The Couple Connection

To establish and maintain a strong bond, Dr. Cynthia Post, licensed clinical psychologist, explains the importance of the couple connection. Creating and nurturing that bond daily helps couples stay connected. When life gets challenging, couples can draw on that bond for strength. Cindy explains what that couple connection looks like and how to prioritize it through stressful days, health challenges, the demands of children, older parents, pets, and whatever else comes your way.

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

If we can't talk about difficult things, we can't be that close. And so being able to understand that, look, there's something on my mind, and I really want to talk with you. Now you're going to need in the couple, especially like during a busy time, like a work week, or if there are things going on in your personal life that are really consuming. If you really need to talk to your partner, you may need to make space to have that conversation. Welcome to Couples and Connections, a conversation with me, Dr. Cynthia Post, a licensed clinical psychologist. And me, Teresa Sullivan Barger, a health journalist. We cover all things relationships: conflict, loss, success, betrayal, change, you name it, we'll dive into it.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

So let's dive in. Today we're talking about the couple connection. So, Cindy, can you just explain what is the essence of a couple connection and what does that term mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

When we talk about connection, we talk about people feeling really at ease and comfortable with one another. This is kind of the ideal. How do you build a healthy relationship with your partner? What does it mean to feel connected? Feeling connected means you can be authentic, you can be yourself. You don't have to worry so much about what you're saying or how it's received. You're not always scanning to see what's going on. This is what we want in our nearest and dearest relationships, whether we're talking about our partner, our children, our closest friends, we want people that we can be ourselves with and we don't have to worry so much. And the way that you build that relationship is to work on a basis of understanding one another. So there's someone by the name of Stan Tatkin who wrote a book called We Do. And at the base of this book, the sort of foundational piece that he's talking about here is something that he refers to as a couple bubble. And the couple bubble I think of as the house that the couple lives in. It's their sacred space. That's why we call it a bubble. It's kind of a funny name in a way, but it's a very useful idea that they're in their own bubble. And what that means is that that bubble is just for the two of them. There's no one else in there but the two of them. And that even includes their children, their parents, extended family. I'm calling them extended because they don't belong in the couple bubble. The only people in the couple bubble are the couple. And what makes that couple bubble house solid, attunement and attachment. And what I mean by attunement is an awareness of the other. So you look over at your partner when you're talking to them to get a sense of how is it going when you're talking? Is it going well? Is it not going well? And you can have certain rhythms and understandings of what's going on with your partner as you're really working to understand them and really be with them in a comfortable way. So if you're talking and your partner seems to be elsewhere, well, you wouldn't keep talking. Maybe you would understand enough to just give them space, or maybe you would lean in and say, Is this a bad time to talk? It seems like something's going on right now. But you wouldn't just keep talking in spite of the fact that they are seeming to be occupied with something else, or maybe tired, or who knows? And you might be able to tell some of this by the look on their face. What do they look like when you're talking to them? Are they looking engaged? What does their face look like? Are their eyes making eye contact with you? Is their face taut and tense, or is it kind of relaxed and open? What are you seeing when you're looking there? What is their posture like? Are they standing up nice and strong? Are they kind of hunched over? Are they seeming comfortable even with themselves? So these are all the kinds of things that we're talking about when we're talking about attunement. And that's one piece. And then the other piece is attachment. So attachment has to do with where we come from. And we all have a different attachment style. So some people come from families where they feel felt really comfortable. And in Tatkin's term, they have more of an anchor attachment where they just have solid connections, they know that they're comfortable, and if it's not a worrisome situation. So anxious people want to know you're there. Avoidant people tend to need space and don't have a lot of trust in connection. Anxious attachment is more about not being able to trust that the attachment is solid or safe. So they're always wanting to have a touchstone with you to know that you're safe. And these attachments that I'm talking about come from our past. So our original family is our family of origin on which we base our roadmap for connection. I'm saying all this because the way you talk to someone with an avoidant attachment versus an anxious attachment is very different. With someone who's avoidant, you want to say something like, whatever it is that's causing them to be distant, and you can pick up that they're distant, they're needing their space. And so with an avoidant person, you're going to have a different script for talking with them than you would someone who has more of an anxious attachment. So with an avoidant person, as a way of being attuned, because you know this about them, that they tend to need more space because you've been watching them and they seem to need space, and you're tracking when are they available, when are they responsive, when are they unresponsive? How do I talk to them that works? So I'm giving you kind of the cliff notes here of how to even get ahead of it so that you're not just doing a whole research project trying to figure it all out. If you know your part partner tends to be a little distant, that means they need space. And that means they may be avoidant or even dismissive, that they don't have a lot of faith in relationships. So they need a lot of space to sort of look inside to calm down. And they see relationships as in relationships, their job is to be helpful, but they don't think of the relationships as something they're going to get a lot out of. So they don't tend to look to others. So avoidant partners are a little harder to deal with because they don't tend to ask for anything, even though, like everyone, they need things in relationships. So you have to kind of work a little harder and say things like, I want to let you know, I'd love to talk with you when it works. So you're respectful of the fact that they don't seem available right now. Hey, sometime when you've got a minute, I'd love to show you something, or I'd love to talk with you about this. Or, you know, it would be really fun to take a walk at some point during the day. But you give them like a wide berth. You give them lots of space to figure out when and how they're gonna connect. As opposed to an avoidant person, an avoidant person, I'm I'm sorry, an uh anxious person, you're going to say something more like, you know what? If you're nervous or worried about something, then I'm right here with you. So I want to hear what's on your mind. If you have a problem, we have a problem. So they want to know that you're with them. They want to know that you're solid for them. And that's what's going to help them feel more connected and attuned.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

