The Brothers Grimm - I'm Just A Guy Who Misunderstands Pack Dynamics

Today, Will and Sam take a look at one of Heath Ledger's last performances as a fairy tale-obsessed conman who gets asked to help Matt Damon beat up a horse that spits spiders in the action-fantasy-buddy-comedy-horror-action-comedy-thriller-fantasy-horror-action-action-buddy-buddy-comedy-fantasy movie, the Brothers Grimm.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Yeah. Oh man. Oh Jesus. I'm sorry. I imagine like a fucking war war chief giving a speech to his warriors, and he just starts coughing and he's just like he's just like, tomorrow we stand against many, and fate will not care not what his right-hand guy comes up like hammering him in the back.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

You're good, you're good.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

You're good. Oh god, can someone get can someone give me a drink of water, please?

SPEAKER_03 0:30

We just got Capri Sun. Like you told us to only bring Capri Sun.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

You told us to only bring Capri Sun. Did you did you bring the lunchables?

SPEAKER_03 0:39

Which lunchables do you think like Viking raiders would have eaten?

SPEAKER_02 0:43

I think well probably not the little pizza ones.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

They probably would have gotten the stackables.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Well see, here's the th here's the thing, man, is uh we know that the that the Vikings were a very mercantile people as well.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Uh they they did a lot of business and wealth factored very heavily into their status. So I think it would be much like it would be uh at school in the modern day, where like if you are a dork or a loser, you probably have the ham and cheese lunchables. Sure. Yeah. Because like that's that's just the lowest status lunchable. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Then like the tier list of lunchables.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

But like if you were the if you were the son of a local lord, you'd probably have the pizza lunchables.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Right, yeah. And then like the real notables, they have like the the like nacho ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, yeah. Like like the the the the guys that ended up in like fucking uh the Eddas had not had nachos.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Beowulf had nacho lunchables.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Beowulf had nacho lunchables.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Yeah. Ragnar Lofbrock had fucking nacho lunchables.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Eric the red who discovered North America. He brought nachos to the to the people there. Actually, this fucking owns, man. Like that's when you return, we shall return the feathers. The Vikings invented nachos is now my favorite thing.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

I mean, that's a fun theory.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Why not? Why not? Like I have never and you know, I'm sorry if this is stereotyping, but I've just I've never known a person of Scandinavian descent to correct anyone if you say the Vikings invented something. Yeah, like like no Norwegian is gonna go like, oh no, we we we did not invent nachos.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

They'll be like We did not invent the microprocessor.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

We did not invent no, it's like yes, the Vikings invented the microprocessor. How do we have a 98? Alright, fucking. This is this is good, but we we gotta get started. Right. Indeed. Here comes the sippy poo. Okay. Imagine visiting a library and going into the fairy tale sections. Now imagine that every cover in the fairy tale section won't stop screaming and demanding you pay for their marketing expenses. Welcome to Slop Culture. Today we're talking about the Brothers Grimm. Yes, welcome to Slop Culture, the happy hour podcast where we strive to see the beauty and stupidity. I am your host, Sam Sykes, and with me as always, a man who once inadvertently sparked a mafia war in New York after he went to a restaurant and ordered a plate of, and I quote, Paschetti and Mee balls. It's Will Palmer, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

Now, to be fair, I had recently tripped on the curb and bit my tongue. I wasn't trying to be anti-Italian. They took it that way. They get offended easily. You know those people. They get off short uh trigger or short fuse on those guys. So when you know I asked for the meatball, because really like my tongue was I really that motherfucker. It was slippery out, like you know, like you look you look around a little bit and then you look accusingly at the ground like it was the ground's fault.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Well, now I I recall uh the Gambinos and the Masuchis got into it because the Gambinos believed it was offensive, and like I respect that opinion, but the Masuchis said, and I I agree with them, they said that me balls is also like kind of adorable, like it's very adorable, like you know, like it's like oh Paschetti of Mee balls, like Paschetti of Meeball, right? Paschetti of meatballs, like you know, like a little kid. Like that's I the Masuchi, the Masuci's are right. That's what uh that's what uh Don Carmen Musuchi said when he said when he said Hey, the kid's kind of cute. The kid, it's a cute thing, it's a little quink.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Cut the kid a break. So there was a bit of a standoff, and only defused when I, without even intending to like defuse it, I said, okay, I have a wizagna, and then the gambinos are like, okay, that is pretty cute.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

That it that is a wagany.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

I'm telling you, I bit the shit out of my tongue, still hasn't recovered.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

I just also love the idea that like there's a a shootout and unfurling around you, and like you're like, oh this biscuit is too hot. Yeah. I can't taste the gnocchi.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

You're just like my mouth is just full of blood.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

You're just slowly sampling through the menu. It's just yeah, things get worse and worse. Yeah. Who matoes? Oh boy. Then Denzel Washington appears. I'll tell you what, I would like you know how it like for a while I feel like a lot of Italian restaurants were trying to ape uh Olive Garden. Like, because they had like, oh, the endless breadsticks, like Olive Garden, when you hear your family, like they they anytime someone does something like that, like every other restaurant has to like try to fucking you know where we're your family now. Oh, yeah, we're the family. Hey, come on over, like oh my ma when she was back in Brooklyn, she made uh the sauce. Yeah, like you know. Um fuck, what was I what was I saying? Like, so I was gonna say, if you had an Italian restaurant whose thing was that Denzel Washington was always in the restaurant staring menacingly at you.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

I don't know if people would like that. I mean, that's like a gimmick, maybe, but I don't think you'd have a lot of repeat customers.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Yeah, like that's the gimmick, and like you can't talk to him and he won't respond to you, but he will, he just sits in the corner, like with his fingers steepled, like up just under his nose, and he's just like looking at he's just like staring at you across the restaurant.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

And like I'd love it if like yeah, there was like a guy at the bar in a members only jacket who like looked at you when you came in and like kind of followed you, your his eyes follows you to your table, and part way through your meal, he'd just like get up and go in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

And then you're the you're done. And then it ends. Your day cuts to black, exactly. Journey starts playing.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

You wake up in another franchise. Yeah, Tony Soprano cuts to black, and then he wakes up in Skyrim.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Hey, you're finally awake. You're finally awake.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Where the fuck am I?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Trying to get some combacool, not cross the board.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

I just I'm just live in New Jersey. I'm just looking for I'm just looking for a good cannoli. I don't know. What do I know about dragons and such?

SPEAKER_03 7:46

Every conversation in the game just has his like heavy background breathing while Yarrow Ballgroof is like, yes, you must fight that.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

In this house, old frick Grey Cloak is a hero. End of the story.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

What would the shouts like the dragon shouts be like that Sopran Tony Soprano would use?

SPEAKER_00 8:06

You motherfucker! Don't have the makings of a varsity athlete.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

It's just abuse. It's just like angry slurs and like fucking rage.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Christopher!

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Christopher! This this is as far as we go. Alright. I'm I I gotta say, I'm I I think it's poor manners to be self-congratulatory, but I I just want to say I'm very pleased with where that where that all went. That was that was delightful. I mean, that's really I'm very happy to have put the idea of Tony Soprano and Skyrim out there.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yeah, I mean, there's probably already a mod for it. If there's not, well, I'm not gonna make it, but somebody should.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

In fact, I feel like I want the entire cast in there. Like Pauline, yeah, like Paul Leo. They fucking what they've got, they've got their operations in the back of like the la the laughing dragon or like the white horse in.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

Yeah, they have like no-show jobs in Whiterun somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

I told you, I told you I'm in waste man and mint and alchemy.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

I'm just an alchemist. Okay, shit. Alright, I I'm I'm getting too delighted about that.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Um well, we are here to discuss a film.

SPEAKER_02 9:35

We are, we are. Uh we're here to talk about the Brothers Grimm, which we'll just get it out of the way. This was one of Heath Ledger's final films. It was. And it's honestly an enormous treat. Uh before we say anything else, like Heath Ledger is kind of like a cinema like he's a crucial part of cinematic history, you know? Yeah, and at least at least partly on this uh podcast, we strive to recognize talent and contribution, and dare I say legendariness. Oh, yeah. And so, like, it is awesome to see like like I put in my notes, I said, a pleasure to meet you here. Like, it was a genuine delight because I did not know that Heath Ledger was in this movie. Yeah, because uh the reason I recommended this movie is because a couple of years ago I was really baked, uh just ridiculously baked, and I was on a good baked streak where like have you ever gotten like like toasted, and then every video you pick is just a fucking banger? Yes, like it's rare because I feel like I get the I feel like the opposite is more often the case, you know, where it's just like your algo right. You got yeah, yeah, like sometimes the algorithm rewards you and the algorithm rewarded me with a creepy ass scene from this movie, right? That stoned as I was, I thought was like borderline traumatizing. I was terrified.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

I thought I like so that so what ended up what ended what this movie ended up being is something else, you know? Like, yeah, I know this movie this movie ended up being very complicated, I would say. Uh absolutely very nuanced. Like I would say like I I absolutely would say nuanced with the caveat, I wouldn't say gracefully nuanced.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Well put. Okay, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Um and I do want to talk about all of this. There's a lot to talk about, but uh before we talk about this, I was I was wondering if I could just share a little a little bit about my life with you, you know. Yeah, no, I'm happy to hear it. I I know these uh you know these these early minutes of the episodes, we typically, you know, establish a little rapport. We are we are people who are interested in each other and each other's happy hour podcast, you know. It's a happy hour podcast, just cat catching up, catching up, playing playing softball with each other. Right. Real softball. I uh I was out last night. Uh I was enjoying myself.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Doing some vigilantism.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

