#EP 16 - Bruno Vaccotti on What's Really Going on with Bitcoin Regulations in Paraguay and Freedom

In this episode of The Bitcoin Latam Report, I speak with Bruno Vaccotti, director of the Fintech Chamber in Paraguay, founder of the Paraguayan Bitcoin education initiative, entrepreneur, organizer of Acelerando Bitcoin, and one of the key voices pushing Bitcoin adoption in the country.

We discuss how Paraguay became a major Bitcoin mining hub, the government inefficiencies that keep slowing innovation, and the new regulatory push that threatens the industry. Bruno also explains why he is actively advocating for reasonable laws that actually make sense for Bitcoin, while building education, media, conferences, and financial products to help Paraguay move forward.

00:39 – Intro: Bruno Vaccotti and why Paraguay matters for Bitcoin
02:16 – How Bruno discovered Bitcoin and why it changed his life
05:03 – Education, free books, TV, and building Bitcoin awareness in Paraguay
07:27 – From education to mining: how surplus energy opened the door
09:50 – Why Paraguay became a serious player in global Bitcoin mining
12:11 – The energy case for Paraguay: Itaipú, hydro power, and national opportunity
15:53 – Paraguay as a destination for expats, builders, and freedom-minded entrepreneurs
20:03 – Why Paraguay still needs better Bitcoin products for everyday users
25:26 – The real problem: not explicit bans, but bureaucratic paralysis
30:29 – New Bitcoin regulations in Paraguay and why Bruno is sounding the alarm
34:45 – Privacy, self-custody, and why the proposed reporting rules make no sense
45:17 – Is the government hostile, or just completely misunderstanding Bitcoin?
50:04 – What Bruno is doing now to push back and improve the rules
56:59 – Acelerando Bitcoin: conference, residency, and Paraguay immersion week
59:13 – War, fiat money, Bitcoin, and why separating money from the state matters
01:06:45 – AI, energy limits, and why Bruno still thinks Bitcoin is the best long-term bet
01:18:49 – Final message: freedom, curiosity, and why more people should pay attention to Paraguay

Buy your tickets for Acelerando Bitcoin: acelerandobitcoin.com/ 
Follow Bruno on X: @peztresojos 

Follow Maciej Cepnik on X: @CepnikMaciej
Follow Aureo on X: @AureoBitcoin

Buy Bitcoin in Mexico: aureobitcoin.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Bitcoin Latine Report, where I interview entrepreneurs, Bitcoiners from all over Latin America in English. So everybody in the world can know what is happening here. So today I have uh the honor of interviewing Bruno Vacoti. He's a Bitcoiner, a local legend in Paraguay. He's the director of the FinTech Chamber, the director of uh Bitcoin mining chamber. Uh he runs meetups, he does uh a lot of stuff in Paraguay. Uh and recently there has been some uh bad news uh potentially uh for the whole industry there. So it's it's a pleasure to have you, Runo, so we can uh discuss uh the whole situation and you know what's coming next. So thank you for joining the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Thank you. Thanks to you, Masek. It's it's a pleasure for me because I I know Aureo. Uh I think the great place to get the Bitcoin adoption is Latin America. I appreciate what are you doing, uh spreading the voice out loud in English for all the world uh about the entrepreneurs in Latin America because uh I I get involved in in Bitcoin business for in the mining industry for four years, maybe five. And uh that what I see in in South America, it's the most promising place in the world for Bitcoin mining and also for Bitcoin adoption. Uh uh, it's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Perfect. Uh so you know, it's a little bit uh cliche way to start a Bitcoin podcast. But for the people that don't know you, maybe you can just give a little background like how you started being a Bitcoiner, what's your involvement in Paraguay as a Bitcoin leader, um, and you know, just a little bit the background story of also why mining, specifically in Paraguay, uh, is a really important industry that has the potential to grow a way more.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

