Shinedown - Episode 3 (The Sound Of Madness)

Our Shinedown series continues as we dive into the band's breakthrough album, The Sound of Madness.

In this episode, we cover the lineup changes that followed Us and Them and the challenges the band faced as they entered a new chapter. We discuss the writing and recording of The Sound of Madness, an album that would elevate Shinedown to a whole new level of success and help define modern hard rock for years to come.

As always, we'll be highlighting and dissecting the hidden gems from The Sound of Madness. Those songs that are overlooked and underappreciated and deserve far more attention than they receive.

If you're already a Shinedown fan, or you're interested in the album that transformed the band from rising stars into rock heavyweights, then this episode is for you.

Keep an eye out for future episodes as we work our way through Shinedown's discography and uncover hidden gems from albums such as Amaryllis and Threat to Survival.

For any requests for future episodes, please email: RandM.HiddenGems.Podcast@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Welcome, welcome, welcome to episode three on our Shinedown series. And as I said in the intro, we're covering my favorite Shinedown album by a country mile. I think it's the strongest album, their breakthrough album, most definitely the sound of madness. But before we get straight into the detail, let's cover off what we or do a quick rundown of what we covered in episodes one and two. If you haven't heard them, I do recommend you go and check them out. Episode one, we covered the formation of the band, how Brent Smith was discovered by Atlantic Records through his previous band, Dreve, and was eventually given the ultimatum. You either stick with us and form a new band, or you stay with Dreave and lose your record contract, your developmental record contract with Atlantic Records. He chose to stick with a record company formed Shinedown. Episode one covers that first debut release, Leave a Whisper, and then in episode two, we carry that on. And we cover off the second album, Us and Them. And if you listen to episode two, you may recall the story of Us and Them and how Atlantic Records, the record company, gave the band only six months to write and record all the material for that album. And the band and Brent Smith mainly agreed, and that's what they did. But Brent Smith has been quoted many times since that. He believes that process affected the quality of the songs and the recordings and the writings and everything that went into it for that record, Us and Them. I disagree a little bit. I think there's some strong, strong tracks in that album, and I think it is harshly judged, mainly because of Brent Smith's comments, and obviously he judges it that way, and he's more than entitled to because he's the main songwriter and founder founding member of Shinedown. So he has the ultimate opinion over all. But as a fan, a Shinedown fan, I do enjoy us and them. I think there's some great tracks on there. And I picked out three hidden gem tracks, which go ahead and check out episode two. If you want to learn what those three hidden gem tracks were. Now, if you are new to the podcast, Rock and Metal's Hidden Gems podcast, then you may be new to the format. What do we do here? What do we talk about other than just obviously rock and metal music? Well, we pick a band, in this case Shinedown, and we do a deep dive onto their backstory, the story of their career, really, the ups and the downs. And more importantly, we cover their discography in chronological order, starting from the beginning all the way up to the present day, through a series of podcast episodes. And we will give a little story of the album in terms of the writing process, the big singles to come off it. But more importantly, we will pick out two, maybe three hidden gem tracks that we will dissect and I'll try and hopefully sell to you why these songs are underloved and underappreciated and deserve more respect and should be added to your streaming service music playlist, whether it's Spotify, Apple Music, I don't care. I want you listening to these songs because they've been lost in the shuffle, they've been hiding in the shadows of other songs that get more notoriety. And I am here to stand up for the hidden gems and give them a pedestal to stand on and to finally be noticed. That's why we're here. And as I said, we're here today for episode three on Shinedown, covering their third studio release, The Sound of Madness. Now, let's get into the Sound of Madness, the story of this album, this breakthrough album for the band Shinedown. I mentioned in our recap of episode two how Us and Them was recorded with a six-month time frame. And I mentioned at the end of episode two, but I'll mention it here again as well, that Atlantic Records originally asked Shinedown to do the same thing here for The Sound of Madness, a third studio release. In terms of how the other albums be performed, I mentioned it in those episodes. Leave a Whisper. Originally wasn't the strongest in terms of album sales, but the singles, like 45, for example, and Simple Man, the cover of the Leonard Skinnard song, they did phenomenally well and that brought the album sales up then. It's a debut release. No one heard of Brent Smith or Shinedown before. So it's expected that the album initially won't have that strong launch. It's rare the bands get that boom in the music industry right off the bat. But those singles, they got them then. The album went platinum, which is over 1 million units sold. Now the second album, us and them, the singles were in terms of chart success more successful than the things off Lever Whisper. The album, Us and Them, initially had a stronger start than Lever Whisper, um, but it dropped off a little bit and it only went gold, which is half a million units sold in the US. And now we're coming into the third album. And as I said, Atlantic Records are obviously happy with the sale success of the first two albums. They thought, you know, it went well enough with us, and then we sold enough units. They managed to work within the six-month time frame. Let's do the same for the sound of madness. Why not? They want to get that money quicker, they want to make sure that the band, the brand of the band Shinedown, is in everyone's memory. It's plastered all over radio, music TV channels, wherever people are getting their music fix. They want to make sure Shinedown is all over the magazine covers, etc. And the only way to do that is to keep releasing music regularly. Otherwise, you kind of fall off the wayside a little bit, get a little bit forgotten by the mainstream, the commercialization of it, and uh such it's a bit of a more of a risk when you do eventually come out with that album. Either it'll be a long-lost album, oh, we've been waiting so long for this, we finally got it! In which case, you'll benefit because you'll have the hysteria hysteria and the hype to go with that, or it'll be the case you finally release this album and no one remembers who you are, so no one cares. So it's a risk, and record companies like Atlantic Records don't like to live with risk, they like to have more certainty and more structure, follow the process, follow the bullet point uh plan of what works in the past and will keep making money, which is what they ultimately care about. So I understand from their point of view why they would ask six months to gain on this record, but in this instance, unlike the previous album, Brent Smith absolutely refuses, mainly due to his unhappiness with the process on the previous uh album and the output that came from that. As I said in the recap, he didn't feel the quality of the songs and us and them was up to standard of what they could have achieved had they worked the same way they did in Leave a Whisper. And the way they worked on the first album is they wrote, depending on which interview you listen to and which person you listen to, anywhere between 50 and 500 songs. And then they picked the top 12 or whatever to make the final cut of the album. Uh that wasn't the case with us and them. They didn't have the time to do it. In The Sound of Madness, that's the process they want to get back to. And I say anywhere between 50 and 500, which is a massive number because I've heard Brent Smith in interviews say 50 to 100 songs, and I've heard other people say 500. I think 500 is the exaggerated number for the headlines. 50 to 100 is likely more. The realistic number. Atlantic Records, in the end, agrees to give Brent Smith and Shinedown 18 months, a whole extra 12 months, a whole year extra on top of the six months he originally asked him to do. So Brent Smith wins, Shinedown wins. They defeat the demands of the big record company. They obviously see the potential of Shinedown, they trust and they believe in Brent Smith as a vocalist, as a songwriter, and the rest of the band as well, but things are gonna change on that front. So the th the work on the album, uh Sound of Madness, starts in 2007. There is a bit of a delay, and the reason for that delay is because there's some band lineup changes. Uh, Brent Smith lets both bassist Brad Stewart and guitarist Jason Todd go. They were both featured from the outset, really, with Shinedown. Remember from episode one, I mentioned it in the recap a little bit that Brent Smith was signed to like a developmental contract with Atlantic Records. They told him to basically stick with Dreve and don't have a contract, or come along to this developmental contract and we'll help you find a new band. And Brent Smith had the input to find those band members he wanted to form, Shinedown. The band members weren't forced on him. However, the record company did push him into different areas to kind of help him meet people on a network and find those band members. And those band members were Brad Stewart and Jason Todd, bass guitarist and main lead guitarist too. So sometimes with bands, especially rock and metal bands, uh, they formed back when they were teenagers, maybe in school or just finished school. So they're like longtime friends. So if you have a big fallout, it can be quite bitter and toxic and just an uncomfortable experience for everyone in involved. But different here. It wasn't like Brent Smith knew Brad Stewart and Jason Todd since they were kids. I mean, they grew up in different areas, if you remember. Uh, Brent Smith originally is from Knoxville, Tennessee, and he only goes into Jacksonville, Florida when the record company Atlantic Records tries to help him find these band members for Shinedown. So when he meets Jason, he meets Brad in Knox in uh Jacksonville, Florida. It's not like it's where they grew up. I mean, it's a miles and miles and miles between Tennessee and Florida. I'm sure after Shinedown was formed, Brent Smith became friends with Brad and Jason, but uh it certainly started as a more professional relationship, and therefore professionalism is expected. And the reason why uh Brad Stewart, the bass guitarist, was initially let go is due to disagreements with the direction of the band and the feeling that Brad was no longer happy or committed to Shinedown. Because that professionalism in a band like this where we're all focused on success. Uh, if you are not committed, you're not in the band. So Brad Stewart, he was let go. Now, Jason Todd, bit of a different circumstance. Jason Todd was fired due to major disagreements with Brent Smith and ultimately the real killer, drug abuse problems. It's always the demons when it comes to the rock and roll lifestyle. It's always that drug abuse system that comes in that kind of creates this conflict in these bands. I mean, back in the uh heyday of the rock and roll world, the 70s, the 80s, it's almost expected to live that rock and roll lifestyle with the drugs, the alcohol, the girls, all of it, the destruction, the chaos, the rebel attitude. And maybe then you could get away with it. But things have changed now. I mean, we're in 2007 when this album starts working. They've been formed in since 2003 when Leave a Whisper came out and a little bit before. And although society still looks gracefully upon those bad boy rebels of the rock and roll world of the 80s, like Ozzy Osborne, for example, people do that today with the world of social media, etc. It kind of has the opposite effect. So if you're gonna make in today's world of music, you gotta have that professionalism. And in this case, along with some other major disagreements, uh Jason Todd, he was gone. He's out of Shinedown. Uh Brent Smith himself, and he admits this today, he also had substance abuse issues. However, his substance abuse issues, they weren't uh conflicting with the needs of the band like it was in Jason's case. Uh, his was impacting live shows, touring, recording, etc. It was getting in the way of Shine Down the Band. It was becoming a problem. In Brent Smith's case, it's a little different. He was able to still, you know, make the Shinedown tour date. He's able to make the recording studio, write the songs. He wasn't impacting Shine Down the band in that sense. His substance abuse issues. In addition, Brent Smith really is the main deal in Shinedown. If there's no Brent Smith, there's no real Shinedown. So he has a bit more leeway, a bit more leverage to work with. But most importantly, and Brent Smith deserves credit for this, and he talks about it to this day in many, many interviews. It was around this time that he learned that he was gonna be a father for the very first time. He