No, no, no. I was I was I not I was I was I sometimes do do vigilantism and sometimes I go out drinking and I try to keep those separate, you know? Yeah like when you when you put them together and I'm real I'm real sad they just haven't done like in all the multiverses they haven't just done like what if the punisher was just fucking drunk all the time it somehow becomes so much worse. Yeah man it's awful there's like no morality anymore it's just it's just a crazy it's just an alcoholic maniac it's just not fucking nightmare like it ends with countless people dead and then like at the end it's like Spider-Man going oh god oh what made me what what made me think that was a good idea oh how did it get to this oh god like the Punisher's just like chugging mouthwash in a bathroom stall Punisher's just like fucking slamming and sanitizer he's like slamming he's like overtaking a bachelorette party and slamming Cosmos like he's uh he's on his motorcycle and he revs up next to one of those pedal bars and just like leaps aboard it bro like doing nothing I was I was not doing that I was not doing that uh the thing I meant to say is that I I paid for it this morning and like I didn't even have that much to drink you know I'll just it's just the fact of getting older that like it's not so easy to bounce back from drinking and uh I kind of felt like I was having a rough time last night because I had just two drinks which I thought was very reasonable sure and I'm like I you know what I'm gonna get out now and the bartender I said bartender could I close out and he's like oh I'm sorry dude I I already poured you another shot and I'm like alright well you know I've only had two drinks I'll I'll I'll do this shot I'll allow it sure I'll allow it like because you already poured it I don't believe I don't want to let that go to waste so right okay uh but then I'm like but then uh then he says all right but could you drink it quick and I'm like why and he slides the shot over to me and I see that it's one of those shot glasses with like a clever little slogan on it. Okay those can be like a you know a yeah a c a clever little catchphrase you know like how some how some shot glasses are like little yeah yeah yeah except this one said the glass that makes spiders come out of the wall if it's not empty and I'm not and I'm like and I'm I'm struggling to read it and like by the time I figure out what's going on someone is screaming. Yeah because there's spiders of course there's spiders and I'm like Jesus Christ right and like why would you ever feel why couldn't never mind well but like like I'm just saying there's spiders crawling over everywhere spiders little spiders a mix a mix dude a mix because there's like because like it's one of those situations where like it looks like the spiders are evolving at an uncomfortable rate like first it's just a bunch of little spiders and then like the bigger wolf spiders and then tarantulas. Yeah yeah and like about three minutes in like we're starting to see like dog sized spiders oh you you still hadn't had the shot well I'm embarrassed to say this but you know how like you know how like in a video game like you'll you'll like kind of freeze or panic you know and like no or zone out and like you'll forget well I'm just saying like I'm just saying like I was a little stunned. I didn't I thought that was just a funny little slogan.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

No.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

But I'm like okay okay so I finally I finally do it and I take the shot and I slide it away and I'm like okay fuck that's good all right so the spiders should ebb and sure enough the spiders they go back stop well they don't go back but at least they stop coming out okay progress. The thing is then the the scre the screaming doesn't stop. In fact it gets worse because soon I realize the spiders are screaming and I'm like what the fuck is going on? That's a twist and and uh the bartender he said oh sorry and like he holds up the shot glass and it says the glass that makes spiders scream if it's not empty.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

And he's filled it. Sorry to feel like this guy like the bartender was the problem.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Well that's the thing is like they said someone saw the shot you had and they thought they would like something so I made that for them. Like all right well we'll fucking give them the shot so we can they can slam it and let's fucking make the spider stop screaming. Like okay yeah well I I'm not sure where they went I I think they said they were going to the bathroom like irresponsible thing to order before you go piss yeah yeah but I mean like I'm not I'm not innocent. I'm not innocent. Like maybe he thought he was gonna have innocent in this though I think you asked for it I'm saying I'm saying like I'm not innocent in uh of uh of having ordered and and then um of and then going to the bathroom like I've done that before so like you don't want to be a dick about it. I'm not gonna go into the restaurant into the restroom and like hassle anyone about it.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

So I'm like all right we'll just drink instead.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah so so like I that's I try to just sit there and like you know just kind of because the spiders they're just screaming they're not biting anyone or doing anything howling yeah yeah and so but then it it gets too much and I'm just like and I take the shot and so the spiders stop screaming. But all at once they all bust out tiny little iPhones okay okay and and start like tapping away with their little with their little legs they tweeting yeah no they I see I was like alright now what the fuck's going on now and I immediately I look to the bartender right yeah because it's it's kind of locus of all this bad yeah yeah because like clearly he should be doing something different at this point. Right yeah and he's like and he's like oh I'm sorry I'm sorry dude he's got one of these gigantic bowls you know like those party bowls right have you ever been to a you ever been to a bar where like they'll give you like this enormous pitcher and like serve it to parties of like you know ten people or so I mean I didn't know that you served it to parties but yeah I f I don't know well all right so be being realistic and and diverting for a second. Yes how long do you think it would take you to finish a bow like cause I well I mean like you could chug a fish bowl of like margarita right but you'd be hammered but if I would have if I had like a fish bowl of margarita I would like nurse the hell out of that thing. Yeah yeah I would definitely I wouldn't want to chug it but like I would like I would like I would like start at eight in the morning and I would I would just like hope to finish it by like eight in the evening. I could get done with one of those like semi comfortably apart from getting hammered in like two and a half hours probably two and a half yeah yeah like I think you could do that and not especially if you had some water with you but yeah I'm just saying like I would just mean I would like find a nice buzz and then just like ride that for like twelve hours. Just cruising right yeah just cruising I mean I'm assuming like I to be fair like if it were my decision I would not have a party bowl of liquor all to myself like right but what if it was steel reserve though the only like catch is that it like you can't cool it back down. So the longer you take to drink it the more room temperature the steel reserve gets oh yeah that's a quandary oh man at that point you might as well just you you should try to get it done just get it done and then you know just hope for the best yeah like like yeah start like order a pizza at the same time you start drinking oh that's smart yeah and then one hope you're done by the time it arrives and then just slam the pizza and hope everything evens out. Yeah breakfast of champions but anyways at the bar I was at they had this big punch bowl yeah and it said and it said on it I mean of course you know where this is going it says the the the cup that makes spiders make rash stock decisions unless it's empty I mean how much spying power do they have well see that's the thing is like individually not much but all together that's a lot of spiders man like yeah for each they all got on and they all started like trading like crazy completely levised they crashed the market that's not good and like they have their own stock market or like ours well that's the thing is it started on the spider stock market that's PDR but then it engulfed both our stock market and the Nikkei index in Japan so oh fuck they got to the it quick it quickly got out of control yeah like like one of the spiders was from Tokyo. Oh shit yeah and he m he managed a small uh a small sake distribution company used to Used to, used to. Like he made it real rich, and then he lost everything, and he now he has to go work in a ramen shop.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Yeah, now that's on you. That's all off.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

And now I'm pitching to you. Okay. A slice of life sitcom. About a Japanese spider. I'm gonna pitch you, I'm gonna pitch it to you as this a reverse Isakai.

unknown 22:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Where a fantasy giant spider from a fantasy world gets killed and reincarnates in our world. He's still a spider.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

But like he's reincarnated in our world, and now he has to get a job. Because he's a big spider and he has speech. You know, he has reason. He's one of these he's one of these magic. So like, but the only place that will it turns out he's great at making soup. Like so he like servings. Yeah, yeah. So like he becomes the chef of a local ramen joint in Tokyo. Right. Uh, but but he's so horrifying that like people won't come to his shop unless he uh unless he's in the back. So he's gotta rebuild he's gotta rebuild his empire while not letting anyone have empire.

SPEAKER_03 23:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Well yeah, cuz and then he because you know he slowly works his way up to like owning a small sake distribution where he's like he like distributes local regional um sake, yeah, yeah, around various prefectures. A lot a lot of his business is honestly imports, it's from collectors. Right. Uh because you know the Western world, I wouldn't say sake is a widespread taste, no, but I would say it does carry a bit of elitism. So I I I would expect that a lot of wealthy people.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

So the spider is like serving a wealthy Western clientele. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

And it it's kind of like it's it's kind of as you can tell, like it's kind of like it's kind of about uh economics.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Like no, I I couldn't tell that actually it is fucking awful.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

I was gonna say because you know the spider loses his fortune and then has to rebuild by becoming a humble ramen chef.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

And like he began, he started as a fantasy spy. And then he just watches economic conditions and makes his wise investment. So it's like a manga that it's a manga that teaches you economics as you read it. Okay. That teaches you economic theory as you read it. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Um are there like sick fight scenes?

SPEAKER_02 24:44

No, it's it's it's it's more of a it's more of a slice of life.

SPEAKER_03 24:48

You can still have fight scenes in those. Look at fucking Sakamoto days, right? Well, yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

I guess okay, so the one example I know, but but like I'm just we're we're pushing it a lot, you know, with with fight scenes and like economic theory. And the spider. And the spy and the re it's a lot to ask an audience. Anyways, um, at some point they the the group the party that ordered the fish bowl finished. And I was just and but like I had to I like I couldn't get past the spiders until I mean that's there's a lot of questions. So I was so well I meant I mean I physically I couldn't get through the spiders until the punch bowl was finished, so I just had to hang out there. And you know, I I just had a couple more drinks, so yeah, today I have a today I have a headache. Uh and I'm just drinking water and I'm gonna power through it.