And actually, this part of the story, it's kind of fun because I'm not that smart. You know, uh I found Bitcoin. Bitcoin found me on 2017. I I remember I bought uh my first Satoshi's in in Guaranies with a credit card in an exchange, centralized exchange. I bought maybe six dollars at that time, and just let keep sleeping. Maybe one year later, uh or two, one and a half years later, one friend of mine needs to pay me something. And he said, Hey, I can send you dollars or Bitcoin, because he was on the stage at that time. And do you want Bitcoin or do you want dollars? And I want to to sound uh techy, and I said, Hey, yes, Bitcoin is fine. At that time, I I discovered that was uh very interesting money because when you spend$10,$20 in Satoshis, um it's very easy to don't take care about them if you didn't know about Bitcoin. You know, nobody wants to lose money, but it's easier to lose$20 or then more money. Um but the I received this transaction, I said, hey man, I need to understand this thing. And I start my journey learning Bitcoin in different ways. Um I get uh on the past, I get involved in financial education. And when I start understanding Bitcoin, it blows my mind. Uh I change all in my life. I change what I am doing for a living, I change uh I sell to companies I are developing because I said, hey, I need to get in the past to focus uh all my time, almost all my time in Bitcoin because I think it's the best opportunity for humanity to change the rules of the game. Uh I think that day I became a Bitcoiner. I'm still on a on a learning path, you know, uh because uh nobody knows everything about Bitcoin. Uh I I and that's very exciting. I started teaching Bitcoin for uh developing meetups here in Paraguay. Also, we have the franchise, I don't know if franchise is the world, but of my primer Bitcoin from El Salvador. Right now we are we are developing a Bitcoin diploma in a university here. Uh, I start trying to start opening the doors uh at the beginning because nobody thinks anything or have an idea in the government in the universities. The people have no idea about Bitcoin in Paraguay. There's not a lot of mainstream about that uh at that time. Uh I I wrote three books uh for free. Uh I it's distributed for free. Uh I spent maybe a bunch of satoshis uh printing 3,000 books. Uh and also in there's it uh on the web uh for free, for download for free. And also started two years ago uh a TV show about Bitcoin. And it's interesting because it's not a podcast, not a YouTube channel, it's a TV show actually on TV in Paraguay. And I think it's a very good way of evangelization because today, with this uh amazing race about the content, uh nobody enters uh to YouTube or uh looking, hey, just show me something. People are looking micro content, you know, and the micro content is very specified. For somebody in South America, um, I think in all around the world who doesn't care about Bitcoin, it's very difficult to just jump into the Bitcoin world. And the TV allows you to do that because a lot of people in the streets two two years later saying, Hey, you are the Bitcoin guy, because they are looking at the TV and some guy appears talking about Bitcoin. Uh, I think it's a very good uh way to orange-peel the people. The product, the the the TV show is called Voltage. I I can share you the uh our links later. But yes, I I think that's that's the way. And also in in the meantime, as I said at the beginning, uh I tried to move all my life uh to the Bitcoin path. I met some guys uh five years ago from there from they were from Germany. They taught me about to use the energy in Paraguay to transform that energy into human potential. We start with the Penguin Academy. It's uh Academy for coding and for AI, for all the thought, boot camps and for people with low income here in Paraguay. We train almost 3,000 kids and adults, obviously, in the last four years. And uh with that uh academy, we need we have the the need to create a business that finance the the academy. And at that time, one one of these guys said, hey, we can use the energy uh to mine Bitcoin, and with Bitcoin we can uh just pay the bills for from the academy. Um we started a very, very amazing path. Now I I'm still uh investor. I was of the first first day believer of penguin. I love Penguin, it's it's uh a great school of thought. Uh but now I'm developing financial products or trying to uh developing financial products here in Paraguay about Bitcoin. Uh, because I think the next step of adoption here is to have more products uh on the uh on the day by day for Paraguayans, not only for expats or for people who are already bitcoiners. I I need to Bitcoin be easy for the people that doesn't understand Bitcoin. Because if you start the sometimes the Bitcoiners, we have this problem. Hey man, it's very easy. You have uh for uh 24 uh words, uh passphrase, there's uh Harold wallet and Satoshi, it's great, uh blah blah blah. And people don't get it at the first time, you know. And I I think we need to to close it put Bitcoin closer to the people. And that's my my my main KPI today, uh, through the TV show. Uh last year I I organized the first Bitcoin-only conference in Paraguay. It's called Acelerando Bitcoin. The result was amazing because we gathered uh 600 people, 120 people from outside Paraguay, and nobody expects anything about Paraguay because Paraguay has no uh we are landlord, uh, we have no gold, no gas, no anything, no diamonds. I don't know. It's not an attractive country on the first side. But uh when we start this uh Bitcoin mining here, our companies uh saw us, and now we have one gigawatt in all Paraguay for Bitcoin mining. We are the the fourth place in the world with more hash rate, and that puts Paraguay in a very interesting spot for Bitcoiners, for the industry, and for uh obviously for the protocol.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Yeah, I think from all the guests that I invited, uh, you'll probably have the description uh in YouTube, the the the the largest one with a bunch of links because you're doing so many stuff. Uh it's it's crazy that you started first the educational initiative, but then you needed to finance it. So that's why you got interested uh in mining. And you may you you mentioned uh that uh the investors, well, the people that came to help you do it starting all the mining operation, they were from Germany. And as you said, uh also probably uh most of the people don't even know where to put Paraguay on the map, right? It's not a country you hear a lot about. So, what did they see in Paraguay that made them uh you know bullish on why they should start such a big mining operation there? Uh is there like specific resources or uh uh a specific um uh like legal setup that that made it easy in the beginning? Like what why why was it so attractive in the beginning?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Uh we have very good steak. I don't know why, but Bitcoiners love steak. Um the the best meat in the world is in Paraguay. You are very well invited to my barbecue. I I love to cook in a cooker. My my first passion is to cook. My second passion is Bitcoin. I I have a lot of of uh Bitcoin asados here in Paraguay with some friends from all around the world. The thing that makes Paraguay interesting in a way, it's the available energy. Because we have a clean matrix, clean energy matrix. The 100% of the uh energy in the country is it's uh green from renewable uh hydro. And also there's a political situation, interesting political situation, because the Itaipul dam is one of the world's most uh powerful dams. It's it's with uh Brazil. We are both the it's half Brazilian, half Paraguayan. And Paraguay doesn't have the the capability to use all that energy for 60 years. And now with Bitcoin mining, paraguay can use their energy actually to develop the country. Because the problem on the past was we need to sell uh to Brazil at pennies because we undersell the the energy just as a gift to Brazil, and now with these uh kind of industries, Paraguay can uh use their energy to develop the country, to develop uh education, to develop infrastructure, a lot of things, and to put Paraguay in the map, you know, because now Paraguay is a player. In Bitcoin matters, Paraguay it's uh uh it's top 10 because we are for incarcerate. We need to develop another thing. That's the reason I I'm moving to other things right now, as Satoshi said, but I'm moving to other things to financial products for for people uh and um and know more about Bitcoin working in public policies and a lot of stuff. And that situation of available energy, uh it's not the cheapest energy in the world, that's a lie, because you have Ethiopia and other places, but it's available energy. If you have a bunch of money, if you want to put one gigawatt of Bitcoin mining tomorrow in Paraguay, you can do it. And there's no another place in the world you can do that because we still have available energy from Iteputan. And that's one of my uh regular conversations with the government. Hey, please let's stop selling Brazil. We can use the energy here and develop the country, uh, create tech jobs, create more infrastructure, uh, be ready for the this AI bubble. And yes, it make Paraguay a great country for development.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah, I think also another point that uh I would like to ask you is really you in the last five, ten years, the subject of finding uh you know great countries for tax reasons. Obviously, Bitcoiners are the kind of people that are looking for to optimize uh their lifestyle. So uh Paraguay has been also really popular for expats and people from you know Europe, uh, Canada. I even have a really good friend, you probably know him. I don't want to name him on uh if he's from New Zealand and he spends like half of his time in Mexico and the other time, half of this his time in Paraguay. So have you seen also this influx of Bitcoiners but also uh immigrants from these kind of countries? Uh do you do you see it as a positive thing, or do you think they they exploit, you know, they exploit the system? What's your opinion on this?

