AI Won’t Save You, But This Human Skill Might

AI is changing how we work. But if we are going to lead, influence, create, and connect in a more human way, prompts alone will not save us.

In this episode, Chris Baréz-Brown is joined by Frankie Kemp to explore the human skills that matter more than ever in the age of AI: presence, creativity, confidence, communication, play, and genuine connection.

Frankie brings her background in theatre, improv, performance, and communication to show why the most powerful leaders are not the ones trying to “wow the room” — they are the ones who know how to connect with themselves first, then connect with others.

Together, Chris and Frankie explore how people shrink in professional environments, why technical teams often become too “vanilla,” and how theatre and improv can help us expand our range, take up more space, and bring more electricity into the room.

They also dig into why play is more useful than “embracing failure,” how to build real presence without pretending to be someone else, and why our humanity may be our greatest advantage in a world increasingly shaped by AI.

In this episode:

- Why AI makes human connection more important, not less
- The problem with trying to “wow the room”
- How to stop shrinking in professional environments
- Why play unlocks creativity better than pressure
- What theatre and improv can teach leaders
- How presence and charisma really work
- Why changing the world will not happen with prompts alone

If you want to lead with more impact, speak with more confidence, and become a little less vanilla, this conversation is for you.

Watch now to discover the human skill AI cannot replace.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

So it is almost impossible to be a leader these days. There are so many things you have to juggle. It's hard to do anything but just shrink into yourself and become a bit beige. So we are here today to talk about how you become Technicolour and how you get your Elvis out to make sure you have more extraordinary impacts. And today, talk about Technicolor. I'm joined by the amazing Frankie Kemp. Hey Frankie.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Hey Chris, it's nice to be here and get to speak to you.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

It's great to have you on. So for those people who don't know you, can you give us a bit of background about who Frankie is?

SPEAKER_01 0:40

So I help technical teams in pharma, IT, engineering, and all those wonderful sectors across the world to be less vanilla and much more floor. So that means to allow you in your language to allow your Elvis out, but in a way that is acceptable within your organization. Now my my background is theatre and improv, and it's actually still my foreground, as we'll find out today. And it's that mix of performance, and this might sound like an oxymoron, performance, yet authenticity that we can meld to make something true and to lift your norm from here to here because we repress our norm.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Oh, we do. Oh, we do. And look, I'm a huge fan of um of the world of theatre. We've used lots of techniques over the years in our workshops and how we help people. And there are massive unlocks, and for a good reason, because in the world of theatre, you're certainly on stage, you have to embody a persona uh in a way that's so authentic and so engaging that it really gets people's attention. And my god, we can learn something from that world because we need that when we show up in work. So I I'm I'm I'm delighted to have you here because I'm sure I'm gonna learn a lot today. So, so look, um, the first question: what is the story that you love to tell that people love to hear?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Well, I had a real trouble with a problem with this question because when I go into trading, I tell loads of stories who I'm speaking to. I don't know your audience. Uh, I think the common thread is this it's that when you take the lid off yourself, your world opens up. And when I when I left drama school, one of the first things I did because I was in fringe theatre was to get another job. Because basically, fringe theatre is voluntary acting, so I had to get a job, and I remember how it felt being in an office. I was I felt repressed, I held in, and I train people at all different levels. So I might train um engineers or I might train CEOs, and they have that thread in common. Whatever level they feel that they their persona has been tacitly molded by the environment in which they are. Now they are creatures of context, so it is important and it is inescapable that to a certain extent we will mold ourselves to our environment. However, as positive as that could be, because you don't want to necessarily completely ignore the context in which you're in, that is not a useful frame of mind. One also has much, much more space to move, and ultimately, you are given your job or that new position because of the way you are. So, why are you over-contextualizing your behavior? Don't do it, that's not what you're here for, and I you know, I've been plugging into lots of like Taoism and spiritual thinking, and you know, in certain there's there's a certain ethos that when we're born, we're kissed by the angels over here as soon as we come out the womb, and our job as we grow up because that kiss is the kiss where we we forget why we're here and what our pure individual self gives to the world. Our mission as we grow up and we look around us is to realize how our true selves, our true selves, can give and offer back to the world. We're not born of evil, we're born of potential, we're born with great potential, and we forget what that potential is because we over-contextualize our behavior.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I so look, I think we could go on for a few hours on this very topic, Frankie, because this is something very close to my heart. Um so um I totally agree that we we're almost born with amnesia, right? So we forget the essence of who we are, uh, and therefore our job is to remember, which is which is a really interesting challenge. Uh, and then when we remember, I guess that's where you take the the lid off your the top of your head, and then you can be yourself, right? So so have you got any tips on how we can remember and how we can take that lid off? What what is the process? What are the things that you've seen that work best for people?

