From Morecambe to the Pyramids

In this episode of Who’s Elvis Round Here?, Chris Baréz-Brown sits down with long-time friend, creative leader, and Multiply founder Dr. Mark Fowlestone for a rich conversation about creativity, business, humanity, and the energy that brings people to life.

From growing up in Morecambe to leading workshops beneath the pyramids, Mark shares stories from his journey through Ogilvy, Havas, and 20 years building Multiply into one of the UK’s most respected creative agencies.

Together, Chris and Mark explore:

• Why the best leaders create space, not pressure
• The difference between “culture” and energy
• How human connection still beats process and technology
• Why creativity needs freedom, play, and experimentation
• The power of empathy in business and life
• How a wrong-number phone call led to winning a major client
• Why presence matters more than long-term plans
• The importance of keeping humanity alive in a tech-driven world

This is a conversation full of warmth, wisdom, laughter, and honest reflections on what really makes businesses — and people — thrive.

If you care about leadership, creativity, innovation, culture, or simply becoming more human in the way you work and live, this episode is for you.

Subscribe for more conversations with extraordinary people doing things differently.

#Leadership #Creativity #Innovation #Culture #Business #Podcast #ChrisBarezBrown #MarkFowlestone

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

You rang the wrong person, haven't you? And I could hear a flicking, and she went, I have. I've called the wrong agency. But we got on so well, I'm gonna let you pitch. And I was like, that's wicked. And then we pitched and we won.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

So welcome to the Who's Elvis Round Here podcast. This is where I get to hang out with some very cool people, uh, leaders who are renowned for creativity, for energy, for uh for shaking things up and getting the best out of their people. And this week I am joined by an old mate of mine, Dr. Mark Falston. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Oh, thanks, Chris. It's a joy. It's a joy to see you in one of my most favourite rooms that you inhabit. Yeah, you've been here before.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

This is this is the place where magic magic has happened.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Always does.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Are you are you and you're sitting or are you standing? I'm I am sitting. Uh admittedly, I'm on a very high stool, but uh, but I am sitting. Right. Yeah. Making myself comfortable for you. Ready for wherever the conversation goes. Well, it's gonna go anywhere, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

It's gonna go everywhere and everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

So look, for those people who don't know you, Mark, can you give us a bit of a bit of a background? Who are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

So I'm um I'm Mark Falstone, and I come from the northwest of England, a little place called Morcambe. Um, a little an old seaside town, and I hold it passionately. I I grew up there in in the tough mean streets of the 80s, and um I think that was a a part of me that um I hold today. Maybe I've got a chip on my shoulder about coming from somewhere like that. But um from there I went to Sheffield, I went to university in Sheffield, and then I went down to uh London and I worked within the Ogilvy organization, uh, which was fantastic, brilliant training, um, exceptional standards and brilliant creative. And then from there I moved within the Havas organization and ended up becoming an MD of one of their companies. And then 20 years ago, which seems a long time ago, really, um, you know, I must have been about eight when I went to uni. Um but um then I started my own thing called multiply, and um, this has been 20 years of of real joy doing it for yourself. I hadn't realized, I always thought that you couldn't do it for yourself, but actually, it just takes one step, doesn't it? And then things happen. And um, when you throw your heart and soul into it, it happened. I came together with a bunch of mates, uh, all different, which was really important, and um, and then we started this this um this beautiful journey. And um, you know, you'll find us making TV ads for Call It Meets Scotland, Historic Environment Scotland. You'll even find us under the shadow of the pyramids inventing new biscuits for Pladys. Um our our output is is many varied and um the it's been um it's it it's been it's been great. I I I come in every day. Um there's no need to, but I I love coming in. And uh yeah, we we um we we've we've provided successful lives for many people, probably over 350 people in the time that we've been around, and people seem to enjoy and hark back to how they enjoyed hanging with us. So that's where I am, yeah. And I live in Edinburgh now, um, and I um I can't I kind of call it my home. I've probably been here in Scotland more than I've been in England, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Um so that's me, Chris. Lovely, lovely. And look, um obviously, you know, we've bonded over the years through uh many through kind of creativity and doing things differently and following our passions and our energy. So uh so we've we've got a lovely little van diagram that overlap beautifully, I would say. Uh which is which is why I was delighted to have you on.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Well, it's a pleasure, and I remember the times of uh when you were at Bass Brewers that became Kurs, and you were one of the the starlets of um of their um of their of the of their drinks world. And then you left there to go to what if and I think you taught me there the ideals of of change, but also the skills that what I've had. They were a brilliant company and probably still are a brilliant company, but their principles on activating the mind and opening up the possibilities, I think that you shared with me, I think set me up in many ways. So I have to thank you many times for for your professional insights. So as well as being a one-top bloke.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Well, I'll take that happily. Well, uh we you know we've had some fine adventures. So uh talking to fine adventures, now I know you can spin a good yarn, Mark. So what is the story that you love to tell that people love to hear?

