Ep. 9 - From UCA to ULI: Leading Change With Wes Craiglow

What if the places we love aren’t accidents, but the result of clear choices about streets, water, parks, and where capital flows? We sit down with Wes Craiglow, executive director of ULI Northwest Arkansas and UCA alum, to unpack how our built environment silently shapes daily life: where we live, how we move, what we can afford, and the bonds we form with neighbors. Wes draws on his years as a Conway city planner and a 25-year Army career to explain why smart growth requires a long horizon and a steady hand.

We explore the Urban Land Institute’s role as a neutral convener, bringing together public officials, private developers, utility leaders, academics, and citizens to solve complex problems. Wes makes the case for regional collaboration in a polycentric metro, where decisions about infrastructure, zoning, and tax base ripple across city lines. He introduces the “Northwest Arkansas Promise”: a life where access to great schools, jobs, trails, arts, and daily amenities sits close to home at a price families can manage. Keeping that promise, he argues, depends on building infrastructure before rooftops, ensuring predictable entitlements, and helping fast-growing small cities develop distinct identities and stable sales-tax bases.

From housing mix and affordability to stormwater and mobility, we connect the dots between policy and lived experience. Wes challenges us to avoid a future of copy-paste suburbs by investing in planning capacity and main streets that feel unique and resilient. Along the way, he shares why bicycling, family life in Fayetteville, and an outdoor ethic keep him grounded in the region he serves.

If you care about how Northwest Arkansas grows; on purpose, not by accident, this conversation offers a practical roadmap and a hopeful vision. Subscribe, share with a neighbor, and leave a review with the one investment you believe would safeguard the promise for the next generation.

Transcript

Welcome & Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:01

This is Central to NWA, a UCA podcast. I'm your host, Paul Gatling, and we are bringing the University of Central Arkansas to Northwest Arkansas. Each episode, we will talk with leaders, alumni, and innovators driving this region forward. People who are shaping industries and defining what is next for our state. Let's get started. All right, we're back with another episode of Central to NWA, the UCA podcast. Paul Gatling here with you. And my guest today is right in the middle of all the conversations that we're having in Northwest Arkansas right now about growth and long-term thinking and regional development. And that man is Wes Creglo. He's executive director of the Northwest Arkansas chapter of the Urban Land Institute. He has a lot of great perspectives that we're going to get into. UCA alum, I think a couple of degrees from UCA, right? Army veteran, former city planner in Conway, a paid fly fishing guy for a while. So yeah, a lot to get into there. Wes, it's great to see you. Thanks for being on the pod.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

You got it. Thanks for having me, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yeah. So uh let's just start at a very high level when somebody asks you, uh Urban Land Institute, what is that? What do you do? What is the Urban Land Institute here for? Great

What ULI Is And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_00 1:13

question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

So ULI is about a 90-year-old nonprofit member association. Uh, we have a member network of about 50,000 and over 50 chapters. We call them district councils. Okay. Uh we have 50 district councils, uh, more, more so, in fact, around the U.S. and offices, in fact, in Australia, Europe, and and um, and Asia. Fundamentally, the mission of ULI is to uh improve, to advance best practices in the built environment. Uh we believe at ULI that that uh an improved quality of place directly influences an improved quality of life. And that means different things to different cities. So there's no one size fits all solution. And that's why we have this decentralized model with district councils supporting various metros throughout the country. We serve as a uh cross-disciplinary convener. What I mean by that is you look at our member network, and you're not going to see just one discipline, one trade association. You're gonna see everybody associated with helping a region grow: public sector, private sector, academia, nonprofiteers from every possible discipline you can think of. If you are engaged in helping shape the future of the built environment, the ULI is for you. And I think that's on display with the roughly 300 members that we have here in the Northwest Arkansas Metro advancing the ULI mission on our behalf.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

So you mentioned that phrase best practices. What does that mean uh when when you apply it to real places here like Northwest Arkansas? What is it where regionalism is our mantra, right? It's not city by city, it's regionalism. What does best practices mean for ULI and Northwest Arkansas?

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Well, it means something different to everybody. Yeah, right. I think when we all have a unique relationship with our built environment, the world that we exist in, right? What we do know fundamentally is that how we consume and build atop the landscape in cities and towns directly influences how people go on about their life, right? Uh this goes back to our earliest ancestors and how the natural world would influence behaviors. We got to go find shelter, we got to find warmth, we want to move with the climate, we got to go where the food is. In many ways, the built environment still uh modifies our behavior, those environmental determinants of health, right? And so where are we socially bonded? Where do we call home? Where do we go to work? Where do we play and entertain? Where do we educate and more? How tightly are we bonded with our neighbors and our friends? Um, the the built environment directly informs and influences how we go about our day-to-day. Now, what is a best practice within that context? It's different for everybody, right? And so uh I usually try to keep it simple and try to make it relatable uh to people in their own in their own minds. Where do you go on vacation? What sort of cities do you find yourself when you're traveling? Are they compact, walkable communities, uh rich with experience and and amenities in a short and a small area? Maybe you like going to those small towns as quaint little New England towns, or maybe you like a larger scale, a place like Rome or or uh or Athens or or Barcelona, uh, where maybe your built environment is more open space. Maybe your best practices have to do with large riparian corridors and and space for wildlife and peace and quiet, um, and everything in between. Yeah. And so it's everybody's gonna answer their that question differently. And from a governmental point of view, a regulatory or a market point of view, practitioners are gonna answer that question differently as well because they're trying to deliver products and zoning regulation and infrastructure choices that correspond to where they're you know the broad cross-section of their the citizens they support and the markets they support, where they want that market to go. And so again, at ULI, we are agile, we are responsive to the the various dynamics in any given district council area that we support.

