EP 7: Offer & Negotiation — Salary, RVUs, PTO, Non-Competes

In Episode 7 of NP Launchpad, Christopher, Vanessa, and Jason break down how nurse practitioners can confidently evaluate offers and negotiate contracts without apology—sharing friendly, experience-based tips (not legal advice) that have worked in their own careers. They unpack total compensation beyond base salary, from productivity bonuses and CME funds to call expectations, tail coverage, noncompetes, and the hidden costs that can make or break a role. You’ll hear practical scripts to help you ask for what you deserve, negotiate in bundles, and get every promise in writing—plus the red flags that should make you pause or walk away. 

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Transcript

Voiceover 0:01

Welcome to NP Launchpad, presented by Fitzgerald Health Education Associates, the podcast created for newly graduated nurse practitioners navigating the transition from school to clinical practice. Hosts Jason Gleason, Christopher Gleason, and Vanessa Pomarico-Denino deliver real talk, real experiences, and practical guidance to help you succeed from day one. So if you're ready, let's jump right in.

Jason Gleason 0:29

Welcome back, friends. This is Dr. J coming to you from Big Sky Country in Montana, and my friends Vanessa and Christopher are joining me for this episode. You're going to love this episode. We are so glad you're tuning in because you're going to absolutely love this episode. We're going to talk about the deep subject of contract negotiation. And you are going to love this because we have Dr. Vanessa Pomarico-Denino in the house, rocket Vanessa, right? She is an expert on this topic, and you're going to love everything that she has to say. And Christopher and I will chime in as well, but you're going to love this topic, and it's so important because this topic, as you know, sets the foundation for your career in an organization, right? And if you mess this up, it can impact your entire career within an organization. You won't get the pay that you want, the benefits that you want. So again, stay strong. We're going to give you some strategies to work through contract negotiations and to do that effectively, to come out on the other side with what you want because you deserve it. You've worked so hard becoming an NP, all the academic preparation, the career that you've already had before this moment where you're going to go into a contract negotiation. So let's take the fear out of it and give you that I've got this moment and let's kick things off. Vanessa and Christopher, how are you doing?

Vanessa Pomarico 1:45

Good. How are you?

Christopher Gleason 1:46

Doing well.

Jason Gleason 1:47

Doing great. I'm so excited to be back with our audience across the country. I think we've had a good run with all the episodes that we've uh recorded before, and I hope our audience has enjoyed it. Same here. You know, Vanessa, here's a question for you. What is your favorite part about being a nurse practitioner?

Vanessa Pomarico 2:04

Oh, I I can't chip pick just one. Um, but I have to say, I mean, I love taking care of families. That's really the biggest thing. But really empowering other nurse practitioners, which is why I love this podcast because it's we're doing exactly what I love to do. I love to teach, um, but I love to empower nurse practitioners and give them the tools that they need to be really successful. And this is one of those topics that I feel like a lot of programs don't spend enough time educating the students on what they need to know when they get out of school. I don't know if you found that, but the vast majority of the universities that I speak and educate their students, they've never learned this before.

Jason Gleason 2:46

All right. I I know with myself, even, you know, you're excited to get out of school. And for myself, I like accepted my first job offer because I was so excited. And there were big things that I could have asked for, but I didn't. I didn't because I didn't have this knowledge. So I think it's really going to be helpful to our audience. Christopher, what do you think?

Christopher Gleason 3:02

Oh, I think I agree with Vanessa. I mean, this is such an important topic. And when I remember when I graduated, again, it was not a course that was offered. And it would have been so so crucial, you know, going from that transitioning from that student NP to you know to working as an NP and actually, you know, negotiating your contracts, getting what you deserve as an NP. You know, we kind of touched upon this in previous episodes. NPs in general, you know, when we're going out and we're negotiating those contracts, if we're constantly getting low balled on those contracts and we're constantly accepting those lowball offers, then we're kind of degrading ourselves as as practitioners.

Jason Gleason 3:39

So, Vanessa, I mentioned at the top of the episode that you're an expert on this topic of contract negotiations. Tell us a little bit about your background on why that is.

Vanessa Pomarico 3:48

So I actually became an expert by chance. When I was doing my pediatric rotation, my pediatric preceptor said to me, What are you going to do about a contract? And I had absolutely no idea what she was talking about. I was a staff nurse. We didn't do anything with contracts. So she handed me her 23-page contract and redacted a few things. 23 pages at that time. And when we're talking in the, you know, the mid-90s. Yeah. And she said, This is going to be your education. There was nothing on it. And I remember saying to my professor, are we going to talk about any of this? And she was a fairly new nurse practitioner. She had passed her boards literally like a year before we had started our program. So she didn't know much about it either. And so I came, became an expert just based out of necessity, learning what I could, and then sharing it with the different schools in my area that I was teaching for and other schools where I did guest lectures. And then that led into, you know, doing a lot of national speaking at um state conferences and at AANP. And that's what really put me on the map, so to speak, uh, in terms of my professional speaking career was talking about salaries and negotiation. And I do have to say, and I have to put a little plug in, I have absolutely no financial um affiliation, but this book should be on every practitioner's bookshelf. Now, the last printing was in 2021.

Jason Gleason 5:16

Yeah.

Vanessa Pomarico 5:17

Uh Carolyn Buppert is not only an attorney, but she is a nurse practitioner. It is literally the Bible of what every nurse practitioner needs to know about negotiation. Um, she is since retired. And so I'm not sure who's gonna write the next book, but stay tuned.

Jason Gleason 5:35

Wow.

Christopher Gleason 5:35

Oh, look, Vanessa, another job for you. There you go.

Vanessa Pomarico 5:37

Yes, yeah.

Jason Gleason 5:39

Vanessa, could you share that book with us one more time for our listeners?

Vanessa Pomarico 5:43

Sure. So again, this is from 2021. So it is five years old, but this was the last printing, and it's the seventh edition of the Nurse Practitioners Business Practice and Legal Guide by Carolyn Buppert. Uh, it's Jones and Bartlett Learning. You can go right to their website and get it.

Jason Gleason 5:59

Outstanding. Yeah.

Vanessa Pomarico 6:00

It actually has a state-by-state breakdown of different things within the state. Obviously, that's changed in the last five years, but the nuts and bolts of contract negotiation are still very, very valid.

Christopher Gleason 6:12

See, that's that's a class that really should be offered at the like towards the end of NP programs. That should really be offered. And and a book like that would be just, I mean, amazing. I know, you know, personally, if I had something like that at the end of my, at the end of my NP uh schooling, maybe I wouldn't have made the mistakes that I made with contracts afterwards.