SPEAKER_03 25:41

Global economic markets are just in shambles because of the because of the spider bar with its cursed shot glasses. And it's a fun theme for uh limited uh visits, I think.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

It is, it's it's kind of like a culinary experience, similar to an Italian restaurant where Denzel Washington glares at you through a in fact it was that restaurant, and he was I was surprised he didn't do anything about the spiders. But then I thought, like, well, you know, there he's never been in a movie where he specifically uh is against spiders. Normally his antagonists are more human.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

What if like there was a restaurant you could go to where like there's like a one in five hundred chance that like when you order, Denzel will come over and like give you the shit yourself pinch, and you'll like violently shit yourself.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

So is that it or or is or is or is there an equal chance that like Denzel like you enter the restaurant and Destiny rolls uh one uh 500-sided dice, yeah, and all of the outcomes are Denzel related, and in one of them he makes you shit yourself, and in another one he reenacts the training day monologue with you.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

And and if you and and if you can uh uh the one where they're the one where they're in the diner. Okay, yeah. Yeah, and if you recite it back perfectly, Denzel grants you one wish. It's like it's like Dragon Ball. Denzel Ball Z. Denzel Ball Z. Alright, fuck. Uh do you want to talk about the brother's grip?

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Yeah, yeah, which you I would love to do.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

I would love to I recommended.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

Based on your experience with the horrifying gingerbread video, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:33

Yes. The the the clip I watched involved a young village girl getting spattered with mud and then her face disappearing and a glob of mud growing eyes and mouth and lips and like human lips. Yeah. And like pulling itself into a humanoid shape. Yeah, and then like chasing the faceless girl as she wanders blindly about the village, screaming, muffled, without a mouth.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

And then eventually the mud creature grabs her and like absorbs her and turns into the gingerbread man and dives down a well. Yep. And like all of this, all of this, like, makes uh most mo mostly makes sense. Like, but I thought that like out of context, that was fucking nightmarish. And I'm like, and so I recommended this movie, and it's an action comedy with a lot of flavors of horror. Yeah. And basically, Matt Damon and uh Keith Ledger play the brothers Grimm of the fairy tale authority. Of the fairy tale uh notoriety, yeah, and they go to a village in Germany. I know they're both. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Uh he's voiced in this film upon me. Plus, I have to redeem myself from uh American Ninja when I got to like a third of the plot because I got too sidetracked I fucked it up.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

I fucked it up on uh on dis on District B 13.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Like I got through everything except the nuclear bomb.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

You know, like that, but that's but that's the fun part about the two-minute recap. That's what makes it spiritually interesting, is that in two minutes you will talk about what is important to you, and that's that's a little that's a little insightful.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

I guess so.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

So alright. I'm gonna, as you know, we aren't in the business of recaps, but we do like our artful self-expression masterpieces known as the two-minute recap. So we we we acknowledge the the weird the stupidity in that, but yeah, there's a little uh it's too it's and it's there, but it's too late to change. It's too late. We already fired that cannon. Yeah, absolutely, and now it is canon.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Got 'em.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Nice. Uh so I'm going to time you.

SPEAKER_03 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Are you ready? Yep. I'm starting three, two, one, go.

SPEAKER_03 30:04

Alright, we open up in like a hovel in like I guess Victorian London or something, and there's like some kid dying. They need to get medicine. So, like, I guess like the kids, like slightly older brothers, like eight, get sent out to buy some fucking medicine, but he comes back with magic beans because he's a fucking moron. Obviously, the beans don't work, but then after that wonderful little intro, it smash cuts to credits, and you're like, oh damn, okay. Um, and then uh come into like the adult uh younger brother and his older brother, played respectively by Heath Ledger and Matt Damon, who are con artists, uh, who are going around like continental Europe convincing towns that they have like monster fairy tale problems and then using clever tricks and special effects in order to quote unquote solve the problems. Uh they get captured by a villainous Italian, um, who then takes them to a villainous Frenchman, who then makes them go to another town that is being haunted by actual monsters. And then they work with Lena Hetty, who is a woodsman type, um not a lumberjack, but woodsman, um, to you know, take down the monsters, which end up actually being like a I guess a mystical evil queen who's trying to like use the powers of like 12 different chicks to like make herself pretty or make herself Monica Bellucci. Um something like that, right? Um at some point the the French bad guys in general eats a kitten and lights the forest on fire. Um the brothers have like a whole brothers kind of like fight, but then you know they overcome it with the power of fucking brotherhood, and then a wolf man tackles a mirror out the window and that kills the evil queen. Um that's like I think I nailed pretty much most of it. How much time have I got left?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

You got you got 20 minutes. You wanna I mean 20 seconds?

SPEAKER_03 31:44

Peter Stormare plays the Italian torturer, who is actually a delight for me. He totally doesn't fit that well. Um, sometimes he does, because this movie has a very two distinct tones, which is like the con artist, dark humor type shit, and then kind of weird, more straight-laced fantasy stuff, but still with creepy visuals, like the gingerbread man and a horse that eats someone. Oh, sorry. I think I covered the most like weird stuff there. I think you got it all there.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

I think you got it all there. Uh, standouts to me was the Queen wants to use the power of 12 different chicks to make herself beautiful. Yeah, I don't know why that's so funny to me, but like I mean, I think it was relatively accurate. Yeah, the queen wants to use the power of 12 different chicks.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Yeah, to put them in coffin like beauty-making coffins.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Like, like, like in this movie, the the primary antagonist is an evil queen, and she lives at the top of the tower. So, like, I was thinking of like uh the story of like Al, her downstairs neighbor, who's just renting it. Like, ah, geez, she's getting 12 different chicks to make a I should have asked about the coffins when I rented the I should have asked about the crypts.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Yeah. The fucking crits. Especially the plural one is understandable, but 12 crypts on a property, I'm gonna have questions.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

The location is two prime, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:07

I mean, how often do you find like a mystical tower in the middle of like the haunting German woods?

SPEAKER_02 33:11

It's a secret to get in the head in real estate. You only rent from the cursed properties. I've been everywhere. Evil towers, haunted manors. I was in one of them spooky apartments.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

I camped in the forsaken battlefield.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

I camped on the forsaken battlefield. This kind of sounds like Stanley's ghost. I'm sorry, take it, take a drink.

SPEAKER_03 33:36

I'm paying for my sins in the world of the flesh by undertaking these damned journeys.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

I'm paying for my crimes against artisan artists.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

Oh, we're gonna get some mail for that.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

I wandering the afterlife, seeking to put to rest those who do who I wronged in life. Who are damned by my actions. This is Stan Lee's brimstone.

SPEAKER_02 34:03

Oh my god. Um I found yeah, I found your uh your recap kind of haphazard and all over the place, but also I feel like that's very accurate because I described this film to you as a piece of orc technology from like Warhammer 40k where like it's a bunch of different movies all like strapped together, but like not like like emphasized strapped there. Like these are not like artfully sewn together. These are not like yeah, these are like duct taped together, and like it's a fucking it's like a fucking run-down cartoon ass car, yeah. Where like the kind that go like you know, and like yeah, and spit water everywhere, and Heath Ledger and uh Matt Damon are driving it and lean ahead is like a Model T engine in like a Hearse that's also been modded to be a lowrider, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's it's got like and you know, like it's it's it's a goofy kind of car where like when they need when they put the accelerator down, it gets up on its hind wheels and starts running. Oh like what I'm trying to see. Fuck that's a that's a fun image, isn't it? Yeah, the car gets up on its hind wheels and then we the tires start bending like feet, and it's just like I'm trying to say the movie kind of runs on cartoon logic.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Very much so.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Uh and sometimes it really works, and sometimes it really doesn't. And this is this movie uh has and tell me if you agree with this assessment the parts that are strapped together are some extremely visceral nightmarish horror that is like uh that is among some of the spookiest shit I've seen. Uh that's one part. Another part is excellent acting and chemistry on behalf of our three leads, Matt Damon, Heath Ledger, Lena Hetty. All of them do really fucking well and they have excellent chemistry together. That's another part. Um another part is some extremely mediocre action comedy. Sort of like a much less graceful Pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah, I agree with that. Like like I would say some swashbuckling that doesn't quite fit.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

It doesn't quite buckle.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

It doesn't quite buckle. Like our swashes are just out there flapping in the breeze. Looks disgusting. Um Christian, look at them. Out there flapping toys. I'm sorry, that got that got way more aggressive than I wanted. Um uh but uh the swashbuckling doesn't quite work because for some reason no one really associates Germans with swashbuckling.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

For some reason?

SPEAKER_04 37:34

I think for one yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

What is it? Well, it's obviously the techno scene in uh Berlin in the late 80s, right? It was edgy and gritty, but it wasn't swashbuckling.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

No, that that is true. Swashbuckling has sort of a carefree.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

No, what were you thinking of? Did you have a different thing in mind?