What happens if a person with an anxious attachment style is is in relationship with a person with an avoidant attachment style?

SPEAKER_00 7:57

So that's where it's so important that both people have awareness of the other style, right? So if you're an avoidant person, your tendency is to go away, to kind of calm down and need a lot of space and need to come back when you're ready. And an anxious person is needing you to come toward them and be reassuring. So the anxious person needs to remember that this person is avoidant and to not get anxious about that. And the avoidant person needs to remember that the anxious person needs reassurance that they're there. So both people need to remember what the other person is like.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

So does that mean that the anxious person has to say, I'm not taking this personally, this is not directed to me? And the avoidant person can say to their their partner, I need some space. It's not you, it's just I need I had a rough day or whatever. I love you. Um, we'll talk.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

And I'm coming back soon. So they make they make a point. That's exactly a perfect response. So they make a point to say, I am here with you, but I've had a rough day. So I don't want you to take this the wrong way if I seem a little spaced out or something. I just have a lot on my mind. Now the anxious person is reassured, then hopefully, oh, okay, so he's just got a lot on his mind, or she's just got a lot on her mind. I don't want to be gendered about this. Um, there can be anxious men and avoidant women, both ways. And and they, you know, all of the groups of uh people can have different attachment styles. But yes, you want to be responsive and you want to be reassuring and remember your partner. So the avoidant person doesn't just get to be avoidant if they're in relationship. They have to be aware what their partner is like. Now, if you happen to have another avoidant person, in one way that's easy because everybody goes away when they're feeling bad. But on the other hand, maybe everybody just goes away a lot and you have to be careful you don't just drift to drift away from each other.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

How do you make time or set aside time to to talk to each other, to listen to each other, to build good communication in spite of you know different personality styles or or attachment styles, I should say, and a lot of demands. I mean, people are busy.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Well, I think you have to be deliberate about it. I think that it needs to be part of your your world, whether you want to do We Wednesday or two Tuesday or together Friday or whatever, that you have a time where you can, you know each week you're gonna do this thing. Now, frankly, it would be better to do it every day. Like every day you check in with each other in some way. A natural time to do it is when you reconnect at the end of the day. You know, how is your day? Maybe you try to share a meal together, break bread together. Those kinds of things can be helpful rituals, or you make sure that you take a walk together or something like that, but that you somebody reaches for the other. It's not one way, it's both ways. And what helps couples, relationships, as Mel Robbins um talks about, you know, in in the book Let Them, she talks about the idea that in relationships, long-standing relationships, it's like you're on a seesaw and it goes up and down, but both people agree to stay on the seesaw, they don't get off the seesaw. And I thought that was such a wonderful um image of what a relationship is, a long-term relationship is like. And maybe one person doesn't really have the bandwidth to do much, and the other person is doing all the work, and then it kind of goes the other way, you know. But but that everybody stays in this in some way and stays connected over years and over time.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

So I've just celebrated my anniversary, my husband and I celebrating our anniversary. We've been married a long time, and I can think of there there were times when I was really focused on caregiving other people besides my husband. I, you know, I was very distracted, and he didn't take it personally. You know, he knew I loved him, he knew I would be back, but other people, you know, elder family members needed care. And I think about sometimes I read in books how people's spouses are selfish or people's spouses are insecure. Um and I I can't imagine going through life with a partner who expects your attention 24-7 and doesn't understand that you can that sometimes you you have to put them on the back burner. And I know that's not healthy to do it too much. So maybe you you talked about how you know, try to connect every day.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

