Couples and ADHD

In marriages where at least one partner has ADHD, the divorce rates are higher than in the overall population. In this episode, Dr. Cynthia Post, licensed clinical psychologist, shares the five ways the couple relationship is impacted by ADHD. Talking openly about frustrations and working to understand your partner can help couples get through the added challenges, Cindy advises.  

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Today, we're going to talk about ADD slash ADHD and the effect on marriage. And today, the focus is really going to be on what are some of the major ways that the couple is affected, such as differences in expectations, people getting defensive when trying to talk about it, the major difference in workload between one person and another person in a partnership. These are some of the things that are really problematic, in addition to just an unwillingness to own that a person has ADD. Finally, we end with what are some things that people can do when they have ADHD? What can the person who has it to, what can their partner do? Welcome to Couples and Connections, a conversation with me, Dr. Cynthia Post, a licensed clinical psychologist. And me, Teresa Sullivan Barger, a health journalist. We cover all things relationships, conflict, loss, success, betrayal, change, you name it, we'll dive into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

So let's dive in. Today we're talking about couples and ADHD. One of the reasons we're discussing this is statistically, couples with ADHD have higher divorce rates than couples when one partner doesn't have ADHD. So I wondered if you could talk to us about what are the top five ways that couples are affected by ADHD.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Number one, I would say, is that one person is holding all the work of life. Couples have lots of different things they do together. I think of couples as a stool. They have the area of work, they have the area of companionability, they have the area of intimacy. So in the area of work, this is a place that couples can be dramatically affected by this condition. So what that means is that one person is doing a tremendous amount of work, and the other person may or may not be aware of all that needs to be done. And I think of it like being a one-trick pony. They're doing what they're doing. They may be doing it very well, but there are so many things that need to be done. And the other person may be repeatedly asking them, could you, did you, would you, when will you, fill in the blank? And that that repeating pattern over time is exhausting for the person holding all the details of life. The electrician needs to come. We need new blah, blah, blah. We're having a problem with uh a leak in the kitchen. Who knows what it could be? There are all kinds of things that go on in a in a story in a family, in a partnership. So when you ask your partner, you want to feel that your partner is going to do what you just asked. And in this case, you can't be certain. So it's not uncommon that you send your partner to the store to pick up groceries, let's say, and there are five items on the list, and your partner comes back with three. And maybe you texted the list, but that person didn't look at their phone. So they don't see the list, even though you mentioned that you texted the list. Or you gave them a paper list, but they've now lost that paper list. So now they're working from memory, and memory is one of the things affected by ADHD. Sometimes people only remember what's right in front of them, and they have trouble holding things in longer-term memory long enough to get to the grocery store or something like this.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Is it okay if I ask you a question? Sure. My husband and I both have ADHD, and he does the grocery shopping. And it's this, it's a family joke because we give him, he has the list. And a lot of times it's our fault. He either goes to the store without telling us he's going, so we haven't added to the list, or we think of things once he's left, and we try to text him or call him, and he doesn't answer his phone. Right. Of course he doesn't. Forget it. Forget it.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I don't know what the solution is. Do you? Well, one solution is to not have unrealistic expectations, which is another one of the things on the on the list of five. So one is the sheer fact that one person is carrying more than the other, and that this leads to a lot of tension in the partnership. Another issue is that one or both partners may or may not be aware that the one of the parties has ADHD. And so when this happens, then there's a lot of irritability that builds up because now there is a misunderstanding about why they're not doing it. That maybe you're not doing it because you don't care about me. Maybe you're not doing it because you think I should be doing it, which can happen in partnership, ADHD or not, depending on what the roles are. So this is kind of a complicated, enigmatic story. So back to the list again. One thing on the list has to do with the sheer load and the tension that happens when it's unbalanced. The next thing on the list I would talk about would be kind of an awareness of the fact of ADHD. Is everybody aware? Because if you're not, and your partner is asking you over and over, and you're trying your best, you may feel a bit like, don't you understand? I'm doing everything I can? I brought back the three of the five items. What's the big deal? And people in this kind of situation, in the partnership and just their own understanding, spend a lot of time kind of validating themselves and giving the message to themselves and others that they're okay. And they're not really recognizing actually that there's a problem. So the third item on the list has to do with expectations. Because in some of these issues that I'm mentioning is different items do overlap, but they are separate entities as well. Expectations. The partner who doesn't have ADHD thinks you're going to go to the store, you're going to pick up all five items, you're going to come back home and bring them here. And if one of them isn't at the store and you know it's important, you're surely going to tell me that so that I know what to do. That the follow-ups and the awareness and the nuance of life about handling different things and kind of thinking about how to handle things when things don't go perfectly, those kinds of expectations are much harder to get to with someone who has ADHD. So it's the kind of thing you follow up and you say, Well, where's such and such? Oh, they didn't have it. Well, do you think about like that? Maybe you should let me know that. Like all of that whole layer of life, of the kind of thinking about life and how to manage it best, falls to the person who doesn't have ADHD. And so having very, or even just expectations about what ought to be done in a given day. So one person does 25 things, the other person does 10 things, maybe, let's say. And that person that does 10 things feels really good about those 10 things. And they're the ADHD person and they're frustrated and disappointed and feel hurt and disappointed that their partner isn't recognizing that they're doing everything they can. And the other person is feeling frustrated that they're doing so much more.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