SPEAKER_02 37:56

No, well, like, I mean, I was going to say that like you know, like Germans are they're business like by by reputation, they are very orderly and buckled down and have their heads on straight, and most of the time. Most of the time. Most of the time. Most of the time. Um, but they are they are normally a very like uh I don't want to use the word uptight, but I will. Uh a pretty like, you know, buckled down society. So like I don't I don't picture them like I don't picture and like I think swashbuckling requires a certain that's it. Swashbuckling is synonymous with an association with improvisation, and nobody associates improvisation with Germans, and I think Germans like take it as an insult. I think that's why they don't do improv comedy in Germany. Yeah, it's it's like the last time they tried.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Someone in the house goes, that's ridiculous. You're just making this up as you go.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Five words of Pillsbury Doughboy be at a sex club. Come on, it's not even Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Let's get out of here. Yeah, let's go across the street and see a watch get made. We'll get some beers and why COC watches get repaired.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

So there was not a lot of uh not a lot of swashbuckling. Uh so the action comedy did not quite work, and then there was some uh I'm gonna say borderline offensive depictions of the French and to a lesser extent the Italians.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah. Um Germans, like they I mean, they didn't make their towns look very appealing. I'll say that.

SPEAKER_02 39:42

Uh I guess I guess we should just get into it.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Um everybody was catching. I wouldn't even say sprays, everybody was catching shots in this movie, just blasting each other.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Like the thing this was this was a field full of Dick Cheneys and on a hunting trip together. Yeah. Um but I think I think we're far enough gone that you can make jokes about Dick Cheney.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

R.I.P. King.

SPEAKER_04 40:18

That's so stupid.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. And he was you were so fucking stolem about it. See you at the crossroads. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

What I'm trying to indicate is inter-European tensions.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Yeah, yeah. Like what I'm trying to indicate by all of this uh is that I'm saying that the movie is kind of it's it's not elegant. There are parts of it that are really good, and those parts remain really good. And like uh I think my first experience was kind of kind of says it all. I saw the first exposure to this movie was completely out of context. Right, the ginger out of context, yeah, out of context. It was fucking horrifying.

SPEAKER_03 41:13

Yeah, in context it's cool.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

It's like uh it's still it's still scary, it's still very effective, but not as effective. Because right after that scene, uh fucking is his name Jonathan Price.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Yeah, well, the French guy, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Yeah, the like Jonathan Price putting on a really outrageous French accent eats a kitten and like he samples it. He's all right, so to be clear, the kitten is in a torture chamber. No one's quite sure why. A bad guy kicks the kitten.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

He gets startled. Peter Storm.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

He gets startled and he by panicking, and he kicks a kitten into a blender. That's all what is basically a Napoleonic blender. Yeah, and it spatters out, and part of it gets on Jonathan Price's face. He's playing a corrupt French general governing uh Germany.

SPEAKER_03 42:08

Uh crazy reversal there.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Crazy reversal. Like I I said that that's kind of a twist. Uh but he uh and then a bit of kitten gets flecked on his face, and he takes it and licks it and goes, hmm, like it's the most cartoonishly bizarre thing you've ever seen.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

Somebody did have like specifically like a problem with the French, I think. Somebody involved in making it.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yes, like it's I I think it's fair to say very rarely do people feel all that bad for the French.

SPEAKER_03 42:40

You felt bad for the French in this one?

SPEAKER_02 42:42

I I kind of did. I'm like, I like as I was watching this, like it's a lot of British actors putting on like outrageous French. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Everybody involved in that was they had a British guy playing a cowardly Italian kick a kitten into a blender, and then a British guy playing a shit-eating fucking French guy, like sample the uh fucking vaporized kitten.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

And again, if you said that out of context, that sounds like some extremely specific anti-French propaganda.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

Like, yeah, it really does. Like, I didn't even know if Chat GPT would render that.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yeah, so I was just I so like when I was watching this, I was just like, I was like, I'm not a guy that feels all that bad for the French all that often. Like, you know, nothing again. I don't feel that much about the French at all, except uh a fascination. Except a fascination for a lot of key moments in their history, like that is genuinely cool. But uh I like I was watching that rendition of uh French of N the Napoleonic French, and I was like, that's outrageous, man.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Like yeah, not even a Frenchman in the room when they were filming that. Nobody knows like well, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Like the only the only Frenchman in the room was tied to a chair with his eyeballs.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

And just like screaming, like, ooh, ooh, he's getting forced to watch this mockery of his name and his people.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah, they didn't actually show it, but like the entire ground in that scene was just French flags they were threading on.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Is like putting high drops in.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

He's just some random. No blanking.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

He's just some random French smoke they targeted.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

But yeah, this this movie does feel like peculiarly anti-French in some areas. Then again, uh it's only it it was certain this was 2005. So like for one, the French, like offending the French was kind of in vogue at the time. Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Well, especially when they probably started making this movie in probably 2004.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

Yes. Uh as you recall, uh after 9-11, France was famously opposed to the Iraq war. Uh and we just we couldn't stop busting their balls over it.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

We had a coalition of the fucking willing. Did it for the love of the game.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Jesus Christ. Um but uh so it it was in vogue to make fun of the French, and also I feel like the Napoleonic French specifically are kind of they were they've kind of been a safe bet for a uh for villains. And while in that they're not necessarily specifically wicked, but like you know, they're aggressive, territorial, mongering, yeah, warmongering, yeah, expansionist had the uniforms, they weren't like the color scheme was wrong, but they all had like crazy uniforms that they all had. Yeah, like crazy uniforms, and you know, like theirs was yeah, and and you know, they basically they basically steamrolled Europe, so like yeah, fair enough, fair enough, and like you know, pretty much completely unprovoked. Like, you know, fuck off.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

I'm gonna take Russia, and Russia was like, take what we burned all of it. Good luck. Yeah, good luck at all. Then the French discovered the concept of a very cold winter.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Yeah, God, we you know, shout out to Russian winter. I mean, I think undefeated game recognized game. I I I should not say game recognized game. I have I have I I don't think I have done anywhere anything as Russian winter.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

I have not military forces across centuries.

SPEAKER_02 46:34

Two entirely separate uh European military expansionists.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the French, I mean, they are relatively easy targets.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

This historical I want to give this, I want to give this movie a little shout-out. I do think that's like legitimately a cool setting. Uh like Napole, like French occupied Germany. That's yeah, that's rare. That's rare. Like, and that's kind of why that's kind of one of the reasons why I was a little irritated by the anti-Frenchness. Uh just because they brought culture to those people. Well, no, like I actually would have I legitimately would have been interested in like how that operates, you know? Like uh like I would have really liked to see the the actual day-to-day doings of of that. Yeah, how does how yeah, I would have I would have loved a more grounded look at uh at uh the at the state, the the the how at military occupied Germany, because like I had I've literally never thought about that until I saw this movie, and but I was like, yeah, how did the French run Germany? Like how did the French run most of Europe under Napoleon? Like what we still don't know. Well, I'm sure we do though. Like that's gotta be that I mean, yeah, we've got to do that. Yeah, I'm I'm this movie, like, like uh I do think like I'm gonna get this out of the way because I'm gonna mention it a lot. Okay, I think this movie very much wanted to be Pirates of the Caribbean. And like you can see it trying to ape it at numerous occasions.

SPEAKER_03 48:06

Okay. What uh what examples? I don't disagree with what examples come to mind for you.

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Well, for one, it's a buddy comedy, uh, in which a uh in which a female lead uh intervenes and introduces some tension. Yeah, it's got so it's got some folklore-rooted uh mythology, uh, it's got some supernatural fantasy elements, it's got a lot of attempts at levity and humor and kind of wry sarcasm. Yeah. Uh it's got and like I said, it's got some swashbuckling efforts, but uh, you know, they don't quite land. Yeah, which is got like a over-the-top villain, secondary villain who kind of like I think the I think the uh but I you know like they the the English in Pirates of the Caribbean, they were a pretty grounded menace. Like so like I would have loved to see that in this. Like I would have loved to see the French be a grounded menace. They can still be bad guys, but like I would have loved to see them like actually taken seriously. And like uh there's a theme in this movie about how the old world of fairy tales and myth is shrinking, and in its like death throes, it's taking people with it. Uh and like, you know, there's this image where the French burn down the haunted fort. Like, you know, peasant the whole thrust of this movie is that uh Matt Damon, Heath Ledger are the brothers Grim. They are like Scooby-Doo level, where they they like convince people they're haunted and then exercise. Yeah, they're con they're con men, uh fucking to wit, uh Jonathan Price, who is the governor in uh Pirates of the Caribbean, he plays the French general. Yep, and Mackenzie Crook, who I feel so bad for the dude, like he seems like a legitimately good actor, but he's always gonna play that fucking like awkward British goon. Like that's just uh Pirates of the Caribbean ruined that guy's career. Pigeon. Yeah, yeah, pigeonholed him because now he's just he's just that. He plays the same character in this one where he's just like a jittery goon. Like uh, but France catches them conning people and says, Listen, we're gonna put you to death unless you go to this village where 11 girls have disappeared from and figure out what's going on. And like, okay, I'll buy that. That's a great thing. But you know, eventually 12 girls disappear into the haunted forest, and France just figures, like, alright, we're just gonna burn the whole fucking forest.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Like that is one girl too many.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Yeah, but it's presented as very like goofy and like sadistic, like oh, we all see it. You're like, watch your beloved forest burn. Like, it's very villainous. I I thought it would have been very cool uh to see like a more grounded French forest. There's they're just like simply not humoring this fairy tale bullshit. They're like, Yeah, like, no, fuck you. Like, there's no ghosts out there. We're just gonna burn the fucking forest if it's such a problem.

SPEAKER_03 51:06

They just fucking shoot the gingerbread man to death with muskets.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm kind of tight, actually. That would have been fucking badass that the gingerbread man pulls out his own gun, like fuck you, becomes an episode of the wire.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Yeah, dude. The horse like uh eats the the village girl and they just blow it in half with a cannon. They just whole fucking bored, just blasts it, spits everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

I do want to shout that out because again, the uh one of their horses gets cursed and just eats it. There's this horrifying scene where this horse like spits out cobwebs and entangles this young girl and then swallows her whole.