SPEAKER_01 14:16

I think there's no borders anymore. We are citizens of the war. Uh I'm here because I have my roots here. When I was young, younger, I live in other countries, but I think Paraguay, I I choose Paraguay twice because I was in other countries earning a bunch of money with our investment, blah, blah, blah. I choose Paraguay twice. And I family here because I think Paraguay is a land of opportunities. Because there's a lot. I I I love to work. Uh it's I I think that's that's a problem because some people love to just chill in. I love to work, and if you want to work and to develop something greater greater than you, uh Paraguay is the best spot in the world. Because uh, as I said, we are landlord, uh no gold, no petrol, no gas. You are by by your own, but nobody bothers you. It's a very free country, very uh private, friendly country, in sort of in several ways, not in all the ways, because now we we have new shitty regulations, but we are we are working so hard to to solve this. But I I I think Paraguay is a huge spot if you uh want to take care of your of your of your sets because it's very I don't I I don't will I don't like to say cheap. It's not cheap, but it's you you you get what you pay. You know, you you can live very well here in Paraguay, uh eating good restaurants, live in uh in a nice neighborhood, uh all the things you need to uh be happy uh for for uh uh a very convincing price. And I I I think uh people here, uh people here, actually I I'm Uruguayan, all my family is from Uruguay, uh I'm I live in Uruguay part of my life. And I think Paraguay is a very friendly country for for me for migrants. It's uh it's a very, as I said, a very free, safe, and I think there's opportunity to to everybody. You know, if you want to work and if you want to develop in the right path, uh there's there's a country who wants to adopt you as your new country. But my my my main my main uh chakra here is there's no borders anymore. I I don't care where you where are you born. Uh if if you want to do something good, uh you are welcome. Uh I don't care about your business, I don't care about your past, I don't care about your foot future. I I I care you about uh about your dreams, and if your dreams uh make my country uh better for for all the people, uh you are welcome.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

I think that's the great attitude in general, right? I I also believe you know the people, as you said, if you you have the right intention and you will contribute positively to the country, that you know uh every every country should take advantage of people wanting to move in um to a certain degree. Uh before we start with like the controversy and all the shitty regulation, as you said, uh just want to uh ask a little bit more details about you're saying you want to build financial products in Paraguay, because I imagine I can imagine that the expats living there, they probably have uh you know a wise account or Revolute and they're using that to pay. Uh, but you're saying there's like uh missing tools for can you uh expand a little bit on this? Like what's missing? Uh is it like good uh on and off ramps? Is it banking infrastructure? What is missing in general?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

The the thing is, uh as I said, yeah, I'm not lying, I'm not that smart. Um, maybe there's a lot of products that Bitcoiners like you and me will use in the future that today doesn't exist. I'm not in that that way. I'm in the way of the lesson one, you know. The first product I I'm trying to I am fighting with a bank here, it's to establish a Bitcoin trust. Why? Because it's it's a product that you didn't want to be part of Bitcoin Trust, of course, as a Bitcoiner. I I don't want it. But it's very good. I I talk with several people here, um, and people here uh the the conventional investor needs that security that banks bring to them. And a trust is the most simple product I can work with a bank to the people has the Bitcoin experience with with a uh uh uh vacant uh organization. You know, I need a bank to open a trust and people can buy Bitcoin to the trust and be the owners of that part of the trust. Uh simple as fuck. Sorry about my French. Uh but I I need that kind of products for people who are in the 1% of the 1% in Paraguay who has very they are very influential in public policies who are very influential. Um some of them are politicians. I need uh to Paraguay to keep being great for Bitcoin. And that's my my hurry to develop these products. And a disclaimer, there's no money in these products. There's not profitable to have a Bitcoin trust. It's only because we need it. We need it as a Paraguayans to develop products for Paraguayans, products like get Bitcoin closer to the people. As I said, there's there's no reason for all the people to be a cyberpunk or or be a tech guy or or be a math expert that uh understands Bitcoin in the uh in a row. You know, um I'm looking for this kind of very simple products to people understand Bitcoin. And also, on the other hand, uh I think it's one of the only it's the only country in South America I think uh you can just swapping Bitcoin in uh in uh uh with your cell phone in a platform, uh Bitcoin to Guaranias, you know, to our local money, that kind of off-ramping. Uh there's no off-ramping in Paraguay. You should go to uh exchange, uh regulated or make peer-to-peer. But peer-to-peer for people who are not in Bitcoin is the most uh uh weird thing in the world, you know. Hey, uh there's this guy, I I I can say uh his name because he loves privacy, blah blah blah. Sounds like a scam, man. Well, for us, it's very common. But uh it's it's the same way where when you go to the to the Bitcoin meetups and see these guys with masks say, hey, hey, maybe he's uh uh uh a robber, and that's the reason he he used a mask. Oh but when you uh you you understand the privacy, Julian Assange, a lot of things, and you say, Hey, that guy is a smart guy, not a crazy, not a robber, it's a smart guy. You know, and that that's the reason. Start with very, very simple products for people understand big.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Nice. Uh but where you you say there is no easy off rams, or or Louis, I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

