Modern Grandparenting - part 2

In this second episode in a series on grandparenting, we talk more specifically about managing the logistics of the grandparent, parent, grandchild relationship. Last time, we talked about the changing role of grandparents, how grandparents used to be figureheads, just there for holidays. Now they’re more involved and engaged. In this episode, we explore the logistics of managing that relationship, both for grandparents who live within driving distance and for grandparents who live far away from their grandchildren. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Couples and Connections, a conversation with clinical psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. We're covering a wide range of mental health topics related to couples, families, singles, and relationships. I'm health journalist Teresa Sullivan Barger. Hello, Cindy. How are you? Hello, Teresa. I'm very well. How are you? I'm good, thanks. In this episode, we're going to do part two of the series on grandparents, grandparenting. So the last time, in the first episode, we talked in general terms about the changing role of grandparents. This time we're going to talk more specifically about managing the logistics of the grandparent, parent, and grandchild relationship. So I guess to start, Cindy, what should grandparents be thinking about when they're interacting with their children and their grandchildren, whether they're in person or they live at a distance?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Remembering that this is a new unit of a family. This is a nuclear family. And that now we may not like it, but as grandparents, we need to step back and make room for this new family to find their own family. And that we are brought in and invited into that space. And that we want to be very mindful and respectful of the fact that this is a new family trying to figure out their own rhythm, their own connections, and that they have a lot to manage in the new family with themselves as well as with everyone around them.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

How can grandparents play a role in their grandchildren's lives if they live at a distance and stay connected, even if they can't physically be with them that much?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

So I guess the way I would say that is understanding what their new rhythm is going to be is one of the first steps so that you can understand when you're going to be with your children and grandchildren, then you can kind of plan for that. And that's a whole topic I know we'll be talking about today. But for the times apart, the way that I would put it is that you want to have a way to stay connected so that when you see them next, you're not like a brand new person that they don't remember. Because when they're really little, if they don't have regular exposure, they're not going to remember you. And then you're going to be like a new person they're just meeting by the next time they see you. So you want to make sure to have a thread of connection, whether you're there or not, and that you're in some way engaged with them around their lives. What that looks like when they're little is a little more challenging because they're so little. And there's still like little bundles of nerve at the beginning. But that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to have them hear your voice. Maybe you sing them a little song on a FaceTime if you're at a distance from them. Then that would be very important to set up a regular FaceTime where you can see the little ones and they can hear your voice. They can't see very far when they're really little, like infants, newborns. But as they get bigger, they'll be able to see you better on the screen and they'll hear your voice and they'll have a memory of hearing your voice. And then the more often you can see them, so that you can actually be an instrumental part of their lives in some way. That's really helpful when it's possible.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

So I don't have grandchildren, so I don't know if this is feasible, but could you read a story to your grandchild through FaceTime?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

I don't see why not. I mean, I think that could be a wonderful thing. And depending on what that adult child is dealing with, it could be really helpful. So it might be that you set up the baby with the grandparent on screen doing like a little story, and maybe the dad travels for work, or maybe it's a single mom. And this allows the mom to be right there, maybe just getting something organized in the same living space, or doing the dishes next to the kiddo that they're with, but that their focus is on grandma, grandma andor granddad, whoever, whichever grandparent or whatever couple is able to be there. And so they're kind of even a support person, even on screen. Obviously, the kid needs to be contained in a way that's safe. You want them in some kind of safe structure. That's obvious, and people would understand that, but that there's some way that they're actually offering something of help. So there could be value, just that kind of value, that if the parent is by themselves, then the child is still being attended to, if only on screen.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

This is maybe like an old-fashioned way of doing things. My mom used to send Valentine's St. Patrick's Day, you know, Halloween cards. So she didn't just send birthday cards, but she sent cards to her grandchildren on various other holidays. Does that do anything to keep the connection going?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I think a lot of us don't think so, but I do think so. I think it may not in a specific way, but in a general way, I think it does. So you reach out to them on Valentine's and you just send them some of those little Valentine's candies that mom and dad hand out carefully so they don't get too much sugar on their way to bed. But that grandma's thinking of you and that there's a little card there from grandma, or maybe there's a$5 bill in there for the child to spend. But that over time, this is a way that they're staying connected to you and they're caring and they're showing their interest. Or, you know, you make a point to do a FaceTime on Halloween so you get to see their cute costume, you know, something like that. So these kind of like little ways of staying connected doesn't have to be a long thing. Just like with the story, we're not reading them, you know, all of Alice in Wonderland. Maybe we're reading them a few pages, and maybe we're reading them pages over time. And when they're really little, maybe they're no, there's no writing even. Maybe it's just a picture book we're holding up to them. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