So, in this situation, how do couples navigate this expect you know, different expectations? Because it doesn't sound like anyone's doing this on purpose. Um, so what how do you handle this situation?

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Well, I think one of the first things is to be able to understand, in fact, that there is a problem, that both people can get to a point where they understand this. And so what I'm speaking about is the need to lean into communication, not lean out. When people feel aggrieved, sometimes they just stop talking to each other. That's a really bad idea. I encourage people when it comes to this, talk early and often. Don't wait till things get really bad. Ask for what you need. Describe the problem, talk together about it, learn from your partner what's going on, express curiosity. Can you help me understand what happened today? That was really frustrating for me when I saw those things that I asked you to do not happening. Can you help me understand what happened for you? What was going on for you? And partly what you're trying to do is how do they think? It's not like how you think. And when I say you, I mean the non-ADD person. And there's ADD and there's ADHD. So ADD is attention deficit, and then there's attention deficit with hyperactivity. So there are two different kinds of versions of this, and both of them are challenging. The one with just the two D's, ADD, attention deficit disorder, is harder to even identify. ADHD is a little easier to recognize because this person has a tremendous amount of energy.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

Okay, so I have the ADHD, and my husband has the ADD. And here's just a perfect example. I'm listening to what you're saying. There was a door handle where the screws were loose. I asked him if he could tighten them. He didn't. And I didn't want to nag them. So I just decided to tighten them myself. It took two minutes. I'm already doing a million things. I figured he wouldn't mind doing that one thing. I don't, you're saying talk to him. If I say something to him, and what he'll say is, you didn't give me enough time to do it. And I don't, and then he'll get defensive. And I don't want it him to feel like I'm attacking him. I just can't, I'm juggling all the plates and I can only handle so much. So I'm just giving this as an example. If I talk to him about it, it it might end up in a conflict. And so I would rather just not say anything. I did it, it's done, move on. Are you saying that's an unhealthy thing to do?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

No, it's not an unhealthy thing to do. It's a great workaround. Just be careful how many times you're doing that. Because what happens is over time, the person who's doing a lot of those interventions is going to build up resentment. And the other, and then if you perceive that talking to your partner about it's only going to lead to more of a defensive conversation, then you kind of stop talking and you get a little bit inured of it. And that leads to a lot of loneliness for one partner and distance between the two people because there's something not being addressed. So that's why I say engage early and often. And so you might need to be even clearer about your expectations. So to use your example, I would say, you know, that door needs to be tightened. I could use your help with that. The thing is, I would really appreciate it if you could put that at the top of your list and do it today. Is that something you could do by the end of the day today? Would that be something that you could do? It would mean a lot if you could. If you can't, let's understand that right now.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