SPEAKER_03 51:48

Yeah, and like unhinges its fucking jaw and just rolls.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

And this is a fucking horse. And then you see her not supposed to do that. You see her screaming as she disappears down its gullet, yeah, man. And then like the horse swollen with her, just starts riding away, and it's fucking it's nice, it's so horrifying, and it's so good. And then like right after that, we get like more like ho ho, we will toss your z kittens. Yeah, like it's it's it's it's ridiculous, and that's what stops this movie from being like uh yeah, it should have stuck with one, you think? Uh, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Like one tone.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 52:27

I always leaned more into one than just seesawing rapidly between two brick.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

Here's the thing, here's the thing, here's what makes it interesting, and this is why I use the orc technology part, because like now that it's all been strapped together, you can kind of see how it works.

SPEAKER_04 52:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:43

Like, because this movie is an action comedy and the horror parts are done totally straight faced, yeah, the horror parts have this enormous impact. Because they are so totally jarring. But if the but if this had become an action horror, it wouldn't hit as hard because then the brothers Grimm would be like capable dudes. It'd be like one of those, like, oh uh, you know, it'd be more like Blade, you know? And like to be to be fair, Blade fucking rules. But like not every movie needs to be blade. White blade. White blade the white blade white blades at the end of it where at the end of it, Wesley Snipes' ghost emerges.

SPEAKER_00 53:26

He just kills both of them.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Kills both of them. No, I like yours better. I like yours better. But you know what I'm trying to say. Like this movie, I do kind of appreciate how they take this angle where um Heath Ledger plays Jake uh Jacob uh bean uh Jacob Grimm.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

Yeah, Jacob Grimm.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

Yeah, like like at the start, like I do really and like we shouted out, the the chemistry between these actors is great.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Yeah, really grim opening, though.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

Yeah, like the opening. Hey. But like the opening is uh their sister dies because Heath Ledger, as a child, sells the family cow for magic beans. Yeah, they are he gets scammed and their sister dies. And so Matt Damon in the future is like, you gotta stop these fucking fairy tales, man. That you fuck killed our sister.

SPEAKER_03 54:20

Yeah, someone tries to serve beans in a tavern they're at, and he just like the face to the fire. He's like, No beans. No beans.

SPEAKER_02 54:32

If Stallone had directed this, that's what he he would have done.

SPEAKER_03 54:35

Drowns somebody in a thing of fucking pigeons.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Like, and then he just like looks around the tavern like I don't like beans.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

Or like he uh like opens up a thing of propane, is like might have some gas tomorrow and flicks a match inside and it all blows up.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Um but like that's a that's a solid motivation. Like they fucking suffer a personal tragedy due to Heath Ledger's obsession with folklore, which is a crazy sentence to say. It is like if you stop to think about it, it it it kind of translates numerous directions.

SPEAKER_00 55:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

Um but what I'm trying to say is like that chemistry works well, and because that chemistry works well, uh they they do really well as kind of like uh incompetent bumblers, like well-meaning, you know. Like and that was also big in uh Pirates of the Caribbean, you know, like uh Jack Sparrow. Jack Sparrow was that was and like I do want to give a shout out because that was like before it became insufferable, that was legitimately pretty cool to see like a an action hero who was legitimately bad at action. Like that fucking that that was pretty clever, and I think that's sort of what they were trying to go for here, but there was a lot of aping and it didn't quite pan out. Uh but like so that that's why it's so interesting to me, is because uh the horror hits well because the rest of it is kind of an action comedy, and the action comedy works well because the actors have chemistry, but like there's something that's not quite completing that circuit, you know?

SPEAKER_03 56:26

Yeah, I feel like they're leaning more into like somewhat more traditional heroic tropes toward the end, really weakened. Yes, heroic fantasy tropes, I should say.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

I think that's I think that's what it might be, is like they're trying to try to subvert tropes while celebrating them at the same time, and it doesn't quite work. Yeah, yeah. Like uh I I and you know, I I can see why because Pirates of the Caribbean kind of does that. It kind of like has all these like swashbuckling tropes, but it does something a little different with them. So I can see what they were trying to do, but like uh this allegedly there was uh some studio interference in this one. Uh because Terry Gilliam is apparently kind of has a very distinct style, and you can kind of see it through see it in some of these sequences. Yeah. But then there's some sequences that just feel like I I I think before uh before we started uh the podcast um and after after we had after we'd pitched a fictional series about a little leaguer that get that gets wrapped up in a mafia betting ring.

SPEAKER_03 57:38

Yeah. Um Chester Harrington or something.

SPEAKER_02 57:41

Chester Henderson is is a chubby little leaguer who accidentally accidentally loses a match and costs the Yakuza an enormous millions of dollars.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

And he has to go to Japan for the World League little series or little league world series. And you know, it's now it's even higher stakes.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

Now the stakes are even higher. They're gonna cut his fingers off. We'll talk about that another time. But um, but uh while we were while we were pre-gaming, uh I talked, I said this movie is kind of like a car with two people fighting over the steering wheel.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

That gets up on its hindwheels and runs when you hit the Not button.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

That should have been a fast of the Furious.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Yeah. For some reason, I'm imagining it sprouting like huge muscled arms as well and like pumping those all the way.

SPEAKER_02 58:38

I'm picturing like one of these. I want to see like Vin Diesel driving some goofy ass fucking cartoon car where like where like it deploys marbles and oil spills and shit.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

That's stupid shit. Like I guess I want to I guess I'm saying I want to see Vin Diesel in Mario Kart.

SPEAKER_03 58:59

Vin Diesel Kart?

SPEAKER_02 59:00

I want him to have beef with Donkey Kong. I want there to be some tension there.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Yeah. Like background lore for Mario Kart?

unknown 59:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

You've got like voice memos that describe like the backstory as you're driving.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

It's an open world RPG as well. Where you have to figure out why Vin Diesel is beefing with Donkey Kong.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

Yeah, they're branching story paths.

SPEAKER_01 59:29

And what what's Peach got to do with it?

SPEAKER_02 59:34

And she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, hey Vin. Wait, no, what what's what's his what's his name in the Fast and Furious?

SPEAKER_03 59:44

Oh, Dominic Toretto.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

She's like, hey Tom. And he's like, Princess.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

You ready hits the asphalt, and then Mario's like, that's my bitch!

SPEAKER_00 59:58

And Luigi's like, calm down, bro. He's good at racing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

He's not worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

You should settle this on the track.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

Yeah, fucking Bowser is like, you gotta settle this on the course, boy.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

You never had me. You never had your cart to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

You never had your cart to begin with.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Oh my god. Um I want to see Vin Diesel in cartoon situations being himself. Like Yeah, yeah, of course. Um I've I totally forgot what I was gonna say, man. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

I got you're good. We you've mentioned it before the uh pause. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

It's it like you can kind of arguing over the car, yeah. You can kind of feel the parts of this movie that are studio interference and the parts of this movie where they are the director's whimsical vision. Yeah. And like some of the things.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

The horse, that was all Gilliam.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

The horse feels like Gilliam, the fucking the gingerbread man shit, that feels like Gilliam. Uh all the supernatural shit seem it which is really good. Like, it's fucking crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:09

Uh visual effects aren't phenomenal, but given the time, it's like it's understandable, you know. A lot of the time the visual effects are in low light environments. So, like I'm talking about CGI specifically.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

You know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna occasionally on this podcast, we get more artsy than fartsy, and I'm I think I'm gonna invoke that card.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Uh I think it's obviously the CGI is not as good as it could have been. We all know that, but like I think it's worth it to look at how they used it. And like a lot of it, a lot of it they used more for suggestion, I feel. Like when the horse swallows the kid, you just see it in silhouette and it looks fucking horrifying.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:52

Uh, and then you just see a glimpse of that kid like disappearing down the horse's gullet. And like used sparingly like that, the CGI is actually not too bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

And like you get this, like uh you know, obviously, spoilers for everything. Basically, what happens is there's long ago a Christian a Christian king came and burned down a lot of the forest. Christianized it. Christianized Germany, and then he built a big tower that he put his queen in, and surprise, she's Rapunzel, she grows out her hair. In retaliation for burning down the forest, the the the spirits of the forest, the people of the forest, whatever, you know, the goofy forces of the forest send plague. Uh but the the queen, I think, does a spell with her magic mirror where she gains eternal life, but she doesn't gain eternal youth. So she just continues to age for like 600 years.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

Yeah, and her hair just continues to grow. And like that's that's kind of a neat subversion on Rapunzel, so that's cool. Uh and she's doing this ritual, like all the twelve girls are being stolen and put in put in crypts or like stone coffins that line the the tower like a clock. And when the when the twelfth one is put in place and there's a lunar eclipse, the queen gets her beauty. She turns back into Monica Bellucci, yeah. She turns back into Monica, she's wear Balucci. Yeah. You're out with you're out with your you're out on a date, I gotta tell you. Years ago. Years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:32

I was bitten by Monica Bellucci.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Years ago, I was backpacking in Italy.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

I was bitten by Monica Bellucci.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

And on the evening of a full moon, I was bitten by Monica Bellucci.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:44

I mean, that sounds awesome, honestly. If I'm on a date as a chip, you can turn into Monica Bellucci.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