was gonna be a dad, and that changed his entire outlook on life. And it was in that moment that he made a decision to quit alcohol. It was mainly alcohol that he was uh an addict for, uh, had substance abuse issues with, and he quit, and he's been pretty much quit since that day. Now, a public announcement came in April of 2008, shortly after Jason Todd was arrested in Jacksonville, Florida on charges of disorderly intoxication and resisting an officer. At the time of the arrest, Jason was already kicked out of the band Shinedown. However, it just demonstrates his frame of mind at the time. That's the person they were dealing with. Someone who's getting arrested for being drunk and disorderly in a public uh setting, resisting the police as well. It's not a good look for the band. And if they're gonna be unprofessional in that sense, you can imagine what they were like behind closed doors trying to work with them on a professional manner. So this left only two members of Shinedown left. You got Brent Smith, lead vocalist, main songwriter, working with other professional songwriters as well. And you've got drummer Barry Kirch, who's been there since uh the formation of Shinedown. They're the only two members left. They haven't got a bass guitarist and they haven't got uh an electric guitarist either. So, what are they going to do? Well, before we talk about that, let's have a quote from drummer Barry Kirch about his thoughts during this period. To be honest, uh, I was holding on for deal life. I I think we all were. At that time, we were honestly falling apart. Brent had been let go. Jason actually came to the studio to record the sound of madness with us, but then his problems overtook his ability to do the record as well, so it was Brent and I looking at each other like, okay, we we have a singer and a drummer. How are we going to do this? At the same time, Brent was about to have his son and he was going through his things with drugs and alcohol, so it was a very difficult time. But I think what was holding us together is that we knew we were sitting on something very special. Uh, the quote from drummer Barry Kitch there, who suddenly changed accent. We're gonna listen to a quote now from Brent Smith about this period in his life. Again, different accent to what he has in real life, but let's just let's just go with it. I broke down a lot of walls on this record, a lot of barriers, and was a lot more blunt on this album. I was able to discuss not only my personal issues, but the things that were going on around me, and I'd be very upfront about it. I've been known in the past as being an individual that kind of paints pictures with his words. We want to go and push ourselves as far as we possibly can in order for not only us to feel as if we're doing what we need to do as artists, but the people need to hear the growth in the band, and hopefully they hear that. The comments there from Barry Kirch and Brent Smith. Barry Kirch more on what they're going to do with the fact there's only two of them left in Shinedown, and Brent Smith more in the case of how he's come across in terms of the songwriting in The Sound of Madness and how his emotional state was during this period. Now, Barry also made comments to say that when he first auditioned for the band Shinedown, it was actually Brent Smith's voice that drew him to the project. He didn't feel that it was captured on Leave a Whisperer or us and them, but it put it all back on this album, The Raw Passion. He first heard when he heard Brent Smith's voice. Now, I find that uh interesting that uh Barry Kirch would say those things because in episode one and episode two, I was calling out how in early Shinedown albums, and I'd put the sound of madness in this category as well as the previous two, that Brent Smith is more in his vocal delivery trying to hit all of his range. He's trying to show you how powerful, how high and low he can sing, everything he can do with his voice to make that song hit that crescendo and be more dramatic and powerful. He will do that. I find in more recent releases, he services a song more. Uh, he doesn't hit those high notes as more, blast out that long, hard note. He kind of tones himself back a little bit. And I can see why some people would prefer that because it serves the song more. Personally, for me, I like to hear Brent Smith uh blasting out these notes. Uh, like Barry Kirch, what drew me to Shinedown initially was Brent Smith's vocal ability. It was his voice that drew me, not necessarily all about the songs. I think that changes a little bit in the sound of madness. If you remember from episode two, the song I Dare You and the album Us and Then was my first introduction to Shinedown. So I was a fan before this album came out. And I'd ultimately agree with Barry that uh in this album they certainly do show off Brent's vocal ability so you can hear how powerful, passionate, and soulful it can be. But I don't think they completely missed a trick on doing that either on the first two albums. They had their moments, but maybe they didn't have as many moments as The Sound of Madness does, and we will hear all about that. Now, Brent Smith spent much of 2007 working on new material with Rick Beatto of Black Dog Sound Recording Studios. And if you remember from the previous episodes, he worked with Rick Beatto on Leave a Whisper and Us and Them as well. Not every song you hear in the album is worked with Rick Beatto, but there'll be a handful in each one that Brent Smith worked with Rick Beatto on a Rick Beatto. If you're a YouTuber, as I mentioned in the other episodes, he now has a popular YouTube series, does many, many different types of videos all around music. The one that tends to get the most traction, hit my algorithms, is usually when he's counting down the top 10 Spotify tracks of the previous month and usually ripping them apart, basically. So he's working with Rick Beatrice, and sessions were prolific, and they wrote over 60 songs. So they're going back to what they did on the first album, Leave a Whisper. They are writing more songs than they need, and they are picking their favorites. So Shinedown is just down to two members now, a drummer and a vocalist. And obviously that is a problem. They knew that was a problem, but at the moment they just head down, get the songs written, and see how we end up. So that was the focus. Get the album The Sound of Madness written and recorded. And we'll worry about the other things later. We'll use studio musicians to get the recording done. And when we want to go on tour, we'll work something out. We'll get permanent members in. Maybe we'll just work with more studio musicians, but for touring rather than recording, let's just get the album done. We've got a contractual liability to service an album within 18 months for Atlantic Records. Plus, they want to keep this project going, they want to keep Shinedown going, and they're excited. As Barry Kirch said, they're excited with the material they were writing, and they were correct to do so too, because, as I've said, it's by far the best Shinedown album, uh, in my opinion. So, who were the studio musicians working alongside the recording of this album? I'll mention some names. You probably won't know the people themselves, but you may know some of the bands they've worked with. So we got Dave Barrett, contributed most of the guitar work. On the album. Tim Pierce. He previously worked with Michael Jackson, Phil Collins, the Goo Goo Dolls, Alice Cooper. He also added some guitars. There was Chris Cheney from Jane's Addiction contributing most of the bass guitar on the album. And there were also contributions from Bobby Huff, Dale Oliver, David Campbell, and Jamie Mohobarak. Now, demos are recorded, songs are written, and they were sent by the record label to producer Rob Cavallo. Rob was best known for working with this band, the Goo Goods. Producer Rob Cavallo also worked with this band, Green Day. Rob Cavallo was brought in as music producer for this album and he's got credentials, right? Working with the Goo Goods, Green Day. Two huge, huge rock bands there. Not just rock bands that had one or two hits or one or two successful albums. They were rock bands that stood the test of time and are still going today. They're still selling out arena tours today. They're a huge band today, just like they were in the 90s and the 2000s. So Rob Cavallo has some pedigree behind him, and obviously that's why the record company, Atlantic Records, more than likely, chose him to kind of help shine down on Brent Smith here with this album. And Brent Smith was quoted regarding Rob Cavallo as saying, Rob Cavallo has a sound, and when he's there, he has a sound, and it's exactly what we needed. We needed someone who is going to take the shine down of Leave a Whisper and Us and Them, which was kind of a disjointed or just young. And he was able to take that us to the next level. And I I kind of agree with that. I've said it on the previous episode, as much as I like Leave a Whisper and Us and Them. It is a bit of an early 2000s, mid-2000s, kind of very much synonymous of the time sound. That post-grunge new metal kind of sound that was all over the rock and metal scene of that era. It had that youth sound to it, that immaturity. And I would absolutely agree that on The Sound of Madness, it is the start, and in my opinion, the pinnacle of Shinedown moving in that more mature direction. It's definitely more mature songwriting on this album, and I hope you hear that when we play some clips from it. So we're back in the studio, right? We're writing a new album, we're recording a new album, we've got our studio musicians there. That's all taken care of. We've got this big record music producer now with uh a pedigree behind him, a history of success in Rob Cavallo. We were working with the likes of Rick Beato again, some songwriters there, and obviously we've got Brent Smith still at the helm, as well as drummer Barry Kirch. So we're okay, but what are we gonna do about the tour that we obviously have to do to promote and support the album release? Well, a new lineup for the band was created. Nick Perry became lead guitarist. He was previously in a band called Silvertide. He only stays for 2008 to 2009, covering the tour of this album, however, and we'll come back later on to what happens after that. Uh Eric Bass becomes bass guitarist. Now, I don't know if this is pronounced Eric Bass or Eric Bass, but the fact he's a bass guitarist, regardless of what his mama and his papa named him, let's be honest, he now has to be Eric Bass, right? There's no way you can be a bass guitarist with the name the surname spelled B-A-S-S and not be called bass. If you're Eric Bass, sorry, you're changing the pronunciation of your name. Don't have to change the spelling because it's the same. You have to change your pronunciation, you're now Eric Bass. Eric Bass. I needed Eric Bass. What am I doing? It's now Eric Bass. He's now your new bass guitarist. Zach Myers becomes a rhythm guitarist. He previously toured with the band and he's filled in when Jason Todd and Brad were having babies in the past and getting some time off to some paternity leave, if you will. So he's been with the band in and around. He's done some gigs with the band as like a backup musician touring with them. Probably a bit of a roadie there as well, being a guitar technician. He's now rhythm guitarist, and he later becomes lead guitarist when the Nick Perry from Silvertide, I've already mentioned, leaves after the tour for the sound of madness ends in 2009. So we've got a lineup. We've talked about the recording process, the songwriting process a little bit. Now let's get into the album itself. It's called The Sound of Madness. It was released on the 24th of June 2008, and it is Shinedown's most successful album. It's produced a multi-platinum single, two platinum singles, and four gold singles. At the time when it was released in 2008, there was generally positive reviews. Melodic gave it 4.5 out of 5, so almost perfect scores from them. IGN, still going today, major, major media outlet for the music, gaming, TV shows, movies, anything as pop culture, they gave it 7.3 out of 10. Alternative Addiction gave it 4 out of 5. So good scores there. Almost perfect scores. I think they should get perfect scores myself. If I personally was rating this album in 2008 or today, I'd probably give it a 5 out of 5. I really, really do love this album. I haven't said it enough already. Now it got to number 8 on the US Billboard Top 200 albums. It got to number 8 on the UK rock and metal charts. And it got to number 3 on the US Top Rock Albums. There was a deluxe edition, it was also released on the 23rd of November 2010. So a little over two years after the initial release. And I mentioned it, and you'll find out why later in a bit. But like Lever Whisper, like us and them, there was a deluxe edition. And this one follows the format more of Lever Whisper. In Lever Whisper, you had the initial success of the album, a kind of a lukewarm success. Then the singles came out, single especially 45 came out and it got a boom. And the record company wanted a piggyback off that boom, so they released a deluxe edition. It was the original album with bonus tracks. And those bonus tracks primarily were either either acoustic songs of popular tracks already on the album, like 45, or it was the tracks that were written were pretty good, but didn't quite make the final cut. They kind of made the cut here on the deluxe edition. And when I say these