Jason Gleason 6:31

Yeah.

Vanessa Pomarico 6:31

But you know what, we all made our mistakes, and that's that's what how we learn and that's how we grow. But I actually do a lot of uh end-of-the-year speaking now. I've reached out to numerous schools, and I actually have uh something on the Fitzgerald, in the Fitzgerald Library, um, the Fitzgerald Health Education Associates, there is a four-hour um series on contract negotiation, CV development, that kind of thing. So it's it may not be in our curriculum because if it's not on the on the blueprint for our boards, it's gonna be very difficult to get any of the schools to get on board with it. Um but we're getting, you know, we're slowly but surely getting there. Long time and coming on.

Jason Gleason 7:11

That makes sense. And for our listeners out there, I think it'd be a great idea if we shared that uh link so they can go to right to Fitzgerald and find that course. You said it's a four-hour course?

Vanessa Pomarico 7:21

So it's broken up into uh one-hour segments. There's four uh pieces to it, and uh it's really very, very helpful for people just getting out of school, but also for people who are rejoining the workforce. Maybe they left for whatever reason, care for a family member, raise their children, they decided to take a break and travel through Europe, whatever it is. But if they're getting back into the profession, it's also a good way of uh helping them navigate all of these areas that we don't learn anything about when we're in school.

Jason Gleason 7:51

Nice, nice. Yeah, I I know in my NP program years ago, um, we had to develop a business plan, like if we're gonna launch into our own business, which is quite detailed and I appreciated the experience. But again, no content on how do you get out there and how do you negotiate a contract. You know, it's so important. But I get it that the NP programs out there are so maxed out with the curriculum that they're required to have, you know, so we can pass our boards that it kind of goes on the back burner, but it's such an important topic. So I'm I'm so glad that you are gonna be our expert today and teach us all about this during our discussion. And speaking of our discussion, let's move on to our hot topic discussion. Today we're talking about uh contracting or contract negotiations for that dream job of yours out there and to do that appropriately so you make the best of it. And again, don't settle for less. So here's here's our first question for you. Besides salary, what other benefits should NPs consider when looking at joining a new practice? Christopher, how about you? What do you think on that topic?

Christopher Gleason 8:48

There's a host of things you really need to you really need to look at. You need to look at your um how much time off they're offering you. You know, do they have a program in place that that offers you not only pay for going to CMEs, but you know, will they will they pay for the CME in and of itself? Um other things is, you know, besides the PTO, look at look at sick time. You know, do are they grouped together? Is your PTO, you know, your sick time and your vacation time, or is it, or is your sick time, you know, something separate? The a lot um some companies allow you to use sick time for um appointments, things like that. You know, these are these are the things that you really really need to have a good hold, a good um hold on before you accept the contract. Sure. Vanessa, what are your thoughts?

Vanessa Pomarico 9:31

Well, I echo Chris's sentiments, but the other thing that you need to think about too is uh productivity pay, whether or not you're going to get salary the first year. I don't recommend productivity pay right out of the gate because you need to build your practice. But after that, will you get productivity bonuses? Because that can add on tens of thousands of dollars to your base salary. Um, but also your quality of life. You need to ask, besides your salary and your benefit package, how much time do they expect you to see patients versus how much time are you going to spend documenting? Are they going to give you that four-hour admin time to break up during the week so that you're not seeing patients for 40 hours and then spending 15 hours at home documenting because now your salary has gone way down if that's what they expect you to do?

Jason Gleason 10:21

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I I think that um, you know, when you go into a contract negotiation, they might offer you a salary that sounds really great. But that if they have a crappy benefits package, that's going to cost you in the long run. Because if you get paid a great amount of money, but your insurance costs for your health insurance for you and your family are through the roof, in the end, you're making less money than you would have if you negotiated something better for yourself. So so many things to consider here. Um yeah, very important stuff. So any other comments, Christopher, on the topic? This question here?

Christopher Gleason 10:53

Not really, just you know, stressing the importance of understanding your contract, understanding what the what the facility that you're you know looking to work for is act is truly offering you and making sure there's no you know hidden hidden anything within the contract itself. And like Vanessa was saying, you know, the RVU system at base value, the RVU system sounds great. You know, the more patients you see, the the more you're getting paid, things like that. But when you're a new grad going into that RVU system, that can be extremely overwhelming. Sure.

Jason Gleason 11:24

Yeah. You know, I I know a colleague that actually works in a pulmonary practice. And when he was negotiating his contract as an NP, they actually offered him RVU bonuses, and but they hired him. All he does for this pulmonary practice is oxygen recertifications. How boring is that? He loves it. But for me, I would die. I'd be burned out in one day, right? But that's all he does. But here's the deal for him it works great for him, and it's what he wants because he hauls in over $200,000 a year in bonuses because it's attached to you know his contract and he negotiated that well from the beginning. And you can bet if I was going to do oxygen recertifications all day long, I would want to be paid very well for it. So yeah, depending on your niche out there and your circumstances, it can work very well for you. Yeah, exciting stuff. Exciting stuff.

Vanessa Pomarico 12:12

Well, but you also need to consider, too, on that vein, if they're offering an extreme amount of money above and beyond what is normal for that particular area where you practice, if it's too good to be true, it probably is. So, for example, there's a practice in my particular area that starts nurse practitioners at probably, you know, $30,000 to $40,000 a year more than what I'm making. But and a lot of the new grads, and I always caution them, you know, when they say about this one particular, I'm gonna go and I always say to them, ask the questions, because here's the deal 15-minute appointments, whether it's a new patient, a new patient physical, uh a problem visit, a highly complex, you know, patient, everything is 15 minutes. You don't have a medical assistant, you don't have an office to document in. And if people show up two hours late, guess what? You still have to see that patient and you're not given any admin time. So, yeah, sure, you want to pay somebody, you know, a base salary of $200,000. It's too good to be true because your working conditions are not going to be very good. And subsequently, there's a huge revolving door. So you always have to look at that as well. Like you said, the you know, it works for your friend, but you or I would be putting needles in our eyes at the end of the day.

Jason Gleason 13:32

Quality of work-life balance, right?

Christopher Gleason 13:34

So um Vanessa, I just want to touch basically on something real quick. So with the RVU system, so I used to work when I first started as a nurse practitioner, I worked in an RVU-based system. And it was interesting because the I had a base salary and you get the RVU. So if you overproduce, you get that, you get that bonus. But something to keep in mind, if you underproduce, you could end up owing the company. So and then that's kind of the catch 22 with RVUs. Yeah. What do you think, about that? Right.