There's no there's no um bank app or or a change in Paraguay. You can swap Bitcoin to Guaranias, to the local money. Because uh, I think here in Brahway, it if we our our our money it's very strange. The Waranese. It's a strength coin, a shit coin from a bank. For that reason, and maybe for other reasons, maybe less than the 10% of the Paraguayans has a dollar account. That's huge, man, because in all the country, people have dollar account and their local money account. But the less than 10% of Paraguayans has a dollar account. That's the reason we need Bitcoin to Guaranias, not Bitcoin to USDT or blah blah blah. That product is amazing, but I need something easier.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

But okay, so let's suppose uh somebody would like to uh you know uh take the opportunity of creating a solution like this. Maybe uh let's suppose our will be that solution. Uh what what does it take? Like uh if a company wants to open officially in uh what are the compliance uh requirements? Well, not only us, but maybe somebody is already there and he sees the opportunity. So why why nobody has done it yet?

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Man, that's that's the part of that's the funny part of Latin America. There's no law saying you can't do that, there's no regulation saying you can't do that. That there's anything that doesn't allow you to do that tomorrow. But that didn't happen. I I I went to a bunch of re of meetings because for for my for my perspective, I I don't want to create a new company and be your your your rival tomorrow. No, if you want I I I I I can try as I try with other companies from some friends to bring your company here, but the the the the problem is you go to the third or fourth meeting with the government, with the regulators, and they just stay silent. You know, there's no answer. They're still waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, and you never get an answer. It's insane. Uh with uh uh a funny history when I I work in education programs, not in Bitcoin, in financial education programs in the in the public system in Paraguay with a non-profit. I need to try uh in one situation, I need to present 17 times the same no asking for something. 17 times. Like it's it's like to it's like running a marathon, you know. Uh you need to have just resilience and keep going, keep going, keep going because it's it's a it's a long sprint. Short qu short answer anything uh uh anything it's uh forbidden to to start aureo tomorrow in Paraguay, but it's very difficult to have the the final stamp to say yes, you can open. And it's very frustrating, but I'm working so hard, dedicating a lot of hours of of my week to trying to do that.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, and uh I think also the banking system in in general, it's maybe it's not that great because here in Mexico, uh it's a similar situation in terms of you know time of approval and everything. I I guess it's a little bit better than Paraguay. Uh, but you still uh the biggest hurdle and the biggest problems is always with the government, the time it takes for a license to be accepted. Uh, you know, that's the uh I think uh just to register our company, I had to come back three, four times to the to the authority to, you know, so see so they approve it and design it. It's really annoying. It slows down uh innovation, it it destroys company because you know you can spend uh a bunch of money, you know, just trying to start. So that's really bad. But uh, at least here in Mexico, um there is a little bit of infrastructure, you know, Bitcoin, crypto infrastructure, you know, people can use to start building products. And also the banking system, there's a system called SPAY, which lets uh transfer uh from one Mexican bank account to another instantly and without any fee. And this is like an interbanking system, uh, and you get like a seal of uh uh approval or seal of transactions directly from the central banks of Mexico. So is that something that also exists in Paraguay? Like in Brazil, there is PICS, but is there like a system similar that would make it easy to kind of make a bridge between Bitcoin and the Fiat system, or that's also a problem?

