Conversations with Candidates: Doug Chapin (D), Primary Candidate Minnesota CD-6

In this episode of Nobody's Side, I speak with Doug Chapin. Doug is a Democratic candidate for Minnesota's sixth congressional district. Doug is a lawyer, founder of electionline.org (a nonpartisan source of election policy news), and successfully lobbied for military and overseas voting reform in Congress -- he is self-described "elections geek." I speak with Doug about our divisions, challenges, and the importance of respect within our system.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

My name is David Combs, and this is Nobody's Side. In this episode of my Conversations with Candidate series, I speak with Doug Chapin. Doug is running for Congress out of Minnesota's 6th district. We talked a lot about the challenges facing America and potential solutions.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

I think we can disagree with one another without using the really ugly, hateful rhetoric. And I think far too often it's easy to use ugly rhetoric as kind of a shortcut to that adrenaline rush. I think all of us on both sides need to be more measured in their rhetoric. But I again I think we just have to treat folks with respect.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Can you please just introduce yourself, uh, your name, where you're running, and the office you're seeking?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Sure. My name's Doug Chapin. I live in Hanover, Minnesota, and I'm running for the 6th Congressional District.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Um, as I think you know, as we were we were talking offline, the primary purpose of this sort of like line of interviews that I've been doing is in many cases to interview first-time candidates or folks who are very new to this kind of experience. So as I understand it, you're a first-time candidate. And can you tell me a little bit about how you arrived at the decision to put yourself forward? Because I think a lot of people talk about this. A lot of folks say I should do this someday, but you did it. You decided I'm doing this. What was that like? And what drove you to sort of cross that threshold that maybe a lot of folks don't?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yeah, I honestly, it was it was a single news event. Um, I worked my entire career in democracy and elections. I've helped make elections better from the inside. Um, I believe in the political process. I've worked on Capitol Hill. I was happily preparing to be a retired election geek. And then on a on January 20th, 2025, um, the newly re-elected president pardoned the January 6th rioters. Um, and it was in that moment that I realized that pretty much four decades of my life was at risk of going down the drain because in my mind, the barbarians were literally at the gates. And that was when I made the decision that rather than be on the inside making things better a little bit at a time, that I needed to actually get out front and defend the democracy that I've been working to improve.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

So this doesn't sound like it was much of a thing that you wrestled with or kind of went back and forth. This was a moment of clarity.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, I mean, I decided to do it. I mean, you know, you kick the tires on it, right? You so I, you know, being an election geek, I definitely went and pulled down the election returns and got a sense of what it looked like. Um, but really, as of January 20th, my presumption was that I was gonna run unless I could figure out a reason not to. And it was pretty clear that there was no reason not to. So I've pretty much been all in from like the beginning of February of 2025.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

What is so as an election geek, you probably have a much better sense of this than a lot of people might. A lot of the folks that I've spoken with, this is a very new experience for them. For you, you probably have a little bit of a better sense of it. So, but with that, even though I suspect you have a good sense of it, maybe more than some, I bet there's been some things that have very much surprised you about this experience. Can you tell me a little bit about the things for someone who's never done this before? What did you go, was not expecting that?

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, I think that the the the thing that has struck me the most is how much time it takes. It I mean, if you're doing it right, it takes time. I think very often we think about TV ads and televised debates and and and all of the kind of the glitz of politics. But you know, when they talk about shoe leather, um they're not kidding. Um, I have between my shoes and the tires on my car, um, we've put in over 35,000 miles since the beginning of February, whether it's going to local Democratic meetings, whether it's going to festivals, whether it's going to parades, whether it's just showing up to where people are. Here in Minnesota, as I imagine in other states around the country, we have lots of rallies about um, you know, whether it's no kings or ice out or, you know, you name it. Um it's been, it really is a full-time job. And I one of the reasons I've been able, other people got into it at the beginning. And I think one reason why I'm still standing and they're not, is because I had the time to do it pretty much full time. I constantly have people saying to me, Oh gosh, you know, I'm so sorry, you know, that you must have a to interrupt your busy schedule. And I keep having to remind people, y'all are my busy schedule. You're the reason why I'm doing this. So I for me, it's the amount of time it takes. It's not something that you just sort of plug into and unplug from. It's almost constant.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

