'll never know what you're capable of until you do it. What's the worst thing that can happen? It doesn't work out. Exactly. Right? What's the worst thing that can happen? But fear cannot be the thing that holds you back in life. Because everything, new things are scary to everyone. If it's new, it's scary. New relationships, scary, new city, new job, know, new is scary, but. You gotta go for it. Exactly, yeah. You ain't gotta go for it. I never let anything make me scared because I was raised that I can do all things. You know, it always goes back to that. And I know a lot of people weren't raised the same way. And if you had a less than stellar upbringing, get you some strong mentors. Get strong mentors around you. Go out there and find what you were missing, because everybody needs that. Because how I was raised plays a major part in my ability to be successful because I never really feared anything. I would say the biggest dream, everybody be like, what? We gonna do it. Oh yeah. It's gonna take time, but we gonna do it. I never been scared and I got a credit that to my parents. So do it. Do that. I mean, look at me. I was never thought I'd be a... venture or speaker and here I am doing a freaking. Hey, let me tell you something. You know why I picked you, right? Because I'll never forget your interview. I said, oh my God, he knows this anatomy just like me. But I'll never forget it and knowledge is power. See, the rest of you had to develop, right? But the knowledge. Yeah. And when you have the knowledge, you can fix everything else. You know what mean? You can develop everything else. You could work on everything else. But when you know, like you know what you know, that that's the thing. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for being here. You're definitely a game changer in this field for sure. Thank you. And I'm honored to have you here on that. Thank you. All right. Let's bring it home. It's time for your map moment. wish to keep you going, stay focused, keep strong your pathway to success I'm gonna be honest with you. Today's challenge is uncomfortable. We just spent 30 minutes talking about how Vanna went from teacher to a mentor to a game changer. But here's the thing we often forget. She didn't do it alone and neither will you. So here's your challenge for this week. I want you to find one person who was currently standing where you want to be. Maybe it's an instructor you admire. Maybe it's a working medical assistant at your doctor's office. Or maybe it's an instructional designer like Vanna. And I want you to send one message. I know, I know. You're thinking, Pred, I don't want to bother them. Or what if they don't reply? Here's the truth, the only way you stay stuck is by staying silent. So send the email, ask the question, how did you handle the first year? Or what is one thing you wish you knew when you started? 30 seconds of courage, that's all I'm asking for. And then tell me what happened, seriously. Email me at madpodcast at outlook.com because I want to celebrate that win with you. You never know. You might just be one message away from being your own mentor, but you'll never know if you don't hit send. I want to leave you with one final thought before we go. We just spent the last 45 minutes talking about a program that breaks the mold. A curriculum that says you don't need to follow the traditional path to be excellent. And I think that applies to more than just school. That applies to you. You might be sitting there thinking you started too late. Or that you don't fit the typical mold of a medical student. Or that you're too scared to take the first step. But if Van has taught us anything today, it's that confidence builds confidence. And confidence? That is what changes lives. Vanna is doing this work because she believes in people like you. She saw a gap and instead of complaining about it, she built a bridge. Now it's your turn to walk across it. Wherever you are on your journey, whether you're in a classroom, in a clinic, or just in your car dreaming about a different life, remember this. You don't need permission to be great. You just need to start. Until next time, keep learning, keep growing, and keep following your map, your medical pathway for success.