Matt Bernstein

Matt Bernstein (aka @mattxiv) is a force to be reckoned with. A 27-year-old, progressive political commentator who has cultivated a 2M+ following by combining clear-eyed, heartfelt, sharp-witted cultural discourse with gorgeous glam and a calm, confident delivery. His video podcast, A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein, has become a touchstone in the digital landscape as a rational, ethical, and hilarious voice calling for political and social accountability and standing up for basic human rights for all. Ilana and Matt discuss right-wing grifting, his innate passion for politics, and the privilege and joy of simply getting to live as one’s true colorful self.

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Host: Ilana Glazer
Producers: David Rooklin, Annika Carlson, Madeline Kim, Kelsie Kiley, Glennis Meagher
Video Producers: Lexa Krebs, Louise Nessralla
Audio Producers: Nicole Maupin, Rachel Suffian, Rebecca O’Neill
Lighting Director: Kevin Deming
Editor: Tovah Leibowitz
Graphics: Raymo Ventura
Outro Music: Don Hur

All Things It’s Open: linktr.ee/itsopenpod
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to It's Open With Alan and Glazer. That's me. That's me. That's me. Um, why am I so happy? Because I just finished talking to a young person who made me realize, you know what? The kids are all right. They may be indoctrinated to the manosphere in Club America. But honestly, like our instincts are to have human rights for each other. Honestly. This young person is a political commentator and also a podcast creator and host called It's a Bit Fruity. You can check it out on YouTube. Um, but damn, he gives me hope. I look to him for leadership to understand things the way old fogies sometimes need translation by younger people to understand shit. Um and I fucking love him. I'm so proud of him. Today's episode is with Matt Bernstein, also known as Matt XIV on Instagram. Um, so come on in. It's open. Mad X IV.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Mat X IV.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

It's Matt Bernstein, but Mad X IV, I'm just learning where the um handle comes from. Tell us.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

It was like Roman numerals. Which like Roman is like moon phases. It was just a lot of like the hipster, the like 2010s hipster stuff. So when I made Instagram in 2012, it's when I like set up my account, I just called it Mad X IV because I was 14 years old and I was like 14 years old.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

So you're born in 98?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

I was born in 98.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Because Matt, I am so um, I am so moved by your work, and so uh it gives me hope that young people can. I know it's not easy, but it seems effortless to you to navigate the full scam bullshit that is mainstream discourse, indoctrination into white supremacist capitalism. And the way that you just pull apart the wool layers of wool laid before you, it gives me hope. And you make it seem easy, um, which I know it's not in my own personal education. Although perhaps because you were 14 when you got on Instagram, perhaps there is an aspect to youth that makes it easier to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I don't know if that's true because I think a lot of people my age, as in most generations at this point, feel like really overwhelmed and exhausted. I don't think I'm like particularly good or special in that way. I'm just obsessed with it. I also like I wasn't doing political discourse when I was 14. Like, that's not what my Instagram was. It was like artsy pictures of the beach, you know, with like the with like the Instagram Nashville filter on it. But at this point, I am 27 and for basically my whole adult life, I have been just kind of obsessed with politics. And a lot of people ask, like, how like not not to pat myself on the back or anything, because it's really it's just an interest that comes naturally to me, but they'll be like, How do you like keep doing it every day? How do you read the news all the time? How do you like stay on it without feeling exhausted? And it's just because, like, even when everything is terrible, like I'm still, I don't know, the news and like the world and the way that people treat each other, it just feels like a big like puzzle that I'm always interested in, like seeing how everything fits together. It really is just so interesting to me. Um, and even then, I still get overwhelmed sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

So you are so timely with your responses to things. One thing that comes to mind is oh my god, it was so it was so embarrassing and such a true Shonda. The white Jewish woman who used to work with the Obamas, who wrote this book as a Jew.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Sarah Hurwitz.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Sarah Hurwitz, yeah. Yeah, this woman, Sarah Hurwitz, was talking about why young Jews are so mad and defecting from, I wouldn't even say Judaism, actually. I would say defecting from Zionism. From Zionism. That's right. Um, and she was like blaming the horrific images, and she used very reckless, dehumanizing language, objectifying Palestinians about a genocide occurring to them uh upon them right now that we're still seeing um in real time.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

She said, young people, young Jewish people have taken the wrong lessons from Holocaust education. She's saying the way that they are empathizing with Palestinians living under an Israeli genocide uh is is evidence that they took the wrong lessons from Holocaust education. No, what you should have learned was that you should solely have empathy for Jews facing persecution, not for anyone else, especially when the persecution they're facing is from Jews. And I just like what a bastardization of what I'm saying. Which is that genocide is wrong when it happens to anyone.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