I will become a monster. Well, you must escape me. The only if necessary, the only thing that can stop me is a good bottle of nice canti. Or like I don't I don't I don't know, like a a pepper sandwich.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:04

A pepper sandwich, okay, sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

I we're seeing the rumor. We're spreading the rumor right now that Monica Bellucci loves a she's like a cryptid, like a ware creature. Yeah, like you have like she's lurking in the she's lurking in the wilds of Italy, and if if you if she bites you, you turn into her. I mean that's that's how she stays so young. Uh young lady. But yeah, the queen is doing that. She plays the evil queen, she's got a magic mirror that she uses to ensorcil Lena Hetty's uh dad.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

Yeah, he starts simping for her hard enough that he turns into a werewerson, not a were Bellucci.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:43

Have you ever simped over someone so hard you turn into a werewolf? I mean, that's a new I'm starting. I'm sorry. My mind just instantly leapt to like an incel werewolf. Fucking bitches.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

Incel wolf. Only like vampires. Real men have hair.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:10

It's just like some fucking looks maxing werewolf. It's like, oh, you've got an elongated jaw, bro. That's what that's why you can't get bitches.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:19

You're not looks maxing it on the full moon.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:21

Your lower jaw extends beyond your upper jaw. Gives you this fucking wow-looking motherfucker.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

Yeah. Like I consider myself a Sigma werewolf. I'm actually like equal to an alpha, but I'm like outside.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

But I'm different, and it's I'm I'm unpopular by choice.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:38

Like an alpha, but like I'm a loner alpha, which is like even quicker.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Loner Alpha. I'm like an alpha if you didn't have friends or success.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:45

Like, I'm just a guy who misunderstands pack dynamics. I don't know about you, Brian.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

I am I am autistic.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:51

Yeah. And I also didn't do very much reading on wolves.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

I don't I don't understand social situations, and I don't understand wolves. That's just what I'm trying to tell you.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

Yeah. I'm trying to use wolf-based metaphors. It's clearly not coming across.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:11

I'm just gonna be open about it. I've clearly I'm I I'm fucked up. I fucked up. I don't know how, but I fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Imagine like sending like an incel like to a fucking uh furry convention. He's just like, what the fuck? These wolves are all like they're all so gay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

What if the what if the incel like puts on a fursuit to like infiltrate and own these these freaks? But then the and the anonymity turns him on. Well turns him on, but also like gives him a sense of self and he's like, Oh, I see now. And like it kind of opens his eyes, and he like heartwarming. It's kind of like uh fucking the last samurai.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

Okay. Oh with but with furries and Tom Cruise plays an incel.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:07

But he's gonna like decapitate a sexy giraffe and an honor killing at the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

A bitter incel who's been shunned from from society.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:17

And Ken Watanabe is shock bat, and that's his persona. He's an electric bat.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:27

Okay, I mean that's there are worse ones for sure. At least he's got a leak. Starts moving away from his friends on internet forums that shall not be named.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

He rejects his old ways of life.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

Becomes embroiled in furry politics. Alright, shit. I love that. I love that. Tom Cruise, if you're out there, sir.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

We got a project for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

I actually don't know what Ken Watanabe has done in a while. I hope he's still getting work. I love that guy.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:00

He's a DJ now. Right? Isn't that fucking a crazy twist?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

That rules!

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

No, he's not. He's not, but it would be funny if he was. Yeah, I I thought I was like toe in the line with that one, but I'm glad I got you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:12

I want him to be a DJ and like play really slow music. And like nobody he just brings down the the the atmosphere so much and nobody says anything. Yeah, DJ can what and not he just keeps inexplicably getting booked for parties.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:33

I mean, I'd fucking book him, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:35

Yeah, like because you think like, oh wow, DJ can want, and then he shows up and like plays spoken word poetry with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:42

Yeah, he's wearing like a sweatsuit.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

He's wearing like a sweatsuit, but like he makes you buy his vitamin supplements afterwards.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

Like vitamin supplements for him or Ken Watanabe branded supplements.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

Ken Watanabe branded uh a dash o'ken is what it's called. They've all got his face on the bottle. And they've got weird names like Omegum. Omegium Marziprone. Marziprone. Kenwatanabe, if you're listening. We have a business idea for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:19

I was thinking of him as a DJ because like Idris Elba, you know, actually I believe is a DJ who performs under the name DJ Idris Elba. Isn't it fucking perfect? Sam's dying right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

There's literally nothing funny about that except that like in my head he's going go fever and he's like, no one will ever know. Like if I in my head's gonna make him anonymous. Like in my head, I just instantly casted like an Idris Elba led naked gun movie where he's like a cop and he's like, I gotta assume a pseudonym to infiltrate this club scene.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:10

He's got like the you know how Dead Mouse wears the giant fucking he's wearing one of those, but it's just his own head, like a huge version of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

He's like comes to the he comes to the nightclub entrance and like he says, let me in, it's Detective Idris Elba. Like, get out of here, cop, come back with a warrant. And he's like, okay. And then he leaves and he comes back with his own head, like, open up, it's DJ.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:35

Idris Elba. Oh shit, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:36

Oh shit, get in here. Like, they know it's his fucking name.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:39

He bashes his big head on the door frame as he's walking in.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:42

Oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:45

Things like three feet fucking tall. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

I have no idea what point I was originally trying to make. I'm so sorry. We I take responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:00

We were we were on like last samurai somehow.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:03

I'm sorry, I don't know how this happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:08

Oh, you're talking about werewolves, and then you know what? We don't need to track the etymology.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

You know what? We're just I think what we need to do is just let it be. Just whatever we were trying to do, we just gotta accept that we're in over our heads here. Oh no, just we're just gonna let that lie. Let's move on. I do I do want to talk about because we really have to say, and this is what makes it so frustrating the leads are incredible. The acting is incre but that's that's but see that's the thing. That's what makes it so frustrating. Heath Ledger is this very heartwarming uh yeah, vulnerable character who just wanna give him a hug.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:56

Give him a fucking hug.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:58

He's wounded, he's traumatized, he's carrying a lot of weight, but want to gas him up a little bit. Yeah, yeah, and like he expresses the pain very well of not being sensible and that causing rifts within him.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:13

So he's like looking longingly at this tin of uh Bush's baked beans, like the forbidden love.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:21

It's just a scene where he's naked in his room and like caressing a giant can of baked beans. I know, I was gonna say, like, there's a can of baked beans on the fucking dresser, and he's like slowly approaching it with a can opener, and then it's it it his hand starts shaking, and he he drops it and like collapses into the fetal position crying. Um I'm sorry. Uh I am I refuse to get off topic again. I am going to try so fucking hard. I feel I feel so fucking bad about how far that derail went. Um But Heath Ledger gives a magnificent performance as one as the more like lofty, dreamlike, you know, goofy, whimsical, childlike, the the funny guy to Matt Damon straight man. Matt Damon is kind of a sleazy ladies' man. He's got but he's got charisma. Like it's Matt Damon, you know, like he's fucking he's good at what he does. And he comes off very charismatic, and they have this great chemistry together. Like, it is legitimately wonderful to see them acting together because my god, like had we been fortunate enough to still have Heath Ledger with us, like you could have sold a series. Not necessarily this one, but like you could have sold, like you could have sold Matt Damon and Heath Ledger as collaborators, like they played so well together.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:49

Lethal Weapon reboot.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:51

Lethal Weapons, they would have been like Well, I mean, that's the thing, is like I I guess what I'm trying to say is like I've I'm a little sad because this movie kind of wasted that that potential, you know? And like still that potential comes so through so well because it's legitimately such a great uh chemistry between them. Yeah, yeah. And like they're they're they're wonderful together. And uh I'm sad that they didn't get a better script uh movie with a little less studio interference, because like that could have been something really special.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:27

Like if we're gonna do like a if I'm gonna do like a tortured analogy, it's like um you know you go to a nice Italian place, Denzel's in the corner, members only guys at the bar.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

You you you tip you tip your your drink to him and he just he doesn't look. If he doesn't move, that's how you know things are going well. If he doesn't move, like if he moves, that's a problem. Yeah, it's a problem not for him, not for him, not for you, not for him, but for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:51

Like you're gonna have some entanglements you didn't plan on.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:54

Welcome to Denzel Garden. Oh no. When you're here, you're on the razor's edge. Yeah, got unlimited fists. When you're here, you're on the edge, buddy. You're very close. Like, yeah, when you're here, you're very close.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

Yeah, but it's like you go to like Denzel's house of fists or whatever, and like yeah, you order the tollutelli or whatever, and then the gambinos are pulling their guns, it's all getting you know fraught, and then you get you get the the tollini and your your tongue hurts because you bit it earlier. But um the food, man, you can look at those ingredients and it's like handmade little pastas and fucking like truffles. They like they like had a great pig that shot the pig after he dug it up. But like how's this clear?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

The secret is what makes it delicate.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:42

Exactly. Like you they can't have any witnesses.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:44

They didn't even eat the pig, they just buried it out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:47

Yeah, yeah. That like whole area around those trees is just a massive pig graveyard.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:51

They fucking they fucking casinoed it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:54

Yeah, they just walk out and just shoot him in the top of the head and dump him in the house.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:58

Shoot him in a cornfield.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

Shit out of him with baseballs. Sorry, sorry. To be clear, I'm not laughing at the I'm not laughing at the idea of people beating up a helpless animal with baseball bats. I'm laughing at the idea of an animal becoming embroiled with the mob.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:17

To an extent that they have to do that too. Like they must have really fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:21