Defining Best Practices In Placemaking

SPEAKER_01 4:55

And uh we we definitely love working by with and through the industry professionals to stay tuned in to what a best practice means to Northwest Arkansas and try to try to walk that fine line as a neutral convener and help people achieve it together.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

You know, um when you said 300 members, that made me uh think back on um, you know, I was at the Business Journal for a long time. I was at the very first ULI Northwest Arkansas uh gathering. No, okay. It was about this was probably nine or 10 years ago. You know, Jeremy Hudson was so instrumental in getting this um this council up and running with it. There was some sort of a you know sponsorship from the Oklahoma City uh chapter or whatever. And so uh the first uh meeting, Ramsey Ball was uh was uh, you know, told me you've got to be there. You've got to come to this. This is important, this is big. So I went to the record in downtown Bentonville, and that was the first event. There were um, you know, Mike Malone spoke when he was with our runway group after he left the Northwest Arkansas Council. Uh there was former mayor of Oklahoma City who was there who was moved on to ULI. Nick Cornette, probably. Yeah, that's it. Yep. And there were about 60 people there. Yeah. And uh it was great, and everybody, and like you said, it was just such a cross-section of uh bankers and real estate and and title and and and just all sorts of industry professionals there. And so, yeah, the as the decade has progressed, and I think you came up here what, seven years ago, six or seven years ago to do that.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

We were officially launched with staff uh in April of 2019. So we're coming right up on seven-year anniversary. I like to think that's the official change as we became a formal part of the ULI network and uh and over time grew our governance, grew a strategic plan, separated from that mentorship from ULI Oklahoma, and now charted our own course. We're very, very thankful that we've been able to come so far in seven years and appreciate you sharing those stories because again, that was before I was hired uh to lead the district council. And so I love hearing those early moments of just uh a loose group of folks who believed in the mission and came together to share ideas and talk about um various ways forward for our exciting here and a lot of different uh stories and ways to think about seven years ago and ten years ago and four years ago and just how we keep evolving so well.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Before we get deeper into that and Northwest Arkansas and your work, I want to go back to your your Conway roots. All right. Conway story, right? So as we mentioned, you're um you're a UCA graduate, but you're also a Conway high school graduate. You just kept through and through. Yeah, you've got uh what's the what's the six-legged thing, the cheer that they have?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Oh yeah, it's uh you're gonna put me on the spot. It's something like four for running with yeah, with all the flight and two for fighting with all the might or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been it's been 30 years since high school graduation and singing the singing the fight song, you have to forgive me. But yeah, proud, proud common way roots, multi-generational Conway roots, going back a long time and um and uh couldn't be more proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

And so you decided to stay home and attend UCA. Tough G tell me about that decision to uh to be a bear.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Well, what a gift to have an incredible institution in in my backyard. Uh and and it's important to acknowledge that my family has deep roots in Conway. My my mother and my grandparents both. My grandfather, Graham Nixon, was a state senator representing the Conway district and served as a trustee at the time, Arkansas State Teachers College. Um subsequent to that, uh my um my mother ran the Chamber of Commerce as an elder at a church there in Conway. And uh we have deep roots there. And then as a Wampuscat and later a UCA um student and graduate myself, uh, I definitely desired to carry on that tradition. I understood the value of having that institution right there in our city. Uh, I knew that I would, it would make me stronger and build my relationships in a way that would pay off. And they did. And I'm happy to talk about that a little bit today through my time at Conway City Hall. Uh, and and ultimately who it's made me today, right up here in Northwest Arkansas, and how I'm continuing to use the education and the uh the relationships I forged through graduate and undergraduate school at UCA, right here in Northwest Arkansas today. And I I would I would be failing in my duty if I didn't also mention the ROTC program, Bayonet Battalion. Um, UCA is where I transitioned from enlisted army to to my co earning my commission as an officer that is uh that is now 25 years into that career, um establishing me as one of Arkansas's senior leaders, Lieutenant Colonel. I'm currently the operations officer for the 87th Troop Command. And I would not have my military career but for that ROTC resource founding UCA.

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah. So your military career, let's let's stop there. You were a student at UCA for 9-11 during 9-11. Right. So what do you remember about that moment?

