Antoinette Raymond PhD: Connection Over Control

In this episode of Who’s Elvis Around Here?, Chris sits down with organisational psychologist Antoinette Raymond for a powerful conversation on what it really takes to lead in today’s world.

From redefining leadership as an energy game (not a time problem), to unlocking the genius in people through connection, this episode is packed with practical insight and refreshing honesty.

Antoinette shares:
✨ Why connection is the #1 driver of creativity and performance
✨ How leaders can create environments where people feel safe to be brilliant
✨ A surprising and hopeful real-world use of AI in healthcare
✨ Simple, powerful techniques to become more present and impactful
✨ What gives her hope about the future — from bold young voices to fearless women redefining their later years

This is a conversation about being more human at work — and why that might be the most important leadership skill of all.

If you care about leadership, culture, or bringing out the best in people, this one’s for you.

🎧 Listen now and discover how to lead with energy, connection, and purpose.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

So most leaders have far too much going on. This is not an issue of time, this is an issue of energy. So on this podcast, Who's Elvis Round here, we get to explore with some of the best leaders on the planet how they get their energy right and create the conditions for people to be extraordinary. So I'm delighted to have Antoinette here. Welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Hello, hello. I'm so thrilled to be here. This is great.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

All right, it's fantastic to have you here. So please share with the listeners who are you and um and what is it about you that means you can bring some insight to this particular conversation?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Ooh, second question is harder. First one is um, I'm an organizational psychologist. And before I talk about that, I'm and people say this, but I mean it. I am mother, auntie, wife, daughter, sister. Um, that's me. Tribal all the way. Um, but as an organizational psychologist, I'm there are three things I'm mostly about. I love embracing complexity. I love, I love big, naughty, tension-filled problems and helping executives with those. Probably my favorite new thing is I engender difference as a strength. I never knew that a six-year-old woman of different background, ethnic, living in a different country was gonna have be having the best time of her life. So I'm having fun and trying to make sure that keeps happening. And then the last thing I do is I hope that it whenever I'm dealing with my my people, my family, my clients, that I breed confidence. It's an important thing for me. That I I don't I bring you up. I hope I lift you. So it that's me. But I do this in the world of business, mostly in technology and finance.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I think you do it everywhere you go, from my understanding, Antoinette, because I I met you and I went, you have to come on. You've lifted me up. Um, you know, you great energy, great positivity, and great fun. So I am looking forward to this conversation. Me too. So um so we're gonna we're gonna crack straight in. The first question. Tell us the story you love to tell that people love to hear.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

I love a good story. And um, having listened to your other wonderful guests, I was a little intimidated. I was like, wow, they are good. But you know, it's funny, I didn't know stories were so important to me, except in hindsight that my family, I'm very, I say the word multiple times, but I mean it. I'm first generation, we're very in that tribal way, tell our life story, our culture through stories. And so I grew up, that's how I do it. But two of I'm gonna give you two recent stories because I've got the old ones are great, but the ones I I'm having fun with right now are the fun one. Um, so I wrote a book called Tits Up and What's Your Point. But the funniest thing about that is one, it's a good name. The callers on the book are pretty. So you could hate the book, but it's pretty on the shelf. But my favorite thing are your friends and your colleagues, and you know, they're all saying, Oh, I'm so proud of you. Well done. Oh, that must have been hard work. You know, all the nice things you say when someone does something different. Sure. And my favorite is maybe a week, two weeks later, or a text letter from my son, oh my god, it was good. And I love that, it makes me smile because it's like, yay. So that's a fun story that just makes me laugh because it um me. So I like a good story that makes me laugh too. But a story that um is kind of current is the question when I'm asked the question, or I'm I'm I'm I'm confronted with family, friends, colleagues, um, clients about AI. Okay. And how do you feel about it? And it's like they want this big socioeconomic, you know, impact of the world kind of statement. And I my story is quite simple in how I'm uh devoted to finding out the good and what it can do. I have a wonderful client that's a healthcare organization, and one of the use cases that they did for AI was something called ambient documentation. Yeah, what it is is when you want to take care of, let's say, the care team, your doctors, your your your people who are taking care of you, your nurses, they're exhausted, they're tired. It's a it's a hard work, it's a hard job. And specifically, let's look at doctors. One of the things they are tired of is not only do they have all their appointments, but they have to catch up with their recording, with their you know, documentation. And that's called pajama time because they have to do it after work. It's after they see everybody, right? And and and they're more importantly, a lot of it has we're losing the touch. So, in some ways, technology brought in less contact, right? I'm now I'm looking at your screen, I've got two minutes to catch up to who you are, you know, age 62. Like that's a lot of screen. Ambient documentation is a tool, and I'm gonna not describe it perfectly in a technological way, but just what it does for me. It it partners with the doctor and the patient, and it says, I'm listening to you guys, so I'll capture some of the notes that's going on. So that's why she's all in. More importantly, I'm gonna remind you, doctor, all the stuff that's important about Antoinette, her age, her issues of blood pressure. The last time she took an antibiotic, because that's what she's here for today, she has another chest infection. So what happens is you can be quite cold and you're like reading really fast, and and you the doctor says to you, you tell me what I need to know. And it's like you're the patient going, no, you should know. You're my doctor, right? Ambient documentation provides, lifts up this information to help us. And here's the best part he or she can look at me now and go, Oh, yeah, your eyes look really tired. Oh, what's going on? Oh, I'm sorry, that must really hurt. I can hear it. The last appointment I had that had something like that changed everything, made me feel what you want to feel when you're reaching out to someone in that role to help take care of you. And it's just this wonderful partner, and it helps, and then it summarizes it, and you have to both sign it, et cetera, et cetera. So there's the there's the regulations and all that, but that's not a bad use case.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Oh my god, it's I think it's it's amazing. I was I was talking to the guys at Alderhay, the the children's hospital, and they've they've they've put ambient AI in, and and what I didn't realize was, and obviously, you know, this is this is how tech advances, there can be 20 conversations with 20 consultants and 20 families, and it picks them out individually, lands their action points.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