Like, I think I think it's a Simpsons principle where they proved that like getting unintentionally involved with organized crime is pretty fucking funny. Like not in real, not in real life, but like as and the more unlikely you are to get involved in organized crime, the funnier it is.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:40

Yeah. But imagine like you get those like special truffles dug up by the now murdered pig. Um, you know, you got like it's not a ton of sauce, but you can cle clearly tell it's like just the perfect amount of like vodka sauce or whatever, right? Um, they got some like a little bit of parsley on there. It's looking good. It's looking good. And then the manager walks over. After the chef has sent out your meal, the manager walks over, just dumps a whole fucking tub of ragooo on that motherfucker. He's like, Yeah, I figured you'd want that. Everybody wants ragu.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no like subtlety. He's just like, you love it's like, yeah, it's like, oh, I love this sauce. Like, have some more sauce.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:14

Like all the sauce. All of the sauce. Yeah. So now you got this like great, all these great ingredients that are now just slathered in fucking ragu. Yes, like no hate to ragu.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:25

I mean, I feel like I'm gonna get some mail from those guys, but I feel like you're gonna get mail from the UN because I will admit that analogy was like tortured very heavily tortured. Like, like that metaphor bordered on a war crime, but but I I get your I get your I get your idea, and like I agree with you. Um it was just it was such a struggle to uh to enjoy all the fine ingredients through that big s layer of sauce, and that's a shame. But even then, like I guess it's more tragic because it's not that you can just only taste the sauce, it's just that's mostly what you can taste. Because like Lena Hetty, I gotta give a shout out. I gotta give a shout out.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:13

Yeah, you referred to her as uh as the goat.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:16

She is the goat. Like, we gotta be fucking real here. Goat of cheekbones, cheekbones, sharp chins, razor, razor honed eyebrows, like fucking. I don't I'm not I'm sincerely not trying to be mean when I say that. She is a sharp woman.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:34

Like No, yeah. You can be on a company.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:37

She carries that energy so well. I got I gotta give out, I gotta give, I gotta give some uh fucking uh some fucking shout-out. She's been involved in a lot of really good shit, and she brings her A game to a lot of good fucking uh 300. I thought she was a very compelling part of that. Like we we reviewed that. I we loved hers. We we loved her presence. We wish we had more of it. Dread, dude. Dread, she was great in dread. She had so much malice. We absolutely need to do dread. That that's got our the patron, what the patron saint of action films, Carl Urban. Carl Urban? One of the one of them. What's he specifically? What's he the patron saint of?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:19

New Zealand?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:24

It's like a Shinto situation where like their spirits are channeled from the land.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:29

Yeah, exactly. Temples of Carl Urban all over New Zealand.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:33

They're local deities. There's like there's like just random statues of Carl Urban in New Zealand.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:40

Yeah, that's why they didn't get COVID there.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:42

In the Buddha pose. Yeah, the Carl Urban's like, my god, I I give you my protection. Yeah. And you please give me work.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:52

But uh Lena Hetty, dude, um, fucking absolute weapon whenever she shows up.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:58

Does a great job. She plays a trapper whose father is basically behind this whole thing. I gotta, I gotta take we we learned like I was very compelled by the mystery of the whole thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:12

Like I saw that shit coming a mile away.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:14

I I I did too as it came in, but like at the start, I was very compelled. Like, who's taking these girls? What are they doing with them? Uh and like I I like I I think there's something very scary specifically about like being taken by a supernatural thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:32

You'd be taken in general, usually. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:34

Like being taken, well, yeah, they did a whole movie about that, but like, you know, with with regards specifically to horror, you know, like disappearing without a trace. I feel like that's kind of a lot scarier than like being devoured or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:47

Yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:49

In my opinion, in my opinion, like that's where a lot of the horror came from, is like these weird and almost whimsical ways that you just disappear, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:57

Like you don't think a horse fucking swallows somebody.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:59

A horse fucking swallow that would be terrifying, man. Like, you know, like like like getting trampled to death by a horse, I I'm not saying I would love that, but like yeah, you know, like that's pretty that's pretty straightforward. The horse swallows me and then gallops off to parts unknown. Yeah, that's that's worse. That's worse. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:20

I was just thinking like you think you could get out of the horse, but that's probably why they webbed it up. Because like I think like I think I think that if we weren't webbed up, I think we could punch our way out of that motherfucker, right? It stomachs already got to be stretched the fuck out. They don't normally like eat people, so like that's like pretty pretty high tension. Like you just punch through that motherfucker, just superman.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:39

I feel like at this point, at that point, like that's kind of the drawback of like fairy tale uh-based horror. There's no fatalities, it's no, it's just really effective so long as you don't think too hard about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

Well, it worked in this movie to an extent because it webbed them up first. Nobody's punching out of shit if they're all webbed up.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:55

Well, yeah, but also it's like a uh a young girl from a village in Germany, like she's not punching her way out of a horse. If it happened to us, I agree. Like, we would we would have even odds of punching our way out of a horse.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:07

Out of the inside of the horse. Yeah, that's true. She probably wouldn't do that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:09

That also sounds like a Vin Diesel movie if I'm like Vin Diesel horse puncher.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:15

You saw how well Iron Lung did and was like, I could do that. I could do that. The entire movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:23

It's just an entire movie about Vin Diesel punching his way out of a horse's stomach.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:28

Filmed by GoPro.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:29

Like his whole thing is like, I saw them do that in the brother's crib, and I thought, that's not how you get out of a horse. I gotta show them, I gotta show these chumps how it's done.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:40

Somehow Patrick Stewart is playing the horse. Or Patrick Stewart.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:45

Watch how you're doing down there.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:47

He doesn't even have any voice lines.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:51

He's just naming Patrick Stewart.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:57

Wow. But I but I I mean, we've we've mentioned before that Vin Diesel has a peculiar ability to get distinguished British thespians to work in his movies. So I know, yeah. I here's here's to you, Patrick Stewart. I I am sure I will love you in Horse Puncher.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:15

Now I'm imagining like him bringing in other British thespians and in uh the Fast and Furious series. Like he brings in Jonathan Price as like the drift king of the Midwest or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:28

Fucking I'm waiting for Olivia Coleman to get in there. I'm waiting for I'm waiting for fucking Gillian Anderson to get in there. I'll be honest though, actually, if you sold me like a crime thriller with Gillian Anderson in, I would be very in. I would be very in. I think she's a great actor, and I think she has I think she has that. Well, like she was fucking great in The Crown as Thatcher. So like she's just got that and she's like, Yeah, I never watched that shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:55

It's just like I like I you know was it good though? Like I've heard I've only heard good things. Yeah, yeah, no, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:01

Well, I mean, you know, like it's not it's not a necessarily a thriller, it's like a drama, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:06

Bio drama.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:07

It's a drama. It's it's it's about taking these vast swathes of history and like slowing them down and getting to know the people and the moment by moment. And like you know, in the fucking crown, dude, you end up like uh Gillian Anderson plays Thatcher, Margaret Thatcher, who uh you know had some tension with the royals. And you actually actu you actually end up feeling bad for her. Oh really? You end up feeling bad for her because you can see these royals fucking like you know laughing at her for not knowing these fucking social norms because she grew up like a fucking in yeah, yeah. And like and like that's kind of that's cool. Like, because fucking that's something that's very distinctly British. So like it's it's I would say that the crown is kind of an ex is kind of like an explanation for why British people are what they are.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:57

Why the tabloids hate the monarchy.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:59

And I mean that I mean that affectionately, you know, like look, it's it's a good look at the whole of British history, and or at least uh I think if you'd been a British king, like you would have got killed.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:10

Um and like they would have. Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. In modern day, there would be like a like a resurgence in interest, and you like you would have like a modern reevaluation. Wouldn't help because you still would have been like gibbeted or whatever, but like people would be like, yeah, he actually had some pretty good ideas there. That's kind of how it would go. I think gibbeted.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

No, I I would I would be totally I would be a complete fucking kook. Like I would be one of those fucking I'd be fucking one of these nut kings that's like fucking.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:38

Yeah, you think so? I think you'd be like, you'd like to do like crazy executions or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:41

Like, like if if I'm if I'm being real with you, like yeah the allure of the British throne has never held a ton of a ton of appeal for me. Like I'm not I'm not trying to put down that, but like I've they are by far not the most interesting monarchy in history. Like I'll just say they're not like I if it were my choice, I'd prefer to be a weird historical king in like France or in one of the in one of the Ottoman threatened states.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:13

The Ottoman states? Okay, okay. Yeah, where like ones being threatened by the Ottomans, not ones where Ottomans feel threatened.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:20

No, no, no, like ones that are threatened by the Ottomans during their expansion. I'd be like one of these, I'd be like one of the I'd be kind of like a Vlad the Impaler type, but like the Well, Vlad wasn't really a petty tyrant. That guy had, I mean he was he was a big tyrant, brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:33

He had uh he had a vision, I'll say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:36

Well, yeah, he you know what the man knew what he was about. Yeah, we agree on that. He was a theme, he stuck to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:48

Imagine like, do you think that was like a well-regarded job, like being the guy because they had to like tie people down and they had like a guy with a like a big mallet who had like hammer the stakes up people's asses? Do you think that was like a well-regarded job, or do you think that guy kind of like had a hard time being friends?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:00

I'm gonna take your question and I'm gonna raise the stakes.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:03

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:04

I'm going to ask you to imagine that that job, but like an office style documentary.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:16

They're doing like the interview thing as the guy's getting up his ass.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:20

