What Does It Mean To Be Connected?

In this episode, Dr. Cynthia Post talks about what it means to be connected to others, including how individuals’ needs for connectedness differ. She explains the difference between loneliness and feeling disconnected. She addresses how to build and maintain meaningful connections, even when our lives are very busy. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Couples and Connections, a conversation with clinical psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. We are covering a wide range of mental health topics relating to couples, families, singles, and relationships. I'm health journalist Teresa Sullivan Barger. Hello, Cindy. How are you? I'm very well, Teresa. How are you? I'm good. I think it's interesting that today we're we're talking about what it means to be connected and connections since you and I are friends and can and we're connected.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Absolutely. No, it's interesting and interesting also to reflect on reflect on how that connection was built. A lot of people I talk to are really confused about how to build connections. So I think that having examples of how connections are built is very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Ah. Well, why don't we start with the question? Then maybe we can talk about how we became friends, because I think this has happened a couple of times in my life where somebody I met through work became someone I felt like a friendship with. Yes. So, but let's start with what does it mean to be connected? Let's define what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

So it means different things to different people, and it means different things at different times in your life. So maybe when you're 10 years old and your BFF does whatever they do that you don't like, then all of a sudden you don't want to be their friend anymore. BFF meaning very, very best friend, you know, and then what you want when you're 20, what you want when you're 30, where people are, are they connected to you in terms of do they have similarities to you? Are they experiencing similar things? You have kind of a frame of reference for things that you share. That's part of being connected, feeling understood, deeply understood. So I would say, like, what is the you know, the gold standard for connection? Feeling like you can be totally yourself authentic, that you feel accepted, you feel supported, you feel comfortable, you can be yourself. I would say that's the gold standard. And then I would say, under that though, you can have lots of different levels of connection that range from just someone to take a walk in the park with to someone that you kind of want to share so much more of who you are with.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Yeah, and and I'm thinking we, you and I became friends because we started, we met each other through a work connect commitment and we discovered we had a lot in common. And exactly. And that's happened with me with some other people too, where initially I just liked working with them, and then I got to know them, and I'm like, I would I want to be friends with this person. I, you know, I really like this person. And it's that's a nice thing when even when you're not necessarily working together professionally anymore, you can still be friends.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Oh, definitely. And also, how do you move from being professional colleagues to being friends if you like someone? You know, that's also an interesting thing to consider. What would you how would you make that happen?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

It's different when it's like in a work setting. Like you, it's really easy to make work friends when you're going to an office together and you have lunch together. You and I became friends before you even met in person.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Oh, that's right. No, that's right. Working on a project together, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yeah. I gotta ask, what is the difference between people who describe feeling lonely and people who versus not feeling connected? Are loneliness and not feeling connected the same thing or are they different?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

See, I think of them as very different. I mean, they can be similar. I think not feeling connected can be a subgroup of loneliness. That can be a piece of the loneliness that you're one of the things that you're describing that makes you feel lonely is that you don't feel connected. But I think there are people who would say, Yeah, you know, I don't feel particularly connected, but I don't feel particularly lonely either. So I don't think the fact of not being connected means you're lonely, but I think some people would say that when they're lonely, the lack of connection is part of that experience.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Okay. This kind of makes me think what you just said of some people might not feel like they're not connected. So does everybody have a different definition for their definition of connectedness? Because is one person they need 20 different people in their life to feel connected, and another person only needs five, two or three? Is that oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

And there are a lot of different topics that are overlapping here. Like here's one people that are extroverted, they love people, they want to be around people all the time. And people who are introverted are like, I'm happy with two or three, I don't need all this contact. So it doesn't mean they don't feel connected, but how much connection they need and what kind of connection they need may be very different. They may need more time to themselves.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