I mean, it's a come on, is that not stunning? And it's one of those where it allows you then to be the person you wanted to be in this world.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Present, you know, and and informed and and therefore connected. I think it's fantastic. I and you know, I know that there's a lot of fear around AI, but when you hear stuff like that, we should be excited, right? We should be going, my god, this is this is life-changing.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

My one of my my niece is a um tattoo artist, and she had very big issues about AI. And I I so we have this is this is I'm tired auntie at the end of the night and she chooses to fight about AI then, right, with a glass of wine in my hand. And I just laugh because as she's as she's making emojis on her phone, like I'm like, oh, but it's I like a good story so that it balances it out.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. And look, no, that's a that's a great start. I love that one. So um, second question.

unknown 7:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

What what is the single most important thing that we as leaders need to do or put in place to bring out the genius of our people?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Oh God, I love the idea of bringing out the genius in people. Um, the irony is I wrote my dissertation, my doctorate on creativity in the workplace. So I had the privilege of diving deep into a topic like genius, like creativity, and what hinders it and what brings it out. And the irony is my answer right now is nothing from the research. Nothing's moved off. It's experience, right? Experience, right? Oh yeah, yeah. Oh it's gonna go back to the first story, ironically enough. Connection. Because for you to be all that you can be, letting all your genius let loose, letting all your crazy come out, all your ideas, one of the most important things is the environment with which you're allowed to do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

And yes, there are times in an emergency you have to come up with a genius idea, et cetera, et cetera. How I okay, so that's so that's one of the environments, right? That that's one of the needs you have to. They they know that they're there. But for me, if you as a leader are trying to bring that out, it's connection. It's connection. It and because connection, that one word, underpins a lot of the things that are necessary for me to let rip on my ideas, to let loose. So if I connect with you, and I'm not talking, I need to know about, you know, what you did on well, I couldn't know what you did on Saturday, but you know, I don't need to know every detail. It's the point where as humans, I sit there and I say, I care about you, I know you exist, I need you to be this, I need you to be creative, I need you to be your best self, both doing the mundane and the creative genius stuff that you have to do. And I think, you know, again, the connect allows that thing which we know you need for any kind of activity, psychological, you know, psychological safety. Sure. Like I don't come up with something and you, you know, chop my head off. Um, it comes with trust. Sure. I'm gonna trust somebody I connect with a little bit better. Um, so that's it takes a minute. Sometimes it's just about coming from behind the podium when you're making a big, you know, town hall meeting and connecting, laughing, doing something. Again, it can be individual or it can be meta. There are people who are magnificent at meta connecting with their people, but it's the connect. That's what I think.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah, no, it's it's a it's a punchy area, isn't it? I one of my favorite all-time books with Johan Haare's Lost Connections. I love it.

unknown 10:12

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

So I was in my other room, I'd reach back and I'd grab it.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

But it just explains so much about obviously that book was written about you know anxiety and depression, but but that's that's how you avoid those challenges. But obviously, if you have them abundantly in your life, it means that you have a very different energetic setup. And and it's particularly important, you know, for getting people to feel confident to be themselves, to feel as if they have purpose, they have meaning, uh, they show up every day being themselves, and therefore they bring their genius, right? So so it's it was a great kind of idea for me to think about that. Um, and obviously, you've done lots of work with lots of organizations, and um, there's lots of different ways to create connections. Have you got any any top tips for the listeners on how people can think a little bit more about how they can make sure those connections have real meaning and use?