I I've heard that from some folks who I've spoken with that one thing that very much surprised them in that time space was the amount of time and effort it takes to fundraise. How is how are you, without going into too much many details, if you don't want to, what has that experience been like for you?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I know it it's been, it's for me, it's been a little bit interesting. So um, I mean, really quick for your um your your viewers, um, Minnesota is a little bit different. We have caucuses here where the parties, both the DFL and the Republicans, have caucuses through which they endorse candidates for office. And so the first step to becoming a con a candidate, at least for one of the major parties in Minnesota, is to be endorsed by the party. And that's a caucus process that goes through first a statewide caucus, then individual district conventions, and then a congressional district convention, which will be held at the end of April. Initially, there wasn't a lot of fundraising because there were at one time as many of eight of us considering running, and there were candidate forums. And so most folks who weren't related to me or my friends weren't giving because they wanted to know you were going to be the candidate. Um, I'm now pretty much the only one left. I have one other person who's got sort of a pro forma candidacy. Um, but even then, folks still wanted to make sure that I was gonna get the endorsement and go forward. So it was somewhat slow in calendar 25. Um, it was like I said, it was mostly family and friends. Um, I loaned my campaign um what for me was a lot of money, but is a little bit of money by campaign standards. Um it's as the field is blindled and as it's become more obvious that I'm the one who's gonna get the endorsement. Um, we've been able to start doing email fundraising and um we've had events around the the district where people will give us checks or we'll hit the act blue. Um, really, just in the last two, three weeks, I've started doing the kind of dial the phone for two hours and talk to people you don't know and ask them for money fundraising. And that's going pretty well. I mean, I I you end up leaving about 90% messages, um, but usually you could you can make pretty decent money. We expect that that will go um into overdrive once I get the endorsement at the end of April.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Um, okay, one last thing in this sort of background space. Um, for the viewers who may not know a whole lot about your district, tell me something about your district that outside folks wouldn't know. Something makes it special. You'd want people to know about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

The sixth district is really interesting. The sixth district, um, all of Minnesota was redistricted by the court after 20, the 2020 census. The legislature was unable to agree upon um new districts. Um, the sixth district is for folks who know Minnesota or maybe those who don't. So the Twin Cities, Minneapolis and St. Paul, form what's called the metro area or the Twin Cities Metro. The sixth wraps around it, almost like having a dog with a ball in its mouth. So from in the east in Onoka County, as far east as the city of Lino Lakes, wraps all the way around to the southwest to Carver County, Chanahasson, for those who know the area. And then it stretches up Interstate 94 to the St. Cloud area. It's by and large central Minnesota, and for the longest time it was kind of a rural central Minnesota district. But because the dog has its mouth around the ball that is the metro, the metro is pushing out into the district. And so we're, I think one of the things that I makes the sixth unique, at least in Minnesota, is that it's growing faster and is changing demographically at a pace that is really unusual for this state.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

As you know, um this show, more than being about sort of like the experience of running for office, is about values and is about divisions that we're facing as a nation. Can you tell me, and and for folks who are listening, can you tell me a little bit? I think everyone's got a few core values. Imagine maybe we have more than that, but there's a few things that are your core, the things that hit you right in the heart. Can you tell me a little bit about what those two or three core values are for you, where they come from, and how they shape your campaign?