SPEAKER_01 6:19

So there's a whole combination of things that happen. But you know, I was interesting that because something happened yesterday when I walked into a training room. Young designers. So the funny thing is, I say I teach people in tech, but because of the creative uh element, I also get people from design teams and architects who also get drawn to what I do. So I was doing presentation training, and these were many of them were young graduates, um, very talented, and they present to very experienced, much older people. And one of them said to me, Do you know, Frankie? I feel really small and unimportant when I present, and I wanted to really thank her and weep at the same time, and I did, I said, Do you know that is so brave to say because it is a human experience that is so much more general than you think at every level, and thank you, thank you for saying that. And one of the reasons that people get scared of presenting is this performance anxiety. I say to you, my job, your job is to connect with people, you're just dealing with humans. Your job is to connect, to ask a question, to tell a story, and you know this because you go into training rooms, you go into conferences, you're a keynote speaker, and you're brilliant at this place. You go in and you take a very human experience and you throw it out like a rope, and you know people are gonna catch that. When you are communicating, when you are presenting, your job is not to go, well, the room, because I hear people say this, right? I'm sorry, in your opening few minutes, your job is to wow the room now to delay. That really annoys me. I've actually read a book, I won't tell you the name of the book. Um, it was for introverts, and to quote, it said if you really want to connect with your audience before you present, tell a joke. Shoot yourself in the foot before you present, tell a joke.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

That won't connect because you can't connect with yourself when you're telling a joke. And um, I call these connection devices, they're called spices. So I have a spice rack.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Oh, nice! You got a spice rack.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Yes, a spice rack, and basically I've collated everything. I go through all these presentation books and all these resources, and I've put them all on one page. It's a spice rack. I mean, people overcomplicate things, and and the spice rack is a way is conversational conversational devices that help you to connect with other people. Now, this is the thing about connection, you've got to connect with yourself before you connect with other people. So, how do you do this?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

So, as I was uh I was doing um a keynote, and I always have at least not always, sometimes I have more than one spice, one connection device. Why? Yeah, because I don't know if I feel like asking a question. I actually might feel like telling a story.

unknown 9:59

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

So I would have two up my sleeve, and as I'm walking to the stage, I'm like, wow, oh, I'll do the question. And whatever it is, it's going to connect with the audience because they're connection devices, but I've got to connect with me first and work out. What do you feel like doing, Frankie?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

And that's what and that's vital. I mean, so I think connectivity is the secret to nearly everything wondrous. And I love the fact you start with you, right? So if you can't connect with who you are in that moment, what gives you energy, what you're excited about, why you should give your talents to that moment, then actually you'll never come with that energy that you need, right? So that that's that starting point is absolutely vital. And I love the fact you've got a spice rack. I think I think everyone's got their own spice rack in some way, because over the years you pick up things that work for you. But they are there for a very singular purpose, which is to make sure that human connection happens so that then we can just be in that space and we can do more meaningful work. Um, and and I I like the fact that you're not quite sure which one you're going to use until that moment. Because actually, I I think being able to feel that room and go with that flow is vital. If you go and it has to look the same each time, you lose that essence of who you are and that energetic excitement in that time. Um, so so I think that's that that's that's a key thing to take away. And obviously, there'll be a lot of leaders watching this, right? Who'll be thinking, right, so you know, connecting to people, I get it on stage, but actually, I guess this principle works in any interaction, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

It works in any interaction. So the thing is, you need that balance of guidelines, but be prepared to throw them away. Because when we're working with people, it's a thematic experience. And again, you know, this is why you do your walking and talking.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

And the research backs this up when we physicalise, we think more creatively, we solve problems a lot easier. AI has its limits, but I know I'm writing a show right at the moment, and I I thought, I'm gonna write using AI and see what happens then when it comes out my mouth. So it has its limits, and one must be very aware of this. It is a very somatic experience connection. And for example, I know that if when I'm training in networking, for example, so I'm training in a big finance company for networking, and people think that they need a script that they're holding on to something, and that pressure makes them shut down.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

So I have amongst uh a group of tools is something that my brothers told me years ago when they started networking at the beginning of their careers, they said always have three three questions, two of them should be open, so it's a what or a how. So you can look at it before you go in the room. And what happens is when I do this in workshops, people say I wrote the questions down, and then after I asked the first one, I forgot about the others because I didn't need to ask them.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

You don't need it, yeah. You're off.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah, yes, but there are certain physical guides that I give to people, so I teach them about the notion of matching, and then I show them how matching and mismatching people can break the flow of a conversation and break the connection, or you can turn it around to enforce a connection. There are there's a lot of science behind this, but I want people to experience the the data, and they absolutely all comment that it completely changes the flow of the conversation. So we have certain guidelines, but that allows for flow, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