songs didn't make the final cut, I don't mean they weren't good enough. In some cases, it was splitting hairs between this song or the one that did make the album. In some other cases, it could have been a great, great track, but they might have felt he had too many ballads or too many heavy up-tempo tracks, and they just didn't make the cut for that reason. So it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad songs. And you're gonna find out in a little bit. With one of the singles, let alone one of my hidden gems, why it's absolutely the case of so many songs that didn't make the initial release is well worth making the release. They are not bad songs. So with us and them, they had a deluxe edition, but it didn't have the same promotional Lever Whispers that Deluxe Edition had. They released some of the bonus tracks that were released on the deluxe edition as promotional singles to promote the deluxe edition. So the cover of the Linned Skinnet song, Simple Man, was one of those. That was originally not on the album, it was on the deluxe edition, and they released it as a promotional single to get more sales. They didn't do that with us and them. The deluxe edition came out, there was no promotional single design purely to push that. Not the case on the sound of madness, which is why I bring it up at this point. There are two new songs that were originally recorded for movie soundtracks that do make the deluxe version of this album. Which movies are these songs recorded for? Well, the first song recorded purely for a Hollywood movie that was included as one of the bonus tracks in the deluxe version was a song Her Name is Alice, and it was written for Alice in Wonderland, the Tim Burton remake. Let's have a quick listen to Her Name is Alice. Her name is Alice there from the Alice and Wonderland soundtrack, which is quite uh interesting in that on Spotify at the moment that has more streams than one of my hidden gems coming up. And considering that's just a bonus track, that's not as well known as the other bonus tracks, that's quite the achievement. Now, the other bonus track on this album that was originally recorded and written purely for a Hollywood movie is a song Diamond Eyes Boom Le Boomley Boom! And the movie it was written for was Sylvester Stallone's The Expendables, and we'll talk more about that in a little bit because spoiler, that ends up becoming one of the promotional singles for this album. So we'll go through those singles in chronological order. Now, two songs, Be the Same and Seasons, were written around this time but didn't make the cut to be on the album, and both songs were eventually recorded and released by a different band. Instead of Shinedown recording and releasing these songs, a band called One Less Reason did in 2010. Let's have a quick listen. The first one we're gonna hear is the song Be the Same. There, let's listen to the other Shinedown song they recorded and released it instead of Shinedown. This one's called Seasons. Now, it's just interesting that you hear about this in the pop world. For example, there's a a British boy band from the 90s, early 2000s called Five, and very famously they turned down, I believe, the song Bye Bye Bye by NSYNC. NSYNC went on to record and release it instead to huge success. And I think it rolls reverse. I think there was a song that Five actually did, and another famous boy band turned down that was very successful in the end for Five. So you see this in the pop world, these kind of songs being written by um usually songwriters working for record companies or trying to sell songs to record companies. Um, I think famously as well, Hit Me Baby One More Time was originally meant for someone else other than Britney Spears. Interesting how they can just kind of swap artists, you know, aim for this one, but maybe it ends up with another one and they get success. And it's all an interesting story. It's like, oh what if like the movie equivalent is the fact that Will Smith was originally attempted to be cast as the role of Neo in The Matrix. Obviously, in the end, it went to Keanu Reeves and became extremely successful for Keanu Reeves and as a franchise. And I imagine Will Smith um regrets turning that one down, but it's always interesting, and you see that in the pop world. Now you're seeing it in the rock world as well, with these songs written by not a songwriter in the sense that it is in the pop, but by a band, in this case, Shinedown, and how a completely different band decided, I like that song. I think it's good enough to release. Shinedown maybe didn't make it, make their final cut on the album, but we will take it on, we'll record it and make it our own. And it's just I find all that stuff quite interesting. A little bit of Easter egg fun facts. Now we're gonna get to the first promotional single for the album, The Sound of Madness. This one came out on May 5th, 2008. So basically a month before the album release. It went to number one on the US mainstream rock charts. Now, if you remember from previous episodes, Shinedown have the record for the most number one singles on the US mainstream rock chart of all time. 40 plus years this chart goes for. It's an incredible achievement. We had the first of those singles that made it to number one off the previous album, Us and Them, and that was the song Save Me. It didn't have any of Leave a Whisper. Here's number two. It's called Devour. And it really kicks this album into gear. It's up tempo, it's in your face, it's hard rock, and I love it. And it shows you where this album is going and where shine down have come from their previous two releases. Here we are. This is the album where we announce ourselves to the hard rock world, and maybe to some of the metal world as well. They're not a metal band, they are in the more rock realm. I'm not gonna pretend they are metal, but this song is quite heavy, and there's some other songs in the album that can get quite heavy. Yes, they're not slipknot heavy or whatever, but they've got some distortion in there, they've got some drop tunes in there, and they kick ass. This song kicks ass. And I remember when it first came out, remember my first introduction to Shinedown was the song I Dare You off Us and Them, and then I listened to Us and Them and Leave a Whisper. So I had those downloaded and listening on my playlists before this album came out. I was listening to this album on release. This song came out a month before the album. This is my introduction to it, and I remember loving it. And it was doing the rounds at the time, so I'm quite surprised today in 2026 to find it not even in the top five streamed songs on Spotify on this album. Very surprised. I thought it was a dead cert for top three, but it's not even top five, and that does surprise me. Now, this song featured in Rock Band Madden 09, WWE Knight of Champions pay-per-view in 2008. It featured in the 2009 version of the Final Destination franchise called the Final Destination. And it's also featured throughout the 2008 Major League Baseball season. Um, and I've noticed even up to today, sometimes I'll be watching some American sports, more common in American sports because they have more ad breaks. It's more the American culture to have the kind of stop-start nature to their sports. So during the ad breaks, they're usually pumping music into the stadiums, and more often than not, I can hear Devour being played. So how is this not in the top five in this album streamed numbers-wise? Crazy. What is a song about? A song is about an anti-Iraq war song, effectively. A letter to President George W. Bush, who was the president at the time. Brent recalled visits to the Middle East in the past and speaking with the soldiers and coming out of the experience with something personal. I quote. It was such a mind-opening experience because I was watching a lot of news before I went over there as to what media was giving us over here. The fact was, when I got home, this song came to me out of pure frustration as to why there is no answer to bring these men and women home. At the end of the day, it's about survival. I do not feel in any way, shape, or form that these soldiers should be submitted to this when half the time they don't really know what they are why they are still there. There's never an answer, and that's where the song came from. So that's our first single from The Sound of Madness Devour. Now we're gonna move on to our second single from The Sound of Madness. This one also went to number one on the mainstream rock charts. It went to number seven on the US Billboard Hot 100, which is all genres of music in the US. Incredible achievement to get anywhere near the top 20. They got number seven. This, in terms of commercial success, is the biggest single success uh for the band. It came out in the 9th of September 2008, and it went three times platinum in the US overall, which was three million sales, and that song is second chance. It's just about a rock song, but let's be honest, there's a lot of pop to it as well. But it's very much a shine-down ballad, a classic shine-down ballad, especially of the Sound of Madness era. Great melodies, great tune, lovely beautiful chord progression. But the main reason why I think it was such a widespread hit is because a Brent Smith's delivery took me d. I deliberately played the end of the song with the bridge leading to the final chorus, so you could hear Brent hit that note of this is Match! Which I can't do, but I saw him live and he nails it live, trust me. It's exactly like the studio recording, even live. If anything, it's more powerful. That sounds great, his delivery sounds great, but the lyrical content, it's so humanly relatable. You know, the lyric in the chorus tell my mother, tell my father, I've done the best I can to make them realize this is my life. I hope. They understand. There's so many different nuances to that, and how many different people can relate to that message. The message is almost universal. Your parents always want what's they think is best for you, but you don't always think that's best for yourself. And you have to do what's best for yourself, what you believe in. In the case of Brent Smith writing the lyrics for this song, I'm sure he was talking about just trying to make it in the music industry, an industry that's very hard to make it into. And a lot of parents worry about their children and think maybe they should stay in school, try and get a degree and go into some sort of education where they got a guaranteed high-paying, successful job at the end of it. Going into something like the music career, trying to get a movie theater career, all that kind of stuff in the arts. You need a bit of luck, right time, right place to make it, as well as talent. And yeah, the talent, but you still got the risk that the talent isn't seen or isn't given that chance. So I didn't mean to say chance and pun unintended. Remember the song's called Second Chance. So that's where Brent Smith's approaching, and I gave some quotes about the meaning of the song from Brent in a moment. But think of all the other scenarios where that could be the case. For example, you could be a daughter who's doesn't want kids. You know? Parents want to be grandparents, but you just don't want kids. It's your life. I hope they understand. You could be, for example, uh a minority that's discriminated. You could, for example, you could be homosexual, right? Or part of that LGBTQ plus community. Parents don't always understand, especially religious parents. You can see where that message would come in. This message is a case of I'm gonna live my life. I don't want you to feel bad about that. I still love you, and I hope you understand, but I just gotta do this. So it's very much it's not a sad song, it's uh an empowered song. Let's get that quote from Brent Smith. I felt this was by far the hardest song I had to write on the record. It was about the subject matter, about the song, and what I had to do in order to break down the walls around me to discuss what my childhood was like and my upbringing and where that song really came from. To have it finally be heard by the people was a big deal to me. It's important for you to hear this. When I grew up, everyone was okay with being in a bubble. They were cool in their circle, that's fine. But no one should discourage someone if they have a dream, if they want something more. This song was difficult for me to write because the lyrics is about my mother and my father, and about the day I said goodbye to them because I had to go to try, and I'm still trying every day to become a man. So this song is about that. It's about the moment that you wake up and you decide you want to go for every single dream you ever want. Quote from Brent Smith, lead vocalist of Shinedown Brother. So, some more examples. Let's say your parents are really sporty and you're not. I hope you understand. Let's imagine you want to go in the military and your parents don't, because they want to make sure you don't get harmed. I hope you understand. There's so many different ways that can relate to you as a person. I think that's why the single was so successful for the band. Now let's move on to the third promotional single off the album. It came out on the 23rd of February 2009. It is a titled track of the album, but it drops one single word just to differentiate yourself a little. The third promotional single off the album, The Sound of Madness, is a song, Sound of Madness. Such a good song, in my opinion, probably the best song on the album. It's