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Sure. I think the one that probably that that drives me the most is a belief in the American system of government and specifically the Constitution. Um, I'm trained as an attorney, um, but I've also worked in and around Congress and state legislatures and what have you. And so the whole process of the rule of law, respect for authority, checks and balances is something I feel really strongly. And I think it's funny. One of the reasons why I think I feel that way, my dad was an engineer. Um, and dad was one of those people who could look at a machine and, you know, much like someone who can sort of sight read a piece on the piano, dad could kind of figure out how something worked just by looking at it. Um, I didn't get his mechanical sense. Um, but for me, government and the American system of government is kind of my own personal machine. I could feel like I could pop the hood on American government and I can see where how a bill would work, or how uh an executive order or a regulation would fix things, or how the balance between federal, state, and local governments is out of balance. So I feel really strongly in this notion that we as Americans walk into a polling place with this soup of opinions that each one of us has, and that that gets translated first into a concrete ballot, a concrete vote, which then drives the decisions we make at a massive scale in this country. So, number one, I think for me, it's belief in and commitment to the system of government. Um I think the next is this notion of uh of like justice and equality. Um shot through in the Constitution is this notion of equality and equal, you know, due process and what have you. I firmly believe that at the very least, people should have what they need to live, um, whether that's financial freedom, whether that's the ability to conduct, to do whatever work they want to do, the ability to love who they love, to marry who they want to marry, to be who they want to be. Um, and and so I think that the government has a role in, especially American government, has a role in protecting the rights of people to not only be who they are, but live the life that they want to live and not just survive, but thrive. Um, and then finally, I think that there's something to be said for community. I think that that one of the things that makes what I love about Minnesota, um, and I'm sure it's the case elsewhere, but I think it's especially strong here in Minnesota, is the sense of civic justice and not just governmental, but that that the way people look out for one another, the mutual aid we've seen in the wake of the ICE invasion. Um, the way Minnesota has always been a haven for immigrants, whether it's the Lutheran Church or the Catholic Church bringing people, refugees from other countries. Um, but even among people who've been here their entire lives, there's a really strong sense of community, not in the this is our place, and we've drawn borders around it, and nobody can come in, but a sense of pride in place that they want to share with others. And I those three things I think drive me more than anything else, not just in this race, but but in everyday life.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Let's pick up on that community point there. Um, I think that's that's really interesting and really important. So right now, and when I say community, I'm thinking about it a bit more, probably more macro than than the way that uh you were thinking about it. But right now, by essentially all measures, by surveys, polls, perspective, whatever it might be, the the community that is the United States, the the American public, seems just tremendously divided. I saw a a um a survey out of the Pew Research Center the other day, that maybe just a week or so ago, maybe two weeks ago, that said basically, of 25 nations surveyed, the only nation in that survey that suggested where respondents indicated that more of their fellow uh citizens are morally bad, more than 50% of Americans suggested that was America. 24 other nations did not say that. We say, when we look around that our fellow citizens on balance, about half of us say, yeah, they're not good people. What is going on with that? What is going on with us right now?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah, I honestly, I think that's a I think that's a symptom of the political process and the rhetoric that we have going on right now. And I freely admit that that that it's symptomatic on both sides. I think I I feel like that perhaps one side has a little more responsibility for it, but that's not really important. I think that that that for whatever reason in recent years, I don't know if it's in the last decade or so, that there's an old saw that people will stand in line longer to vote against something than they will to vote for it. Um, and for whatever reason, whether it's social media, whether it's improvements in messaging or developments in messaging, that kind of mutual fear and loathing has become a stock and trade uh in politics in this country. And I think what's interesting to me is that notwithstanding all of that, I really do in talking to folks around my district, um I think those divisions are far more illusory than real. That I think that that people believe that they're divided more. Or um research shows, for example, I and I'm sorry, kind of random. Um research shows that um people often don't have a lot of trust in Congress, but they like their own member of Congress. Um, there's always a lot more faith in local government than there is state government, which is more than federal government, that the that the farther away something gets, the less likely you are to trust it. Um and unfortunately, I think that what media, politics, whatever has done is it's created this distance between people who are physically proximate to one another. And I think one of the things that's been really interesting to me is talking to folks and watching them almost literally physically react that maybe we're not as different as they think we are. It's really easy to kind of fall back on these culture war fights. And I really feel like folks are a lot closer together on a lot of issues than you think they might be.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Can you give me an example of that? Because you you indicated it's it's often when you're out there and you're talking to people without saying more than you feel comfortable with, can you give me an example or two of when that's been true for you?

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah, I think I think, for example, um on some of the the issues about um like LGBTQ rights, um, I think there are a lot of people out there who get caught up in the whole culture war debate at the national level. And yet you very often talk to people in small towns who are very aware of which of their neighbors are gay. Um, and maybe they're not married, but you've got two people who are in a long-term same-sex friendship, um, which pretty much everybody recognizes as a romantic pairing or the equivalent to a marriage. And so I think that that that for all the talk about one side trying to impose its values on the other, I think there's in my mind, there seems to be a lot more tolerance at the micro level for one another than we have for one another at the macro level. That that that the closer you get to people, the harder it is to hate them, basically.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