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Well, I mean uh if I was to say what's my job, I would probably say that I'm probably well, people probably say he just talks all the time, yeah. And um and um and I do try and avoid um stories that have um you know like a bad placed um sort of cultural relevance. Like I was at um, this isn't the story I'm gonna tell you, by the way, but I was at work, I was at a workshop and um I was asking everybody, where do you where do you come from? And um one of the attendees said, Um, I'm from Vienna. And I went, I'm sorry, that means nothing to me. Yeah. And nobody laughed. Nobody laughed, right? And then afterwards, one of the one of the uh the older crew said, You get you need to change your cultural reference points. And I'm like, you're absolutely right. Yeah. Um, so yeah, a story that I keep repeating, I think, time and time again. I I think that um the the kind of the key things that I try to do in my job is make sure that people understand it's so important to remain human, to remain who you are, I think is is is is absolutely critical. Um and and I think also to ride your luck, yeah. So luck happens. It's really weird luck, but it happens, yeah. And when you ride it, you take it. And I think that's really important. And the final thing is always have empathy with people, yeah. And empathy if you're in a you know, if you're in a marketing job or a brand job, empathy is about, you know, your consumers, but also those around you. And I think if you understand people, then that's brilliant. And understanding them at heart of it is empathy. And the yarn I'm going to tell you is about um, so I was in the office and everyone had gone out. Every single person had left the office. And um I was I was uh at my desk playing online gaming, yeah. And uh, so next thing I hear the phone's ringing, and I was kind of disturbed. So I went and picked up the phone and I went, Hey, how's it going? You know, it was actually the main reception phone, which normally would have been, hi, you're three to multiply, you know, who how can I help you, etc. It's like hi. And um the girl on the other end went, oh, sorry, sorry. Um and that we turned out um she was a major client at a cheese company. So we spoke for the next 45 minutes all about cheese. Yeah, I never realized I knew so much about cheese. We talked about um the retail environment, you know, we talked about dietary changes, talked about everything, yeah. And we got on really well. It was really lovely. And you know, I was a little bit embarrassed at the start because I kind of answered the phone in a, you know, as if I was like lying on my sofa. But um, and she says, Look, we've had such a great conversation. I'm going to ask you to pitch. And I was like, Oh, that's really wicked. That's so kind. And then she said, So just to get the details right so I can get everything there, you're from and named another agency. And I went, and I went, You've rang the wrong person, haven't you? And I could hear a flicking, and she went, I have. I've called the wrong agency, but we got on so well, I'm gonna let you pitch. And I was like, that's wicked. And then we pitched and we won. And this client became a really good client for a number of years, and it was that, you know. So what I try and tell people is, you know, you just always have empathy with people. And when luck happens, ride that luck, you know. So it was lucky that we took that call, lucky that I answered it in the way, but that look then embodied itself in the whole pitch process. There was a story to tell, you know. Um and and so, yeah, and it and we won the pitch and it was great. And uh, so I I tell that too many times. And normally when people um come into the business um and uh when I'm trying to kind of just uh show them the way of dealing with people is really important. Um, I remember my old boss um when I was really young, I took a call from a client who said, I'm leaving on Friday. I was like, Oh, leaving. And um, she said, Yeah, I'm going to another job. Can you give me the budget? I says, right, well, there's two budgets uh that we've been working to. There's one which is the advertising and one which is the staffing. And uh she says, No, no, it's one. I always told you it was one. I said, Well, it's actually two. And um uh she goes, Well, I could just leave and say that the staffing budget was um was nothing I knew about, and then you wouldn't get paid. I said, You could do that, but karma will hit you, right? And then she put the phone down and she put the phone down on me, and then um next thing my um my boss called me through and he said, Mark, you can't talk to people like that, right? You've got to understand that she's probably saying that because she's made a mistake or whatever, and you try and work it through together. I was like, I'm really sorry, I'm fresh in. I just didn't get it. And then about eight years later, my old boss rang me up, and I'd moved on, and he moved on, and he had a passing resemblance to me. And he went into this new business meeting, and the uh the girl there said, I know you, you were the one that was really rude to me years ago. Leave. And then he rang me up and said, You've just caused me to lose. So, yeah, uh having empathy and understanding people's perspectives, I think, is something that I'd I try to communicate.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Well, it sounds like you learned the lesson, and then uh and then since then when you've been doing late night gaming, you're just there to catch it, which is perfect.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