the one they still play live every single show. They couldn't get away with not playing this live. I think Shinedown fans love it. And I loved it in 2008 when I first heard this album. It was a standout track. That opening riff, the one that plays in the verse as well. It's just so, so catchy. And then the chorus is so sing along along as well. You know, everyone wants to sing along to that chorus. It's easy to sing along. Uh, great, great track. And if you didn't notice, when he introduced the track, it is slightly different to the title of the album by one word. They dropped the word the from the beginning. So instead of the sound of madness, it's just sound of madness. That is the most pointless knowledge you are gonna learn from this podcast episode. But I hope you enjoyed it, because I love a bit of pointless knowledge. Uh, this one sold uh one million sales, so it reached platinum in the US. And the song was trialed at live shows prior to the album's launch. This is where the decision was made for this to be the album title track effectively, and it's written from the viewpoint of watching a loved one self-destruction and trying to offer support. Uh let's move on to the fourth promotional single. We've got six to get through, so let's get through them. The fourth promotional single, this one came out on the 6th of October 2009. So we're still releasing singles off the back of the initial album launch. None of these are supporting the deluxe version yet. Uh, this is the fourth single, it's went platinum in the US, so over a million copies sold. This one also reached the Hot 100 US Billboard charts for singles. It didn't get as high as Second Chance, which got number seven. This one got number 42, and it's called If You Only Knew. Now, Brent Smith said he would never write a love song, and if you only knew was his first. It was written about his then fiance while she was pregnant with his son. Brent Smith quote, I've never really had the words for such a song, a love song. But the words to the song, they just came to me in a flood. It's just from the bottom of my heart, the way that I feel about her and the way that I feel about my son. So it's a very beautiful emotional love song for him. And it is a good song. I do like it. It does have pop hooks to it, so I can see why some diehard rock and metal fans may be against it. But it's definitely in the realm of rock, more so than Second Chances. Uh, and it's obviously a successful track for the band. Now, the final single to come out before the deluxe edition came out was the fifth single from the album came out on the 6th of April 2010. So this is a year and a half after the album's initial release. So they're they know they got a golden goose on their hands, and they're really, really pushing it here. Not just to get them further album sales, but to rake in that money that the bands got from their fans for some of these singles. This one also reached the US Billboard Hot 100, but didn't get as high as the other two. This one only got to number 97, so only just made the cut for the Hot 100. Still an achievement, though, shouldn't be undersold. They got the gold in the US, which is half a million copies sold, so again, not quite as successful as the other singles, but still not too shabby. Most bands would love to have that kind of success. And the song is quite a dark one. It's about uh a mother dealing with the death of her child and trying and failing a little bit to move on with the grief. It was first introduced in 2007 before the album even came out on the Buckethead show during an acoustic session, and the song is called The Crow and the Butterfly. Now, for the record, I like every song in this album I did in 2008, and I do still today. But if I had to find a weaker song on the album, for me it always was the crow and the butterfly, even in 2008. Now, back then I didn't know the subject matter of what the song is actually about. I only actually learned that when doing the research for this podcast. So it does change the tune. I mean, I heard the lyrics before, but I never really took in the meaning. I just kind of assumed it was about like an ex-partner or something. I didn't realize it was about a parent and uh uh no longer with us, unfortunately, child. And being a father myself, I can absolutely see now the emotion involved in this song. And for some people, it's probably quite difficult to hear. For some people, it could be healing. For other people, it could be a bit too far, a bit too dark for them to cope with emotionally at this time. For example, with the opening lyric, I painted your room at midnight. Do I know yesterday was over? There's a line further in the first verse. I took all your pictures off the wall and wrapped them in the newspaper blanket. It's very it's very uh visual in its description, so I can see why especially some others would struggle to maybe listen to that song. But at the same time, see the emotion and in some ways the beauty of it. The final single from the album The Sound of Madness, the final promotional single before we get to the hidden gems, and it's three of those. Was released on the 15th of June 2010. So this is a single that was used to promote that deluxe version of the album that came out uh later on in 2010. This is only included on the deluxe edition. It wasn't part of the original album released, despite being the single coming out a few months before the actual deluxe edition of the album came out in November. Remember, this came out in June. It was originally written, I mentioned, for the movie The Expendables, Sylvester Stallone's movie The Expendables. And it's called Diamond Eyes. Boom Lib Boom Lib Boom. Before we listen to some of this song, which I imagine some of you would have heard because it's another big song for them. Always played at live shows. And again, another one of those songs that you will occasionally hear at American sports events. It seems to do the rounds. I mentioned it's written for the Expendables. Sylvester Stallone literally requested Shinedown write this song for his movie. The caveat being that the song had to have a chant of boom lay, boom lay, boom. Which is why maybe at times that although it works for the song, it doesn't sound very shinedowny having him going boom leom leom. Um it works in a live setting and it works in this song, but it's not very shinedown, but that was an actual request from Sylvester Stallone. And it's because he was inspired by a poem called The Congo that had that chant as a section of the poem. The poem came out in 1915, so it's an old poem by Nicholas Vashel Lindsay. Uh I'll quote some of the poem for you now. While the witchmen laughed with a sinister air and sang with the scalawags prancing there. Walk with care, walk with care, or Mumbo Jumbo, god of the Congo, and all of the other gods of the Congo, Mumbo Jumbo will hoodoo you Beware, beware, walk with care. Boom lay, boom lay, boom le boom, boom leom li boom le boom. Boom le boom lip boom lip boom boom lip boom lip boom lip boom I try to give it a dramatic effect. I hope I achieved it somewhat, even just a little bit, but I've gotta be honest. Trying to dramatically uh deliver the lines boom lay boom lay boom over and over, I felt silly doing it. I hope I didn't come across as silly for you hearing it, but maybe I did, and if not, I hope I entertained you. But Sylvester Stallone read that poem and he was inspired to make Shinedown write a song with that lyric, a chant, I should say, uh, in the song. It had to be in the song. That was the caveat by Sylvester Stallone. Now, Shinedown the band, I mean they've had some success. This is their breakthrough success. They're not gonna turn that down, are they? They're not gonna turn down the opportunity to write a song for a movie by Sylvester Stallone. And a movie at that which, if you know about the the Expendables franchise, this was the first movie of the franchise, so this is the big boom, the big hit that hit the cinemas or the theat or the theatres, as you say, elsewhere in the world. And the theme of the movie, the unique selling point of this movie in this franchise, is that it contains all of these legendary action stars from Hollywood. So obviously Sylvester Stallone, he wrote the script, I believe. He pushed the project, and he obviously stars in it. But he stars alongside Jason Statham, Dolph Lundgren, who's famous from the Rocky series, Jet Lee, and there's also Randy Cator, the UFC champion, Stone Cold Steve Austin, is in it. You've also got Mickey Rourke, Terry Cruz. There is loads of stars, and in the sequels, they bring even more stars into it. That's the selling point. So this was the first film, and you know kind of what they're going for. This is the first film of this style to ever be done with this collection of action stars. Why would you not want to be a part of that? So they're obviously gonna say yes, and they'll take whatever demand Sylvester Stallone throws at them. This song was also the secondary theme for WrestleMania 27, and eventually the opening theme for WWE's show main event from October 2012 to January 2014. So over a year it was the opening theme song for a TV show. Admittedly, it's not WWE's main show, Monday Night Raw or SmackDown. It is a well, not even gonna say secondary show, it's uh whatever that term is for the third most popular show at the time called Main Event. But still, still, you're not gonna turn down that free publicity. And being the secondary theme for WrestleMania 27, uh, it was sitting behind the song by the band Saliva called Ladies and Gentlemen. I know because WrestleMania 27 was in Detroit, Michigan, and it was the only time I've ever attended a WrestleMania live. It was my 18th birthday present. Look at that. So I was there for this event. So I heard Diamond Eyes loads of times. I heard ladies and gentlemen buy saliva loads of times as well. Um, let's have a quick listen now for Diamond Eyes. Boom le boom le boom. They're Diamond Eyes, Boom Le Boom Le Boom. Something I didn't mention before is that Stallone asked Shined on to write something that will personify not only the South, but what rock truly is. And I think they did a good job there of achieving that aim, that requirement from Sylvester Stallone. Uh, it went gold in the US with half a million copies sold, but since the initial release, it's taken on a bit of a life for its own. You can tell that by the Spotify streams, but in fact, you occasionally hear it in other soundtracks to this day, and the band still play it live in every single show. Here's a kicker though. I've done a big build up about how Sylvester Stallone requested this song with these lyrics, this chant to be in his movie, this big movie called The Expendables, with all these huge Hollywood action stars. It's gonna be huge! Such good publicity for the band. And guess what? The song didn't make the theatre cut of the movie. If you saw this movie in the theatre in the cinema, you will not have heard this song. Maybe in the end credits, you would have heard it eventually, but it was not in the actual movie itself. It did make it into the director's cut of the movie. But unless you specifically go looking for the director's cut on DVD, Blu-ray, whatever, you're not gonna hear it. So a bit of a shame for the band there, but still cool to be asked by Sylvester Stallone. That's a story you gotta tell your grandkids. Now, we have gone through the promotional singles, all six of them. Yep, that's loads. Even the one that made the deluxe edition, and we are now gonna make it to our hidden gems. My hidden gems from the album The Sound of Madness. And the first hidden gem we are gonna cover and dissect is track number four on the album, and it's called Cry for Help. Cry for Help. It's probably the heaviest song on the album, at least the initial release of The Sound of Madness. And it hit me on day one, and it still hits me today. Love this song. Don't know why it doesn't get the credit it's deserved, but that's what the meaning of the hidden gems are about. It's these songs that are great, but for whatever reason, just get drowned out by the others and kind of get lost on the wayside. And we don't want that, we're gonna raise them up here. Now, I love the way the opening riff comes in. It doesn't hold back, it's straight in your face with a bum bada bamba bamba da straight in your face. You know this is gonna be a kick-ass heavy rock song that I'm gonna have to headbang to, and that's exactly what I do when I hear it. The other thing I want to pick out from that opening section is the way it all just calms down, but still got this heavy kind of atmosphere about it. And when Brent Smith is singing these first couple of lyrics, I love the rhythm to it. The you've been hiding out for quite a while now, living other people you know. And even the next line the trying to raise a little money to pay off all the monkeys that you met inside the rabbit hole. It's like Brent Smith is telling us a story. He's doing some storytelling time, which is really cool, but he's doing it as like that kind of I I get like the kind of creepy storyteller vibes. I don't know about you, but image in terms of the imagery I'm getting, I'm imagining him kind of telling me almost like the start of a spooky horror tale almost. But I love the rhythm of it. He's kind of he's got the lyrics down to the point where the syllables matter, the words he uses matter, not in terms of maybe the poetic nature of it or the prose. With lyrical content in terms of the meaning, but I mean in terms of just that snappy