SPEAKER_01 26:38

I'm toxic Bitcoiner, I'm a maximalist, uh I'm not a shit coiner, but I I understand sometimes we need uh bridges to the people. Uh for me, USDT is a great uh asset. Uh people say no, that's shitcoin. Okay, but USDT allows millions of people to get into Bitcoin. Uh it's as I said, it's a bridge, and all the bridges are my friends in a way. That's the reason that PIX, for me, it's amazing. Uh uh almost uh hack to the system because for uh PIX is part of the government too. It's private investment, but also the the government. Um in Argentina, there's Ars, it's the Argentinian Pix. Um, for sure I want uh uh Paraguayan Pigs too. There, there's we can use uh the funny situation is we can use peaks in Paraguay in also, but the the Brazilian one. We need uh Paraguayan one.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Uh the the goal was not to open a new business, but maybe uh uh after the podcast we can talk more. So let's get to the the the the sub the principal subject. You know, there's some new rules, and to be honest, I haven't looked in details, but uh I've seen a lot of noise about uh you know the Bitcoin dream in Paraguay is uh compromised, uh, you know, a lot of stuff happening. And I I know how frustrating it can be because I don't know if you know about what happened in Quebec uh in Canada, like a few years ago. We we started the same founders of Aureo a few years ago. We opened a mining farm when in 2017, you know, pretty small. We had maybe 100 machine S9s at that time. So and uh we got cut short in our expansion, in our company completely because the Quebec government started a moratorium and they said, okay, we're gonna put a stop to the whole industry. Uh the miners are gonna steal all of our electricity, you know, something that doesn't make any sense. The people are gonna freeze in the winter because the miners are gonna use all the electricity. So for two years, it had like there was like a moratorium, even two years and a half. So basically, because of that, all the miners, uh I'm pretty sure there's still miners in Quebec, like really you probably know more, but it definitely not the El Dorado of what it could have been. And I think because of what happened at that time, and they came up with uh stupid rules only to allow 350 megawatts, which is you know uh a little bit, but not that much in if you look at the mining industry as a whole. Something similar happened in Paraguay. Like, can you well just talk? And you know, if you you can be mad about the government, no problem.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah, no, the the situation in Canada was very cheaty. Yeah, it's a mess because the the that part of Calgary, yeah, uh Canada has a bunch of gas and nobody is using it because there's very it's very cold. It's amazing because Bitcoin mining needs two things uh refrigeration and energy. And I think one of the best places, one of the best spots in the world to use uh resources to transform that in uh electric money, it's it's Canada. Uh there's a very huge company here, a Canadian company, hype uh technologies. They are they are mining 380 megawatts. And one of the reasons it's Canada, it's it's messy, right? Um yes, about the regulation. Uh as I said here earlier, parallel it's a very free and very secure. I think that's not because the government takes decisions on that, because I I think it's a great country by omission. Uh things just happen, you know. Uh there's uh a lot of lagoons or non-exist uh regulations that allows us to be in a free country. When the politicians smell they can sound smart and charge money for the people, uh illegally, illegally, in this case, it's totally illegally, they just uh put on a letter, you know, and some club uh and now we have this shitty regulation. Uh the the the past uh two weeks was the most stressful weeks in several years. And imagine, uh, as a miner, the government raised the price three times in four years, in three years. Uh, the business goes very bad, and I didn't get that stress uh like this time because people from Australia, I I am 10 misses called from people all around the world calling me, uh people that I didn't know and say, hey, what happened with Parraway, blah blah blah. Because there's obviously there's a lot of uh expats, maybe 150 per year, and we know a great part of that expat are people uh from the Bitcoin ecosystem, you know. And these kind of things are very bad signals about the freedom in Paraguay because this is this is a panoptic uh regulation, very stupid, illegally, as I said. I I explained to the government actually today I have a two hour uh meeting with the government. Last week I I was with six hours with 12 managers from the uh tax uh office. I spent a lot of time uh trying to people from the government understand they are killing the window of opportunity that Bitcoin brings to Paraguay because there's no at the first time I what why I I said it's illegal, because part of this resolution, it's called Resolution 47. Your your the people who are listening to us, they can just search resolution 47 Paraguay, and it's it's amazing because they want to regulate the techs, the decentralized exchange. Um and I explained to the guys it's very difficult to call a guy called Satoshi and say, hey Satoshi, uh Paraguay needs you to change the protocol, you know. It's it's ridiculous. They they didn't get it, you know, because in our hand, uh in El Salvador, for example, I've been in El Salvador several times, I have very good friends over there, it's a nice country to visit. Um El Salvador, there's already taxes for the business, uh business who works with Bitcoin. I'm good with that. Uh if you have a audio, it's audio is in Paraguay, uh we can uh aureo, sorry, uh we can uh off-ramp or some of this. Yes, we need to pay taxes. It's it's part of the of the game, you know. But you as a uh as a bitcoiner, there's no reason to expose you because privacy is one of the first things that I most uh uh are are are commit with Bitcoin, you know. Some cyberpunk friend, I didn't I didn't know his real name, uh and we were friends for five years. Uh asked me maybe two weeks ago, hey, if you know all you know until now about Bitcoin from the first day. You you get disposed with this TV, talking with the government, blah, blah, blah. And I said, um, yes, because somebody needs to do that, you know. Um, yes, maybe it's an obsect, complicated obsek, but uh I don't want all the people with Bitcoin, or actually me with my satoshis to get exposed to criminals. As the same case from from France, um in in developed countries, it's very easy to get information. There's no there's no privacy. When you get uh there's privacy uh if you if if you know how to move in the wave, but if if you get your information to a third party, you are exposed, you know. And uh I need to spend a lot of hours uh talking with the people saying, hey, this it's it's not about evasion, it's not about hey, we want to live in zero taxes. No, um we want to be the feel uh and be safe with our families, and it's very difficult because there are some uh very nerd and humble guys who 70 years ago was mining with uh uh a GPU and now maybe they have 100 million dollars or more. I they I I they want to live like like uh uh stay how how do you say Stefan uh looking poor? You know, they they want to be under the radar, and it's very stupid to a guy who takes care of their privacy for 17 years now. Hey no, you need to uh bring me your wallet uh and your pin. It's ridiculous. You know, it's it's very tough for me because do they actually ask that?

SPEAKER_00 36:04

They ask you the wallet.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

I'm exaggerating, but but they are asking is they you need to um self-report every transaction, um your your your name, your wallet, the hash, and also the name of the person uh who receives the funds. You know, uh everything is shitty, you know. Uh I I I I I explained because maybe you you you owe me uh$10 and you say, hey Bruno, just send me your wallet, and if you I receive$10, you know, but nobody knows. Uh I even I didn't know if if your wallet, you know, maybe it's your girlfriend's wallet, your your uh sister's wallet, your brother's wallet, and you say, hey, please send 10 bucks to this guy, you know? That's part of the privacy. Maybe it's it's not your wallet, and you cancellate your your your dev with me, but not with your wallet. And it's impossible to know that because there's no no uh uh audit saying, oh yes, this is your wallet. Okay, and the government asks for that, for example. That's not only illegally, it's stupid. And I I think in in in one way, in in the Paraguayan way, I had here my a treasure wallet. If the government audits me, I can say, hey, this is my wallet. Um, yes, I can open it, yes. I have only$10 in Satoshi's. How how they get it, uh, I'm I'm saying the the truth, you know. Uh, and this is this is very particular in the Latin American mindset because we uh we are very resilient people because Latin America on the past uh and some countries still uh are very uh it's very tough.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