That's it.

unknown 10:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I love I love it. I love it when you there was that realization that that she'd phoned you by accident. That is just class.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

I know, yeah. I mean, she'd obviously just drawn a list up of different agencies and wrote ours down by mistake, but you know, and and and I think that that broke down all the future barriers. You know, we'd bonded at a uh a different level, you know. I I didn't know that she was a client or anything. I just thought, oh, this is really interesting. Let's talk cheese.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

So let's talk cheese.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Let's get into it. So look, you so um obviously when you are doing your work, you've got lots of great people that you work with, work with lots of clients, uh, you've got a nice touch for people. So yeah, what's the single most important thing about bringing the genius out of people?

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, I mean, it's um it's a really complex um there are so many possibilities in the way that you can bring out, but I think for me, the the thing that I try to give people is space, yeah. Probably space and permission. Um, space to um make mistakes, investigate new areas, take chances, as long as there's like, you know, standards. So there's certain standards that we expect, you know, in terms of performance, being safe with each other, all of those other things. Um, the language that we use, etc., is really important. But within that, you've got to give people space and allow them, and when they feel comfortable in their own space, as it were, that's when I think the magic comes out. Um, I think that um I go back to being a northerner, you always, you know, you you would you consume all the northern books, you know, when you're a kid, and um uh and one that sticks out is actually probably 19th century called The Manchester Man. It's a really interesting book. It's a study of how a boy changes through life and um becomes successful and you know grows, but also it reflects how Manchester has grown over that period as well and change. And I think that what's really important is that wherever we are, the world will change. You can't have fixed things um and have to accept that what's really important in those periods of changes is when people leave an impression, a story, an imprint. And I think that's um a really important thing is that when you give people space, it allows them to put their own impression down. And I think that's the thing that remains. When I look back at, you know, the over 350 people that have have come through these doors, you know, the the the the ones that are really the people that I really remember of those that have left impressions, you know, little echoes around the place. And uh, and that's all been from giving them space to bring their own self into the business.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