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Um, okay, there's it therein lies the answer, right? Real meaning and use, and just how can you do it? And it starts with you. This is what cracks me up. Everybody wants this. What can we do? You can do a lot. And I think my biggest tip for people, whenever they're coming into any situation, one-on-one, andor a big, let's say, you know, uh presentation or a big like town hall or something like that. Um, uh catch your breath, breathe, lift. So it goes with the name of my book. I kind of didn't mess around with it. It's lift your lift your tits, yeah. And most importantly, make your point. But the the point, if the point is connection, when you lift, I'm gonna pay attention to you, you breathe. I'm hoping because you heard my voice saying lift your tits, you're smiling a little bit because you're like any tall, etc. But stop for a split second, look around and smile at some people, recognize some people in the audience, look up and say, I'm so glad to be here. Take that second it takes to sh for the people to see you grounding yourself. I am in this moment, I am not rushing to the next thing. Because that's the thing that I can't stand is if I'm in a meeting and I feel like you're three meetings ahead of me, or you you know, so I'm just basically taking notes for you now, and now I'm just listening, I'm being told, versus I'm here today. We got a lot of things to talk about. Hang on, buckle up, let's go. But now I feel a little bit more connected. Um that's one thing. So that's what you individually as a leader can do, I think. I think then in preparation, anything you're trying to sell, sell, take the time and do really good examples. Use the time to use the words that mean something to them. Don't use all this catchy phrases, etc. It whatever your field is, use the words that mean something to the people you want to touch, the people you want to be genius with you. And I think people forget that, and then you know, you throw it in chat, and I hear again here's the negative side of chat. You know someone wrote something, chat. Oh, my poor husband, oh, he's gonna hate when he hears this part. But he wrote me something, and I looked at him like, Are you kidding me? Did you just and I said you started it though in chat because I can read and go, that's when you were you. So it's hard because I think chat gives you a base. But then when you put your personality and the context in, now I know you're really here, and then I can then listen to you and potentially do what you need me to do. That's a bit my I like.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

I mean, we could dive into those in lots of depth. I mean, you know, language is so powerful, so evocative, but being purposeful about it, uh, you know, lining that up with your intention is absolutely vital. And I but I really enjoyed also just taking a beat. Take a beat, getting present to yourself, connecting with who you are in that moment in that time before you do anything. And I I've got this thing about before, you know, before we do anything, that is your moment. Um, and I love the fact that you start with physiology because actually, if you don't get that bit right, forget about the rest.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I love it. I mean, yeah, I'm a psychologist, whatever. I still get excited about learning stuff. The neuroscience of it is beautiful. And what happens is our neural pathway is fast. We're always doing things fast. I gotta get this done. I've got so many things on my to-do list. And in that lies the lack of connection because I'm just on that neural pathway. So it literally takes something physically to snap you out of it. Like just taking a walk, breathing outside, drinking a really cold glass of water, or drinking a really hot cup of tea physiologically changes you because you're like, oh, it makes you feel something different. So it's there's a lot you can do to help with your science.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah, I I've I've got this little technique, I call it the hello, which is you know, before doing anything, I don't say hello to you yet, I say hello, this is a bit hippie, to the soul you, to the higher consciousness you, right? So, but to do that, I've got to get myself in state. I've got to breathe, I've got to smile, I've got to elevate, and then we can connect, and then I can do the work. And it's a little visualization thing, but it just really helps me be more purposeful, more intentional, and actually not worry about the content, just focus on you.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

I started getting worried about today. I I I I had I started to think about it. I went, no, no, no, no, stop. He's talking, we're gonna talk about energy. We're gonna talk about I got this. We'll have fun. And it's like, so yeah, you I love that idea. And it's I hippee hippee, I don't care. It's it all works, it whatever works for you. But yeah, yeah, yeah. But I love the thing you said about before. A good party is one of those that looked like it was effortless, right? Throw it together, all people, the right people in the room, food flowing, drinks, the candles are pretty. My family cannot bear the before with me because that is everything to me. It is set. I do this, it's timed. It's this because if what I want is the guests to feel what I just said, it's all in the before. A lot of it.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Oh, it really is. It really is. And I, you know, I'm I I love my food, right? It's all the pre-prep. They turn up and they go, How did this happen? Oh, I'm just putting it together. It's taken the whole day to make that happen.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