And look, this allowing for flow thing, I think, is it's gold very key. I mean, the problem is our heads get in the way, right? So we worry about how we're perceived, we want people to love us. Is this a good question or a bad question? We get into that place, and then what we forget to do is just tune into ourselves and the people we're with. And and obviously, if you are in that connected, in tune, energetic place, you can always ask the question what's needed here? What's the thing that's interesting in this moment that we have that may never happen again? And you can only do that if you tune in with some sensitivity and a bit of curiosity, right? So, for me, when you say get into your body, I'm I'm so with you because we've got to get out of our heads. When you when you see, I mean, I I did something the other day for uh a big company who's famous for creativity and their culture, and they said, Look, can you come along and get people a bit more confident about networking? And I was like, Well, I don't, I'm not very keen on that word, but I what I can do is get people in the room having a good time, we can create a party, and it is astonishing how much fear was in the room, how much fear about how they were perceived, how do I start a conversation? And as soon as they started to actually just relax, get into their bodies, have a bit of fun, get a giggle on, things came to them really positively, and then they were like, Oh my god, this is actually this is really good. But it's amazing the pictures we make in our heads, how we go, oh my god, if I say that, it's all badly over the look, I think I'm a fool. And next thing you know, we shrink again, which I guess is part of what you must be brilliant at through theatre skills, make helping people be big, be themselves in that moment, see what's needed and play with it. So, my my my next question would be this if there's one thing that you think is key in releasing the genius of our people, what would that one thing be?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Oh, as you were speaking, there were two words that came to mind. Okay, so I'm stretching the brief.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Hi, you can stretch the brief, Frankie. I'm cool with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Well, there is an overlap. Play. Play. And now play means okay, some people say in certain organizations we encourage failure, right? I hate the word failure because as soon as we do failure, it's almost like a paradox because nobody wants to fail, so we encourage failure, but I don't want to fail, right? We encourage play. Oh now, play is a different word because play, sometimes you get it wrong, okay? Sure. That's part of the game. So, for example, uh again, yesterday presenting, everybody speaks like this because when you when you are in an open plan office, you don't open your mouth very much.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

That's a good insight.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah, vowels carry emotion and consonants carry conviction. So it's very difficult to speak with emotion when you are holding on to your jaw, but you're not on your jaw because otherwise you overproject, and then somebody goes to HR and says, I'm sorry, Chris, it's far too loud. Then you get called into your face and say, Chris, could you turn it down a bit, please? Thank you. So I said to them, You all need to open your gobs, yeah, but it feels unnatural. So we did this game, and it's absolutely bizarre. And they all have to exaggerate. So they were all given something to read. So someone said, Street Porter, you've TV. So you know, I'll have to speak like this, and then normally, and then speak like this, and that you they all go, My god, my jaws are clicking. Their articulation improved, their voices projected more, and the expression went up to the eyes. Now, what am I doing? I'm getting them to play, I'm getting them to push their boundaries so their norm is expanded, but not as expanded as when it was. Now, creativity, we know with creative problem solving, you throw mud at the wall, that's part of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

You've got to divergently think. Now, if people feel it's wrong or that they're going to be edited out, then they'll edit themselves out beforehand. Sure. And what I do when I am with people, and it's any learning environment, is to give a sense of pleasure. So you know, even when I was teaching in academia, I would start off with improv exercises.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, just to loosen people up, warm them up, get them a bit messy, make a few mistakes, have a laugh about it, and then it's much easier for them to then take part. I I a bit of improv goes a long way, right, Frankie?

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Absolutely, and it's not for the sake of it, you know. People might who've never done improv before, they think, oh god, RC drama games. And I'll leave a phone. RC drama games, let's all do a group hug and then go, no, and no, I'm joking. Let's throw it all and say our names. So I mean it myself, but after they've done it, then you know, they would go, can we do another one games? Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

We just gotta have a bit more fun. I mean, I the problem is I think we just take ourselves and our jobs way too seriously. And when we relax and enjoy ourselves, you know, I see this all the time, it's the work that I do, really. I get people to lighten up. They they suddenly, with a smile on their face, they become more of who they are, they bring more energy, they bring more of that creativity because they're not worried about being judged. So I am a huge fan of that. And what I love about some of your approaches, by the way, it reminds me of so I I've managed to hurt my vocal cords because I did too many big events without microphones when I was young, stupidly. I've learned my lesson. And I had to have a voice coach for a while, and I never forget some of the voice acts, some of them I'll never forget. One was I had to say, Mummy makes marmalade in a very particular way. Uh and I had to do all these silly breathing things. But you know what they did? They took me outside of my norm and they stretched me out so that when I came back to it, I just had way better range. And sometimes you need something that just pulls you apart, and it might be not what you'll ever do again, but it doesn't matter. What it's done is it's reshaped you and it's given you much better volume of energy to play in your world, right? And I think that's what theatre does brilliantly, you know. Improv, we don't have to do that every day in our meetings, but by doing so, we stretch off, and now we're a bit larger than we were before.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