That that's an interesting point. So in that space, do you feel like right now, to this point about the divisions possibly being illusory, or or once you get a little bit closer to things, maybe they're they're not quite so much. Do you feel like right now as a society we're at a place where we can really listen to one another? Because you you've made this interesting point, right? About how, hey, there's people in the neighborhood who maybe you disagree with, or maybe you you have a concern, or whatever it might be. But it seems like maybe people can actually talk to each other and treat each other with respect and dignity. But on the other hand, sometimes it feels like we really cannot. And so, in your observation of this, what do you think makes it difficult for people in our public right now, on the micro level, to talk to each other and not just to talk to each other, but perhaps more importantly, to listen?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Yeah, I think I again it's so easy to demonize media in general and social media in particular. Um, but I think it's undeniable that at least when I was growing up, you're a younger man than I am. But when I was growing up, you know, there were basically three national broadcast networks, and usually most communities had one at most two daily newspapers. And so you could be pretty confident that everybody was getting, if not identical, very similar news from similar sources. That's no longer the case at all, right? I mean, not only has mainstream media um been decimated, but the rise of social media, um I it feels like there are almost as many platforms as there are people on the internet, that that in many ways it's not that we can't talk to one another, it's we don't talk to one another because none of us are on the same channel anymore. And so I think a lot of what we need to do as a nation, and one of the things I'm trying to do as a candidate, is to reestablish that human connection. Um, and even, for example, we're gonna knock every door in my district as a congressional campaign, which is unusual, partly because we want to hear from people, but partly because we want people, even people who voted for the other party in the past, to see that I'm willing to come to their door and give them the chance to tell me to my face that they think I'm full of crap. Um, it's a lot harder to do that face to face to someone. And I think we have to give each other the opportunity to have those conversations and to give each other that grace.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Do you in in your experience of of knocking on doors, do is there some substantial proportion of people who do tell you in your words, you're full of crap? Or in general, are they a bit more willing to engage in a conversation even if they deeply disagree with you?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah, I so far, um, my experience has been is that the people who would really kind of unload on you um either don't answer the door or cut you off as soon as they know who you are. Um, I have had very few conversations where someone was willing to have a conversation and then wanted to be ugly about it. Now I've had conversations with people where we disagreed about certain things, and it was one of those, hey, I see where you're coming from, but I really disagree with you. And you know, if that's the issue you care about, you know, I might not be your guy this November. Um, but I I have felt like, with a couple of exceptions, that when you have those conversations with people, they walk away saying, I'm grateful that somebody who doesn't agree with me at least let me be heard. Um, and I, you know, selfishly, I would love every single one of those people to vote for me. Um, but just kind of in a in a in a larger sense, if I can help create an environment, at least in my district, where people feel like that we can disagree strongly about things, but do it in such a way where we're talking about ideas and not attacking one another, I think that's really, really important. So yeah, I mean, look, there are gonna be people out there who who think I'm, you know, the antichrist embodied, right? Um, but I don't think most of them um are gonna want to have a conversation unless they're that kind of person who just you know likes to start fights because they like fighting.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Um in that space, um, okay, so we we've got kind of these, whether we like to think about it this way or not, we've got kind of these two sides of the American political spectrum right now that maybe there's more division there than we think, maybe there's not. Um question for you is this so you're running as a Democrat, yes? Yes, I am. Uh we we probably should have said that at the at the top, but let's yeah. Um right now, when Democrats are operating in good faith, operating at their best, what are the kinds of things that Democrats are standing for and trying to achieve?

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Wow, it's a long list. Um I think it's probably I did one is economic issues. I think I think Democrats really do at their core believe in a commitment to work and working families across the country. Um, that's work of all kinds, right? Work in an office, work on a job site, work on a farm, work in a whatever. Um, and and focusing on good jobs, access to good benefits, access to things like affordable housing, affordable child care, reliable transportation, um, a life that allows you, as I said before, to thrive and not just survive. So I think there's a commitment to that. I do think there is a commitment to civil rights. I think that there is a much more of a commitment to protecting people from imposing a certain viewpoint on uh Americans. I think Democrats are relatively united on that. And I think right now, and that that Democrats, at least I won't say more than Republicans, but certainly more than the current Republican majorities in Congress, are much more dedicated to the rule of law and due process no matter who's in power.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Let's turn it around a little bit. When Democrats aren't operating as well as they ought, what are the kinds of mistakes that they're making? What are the kinds of things you kind of might go, oh no, not that. We've got to do better on whatever XYZ is. When they're not operating at their best, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