live another people you know. It's like Robin going, living off the people you know. It's like living other people you know. You get the rhythm. Can you hear me say ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba? You need that rhythm in the song. He does it perfectly. I love it. Now let's get back to Cry for Help. Sorry to cut it off there right before the chorus. I promise we will get back to that chorus. But a few things I wanted to point out. I love the way the second half of the verse, the drums kick in, gives it an extra drive. And I mentioned about the rhythm of the lyrics in that first part of the verse. Changes a little bit in the second part when he's like, You're taking candy from the white witch, you're smoking tea with mama kin. Notice at the end of the lines, Brent Smith, he's not just going, White Witch, Mama Kin, he's going candy from the White Witch, tea with Mama Kin. He's going up at the end, and the reason why he's doing that is because he's complimenting the guitar that's also playing in the background. Interesting as well to point out. I haven't mentioned this yet, and I should have mentioned it earlier. But I believe this is the only Shinedown album where it officially has both a rhythm guitarist and a lead guitarist. Two guitarists officially on this record. Every other Shinedown release has one guitarist in Leave a Whisper and nothing to them, it's just Jason Todd. And in the rest of the Shinedown releases, spoiler, it's just Zach Myers, who in this one is just a rhythm guitarist with Nick Perry being lead guitarist. Nick Perry leaves, Zach Myers just plays everything by himself. So interesting there that this is the only Shinedown album that has two guitarists officially, let's be honest, they're recording more than one guitar's in the mix. But you get the idea for when they're playing live. This would have been the only time you could have seen Shinedown Live with more than one guitarist. Interesting thought. But what he's doing there, Brent Smith with the White Witch and the Mama Kin lines, is matching the guitar. And he does that even more than in the bridge to the chorus. This pre-chorus section, the bit, the bit that goes, Because your man is weapon C and it's got you on your hands and knees! All of that is copying the guitars and the rhythm and the drums and everything. And then even it just doubles down on it, then straight afterward with the pull the trigger if you're gonna we gana that you wanna. All of that is coming together with the instrumentation and Brent Smith working in harmony together, but with the aggression together. It's not just the notes and the rhythm that play in harmony together, but it's the feeling, the emotion that the instruments and Brent Smith is giving off. Especially in that first part of that bridge where it's like, because the mind is a weapon see and it's got you on your hands and knees, the way it's the guitar comes, the bow. And every time he does bow, that's when Brent Smith is doing because the mind is a weapon see. It's just because it's boum, bow, bow, bow, bow. It's the same riff you hear to the very beginning of the song, just coming back in. Now, enough of me yapping and waxing lyrical about this song so far. Let's get to the chorus. Let's listen to the main hook of the song, shall we? Cry for help. So you hear the chorus there, good little chorus, but where it really punches it and becomes great for me is the end of the chorus when the drums almost kicks in with double time, is really going with that last line of No Angel's Gunner. Love the way it builds up to that crescendo at the end of the chorus. And it's not just Brent doing it this time, the drums are really kicking in, and the guitars are too. It's really, really great building of the chorus for me. Got the sing-along part at the beginning with the you better pray that there's another way. You know, you got this sing-along part at the beginning, but it just comes in with that big crescendo. Everyone comes together and I love it. And then right after that, then the main hook of the riff, uh, the main riff of the song, I should say, the main theme of the song, the thing the song opened with, that comes back in. It's also the same instrumentation you get in that pre-chorus or the bridge to the final well, not just the final chorus, but any chorus is a bow-ba-da-bomb-ba-bound-ba-da-da-da-da-da-da. But because you've heard the pre-chorus once with Brent Smith singing over that riff, now when you hear it after the first chorus when it comes back in, you can almost hear Brent Smith singing his lines over it because it matches the guitars so expertly. But this time obviously he's not. It's just a bit of an instrumental piece of music. And then we get into verse two. Now, verse two, I've talked about how Brent Smith is working in harmony with the rest of the band here throughout this song. You hear it again in verse two. Listen to the guitar and Brent Smith kind of working together and playing the same harmony with each other. Not the main rhythm guitar, but the kind of higher pitched, uh noted lead guitar in the background. Never listen. That's the main thing I love about this song. It's the energy. And everyone bringing the same energy. It's not one part of the song or one person in the song, the guitar, or the vocalist, or the drums. It's all of it coming together, working it in the same energy together, the same rhythm, the same aggression emotion. I love the song. Such an underrated song. I was surprised it was even eligible for Hidden Gem Territory. I thought the Spotify streams would take it out of eligibility, but apparently not. And I'm happy to make my life easy so I can, as soon as I saw all the Spotify streams, the kind of songs they played, the live shows, as soon as I saw where this was on that list, I was just happy because I bam! Cry for help. That's one of my hidden gems right there. I don't have to hunt for hidden gems in this album. It's hitting me smack bang in the face. Just like this song hits you smack bang in the face with its energy. Now, what is the song actually about, however? Well, good question. Again, another one of those songs like we've had in previous episodes where I can't find an interview or anything where Brent Smith has been asked directly because with the Sound of Madness, no matter how popular that album is, you tend to be asked about the songs like Second Chance, The Sound of Madness, uh, The Crow and the Butterfly, if you only knew. You get asked about those ones more than our hidden gem today cry for help. So we're going with uh whatever we interpret the lyrics to mean. And drug addiction, I believe, comes into it. It's heavy drug used to being talked about here. And is also the theme of the old fairy tale classic, The Boy Who Cries Wolf. The boy who cries wolf, I'm sure you all know it. Uh, boy thinks it's funny, pretend there's a wolf in the uh in the I can't know if it's a farm or a village, but obviously they've got cattle. They care if there's a wolf around because it'll eat their chickens and whatever else they're farming. He pretends that there's a wolf around, they keep coming back and they go, oh look, there's no wolf, the boy's laughing. And then one day there is really a wolf, the boy shouts to say there is a wolf outside, and no one believes him anymore because he's lied so much in the past, and unfortunately, the wolf eats all the chickens or whatever else they're farming. It's one of those fairy tale stories that's slightly different depending on where you hear it, because it's so old. A bit of Chinese whispers going on in different cultures, but the message and the metaphor of the story, which is what it's really written about, is all the same. Don't lie because eventually people aren't gonna believe you. You've got that here as well, but this time it's about a drug abuser. The drug abuser is a liar. He's taking advantage of the people who are nice to him and had some sort of trust in him, but now he's ultimately lost that trust. He's lied one too many times, and now no one's there willing to help, and now this is his cry for help. Now, Brent Smith usually writes songs that are quite personal, either to him or to people around him. He writes from personal experiences, so this could song could be about himself and his own personal substance abuse issues that he had around this time that he was just quitting and getting over when he found out he's gonna be a father for the first time. Remember, he chose to quit his addictions. The song could be about Brent Smith himself, or it could be about, for example, Jason Todd, who was let go from the band for one of those reasons was because of his substance abuse issues as well, and how his drug addiction was impacting the band. So take your pick. But ultimately, the song is about a drug addict, in my opinion, I should say, is about a drug addict who's kind of lied one too many times to try and scramble money off people that had some sort of trust and a fondness for them. Uh, but they burned too many bridges, they've lied too many times, and now no one's willing to help them anymore. They've cut all their bridges. Now let's get back into Cry for Help. We'll get to the little breakdown that happens after the second chorus. You'll find this with Shinedown songs. We found it in the previous episodes, you'll find it in this one as well. Songs usually have the same structure: it's intro, first chorus, first chorus, a little breakdown, and then a final chorus. That's the section we're gonna get into now, the breakdown and the final chorus. And it will wrap up Cry for Help, my first hidden gem. Let's have a listen. I want to call it that breakdown though, because you don't get guitar solos or any solos in Shinedown songs. It's not just not what they're about. You can go what listen to ACDC if you're looking for your guitar solos. There's plenty of bands that do them. Shinedown isn't one of those bands that's not the audience they're going for. They're just looking to write songs with meaningful lyrics that kick ass or are emotionally beautiful in the case of their ballads that hit home and uh short. I don't want to say short and sweet, but most of them are three to four minutes long. That's the audience they're going for, the people who appreciate that kind of music and just enjoy the sound and less about the uh music uh virtuoso of it, like you get with some other rock bands and metal bands. But this is the closest you're gonna get to a Shinedown guitar solo, so I appreciate it. And I do like it, but the other thing I want to point out, because no one ever appreciates the bass guitarist in these pieces, unless it's a band like Royal Blood or Primus. Listen out for well, I don't gotta play it again, so you can't listen out to you, but go back and listen if you want to hear it. But listen out for the bass. It's very punchy, it's very heavy in the mix. It's the opposite of what you get in a Metallica and Justice for Roll, which is very famous, famously has no bass in the mix almost. You can very hardly hear it, if at all. And you can go on YouTube and find people who mix it themselves with actual bass so you can hear it. It's the opposite of that. This bass is punching in this breakdown, and I love it. It's really carrying that kind of rhythm on the beat. It's Mim's on beat bass line. Now let's get back to the final chorus of Cry for Help, and we'll wrap it up. We're gonna play it now. Final chorus to the end of the song. Cry for help. But you get the big rock finish at the end with the Barry Kirch and the drums doing a bit more craziness than he normally would. Not usually done in Shinedown songs, but they felt this song needed it and they put it in there. You got that big trash can ending, I've heard people call it. Big rock ending, crescendo ending, whatever you want to call it. You get that at the end of Cry for Help. My first hidden gem of the album, The Sound of Madness. A great, great track. I think it's a hidden gem because two songs prior in the album is a title track, Sound of Madness. Uh, it's another heavy track on the album, one of the heavier tracks, like Cry for Help. And I think maybe Sound of Madness, maybe it is a slightly better song. It's got a cooler groove, a more unique groove to it that maybe people gravitate to more. Maybe when it comes to listening to this album or listening to songs off the album, they go to the title track rather than Cry for Help. It lives in the shadow of the title track, I believe. My theory, obviously, there are no facts in this one. Maybe some people just don't like the song, but I think it's a kick-ass song, and I hope you like it too. And to be honest with you, every song on this album is a kick-ass song. This album is a classic album. It's easily shine down its best, but also it's one of the best of the genre, of the hard rock genre. Really, really is a good album. If you haven't heard it before, just go and listen to it from start to finish. Great, great album. Now, we are gonna move on to my second hidden gem track from the album, The Sound of Madness. And the next track is another one I was surprised to find was lower down in the Spotify streams, because it's one that I've always gravitated to and enjoyed singing to myself personally. And I assumed there was more of you out there like me. Apparently not, but I'm gonna tell you why you should be like me, because this is my second hidden gem track from the sound of madness. It's track number eight on the album, and it's called What a Shame.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:22