That's right. And that we're all connected, and never again means never again for anyone and everyone. Never again a genocide against anybody is what it means to be Jewish.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

Truly.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

I kept saying, like, Sarah Hurwitz was on this book tour, and it felt like every day there was a new video coming from like where she's speaking on a stage and saying just the most egregious, heartless, dehumanizing anti-Palestinian racism. And I said when I was making those videos about her, like, I hope she keeps speaking. Unfortunately, her press tour did eventually end, but like she was such a useful individual because she was being very open about what the Zionist project actually is.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

And she she didn't have like a lot of the great um, I call them Hasbaristas, but like basically propagandists for Israel. Like they are very good at Hasbaristas?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

What's Has?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

So Hasbara is basically it's um, it's I believe it's the Hebrew word for understanding. Um, but Hasbara is generally known inside and outside of Israel as like the story that Israel tells the world about itself. Israelis will use this word as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Copy that.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Um, but it's sort of become a pejorative in anti-Zionist circles because Hezbara is basically propaganda.

SPEAKER_02 6:01

Copy that. Copy that. And actually, let me just walk the listeners and viewers back for a second. So what was blowing me away about this was in real time on her fucking press tour, which it was as though she was falling down a flight of stairs verbally every day. And you were taking the puzzle pieces apart and then fitting them back together in real time daily, in a way that, like I felt in my heart the same thing as you, but damn, Matt Bernstein, I was fully learning from you and following your lead in how to articulate those feelings in my heart that were all like in a cauldron. I couldn't pick them apart. And I was so grateful because it was so, so hurtful. By the way, like hurtful as someone who, you know, just I desperately want to see Palestinians have dignity and their basic human rights met, and then also for them to be left alone on their land to, I don't even know what the word is. Their heel doesn't cover it, but whatever. I want to see a free and fair Palestine. Okay. First and foremost, because that's the crisis. But I'm also like, Sarah Hurwitz, grill, you you're you're making Jews less safe, which this Zionist project is. So to see someone, you, be able to like call it out immediately was like a relief, um, you know, for like our Palestinian brothers and sisters to know that it's not that's this is not what we believe, Hasbara, as I'm now learning, as you say. But also to represent progressive human rights-centered Jews in the appropriate way. You we really feel represented by you and thank you for it. And the speed, the speed is incredible, Matt.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

It's like, it's for all this makeup, I'm blushing.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

I'm amazed. I'm amazed, and I'm so proud of you and so grateful.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Thank you. Um, that is way more praise than I am personally willing to accept, but I do appreciate it. I just feel like, I mean, first of all, like I credit everything that I know about, you know, Palestinian life and Israeli oppression to the Palestinians that I learn from every day. Um, Mohammed Al-Kur, Ghissan, Plestia, uh Motaz, Omar al-Aqad, all of these people who have been documenting a genocide that they've been also living through, that their families have been living through. Um, so yeah, I mean, it's funny what you said about like Sarah Hurwitz is making Jews less safe. And I get this comment all the time from Zionists saying that my being a Jewish person, criticizing Israel, criticizing Israeli apartheid, criticizing now this like a state upheld by constant violence that's now leading the entire world into war, that that is making Jews less safe. And to me, it is people like Sarah Hurwitz who inextricably tie at every single opportunity all Jewish people to the state of Israel.

unknown 8:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

And this insistence this insistence that it's anti-Semitic to critique every facet of how Israel is structured as a state, that is making like, and and the fact that in a lot of ways, members of the Republican Party have beat Democrats and the like liberals to the punch on being able to call this out as a human rights atrocity. And they are now wielding, I mean, we're getting into so much, but like they are now wielding very real anti-Israel sentiment into anti-Semitic sentiment. Look at the way Candace Owens talks about Israel and Jews very seamlessly in the same sentence.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

And it it makes me crazy because the Democratic establishment left this issue on the table because of them being in bed with APAC and J Street and all these pro-Israel funds. They've left the issue on the table for someone like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, to come in and take credit for correctly identifying this as a humanitarian issue and so concerning.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