Vanessa Pomarico 13:59

You have to, every nurse practitioner has to think about seeing enough patients and billing out. And if you if you don't learn billing and coding, take a class or 10 on the loan. Right. I've taken, I've probably taken a dozen billing and coding classes because every time I take one, I learn something new. And it's always good to make sure that you're billing and coding. You know, let's face it, we get a little complacent when we've been practicing for a while. But you want to make sure that you're not ending up, like you said, that you're that you're not justifying your existence in the practice because not only do you not want to write a check at the end of the quarter to them because you didn't meet your your overhead, but also two, you don't want to give them any excuse to say, sorry, this isn't working out. Today's your last day.

Jason Gleason 14:45

Right, right, right. You know, in in one uh opportunity that I had that I interviewed with and they came back came back with an offer, I was kind of appalled and I was puzzled at first. But it was uh, you know, here's your base salary, and then here's your RVUs. And it was in a walk-in clinic, so I couldn't really control the amount of patients that I would see each day. They just came to us, right? It's not like I had to build a practice. So I didn't have that influence into that uh that decision making. But Christopher, your spot on and it threw me off. And for our listeners out there, you will hear stuff like this that makes absolutely no sense to you. But gosh, we're gonna look at your RVUs every quarter. And if you don't meet the quota, you're gonna actually write us a check to reimburse us. Total garbage, I believe, in my opinion. Do not settle for any of that. If there's any language like that in your contract, I would turn away. I turn away from that quick. That is that is a big alert to your gut that says walk away from that contract because you do not want to sign something where you're signing over, you know, five grand, six grand a quarter, especially when you don't control the number of patients that you see a day in a walk-in situation or if you're working in an emergency department. So big red flag there, I would say, when you're looking at that. Have you heard of that system out there, Vanessa? I know Christopher mentioned he did.

Vanessa Pomarico 15:55

Yeah, I I have, and and I get phone calls and I always go back to the contract. What's the language in your contract? And so I hear two things. It's in the contract. Well, you should have had a contract attorney read it before you signed. So basically, you are held to the terms of that contract until that contract term ends. Or what happens is that the patient, the person doesn't have a contract. So if you don't get it in writing, you can't they're really you really don't have a leg to stand on. You can't say, Well, you didn't tell me this at the hiring. The employer will say, Well, you didn't ask. So you have to ask those questions.

Christopher Gleason 16:31

Yeah.

Vanessa Pomarico 16:31

You know, what is your expectation, you know, as a new grad of how many patients I'm going to see? How much time am I going to have to see them? And, you know, will you let me kind of work at my own pace? So maybe the first three months, I'm only seeing eight to 10 patients a day. And then we'll regroup. And if I'm doing okay in three months, we'll go up to 12 patients a day. Or are you walking in the first day and you've got 25 people on your schedule? It's it's not feasible for somebody right out of school.

Jason Gleason 16:59

No. No, not at all.

Vanessa Pomarico 17:00

So you have to ask those questions because once you sign on the dotted line, it's yours.

Christopher Gleason 17:06

And I'm I'm glad you you brought that kind of ramp up schedule, Vanessa. I feel that's something that's so important for new grads. When you're getting into when you're getting into a practice, starting out, you know, starting out fresh, you want to have, you want to start with a practice that's going to work with you. You know, you want to work in a practice that's going to be like, okay, you're going to see this many patients for so many weeks and then kind of build from there, versus going into a practice that's saying, okay, you're now seeing, you know, 30 patients in a day and you get 15-minute time slots. It's not feasible for new grads because as a new grad, you're still trying to learn. I mean, you you have so much to learn, in fact, that to see the feasibility of seeing 25, 30 patients in a day is just not there. Right.

Vanessa Pomarico 17:44

It's not, and that's why we see a lot of turnover in staff because new grads don't have this education to empower them when they interview. And it's really disheartening to me when I read some of these chats online when when I hear, you know, I'm going to go back to the bedside. I don't like being a nurse practitioner because this is how I'm working. And my first question is did you discuss this before you signed your contract? Because again, and but they don't have the the education behind them to know what to ask. So that's why I think this whole podcast series that we're doing is really meant to empower the new grad or somebody going back into practice after taking some time off. But if you don't have it in writing and it's not something that you discussed, anything goes and there's no protection for you.

Jason Gleason 18:30

Well, that's such a great point because I think, you know, our listeners might run into this situation where they're offered a job, there's no contract, or they they tell you, well, we'll get a contract together for you, but you know, can you start now? That kind of situation. And they may totally trust that person, that leader in that organization, trust them that they're going to get a contract. But here's the deal: you can't even trust that because guess what? Leadership changes. And if it's not in writing, short term or long term, if it's not in writing from day one, there's no guarantee for you. And you're putting a lot out there, right? Your entire livelihood, your income, your family, you know, where you live, all those kind of things. So it's such an important thing to consider. So real quick.

Christopher Gleason 19:11

The um, I also think that this information is important for you know, nurse practitioners that are changing specialties as well. Because when you change specialties, the billy becomes different. So the, you know, the the contract becomes different in and of that in and of itself. So I think it's important to know this information prior to making that switch so that you can, you know, get the best contract.

Jason Gleason 19:30

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, lots of good discussion on our first hot topic. And here are some key tips for our friends out there listening and tuning in. And this will also be in your show notes, but here's kind of a summary of some key points under that question of what other things you should look at in a contract besides your salary. Look at the total compensation. Salary is only one spoke on the wheel, as we've discussed. There's many more things you have to consider when looking at your contract. And they may throw a big number at you, which is amazing. And you're right. You're like, sign on the line, give me a pin right now, but don't slow down, take a deep breath and look at the big picture on things and look at the fine print and make sure that there is print in front of you and not just taking someone's word by it. Because as Vanessa, Christopher, and I have mentioned, if it's not written down, it's not solid for you. There's no guarantee. Regarding base pay, understand the guarantee versus productivity and when the guarantee ends. That's also important to know. As far as bonuses go, they can talk about bonuses all day long. But again, if it's not written down in your contract and in very specific, easy to understand language, then it's likely not going to happen, right? Would you would you two agree that with bonuses, I've run into the situation where I go into an interview or an offer, and the the bonus structure is so complex, it's like you could have a diagram on a wall, and there would be 50 different steps on how to get a bonus. And if they can't explain that bonus to you well and easy to understand language, it's likely you're not gonna get the bonus. Because they made it complex on purpose. Not, you know, there's not evil people out there, but it's a business strategy. If they make it so complex you don't understand it, then you're you're really not gonna get a bonus, or you won't get the bonus that you had in your mind. You might have this one number in your head and end up and it ends up being like maybe $200 instead of $2000, right? So have you run into that, Vanessa?