You know, if you if you went to Tepito, uh Tepito is well now a part of Tepito is getting gentrified uh slowly. Uh you can go drink uh deers there on Sundays, no problem.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

I I I love I love the phrase. I I I've been in Tepito three times. Uh there's a phrase in Spanish say uh tepito existe porque resiste. And maybe it's we need to take care of the people to get tepito and uh improve their conditions of lives instead of having fear about them, you know, uh because there's beautiful people. Oh obviously, because you you have white-collar criminals and you have those criminals who get in in motos and steal your cell phone. Who is more harmful for the society? The white collars, you know, and Bitcoiners are not white-collar. We are people who love just love privacy and want to keep staking sets and um uh uh um figure out how we can rebuild the world separating money from state. That's the main situation here because the state is broken, and because the state is are broken, uh the money is broken too. And I think it's it's it's not something that Satoshi creates. It's the the the the the Austrian economic uh school, you know, the the most smarter school where the capitalist uses you can use the capitalists as an engine of develop the country and the entrepreneurial spirit. And now I uh I just lunch with with some friends from from Europe and said, hey, there's in my family there's no entrepreneurs. Because uh it's very difficult in Germany to start a business and blah blah blah. And I said, hey, there's no people in my family, there's no an entrepreneur, you know, and it's not because hey, we raise with uh we we have a company uh or something like that. No, because for resist and for keep resisting, we we we we develop this this this entrepreneurial spirit. It's from the need, it's not from the abundancy, it's from the needs we start being entrepreneurs times we we were dumb, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Yeah, no, it's uh you know, I I admire your your battle. Like it's the same here in Mexico, like 50% are uh outside of the uh the formal uh you know tax system and everything. Because imagine if you need to pay three thousand dollars to open a company uh to have a tackle stand or whatever. It doesn't, it just doesn't make sense, right? Uh the governments, you know, they pretend they want to help by saying, Oh, we need to put these new rules to protect you, but in the end, the the rules will be respected by the good people that are not criminals, but the criminals will not respect the rules anyway. Uh you just made life harder and more difficult to to the regular people, which is 99% of the the people in every country. Uh, but for the criminals, you you know, they don't they don't care.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

They will just respect criminals has other stuff and other ways to do the things. But uh the what governments are doing are i I I call it uh fish in barrel, you know. It's very easy if you have 10 fish using a barrel and say, hey, now I fish, you know, it's taking more money than the people already paying you, you know. It's very stupid. Darwin, it's uh it's just jumping in their thumb, girl.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Uh but uh I'm curious, you know, maybe they put this law sometimes they they don't know exactly what they're doing, so you know it's all bureaucrats, and somebody says, like, hey, you have to do this law about Bitcoin. So they don't maybe maybe don't even care about it really. So what's what's the approach with the discussions you had so far? Is it like more uh hostile or is it just like we don't understand nothing? We we we tried something, but we don't understand like what impression of the conversations you had so far?

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Uh I I think far away is not the the approach in this case is not hostile, it's uh it's about uh I don't know, a self-create metaphor from the government saying, hey, uh people from mining business, they are all billionaires because it's very profitable. Now Bitcoin mining is dying as a business, not because at the last Satoshi we have we have 114 years to get mined, but uh Bitcoin mining as a private business, it's dying because it's not profitable anymore. Because of the rising of prices of the taxes we are charging to the miners. Um last year when they raised the price again, uh I thought with the government, hey, this is this is shitty, man, because people started uh just left in Paraguay because it's not uh profitable anymore. And they say, no, I I didn't get it because uh you're you are powerful people. That's not right. And this year, what happened with that? 42% of the contracts get cancelled, 42% in six months. And uh and I think they're going, hey man, it's too late. But now we have opportunity to change this shitty regulation. We can regulate something, we can regulate the business who works with Bitcoin, we can regulate uh maybe if you want to uh put 10 million dollars in real estate in Paraguay from nothing, what they say uh where we talk about Bitcoin, we can do our due diligence with AML or something like that for huge investments, but no to the Bitcoiner who wants to drink a beer in a bar and pay with Satoshis. That's very ridiculous. And it's uh a test for all the people in Paraguay because when a uh a migrant came to Paraguay, uh it's it's not a uh It's not a low income migration. It's a well-being migration. It's different because when you arrive here, you want to rent an apartment, you want services. There's a lot of people, the maids, you want to eat in good places. You are paying for services. It's not you are living in a mountain in Paraguay. There's no mountains in Paraguay, but you're living like by your own, doing your own energy, doing your own things in a mountain. No, you are you are consuming, you are spending money, and you are injecting this money into the system. And for me, it's great. I love expats. I uh we organize events for expats every month, you know, because I'm very proud. I prefer to work all with grassroots with people in Paraguay who need opportunities. And I I I think Bitcoin is the opportunity for these people. But we also love the to to do things with with all the community because as I said at the beginning, uh there's no borders anymore. And I think we are all worldwide citizens. Uh it's it's just a situation right now. I'm in Paraguay, you know. Yeah, you are in Mexico, but that can could change tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

No, I I believe the same. It's like, okay, let's let's find a good deal. Like, you know, we're ready to pay something, but then if you you try to take too much, then you just leave, right? Uh it's it's happening all over the world. Uh, countries that are taxing too much their citizens, and especially if if the citizens are not feeling that they're receiving the the right amount or the the right quality of services for what they're paying for, or they just go where uh do are you optimistic for some sort of resolution or some sort of tone toning down the the the regulations they try to implement? Or yeah, uh what what what what's your plan uh like for the next weeks and months?