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I was in Burdick Business Building. It's funny you bring that up. I I don't share the story too often. Um I was in Burdick Business and accounting, uh, accounting class,

Origins Of ULI In Northwest Arkansas

SPEAKER_01 9:45

uh, accounting one. And I walked out and a friend of mine called. It was like um old Nokia cell phone. He said, You gotta come over and check this thing out. And I went to his apartment and just in time to catch the second plane. And um, and uh yeah, so fast forward, my story is not dissimilar to many. Ultimately, what matters is that on Thursday I was in the recruiter's just a couple days later. I didn't know why. Uh I didn't know I I guess I knew why. I didn't understand that that would that that event Tuesday 9-11 would ignite a spark in me the way that it did, but I was pretty quick to lean into that. I didn't know where it would take me. Certainly had no reason to believe that I'd be here 25 years later, uh, still in, still continuing to serve. But uh, but it set a lot of things in motion. And so yeah, I took a little hiatus from UCA, uh, went off to basic and AIT and OSITS, we call it, became a combat engineer and and served as an enlisted soldier for some time before coming back to UCA and finishing my undergraduate degree in 2004, uh, simultaneously earning that commission as a second lieutenant and starting that big phase two of my journey in the reserve and Arkansas National Guard uh as a commission officer.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

So, if not for 9-11, then what did you intend to do with your life? What what career did you envision for yourself? What were you going to be when you uh when you left the university?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

No idea, buddy. I think I mentioned to you on 9-11. I was in Burdick Business Building uh that morning, beautiful morning. And um and I think at the time I was a business major, but I think prior to that I dabbled in environmental science, maybe, maybe and history. Uh history scared me off because there was too much reading and writing, and I didn't have the patience for that. I think environmental science, I I got into organic chemistry and nope, zipped out of that pretty quickly. I think me and accounting didn't click. It wasn't until later I found geography and the geography department UCA. And all of a sudden I became a straight A student. And I knew I was just wise enough in my 20s to know that when something feels easy, it just clicks. Probably on the right path. Like, follow that, follow that instinct. And so um Jeff, Jeff Allen or Paul Buddh, Jerry Reynolds, Brooks Green, like the team that was around in the geography department in that era in the late 90s and early 2000s. Not not to suggest that the team now is a great, but Mary Sue Paste Smith, like that that team just uh really was amazing and it and they inspired me. And I didn't know what I was gonna do with a geography degree either. I assumed I was gonna come up here and go to grad school and maybe become a professor myself. Um but uh but I part of that geography degree led me to an internship at Conway City Hall, and that internship ended with a job offer. And uh at the time I think it was something like $29,000 a year to be a junior playing or a GIS tech on the team. And I thought, you know, I thought I was rich. Yeah, $29,000 a year. Where do I sign? And so that kept me. That was uh that was when I committed to staying in Conway. Uh and that that supported, I immediately went to Tap Townshill, incredible mayor, a longtime mayor of the city of Conway. And I went to my boss, Brian Patrick, and Tap Townshill and I said, Hey, can I can I go to grad school part-time? Can they let me escape City Hall for an hour or two here and there and start graduate school? And and they did. And so I went right back to UCA, marched right back across to Onnegee, back into class in the community. At the time, it was a traditional master's of science and community and economic development and uh and started down that grad school path and and completed the community development institute as part of it. Later went on to teach adjunct in both of those departments after graduation. And uh, I don't think that MSCED program is there anymore, but uh, but it was instrumental to my success all while I was um back at City Hall and learning how to be a city planner.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yeah, of course, um, you know, CDI, you mentioned the the institute is is obviously still there, it's still thriving. It's still uh uh coming up on a 40-year anniversary, if you can believe that or not. What a gift to our state and region to have CDI. Yeah, sends economic developers, municipal leaders all across the

Conway Roots, UCA, And ROTC Path

SPEAKER_00 13:45

state and other states as well. And so I've gotten to know uh, you know, Nathan C. the mayor at P Ridge, and uh Trish Way at the at the water utility, and just so many people up here who who uh you know that I knew from the business journal and they hear me UCA, first thing out of their mouth. Ooh, community development institute. I love CDI, big believer in CDI.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yeah. Well, I have uh of note, um, one of our staff members at at ULI, our director of operations, Megan Brown, I just told her your professional development, your next professional development uh uh uh target is CDI. So she's applying the new Northwest Arkansas cohort, the second cohort coming up. Yep. Uh continue to lean into that as an opportunity, uh, invaluable experience to those leaders. And again, the second and third order ripple effects across our state and region, what it means to UCA and what it means to the communities that UCA serves through the CDI experience uh touches countless lives. Again, it's a gift.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

All right. So you you came to Northwest Arkansas in 2019, I think, for the job at um at ULI. That's right. Before that, you spent 10 years at City Hall in Conway, city planner. Eventually, what what what's it like? What do people misunderstand about what a city planner does?