So I'm a massive fan of space, and it's something that a lot of people um really are challenged with creating just because you know, with where the tech is and with constant demands of our attention, back to backs, all that kind of stuff, um, that they find it very hard. And and I'm asked about this quite often. So, what are your top tips on how you create space for your company and your people?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Um I mean, people these days are shackled by process, you know, and um and particularly in our industry, margins are so tight, and and then everybody gets every system in. We need to capture every hour, every hour's got to be allocated to a client. Yeah, and I get that, but but I find that you can do that at a basic level, but you have to give space available for people. So it's not about delivering seven and a half hours against a client. You've got to think, well, 50% of your time you're administrating, you're doing stuff efficiently. The other 50% of the time, investigate, try new things, look at other opportunities. You're dealing with a on a certain project. What's next? Have a think, you know, and um and I think that you just have to, you know, accept that technology makes us um more efficient, but it can't take away our humanity and our personality. And we have to allow space to do that, which is difficult because you know, ultimately, you know, nobody's in no industry at the moment, they're saying we've got loads of time. Like when I uh started in the Ogilvy Network, it was nine months before you're allowed you're effectively allowed to see a client. And what you were doing in that nine months was learning everything about the potential client that you were going on to. So when I went into my first meeting, which was um a supermarket chain, I knew everything about it. Yeah. So I'd just gone in there and I'd found out everything. Um, and uh, you know, there is tragically, there are there is no scope for that um anymore. But what there can be in your daily life is, you know, just you know, you know what you've got to deliver, there's a system there to help you, but how you get there, make it fluid, make it flexible, you know. Um if you want to uh work at home, go and work at home for a few days. If you want to come in late, come in late. You know, if you've got other stuff to do, fine. As long as there's a there's the standards that are the the kind of bedrock of it all, then just allow people the fluidity. Um, and I think that is good. It can be dangerous because you know, um people may manipulate that or but you know that that that that rocks out. But in the main, I think if you allow that that allow that freedom of expression, then um then that's that's when when stuff really happens for people and and and us as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yeah, and it's and it's refreshing to hear because so many agencies are all about utilization levels. You know, that's what it's about. Yeah, and they just try to max out the the cash and they forget that the the people they they're working with are human, and actually, we're not all about uh you know delivering maximum number of hours that add value all the time. We need some time to rest, to reflect, to get stimulus, to play, to get lost, get things wrong. All of that's vital, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

To do good work. Yeah. It is, and I think that um, you know, I I remember going, uh, we pitched for a client many, many years ago, and um uh the way that we got there was one of the boys in the office said, I was down at IKEA and I found this a really amazing thing. And I decided to build this unit, right? And I think this unit could really uh be part of their marketing. And I was like, that is absolutely crazy. So I rang up the client and I says, Look, you don't know me from Adam, right? I'm just a guy in an agency. But one of the boys has built this mental thing. Can I come and show you it? And I took it along and he says, I tell you what, it's not what we're looking for, but I've never been approached by somebody that's taken the time to think about our brand that's not employed by us and bring us something really wild. He said, You're gonna pitch for our business next, you know, which was really good. But if you you didn't give people that space to, you know, ultimately what he did was not right for the time, but he showed that he's always thinking, you know, he's he had an idea, he he brought it to life, he made it real, you know, and it became a talking point, you know. Like in their office, they're like, Who's brought this crazy thing into the office?

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Always to be remembered though. Uh you know, that's it. And you know, that that's where the magic often comes. It's not, you know, when you're on a tight timeline with a process and there's a deliverable coming up, it's when actually we can get to play around the edges a little bit, and uh and that's how humans love to create.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