Vanessa Pomarico 21:18

I I actually have. And again, it's very important. Like you said, it can be a very complex thing, but that's when the person or our listeners really needs to reach out to somebody more experienced than them or talk to a contract attorney who attorney who is well versed in nurse practitioner law and nurse practitioner practice. They're not that hard to find. And just run it by them because, like you said, you can look at that. And to me, I I probably read the chemistry table easier than I can read some of these uh, you know, these bonus structures. But also, too, I've seen them on the cheap. I've seen them as little as 5% and as high as 35%. But sometimes it's it's a high. Number, but it's almost impossible to achieve. But also, too, we want to make sure that the listeners understand that you don't want to work just strictly to get that productivity bonus because then your quality of care really goes down. And you don't want patients to say, well, they got me in and out of there in 10 minutes and I couldn't even talk to them about what I was there for. So make sure that you're not having that happen, that you're working just to get that bonus. But if you work in a specialty practice, like Chris had said, especially one that is more procedure-driven, like orthopedics or dermatology, when you do something that's more procedure driven, your RVUs go up. So you need to make sure that those bonuses are going to be equivalent to what all the work you're bringing into it, and that the owners of the practice are not, you know, running two sets of books, if you will, and not giving you everything that you have earned. I've had that happen to me before.

Jason Gleason 22:52

Right. Absolutely.

Christopher Gleason 22:53

So just real quick, I want to touch base on um, we're talking earlier about you know, looking at compensation packages and and in the contract in general. One of the other things I want to bring up is uh loan repayment. Student loan repayment is huge. Um sometimes if you're working for like FQHCs, which is federally qualified health centers, or you know, working in those rural medicine things like that, there are opportunities for you to get your student loans repaid, which, you know, as we all know can be huge. Yeah. Um so that's definitely something you take into consideration when you're you know reviewing your contract.

Jason Gleason 23:24

Yeah. And then penalties if you do not, you know, satisfactorily advance your school or education if they're if they're paying you to go to school rather than paying off loans. Sometimes they can hit you with like 20, 30% interest rates for a payback to the organization if you don't graduate from your program and and successfully uh get that done. So, yeah, lots of lots of things to consider.

Vanessa Pomarico 23:45

Or that you don't stay the three years. You know, most of those repayment programs are three years, and you better make sure that that's a place that you can stay for three years. Because, like you said, you leave after a year, you're gonna have to pay the money back. So, you know, the loan repayment is huge. It looks really enticing to a lot of people, but it's not as easy as you think.

Christopher Gleason 24:05

No, it's not. There is definitely a lot of uh lots of costs.

Jason Gleason 24:10

So other things to consider under this uh hot topic, benefits. And here's a list for you just to give you some ideas in your brain, the things to consider. And this again is in our show notes, so don't write this down. But health insurance, retirement match, disability, life insurance, continuing medical education, uh paid time off, paid holidays, all of that is so important. And then another thing to consider is fees. Who pays for your license? Who pays for your DEA? As we talked about in a previous episode, the DEA comes in at over $800 every three years. Your employer should pay for that. My my rule to myself is I'll share this with our uh listeners out there, that if it's required for your job, your employer should be paying for it. Really, they should.

Vanessa Pomarico 24:50

You know, and you need to negotiate that into your contract that they're gonna pay for your licenses. Don't assume that they will.

Jason Gleason 24:56

From day one, day one, and not by word, but in writing. You have to have that in writing. Another important thing to consider is time, as we've discussed, schedule flexibility, call, uh, call, pay, admin time, patient volume expectations, all of that is so important. Moving on to our next hot topic regarding this subject of contract negotiations. What would you consider important elements that should be in a contract? Vanessa, tell us.

Vanessa Pomarico 25:22

So the biggest thing I'm going to tell you are those non-compete clauses. That's one of the biggest things that people need to know the terms of their contract and their non-compete or restrictive clauses. So those are the clauses that people put in there so that you don't work for a year or six months or and and then you decide to leave and move to the practice across the street and take all your patients with you. Non-compete clauses can be negotiated out most of the time. Sometimes you cannot negotiate out, but most of the time they can be negotiated out. But you really have to make sure that you know what your non-compete clause is for how long and for how far. So in my teeny tiny little state of Connecticut, if my non-compete clause is for 24 months, which is the usual amount, and 30 miles, I might as well have to go practice in, you know, Rhode Island or one of the um the surrounding states with me because you know, 30 miles from the closest, um, their closest office. So I work for a huge healthcare system that has offices, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New York. I wouldn't be able to practice if I still had my non-compete clause.

Jason Gleason 26:36

Well, and how devastating. That would exile you to a place you don't want to be. Your family would have to pack up and move. It's not just about us, but it's about our family members, and the logistics would be a nightmare, and they will hold you to it and they will take you to court and sue you, and you'll be stuck in a lot of legal limbo and lots of big issues with non-compete clauses. And check with your state, though, because in Montana, they just recently passed a law about non-compete clauses and prohibiting them, which is kind of nice. So some states out there have laws in place to protect us. But here's the deal we had to fight in our state of Montana, we had to fight to have NPs added to that list of professions. So make sure you're you're listed as an NP in any kind of legislation out there. And if it's not, you know, legit go to the legislature, testify before them, write letters, you know, be proactive in getting that done in your state. So it's such an important issue. Chris, do you have any ideas on the topic?

Christopher Gleason 27:26

Um, kind of just what we talked, we've already touched on in what via uh but Vanessa talked about earlier. Um you know, make sure to have in writing that DEA that they're gonna reimburse you or pay for not reimbursing, what that they're gonna pay for your DEA. And, you know, because you could, if that's not in writing, you could start with this practice and three years down the road you're you're suddenly stuck with this $800 bill that you may or may not be able to afford. So that is so important. And, you know, having in your contract the just making sure that they kind of lay everything out for you, lay that PTO out for you, if there is an RVU, lay lay what that system looks like out for you, lay the um the uh bonus structure out for you, things like that. And again, touching on what Vanessa said earlier, you know, make sure to have a contract lawyer review these things before you sign it, because there could be language in there that you don't understand and you're signing something that, you know, or getting yourself into something that later on you'll you know regret. Yeah, absolutely.