I think we're not when I I get frustrated with Democrats. Um, one of the lines that um that I say all the time is that you win, you don't win elections by winning arguments, you win arguments by winning elections. Um, and I think that there are far too many people out there um who overvalue ideological purity. I mean, there's one thing about sticking to your principles, um, but I think far too often, especially in our party, you get people who are like, well, I don't agree with that. So I'm I'm not gonna vote, or I'm gonna sit this one out, I'm gonna, I'm gonna protest that. I think that we get that sometimes. Um, I think sometimes the passion for civil rights can become hyper-focused on interest group politics, where rather than seeing us as a community where we protect the rights of everybody to be who they are, to love who they love, to work how they work, to view it as a series of um communities that that are like a that are linked together but don't share an identity otherwise, that we that we pigeon whole people into interest groups or isms or um what have you. Um and I think sometimes the focus on affordability or economic issues leads people to try and change the subject away from things that are just as important as economics, right? So um during the whole Epstein file issue that we've had going on, very often you know you'll see some members of Congress say, you know, yes, that's bad, but let's not forget that gas prices are rising. Or that it becomes a way to kind of pivot away from things that they don't want to talk about. I think we focus on affordability because affordability is important, not as safe ground when things get uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

All right. So Democrats have opponents, but Democrats, you know, struggle with, you know, from a democratic perspective, struggle with, you know, a Republican opposition. Let's let's do those same questions for Republicans. When Republicans are operating in good faith, when they're operating at their best, what are the kinds of things that, while they may be different from the way Democrats want to approach it, what are Republicans getting right when they're operating in good faith and what are they trying to accomplish?

SPEAKER_00 27:57

I think when I think when Republicans are operating in good faith, um, I don't know that it's necessarily more than Democrats, but I think it's a commitment to freedom, not just at home, but around the world, the concept of like individual liberty, the opportunity for um people to be free to do what they want. Um, I think that that that that is um this good. I think also I think commitment to freedom around the world, um, you know, making sure that that that we are siding with popular governments and not despotic or authoritarian governments. I think that that when when um Republicans are working well, that works. I think Republicans um have traditionally been better than Democrats, although I think Democrats are getting better at thinking about um the importance of business, the role that business plays. You know, that you know, we think about the worker, but we do have to think about the employer too. Um, and whether that's a big business or a small business, I think that that Republicans have often been a useful counterweight to Democrats. You know, Democrats want to maximize benefits that Republicans say, well, wait a minute, we need to make sure that we're allowing businesses to still make enough money to pay the workers to give them those benefits. Um and I think traditionally, Republicans have been the party that focus on the need for, or focused more on the need for fiscal responsibility with balanced budgets, you know, a narrow approach to spending, you know, recognizing that Americans aren't just citizens, they're also taxpayers. So I think the Republican Party that that I think works best, the one that I would like to debate with, even though I might not always agree with them, holds all three of those things in high stead.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

And I asked the same about Democrats last year, about Republicans. When they're not, when they're struggling and they are tripping over themselves or not operating as well they ought, what are the mistakes they're making?

SPEAKER_00 30:15

Um I guess working backwards. I think I think that sometimes um, you know, there's that famous saying that, you know, what's good for um what's good for General Motors is good for America. I don't think that's always the case. I think that sometimes we can overvalue the need to focus on big business. I think that we can um I think sometimes we get so focused on the bottom line or shareholder value that we forget that there are actually important things um that these companies do for real people and not just stockholders. I think that's that that it's one thing to represent the interests of business, it's another thing to overweight it in the debate over what to do next. So I think that sometimes um Republicans go too far in respecting the need for business or for wealthier individuals than maybe they do for other Americans. Um I think that on the on freedom, I think that that sometimes when Republicans aren't doing as well, I feel like they value individual freedom at the expense of community. Um, and I think they can also sometimes veer into um attempts to sort of morally police other people. There's that great saying, right, that says that if if you don't want to do something because your religion doesn't allow it, I respect that. But if you don't want me to do something that your religion doesn't allow, you can pound sand. Um and I think that that sometimes, um, and especially recently, we're seeing a lot of um people using their own belief in religious freedom as a way to limit the freedom of others. Um and then finally, I think that that around the world, and I don't know if this is so much an ideological thing or if this is more a symptom of the current administration, um, we seem to have abandoned the concept, at least the Republicans have, of abandoned the concept of alliances with other nations, nations, um, the idea of soft power as a way to protect people around the world. Um, and we seem to be closing up to a lot of um really anti-democratic and even sort of predatory countries around the world. I think that that we want to project strength, but we seem to be worshiping it a little bit more than I'm comfortable with right now.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

A second ago, you talked a little bit about your experience um knocking on doors and speaking with folks. And um some folks are gonna agree with you, some folks are not, all the rest. So let's let's let's project a little bit. We head into November, you win. You know, you're heading to Washington. I imagine if that were to happen, that's gonna be quite a day for you and for your family. Um, if that occurs, inevitably there's still gonna be a a substantial chunk of your district of folks who voted against you really do not want you there. What are some ways that you are specifically gonna try and go about building trust with those individuals and showing them that you are there for them, though they may badly want you gone. How are you gonna specifically approach that?