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Well, it's well, that's presuming I know what they understand. So I want to be cautious about trying to live in anyone else's mind. Um, but I will say that that being a city planner is uh at it it's electrifying, right? Especially in a city like Conway at that era from the mid-2000s to the mid-teens when I was there. And I got the chance to do basically every job in the in the department. So um comprehensive look and touches on on a period of Conway growth that was really instrumental to who Conway is today, right? I was there when we clicked the 50,000 population mark that set a lot of outside investment in play, interstate interchanges and um institutional capital hitting our landscape with hotels and restaurants and shopping centers and more. Um, and our at the same time, the city and the chamber were being very deliberate about investing in downtown and making downtown a destination. Uh, the the voters of the city of Conway were supporting bond referendums for park spending and the industrial park and more. And so it was, I was there at a moment, Paul, when we were flooded with gross. And what a great place to be, from the junior staffer uh all the way to one of the senior advisors uh to city council and the mayor to be a part of that. Um, it made me by and large, uh it was instrumental in making me the built environment professional that I am today, complimented, of course, by community and economic development master's degree and and leadership in the army and more at CDI, like we talked about. But but it was an incredible decade there in Conway. Um the role of the city planner is a delicate one because we at once uh need to be tuned in to this the citizenry, right? Uh the citizenry gets a vote in how their city grows and shapes uh over the horizon. And so how do we stay tuned into the citizenry while simultaneously being tuned in to um the political climate because it matters. We've got to get policies across the line, comprehensive growth strategies and more, projects across the line. And that demands you get, you know, planning commission and city council on board. Uh we've got to make sure that what we do is feasible and reasonable and acceptable so that you can get get the work done. And then you're trying to strike a balance with um with best practices. What are the what what do we know from case studies in similar cities? What is working and not working in other places? We have grand visions, but how do you get the rubber to the road, right? And there are systems and processes, just like there are in every industry and every trade and every career. There are systems and processes and practices that we need to stay true to, um, the ethos of the professional planner, if you will, code of ethics, right? And and how do we stay true to those to make sure that we avoid any minefields along the way and exposure to the city along the way. And so being a planner is is much like is much like walking a tightrope and maintaining a balance between all of those stakeholder groups and points of friction and interest. And it's it's it's puzzle solving every day and it's a lot of fun. Not not without its challenges, and you don't always get it right, no question about it. But but it is a lot of fun. And when you do get it right, you believe that you've shaped something that may you may not see in your working life. Like the the the story arc of a city planner is measured in generational scale, right? And so sometimes the policy or projects that we would advance may not show up materially for 20 or 40 years on the landscape in a way that's affecting the community in in a positive way. And so, so it is nevertheless fulfilling, but it's a long play on fulfilling. And uh that's one of the it's one of the most beautiful parts to me.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Is

9/11, Military Service, And Purpose

SPEAKER_00 18:48

that still part of your work here? I mean, to to get people to think uh past just their next project. I mean, you're you're thinking in the future. Is that the biggest challenge? Is that a challenge?

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, that's what I do. I mean, at ULI right now, that's that's primarily where we live. So um we'll share with you that we are right now really committed to helping this region understand where the market is, right? Like where where do we see capital deploying? Because capital is the grease. When when that when those uh debt partners and equity partners show up and choose to make an investment in a project, um that that gets the the the wheels in motion, right? Um where is the infrastructure going? Effectively, those infrastructure decisions can be like capital partners, right? So what's the state highway department doing? What is the Beaver Water District doing? What are other wastewater providers like NACA doing? What are the individual municipalities doing with the utilities and the transportation infrastructure that they control? And then what is the what is the role of zoning and regulation, right? Uh and how does that regulatory environment um support uh entitlement, especially friction-free entitlement? Uh, how do we do we have predictability in the entitlement processes? And and then what's the role of the citizen? Like genuinely, what's in the best interest of the citizenry in terms of creating choice? How do we move around the landscape? Choice, what sort of house might be available? Is it affordable and architecturally? Does it support the needs of my family? What's its location? What is the location of the places where we're growing for our citizenry? Uh, what does that mean to how the region behaves collectively? Uh, access to good services, amenities, social bonding, public health outcomes, uh, right down to to like how the natural world around us is behaving. How are we maintaining open spaces? How are we managing our stormwater? Um, where are we moving our our uh refuse? Um, and and what is the role of recreation, right? And tourism. And so all of these pieces kind of have to find a way to nest like a puzzle, right? And it is complex and it is hard. And ULI right now, as much as anything we're doing, we are we're we are we are sustaining our presence as a neutral convener that brings together all of those stakeholder groups as frequently as possible to talk about these challenges. How do we get these, how do we see the puzzle pieces? What puzzle pieces might be missing? Do we understand, like you would like on the the cardboard front of a puzzle, do we have a visual for where we think this thing is going? Who's holding what piece? Where does it fit and when? It's it's a complex and and and it's necessary. I think fundamentally it's necessary to do this. It's hard. It's full of friction, it's full of uncertainty and complexity. And uh and when you're doing regional scale planning and development initiatives across uh all sectors, public sector, private sector, and more. Um it's hard. But it's never it's so necessary. Because if we don't, we Just kind of grow accidentally, and various stakeholder resources might just simply begin to flow towards their path of least resistance. And that's normal for all of us, I think. And then we end up with a place that doesn't feel cohesive. It doesn't feel made. And moreover, and worse, it starts to erode a sense of who we are. This thing that makes Northwest Arkansas so special, where we can balance a great built environment right next door to a great natural environment. Everybody's got choice, right? Where I live, what can I afford, how I move around my landscape, um, amenity-rich environment. Do I feel like I find myself in the identity of Northwest Arkansas? All of these things are so important and we don't want to lose that. That's the secret sauce, right? And I think Northwest Arkansas is as good as I've ever seen at regional collaboration. And uh, and I think it's it's our biggest strength, in fact. And I am so grateful, so thankful to lead an organization with a mission as important as ULI and be right in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

If so, if the work is hard and it's a complex puzzle every day when you go to work, where do you find the enjoyment of that? What what what is the what is the the biggest payoff for you in the work that you do?