We've been talking about grandparent from from a distance. What about what are some of the challenges of grandparenting when you're living living nearby? And maybe talk about boundaries on both sides.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

It's a great thing when they're nearby, but again, remembering that this family is new, they're forming their own kind of vibe, rhythm, understanding of how they do things. And they may not want you jumping right into the veins of their life. I'm thinking of the veins of your body. They may not want you noticing all the ways that they do things that you might not agree with. They may not want you being there all the time, even. Now, it can be a really lovely thing with newborns or young children that the first babysitters are grandparents, they're family members, and that you don't have to worry about exposing your child to a stranger. So that can be really positive. But you want to make sure that the way you're engaging with your grandchildren, again, supports them inviting you in rather than them feeling like you're just imposing yourself and you have an expectation that you should be in all the time. That's the difference. You want to feel welcomed and wanted and not like you're imposing upon them and that they're obligated to have you. You don't want that kind of relationship. And you want to make sure that you're talking with them in a way that makes it clear that you want to see them as much as they want you to, and that you want to hear from them what works best.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

In your practice, what are some of the mistakes that you've heard? Maybe that clients have complained to you about their interfering or overpowering, you know, grandparents, their parents who are the, or they've complained that their parents, the grandparents, are too standoffish and not helping at all or not engaged at all. What are some of the complaints that you hear?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Well, you just named a few, like, oh God, here they are again, and we have to host them, and we're all holding, holding our breaths. And this happens when you're coming to visit, and this also happens when you live nearby, and each has its own challenges. If you're coming to visit, then you're literally taking up their vacation time, potentially, that they have to use on people that are out of town. If you're nearby, you might be taking up their little bit of weekend time that they have to be with their own family, with their new child and themselves. So, how can you be a benefit and not a burden is the challenge. And so the things I hear are you just named a couple. Number one, they don't seem to want us. They're kind of letting us know, don't call us, we'll call you. Or, wow, they don't seem to be very available. They seem to be carrying on with their own lives. Now, I want to make a comment as a caveat to this. Some of this has to do with what parents have experienced with their children when they were growing up. So the first separation from parents, well, is as a young child, a big major one again happens as adolescence. So if in adolescence the child is like, that's okay, see you later, and they're kind of off doing their thing, the parent may have learned back then, I guess I'll wait to be invited. And so they may not be as enthusiastic or expressive or engaged now that they're a parent. And everybody may need to update how they understand things. So just because, as a teenager, you didn't want your parents around because you were developing your own separate self doesn't mean that you feel the same way now when you have children. So sometimes these cram parents are referred to almost as a bit, you know, aloof or, you know, you know, distant or uninterested. And it may just be that they're protecting themselves from being rejected. So there's a lot of misunderstanding and a need for updating what the relationship is now. Like maybe you were like that as a teenager, but maybe as a as a parent, you'd love to have us show more interest or be initiating some of the FaceTimes.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

You're listening to Couples in Connections with clinical psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. I'm Teresa Sullivan Barger. One of the things that you just said makes me think that we it sounds like a conversation would be really helpful here. Absolutely. So can we talk? We talk we've talked about having difficult conversations. Can you please it okay? We're in a situation where the grandparents want to be helpful. They don't want to be too much, they don't want to be too little. And maybe the the parents want their grand their parents, the grandparents involved, but they don't want them too involved. So, how do you have that conversation? Do you have it before the baby's born, when they're pregnant with the first grandchild? How does this work?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Early and often would be my short answer. That this is an evolving, changing, new development, a new level of relationship. Everybody's new to it. And since everybody's new to it, people don't understand. And when I say that, I can't say that loudly enough. The basis of conflict is misunderstanding in the most basic way. Like misunderstanding the grandparent is being aloof when maybe they're just protecting their heart because they remember how they felt when their kid didn't want to be with them. That same kid didn't want to be with them when they were a teenager. And so they may need an update. I know when I was a teenager, I didn't want you around, but now I'm a parent, and oh boy, do I want you around. So some of it means you may need to update even how you communicate, because some of the old news in that parenting relationship may be coloring the relationship now that these people are parents themselves without awareness of anyone. So you may need to just say, I know I was like that then, but I'm not like that now.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