But I believe that everybody needs a community of some kind. And I think even the people that claim that they want to be more solitary, they do need to feel connected somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Right. So if you're an introvert, you you get your energy by being alone, and if you're an extrovert, you get your energy by being around other people. But exactly, but both whether you're an introvert or an extrovert, you still need human contact. Exactly. Okay, so if somebody is feeling like they would like more connection, they you know, here's an example. My son was working remotely at a job. He was in the East Coast and his job was in California. So not only was he working remotely, but he was working California hours. So he couldn't even take his dog for a walk when most people were out walking their dogs. So he just did not, he did not feel like he had a lot of connections in the community. So he started going to a coffee shop every Saturday. I love it. And that would just that was something that he did until he was able to get a job in person. Uh-huh. Well, I guess I'm wondering how do you know that you need connection and where do you take the first step?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

So you know you need connection because you feel something's amiss. You maybe you just feel super isolated. Maybe you feel like nobody knows your name. There used to be an old, old uh show on television called Cheers, where everybody would go to the bar and they would uh all know each other, know what they've been dealing with all week. And everybody knew everybody's name. It's kind of like what small towns are about. They know they all know you. So the idea that you that you don't feel like anybody knows much about you and that that's a bad feeling, that's the how you know you need to do something. And then the second part of the question, how do you go about building it? Well, there are a few important pieces here. One, if people are reaching out to you, please say yes. Don't say no if you possibly can. And if you can't say yes for whatever reason, the timing doesn't work, whatever else is going on in your life, then please remember that they reached out to you and reach back out to them. So I think of connection and building connection kind of like I think of playing tennis. Somebody lobs a ball over you, better lob it back, or don't expect them to keep on coming your way and contacting you. They're not going to keep on reaching out to you if you're unresponsive.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

So, what if you feel you're feeling a little down, you're feeling a little, maybe you are feeling a little lonely and maybe not feeling great about yourself. Isn't it hard for people to put themselves out there and make a connection?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

It is hard, especially if you're starting to look for connection when you're feeling really bad. I mean, these are things I hope people are working on all the time. Like if you've been an isolated person your whole life and now you're in your 60s or 70s and you're trying to build a community, that's really hard. I hope along the way you've been building it, but it's not too late to start building it now if you haven't. But it's something to be systematic about and be looking around and noticing people in your environment that you might want to reach out to. Maybe there's somebody that, you know, you walk by them on the on the way to work every morning and they seem so friendly, and that you invite them sometime to have a coffee with you, or you invite them to take a walk with you, or something like that. So you making use of the people that you already have some familiarity with can be a nice way.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

What do you hear from your younger clients? Um, like the teenagers, 20 somethings, who are so much on their phones, and they've sort of grown up texting and not have not having a lot of face-to-face contact.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

You know, that's why they call it the anxious generation. In fact, there's a book on the New York Times bestseller list that's getting a lot of uh attention because the the phone is a real problem. And one of the reasons it's a problem is it replaces in some ways human connection and the opportunity to practice skills. There are a lot of skills that go along with being connected. Like, are you listening to the person that's talking to you? Do you notice their facial expressions? Do you do you notice when they're looking away and they don't seem so interested? Are you the only one doing the talking? If you're the only one doing the talking, that's not a conversation. So if you're having trouble making connections, those are some of the things to consider when you're talking to people, being aware of them.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

So if someone is listening and they're not comfortable, they don't know where to begin, they don't know how to do this. They're you they're much more comfortable texting, they're not so comfortable talking. Who do they practice with?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Someone in their midst that they know. Hopefully, they have a couple people that they know in their midst who they can practice with. It's like could it be someone like your family, the people you know? Maybe your family, maybe your family, maybe your friend, the the friend that you have. And you don't even have to tell them that you're practicing if you don't feel comfortable with that. You could just start practicing. You could just start trying to ask a bit more about them. Notice what makes the conversation get a bit richer. Notice what makes the conversation kind of dwindle. How to how is how does it go? And what do you do to contribute to it?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