Like, Jim is the guy with the mallet. Dwight is the guy pulling on the feet, and he's like, still pranking him by like whacking his hands with the mallet. Like, oh sorry, Dwight. Like, ah, Jim! Can you just bash his head down so we can get this steak up his anus?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:36

And then Jim's just like mugging at the camera until Vlad impales him too.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:41

He gets impaled as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:43

End of the first episode. You get like the credits are rolling over his he's like wriggling on the thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:47

He's mugging as the steak comes out of his mouth.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Oh my god, that's Grim.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:58

I I I wanted that to be. A lot more merry. Steve Steve Carrell Steve Carell plays like a local Baron answering to Vlad the Open.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:17

And he's like all the soldiers are like this are like this village he oversees. Oh I don't hate this idea. Yeah, I mean I don't hate the idea of like a an office style comedy about an occu like a brutal tyrant.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:37

It's like Wallachia. Yeah. The office Valachia.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:42

The office Valachia.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:46

That's the classic theme, but it's played like mournfully through like an organ. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:55

Uh Will, I I I hate to say it. We got derailed again. Yep. I feel like this is especially tragic. Because this feels like a a train that got derailed and landed on a previously derailed train. Like so now there's multiple trains.

unknown 1:29:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:19

They're all derailing all over each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:21

Everyone who sees that is gonna be these guys can't fucking drive trains.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:25

Yeah, and it's like how do you even miss a turn on it? It's a train.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:29

It's a train. How did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:31

There's two directions, and neither one of them is left and right.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:34

How did you go up? But I feel like the inabil that like this episode has been much like the Brothers Grimm itself, in that it has been a few moments of what I would like to think is pretty good insight and some genuinely moving storytelling. Yeah. The rest of it has been ragu. Absolute bullshit ragu.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:05

Allegedly. We don't want to get any scary letters from the Ragu company.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:08

It was literally a guy coming out with a Home Depot bucket full of Ragu. And you think he's gonna ladle it out of the bucket. And then you realize he didn't bring a ladle. But no, he puts on that fucking bucket vac hat and puts it in reverse and just blast hoses you down with it. He just hoses you down with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:36

He uses it like a fucking riot hose. He fucking rolls.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:39

That's exactly what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:40

He rolls you along the ground, he slams you against the wall. You're begging for mercy. No, please!

SPEAKER_03 1:30:46

Like the beginning of fucking first blood when he's in the the prison like shower and they're just blasting him with the hose, but it's just full speed ragu.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:54

And Z in the corner.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:56

Just arms crossed, just watching.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:59

He knows what you did to deserve this. Oh fuck. Will, do you have anything you want to add? I I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:07

I give you any more ragu, you're gonna shit yourself. I don't want that. You don't want that.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:14

I can't take much more.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:17

I guess I only had one question, which was if you were to fix like specifically the last like third of this movie, um, when it comes to like more specific like like plot beats or like character focuses without going over the whole fucking thing, what would you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:29

Dude, I'll t I'll I'll tell you what I would do. I would keep everything the same. Okay, and I would change Cavaldi. My oh, my favorite. He can still be attacked.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:42

It was like a manslaughter incident anyway. Yeah. He can still be I mean, okay, maybe he did act with reckless disregard for the kitten's safety.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:51

We should point out that like the kitten is not actually dead. Uh oh, really? It's it's CGI, but also in the in the midst of this entire scene, like Cavaldi is literally trying to put Lena Hedy in a medieval blender. Like it is it is already fucked up. But um, I would change Cavaldi. I would make him you can keep him a torturer, you can even keep him a little sadistic. Stadistic sadistic, I'm sorry. Uh but he's much more grounded in his goals. Like, he is very straightforward, he believes in you know things he can see and touch. He's a total skeptic. He has the forest burned because it's too fucking much of a problem to deal with. He's just rational as hell, and he's like he's the deadliest adversary uh the brothers Grimm know because he does not deal with their bullshit at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:48

So more so than Jonathan Price.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:51

I would eliminate the Jonathan Price role entirely. Okay. I would keep Cavaldi just the primary antagonist.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:58

Elevate Cavaldi's villainy a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:59

Elevate Cavaldi and like have him be, and you know, like have the Brothers Grimm caught between this like supernatural threat uh and this like iron and blood threat, and like make the because you know, like in Pirates of the Caribbean, the British were also a big fucking problem for everything. Um part of that is just bias because again, I would legitimately love to have seen like uh I'd like if there was a Napoleonic drama about like the day-to-day minutiae of governing uh uh uh an occupied Germany, I would watch the show. If it fucking starred Gillian Anderson, hell yeah, I'd be in all over it. I don't care who she plays.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:43

It's Sir Patrick Stewart is the horse that eats beer.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:46

Imagine there's still a horse that eats beef. Yeah, it's Germany. Why do you think we're all so fucking uptight all the time, you asshole?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:54

Horse is fucking eating, eating fucking bowls in the fucking forest.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:58

Uve bowls in the forest. We got that going for us. Not a good time to be us lads.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:04

Yeah, we always have Jason Snatham walking back from the edge of the forest covered in deer blood with a haunted look in his eyes.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:09

And he's always like never again, never again, but he always goes back. Alright. Um, what would you change?

SPEAKER_03 1:34:17

Um, I would lower the amount of I don't want to call it fantasy bullshit, but fantasy-esque stuff in toward the end, like especially visually. Yeah, I would I would give Cavaldi like a more obvious like redemption arc. That would probably involve like earlier in the movie. I would give him a more obvious redemption arc.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:37

He's like, No, I I don't like working for yeah, and then I would this French impression has finally gotten too much, sir.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:44

I can't and then I would just kill his ass for real. Not not Peter Stormere, but uh you know uh Cavalti. Yeah, yeah. I would have yeah, I would have killed off the character for real. Um and I would have had I mean I loved the set design all over like throughout this entire movie, but when it came to the tower where the finale was filmed specifically, I would have had it look a lot more decrepit, and I would have had I would have been less as much as I love Monica Bellucci, I would have had less stuff from her and I would have been a little more subtle with like the magic of the old queen. Like make it clear that it is magic, but not like batter the fucking audience over the head with a wiffle ball bat.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:18

The the big fucking problem with this movie is that because it's so strapped together, it doesn't really have time to trust the audience to do anything, so it kind of has to hammer you in with everything that goes on.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:31

It's not a short movie either, it's almost two hours.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:33

It's two fucking hours, and like I would say a good 30 minutes doesn't need to be in there.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:39

At least 20. At least 20. At least 20. Maybe 30 is too much, but like 20. Like this movie is at least 20 minutes too long.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:46

Yeah. Now, there are worthwhile things about the movie, as we've discussed. Even if you don't like watching the whole thing, you should very much check out some scenes online. Heath Ledger and Matt Damon are great. The gingerbread man scene and the horse scene. Well, I mean fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:57

Obviously, like this podcast is very pro you seeing movies. I would still recommend seeing this movie. I like I'll like I've said this before, but like I rented this on Fandango at home. I paid five bucks to do so. I was happy to do so. I am happy to support the arts. If Matt Damon got like a little bit of that, I hope he savors it.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:22

What do you think Matt Damon buys? Like, we know what Nicolas Cage gets, just T-Rex skulls. What do you think Matt Damon does?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:28

I feel like Matt Damon does really end up pocket watches.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:31

He has like dozens of pocket watches.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:33

I feel like he has a house, and every like I think he has I think he has numerous houses. Let me say that. And I think in each of these houses, there is an endless there's an endless series of the same room done over and over as he's trying to desperately recreate something from his youth. Oh my god. And he's he's just fucking insane. And like rocking. Ben Affleck as like that's why Ben Affleck looks so fucking tired all the time. It's this, it's this amazing, it's this obsession that gives him his his brilliance. But like Ben Affleck. Ben Affleck has seen things that should not have been seen.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:21

Like he's he does have that kind of look to him.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:23

He's got some existential weariness to him.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:25

Ben Affleck and Matt Damon as um and like a Lovecraftian horror as like private detectives.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:32

I'd fucking love that. That would be sick. To be clear, I would fucking like I think I think I desperately hope someone like salvages the skeleton of this movie and like puts new sinew and skin on it, so to speak. Gross. Yeah. But gross, yeah, like tortured metaphors. We're all good. Um but like to be clear, this pot this podcast is always in favor of seeing what what m whatever movie we're talking about. We are not a podcast where we're like, oh, I don't see this, it's bad. Like, this is not about good or bad. This is like look this is about honesty. This is about looking at what works and what doesn't work and just seeing how it all comes together. As haphazard and strapped down as that may be. Oh, I think that's gonna do it for me. I I don't think in in good conscience I can continue.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:26

In good conscience?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:28

Would you would you would you do me the honors of uh doing some housekeeping?

SPEAKER_03 1:38:33

Uh Slop Culture is a podcast hosted by Sam Sykes and Will Palmer. Please give us a five-star review on whatever platform you heard us on. Our cover arts by Andrew Sides and our intro music is by Joe Roy. Uh, you can find me online at uh Will underscore Palmskies or Palmskis pretty much everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:49

You can find me at Sam Sykes Swears pretty much everywhere. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for for bearing with us. I'm sorry we didn't get to talk so much about the brothers' grip. You can read the books. You can read the fucking books. They've been out forever. You fucking read a book, you assholes. And please join us again when we next meet. Uh this has been Slop Culture, the happy hour podcast that strives to see the beauty and stupidity. And until we see you again staying.