Vanessa Pomarico 28:24

So there's one other piece to that that I want to, I'm sorry, Jason, but there's one other piece I want to just kind of dovetail on what you were just talking about, Chris, is um also making sure that you have um a clause in there to protect you, a salary protection clause if that practice goes under.

Christopher Gleason 28:41

Absolutely.

Vanessa Pomarico 28:42

I've talked to nurse practitioners where they went to work on a Thursday and they were told at the end of the day, today is your last day, take everything out, we're closing the doors. And they didn't have that salary protection. And there's a particular insurance policy that employers can take that will help with that salary protection. But that's something very few people negotiate into their contract. And so I know this nurse practitioner who was not only the breadwinner for her family because her husband was in school full-time, they had two young children, but she was also the benefit holder.

Christopher Gleason 29:13

Wow.

Vanessa Pomarico 29:13

And, you know, and she was also a diabetic, a type one diabetic. And being the benefit holder, and now all of a sudden they were closing down the next day, you know, she was in a panic. Like, what's gonna happen to my insurance? What's gonna happen to my pay? And so those are the those I think are the really important things you have to make sure you include into your contract negotiations.

Jason Gleason 29:34

And stuff you woudn't think about. I know I I haven't thought about that when I've negotiated contracts for myself. It's such an important topic and and and thing to make sure that's in there. So item to it's such an important item to have in there. So moving on to our tips for our listeners under this question of what would you consider important elements that should be in a contract? Here's some notes for you. And this is in our show notes again, so you don't have to write this down. But here's some tips for our listeners out there contract clauses that matter, termination, notice, non-compete tale. We've talked about some of that. I think it is so important. You know, we get so excited about entering a practice and starting there in day one, and there's all the excitement about our first paycheck and our contract. I think it's just as important to know how you leave a practice and what's in the contract regarding that and how you leave a practice as to how you start in the practice from day one. Would you agree, Vanessa?

Vanessa Pomarico 30:24

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you have to have, you need to think about all of the scenarios. And I know that that people tend to be a little short-sighted because, again, they're excited about their job, but you need to think about the what-ifs.

Jason Gleason 30:38

Yeah. Yeah. And Christopher, what are your thoughts on like notice? Like, if I'm gonna leave a job for some reason, life changes or I don't like the job, I want to get out of there. What are your thoughts on like notice in the contract? Because they'll usually tell you, you know, you have to give us so many days notice. What are your thoughts on that?

Christopher Gleason 30:55

So, as a provider, um in my my rule of thumb is I will give 30 days notice. But that's out of respect to not only the company that I'm working for, it's respect to the to my patients as well. And so, you know, I'm not gonna come in one day and say, hey, hey, I'm out and you know, grab my stuff and go. I feel like if you have that rapport with your patients, then you know, you need to respect them and say, hey, and give give that 30-day notice. And the same thing with your company as well, sure. And I think, you know, later on, if they happen to call that company for references, things like that, it's just gonna look good.

Jason Gleason 31:26

Yeah. Well, and I know in some states it's actually law that you have to give your patients so much time as a notice. You got to send out a letter and say, I'll continue to provide care for you until such and such a date. And sometimes that's written into law. So for our listeners out there, check with your state laws, make sure you're doing everything by the book. And again, and we say this from the very top of our programs of every podcast, we're not here to be your lawyer, we're not here to give you legal advice. That's not our specialty, right? We're here as your friends, you know, and we're just giving ideas and thoughts that we would have done or lessons that we have learned over the years to share with you and places that where we might have screwed up and wish we would have done things differently so you don't make the same mistakes. But hopefully, all that's helpful to you. But again, seeking that legal advice when those questions are out there is so important uh to consider and to and to really focus on uh so you don't get yourself stuck somewhere where you're in a lot of trouble legally. So, other things to consider for our friends, termination with cause versus without cause. That's so important to know about and have that in the contract spelled out in black and white. And the required notice period, as Christopher said, 30 days. Some contracts require 60 or even 180 days. And let's say life gets in the way and you have some big event where you have to move. You've got to move. You and your family have to move to a different area, so you have to quit your job. Some employers will bring this contract out and say, nope, you've signed on the line for 180 days and we're holding you to it. Most of them are kind, understanding people, and they will let you out of your contract early in those cases. But if not, that could be a legal fight for you. So even that those notice periods, like the extended ones, like 180 days notice. Are you kidding me? So make sure you look at the fine print. And you might think on day one, well, that's not a big deal. I'm never gonna leave this area or this practice. You never know.

Christopher Gleason 33:08

Actually, Vanessa, I want to touch base with you on that. You know, all you work with contracts. What do you think about, you know, how much time should you give? How much notice should you give?

Vanessa Pomarico 33:17

So the the typical notice is 90 days. And I'm gonna tell you why. You give your notice, and now they have to think about we need to put an ad somewhere, we need to get it out. You know, back in the day, they used to put it in a newspaper. If there's a job in a newspaper, I think that'd be the last place I would look for a job, but they have to post it somewhere. They have to get time to get the CVs in, sift through the CVs, you know, go through them, decide who you're gonna interview, bring those people in for interviews, and then start to, you know, say, did they make it through the first round of interviews? Do they go now to the second round where they meet with uh instead of just the office manager they're meeting or HR, they're now gonna meet with the office manager, or they might meet with the practice manager or the, you know, the physicians in the in the practice, you know, and then they have to hire them. And that person has to give notice. So when you think about 90 days, it's not a really long time for somebody to give notice if you want to do the right thing and end up on a good note. You know, I never left any of my jobs on a bad note. I always did the most appropriate and professional thing. But people also have to understand, too, that you can give notice and they might escort you out of the building that day because they don't want you to take your patient panel with you.

Jason Gleason 34:33

Yep.

Vanessa Pomarico 34:34

So you have to be careful about that. So, you know, 90 days is about the average. Um, 30 days is on the shorter end, but it all depends on what state you live in and who you're working for. So you really need to make sure that you know what your termination clauses are.