And the thing is, he meant to do it. He forgot. And so I think because I know he's forgetful, I know he doesn't mean to forget. I'm very, I feel like I'm pretty forgiving and understanding because he puts up with my ADHD deficits and challenges. So I feel like I should put up with his. And I know, yeah, sometimes I wish he did more, but I also know it's not his fault. But I don't know. Maybe I sound like an I'm enabling him.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

I think what you just said is really important that each of you puts up with a certain amount of stuff, and that's really important. And the balance of understanding that, and sort of there's a little bit of a knowing, like, okay, he intended to do it, he forgot, I'm not going to lord this over his head. And there, that that's all extremely important in the health of the partnership. Because ADHD or not, these issues come up in partnership. And being able to make room for your partner and accept these kind of miss missteps is very important to people just not feeling battered by each other. That's not helpful. And if you feel like he's doing his share, then that's okay. Um, I think where the problem comes in is where there's a repeating pattern of agreeing to do things, not doing them, and um, maybe it doesn't feel balanced. And so when that happens, then I think it's really important that people be able to talk together more often. But I would also say, even if it's not happening, and in your example, he does his spare share, I still think being able to think together about this and have everybody kind of owning what's happening is important. So, like I would be inclined to say, you put over the door, Titan door in a piece of paper. He does it, he puts it there. So that when he walks by the door, oh, there it is. And maybe the tools are right there for him, and you're not doing that, he's doing that. Like that there's some kind of a tickler, some kind of a reminder that will help him remember what he needs to do. I do that for myself.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

When I have to remember, when I have to remember to bring something, I put a sticky note or I tape a sticky note to my steering wheel so that I don't forget to bring something I'm supposed to bring, because I otherwise I know I will. It's kind of a joke in our family that I'm always forgetting things. So yeah, I've learned how to accommodate. Okay, keep going. I'm sorry, I cut you off. What are some of the other um you've given us three? What are the other two?

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Um that the person with ADHD, I started to talk about defensiveness. They feel inherently defensive, and they feel even defensive with themselves. Okay. So they feel defensive with themselves to the point that they can't even look at this. They can't even let themselves see what's going on here. And so this part about owning your ADHD becomes something that is really hard to do. It's hard to do because it means admitting that there's something that's a problem about you, that there's something that you have that's problematic or causing problems. I believe acknowledging these things is a lot less problematic than ignoring these things. But people's habits, sometimes long-term habits of ignoring these things can be really hard to override. And that the person who doesn't have ADHD is spending a lot of time kind of knocking on the door and saying, Hey, I need to talk to you about this. Hey, this is an issue. Can we talk about this? And that often they're saying it's not an issue. I'm fine. I did this, and they're pointing out what they've done right. So that can be, again, really exhausting, exhausting challenge. And that the person who's really defensive, it makes it so it creates communication issues.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was like in my early 50s, and my husband was diagnosed after I wasn't. Partly it was because we had teenagers who were getting diagnosed. And for me, it was like, oh, thank God, there's an explanation for why I'm the way I am. I I didn't feel bad about it. I was like, oh, it's not my fault. I'm not as organized as those other mothers who seem to get never forget a permission slip or anything else. So is it just some people respond with relief and others respond with shame?

SPEAKER_01 15:51

I do think so. I mean, I think you know, it has to do with kind of an overall feeling of self-esteem and worth. And also, depending on your history with these issues, how much it's affected you in your life. Like if you've grown up having undiagnosed ADHD much of your life, and then in your 50s you get it, it's kind of a miracle that you're able to have such an open mind and be glad for the information. A lot of people don't feel that way. They don't want to hear, oh, I have one more thing wrong with me. Like I've been told my whole life that I'm lazy, that you know, I don't get things done, that all this, and they don't want to hear, oh, I think you've got ADD, or you do have ADD, and it's causing a problem in our marriage. No way do they want to listen to that. They don't want to believe that, even when they've been diagnosed with that. So getting through that block is a really big thing because I believe that once people know they have an issue, it makes it much easier to manage it if they actually really own it. But that's no small matter owning it. So owning it is something for the person with ADD or ADHD, whichever one they have. And they do have slightly different presentations. The ADD, as I mentioned, is harder because you can kind of go under the under the wire. You just don't see this person. They're quiet in the background, not very distractable. It's the distractable person, really overtly distractable and more hyperactive, that gets noticed. So the other person, the other item that I would offer here, the fifth, the fifth one that I would say, is that the expectations of the person who doesn't have ADHD, if it should be a partnership where one does and one doesn't, is also really hard to adjust. That you really want to accept and be positive with your partner, catch them doing something right, offer support, let things go. Don't expect them to have the same standard of excellence or completion at the end of a day that you have. That's not going to be so easy for the person who doesn't have ADHD to do that. And also, I will I will also say whatever people's issues are, some people are dealing with them and some people aren't. And the people that aren't dealing with their issues are very frustrating that that for the people that are dealing with their issues. Because you have ADHD also. You do.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