That's it, and I think that's when, particularly in our world, clients build bonds with you, you know, because if all of your relationship is based on deliverables and timescales and meeting them, then that becomes the premise of your relationship. Whereas if you've got a chance to bring a bit of humanity into it, a bit of fresh thinking, an approach of what if we do this, what if we do that, if you don't have the space to be able to do that, then all your relationship is based on is a transactional feel, which you know, um and and you fall out of love, you know.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So um Yeah, you really do. My my my favourite clients phone me up out of the blue and they go, I've got this problem. And it's not brief, it's not something I I should be paid for, but they just they just want us to bounce it around. And I love that stuff because often we can add value very, very quickly. You don't want it to be something you have to invoice, you want to just do it as part of the love of the relationship, right? Yeah, and that that fluidity. And by the way, I can then phone them up and do the same thing, which is the way a relationship should be, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah, I think a sort of a slight adjunct to that is a a friend of mine is uh he's an architect, and you know, he'll spend his time doing you know architect stuff, which is you know, the unless you're doing something really interesting, is pretty, you know, ordered, structured, business-like work. And he does it and he's pretty bored of it, and you know, he's like, Oh, I need to maybe change. And then he gets a call out the blue. And this guy's like saying the laws on fast cremations are changing. We need to think about mausoleums. How do we do fast track mausoleums? It is the greatest brief he's ever been given in his life, and he absolutely loves it. And it's like, you know, he said, I was thinking of changing my world, and my world changed around me, and I just can't, you know. Um, so yeah, it's uh you can't see that one coming, can you? You can't, no, no. Mausoleums, cremations, putting the fun in funerals, it's all uh that's a brief to get into.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Well, another friend of mine is is in the process of reinventing death. He's realised there's a big opportunity there, as it's so Victorian in the way we think about it. So that's a chat for another day, but uh interesting area. Um so you work with loads of businesses, um, you have seen all sorts of things. Is there one thing that you see in traditional business that really gets your goat?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Um I think that if I was to ponder that, I think it would be this idea of culture. Um culture, when when people talk about their cultural identity, it seems really retrospective, it seems fixed, it feels like it's in a framework, yeah. This is our culture, and this is how we operate, and all of that kind of stuff. And I really don't like that phrase, and I and I see it as a permanent, so you've got to fit the culture. For me, it's always been about energy, yeah. And it's about the energy of a place, not the necessarily the culture of the place. It's how people are um so we had somebody come in for an interview recently, and and I heard the the bell go, and uh they were in reception, and they were like, you know, hanging with a couple of people that were working in reception, and you know, and then I took him into the meeting room and he goes, I don't want to sound like I'm you know I'm blowing smoke, but I absolutely love the vibe of uh as I've walked in. And I think for me that's what it should be. It's not about a cultural template, it's about people just bringing energy. And and I think that the more that people kind of um, you know, the people that have really done well here and uh have uh have brought something to the party, of those that have come in each day and shown up, shown up what they're about, yeah. And they've brought their own, you know, like just before I came in uh to talk to you, there was absolute uh raucous howlings and stuff like that. And and and and and that's for me is about the energy of a place rather than a prescriptive template that people should follow. So when people talk to me about um about their culture, I find that a really even that. I know what that's saying. It still jars me, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah, and and I agree. I think it is often very static and it is retrospective. And so what you're saying really resonates. I also don't think it exists in a business. So I don't think they have a culture. I think they have lots of cultures because every team's different. And this kind of one size fits all is, you know, this is the direction we're in. I I find incredibly limiting. So I like your it's about energy because it because it ultimately is, and it is palpable. You know, when you do walk into a place that multiply, you can feel it, and you know if if it's buzzy and it's a place that attracts you or not. Yes. Um the best the best businesses have a certain resonance about them, which is which is quite special to who they are.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

And it goes back to that first um point I was making, which is that um energy is really weird in in that it's it leaves a print over time, yeah. It's always there, you know. So we were um yesterday we were harking back to some of the people that had been here, and and and you just they come alive again. You remember them, how they would how they did their job, you know, um the fun that we had with them. And that's that's just lying around the place constantly. Their energy is still here, you know. And I think that what you're trying to do over time is build that energy, you know, fill it with all the stories from the past, the people from the past. They may have come and they may have gone, like most people do in organizations, but if they've left a little print, a little bubble, a little story somewhere, then uh, you know, I I I like that rather than trying to package it up as a definition of who we are, you know, um you know, signs on the wall and things like that. I'd it it's not that for me, it's a feel. Um yeah, I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, what you're describing is the layers of people and experiences over time, and and yeah, you know, they they do they do build, and that is what gives you something that's very much unique to who you are in your business. So yeah, I I think we could we can do a couple of hours on this one, Mark. This is uh this is a meaty subject.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