Jason Gleason 34:49

Another important element to consider is non-compete, non-solicitation, uh, which we've already talked about in depth. Other things you want to consider under that key point are radius, you know, like Vanessa said, how far am I allowed to get a job now, right? Within a radius of my previous employer, where can I work? Is it, you know, 80 miles? Is it 500 miles? That's important stuff to know. The duration of how long that is in place and whether it really exiles you away from your community and your family. It's a big deal. That's a big legal issue. Malpractice, which we're gonna talk about in an upcoming episode all by itself, but you have to have that written into your contract too, occurrence versus claims made and who pays the tail if you leave. We're gonna talk about the tail aspect of malpractice insurance in our coming episodes. So stay tuned for that. That's an important uh element. And then repayment clauses, as we also talked about, sign-on bonuses, relocation, CME, clawbacks, and how they are prorated, all of that is so important. And remember, if you don't understand it, because sometimes they use it as a negotiating strategy to make it so complex for you that you're just overwhelmed and you just sign anyway. If you don't understand it, ask the questions. And if that employer has a real hard time explaining it to you, it doesn't mean you're dumb. You're not getting it. You know, we're just not negotiating, we're not uh, you know, contract lawyers. You know, we're none of us do that. And sometimes, again, they use it as a business strategy to confuse and to kind of make it a quagmire for you. Just sign the contract kind of thing. But don't fall into that. If your gut is telling you, I still don't get this information, I can't calculate this out for what I'm gonna be making or what my benefits are gonna be, it might be a key sign that you maybe should go somewhere else for a job, right? Because they're making it pretty complex for you. And then moonlighting, this is a big deal. Big topic here, moonlighting, because some contracts out there will tell you you're it, right? You can only work for us and no one else. Any thoughts on that topic, Christopher?

Christopher Gleason 36:41

Actually, it's interesting that you bring this up because my first contract as a nurse practitioner had this in it, this moonlighting clause in it, that you couldn't that um they didn't allow moonlighting. Also, if you working as a so as some of you may know, or most of you may know, I'm a captain in the army. And is when you're on active duty status as a provider, a lot of the times they won't let you do moonlighting with that either. So those are definitely things to keep into consideration.

Jason Gleason 37:05

Vanessa have you had any experience with moonlighting?

Vanessa Pomarico 37:08

I do. And one of the things I want to uh mention as well is that you know, even teaching is moonlighting. Or I I actually, you know, when I was working at a different practice uh and I was doing a lot of national speaking, the physician owner came to me and said, You work for me, so I want a percentage of what you're bringing in when you're moonlighting. And I said, You're not the one doing the work, and that's not in my contract.

Jason Gleason 37:33

Boy.

Vanessa Pomarico 37:34

And so he tried to put it in the next contract. I X'd it right out, and I said, Absolutely not. I said, You have nothing to do with what I do when I moonlight, and it has nothing to do with this practice. You don't cover my insurance. I carry my own malpractice insurance, a supplemental policy that covers me for my consulting work, and it has nothing to do with you. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't even mention the name of my practice when I was speaking just for that reason. So you have to be, you have to be really on top of it. Yeah.

Jason Gleason 38:02

Just what, you know, I don't know who has the biggest balls in that situation, him for asking it. Yeah, you know, but way to go. That's incredible that you push back. And that's what we want our listeners to get to, that point where they say, I've got this, and to go in there into these negotiations with confidence and to be kind and respectful, but also don't settle for less or settle for garbage like that, right? You know, as far as moonlighting goes, I think one important consideration is that we got to be respectful of the employer too, right? Like if we're moonlighting, if we're working at a clinic during the day and then we go to work for the competition at night at their walk-in clinic, that that's not good business practice. I would never do that, right? So you have to have balance here, and I understand why some employers really hammer down on moonlighting because of those issues that come up. So you got to be respectful and smart about it. But yeah, I agree with you all that moonlighting, it's your license. You can do whatever you want to do with it, right? They should not hamper that or restrict that and certainly not ask you for part of the pay of the income that you're making. So good on you, Vanessa, for standing up to that. That's really good stuff. All right, here's our last hot topic to talk about. What strategies would you suggest for NPs to ask for what they want and truly deserve?

Christopher Gleason 39:15

I think I'm gonna defer to Vanessa for this just because you of your study in this um this topic, Vanessa.

Vanessa Pomarico 39:22

Well, thank you, Christopher. So, you know, again, this is all about empowering people and not being afraid to ask for what you want. Don't ask for a salary that's so far out of the range that they're gonna look at you and go, yeah, okay, you're a new grad. We're not gonna give you that. You know, but and and that's not to discount all of your nursing experience that you bring to the table with you, because some people will say, well, I've, you know, I'm 25 years as a nurse. That's great. You bring that with you, but they're also gonna look into how is that gonna translate into dollars for me in this practice? Like, why should I hire you? What are you gonna bring to the table for me? But but do your homework. I mean, you have to do your homework. You can't go into a job interview completely blind and not have done your homework on comparative salaries to see what's in your area and use more than one website. I usually use three different websites and kind of get an average of you know what is out there in that particular area and really standing firm on what you want and then deciding what are you willing to give up? And what are you willing to say, okay, I'll acquiesce on this because I really like the job. The hours are good, you know, it's close to my house, I've got some flexibility, you know, or are they gonna say, well, no, you are here until the last patient leaves, whether they come in two hours late or not. We're not gonna pay for any admin time. So you're gonna see 40 hours of clinical hands-on patients, and you'll be documenting on your own. You know, you have to make that decision. I hear from nurse practitioners all the time, you know, I don't like this because I'm I'm constantly documenting on the weekends and at home. And we talked about this in an earlier episode. Dot phrase, dot phrase, dot phrase, template, template, template. Absolutely, you know, dictation, anything that's gonna make it streamline for you so that when you leave at the end of the day, you don't take your work home with you. And that's what you want and that's what you deserve.

Christopher Gleason 41:18

Absolutely. Yeah.

Jason Gleason 41:19

What about you, Jason?

Vanessa Pomarico 41:20

What do you think?

Jason Gleason 41:21

You know, I uh what I would do, you know, when I think about, and and again, looking at my lessons learned over two decades of practice, what I would do if I went into a contract negotiation or even an interview, because usually they do contract negotiations at interviews sometimes, and and our listeners may run into that, but either or I would go in there and I would act like I own the moment, right? Go in there with confidence, like you deserve this, you know, don't settle for less, own the moment, but also be very humble and don't approach it like a standoff, like us versus them, but more of a discussion about developing a partnership and a win-win, a win for both. And so, Vanessa, I love what you said and Christopher. What I would do is be very well prepared when you go in there. The American Association of Nurse Practitioners, we have great information on outcomes that NPs have in communities, not only just cost and quality, you know, patient satisfaction, all of those great numbers. Gather that stuff up, bring that to your contract negotiation or your interview, slide it across the table and tell the employer this. This is what NPs do across the country. If you have access to data, what they've done in your local area, bring that. This is what they do in the country. This is what they've done in our local area, and this is what I'm going to do for you. And this is why you should give me this in return. So I would go in there very well prepared, as you talked about. The other thing I would consider is this, you know, it's so easy for an employer to say, nope, we can't pay you that much money, right? It's very easy for them to knock out, you know, what you're requesting individually. But here's the magic in the sauce, I would say, is bundle your discussions, right? Say, you know what, here's the salary I want. And maybe it's not, let's say it's even below what they offer you for a salary, but you say, but I want that bundled with this amount of time off. I want Friday's off or Monday's off or whatever you want, right? For time off. Think about these things before you even go in. Write them down so you stick to it. So here's the salary I want. And maybe you do negotiate with them, and maybe it's a little under their offer, even. But then the magic in the sauce is I want it bundled with these other stipulations. Here's my time off. I want this for my health insurance, whatever you want. If you bundle that together, that's negotiable. They'll work with that. It's so easy for them to say nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. It's much harder for them to say no to a bundle of benefits and information and things you really truly want for that dream job of yours out there. So those are the two pieces of advice I would suggest our listeners to consider.