You're listening to Couples in Connections with clinical psychologist, Dr. Cynthia Post. I'm Teresa Sullivan Barger. We were talking about connectedness and building connections over time. Well, you were you were saying about how to start connections. So now then I'm asking, like, sort of the next step is how do you build connections over time? How do you go from not having much to having more connections and having long-term connections?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Well, so I mean, it takes time. That's an important thing to remember. Like one of my oldest, dearest friends, I noticed that we were taking the same dance class. And we would always leave the dance class together, and we would always walk down the street, the same street. Turned out we lived a few houses down from each other. And she's still one of my dearest friends, one of my oldest friends. And um it was a matter of we were doing something we both enjoyed. We were both new to town, we would chat on the way home, and then one of us, I can't remember who, said, Do you want to have a coffee sometime? And then we went and had a coffee, and then we got in the habit that after class we would go and have a coffee, and then you know, we brought our partners into it, and the four of us got together. And uh now we're two two married women with children, and uh we still live down the street from each other, so it it's a matter of awareness. Oh, this is somebody walking down the street, the same street. Oh, I kind of like talking to this person. How can I promote more of this?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

So so it could be someone you meet when you're you're out for a walk or you're out taking your dog for a walk, or absolutely, or even you run. I mean, like I had gym buddies. I mean, there were certain women who they worked out at the same time, and you know, they were they were my we didn't get together outside of work, I mean, outside of the gym that much, but it it was great to see them every day when we were all working out or getting dressed after after our workouts. And that was like for me, that was even though we did do some things outside of that, we did socialize outside of that, but it was just nice every day as I was working from home, and it was nice for me to have those women to chat with and hear about their lives.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Definitely, and I think you bring up a good point, which is some connections remain within a certain sphere. So just because that you only see them primarily in the gym doesn't mean that that's not a really important thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, and then and then when COVID came and we st we all stopped going, I was I really miss them. And it's harder to keep those connections going since we're not on the same schedules anymore. Absolutely. What if you want to be connected to people, but you have a job and you have a home and you have family to take care of? You're you know, you're in the sandwich generation, you're maybe taking care of kids or older parents, and you just it's you just find it hard. Is there any advice you have for how people can still make carve out time for connections, even when they're busy?

SPEAKER_01 13:23

The word that comes to my mind is intentional. Live an intentional life. Ask yourself, what do I want? How do I want my days to go? What makes me happy? And the more you have to, the more you have to do, the more you should be deliberate about making sure you make room for things that and people that you really want. So if you're spending a lot of your time dealing with aging parents or something like this, that you say, gee, I haven't seen any friends in a week. I'm gonna call up this person and see if they want to meet me to have a coffee or go for a walk. And you hear me using these examples, I think in-person time is helpful. I also think time on the phone can be helpful though, too. But to make sure that you say, gee, I have I have no idea what's going on with this person. Let me let me jump in here and reach out in this direction.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

So you just reminded me of something from a long time ago. When my children were very, very small, and you know, you get up early, you get them off to school, and or you're taking care of little children and working. I had a friend, we she and I got up really early in the morning and went for a walk before our days started. And that was that was it might have been the only chance I had to talk to any adults outside of my spouse and maybe work-related colleagues. And that was just a chance to get a little fresh air and exercise, but also talk to another, talk to another mom and be able to bounce ideas off of her. Because you know, when you're a mom, you always have questions. Oh, sure. And it's nice to have someone to talk to. And it was like you said, it was you the reason I thought of it, you said schedule it, make it deliberate. And even though I was super busy, I was like, I need to get to bed at a reasonable hour so I can get up at the crack of dawn and meet my friend for a walk.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Yeah, and you knew that was important to you, so you made that happen. And then the person that you're engaging with senses that it's important to you and that you see that you're making that happen.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah, it was pretty, it was important to both of us. Right, exactly. And in the and in the winter, we were really glad we had each other because sometimes it's hard to get out in the dark in the in the cold and go for a walk. Oh my goodness, yes. Is it okay to reach out and ask for help or support when you are going through a really hard time and you're feeling like you're drowning in caregiving or you're drowning in, you know, a work situation that you're like working a million hours? It's I don't know, it feels weird to say, hey, I'm I mean, it my instinct is to just keep plugging and doing what I need to do and not bother anybody.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Well, we live in a very insular kind of culture where everybody is kind of hyper-independent. And it's not a culture where we think that we should and do actually need others, but everybody needs others. And so if you're really feeling like you just need a chance to reach out and connect, it would be great if you have already been working on building those connections so that when that time comes, you can just say, Boy, it would be great to talk to you. But you've already got that person in your life. They're not a new person, they're already in your life. You don't want to be trying to build a community when you're really having a tough time. That's a much harder thing to do. So I'm hoping that for everybody, this notion that everybody needs a community and that it's a project you should always be working on. And don't let it falter. Don't let months and months go by and be out of touch with people. It's just a bad idea. It doesn't, it doesn't help your overall mood or well-being. And they say that people who have community, certainly people who have partners, but even if you're single, if you have a community, people live longer that way. That's how important it is.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Are there any rules of engagement? Like it is, are there do's and don'ts about how to be connected without taking advantage of your friends?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Or well, I think you just launched us on the answer. One is you don't want to feel like you're a taker, that you're doing all the talking, and that when you get off the phone or out of having just been with someone, that you don't have any idea how they are because you did all the talking. So I think I said a few minutes ago, if you're doing all the talking, that's not a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