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Yes, we are working with two law firms, we are working with with the people and I think here in Paraguay, it's uh you you can talk with the government. Obviously, not you are not always listening, but but you you can you can have uh a one-to-one uh talk. It's not bureaucratic. You can go to the office and talk with with the people. Uh it's very open and they they ask for help. They ask for for help several times. Uh we we offer our time because this is uh uh obviously a not pay work, because uh as I said, when I spend 20 hours in a week uh talking with people in the government, uh I lose 20 hours uh of my production, of my other things that brings me money, you know. But I think it's uh it's uh it's uh a nice position of the Bitcoin community because it's not only uh uh uh to invest time for creating uh conditions for people in Paraguay as uh uh a nice regulation um between us of the record. Uh I don't need to accomplish this regulation because I have other business in Paraguay. Uh I my my my whole strategy with Bitcoin is ODL. Do anything more than ODU. Uh I spend some sets in our meetups, uh in the conference, but but I I my my I'm not a trader that in in a way. Not in a way, I'm not a trader. I can't no not say to the government anything. Hey, I I I I love to talk about Bitcoin, but I have no Bitcoin. I have no Satoshi because uh I don't know. Uh uh accident a boat accident or something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

But um I I think it's very it's very well you you cannot you cannot uh since Paraguay is a landline uh landlocked country, we have you meet to fight on our DHTs.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Uh I'll we we have trained here. Uh on the other hand, I I I'm feel I feel bad because people from Europe, people with other mindset, they said, hey, I don't want to uh just go to the other for the other part. They want to accomplish the law, and I'm fine with that. I understand very well because in their countries the system works and it's fine to pay it almost in all countries, but uh they they don't want they don't want this kind of law that like sounds dictatorships or um micromanagement of your bill wing. I nobody wants the the the living goes uh unsupportable because we need to stay uh just putting on a paper every transaction or everything. I think people want to be more light, you know, and and that's the reason I get I get uh very uh uh emotional about this because I want people to keep uh coming to Paraguay because uh I we need more allies to to make this country great. You know, if if right now the government presents him uh itself as uh uh a very um not friendly for migrants, not friendly for Bitcoin, uh Paraguay lose. The only place we who will lose is Paraguay. No, not not the expat, not the migrants, not the companies. The loser in this game will be Paraguay and the Paraguayans. And I don't want that. Because you have Panama, you have uh El Salvador, I don't know, or places, but uh Paraguay is not the only country to lead, you know. But if you we start we still creating these shitty regulations, uh maybe maybe I move to Paraguay also. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

No, I understand. I wish you the best of luck with that battle. And you know, as you said, like uh you might not need to these laws to be revoked, you can change place, but because you're passionate and you're a humanist and you want you know good for your good things happening for your country, that's why you're fighting. So that's really admirable, and I hope uh it will work out. And I hope some people uh in the government will understand you. Like, how do you even explain Lightning Network? You know, that it's not even on chain.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Amazing. No, no, and it's it's it's weird because all the the the questions are very, very complicated questions. Hey, if I sell uh uh confiscated uh gun, it's trazzable through the blockchain, and I say, hey man, it's not good to sell confiscable guns. Yeah, you can buy an ice cream, not uh something more more simple, not guns or something like that. You know, uh I think there's there's a uh uh a huge uh movie in their heads, you know. They they think we are, I don't know, just learned fat guys with uh with a computer.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Yeah, great. Well, I I believe you you're gonna make it and you're gonna fight it. So uh you know, I hope uh this podcast people will understand that this is not a lost battle, it's just a battle, and uh battles will always happen, especially with governments, because that's what they do. They don't create, they don't uh they don't create value, they only destroy value, they only slow value in general. Uh this is generally what people uh do in governments. Uh, but maybe you can talk a little bit more about the conference that is coming. I see it it's in August, uh 12th and 13th August. So uh um what what are the plans for this? Uh who should uh come visit?

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Hey, uh it's amazing because we we learned a lot the last year with the conference. And for this year, we offer to the people from outside Paraguay uh not only a conference, a whole sovereign experience. Because we start with two days of of conference, uh 12th and 13th August. Uh very nice conference. And then we have two days for people who want to get their residence in Paraguay to be Paraguay fiscal tax. Uh also if you want to open a bank account um for different reasons, it's very good that. And also, if you want to invest in real estate, if you want to invest in cattle, if you want to invest in energy, we present all the people uh in law firms. We we have workshops outside the conference. Workshops explain how the taxation works in Paraguay. It's a uh immersion week in Paraguay. If you want to be Paraguayan and to have your flag here, uh Paraguay is still being very friendly for expenses, because you to be Paraguayan, you only need uh be one day a year here, not like other countries, you need to spend six months in the country. Obviously, for me, I always recommend to move to Paraguay almost three months a year because it's it's nice, a nice country. Uh but for for for residence matters, uh for tax matters, I think it's it's still uh uh a good place, a good spot to be. And that's the reason we offer a Bitcoin only uh Monday and Thursday, and the rest of the week we offer uh we offer a residence, a sovereign experience for people who want to be more free and be more safe in the heart of South America. And we offer we you can buy the ticket of the conference and or you can buy the whole the the the the whole the the whole experience and fun fact of that it's the government is helping us to do this. Uh and that that's that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Uh I had a more like general questions. You know, what what do you think about uh the current uh Iran uh war and everything, and more specifically, like the impact on the energy markets, because uh, you know, we we don't know exactly what's happening there. Uh so there's like some productions of oil, of gas being destroyed. It affects the supply and the whole. You know, uh, do you have any opinion on how we can affect uh the mining industry, maybe not specifically to Paraguay, but in general?