That's exactly right. That's that's the point at which I am right now. We are still witnessing a genocide. And not only is it a genocide, now we're seeing the plans of our government to build high rises. It is not only sadistic and psychotic and murderous, it's also just disgusting bad taste. I I can't even um hold it. I continually spill out about it. And, you know, that honestly, that's where I'm at. And I actually think that's for me how it should be right now. Losing my mind. But then also I'm starting to see that where we're at right now in spring of 2026 and uh October 7th happened, 1,200 Israeli Jews killed by Hamas. October 8th began Israel's genocidal response. It's taken however long this is, two and a half years, to get to this point where anti-Semitism and anti-Israel sentiment is being absolutely uh wielded by the white supremacist colonial power structure and centering um Israel as the uh root of this system rather than a branch off of the white supremacist colonial system. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Yeah, it does. And I think also just like the right wing of American politics often just sort of ebbs and flows uh between Islamophobia and anti-Semitism. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

And clings to scapegoating, whichever group feels like a better scapegoat at the time. That's right. I think a lot of these figures on the right, um, like uh a Candace Owens, like uh Tucker Carlson, like Nick Fuentes, like Marjorie Taylor Green, they are looking at the future of the Republican Party after Trump. Because Trump has two years left. You know, he is at the, I think the MAGA movement is like seeing its end right now. It's I mean, it's sort of falling apart right now. Um, but what's next? And I think what's next is these people who are correctly identifying an Israel genocide in Gaza, um, but they are linking it to how people should feel about Jews and you know, Jewish conspiracies about global control and global power, even though we know some of the biggest American supporters for the project of Israel are Christian, which is a whole other thing. That's right. Christian Zionists, like Lindsay Graham, Ted Cruz type. And I think that they're just seeing the writing on the wall, and they're also, you know, some of them, yes, they'll frame it as like this isn't it's immoral to do a genocide, but are they also really connecting with right-wing audiences by framing it as what happened to America first, you know?

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Which I the scary thing is I agree. Having that seed of truth where um, you know, waterlogged, trapped under the pool for a season, RFK Jr. will say that foods have preservatives, start with a seed of truth, and then twist it into this insane thing where women who are pregnant shouldn't take Tylenol. They start with the truth. I want America first. I don't want to be bombing people. That's not where I want my fucking taxes to go. Yeah, of course. But then they'll spin it into full anti-Semitism. And as you talk about the inextricable, um inextricably intertwined danger and safety of Jews and Arabs and Jews and Muslims, especially in the United States. Let's just fucking limit it there for a second.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Um it's these people, Candace Owens, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson, want to see a an America in the future free of Jews and Arabs, free of Jews and Muslims. They want to eliminate Jews and Muslims and Jews and Arabs.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Yeah, they're Christian, they're Christian nationalists. You know, I know a lot of people have seen a lot of people on the left, a lot of people who listen to my stuff, who follow me, they've sent me messages saying, why is Tucker Carlson making sense? And the thing about that is under a microscope, if you listen to a single thing that Tucker Carlson says about like Israel committing a genocide with our tax dollars is wrong, that does make a lot of sense. The problem, though, is that people like Tucker and Candace, they are fundamentally Christian nationalists. They are not coming at this issue from an ethic of equality, uh, from an ethic of like we all deserve human rights. They are coming at it from this position of like, you know, like, no, we need to bring our resources back to America. And then once we're here, we need to like consolidate into this Christian nation.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

So Oh my goodness It's it's just take another moment on that. We have to bring our resources back to America and then consolidate under a Christian nation.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Well, yeah, I mean, that's that's what they want. That's what they want. I mean, they're very open about that. Yeah, it's it's more. The problem is like they attract a potentially much wider net of listeners by saying common sense shit, like genocide against Palestinians is wrong. But then once you get absorbed into their world, uh, you'll end up hearing a lot more insane shit that doesn't lend itself to, like I said, like an ethic of human rights or equality for all.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Which is why, you know, I I encourage people, if they want to actually like stand against genocide, uh, to listen to people on the left.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah.

unknown 15:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Because it's coming from a place of like genocide is wrong, not because like the Jews control the world or whatever, but because like genocide is wrong because everyone deserves human rights, no matter what their race, religion, gender, et cetera, is.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

The other thing that like has been just I find so depraved is the co-opting of Christianity, which has like legit foundational values in it. So when these people are saying, you know, consolidate into a Christian nation, it's not really like true Jesus Christianity. You know what I mean? It's like um, it's more um Nexium cult than Wow, Nexium.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

I was literally talking on the phone with my boyfriend last night and about Catherine Oxenberg's daughter who is in Nexium. That's crazy. That's come up twice in two days.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

That's that's wild.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

I don't know. For me, when I hear a lot of these uh right wing media people talk, which I do spend like a good portion of every day listening to them talk, I'm just like, did you like did you not go to preschool? I know. Like where you where you talk about bullying, like when I see Riley Gaines, who's like beating up on the same transgender woman who doesn't even have a public profile for years and years and years and years and years and years, and grifting millions of dollars off of just bullying people with no societal capital at all. I'm like, we're I don't know, like at what point did our lives become so different?