The strongest whiskey Kentucky can make. That's a recipe to put a vagabond on his hands and knees. I watched it all up close. I knew him more than most. I saw a side of him and never showed.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:41

Full of sympathy for a world that wouldn't let him be. This is one of the shined down ballads on the album, but unlike maybe Second Chance, which is hugely successful for them, uh, this one wasn't released as a single, and this one's more in the rock realm. I think Second Chance has more pop rock about it. This one I think is just more rock ballad. The guitars are darker toned, uh, the lyrics are more in that rock realm. The vocal delivery I meant to say is more in that rock realm. And you'll hear that when we get to the chorus. Now, this song does build a bit. The first chorus isn't a big punch you expect it to be, but the other choruses are we will get there when we get there. This song, I want to say it now so when we're listening to clips, you can take that into account. The message being delivered by Brent Smith here is quite a simple one. It's just a reflection on empathy and the dangers of judging others without understanding their struggles first. Uh, but it's important to mention as well that this song uh is rarely played live for emotional reasons for Brent Smith, because this song was written for one of his favourite uncles who passed away, and it was Brent Smith's way of handling uh that favourite uncle's death. So it's maybe that's why it's lowered down on the Spotify streams, because they don't play it live as part of their live shows. It's probably a big part of that in this. Because I think it's a great, great track. But take that into mind while you're hearing some of these lyrics. For example, two packets of cigarettes a day, the strongest whiskey Kentucky can make. That's a rec a recipe to put a vagabond on his hands and knees. Clearly, all of this is imagery, not for a group of people or stereotype, it's for a specific individual in Brent Smith's life. He's telling the story of that person without actually naming that person. Not everyone has two packs of cigarettes today, not everyone drinks the strongest whiskey Kentucky can make. I won't name the whiskey brand, but other brands do exist. Brent Smith is obviously singing about someone he actually knows, in this case, his uncle, and saying why you shouldn't judge the life he's lived because he don't understand the struggles he's gone through. Let's get back into the second hidden gem from this album, What a Shame. That's a many words.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:58

