Shyness

Some people confuse shyness with introversion, but they’re not the same thing. In this episode, licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post explains the difference. While introverts recharge by being alone, shy people may wish they were more comfortable in large groups and around people they don’t know. Dr. Post offers insights to help all of us be more aware and less judgmental when interacting with people who are shy.

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

There's kind of degrees of shyness. Some people are shy across the board, even with people they know well. Other people just tend to be shy around people they don't know as well. They're going to a friend's party and they knew a few of the people there, that they just feel a little uncomfortable making conversation, but they can kind of get into the rhythm before the end of the evening. As opposed to someone who just, no matter who they're talking to, they just feel a little bit uneasy socially and they worry that people won't think well of them when they perceive their unease. Welcome to Couples and Connections, a conversation with me, Dr. Cynthia Post, a licensed clinical psychologist. And me, Teresa Sullivan Barger, a health journalist. We cover all things relationships, conflict, loss, success, betrayal, change, you name it, we'll dive into it.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So let's dive in. Today we're talking about shyness. And I asked Cindy when she suggested this topic, isn't shyness introversion? Isn't that just a personality trait? And so Cindy is going to explain why we're talking about shyness and that there is a difference between shyness and introversion.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

So what we need to understand is that shyness is a condition. Shyness is a problem. Shyness is something that people don't want. They feel uncomfortable in their own skin and they fear the social consequences of the fact that they are uncomfortable engaging with other people. And so they worry about the judgment of others. That is what we mean when we talk about shyness. And how about introversion or being introversion is a personality trait that has to do with comfort with being alone. And people that are introverted as a way of being recharge their batteries by going off on their own and having solitude to kind of think on their own and reflect on things as a way to get energy, as opposed to extroverts that get energy by being around others and recharging their batteries by being around other people. It doesn't mean that introverts don't enjoy the company of others. They might enjoy the company of others very much and still need to go away and recharge their batteries. So they're distinctly different issues. One is more of a condition, it's a problem, the other is just a way of being in the world.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

So you said that you're hearing from patients who are shy who don't want to be shy. So what do you do to help people who want to change their shyness?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

The first thing that I want to help people understand is that the fact that they're shy is not something that's just got to be this way and that it will never change. I always recommend to people that want to change something that they lean into the problem, not lean out. So what I mean by this is, you know what? Just because you're uncomfortable doesn't mean you shouldn't work on this issue. So just because you're not always so comfortable socially doesn't mean that you shouldn't go into social environments. And there's kind of degrees of shyness. Some people are shy across the board, even with people they know well. Other people just tend to be shy around people they don't know as well. They're going to a friend's party and they knew few of the people there, that they just feel a little uncomfortable making conversation, but they can kind of get into the rhythm before the end of the evening, as opposed to someone who just, no matter who they're talking to, they just feel a little bit uneasy socially and they worry that people won't think well of them when they perceive their unease.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So I'm a total extrovert, but I know if I go to a conference or something and I don't know anybody, even I feel a little bit awkward and not sure. So I try to find somebody who I can start a conversation with and maybe ask a question. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

And so you just leave yourself open. You allow yourself to engage people in conversation. And I like the way you put that because even you, as an extrovert, can find yourself struggling at times with moments of shyness. So shyness is across a continuum again. It's not, you know, some people live in that world a lot. Other people, even extroverts such as yourself, can have moments of shyness or periods of time of shyness, depending on what's going on. If you're at a conference for five days and you know no one there, then you might have a five-day period where you're not your typical extroverted self. And then you have to kind of lean into that and allow yourself to say, you know what, I don't have to be perfectly comfortable, but I'm not going to just shy away from engagement because I'm not comfortable. I'm going to say, I'm going to feel uncomfortable and engage with people anyway. And then while you're engaging, I would encourage those shy people to notice what goes well and what doesn't. There are going to be some skills that work well with people. You never go wrong by expressing interest in others. Talking isn't a bad idea either. Just chatting, being curious, being interested, not being just quiet and sitting back and waiting to be asked is what I'm encouraging people not to do. I'm encouraging them to lean in. I'm encouraging them to ask questions, and I'm encouraging them to make sure to speak instead of waiting to be spoken to.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

I was going to share a story about my husband and me. We were in the English majors in college together, and we would go to breakfast together because we had eight o'clock class and we lived next door to each other. And he was a very shy person and didn't talk. And I felt very uncomfortable with having breakfast with someone who wasn't talking. And I would just keep trying to keep the conversation going. And I didn't realize that it was shyness that was keeping him from talking. And also that he wasn't a morning person like I was. And it, if it weren't for a professor who told me that there's more going on in his head than I than it appeared, I never would have really started dating him. I, you know, I thought he was a nice guy, but he didn't seem like he had a lot going on until my professor said, yeah. So I feel like I learned not to judge a book by its cover as a result of that experience.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Yes, I think that's a very, very good point. People who are not shy and they are comfortable on their skin. So I just said the same thing twice, but I said it twice on purpose to sort of emphasize the point. These people who struggle with shyness might have a tremendous amount to offer. And just because they're shy and they might take a minute to get going in the conversation doesn't mean they shouldn't be given a chance. And you shouldn't assume that they have nothing to offer just because they're on the quiet side.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