Christopher Gleason 43:48

And um, I just want to bring up one more thing, too, is when you're going into those contract negotiations, and Vanessa and you know, Jason, all of us have talked about the of salary, you know, but I think it's important before you go into that. Um That contract negotiation, use uh um websites like Glassdoor or Indeed because oftentimes they will give you a range of the salary. You know, that you if you look up nurse practitioner salary in my area, it'll give you a range of what the salary is. And that can be so important when you're going into that contract negotiation. Yeah.

Jason Gleason 44:17

One one other tip that I'd throw out there too, because you know, anybody can turn on the shine temporarily for a few hours or a few days or weeks, right? And including employers. And so what I would do during a negotiation is say, you know what, this contract looks great. I'm not gonna sign it right now. I'm gonna think about it over the next few days. And if they try to rush you, that is a big red flag for you to walk away. Yeah, right. Just walk out of the room. Don't even look back. But tell them you need a few days. But here is another piece of the magic in the sauce, I would say. I'm gonna sign this in a few days, hopefully. I want to review it, or I want an attorney to review it with me. And if they object to that at all, that's another big red flag. Walk out of there. But tell them this. And what I'd really like to do over these next few days is consider this, but I'd also like to come in and spend maybe four hours of time with your staff, with the people I'm gonna be working with, because they will tell you the goods on the organization, right? Wouldn't you both agree? Absolutely. You'll learn so much. Yeah, and you might learn things like, I don't want to be here. I don't, I this is not the right place for me, right? Because you're stuck once you sign that contract. So I I've done that approach in a few organizations, and I'm thankful I did because I learned so much more by spending boots on the ground with the staff and learning more about the organization. And most of the time you'll find out that the organization's wonderful and it's gonna be a great place to work, and they're just happy to have you there and they're gonna be great colleagues and friends. But sometimes you're finding out it's a total nightmare, and you thank goodness you didn't sign that contract, but you didn't invest that time. So not days on end or a week, but even a few hours, you know, just to spend with them.

Vanessa Pomarico 45:46

So you know, so it you were talking about that five days is the uh acceptable amount of time, five business days for someone to review a contract. So if they say we'd like you to sign right now after they've interviewed you for 15 minutes or 30 minutes, that's a big red flag, like you said. But to say and and and be firm on that. I would like my attorney to take a look at this. I will get back to you on such and such a date. And just leave it at that. And if they really push you for it, then you need to question yourself if that's where you really want to be working, because if they want you to hurry up and push and sign on the dotted line, something is wrong there.

Jason Gleason 46:23

Not a good fit, not a good fit.

Vanessa Pomarico 46:26

Oh, I'm sorry, but one of the things you were talking about, um, shadowing, the other important piece about shadowing, and I mentioned this in one of our previous podcasts, is it gives you an idea about the prescribing habits of your practice colleagues. And that's really important because if they're not good antibiotic stewards and you have to cover them when they're away on vacation, you're gonna get those phone calls from those patients to say, well, Dr. So-and-so just gives me a ZPAC with a refill in case the first one doesn't work. Is that really what how you want to like compromise your license? So that will give you a really good idea to see if the practice are good antibiotic stewards, whether or not they're writing a lot of narcotics and that kind of thing. So it'll give you a really good idea is not just what the staff is gonna tell you about it, you'll also be able to find out if the staff, if there's a high turnover in staff, that should be kind of a red flag. But also, too, it'll give you an idea how the office runs, how patients are spoken to, and how your practice practice colleagues actually practice.

Jason Gleason 47:25

Yeah, knowing the culture is so, so vital because you're gonna be working there, hopefully. Yeah, and you want that. You want to know ahead of time. So here's some tips for our friends out there. And again, this is in our show notes under each of these sections that we're talking about, so you don't have to write things down. So here's a few scripting uh tips for you for negotiating your contract. How to ask without apology. So often we go into negotiations or even job interviews like timid and and you know, stressed out, and we'll just accept anything they say. Don't do that and don't be apologetic. You don't have to apologize when you disagree with somebody. So open with alignment. This is so key. Say something like, I am excited about this role. I want to set us up for a great long-term fit. Employers would love to hear that. Long term, they would love to hear that. They would love to hear that. So open up with things like that when you're opening a negotiation. Ask for specifics. This is another key point for our listeners out there that are that is in the show notes. Can we adjust the ramp for the first 90 days and define mentorship time? Get it in writing, be very specific. Negotiate in bundles, as I mentioned, trade salary. Yeah, I'll take a little hit to my salary, but I want you to pay my CME or my paid time off. I want you to bump that up. Negotiate in bundles instead of individually, because it's a lot less likely that they're going to deny a bundle of information and things that you want instead of just the individual, like I just want this salary and I don't care about anything else. Bundle it together. It's much, much easier for you to get what you want when you do that. And then get it in writing if we discussed and really stressed over and over again. Verbal promises that disappear, leadership changes, written terms, they protect you long term. And then practice a calm no. You don't want to get all emotional during these negotiations either. You want to be a calm cookie throughout these negotiations. Don't get upset about it, but practice that ahead of time, especially if you're somebody out there that tends to get emotional during times where you feel like there's a conflict or some disagreement. Practice ahead of time. Things like, you know, that doesn't work for me. Here's what would work for me, though. You know, thank you so much, but that's that's not gonna work for me, but here's what would, and give them an alternative. So here are some resources that we're gonna share with you. And this is on your screen in front of you. This will also be in the show notes. And what we're sharing with you, these are some links to the Federal Trade Commission non-compete rules. So there's a link there for that website you can go to. Great information there. And then state by state, here's a map. We're also gonna share that link with you, and it's in the show notes on the screen in front of you. A state by state map regarding more information on non-compete clauses that is there for you. Great information, platinum gold. So that was such a great discussion on our hot topics. Let's go into our factor fiction segment of our program as we work through contract negotiations, and this is where we throw out a question and we talk about whether it's fact or fiction. So here's our first question. Chris and Vanessa, you ready for this? All right, negotiating benefits. You're all set, right? You're all set. I feel like I should have a button. You know, buzzword's ready. So negotiating benefits can matter as much as negotiating salary. Fact or fiction?