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Yeah, I I it it sounds idyllic, but I mean, I really do believe that any elected official, but in my case and a member of Congress, represents the entire district, not just the people who voted for them. Um, one of the things that my opponent has not done well for several years, even several terms, is have a presence in the district. Uh, and so one of the things that we're telling people that I fully intend to follow through on is that we will have a regular presence in the district, not just an office, but I would like to have at least monthly in-person town halls where people can come and not like a hey, wow, here's why I'm great, but here's what I've done now. What do you think? Um, and let people get up and say, I think you got this wrong, or I think you're not doing this, or so did I fight to win this race in November, but when I win, I will fight for the people who didn't vote for me as much as the people who did. That I represent the district, not just the majority who voted for me. And so it's easy to say that, but we're the goal will be to show not tell through increased presence of the office in the district, increased presence for me. Um the current incumbent has a bad reputation for not answering the phone, not answering emails, not answering letters with anything other than a canned form letter. Um, even if it's extra work, I think it's really important that people. I don't promise to agree with you, but I promise to at least say that I heard what you heard you you said. Um, and I think that's uh gonna be a big part of what we do when we head to Washington next January.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Let's take this up a level. So that's how you might go about trying to build trust with the people who are your constituents who may not want you there. Now, at the congressional level, you're gonna have new colleagues. You're gonna have folks there who are on the other side of the aisle. And right now, I mean, we we hear these stories, right? Of like of like a previous Congress where members who are of opposite parties would get together and have lunch or whatever it might be. Those things seem to have died um over over the years, decades, whatever it's been now. How would you go about very specifically? And do you have any plans specifically to say no? I am reaching out to folks on the other side. I'm going to meet with them, I'm going to build trust. Whatever it is that is the way you're thinking about it. How are you thinking about that?

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, I think there's a difference between treating people with respect and um starting from a position of compromise. Um, compromise and bipartisanship has been important in Washington through the years. Unfortunately, I don't think that era is at least on hiatus right now. As I say all the time on the stump, you can't shake hands with someone who's slapping you. Um, and so I think that one of the things that I intend to do, hopefully as a member of a new majority in Congress, is to work with my fellow Democrats to do what Democrats did here in Minnesota when they had control of the legislature and push for the things that we believe in and win as much as we can. And in so doing, I think earn the respect of members of the minority and then look for opportunities to compromise there. But I think that that we as Democrats need to be more muscular, not ugly, not mean, but muscular to use the power that the voters have given us to do the things they sent us to Washington to do. And then if members of the minority want to come along and be a part of that or give us guidance on how what we're proposing isn't quite what should be done, then do that. I think we lead with a we lead with the spirit of we're gonna do what our voters sent us here to do, and then bring other members along. I think that when you ask permission, that's when things fog down. And again, in the current environment, you can't shake hands with someone who's slapping you.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Let's change gears a little bit. Um, we were talking a little bit a minute ago about surveys and polls and all the rest. And as someone who says spent you know the entirety of my career in a research space, um, these are things I really enjoy. So traditionally speaking, people have said uh America's best days are ahead. You know, there's the Americans have traditionally been a bit of an optimistic bunch. Over the last number of years, we have seen that really fall off. Um people are deeply concerned about about a number of things. I was speaking with someone, I was interviewing some of the other day whose concern was AI and someone else is concerned about this or that, but a serious concern that our best days um are behind us, not in an idyllic sense, oh, things were so great back then, but just like, oh, it's gloomy to look forward. And then in addition to that, there's other surveys that also suggest um that people believe that the American dream, that sense of you know, hard work pays off, you can have it, you know, have your home, put your kids through school, all those kinds of things, just isn't functioning. And so I wonder if you can speak a little bit about from your perspective, what is driving this American pessimism? Because that has not been us, even in other divided moments, that pessimism has not been a feature of the American public. What is going on as far as you can tell?