SPEAKER_01 23:13

People. I think I'm people first kind of guy. I um uh it fills me up. You know, I'll like I look at my the ULI board. Um, for example, I look at the ULI board and I see we have mayors and we have executive leaders from the private sector, uh, we have academics on our board. Um we have uh industry trades professionals, right? Senior leaders um from various disciplines throughout, uh other nonprofiteers, you name it. And they're all incredible. Everybody here, uh everybody in the ULI world that I get to interact with, uh they're much like me. They're really committed to making Northwest Arkansas the best it can be. They are they all believe that our built environment matters, that how we choose to consume and build atop this landscape will either improve the quality of life of everyone

Finding Geography And City Planning

SPEAKER_01 24:05

that calls this place home and the economic opportunities that exist therein, or it starts to erode that. And we all show up with passion and resolve and a commitment to spend the majority of our waking hours solving this puzzle. As complex and difficult as it is, uh, it's it's important and it's necessary if we're gonna continue to be our best and achieve our fullest potential regionally. So those people, those leaders, those thinkers, those doers, those action ninjas out there every day fighting the good fight, they inspire me. And uh and I'm so deeply grateful to be in their presence every day. There's a lot of other good things I could say, but I think I am a people first guy, and I love the network of leaders that I get to uh that I get to call friends and colleagues.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah, we've got a great network of of uh leaders here. And you mentioned regionalism and and the fact that it works so well here uh and it has for 30 years. That's that's how we've been able to do a lot of things. You came from Central Arkansas. You were heavily involved in in central Arkansas municipal leadership. And what is the I'm not asking you to directly compare, but what is the difference? Why, why does regionalism work here and maybe doesn't work in some other areas, not just central Arkansas, but what is what is the secret to regionalism uh taking hold here?

SPEAKER_01 25:28

I'm gonna give you a hunch. I don't know if it's valid. I mean, it's a thorough assessment of a lifetime of doing this work. Um, I think it's informed hunch. Um but it but it is only mine. It is only my hunch. Maybe invalid. Um I think there are two things that come to mind. I've thought about this a fair bit because it is definitely distinguishable. This is a distinguishable artifact. Regionalism is is more effective here than it is in central Arkansas. Um fundamentally, I think Central Arkansas historically is a um is a monocentric metro. And as many monocentric metros um faced in the mid-20th century, late 20th century, there was a lot of flight out of Little Rock. And over time, those satellite communities, yes, northwest north, North Little Rock up close, but I'm really talking about Lono County, uh Faulkner County, and Saline County here. Um, they began to take on an identity of their own and really become proud. And in many ways, looking at Conway, quite firewall. Conway's got an economy and a healthcare system and an education system and a quality of life. And Conway's got every strength necessary to serve, to be on its own with or without this anchoring city called Little Rock. Now, that may not have always been the case, but put a hundred years into evolution, and it is. And I think that's true for a lot of the other cities, maybe not to the scale of Conway, but but there's a pride associated with being bitten or Bryant or Cabot or Conway or Maul Mel or even North Rock and even the smaller suburbs. So, so I think historically just the growth of a monocentric with the flight that occurred in the late 20th century um set conditions differently. Now you look up here and you see, uh, especially over the recent past, a very polycentric metro with the big four cities, and now more than half of our growth is occurring outside those big four cities. Majority of housing starts and population is now arriving in the roughly two dozen municipalities that surround the big four. But it breeds, it I think, I think just being a polycentric metro inspires regionalism, right? Um, our growth inspires a central uh sense of regionalism because we welcome newcomers. We're all so many of us have a newcomer story, some a little bit older than others, but but very few of us, in fact, now can say, I was born here. I'm multi-generational Northwest Arkansas. Uh and so there's a spirit of welcome, you know, a spirit of openness associated. Um, so I think all those work together, the historic ebb and flow of how the metros grow monocentrically and polycentrically. I think they play a role. The second major reason is because you've got you got key leaders. I mean, I look back at the founding of the council and when the choice was made um by those, you know, those Northwest Arkansas founding fathers, if you will. Um, you know, uh, you've got obviously Sam Walton and JB Hunt and Don Hyson, and you say um they made they made the statement we're staying. But if we're gonna stay, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta change a few things and we're gonna have to work to get us an interstate. We're gonna have to work to uh update this airport and get it out of Drake Field, and and we're gonna have to make some investments that create the workforce that we need and attract the workforce that we need and more and more. And I think that set the compass uh for regional collaboration in a way that it might not have existed otherwise, but for those leaders coming together and establishing the council. Um, because now, right through where we are today, in things like the Razor Back Greenway and and regional coordination on growth strategy, the regional growth strategy that the council is getting ready to submit on this spring and share with the public this spring and more. The list goes on and on. The number of regional initiatives that were birthed because those that decision was made, I think it's unique to Northwest Arkansas. I don't think it happens in many other places, and it's a forcing function that makes our jurisdictions partner and collaborate over important regional issues. That that that rising tide sort of spirit that exists, that what's good for Springdale is also good for Rogers, Fayeville, and Bentonville uh and and more. Um, that attitude is is instrumental to our success.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