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Um You and Riley Gaines, for example.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Right, yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

I know Riley Gaines and I know, and I'm I'm like, were all these right-wing people, is it the you know, 1% of people who were actually like hurting the other children in preschool who have a natural predetermined sociopathy? Like these people seem sociopathic. They do. I I did not, I knew the name Riley Gaines. And like in the way that like I haven't watched this, I haven't watched that, I don't need to watch the vow. I I really try to protect my sweet little brain from garbage and and garbage messages and garbage spirits. I just try to keep it out as much as I can and just focus on the good because I think that actually can move forward. So I didn't know what Riley Gaines was until a nice, a really helpful unfolding of her recently. She is mad that she lost fifth place. She is mad she lost fifth place in a swimming competition to a trans woman. So now she is making millions of dollars off of anti-trans messaging. That is so stupid. That is so uncreative. That's literally stealing. You're just stealing money that could be used elsewhere to evoke anti-trans messaging, which genuinely leads to violence against trans women one-on-one, violence. It liter and and of course, this mass mobilization to erase trans people from our country. Yeah, but it's fucking insane.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Why get bogged down in like the facts or statistics or reality or truth of anything when you could just profit off of you know inducing fear into people about the most minoritized people in this country? Alana, why would you do that?

SPEAKER_02 18:29

And I'm just like, this person, Riley Gaines, has some energy.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

She also, she also, she so okay, for people who don't know at all about Riley Gaines, she was basically a University of Kentucky student, NCAA swimmer, who at a swim meet, she actually didn't lose fifth place. She tied for fifth place. She tied for fifth place uh with a trans woman. This was now four years ago, uh, at a college swim meet.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Cuckoo Kaka.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

You know what's so interesting about Riley Gaines, I've talked about her as a case study a lot, is if you read these local interviews that she gave right after uh the race, she said, you know, it was a little disappointing to have to, you know, tie with someone. And for the photo op, they only had one trophy. So they gave my, you know, fifth place tire the trophy, and then they mailed me one in the mail. Uh so she ended up getting the trophy too, which I didn't even know there was a trophy for fifth place, but you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Uh and it's like rose gold, like what?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Yeah, exactly. Like it's I don't know, it's like rubber. Um but she said in like this really early interview right after the race, she was like, regardless of everything, you know, this sucks, but I wish her well in her transition is literally what she said, bar for bar.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

And if you look just one year later, after she's gotten this Fox Sports podcasting deal, she's going on all the shows, she's doing the circuit, she's making money. She was she was gonna be a dentist, but she didn't have to go to dental school and ended up getting so much more money doing this. The answer is right there because they just get so much money, they being like right-wing grifters. I'm not talking about nonbinary gains. Yeah, Riley Gaines, they them. Um you know, like she she gets this money thrown at her. She gets all these organizations, the turning point type people, they coalesce around her and they say, No, you've been victimized. You've been victimized by the trans cult, by the gender ideologists, righteous in becoming more and more cruel. And also, hey, it plays a lot better on Twitter. Uh, so plays a lot better than what?

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Not being cruel?

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Than just saying, yeah, I tied for fifth and I wish her well in her transition, and ultimately we all have to move on with our lives.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Now I'm also understanding this is not just a money-making scheme. She also has been, she has merged her desire to believe that she was uh robbed with some new semblance of reality that she was robbed.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Fifth place.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah, fifth place.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

That position people are always talking about wishing that they could just come in by themselves instead of having to share the fifth place podium that nobody knew existed.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Oh my God, it's so sick.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

And there's this like, you know, this It's so exciting when I get to make a Lana Glazer laugh. By the way.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