What are some of the most common mistakes that grandparents make that hurt their relationship with their adult children and or with their grandchildren? Making assumptions.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Okay. Making assumptions in both directions. And like thinking about what they said when we last made a plan, and that it didn't sound like they really wanted us to be reaching out to them. So they just stopped reaching out. Or, oh, I'm sure they want us to come right over. When no, that's not true. Those are the kinds of mistakes I would say. Okay. And we'll be talking next time about some of the more specific mistakes about communicating with children and grandchildren. And that's somewhat of a historical thing that those parents did with their kids. So they assume they should do it with their grandkids.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Okay. Do you find what when you hear complaints from the parents, are the complaints more often that the parent, their their parents, the grandparents, are interfering too much? Or are the complaints more that they're too distant and not helping enough?

SPEAKER_01 13:16

Where do you think I think more often I hear it's too much, but it's not just too much. It's too much of the wrong thing. That the grandparents are not attuned enough to them. Ah. And these same people might be very easily injured. I mean the grandparents. Okay. So when the parents try to set boundaries, there's that word again, boundaries, about what they need, it's experienced by the grandparent as meaning they're not wanted and they're taking it personally. Please don't take it personally when your children are just trying to set their own trajectory for their own life. Please know that even if they're really blunt or, you know, they say things in a way that you don't like, that the intention probably they mean the very best. I just think that people generally don't mean harm when they're asking for their needs to be met, but they're not always that skillful when it comes to taking care of themselves and asserting their needs.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Well, I would imagine if you're a parent of a baby or a lot or have multiple small children, you're exhausted. So I would imagine you're not as diplomatic because you're sleep deprived.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Well, there's that, but then also as a person, there's varying levels of emotional intelligence and skillfulness about asserting yourself. And that has everything to do with the way you were raised, the way that people talked in your background.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Can you talk a little bit more about boundaries? Okay, let's say you're the parents, the parents of the child, the you know, the young children, not the you're not the grandparents. How do you set boundaries so that your family unit is respected, but you don't you don't alienate the grandparents?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