So that's one thing. Then don't put others in the position where they're continuing to reach out to you and you're saying no a lot. My rule of thumb is if you're if somebody reaches out to you and you can't see them, then you better make a note of it and figure out what are you gonna offer next. So it shouldn't be that it's a one-way street ever. And then when you are talking to them and they're sharing something, are you aware of them? Are you listening? Are you tuned in? Or are you kind of going through the motions? Well, what is the quality of the connection? Are you aware of that? I think a lot of people aren't aware of that, and they're also not aware of like what's going well, what's not going well in the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

See, I feel like when I'm in the thick of caregiving and you know, being overwhelmed, I feel that I don't want to burn be a burden to my friends. And I'm thinking maybe, maybe it's okay to just like I do remember texting and saying, I'm I'm sorry I haven't been in touch. I'm just overwhelmed right now. But that I feel like if you do that too much, the friendship could, the connection can weaken.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Well, the hope is that over time there's kind of like a set of norms, like that it's understood. Oh, Teresa's going through something. So your friends just kind of lean in a little more and say, How are you? Or maybe, you know, you you walk outside and you notice, oh my goodness, there's some, you know, a meal has been prepared because my dear friends know that I'm struggling and they want to help me, you know, but that there's enough of a culture of support that you don't have to do all the asking. But you probably do need to let people know a little bit if you're struggling. I mean, it probably would be helpful for them to know. But if if we're looking at this as a long plan, then these are people who hopefully have known you for years. They're not just getting to know you now. So they know, oh gosh, Teresa seems a little distant. I wonder if she's doing okay. Oh, maybe I'll give her a call. Oh, well, it turns out when Teresa is distant, it's because she's got a lot going on. And so, oh, I oh, now I learned what's going on. Oh, her mom is taking a turn for the worse. Oh, wow, I'm so glad I reached out. I think I'll make sure to reach out again. And then as people know you better, they know what feels supportive and what doesn't. Now, there could be exchanges with a person where you're talking to them or you see them and you sense that they need to go or they're done talking or whatever. Being aware of other people is a very important part. Attunement. Read the room, look at the other people, notice this is one of the skills, the do's and don'ts. So you don't want to keep on talking or keep on engaging or staying there with that person when clearly they're ready to go. Like, oh, you know what? I I think you said a few minutes ago that you needed to go, didn't you? That's right. You know what? Let's let's call it a day, and I look forward to talking. Don't make them have to tell you again. Got it. Any other do's and don'ts? You don't want people to feel that you're only reaching out to them when, for instance, your partner's not available. You want them to feel that you're steady with your reaching out and you value them, whether your partner is at home or not, that you make room for your life for your friends.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

Well, thank you. That was helpful. There's a lot to think about. Um, you've been listening to Couples and Connections, Conversations with Clinical Psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. I'm health journalist Teresa Sullivan Barker. For more information, visit CynthiaPost PhD.com. That's CynthiaPostph.com. Listen for new episodes on Fridays, and please tell your friends and family about couples and connections.