So I read a story in Attitude magazine. By the way, Attitude has been a really great resource for me, um, the magazine, and also they have free webinars, um, and they have a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Um and it goes along with the organization Chad. Chad puts out that magazine, C-H-A-D-D, puts out the magazine attitude, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Oh, I didn't, I don't, I didn't realize that. I'm I'm not sure about that. But they they had an article and they did a survey uh among their readers, and some of the people who responded to the survey said that they were thinking of divorcing their spouse because they were so frustrated with their person, their spouse's ADHD. And so that made me think. I thought of someone in my family with ADHD who whose spouse did divorce them. And I thought the person that that family member had really challenging executive function difficulties. And it it is frustrating. But I thought maybe rather than going getting divorced, maybe the person can be explained that they're frustrated and the person with the executive function challenges can get help. But I know, I I mean, I know that I overextend myself, so I sometimes drop balls, but I have a husband who's patient with that. But I'm wondering, can you can you get help and become better at executive function skills?

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yes, you can get get better. You just have to be deliberate about it. I mean, look, you can train a dog to do things differently. Certainly, we can train humans to do things differently. The humans involved, though, need to be very willing to own what it is they're getting trained about. So, whatever your issue is, whether it's weight loss, whether it's ADD, whether it's anger management, whatever the topic, if you know you have an issue, you're going to be much more on the ball. But getting to the point of ownership is one of the really big challenges because people have so much shame and discomfort about the fact that they're this way. And they've been given so many negative messages before they were ever diagnosed.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Again, I keep talking about myself, forgive me. My daughter doesn't have ADHD. She gets very frustrated with me because she's helped me clean my office and then my office gets messy. And it's like, I know I need to set set aside time to clean my office, but I'd rather be out working in the garden or doing a million other things. So I think if I were in a relationship with a person who was really bothered by it, I would make it more of a priority. Is that what you're saying? That you have to think about your partner and think about what bothers them.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

You know, you're bringing up something very important. It probably bears thinking about in terms of maybe another podcast topic, which is the issue of motivation. How do you get motivated to change? What do you how do you kind of do the the hard things? And I would say the only way to do things that are hard is to do them. Do the hard thing, lean in and do it. And you may have to sort of tee yourself up to do that. Like this morning, I'm gonna get busy with A, B, C, and maybe you have a list of things that you're planning for. So you have to kind of have an organizational structure, which for people with ADD or ADHD isn't so easy, but that you live by a routine. And I would offer that maybe you want to do the hard things early. So for your husband, I would say, go ahead and fix the door right now. Don't wait until later in the day.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Well, thank you, Cindy. Um, I think today I learned to maybe be more clear about expectations and communicate that. Um, and also that I learned about timing for maybe when I make the request. I and I love the idea about having the person write themselves a note. You've been listening to Couples and Connections, conversations with clinical psychologist Dr. Cynthia Post. I'm health journalist Teresa Sullivan Barger. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Thanks, Teresa. I really think that if people can remember to communicate often and early about their needs, try to be realistic and kind with each other. And if your partner is giving to you in ways that counterbalance some of your challenges, maybe let some things go and not be so frustrated when they don't meet your needs and remember that they're working with you as well. In the cases where they're not working with you, holding back and not sharing your feelings is not a good idea. Share often and early about things in the calmest way possible.