But I'm so happy it's here because when I put my boots back onto shelf, I put on Bomba's footwear. Check this out. Oh, yeah. It's time for springtime and summer, baby. This is waterproof. This is lightweight. I could toss it. Here's another product. I could toss it in my bag. I could toss them on, walk outside, take a shower at the gym. You know what I'm talking about? That's a brag that I go to the gym. Um, and I'm just loving it. This is Bomba's footwear. I thought they just made socks. No, they make uh footwear too. You know what I also didn't realize they make? Underwear and t-shirts. I'm wearing it right now. It's breathable, it's soft, it's uh it's feeling good in my body. Oh, check this out. Yeah, that's nice. That's really it just feels good. I'm loving it. And something I did not know about Bombas is that for every item you purchase, an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated, with over 150 million donations and counting. Whew, these are high quality products. And to think that I'm buying something and someone who needs this is receiving it as well makes me feel good. So head over to bombas.com slash Alana and use the code Alana to get 20% off your first purchase. So Bombas is B-O-M-B-A-S.com slash Alana I-L A N A, and then use the code Alana I-L A N A to get 20% off. See you later. This is kind of like what I was like just shifting into. There's like a trillion dollar hate message machine that we don't know exists. It is so in the darkness. Now we're seeing what turning point is. We all heard about the Koch brothers. There's uh and and also um Project 2025. You know, we're we're now starting to see, oh, somebody wrote a 900-page paper. Well, many, many people were funded very, very uh lushly to make that paper, to organize it, to get, you know, it's like there's no word for it. And and there's no equivalent on the left, and there's certainly no equivalent for real progress. Corporate Dems, yeah, there's no fucking container, but there's no container for true progressives.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, I mean, corporate Democrat influencers, though, it's like not real. Like there are some who are, you know, basically like shills for the mainstream Democrats who like those are the people who you'll see, like they get plucked to do an influencer speech at the DNC, but like nobody really knows who they are because everyone with real like cultural cachet on the left is very scary to Democrats. Right. Which is why I mean I don't want to like selfishly involve myself in that category, but like I didn't get an invite to the DNC in 2024. Right. Neither did like Hassan Piker, for example, who they're all freaking out about now more than ever because they're seeing how uh how people like him could actually sway the future of these people's careers if they don't stop taking APAC money.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

But also, like, I'm uh even still, like it's it's useless. It's so limp and weak because it's not moving anybody, you know? Whereas like the hatred, like the machine, the profit, and the the messaging, like it really lines up and has generation after generation.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

The people freaking out of this about this, none of you even care about women's sports when you can't relate it to trans people.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

You guys don't watch it. Yep, you guys don't invest in it, you guys don't care. You mock it when they're at the Olympics winning.

unknown 25:10

Fuck.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

So it's let's be real. It's you know, you just hate trans people a little more than you hate cis women, and that's what this is about. But when you have the opportunity to support women's sports in the same way that you support men's sports, you don't take it. That's right. So this isn't about women's sports.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

It's so gross. And also like the the masculinity and femininity, it's like it is so to me, so unfeminine to hate other women. Um, you seem to love your parents. It seems that you love your daddy, you love your mommy. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 25:44

I do, but where'd you pull that from?

SPEAKER_02 25:45

You like have posted your dad loving you, and people are like, you're not a man, man, or whatever, and they're like, Yeah, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I post less of them now because it's like as things have gotten bigger and people are just so unhinged, I'm like, I just want to leave them alone. But I do love myself.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Well, I've been following you for a long time, and I've really been um touched by how much you honor them and how much they honor you for exactly who you are.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Have they always?

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah, you know, like I came out as gay when I was 15. So that's you know, there's not really a seamless path to doing that. Um I came out like right before gay marriage became legalized, which is kind of a throwback and also maybe a throw forward. You know? You could be losing it. Yeah, yeah. You gotta laugh through the pain. Um, but yeah, uh my parents are are wonderful. Um, you know, we've through the gay stuff, through I mean, now, you know, coming from a Jewish background and a Zionist background, like through the Israel stuff, like they have they followed you in that way?

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Have they learned from you?

SPEAKER_00 26:45

You know, with family, extended family, especially intergenerational conversations can get pretty, you know, over the last couple of years, like have been hard, have been intense, but they've always been willing to listen and um on on a whole matter of things. And look, like as someone who does lefty politics very loudly to a lot of people online, I will admit that like I haven't always made it super easy for them. Like, I I know sometimes I've gotten calls over the last, you know, I've been doing this for eight years, and I sometimes they'll just call me and be like, What is what are you what are you what are you posting about today? What is this? You know, are you Yeah, but you know, it's like they've never once told me to stop. They've never, you know. Awesome. I feel really lucky because, like, for as out there as I am, like my parents are very proud of me.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Which is which is a real blessing. And I'm I know that.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Did you start like online stuff doing makeup?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

I'm so thrilled when people want to talk about makeup because I know my whole thing is like politics and the world, but I love it.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

And then I also want to talk about fashion.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Um like you well, I know. Okay, let's let's start with fashion. So people were hounding you recently for showing up to a premiere not styled, and they were so insane. And I like your style, okay? I like your style. Even we went to lunch, you were in gym clothes, and I was like, look at this fucking cutie. Like so cute coming up in your little gym clothes. I love your fit.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

I went Fuck these people. I went to the premiere of your movie, Babes. Did you was I dressed appropriately?