All right. So yeah, you mentioned the council just celebrated their 35th anniversary and all that they've accomplished. I mean, they've it it's it's uh it's uh when you put it on a list and just the things that you just rattled off there uh is not even half. Uh it's just an incredible organization and convener. So let's look ahead 15, 20 years. You know, if we the work you're doing and a lot of our other regional leaders are doing, if we get this right, yeah, you know, what is what does Northwest Arkansas look like in 15 or 20 years? And if we don't, what are the risks? What are the where could we slip through the cracks?

SPEAKER_01 30:09

Well, I I

Inside City Planning During Fast Growth

SPEAKER_01 30:10

I started using this phrase, the Northwest Arkansas promise. And here's how I define it if you live in Northwest Arkansas, there there's a an implicit promise that has been made to you that you're joining a metro where um where you have close access to good services and amenities, where you have access to great education and great employment, generally safe environment, where you have access to um the great outdoors, just out your backyard, and where you have access to world-class entertainment, um where where all of these things can coexist in one place and it's an affordable uh qual, it's affordable life, right? Like you can find a home that you can afford that complements your needs and lifestyle in a place that you want to live and right out your doorstep, good services, amenities, recreation, jobs, all of it. And and that is a promise that we're we're really good at making good on in northwest Arkansas. I think we have to ask ourselves um, is it a given that that promise will be here in 20 or 30 years for our kids and grandkids? And that is not a given. I want to be crystal clear about that. There's no layups, right? It is hard work, it is puzzle solving every single day. If we're gonna maintain this promise with a straight face and make good on it when people arise, it's it's our small uh right now. I think our our big cities couldn't be prouder of. Um, I'm thinking a lot about our small cities right now. They're growing so rapidly. And I'm looking at you, Mayor Falkberry Grove, Mayor C P. Ridge, and I'm looking at you, Mayor Knoblett, and in Cave Springs and Mayor Edwards and Centerton and more. And I hate to leave anybody out. I don't mean to do it on purpose. I I could rattle off two dozen if I need it, but but you all are the future of this region, right? And you're gonna continue, you're already receiving the lion's share of residents, and you're gonna continue to receive the lion's share of residents. I do not think we're gonna put the toothpaste back in the tube. I think we have evolved to the spillover model. And in Northwest Arkansas is now gonna see those suburbs thrive around the big four at an increasing pace. The challenge we face, Paul, is how do we not make them all the same bedroom community? You and I can right now get on a plane or a bus and go visit dozens and dozens of metros that are a generation ahead of us on the growth curve. And I can put a blindfold on you and I can drop you in the middle of any of their suburbs and ask you to tell me which one you're in. And I defy you to do it. Because so often, those suburban communities that surround the primary metro, whether it's monocentric with one big city or polycentric like our big four, very often those suburbs start growing in very similar ways. And you move, you fast forward a generation or two, and they all start to look and feel the same. And I don't know that that they're achieving the promise necessarily out there in the suburbs of those metros that are a generation or two ahead of us. I know they're not achieving their fullest potential of distinctive character and a distinctive identity in many of the suburbs and metros around the country. I believe that if we are going to continue to make this Northwest Arkansas promise to people who haven't arrived yet, and we're going to make good on it. Well, when they get here, we must at the fastest pace possible be investing in the planning and growth management capacity of the two, roughly two dozen small cities that surround the big four. And we have to help them understand what makes them unique and desirable. What is their comparable advantage to the next suburb, a short five or 10 minute drive down the highway, and what decisions we can be making for ourselves to ensure that we grow on an amenity-rich environment, where people have a variety of housing and mobility choice that is affordable, where we can offer the same educational and recreational promises that the big four cities can, where we can stay in front of our infrastructure and growth management challenges and we have the bonding capacity to take care of our own. When we can help the small cities scale at the speed they need to and achieve that level of capacity where they can be distinguishable and they can be proud of who they are and they can meet the growth needs, then I think we're definitely headed down the right path to making sure our children and grandchildren will achieve the same promise that we've been able to achieve.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah. Well, you I'm going to stick with this puzzle analogy that we've got going. And you just rattled um a lot of the most important pieces off, right? Uh, you know, transportation and connectivity, you know, housing mix and affordability and and infrastructure and pace of growth. And then uh the the important one that you obviously think and I do too, identity of these towns versus the scale. So I'm gonna put you on the spot here then. You know, which of those puzzle pieces is the most important?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