Have you heard?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:40

Got the chorus there, and I I do like that vocal melody in the chorus, though. And let's be honest, it's a vocals carrying this. Everything else is just adding atmosphere to the piece of music and the story that the lyricist, in his case, Brent Smith, is looking to tell. Uh, but the main theme, there's no like crazy riff going on, crazy drums going on. It's all about the vocals, the melody, and the lyrical content of what the emotion they're trying to portray. And this vocal melody is not doing anything crazy, you know. What a shame, what a shame. The judge laugh that you can change, but it's catchy and it's got that kind of easiness to it. I talked in the previous episode about one of uh Brent Smith's early inspirations, Otis Redding, and he has that big head sitting on the dock of the bay. And Otis Redding, he's not blasting out sitting on the dock of the bay. He's not going, sitting on the dock of the bay! You know, he's not doing that, he's just going, sitting on the dock of the bay. And Brent Smith's doing the same here. He's not going, What a shame! We'll get there, but he's not doing it yet. At the moment, he's just going, What a shame, what a shame. The judge of laugh that you can change. And he's just trying to get that emotion across. He's not trying to show off, he's getting that Otis Redding inspiration out of him. He's going for the soul in this one. And remember, his first inspiration was soul singers. It wasn't rock or metal stars, they came later. Soul, RB Soul specifically, was his first musical love and his first musical inspiration. So I feel that coming out here. But do take note on how Brent Smith sings it at this point and in the second chorus as well, because he's gonna pick it up for the final chorus, and I want you to hear the difference. We're gonna get back into it now in verse two. Also, did you notice the little high-pitched guitar melody? It's not really a melody, but the notes they were playing post chorus. I quite like that as well. It's quite disjointed, um, but beautiful at the same time, kind of portraying to the whole meaning of the song, in my opinion. But let's get back to verse two.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:51

There's a hard light for every silver spoon, there's a touch of gray for every shade of blue. That I see life. If there was nothing wrong, then there'd be nothing alright. And all this working family said could barely stand. There's gotta be a bit of a place to land. Some kind of remedy for a world that wouldn't let him be.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:19

Before we get back to the pre-chorus and chorus, there, wanted to call out the chord progression. You know, you hear it in the first verse, it's no different in the second, but it's a beautiful little chord progression there. Again, it's all accompanying Brent Smith. They're all working together as a band here, but it's a very, very beautiful chord progression. And then notice on the second half of verse 2, you had this distorted guitar coming in playing these chords. I mentioned that this is more of a rock ballad and maybe the pop rock one of second chances. There's some of your evidence there if you didn't already agree with me. Okay, it's not much, but it's definitely more in the rock realm. I don't hear pop in this at all. This is very much a rock ballad, a shined down ballad for me. Let's get back to the song. It's building, building, building to that final chorus. Especially that last note he holds there with a line, and now you will live forever. He really, really does punch and hold that note for a long time. And you can only do that with good diaphragm training and good singing technique. It doesn't just happen. You gotta practice and build up that strength and that muscle in your diaphragm to do it. And Brent Smith does that in the past. He's done it, he's been there, he's got skills, and he's showing it off there. But now we're gonna get into the final chorus where he Brent Smith lifts it up a level. We go almost up a key here in the final chorus. Um let's get to it. This is one of those songs, what a shame, where the meaning is quite straightforward. And I think it's one of those songs you have a like or you don't. I really, really like this song. I can try and sell it to you as much as I can by talking about it. But really, it's just one of those songs when you hear it, it'll either click with you and you'll think, yep, that's my kind of jam, or it won't, and you'll just think, What am I talking about? So there's no point me dissecting every little thing that's going on because it's quite a simple song, really. It's just all about the performance and the emotion, and either that'll get you or it won't. So let's listen to this note again. We'll listen to that line again, and now you live forever. Listen out for how big a breath, how much power Brent Smith has to do to hit that final note that leads into the final chorus, and then we'll listen out for that. And just remember, it's not going what a shame, what a shame. Like it was in chorus one and two. Now it's going, what a shame, what a shame. Losing my voice a little bit because of this whole podcast episode, but listen out for it. Back to what a shame. It was What a Shame. And that song, the final chorus and the way it the little post-chorus at the end as well, the crescendo of the song, really brings that song home for me. I do like that song. I hope you did too at home. Now, the final hidden gem from this classic album, The Sound of Madness, wasn't on the initial release of The Sound of Madness. It only featured on the deluxe edition of The Sound of Madness. And then to be honest, I'm quite surprised this one didn't make the initial cut for the album. And so are a few Shinedown fans, Shinedown Die Hard fans. They do enjoy this song and they do love this song. It's probably the best of the bonus tracks on the deluxe edition of The Sound of Madness. Some of you may like the acoustic version of Second Chance because you're a big fan of the original. But in terms of the original, original tracks that are bonus on this album, this is by far the best one. There's no nothing close. Okay. I'm sorry, I forgot. There's our single called Diamond Eyes, Boom Le Boom Le Boom. Okay, that's in the running too. But this is right up there with Diamond Eyes, boom-lay, boom-le-boom. It just hasn't had all the publicity to go with it. That's why it's a hidden gem. And this album's just so good. There's just so many good tracks in this album. I'm trying to tell you why this is the best of the rest, but it should be up there with all of them. All of the tracks on this album are so good. I've waffled trying to build up this hidden gem track. I really have. But let me tell you, it's track 13 on the deluxe edition of The Sound of Madness. My third and final hidden gem on this album is called Son of Sam.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:23

Story's built.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:38

You know the world to stay away. So tell me who's to blame.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:44

This is the heaviest song on The Sound of Madness. And I can't believe this song didn't make the initial cut. This is only on the Deluxe Edition. There's a good chance the song never saw the light of day, and no one ever heared it other than Shinedown themselves when they recorded a demo or something for it. It's such a good song. And it really does kick in. This is as metal as Shinedown really get. But I love the palmed pecking in that verse. I also love the heaviness and that opening riff, the chug-in guitar riff. It very much sounds like something you'd hear in a stone sour song to me, which is very much, you know, it's okay, you get stone sour on as heavy as uh Corey Taylor's other band, Slipknot, but they're still very much in the core realm of metal. Uh the song puts shine down in that realm as well, even though they're mainly a hard rock band. Great, great track. We're gonna get back to it, but I want to talk about the lyrical meaning, what the song is about. What is what is Son of Sam? I've seen people online trying to theorize, and it's another anti-war song about the war in Iraq and Sam being like Uncle Sam, for example. Not the case, it's far more simple lyrical meaning in this one. Uh, there was a serial killer in the 70s in New York City called David Berkowitz, and his nickname was the son of Sam, and it's basically a song about David Berkowitz. Why was he nicknamed the son of Sam? Well, he used to leave uh letters uh at the crime scene for the police to kind of tease him a little bit, I guess. And he always signed him off as the son of Sam. So he went from being known as like the point forty-four killer named after the gun he used, supposedly, to being known as the son of Sam therein before he was eventually found and captured. Uh when I asked him why the son of Sam, he came up with some story about how it was a reference to a demon that he said lived in a black Labrador retriever that was owned by his neighbour Sam Carr. And he basically claimed that the demon inside the Labrador ordered him to kill, and that's why he killed people. Uh, he's later admitted that he basically made all that up, where he did it for fun or to throw police off or just to have more of uh notoriety about him to try and be as famous as like someone like Charles Manson, who knows? But he was known as the son of Sam, and this song is about the serial killer David Berkowitz, the son of Sam. Let's get back to it. That chorus to me is so catchy. The way Brent Smith just raises the tone of his voice and just comes out with that God damn, I wanna be the son of Sam! The only child of a holy man! You know, this song is rocking anyway, it's really got a groove to it, it's got a metal groove to it, it's kicking ass, and then he comes in and just raises the notch again with his vocal ability, just takes it to our next level. You'll find for example, listen to this in the verse, specifically the guitar big here is going. It's per me did, but listen to it in the verse. No way, dude. It's not as prominent as the next clip I'm gonna show you, but the guitar is just going dun dun dun dun dun dun dun and then it goes, it changes note then it goes dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Listen to this clip by a band called Megadeth and Dave Mustaine on a guitar. Listen to what he's doing, it sounds quite similar. Can you hear the similarities? Everything around it's a bit different in terms of the vocals and the drums and the tone of the guitar and the way it's uh made in the mix is a bit different, and it's more palmeed, I'd say, in Son of Sam. But did you hear the similar rhythm, similar tone? Now listen to this part of Sum of Sam, the beginning riff of Sum of Sam. Now, if I told you that riff was not the start of a Shinedown song, but the start of a stone sour song, or maybe a five-fingered death punch song, I don't think any of you would disagree with me. I think it would sound like a yeah, okay, I haven't heard that song before, but yeah, it makes sense. But that's a start of a Shinedown song called Son of Sam and Megadeth, Dave Mustaine, they're quintessential metal. And yes, they are far more metal than Shinedown. But the point I'm trying to make is that Shinedown get labelled as a hard rock band, and they absolutely are, and therefore every other song in their back catalogue is hard rock or pop or nothing at all. The people in the metal world they will not consider any other song. They can't consider an act that's generically a different genre, having a song or two part of their genre. Son of Sam is a metal song. Beat me with a stick, I'm not changing my mind. Son of Sam is a metal song. And the metal people, the metal gods out there need to acknowledge it because it is a banging of metal song, it's a banger of a track, and we're gonna get right back to it, Son of Sam.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:14