And you're rushing at the last minute because you didn't you didn't time it well, and like, oh crap, that's what at the same time. Yeah, at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, no, it's so true. So I'm I'm I'm I'm a fan of the before as well. So look, uh my my final question, which uh I'm I I I would imagine there'll be all sorts of different potential answers from you. What gives you hope?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Oh, I thought that was such a pretty question when you told me you were gonna ask me that. I think it's a pretty question because it just it's something that needs to overlay so much of what we do these days because of these days. Um my first and my answer is it's not by accident, but by accident, in promoting the book, in promoting the stuff I do differently than the work I do, than the consulting I do. Um different groups of people, I've been in front of different groups of people, and the surprise is the two two what would be, you think, discrepant groups that have been the most uh inspiring to me. And one of them is the group, and it's usually it's women on this one, but the 55 and olders who've read the book or we've talked about it, or I'm doing a workshop on it, and it's this spirit of oh hell no, I got to this place. You guys are not erasing me, you are not ignoring me. I am here, I am ready, I have earned this, you know. Living beliefs aside, imposter syndrome aside, yes, I carry those in my very, very nice bag, but I am here and I am ready not just to leave, but to help bring up others. It's a very interesting, but it's an older group, a little bit older, so 55, seven up to 70, 75, they're in a very different place. And I just go, yes, please, because that's my posse. That's my group, and I want to believe we're in a place. Then it's my youngs. So I've had the privilege of being able to present and do work with 14 to 17-year-old girls, 20 to 20, and I'm I'm around them because I birthed one of them, but not in a way that I can add and be an auntie to them in a way, and it's their they're not thrilled with what we've left them. I get that. Like I'm gonna do it differently, I'm gonna try something new. How about this? And they think we have no concept of what it's like to live on your phone or to have social media the way we have, and positive or negative, it is what they've grown up with, and just to see and hear that they're going to come up with new ways of thinking and being, I'm loving both, both give me hope. And it's kind of the new thing I'm working on. So I'm having fun with that.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah, yeah. Well, I there are so many sources of inspiration out there in the form of people and you know, who we're connecting with and the work that we're doing that you know has meaning to us, those people just shine a different light. And I, you know, I like the the the ends of those spectrums have got quite a different resonance, right? But but but equally valuable, equally valuable, equally valuable, equally funny, equally deep.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Um so no, that hope right there. And I need it right now. We all need it.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

So yeah, yeah, we all do, we all do, yeah. People never never stop inspiring me, and you know, in the most surprising of places, which is which is part of the beauty, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 19:51

Yeah, so so what's coming up for you? What's uh exciting in your future, Antoinette?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Oh celebrating my daughter's 21st birthday, my youngest.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

That's gonna be good.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, she's trying to calm mommy down. She says, Mommy, stop. It's not your birthday. Not me. She, I'm like, let's do it! And she's like, but what's coming up? You know what? I'm kind of really in a place where I'm trying, I've been doing for most of my life, all my life, just doing. Sure. Both as an eldest daughter, both as uh professional, and I'm trying to make sense and meaning now out of a lot of it. And I'm enjoying that. So I'm going back to my roots of being a scientist and doing some research, finding out what is really going on with regard to the different topics we've just talked about. But kind of giving my fresher take on it, because it then it's gonna help my clients, but it's also gonna help my nieces and nephews and my kids. And we'll see. So I'm kind of having fun with this whole exploration of this current time. What's it mean to be confident?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

So, um, a a different energy, not all of doing, but of being, but of hanging back, bit of rolling around in the stimulus.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Exactly. Just oh, luxurious.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

It really does sound like that. Yeah, well, look, what what a wonderful thing. And no doubt we'll be talking on another podcast when we hear what you come up with.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I'd love that. I love I'm excited. I can't wait to have that one when I get to tell you, oh, look what I found.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Yeah, here we go. I've got the I've got the answer, Chris. I'm looking forward to that. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on, Antoine. Um, I I I deeply, madly fell in love with your energy immediately when we met.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Well, I know, but let's see if this works. And you were like, no, we're done. Like, it works.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

It just works. It just works. So I'm sure we're gonna play more in the future. Good luck with everything, and thank you for sharing such brilliant insights.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Well, thank you for inviting me. This was wonderful. What a what a way to start my day.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Have a great one.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

You too. Talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Take care.