Christopher Gleason 50:34

Fact, absolutely.

Jason Gleason 50:35

I would say so. If a contract has a non-compete, it can never be enforced. That's fiction. Fiction. Total fiction. They will go after it, they'll enforce it big time.

Vanessa Pomarico 50:45

You should and remember that you can be sued for perceived loss of income. So if you break that non-compete, you can be the the practice can come after you for that perceived loss of income for you know a year.

Jason Gleason 51:02

And we're not talking like five or ten thousand, we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars, right? Right.

Vanessa Pomarico 51:07

When you think about how much money you bill out in the course of a year, that's what you can get sued for.

Jason Gleason 51:12

It will take you for it. They'll take you for it. Right. You should get any verbal promise in writing before you sign. Absolutely. Total fact. And then asking for time to review a contract is a red flag to employers. That's fiction. You should that's a good business sense. Absolutely. Yeah, be well informed. Here's some great questions from our listeners out there across the country for our segment that we consider the mailbox. So let's take a look at some of your questions. And we truly love this segment because we can interact with you one-on-one and share the information with our entire audience across the country and around the world. So here's a great question. What clause in your offer letter has worried you the most in prior contracts? Vanessa.

Vanessa Pomarico 51:57

So you really have to look at all of them. So the non-compete, as we talked about, your termination clause, everybody needs to know what the terms of their contract are. Is that contract going to be for a year? What is your productivity pay going to be like? What is your termination clause? You don't want to think about starting a new job and then getting fired, but let's face it, things happen. And if you practice, then they can pull in that termination clause and escort you out the door. So you need to know what that protection is. Again, having that salary protection is also good in case you are terminated unlawfully. You also have to think again about your productivity, your malpractice, which we're going to talk about in an upcoming segment where we'll talk about tail coverage, but also taking call. So important to know if you need to take call. We we talked about this in one of our previous episodes, but I'm going to just talk about it real quick. You know, taking call is a responsibility for our practice. Now, you guys are lucky. You work in the, you know, the the um Taj Mahal of all practices, that you don't have to worry about taking clause because you work for the VA system. But for the rest of us, somebody has to cover those patients. It's a law that somebody has to be on call. Taking call is an expectation of our practice, but again, is it going to be one of those things where you might get one or two calls in the course of a night? Or are you going to get 300 calls in the course of a weekend? So it's always good to ask those questions before you sign on the dotted line. Tell me about your call. How busy is it? How many calls do you get? What kind of calls do you get? Do you have to go into the office or into the hospital to see the patients? So it's good to get that all teased out.

Jason Gleason 53:36

All right, moving on to another listener's question. Let's take a look at this one. And this one will be for you, Christopher and Vanessa. Feel free to chime in. How do you negotiate when an employer says, this is our standard contract? This is it. Leave it or take it. It's it. What would you do?

Christopher Gleason 53:51

I think this kind of goes back to what we were saying earlier about making sure that you're you're willing to say no when you're going in going into these meetings. Because the last thing you want to do is get yourself into a contract where you're going to just regret working there. You know, especially if the contract is for so many, so many years or what have you, I mean, then you're just gonna you're just gonna regret becoming a nurse practitioner because you're gonna regret your practice. Yeah. Vanessa, what do you think?

Vanessa Pomarico 54:15

I I completely agree, Christopher. You know, when you think about it, a year is a very long time. And standard contracts are typically for 12 months. It's a long time if you have terms of a contract that are not doable. And, you know, I say this over and over again, but shadowing and hiring a contract attorney is an investment in your future. So to say, I don't want to spend another $400 or $500 to hire a contract attorney, it's a drop in the bucket, you know, that you have to spend rather than being there after three months and saying, what did I get myself into? And now you're gonna have to hire an attorney to get you out of it. It's gonna cost you a lot more money. So even if they say this is our standard contract, there's always room for negotiation.

Jason Gleason 55:00

Excellent. Excellent points. So moving on, here are three take-home tips for you. From all the information we shared, here's three take-home tips for you this week. Ask for comp RVU formula in writing. Again, in writing is key. And make sure that formula is easy to understand and you fully understand it. Just don't kind of fake your way through it because that's going to impact things big time for your pay. Request an editable contract copy. This is another key tip. Request an editable contract copy. If it's a word file, tell them to send it to you so you can go through it and make edits and changes and then represent that to them. Ask for one change you actually care about, like a schedule, CME, signing bonus, tail coverage, whatever it is. And again, bundle it together and practice that before you go into your negotiation so you're all set and you're well prepared to work through that. Your homework for this week, and we call this section our weekly NP practice project. So your homework for this week is to write your ask list. What are the top things you want to be in a contract? What do you want to bring to the table? Slide across and ask for them to approve. And again, bundle them together because it's so much more difficult for them to deny a bundle instead of individual things. And be ready to negotiate, right? Develop a partnership. Don't go in there like it's a standoff. That's so so important to consider. So that's our podcast on contract negotiations. Thank you for tuning in so much. All of you are friends out there, you're colleagues of ours. Again, we don't see you as an audience or customers or anything like that. You're our friends and you're our colleagues. So please stay in stay in touch with us. Reach out to us or our email nplaunchpad at fhea.com. We would love to hear from you, your comments, your questions, and we'll read some of that during our podcast sessions and time together. So do me a favor, if you would, and we mentioned this at the end of every podcast, but it's so important because we want to build our community. We want to build this great community of NPs and students. And even if if they're if you're not an NP out there, but a healthcare professional of some kind that wants to learn more about our profession or help NPs and support them, it is so easy. Please drop a five-star rating, hit follow, tap subscribe, and most importantly again, share this podcast with your friends and colleagues out there so we can build our community and build a strong community together. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. We'll see you at our next episode.

Christopher Gleason 57:20

You've been listening to NP Launchpad, presented by Fitzgerald Health Education Associates. Like, subscribe, and share. And for more tools to power your NP career, visit FHEA.com.