SPEAKER_02 28:19

You were dressed great. You looked great. Fuck these people. And also, I really appreciate it because I style myself. I can't, I can't spend that money even on hair and makeup. I've learned to do my own makeup somewhat. And I'm also like, I'm into a natural look just because I'm, you know what I mean? I'm like, That's your thing. That's my thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Or whatever, I'll claim it as my thing. And styling myself, like it is so expensive to be a styled, glammed person. Also, it takes time that I don't want to give to that. And that was so rude. And I love your style. I think you look great.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Thank you. I honestly I I take that and I appreciate it. And I also just don't really care. Good. Like I don't really care. And that's where a lot of this comes down to me. Okay, so if if I I want to explain for the listener, because I had this like internet drama, which was so strange to me. Um, because most of the tension that exists in any of my like internet narratives is regarding politics, right? Like that's what I do. But then all of a sudden people were talking about my clothing, which I thought was really strange.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

It is, it is.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

What happened was I um I got a message from someone who I I assume watches my podcast on YouTube where you can like see my clothes. Uh and you know, if you're watching the video version of this right now, like I this is how I dress, like uh, you know, sweater vests and t-shirts.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

And also the sweater vests is the Bob Hope golf tournament.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Yes, this I didn't fucking lit. Never went to a golf tournament this I got at a vintage place. But uh so I got this message from someone who was like, I love you and I love your podcast, and I think it's time to hire a stylist. And I'm willing to offer you my services. And and this was the best part.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Oh, you want me to pay you?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

They said, they said, uh like pay creatives, hire creatives. Like it, it was they fused it with this messaging around like pay creative people, like hire working artists. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't even care how I look.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

And also like as though it's like um, I don't know what political message, and and then making this like binary thing, are you gonna pay creatives or not? It's so silly.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

I okay, so that's silly. I thought it was funny. This is the thing. Like it was it was so campy to me. Like the this specific message.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Okay, copy that.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

And so I screenshotted the message and I shared it on Twitter, and I was just like, which is by the way, wrong move.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Uh and I was just like, oh my God, like this is so silly. I'm speechless. And I thought everyone would be like, haha, like, you know, we poke fun at ourselves. I I can't take myself very seriously as a rule online. Like, you know, you have to poke fun at yourself. Like, especially because it's like you have I have like millions of followers online, but also like I need, I feel the need to constantly remind people that like I'm just like a person.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And like so I'm poking fun at myself, you know, because it's not that serious.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

I'm not like a person on a hill. I'm I'm with you, you know? And anyway, so I share this message, and people like I wake up in the morning, and people have made collages of my outfits from getty images. No, where they're like, but you do look like shit, so you really should get a stylist. And at first I was like, okay, like this is funny, I'm laughing. And then I was like, this has a hundred thousand likes, I'm not really laughing anymore. Like, okay, like we're being a little mean.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

It's mean and inaccurate.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I ended up making like a short video on Instagram where I was basically like, I filmed it shirtless, which I thought was very funny because I was like, you can't judge my clothes now, bitches. Yep. But I made this video and I was like, look, everyone has to chill out. Like, this is crazy. But I also connected it back to like this stylist culture where everyone who shows up to anything is expected to be like beat and cinched and pulled and tucked at every single angle. Like, that is a newer thing. If you look, like people always like, you know, love to look at these images from the early 2000s where you had like Anne Hathaway wearing bell bottom jeans and a t-shirt to an event. That's right. And that was because those were just their clothes.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

But the standards were elevated so much over, you know, the last two or so decades, yeah, where it became a thing where the expectations were raised. Okay, now you have a stylist, now you have a makeup artist. Those things cost for the day rate for each of those people is thousands of dollars. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

And what was interesting was I got so much support on that video from a number of sort of like up-and-coming female entertainers who were like, Thank you so much for talking about this. That's right. Because I am expected to fulfill a certain image and I can't even afford it yet.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