SPEAKER_00 39:08

I honestly, I think I think it's people's lived experience. Um, you know, we I I've talked to farmers and I've talked to lots of young people. Um, for lots of people in our rural communities and for lots, far too many young people today, yesterday it was better than today, which means today is going to be better than tomorrow. And so to sort of blindly say that we're just going to make things better, you know, these people are living with a day crescendo, not a crescendo. Um, so I think one of the things that we need to do is we need to look for opportunities to turn back the clock to that American dream that folks used to have without, you know, the racism, the sexism, the xenophobia, right? But that, you know, there are far too many young people who make really good living and and and still can't afford to buy a house or to pay off their student loans or afford their health insurance because private equity has bought up all the housing stock and is renting it back to people, or um lenders continue to raise their rates on student loans so that folks are always paying the interest but never to principal. And we all know that health insurance is out of control. Same in rural communities. You know, you've got you've got farming families. It used to be that you know, a farmer and their spouse would have a generational farm and they would work it until they were ready to retire and then pass it on to their kids. Lots of kids not interested in being farmers anymore because it's not that good of a business. So suddenly you've got farmers sitting on what's essentially their retirement, the value in this home that they can't sell. So we have to look for opportunities. We have to admit that the current world isn't giving people evidence of optimism going forward. I think that we have to break the grip of private equity on lots of things. I think that we have to make sure that people can actually work for good wages and have benefits and not be in situations like gig economy or what have you, where they're working just enough hours not to get benefits. I think that we have to think about expanding housing stock or convincing state and local governments to rethink their land use rules so that we're not just building, you know, half a million dollar, three-quarter of a million dollar single family homes. Um, we we have to create the conditions where people feel like they can, again, I say this a million times, thrive and not just survive. But I think you're absolutely right. We have to admit it's not just pessimism, it's not just doom and gloom. For many people, things aren't better than they used to be. And if we don't change them, they're gonna continue to get worse. Um, and I will say, I've said that in a couple of town halls, and I've had um countless young people come up and say, thank you for saying that, because I feel like it's just me. Um, and it's not. I think that we really have to create conditions where people can feel like they're not just a hamster on a wheel.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Let me ask you a slightly tougher one about the the gloom. Well, at least I think it's tougher about the gloom people are seeing. Another set of surveys out recently um about violence in America, political violence in particular, right? We have seen uh in my lifetime, nothing like it. Now, again, going back in our past, obviously this is a thing America has struggled with, but we saw the Minnesota, you know, uh state lawmakers murdered in their homes, what was it, a year ago? Um not even a year ago. Yeah, not even a year ago. We we saw Charlie Kirk murdered at a rally, we see you know people people taking shots at the president or the um can't uh candidate uh Trump at the time. We see and this has gone on for some amount of time. And when I ask people about this, and when you see people um survey people survey responses, they go, This is really bad. This is really troubling. And so, in that sort of way, in terms of people being concerned, this is gonna get worse, do you share that concern that it's gonna get worse? And if so, how might we get better at this? Because this is this this troubles me maybe more than anything.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yeah, I think I I think that's a symptom of the the the distance that we have. Again, you know, it it's really easy to be a jackass if you are anonymous on a social media. And I think far too often people are so disconnected from one another that it that that that you can get spun up on whatever it is your your prior beliefs are. And unfortunately, I think that has given far too many people license um to go from thinking aggri thoughts to take. Taking violent actions. And look, you mentioned it. I mean, right now, unfortunately, Minnesota is the national capital for political violence. You know, we lost Speaker Hortman. Fortunately, we didn't lose Senator John Hoffman, who's not only back in the Senate, but is running for re-election. We lost Renee Good. We lost Alex Predy. We are, unfortunately, the epicenter of political violence in this country. And I'll be honest with you, I don't yet have paid security, but I know candidates who do. I have volunteers who watch the doors and were careful. I mean, the other night we were at a town hall and there were a group of people out in the parking lot acting sketchy. And so somebody called the sheriff just to make sure that nothing sideways would happen. I think that again, it's something that we have to confront face to face. I think that we as leaders have to, I think we can disagree with one another without using the really ugly, hateful rhetoric that you see. Um, I'm not going to spin into a diatribe about my opponent, who I think has been one of the worst offenders. Um, but I think that we can disagree with you can play fair and play rough without playing dirty. And I think far too often it's easy to use ugly rhetoric as kind of a shortcut to that adrenaline rush that we want people to have when we want them to agree with us. So I think I think all of us on both sides, again, I think it's more side one more one side than the other, need to be more measured in their rhetoric. But again, I think we just have to treat folks with respect and hope for the best. And in the meantime, folks like me are just gonna have to harden ourselves against the possibility of something going sideways. I don't like it, but I accept it.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