This kind of brings me to this question: what can X extroverts do to make people who are shy more comfortable? And also what shouldn't they do? Because I'm always afraid that I'm so exuberant that I might make people uncomfortable. Can you sort of give some tips for how we make shy people feel comfortable and how we what we should avoid doing to make the shy people feel uncomfortable or feel whatever?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

So, first I just want to address what I think is a little bit of a misconception, which is that it's other people's responsibility to make shy people feel comfortable. It isn't. So it's their responsibility to figure out find their way socially. And as a person they're trying to find their way with, if you wanted to be kind and open-minded and notice that they seem to be struggling a little bit, that would be a kindness that might allow them to relax a bit more. It's their job to figure out how to do that, how to get to feel a little more comfortable, how to go ahead and reach out and try to connect the best that they can, and to not assume that just because they're not comfortable, they shouldn't engage. So, as a participant in a conversation with a shy person, the way I would put it is your job is just to simply make room for the idea that this person doesn't seem to be engaging the way you are, but that you're gonna make room to see what happens and see how this conversation might unfold. And it might not unfold the way you might typically think you're gonna engage with people, but that perhaps there's more than one way to engage with others, and that you're not gonna have to have it be one way for that way of talking to be okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Can you share what you think shy people wish that non-shy people knew so that they would be more say sensitive and understanding?

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yes, I think that shy people wish that just because they may not have such a smooth presentation, that they have a lot to say, they can be really smart, they can be very caring, they can be great friends, they can be great partners, and that you shouldn't overlook them. Just because they may be slow to start in the conversation doesn't mean that you should just forget about them at the get-go just because initially you don't see much there. Just take a minute, notice, and just let yourself be with them and maybe just be a little patient.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

Is there anything else that you want to say to sort of bring all this together that you that I didn't ask?

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Well, I do want to remind people that introversion and shyness are not the same. And so just because somebody is quiet doesn't mean they're shy. And they may be the kind of person that's very comfortable in their own skin. So you shouldn't assume shyness just because they're quiet. And also that in general, however we are, we sort of think everybody else should be the same way. Most people are often people are that way, I would say. And that if we just remember there are a lot of different kinds of people in the world, and that we can make room to connect with lots of different people and learn so much about how what it means to be human.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

I just thought of one other question. I'm hearing, I'm reading a lot about social anxiety. I read something recently that you know, a considerable number of people take medication for social anxiety. Is social anxiety a type of shyness? Or what? How does that fall into the shyness spectrum?

SPEAKER_01 10:49

I would say that it goes with shyness. I would say that when you know you're not comfortable and then you know you're gonna be engaging, that you can have anxiety about engaging because you just don't feel that skillful. So I just want to remind people that it isn't a given that just because you're feeling this way right now, that you'll always feel exactly the same way. You know, maybe you're never going to be a social butterfly, but you might get to a point where you feel a whole lot more comfortable engaging with others over time.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

So it sounds like you earlier you said something like you have you suggest people lean into the thing that makes them feel uncomfortable, and that maybe they they the more they do it, the more easy it becomes. I think that that's true.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I think repetition of doing hard things is exactly the way we learn. And I think that most change happens on a hill, not a plateau. That we're working hard at something when we're working on growing and changing.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah, you know, the first time I had to present at a conference, I was really nervous. Like I said, I'm an extrovert, but I hadn't done that before. And, you know, I prepared and prepared and prepared, and I did it. And, you know, subsequently I've done a lot more public speaking, and the more I've done it, the more comfortable I get. And I'm still nervous, especially right before I start. But then once I start, I'm usually fine. Yeah, I think that's exactly what I'm talking about, that it definitely can get better.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

When we think about shyness, shyness and introversion are not the same. Shyness is about someone who has a condition of unease, and that this is related very much to being socially uncomfortable. Introversion is a personality trait that has to do with going away to recharge your batteries and that you might be a very comfortable person socially, but that you just go away to recharge your batteries. These two can be confused. So when you're engaging with someone, just because they don't seem quite as extroverted or gregarious as you, don't assume that they are, in fact, shy or introverted. Just make room to encounter them, just make room to be patient and not need the conversation to go one way. Just see what's going to happen here and see what how things develop over time.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

You've been listening to Couples and Connections conversations with clinical psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. I'm health journalist Teresa Sullivan Barger. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.