What if you think that people understanding these things that you're talking about helps them be more generous? So I often say, how can you put her or him in a position to be generous? Like if they're included, then they can be generous. You know, gosh, I'm dealing with such and such. Now, if you're included in that and you're talking with your partner and you make them part of it, then they're in a better position to be able to say, Oh, you know what? I completely get it. You go do you, and I'll be here, and I want to hear what happens with that. And then maybe that partner follows up later and said, How did that go? I was wondering. I know you were going to take care of that today. How did your day go? How did that go? And I think this is true in any connection. When you can remember the people around you and remember something of what they're dealing with in life, that is a really important part. You ask how to have these connections and how to have these conversations. It's about listening carefully, looking at your partner, being aware of their attachment style, leaning in to really try to understand what is important here. What do I really need to understand? What is this person trying to tell me? However, they're doing it, whether they're using words or not using words. Maybe they're not using words, maybe they're just really distant. Okay. Well, you can still show up the best that you can and let them know that you're there when they're ready to reconnect in some way.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

When you were talking before, you said the couple bubbles, you know, the just the partners, okay? But what if the partners have a sick child? Could you talk about how they stay connected and they keep that couple bubble and they keep those communication lines open while also dealing with maybe uh, you know, a very sick child?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Stan Tatkin would refer to that as thirds. Anybody outside the couple bubble is a third. And so when you have a stress, whether it's an elderly parent, whether it's a sick child, whatever it might be that pulls you into something else, then the couple has to come together as a couple and make choices about how to respond. And the more they team up, the more connected they stay. You know, so maybe they're divvying, literally divvying up tasks. And maybe they're taking turns with care of that child as an example, but that they're staying connected, they're being deliberate about doing that, but it's hard on the couple. And so, as hopefully, as a child gets better, then the couple can kind of make more room for themselves and be deliberate about the fact that they've been pulled away and that their typical routine of connecting has been interrupted. And so they need to do this for the sake of this child that's very near and dear to them. But then now that the child is better, they can go back to what they were doing. And some of these transitions is some of what can be hard in partnership. If you've gotten out of the habit of being connected, sometimes you have to be deliberate about getting back into connecting again.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

I'm thinking that while you're talking that this is like putting money in the bank of your relationship, you know, exactly. That's a great way to put it. Credit in the bank, absolutely. So that, you know, sometimes you have to withdraw from your savings because of something unexpected that comes along. So it sounds like if you're spending the time with your partner on a regular basis and you're making the point of spending time with them, and it doesn't, I'm I'm guessing it doesn't have to be hours and hours of time, it's just a connection. And you said dinner or going for a walk, then it sounds like if something does pull them away at, you know, for whatever reason, they have that um, I guess, reserve to draw on. Yes, exactly. Um I keep thinking about uh how life gets sometimes gets in the way. Sometimes I think people take each other for granted. And I and I also think sometimes maybe just this is again based on these books that I read. And I, you know, I read a lot of novels, and I feel like sometimes people are afraid to be honest. They're afraid of a conflict, so they they don't want to cause a disagreement, so they keep their opinions to themselves. Could you talk about like the ideal uh healthy way to create a bond and whether it's okay to discuss disagreements? How do you discuss a disagreement?

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Well, I think what what you're talking about is that there are difficult conversations, and we've we've talked about this in the past, this idea that people need to be able to have conversations even about difficult things. There's a branch of connecting that we, you know, call conflict intimacy, you know, that having conflict is a kind of intimacy. And, you know, the idea that we need to be, if we can't talk about difficult things, we can't be that close. And so being able to understand that, look, there's something on my mind and I really want to talk with you. Now you you're gonna need in the couple, especially like during a busy time, like a work week, or if there are things going on in your personal life that are really consuming. If you really need to talk to your partner, you may need to make space to have that conversation so that it can go well. So you might want to actually make an appointment with them. You know, I'd really like to talk to you about something, and you tell them what it is you want to talk about. You say, I'd like to make a time for us to talk, and I'd like to talk about this. And then what I recommend is that people take turns talking. So you lay out what it is you want to talk about, you use the eye messages, you're as neutral as you can be about what the topic is that's bothering you. You're not blaming anybody, you're just sharing what you're sitting with. And you try to sit with and share with your partner your vulnerable feelings as opposed to your secondary feelings. So you're really talking about your sadness, your fear, your hurt. These are some of our vulnerable feelings. And if you people connect in vulnerability, so if you're sharing those kinds of feelings, you have a much better shot at connecting to say, you know, whatever it is that's on your mind, this has really been on my mind, and I've been wanting to talk to you about it. And what you want to do is share your feelings, not show your feelings. You don't want to enact your feelings in unproductive ways, but if you're really upset, you might find yourself doing that. So you might have to stop and notice and regroup and get back to sharing, not showing. And as the listener, if you're listening to your partner, then you might have to say, I really want to hear what's on your mind. This isn't going well for us. Can we please find another way to talk? And the way you'd know that that's happening is that you would be feeling uncomfortable, you might be feeling stressed, maybe voices are getting raised, maybe language is being used that isn't very nice, maybe the pacing of the conversation has gone off the rails. So you might need to take a halt to that. So back to the original frame of the couple connection, tense conversations can pull people apart if they're not deliberate about bringing that into the communication and the partnership.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