That's it. We were we allow ourselves to take up a bit more space with our voice, with our expression. I mean, I've got all these expressive exercises that I've been doing with but you've got I might have to steal them, Frankie. But actually, I want your spice rack as well. Um and basically, you know, you get people to read things in a ghosty voice and you know the experimental voice. And suddenly people are now they're engineers, they're smiling. At you when they say and other people, and they're more expressive with their gesture, they're not speaking like that, but they're more inferred. And we know that presence is one thing that's internalized, and charisma is just the ability to express what's going on inside to the out. It gives you the presence and that electricity that fills the room and makes people listen to you without you pretending to be someone else. We open the range. And you know, there are people who may be listening who go, Yeah, but I have a very serious job. I'm a CT. You say lighten up. But okay, there are times and there's times and a place, but if you can't plug into that and lightening up, you're going to find your problem-solving abilities, and communication becomes more myopic.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Oh, for sure. And look, I I you know it doesn't matter what job you do, you could be a bit more human and a bit more energetic. And by the way, I like that presence with electricity. So so I'm actually writing a new book at the moment. I'm doing quite a lot on that kind of combination because what I'm noticing, so many leaders have got, they're so busy, their heads are so full, they're juggling so many agendas, they're anything but present. They can't actually sit and have a proper conversation with somebody. Now, I don't care what role you've got, you know, if you're CTO, or you need to be present with your people. You need to be able to connect with them and give them full attention. And then if you bring in a bit of electricity, that's where the magic happens, right? So it doesn't matter what what you do, we all need more of that. And actually, with this, you know, amazing technical advances, which are fantastic, and they're going to help humanity. With those, we need to we need to accentuate more of our human advantage. And and and the way you articulate it, I think, is beautiful. You know, presence and electricity. I might be putting that in the book. Let me see, Frankie. I'm stealing everything you say.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Um, so all right, I'll be speaking to my lawyer about coal.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Immediately, immediately. Hey, look, so look, um, I'm loving this conversation. I like the the energy of it. I love the way that you light it when you talk about it. Um, I'd be very interested in this next question. What is it, Frankie, that gives you hope?

SPEAKER_01 24:34

The fact that yeah, everyone's talking about AI. Okay. Now, I think that it reminds me of the dot-com bubble, reminds me of lots of bubbles. Um basically ask Jeeves. Now, there's a lot of things that we can do with AI, it's fantastic. Sure, what it's thrown up is our very humanity, the our creativity, our critical thinking abilities, just to be just two of them. Many qualities that we have as humans that we need more. And what I'm seeing now is generation what what uh letter are we on? Z?

SPEAKER_00 25:19

I've lost count, no idea.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Chroma. Anyway, whatever letter we're on now. It's interesting that they are now doing this, going. I don't want Snapchat.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

They they are wanting now to free themselves. So on one hand, you have this, and on the other hand, you have the gotta get your prompt right. And I think that there's there's room for that because it helps us to work. But it also shows to me we absolutely need connection, we need to be able to connect, to influence, to express. And if we are going to change the world, it won't happen with prompts alone. And there's a lot that needs changing, and that's why we need our very humanity to impact the world.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

I knew we were gonna have very similar beliefs and opinions, and I couldn't be more with you on that word, Frankie. Uh, it is definitely the time for humanity to be centre stage. Um, love it. So, look, what have you got that's coming up that's exciting? What's in the future for you?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Okay, so I mean I've got some lovely sort of keynotes that I'm gonna be doing with the one of them's an AI company, funnily enough. So I'll be talking about influencing the senior leadership teams. So there is that coming up. There's a couple of big keynotes there, but also I'm I'm kind of looking forward to it. But I had my first um collaboration last night, and I'm now uh kind of shitting myself, really. But I'm doing a one-woman show.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Oh wow, how cool!

SPEAKER_01 27:12

So I've got to set the date with the theatre, and I'm like, shall I do September and give myself pressure, or shall I do November and give myself time?

SPEAKER_00 27:22

When is the September?

SPEAKER_01 27:27

I knew put the pressure there because that's really gonna help me, I think.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

I love one moment, Michelle. That's fantastic. Well, look, when that is all done, uh let me know the dates stuff. If I can come along, I'd love to come and see it. I think you'd be amazing. I've really I've really enjoyed having you on. Um, I love your spice rack. I like the way that you are expressing so many things that you know I'm really passionate about. So, Frankie Kemp, it's been an absolute pleasure. Uh, and hopefully, we'll meet in person one day.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Hopefully, Chris has been for a minute. Ciao.