It could, and and it's also it's also not necessarily the fun and you know the mad stories, but it's also the failures that people have had as well. You know, the people that tried something and it's not worked, and all of that's um it's like when uh one of the exercises that are doing innovation is is saying to people, look, you've been innovating for the last 10 years, right? And there was loads of failures, yeah. And please don't see them as failures, see them as stimulus for the next step forward. Let's have a look at them all. There must have been some magic in there, something somebody liked what it was, but it failed at the time. Maybe you didn't have a factory, or there wasn't a supplier, or there wasn't a this, that, and the other, or changing habits have uh have have changed. But you know, don't don't don't treat the past as the past. There's always something bubbling through that you can grab on to.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Um yes, in full agreement on that one, Mark. No, I've hung out with you a lot in many, many places in lots of different contexts. And um you're always a very positive chap. Oh what is it that gives you hop what is it that gives you hope, Mark?

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Um hope's a funny thing, really. Um, and uh I've had some um heated discussions with my partner Fiona about this because the there's something about hope which I find as a bit nebulous, a bit like, you know, um it it will happen. Um and there's also the kind of religious part of it which doesn't kind of gel with me. But um I I I think that um hope is about is about now. It's up to you to do stuff now. If you're present and you're making stuff happen with a positive outlook, then things will happen for you. And it's really hard to think about uh hope something will happen because things change every single day. I mean, I've suddenly become addicted to the news, right? It's like what's gonna happen? Or or like what's what's um AI gonna do to us today? You know, so it the world is changing beyond belief. I mean when we boys 10. Um, will you go to university? Will university be still around? I wouldn't, you know, I'm not gonna name a place, but I wouldn't go there for four years in the UK. You know, I'd want to do a little bit here and a course over in America online or whatever. So everything changes, but for me, um hope is is really you'll make you you'll make the outcomes you want if you focus on today. You know, you focus on yourself, you get yourself grounded, and you turn up. And if you do that, then the positive things that you always hope for will happen. If I was to say one thing, it would probably be a hope for um the the human aspects of our world in our working world to remain constant. I I don't think that we should um, you know, we're we're born um natural communicators, we're born in groups, you know. We want to communicate, tell stories, have fun, fall out, have fights, make up. And I think that I hope that we um can keep that within this this techno technological world that's keeping us all entrapped in our houses and on our computers, that we can just go and meet people, solve problems together. Um, and um I hope that that still remains part of the um of the model that technology's got for us.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Um yeah, well, well, me too. And that is I still think where all the magic comes, and sex and enabler, but it will never replace that. Uh it never will.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

I've got myself into too many troubles not being understood, you know, whereas uh we'll sit down together and everything everything works out well, you know. So yeah, that the the the critical part of it is that. Yeah, I I agree.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I um I remember um some time ago, you uh you decided you were you're having three consecutive years. One, the year of the body, and you got mega fit, and then in the the mind, you became a doctor, and then it was of the spirit, as I recall. And actually, your last point about presence, it just had a little resonance there of your final year. Uh because there's something very profound about you know, in business, we spend half our time planning, you know, thinking ahead, always doing, but actually, unless you are there now accessing the people, your genius, your energy, then none of that really matters. So, this presence bit really resonates with me.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