I I hear what you're saying about if things are getting heated to pull away. Do you think that that can really happen? I mean, I feel like speaking for myself, I can get emotional and I don't always have the foresight to say, I think this we should take a pause because I'm I'm in it and I'm not upset. You're upset, right? Right. So maybe you can offer some advice on how to see ourselves, you know, because we can only control ourselves. So how do we see this in ourselves before it gets to the point where we lose control?

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah, I think if you know that you're bringing up a tough topic, you can try to monitor your tension level. And if you can hear your voice going up, the minute you hear that, you can pause. And you might say, I think I need a minute, I'm gonna go get a glass of water, or let's just take a pause, or maybe even let's take a 10-minute break and come back to this, or maybe let's come back in an hour, you know. But that you're deliberate about noticing what you're feeling. And that the minute you're deliberate and you're noticing, you're also saying to your partner, you know what, I'm so sorry. I don't like the way I'm showing up right now. You know, Allie McGraw in Love Story had it wrong. Love means saying you're sorry often, early and often, because we are challenged by so many things in the world around us and the world within us, our interior world as well as what's around us, that we don't always show up so well. And and we do need to say we're sorry. It's an old movie. Um, love story, and and love means never having to say you're sorry, was a quote from the movie. And it does. That's not true. Love does mean having to say you're sorry.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Is there anything else you want to say? I feel like you've given us a lot to think about.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Well, I guess what I would say that I think is important is I have given you a lot, and it's all hard. And relationships, I think being connected is very worth it, very rewarding, very nourishing to the soul. They say that people who have connections live longer. That that's how important connecting is. And you know, there's actually research that's been done on this showing that people live longer when they're connected. And often if they have a partner, they live longer. So I think it's worth it. It is hard work, but I think it's well worth the effort. And it makes for a much nicer journey through life to have people there with you that you feel really connected to and that you can share life with. If you're willing to focus on your attunement, focus on your attachment style, and focus on the idea that when you're connecting with another person, you do really have to be aware of them and also what's going on inside yourself. Often you can't really let it go or it won't continue to go well. It'll kind of fall away. And you you have to work at staying connected. It's not a given.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

I'm gonna say, gonna sort of summarize what I'm hearing you taught us, to try to spend time each day connecting and seeing how things went for your your partner and sharing whatever you want to share. I know, like I know it's very it's a trite expression, but you know, sharing your problems cuts them in half, and sharing your joys doubles the happiness, something to that effect. So for me, making the time is some I sometimes take my husband for granted. So I'm my takeaway from from what you've said is to make time and really listen and be attuned to whether he's in the right frame of mind to be talking. And I I I have learned that sometimes he just wants to watch sports or he just wants to listen to music. So I have to wait until he's ready. Exactly. So thank you. I that's my big takeaway. Just trying to find a time that works for each partner and not trying to force a conversation when it's not the best time for your partner.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

That's exactly right. And the idea that if you think of a relationship as a little bit of a three-legged race, um, it's not a bad image. That you know, you're two people and you're trying to come together. And by definition, there's some awkwardness and difficulty in that process. And that if you accept that as a given, it makes it much, much easier to approach the task.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

You've been listening to Couples and Connections, conversations with clinical psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. I'm health journalist Teresa Sullivan Barger. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. New episodes drop every Friday. Next week, we'll be talking about ADHD and the effect on the couple.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Thanks so much for listening today, and remember, the couple relationship is a little bit like a three-legged race. It's worth the race if you stay connected, even though sometimes it can be challenging.