That's right. I I'm my it helped me. It supported me. I was like, yeah, this is this is a sham. This is a scam where you pretend to be a famous person instead of just the human being you are showing up that day. Do you know Think 1994 museum? Do you know that Instagram? They're like really funny and like very throwback, but there was this um opening, like a premiere of the Target on Atlantic Avenue in the early 2000s that like Chloe Savigny came to and Maggie Gyllenhaal, like that kind of like they were trying to make it New York cool. And these women were 22 at the time or whatever the fuck. And they look normal, but it looks insane because we've gotten so normalized to like stylist culture, and it is like a target opening, and they're trying to make it um like Chloe Savigny is at this. Um, and other men.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah, and she probably took like fucking like cigarette ash and like smudged it on her eye, and that was it.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Take us back.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Okay, the nails. Let's talk.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Do you ever give yourself a break?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Yeah, every now and then. So so if people don't know any of these.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

Can you for those who are electing to watch on YouTube, can we see? They're like so fucking cool. Are any broken? None are broken.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

None are broken right now, and they are grown out. I've had these for about three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

Okay, show one more time because they're like really just fabulous. Are you particularly careful when they're on?

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Please don't zoom in on the cuticle growth.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Okay. Just a sort of shall um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

I take a break for a month or two a year because like the the nail beds do get a little bit thin.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Uh but then they'll grow new and they'll be strong again.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Yeah, exactly. I really credit my ability to do nails like this from uh my great-grandmother Pauline.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

You knew your great-grandmother?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

I didn't know her.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

She died before I was born, but I was told by my mother uh that she had very thick natural nails. Oh, yeah. That I also have that uh, you know, kind of runs in the family. So I'm very grateful to her for allowing me to uh be the long nail guy.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

Yeah, incredible. You get them done.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I get them done. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

You don't do them yourself.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yeah, I love it. No, I was actually thinking about this though. It's like uh you do have to work a little bit harder, I think, in the political space to get taken seriously when you're also like you know, just a bit fruity. When you're a bit fruity. Yeah. A. Uh but you know, when you're like a boy who's doing like glam and makeup all the time, uh, you know, like I I get called like it as a pejorative, like I get called like, oh you're just gonna listen to second rate James Charles about politics. And yeah, but it's you know I love them. People like the ASMR stuff.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Um, I do, I do love them. Okay, and let's talk makeup.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

And then like connected to skincare. So you started by doing makeup online, yeah your own makeup online.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Well, so really at the very beginning, I was uh a photographer. I wanted to be a working photographer. Like I had my original plan was to be an artist. And in college, like I would do odd jobs like shooting events, stuff like that, um, parties. I did a lot of like flash party photography. I was using Instagram as like a portfolio. If you scroll all the way back, some of it is still there. Wow. But uh then, you know, early in college, I was very excited by makeup. I think it's always something that I really wanted to do.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

Cover them.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

I would play around with like my mom's makeup a lot when I was like when she was out and I was in high school. But I think living in a city and feeling like I could just like spread my wings and like, you know, I I was like really playing with makeup so much and I loved it. I think makeup is like the artistic love of my life more than any other medium. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

You're so good at it. It's so subtle and yet exact. I love it. Do you do a full beat every day?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

No.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Copy that.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

No. Yeah, eventually I was just like, I really just want to talk about politics all the time. Wow, cool. And maybe I can wear makeup while I do that. So it's kind of, I don't know. I've always like I've always tried to keep I hate the word authentic because it's such like a like stupid, annoying bar market buzzword, but I've always tried to just do this job online in the exact way that feels fulfilling to me. And like, I will tell you in the political space, not so much on the left, because there isn't a lot to like grift off easily by doing this on the left, but like there's so many people, whether it's like mainstream liberals on like news or or of course all over the right wing uh ecosystem, that just like they don't really care about what they put out. A lot of it is acting, uh, you know, a lot of it is performing, a lot of it's especially performing rage on the right, and the cameras turn off and they don't care and they're normal. And like a lot of people, it was so interesting. Like when Charlie Kirk died, there were so many people, so many people, who were like, Yeah, he was a hothead when he was on camera, but if you knew him in person, he was actually a really nice, gentle guy. And the thing is, I believe them, but it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Because the damage is, of course, done when he's on camera performing.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

And so many of them do that. I mean, that's right. I've had people in person be so nice to me. And then I'm like, wait, but why do you act that way on the internet? You know, I I'm not gonna pretend that it's like my humanity isn't compressed on a certain level because it's the internet. I'm not gonna say that everyone who's ever consumed my podcast knows the essence of my human, but I really do try to be honest about who I am when I come to work.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

And, you know, a lot of people don't.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

I just am wondering how it feels to be a young man who knows who he is and has a career that is authentic to him, where you don't have to like siphon off some disgusting part of yourself for profit. Like, you know, you're an aligned person. How does it feel to be in the world in this way as yourself, as well as in the context of men in your generation?