At this moment, do you think that as you see these sort of angry sides, do you think that in general, the American public on both sides of this divide, do most people because you used to see these surveys, right, where people would say, oh, we want members of Congress to come together to solve big problems, right? And this used to be like 80% or 90% of people used to say these kinds of things. I wonder about that now. Do people still want their members of Congress to work across the aisle to solve the kinds of problems that may be driving these kinds of division? Or do you think maybe that's not what the American public wants right now? And rather what it wants is no, I want my side to win. I want them to vanquish the other side, and I just want us to be in charge semi-permanently and the other side to go away. What do you think is more like more in the minds of the public right now? What of those two sort of options, let's say?

SPEAKER_00 46:54

I I yeah, I I I'm gonna say both and um I think I think what people crave is they want government to work, they want government to do the things they want it to do. Now we have differences about what that should be. Um, they want it to work. I think for far too many people, candidly, with good reason, they feel like government doesn't work. So if government doesn't work, they at least want to win the argument, right? So if we're not going to be able to um do something about um the ACA healthcare subsidies, for example, that they want the ability to say, well, it's the other side's fault that it didn't happen. Um, I think that one of the things that we have to do is actually show people that government can work, even if it means that that one party, at least for a little while, is pushing an agenda through and actually getting things done. Um to show people that the machinery really still can work. I think that right now people want to win the argument because they think there's no other alternative.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Interesting. Okay, two more. I know I know we're coming up on time. Two more for you. Um, sort of the the wind down questions. Um so imagine you're sitting down to coffee with someone and they're a voter. They do not agree with you. This is a person, but but this person is doesn't want to argue with you. This is the kind of person who goes, you know what? I want to hear from you. I want to know. You're probably not gonna convince them, you're probably not gonna change their mind all the way. But one way or the other, they want to understand you so they can at least understand sort of the way that your mind works about these kinds of things. If this person says, you know what, I'm not gonna argue with you, I'm not gonna cut you off, you've got three minutes to just talk. What are the kinds of things you'd want to tell them?

SPEAKER_00 48:51

I think I'd tell them that that I think that what Americans deserve, regardless of party, regardless of where they live, regardless of how old they are, um, is a government that works, that looks out for them. Paul Wellstone used to say, we all do better when we all do better, and government exists to make people's lives better. I think that we we owe that to people. Now we disagree about what better looks like, but government ought to be involved in that. For me, that means the things that I think transcend party. People want to feel, they want to feel physically safe, they want to feel like their communities are safe, they want to feel financially safe, they want to feel like their job is secure, they can afford their homes, they can afford their groceries. Um, they want to feel like their future is safe, that they can save for retirement or their kids' education or whatever else it is they want to do with their life. Um, and they want the world to be safe. Um, they want America to be protected from either like military threats from other countries, um, economic threats from other countries, but also things like um the environment and climate change. That we we all want those things. We might disagree about how to accomplish that, but we all agree on what that is. And to me, a well-functioning American government gives us the space and the time to have those discussions and hammer out solutions, which maybe not everybody will agree with, but everyone can live with. And we have to get back to a place where that conversation is possible, just like the conversation you and I are having over coffee right now.

SPEAKER_01 50:39

Last one. Um, is there anything that you wish people better understood about you, your intentions, or the reason why you're running? Sort of a last opportunity to talk to folks.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

I guess the thing that I I I want I think the thing that people don't always understand is that this isn't I I think far too often these days people view members of Congress, elected officials generally, but especially members of Congress, as almost like celebrities, like you're sort of buying into fame. Um I wish people understood, and this sounds like a campaign rhetoric, but it's really true. I wish people understood that I want this job because I want to do this job. I want to get my hands dirty metaphorically on making government better. Um I it's not like I don't want to, I don't want to, I I don't want to to to become a congressman so that I can say I'm a congressman. I want to do the job and I have to become a congressman to do it. That I that I want people to understand that when it's done right, politics in general, but especially service in Congress, is a job. It's hard work, and it's not just a golden ticket or um a path to fame that many people treat it like it is in many ways, and this will really sound like rhetoric, but it's true. I'm just a working stiff. You know, my my skill is being a policy woman, being a government guy. And I wish more people understood that I view this as a job interview rather than as a bid for fame.