I um I think I think it I would have to defer to a given community to identify I mean I the infrastructure is just gonna be a critical piece of it. It's just gonna be uh, you know, ULI published our trends, our emerging trends and real estate report on January 15th. It's out on our website. I encourage people to go take a look at it. Um, it should come as no surprise what I'm about to say. Infrastructure. We we listened to focus groups, did surveys, interviews, went through uh Co-Star data. And infrastructure is just driving the conversation right now. And um, we've got to ensure that infrastructure is a place that's both street um and also water and utility services, uh stormwater as well. Um that that is a very expensive challenge. Um and it is it is all too often um not met. And so growth occurs. You know, the development, the water development is going to flow downhill. And if you've got a lot of available land, farmland out there that can be bought up and turned into residential subdivisions, um, that that is hard inertia to stop. And very often, and this isn't just a northwest Arkansas story, it's an America story. Very often that growth occurs before the infrastructure is fully prepared to serve it. And so we end up growing in a way that's not particularly resilient. You know, we we we can maybe match the pace of that growth with a little bit of stormwater infrastructure. Maybe we can we can build a road, but it's got open ditches instead of curb and gutter. Um, maybe we can't, we can't quite get the lit streets out there, can't afford the sidewalks, you know, but but we'll at least topcoat that county road and we'll get it out there to where that subdivision is. And that's a tenuous bargain. It's a very tenuous bargain because the growth is going to continue to come and the infrastructure needs to be robust enough to be to to support that growth in a resilient way. Simultaneously, the tax base serves as infrastructure. And so, how do we help these small cities not simply grow as residential bedroom communities of the big four, but grow in a way that they have their own tax base? In the state of Arkansas, our city jurisdictions are pay, they pay the bills with sales tax primarily, like overwhelming. Uh overwhelmingly, they pay with sales tax. Well, if they're just bedroom communities, are they getting the grocery stores and the restaurants? Are they getting the hotels? Are they getting any other of those cash registers necessary so they can pay for police and fire and sanitation and all the other services, even amenities like parks and more? So infrastructure and tax base, I think, is critically important. But as far as identity goes and zoning and how you want to build your built environment, um, what's our what's the role of open space and and bikes and pedestrian underbuilt environment? Those are important questions. I think they're secondary to to tax base and infrastructure. Um, and they are best left for those communities to answer for themselves. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Are you a bike rider? Are you a cyclist? Very much.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Very serious people for

Convening Capital, Infrastructure, And Policy

SPEAKER_01 38:10

to work or to recreate or both or all of the above on occasion when possible. I call East, uh, we're near East Fayville, as I call it. If anybody knows the area, base of Mount Sequoia, Reed Elementary, Gully Park, all that that area. Um, I'm blessed. And um, we just city of Fayville, the the the transportation infrastructure complemented by the recreation infrastructure, it's incredible. Uh and it is right on our back door. So when uh always ride recreationally, but when feasible, uh, yeah, I'll ride, I'll ride a commute to a meeting or whether it's with staff or another ULI partner, whatever it is for sure.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Feasibility, does that include a temperature threshold either way?

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Uh, the older I get, uh, I don't know if it's a blood pressure thing or what, but these colder days, it is a barrier to entry, Paul. No doubt about it.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

That's great. You and your your why family, what do you love most about raising a family in um Fayetteville?

SPEAKER_01 39:01

The promise. I mean, I love Fayetteville. We chose it on purpose. Uh, we we shopped around all four of the cities when we were shopping for homes in 2018. Um, nothing against any of them. Uh Rogers, for example, reminds me an awful lot of downtown Conway. We would have loved them in downtown Rogers. Bentonville, mountain biking family, obviously wonderful there. Um, Springdale loved the arts, loved the multicultural scene. It was affordable at the time. Fundamentally, we chose Fayetteville. Uh, it was a mature city, had it offered a lot of amenities. We like the college town vibe. I acknowledge it's not for everybody, but uh, but we love the fresh air as students ebb and flow through our community. We love the quiet summers. Sure. But I don't, I'm not displeased when students are around either. It's a it's a nice vibe. Uh, and at the time, importantly, very alien, very importantly, at the time, my wife was uh still working for UAMS. She'd moved her research from uh from the Little Rock campus to the Fayetteville campus, and she did put her foot down and say, I've been commuting from Conway to Little Rock long enough. I am ready to shorten commute. And so that was a big deciding vote in why we chose Fayetteville. Love it, don't regret it. I think Fayetteville's where we've planted roots, and um, and it's where our 12-year-old son will call him. It'll be his hometown. Yeah. And I couldn't be prouder of that.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Let's go back to that last item that I read in your bio about the fly fishing. Yeah. Uh a fishing guide. You, you, that's that's been part of who you are growing up, and and was it was a business for you at one point.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