SPEAKER_00 39:06

I feel so unbelievably grateful to get to like be who I am every day. I don't take it lightly at all, but I could like cry, um, which I don't do very much, but like I think all the time about like the person that I was growing up and like so paranoid about people finding out like who I really was. And I don't even just mean like gay in a homosexual sense, I mean just like me. Yes, like I remember a core memory for me was like I don't know if you had this, but in elementary school, like you would line up outside the school with your class, and then you would be let in to the school, uh, to your classroom. And there was this girl named Ava, who was so pretty, and she it was like a cold day, and she had these like white fluffy earmuffs. And I remember telling her, I was like, I wish I could have earmuffs. And one of the parents heard me say that and told my mother, who then when I got home, was like, I heard that you told Ava that you wanted earmuffs, and like there was a whole conversation, and you know, God bless my mother, like she's come a really long way, but like that really meant something. And the earmuffs, and it instilled in me, like there was I remember there was another time where it was like even before that in preschool, like you know, we'd play house, and there was this little like floral fabric, like velcro skirt that sometimes I would put on. And like I remember one of the parents saw me wearing that, and like that was also a thing. And it's like it every every little queer kid, I think, can understand this, but it's like it creates this sense of paranoia in a six-year-old, right? Where your your brain just starts operating differently because you don't want to be found out because you you know and I hold those memories really close because I I I cherish not to use another overused marketing buzzword, but I cherish the journey. The journey. I do. I think every day, like I get to wake up and like have a job that I control, hashtag girlboss, with like, no, but like where I like have my nails and my makeup, and I talk about left-wing politics, and I talk about the queers and the sissies and the pansies and all of us getting to live the lives and the freedom that we deserve. And it is thrilling, it's thrilling to be yourself. I don't take it for granted, even though we all should, we all should, because it should just be something that we get to do, but um, but unfortunately it's not, and I don't think there's virtue in struggle necessarily. Yeah. I don't think I'm a better person because I went through all of that. I think it's just something bad that happened. You see a lot of times people replicating harm that they've been through because like you know, hurt people, hurt people. And it's like, why should these kids have it easier than I did? Like, I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

I don't think my suffering made me a better person. I just think it sucked.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

Yeah, it sucks to see women do that because they were treated bad in a corporate situation and then do it again.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Why is feminist workplace rules? It's like, no, no, you shouldn't have gone through that.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

And so should no one else. So anyway, it just it makes me grateful every single day that I get to do what I do and um perform not perform masculinity, not perform, you know, just be myself.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yeah, it feels really good to take your work in, and I feel um so happy to have you on today and to also continually building our friendship and collaborative relationship.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Thank you. It means so much. Um, you really like I said, just to reiterate, you really have been like a really soft place for me to land um in good and bad moments. Yeah. Uh you are as wonderful and motherly off-screen and off-microphone as you are on, and you're you're you're a joy to just be around and a joyful presence in the world. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

This has been a completely human production because it's been a Star Pix production. Okay. I want to thank all the people who helped me creatively come to this container and build it. That's Anika Carlson. That's David Brooklyn. That's Kelsey Kiley. That's Glennis Mahar. That's Madeline Kim. I want to thank Tova Libowitz, who edits this show so damn good. He's a little smarty, and I just love working with him. I want to thank the people who made this show look and sound so beautiful because that's what I want to bring to you human beauty. And that's Rebecca O'Neill on account. That's Kevin Deming on the lights. Look at how the lights. And that's Lexa Krabs on. Camera. You know what I mean? Sharp but soft. I want to thank Remo Ventura for making the graphics so good. So good, so good. And the opening musical sting, as well as Don Her, the band that I can now say is three people from Smithtown where I grew up. My brother, Elliot Glazer, Jimmy Hines, baby Derek Miro, dog Long Island in a house, Don Her. You know why it's called Don Her? Because that's how you say Donna on Long Island. Don Her. Is that fucking hysterical? The music is so fucking good. It blows my mind. Honestly, I fucking love it. Long Island in the house, 516-631. I'm going nuts, guys, because we recorded two today and I'm going nuts. Can you guess which ones were recorded together? I want to say it again. It's been a StarPix production. And you know what? I'm gonna go there. God bless ya. I love ya. I really love ya. If you like this show and you like the vibe, like and subscribe. It really makes a difference. We're building a community here, and um, I'd love to be in community with you because it's lonely out here. Just kidding. I'm going nuts, guys. Listen, take care of yourself. Love ya. Bye.