It does, and I think um it's it's it's really important in business because there seems to be so much fluidity in business as well, people moving. You know, one of the things I really find difficult is working with a lot of organizations where people are maybe only there one year, two years. Yeah. And I think that making plans for two years and five years is yeah, you know, that shareholders require that. Um, you know, all of that's really important. But none of that's gonna happen if unless everybody's within it together in the present, feeling it, you know, and um that's that that can turn uh turn things into success, not an ambition that's way out there that actually nine-tenths of the room are not even gonna be there, they're gone. You know, they're probably working if you can. They will be gone. Yeah, so that's true. Um focus on now with an idea of where you want to be, but um, you know, it's uh you know, I I I I think the the the first part of our day when we come into work, when everybody's there, you know, just chill into the day, feel it, and then let's get on. It's not about being in get on it straight away. It's um you've got to you've got to feel like you're in a space that will um you know uh encourage you to explore. And um and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Wise words, Dr. Falston. I like it. So look, thank you so much for the insights. It's great having you on. Um, we could do this for hours because there's there's so much in there. But hey, what's coming up? What adventures have you got coming up that are exciting for you?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Um in a in a work world or in uh in a um any world, any world.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

I'm just wondering.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Well, I mean, work has gone really well for us. Um we've ended up winning uh three or four clients just before Christmas, which was really good. Um out the blue as well. Uh we threw everything, threw our heart and soul into it, and that's great. For me, I would love to run, and which I I believe will happen. I want to run another workshop in an amazing place like the pyramids. Uh for me it was a it was a it was I just couldn't believe working class boy from Morecambe running 200 people, international uh brand people, under the under the shade of the uh under the shade of the um of the pyramids. And I did it with uh my uh the the guy that I work with closely and uh you know he's from uh a little mining town in Bathgate, and we just looked at each other going, wow, this is what how could this how could this happen? The opportunities. So for me, um I I I want to for me and the people around me is experience um new places and new adventures uh associated with our work, I think is the that's the lights going out, Chris. I don't know if that's a sign.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Um no, no, I think the thing is still all good. I think the lights are still on. But look, I mean, I love I love I love the idea of uh of more adventures. So look, if anyone's listening uh who've got some exotic briefs for Mark, uh he does amazing work, but obviously he travels beautifully too. So let's put it out there.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

That's uh and on a personal level, I um yeah, I I've signed up for another marathon, and um I uh for about just when COVID hit, I took the biggest injury known to an office boy that tries to get fit. Yeah, I mean the problem with running is that everybody thinks they're an athlete. Yeah, you go and spend 300 pounds on trainers, and you but ultimately you sat on your backside all day, and uh that took its toll, and I ended up with an awful injury, and I've decided that this is the year of fitness again, and so I'm gonna work my way up and try and get to where I was pre-COVID. And um, when uh um Fee would say to me, Fee was the stimulus for this, she goes, You've got to do it. I was like, Why? She goes, You were a much more uh happy soul when you were out running every other day. You know, you'd go, you'd you'd wake up, you'd you'd be moody as anything, down in four cups of coffee, and then you'd go for a run, and it was as if as if you'd been blessed with this spirit, right? And I was like, you know what, you're absolutely bang on. So I've I've signed up for yeah, and I'll uh she does, yeah, she knows what it's like. But yeah, the joy of the joy of doing daily exercise is something that should be part of everyone's life. It just I don't know what it does. Well, that probably you know there'll there'll be a medical reason for it, but it opens you up so much, recreates a better you every single time, and every time I go for a run, I hate it, right? I hate it. Um, it's so painful, and then I come back and I'm just woof, you know, transformed.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

You never regret it, do you, Mark? Once you've been, you never regret it.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

You know, yeah, you never do. It's always there, and it's uh and we're able to do it because you you don't need you don't need to spend a fortune on trainers, you know. I spent all this money on trainers, and I found an old pair of trainers I had from 1992, and they were just the same.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Well, there we go. So look, Mark, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. Wonderful insight. Um really enjoyed chatting, and uh, you know, I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing you in person soon. So look, thanks Mark.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Well, I would I would love that, and I and I'm looking forward to diving into your freshwater pool, um, which is a blessing to anyone. So please keep me posted on that.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

That keeps me safe. Go on, buddy, big love.