That's a great question, Teresa. I think the way that I would say it is there's a stepwise approach. Number one, the parents need to talk, look at their immediate schedule. If they're a local parent, maybe for the next week or two. If you're a long distance parent, maybe you're looking at a six-month period of time and looking at what's possible within that six months, depending on where the parents and grandparents live. Do they live in the same country? Do they live nearby? Is it driving distance or flying distance? These things all affect the whole picture. Cost, availability, all of those kind of things. So the parents get together and talk, then the parents make a plan, they can have one person share that plan and request, or they can both do it together, but that at least the the child of the parents that are wanting to come, that at least one person represents the couple. And that this representation is about here's what would work well for us. And it would be really nice if that couple doesn't offer you one time that works perfectly for them with no regard to the grandparents. So, hey, we get that you're busy too. Here's what we know would work really well for us. If this doesn't work, let us know what else would work for you. But that they give them a couple of options, if possible, to make it more likely that it could be worked out. Then they share what they're wanting. And then the couple receiving thanks them for the invitation. This may sound very formal, but I think at the beginning of any new thing, we need to be a little bit more deliberate. And it sounds formal, I would just call it structured, that you have a structured conversation about it. So then the couple says, you know, we're gonna talk also and look at our schedules, and we're gonna come back to you within a few days. And then they do come back and they say, We could do this, this, or this. Could any of these work? Now it may be that the couple, the parents are over here and the grandparents are over here in different locations with what they're each thinking. So, with some frequency, usually somebody has to be willing to say, no worries, we'll do it your way. You know, and you don't even have to say it that way because that could be experienced as provocative. You don't even have to say, well, none of your times work, but we'll make one of them work because that sounds like you're irritated. Right. You just want to say, oh, you know, we think we could make this work. Now that said, if each and every time you try to make a plan, you have to flex their way and turn your lives upside down to make it work. At some point, you may need to say, you know, can we talk a little bit more? Because this is really hard for us, and begin introducing the idea of how they can also negotiate and be regarding of the grandparents. This is how some of the worst challenges happen within families. When one person feels like they're always doing all the flexing and shifting and accommodating and doing backward flips and feeling like the other person, you know, makes this much room. And if you don't fit into their little channel, then they say no. So you don't want to be in that scenario. But at the beginning, I would say if grandparents can just be open and available and very supportive, they have a brand new family, they have a brand new baby, give them lots of room. Okay. As the kid gets older, then you may need to bring it in a little and say, you know, that doesn't actually work well for us. Can we offer you a few more times that you could look at? So negotiating on both sides is a really important part of everybody feeling loved and respected.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I want to share with you an observation. When my children were growing up, my daughter's best friend, her grandparents came to every single sporting event and they lived the next town over and they were always there. Now, I don't know like how much whether they had Sunday dinner together every week. I really don't know all the details, but those grandparents were there their whole lives at their sporting events. So is that another way for parent grandparents to be connected if they are lucky enough to be close, to just be physically present at school concerts and you know, soccer games or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Absolutely. And this is like a no big deal thing. The kids having the violin recital or the soccer match or performing in the play, and they get to look out in the audience and see some enthusiastic grandparents cheering them on. And then you look out there and you always see the grandparents cheering you on. I mean, what a nice message to these children.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

I I'll tell you, they I was like, Oh, those they're great grandparents. I've got I thought when I'm a grandparent, I want to be that kind of grandparent. So well, the kind of grandparents that you show up as much as you can. Okay. We've kind of talked about this already, but is there any other advice you can offer? Like I'm thinking if you're a grandparent and you're still working, and you but you might still your your adult child or your adult daughter-in-law or son-in-law needs you to help with child care. How do you have a conversation where you can discuss this, but you still, you know, they respect that you're still working? Is that a common problem where you you said last time that people are looking for child care from grandparents, but also people are still working?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Well, yes. And so I think that you just have to keep that at the front end of the conversation where the grandparents make a point to say, first of all, thank you. What a thrill that you want us. So you want to absolutely be enthusiastic in the underscoring of the fact that they're seeking your involvement. And then you want to say, you know, you know, I work on these days. And so, however, that said, I could I can see in my schedule that I could do this, you know, and give them some options so they know what to expect and hope for, and that they know that you're trying your best to think about what they're asking for and to be as responsive as you can be. That said, there are emergencies that come up and you might not have had any plan, but because it's a really important situation, then you're just gonna stop what you're doing and you're gonna go to them. And so that really depends on what the issue is. So if it's just a wish for a little extra assistance, that's one thing. But if it's a situation where the parent's gonna be alone, the other parent's gonna be out of town, you have two children under the age of five, I wouldn't call that an emergency, but I might call it a pretty big deal that you want to really get some feel supported. So you have to figure out what to prioritize and where to set the line, the boundary line of what you can and can't do accordingly. You want to make sure you're sending the right message to them, that you really are right there with them and that you absolutely have their back. You also don't want to put your own job in jeopardy.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

I know somebody who, when there's a snow day and the parents both still have to work. One of the grandparents might be there to take care of the child.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Which is wonderful when you're all in town. Or even do that. Within driving lit distance. Well, right. And if you can be within driving distance of your grandchildren, wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

All right. I think next time we're going to talk about the actual details of engagement with grandparents and parents. And the goal will be how to be the ideal grandparent so that the adult children and the grandchildren want to see that grandparent. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

That's the goal. That's the big goal that we're looking toward. How to be someone appealing. People are enthusiastic about you. They want to see you. It's a positive in their lives.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

You've been listening to Couples and Connections Conversations with Clinical Psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. I'm health journalist Teresa Sullivan Barger. For more information, visit CynthiaPost PhD.com. That's Cynthiapostph.com. Listen for new episodes on Fridays, and please tell your friends about couples and connections.