Are you concerned by me?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:58

Such an earworm to me. It makes me want to sing along, but even if I'm not in a position where I can sing out loud, it just hits my ears in a certain way. My only criticism is that it's too short. I wish it was double the length. It seems like it kicks in and it's almost going to that kind of post-chorus, goddamn, son of Sam! God damn, son of Sam, really, really quickly. I want to hear it do that first bit where Brent's belting out the you know, the goddamn, I wanna be the son of Sam! I wanna do that longer than it does just the four lines, make it eight lines, double it in length. But I'm being spoilt as it is by having such a great tune. I just want more of it. I mean gluttonous greedy for the quality. We're gonna get to the breakdown of the song now after the second chorus. This sounds like something to me. I don't quite I can't quite put my finger on what it is. Like I'm talking about another metal song, the way it breaks down, the way Brent the Mo vocal melody singing, especially the ceiling, falling peace, bad peace. I like it, I really like it, that's why it's my hidden gem. It does sound like something, though, I just can't quite put my finger on which band or song that is. Could even be another Shinedown song, or it could be just making it all up and it's just uh deja vu. Who knows? But it does remind me of something, and if you can think of what that is, please do let me know because it's bugging me. Friend to friend, just let me know. So let's get to that breakdown, uh, and then we'll play the final chorus for you. I'll come back first to just talk about the breakdown one more time. The breakdown and the last hidden gem track, Son of Sam. The breakdown starts with some simple but very effective work by Barry Kirch on the drums that leave us in, and when it kicks in, it all comes in together with the bass and the guitar as well. And the bass, there's doing some deep overtones here, it's deep in the mix. It's not something that hits you in the face and is really obvious. It's something that I sort of get this feeling from it, and then I get my ear to try and tune into the sound, and then I can hear it. But there's some deep overtones there. And when the song's about a serial killer, it makes perfect sense why the song should be dark too, right? Um, but yeah, I love that vocal melody from Brent Smith. Uh, this whole song is very, very catchy. The song isn't so much about the Brent Smith show like it is in some other songs on this album. That doesn't mean he's not excellent in his delivery here, nonetheless. Uh, we get into a lovely little segue into the final chorus where it just comes out of nowhere almost. There's no big grand build-up like there is in what a shame. It just kind of has a little bit of effects going on, a bit of silence, and then BAM! God damn! It comes straight in with the son of Sam Line in the chorus. Let's get in and listen to that chorus one more time, because the chorus is the best part of the song. You've got riffage, you've got heaviness, you got pal-muted rhythm guitars going on the Can I Kill the King by uh Megadeth? It's kicking ass all the way through. It's metal, but then you've got this talent of a Brent Smith over the top. A kind of maybe that's why people see it as more of a rock song because of Brent Smith and his delivery and his talent. Because let's be honest, in the metal world you got amazing singers, but not every metal band has an amazing singer. There's a lot that don't. Uh, maybe having one like Brent Smith in the lineup makes it seem more of a rock song than a metal song, but it's absolutely a metal song, and I'm gonna stop talking about that now. Let's listen to the final chorus on Sum of Sam and listen to the end of the song. Enjoy this chorus because I'm gonna play it one last time. From the Sound of Madness album, our third and final hidden gem track, Son of Sam, about that serial killer David Berkowitz from New York City in the 1970s. Killed six people, I believe. What a great, great track. Such a great I'm headbanging just playing these clips to you. I'm headbanging when I'm playing it. Not doing the podcast, listening to that song for you. I don't know how anyone can listen to that song and not headbang or foot tap along unless you're tied to a chair or something and you in a position where it's physically impossible. Great, great track. Anybody knows at the end there, um, there's a little uh very quiet in the mix, but there's a guitar solo going on there. If they ever played it live during the Sound of Madness tour, which they likely didn't because it wasn't part of the album's initial release, then it would have been Nick Perry playing that line. Since then it would have been Zach Myers, but likely on the studio recording, it would have been probably Dave Barrett, just a studio musician. There is a guitar solo going on in a Shinedown song. I talked about it earlier, how it's not really that kind of vibe, and there's one or two examples, maybe in Cry for Help, very small examples. You got more of an example here, but it's very, very quiet in the mix. And if you're listening with only one headphone in, there's a good chance. If you picked the wrong headphone, you couldn't hear it anyway, which I'm pretty sure it's only coming out of the left side. It's got some panning going on there. But that was Son of Sam. Great, great track, and I can't believe I didn't make the initial cut of the album. It's such a good song, it's better than some of the songs that did make the album. The argument I've heard of why it didn't is because it didn't want too many heavy songs, and this is a very heavy song. Maybe they felt it was too heavy for the mix they were going for, but I absolutely think it could have made the album this. A couple of other heavy songs on this album, like Sin with a Grin, Cyanide, Sweet Tooth, Suicide. They're not quite as heavy as Son of Sam, but I think Son of Sam is a better song than both of those, despite the fact that they're both great songs as well. As I said, there's not a bad song on this album. I can't really fault it, and it flows very well as well. But Son of Sam deserves a place. And I'm glad with the deluxe version of the album, it got its chance. Now that brings us to the end on our coverage of The Sound of Madness. This, in my opinion, is Shinedown's finest album. It is Leap Unbounds above Leave a Whisper and Us and Them. And I like both of those albums. They are both good albums, but this is an amazing album. This is almost a perfect score album. This is the album you think of when you think of Shinedown. This is their Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. This is their black album. This is their Rust in peace, their rain in blood, their appetite for destruction. I'm trying to think of all the clouds. They're blizzard of ours. This is the Is their classic, classic album? It's where they broke through to the next level. They kind of had some breakthrough earlier on with singles. This is when they really broke through, especially with that single second chance. And also on the rock and more metal side of it, loads of those fans came swarming in at this point in the band's catalogue because the album was so good and it stands the test of time. I talked about it in Leave a Whisper, especially, but also in us and them, how some of the songs still sound great to me. But if you were someone younger coming to this podcast hearing those songs for the first time, they may sound dated and of their time. I don't think that's the case in this album. Maybe I'm being biased talking about it then because it's my era, but I really do feel like all of the sound on these songs stand the test of time and just sound like a really good, unique Shinedown album rather than a 2000s new metal album or something like that. Really, really great album. And I think critically it got its dues, commercially it got its dues, it's done well, the single's done well, and I think everyone loves it. The albums that follow this one, uh, they aren't quite the same quality for me. There's still some great albums there, don't get me wrong. There's only one album I'd say is not quite at the quality level you expect from Shinedone, although there are still a couple of their biggest tracks on that album. It's just the rest of the album kind of lets it down, and we'll get there when we get there. But the rest of the albums that follow after this, I don't feel they are as heavy. I think this is as heavy as Shinedown ever gets. I feel like maybe with the commercial success of singles like Second Chance, they realize that maybe the more mainstream is the way the way to go. And they don't sell out. I sound a bit like I say they're selling out when I say that, because I don't think they have, I think they've evolved. And they do it slowly, not dramatically. So this is their pinnacle for me. This is when they're most metal, most rock, most heavy. There's still gonna be that in the next album, but you start to hear the change to go more into what I'd call maybe uh pure hard rock, alt rock, some cases pop rock, act, get inspirations from the likes of I've heard some inspirations I can hear from Fallout Boy, from Imagine Dragons is usually the one that's used. Imagine Dragons mixed with some of the more heavier hard rock is usually a comparison used against Shinedown. We're gonna get them when we get there. The next album is Amaryllis. It comes out in 27th of March 2012. So there's quite a gap between this album coming out and the next one, and that's probably another good reason why the sound starts to evolve more that way uh than sticking with going more heavier rock and metal uh that they did on this one in 2008 with the sound of madness. So, the next album is Amaryllis. We're gonna get there in episode four on our Shinedown series. So, this is the end of episode three. Thank you so much for joining us. It has been an absolute pleasure doing this podcast for you. I hope you enjoyed it. Uh, I am your host, Daniel Stuckey. Please do join us for the next one on Amaryllis, but also join us on the other albums in the Shinedown series that's gonna come. We got Threat of Survival, Attention, Attention, Planet Zero, and yes, I'm gonna cover the brand new album that only came out as of recording this podcast a few days ago, the album titled Eight. We will cover that in this series as well. We're gonna go all the way to the present time as of recording in 2026. Do not worry, we are gonna cover every hidden gem track from those albums and the story of the band all the way to the present time. So please do join us for those. If you haven't heard episode one and two, I talked about them a couple of times on this podcast episode, but please do go back and listen to them as well. And if you like the format of what we're doing here, we've got a series already completed on Nightwish, we've got a series completed on Iron Maiden, the first series of the podcast, and we got series on the hidden gem bands, the Diablo Swing Orchestra and the classic rock inspired The Answer. So please do join us for those if you haven't heard them before. Please, it would help me out so so much. Thank you so much for listening. This is Rock and Metal's Hidden Gems Podcast, and I am Daniel Stucky. Thank you so much. Bye bye.