It was. It was actually bigger than fly fishing. So I ran an adventure travel company for uh for a period of time back in the 2000s. We focused on vehicle-based travel. Now it's taking the form of overlanding these days. I was way too early to the market on that. But fundamentally, uh, we would we would invite folks out um to the Ozark and the Washington National Forest, and we would help them use their tools. Like folks have a Jeep or they have some camping gear, but they they may not necessarily be fully comfortable in in using those tools in the great outdoors. And so leveraging my army experience and some other relationships around the region, we would, we'd take folks out on adventure trips, long weekends, and uh we would we would do some off-roading. We talk about how to build a fire, how to do wilderness first aid, how to communicate in the backcountry with ham radios uh and more. And yep, fishing was a part of that, but fishing's been a part of my life since I was a little kid. I grew up on a cattle farm, you know, fishing in the ponds to uh to to where I am today. I got a fishing boat, a little river skiff, and and I still love getting out. I can I can't say I've ever been a paid guide. I've been a adventure travel guide, um, but I've never been a paid fishing guide. But maybe for retirement I can I can do it. I think if I do, it'll be targeting kids and veterans, uh helping people um discover the joy of fishing. Uh, but um, but but that's a retirement goal.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

How do you leverage? You mentioned leveraging your army experience. How do you do that into your work with ULI? Like you're a convener, like you mentioned, not just here. I mean, ULI just hosted a national event, right? With people from all over the country and the world came here. And, you know, if what if one thing we know how to do in Northwest Arkansas, it's summits, right? It's gatherings. We have large-scale gatherings for whatever your your stated purpose is. So, how do you leverage your military background in in approaching how you uh approach your work with ULI?

SPEAKER_01 42:11

So uh it's invaluable. I didn't, you know, I joined for 9-11, got the call to serve, uh, acknowledged that it's an adventure. I didn't know what to expect. I really leaned in, took advantage of what it was, leveraged all of the benefits to my benefit. Um, you know, I'm no dummy. Um the Army's put a lot into me. Little did I know that the leadership, education, the pillars of professional development in the Army, the institutional, the operational, and the self-development pillars uh would shape who I become as a leader and a manager of organizations and operations. And I think it's on display uh in virtually everything I do. I I tone it down. I don't, I don't want to have a military presence among my staff team at ULI, nor among any of our partners and and friends. Um, so I I do my best to code switch, but but functionally, structurally, everything that I know about um leading and managing large organizations in complex and uncertain environments with limited resources and uncertain partners and um uh yeah, uh big goals. Everything I know about leadership and management, I chalk up to what the Army has invested in me. And it's one of the reasons I continue to stay in to this day because Dark Soul Army National Guard is it is dense with incredible leaders, men and women doing every available uh operational specialty occupation you could think of, all mentors to me. There's not a weekend I don't go down or a week of training or a conference somewhere or a deployment. Um still doing those every five or so years. Well, there's not an experience in uniform that doesn't make me better because of it. And I try to bring those lessons and those fundamentals back and employ them in maybe more sensitive ways, uh, a little more civilian code. Uh, but but I try to bring it back because I believe in it. I think the army is really good at doing hard things well. And uh Lord knows trying to help this region deliver the deliver itself uh the best uh deliver a form the best it can be is definitely a hard challenge. And yeah, yeah, I'm very, very grateful to um to everything that shaped me, inclusion military and UCA more.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Right. Great, that's great stuff. Well, real uh I really appreciate um the conversation. And I think it's gonna resonate with some people who who uh have uh an interest in, you know, look, we're going so fast up here. We are uh we're we're trying to manage a lot of different things and a lot of different groups like yours and others are trying to um uh to help manage those and help plan and and help us deliver on that promise. So where can people keep up with with you and and your work and what the ULI does uh for watching this or listening to this right now?

SPEAKER_01 45:03

Arkansas.ui.org. Okay. If uh if you want to uh if you want to be involved, and this goes for anybody. Generally we work with professionals and and industry disciplines, but but we love to hear from Joe and Jane public too. The citizen gets a vote, and

Why Regionalism Works Here

SPEAKER_01 45:20

we we are definitely tuned in. Uh, welcome anybody who wants to be engaged in influencing and shaping and and dialoguing about the future of this region's built environment. Encourage you to lean into ULI. Swing by our website. You can subscribe to the newsletter at the bottom of any of our web pages, keep up with what we're doing, and definitely find us on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook. Join us for an event or just simply drop us a note. We'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yeah, I mean, that's you know, anyone who cares about the long-term uh health and success of this region, right? Um, that's the perspective you that you had today. That's exactly the kind of um a voice that we want to have on our podcast for not only our UCA audience, but our Northwest Arkansas audience. So um really appreciate what you're doing. Thanks for spending some time with us today and continued success. It was a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Paul, we certainly appreciate all that you're doing and grateful to the entire UCA family for choosing to make this presence in Northwest Arkansas. I think it's very important and thankful for my, not just my own experience at UCA, but for all you stand for as an institution. Keep up the great work.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

All right, awesome. Appreciate you. Thanks for saying that. All right, we appreciate everybody tuning into this edition of Central to NWA. Until next time, go Bears. Go Bears. That's it for this episode of Central to NWA, a UCA podcast. I'm Paul Gatling, Senior Director of Northwest Arkansas Engagement for the University of Central Arkansas. Be sure to subscribe to the show and follow UCA on all the appropriate social media. I'll see you next time on Central to NWA.