SPEAKER_01 54:31

There's no holy war. Every war has their situations, are their their objectives, and every war is about money and is about power. When you have a broken system, when you have a uh printer that you can create money from thin air, you need excuses to uh to to to keep printing and to make the people pay for that print. And also our powerful thing, it's the fear. I I think these these all these miles are uh just occurring because the people when the people have fear, it's more easy they get uh into the boats, you know. And I think it's it's uh a powerful fight, not not only about not only about energy, not only about uh the transactional channels, not only about bombs. It's only about the money print. That's the reason I I love Bitcoin, because I I'm not I'm not uh uh uh hippie guy. I if you need to go to war, just take a gun and go to war. But uh you need to democratize and to decentralize the decision of the war, because uh the the states, the country just go to the war without asking the people who is paying for the war, because uh we are paying for for the war. The price of petrol, right now we are paying the war for with that. And Bitcoin makes the the the war unforwardable, you know, because if if we ask all the Bitcoiners by running nodes, hey, do you want war and pay uh the transaction fee for the war? People will say, hey, just fuck off. No. And if you democratize the decision of the war, I I I didn't say hey, there's no wars anymore. If you need war, let's go to the war. But they can't still create something like war. Because I I think there's a lot of people suffering, but there's not war, it's a political and a money and a power war. It's not in the fields, it's upside. And Bitcoin solves this.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

That's true. That's why it will be really there will be battles like this for a really, really long time. Because if you remove the the main power of you know what they have, the money printer, well, then you know they cannot make money anymore, they cannot do the war. So that's why it's gonna be a constant battle. It's inevitable, uh, it's gonna be hard. You know, really inspiring, inspiring to talk to you. Uh, you know, it's uh it's a great reminder. There is regulations, there's everything, that this is normal, but we have uh like a bigger mission uh behind uh all of this.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

Yes, it's a it's uh I think uh I I always say that being Latin American, it's the chaos, it's our comfort zone. It's nice to have this kind of chaos. Uh talking about the regulation, not about the war. It's it's nice to have this kind of chaos because make us more creative, make us more resilient, make us more uh wider, and also uh open our arms to to hug people, not to kill them. In some parts of the world now, people are opening their their their arms to kill people. Um, bitcoin always opens their arms to receive more friends, to receive more opportunities, and to receive more uh more um will-being for all the people all around. Because we can be uh pure ego people and just stack our thoughts and get uh silence about Bitcoin because it's our secret and my precious like uh a hobby thing, you know. But no, I I think we we choose the the the way of spreading the word to get more people into the Bitcoin uh life. And I think it's a it's a nice mission. Uh I sometimes I'm tired, sometimes I want to be with my family, sometimes I want to grab a beer, and we are talking about Bitcoin. You know, it's nice because it's a a live mission. I the typical the typical job interview uh question. How do you see in 10 years? Hey, hey, I see me, uh I see myself in 30 years talking about Bitcoin to my my granddaughter. You know, hey grandpa, what is Bitcoin? Uh obviously I think she will know because Bitcoin will be the money in 30 years, for sure. But yes, talking about, hey, I bought Bitcoin from last uh that's 100k. No way, grandpa. Uh you're lying, grandpa, you know. Um yes, I I think it's it's a night story to to tell to our granddaughters because Bitcoin is about it's about to build an empire for the next generation, not this generation. We can stay uh stay fun and staying poor, but I think it's to transform the mindset for the next generation, to transform the way they see the money for the next generation. Because we already know uh we are already born uh almost broke and we are trying to fix us. But but yeah, I think the next generation have hope to transform this situation. Uh war with the money, separate uh uh the money from the state. Uh the peace, it's an option and it's adoption because when you uh are um equitative with other people, there's no reason to fight. You know, Bitcoin is equitative. You you can have uh 100 Bitcoin, I can have 100 Satoshis, but we have the same rules. It's not the rules for who has more staking or the rules for for the who has less. No, Bitcoin is the most democratic and the most powerful money in the world, and the money changed everything. And that's the reason we through money and through solid electric money, we can change the world at a hundred percent. I'm very, very commit with that uh because I trust in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:47

Just curious, how uh what do you think about uh you know the AI revolution? Is it uh just a bubble? Is it also gonna transform uh our lives for the better? Uh, how is it related to to Bitcoin? Uh, is there any relationship?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:02

Uh I'm I'm very happy with because I'm in uh in a love situation with Claude and with all these things. I I started maybe three weeks ago uh uh a place called Diario Satoshi. It's uh only Bitcoin news uh in Spanish, in in very uh pleb language, easy to understand, and it's all automatized, you know. Uh for for us, for for Bitcoiners, it's uh a great opportunity to start to keep moving in into products for the people, you know. And now I'm I'm working on a DCH tracker in simple things because I'm not that smart, but there's a lot of smart people who now have tools to keep developing things, and I think in in that in that in that part of the history, it's amazing. And in the other part of the history, AI is a huge bubble. I love AI, I invest in companies that use the AI, but it's a huge, a huge, a huge uh bubble. And why you are saying, why you trust in AI? No, I don't trust in in AI. I love AI, I use AI, but I don't trust in AI. And because there's no uh energy available in the world to deploy uh all the money that the the the NASDAQ and other places inject to to AI last year. There's no place. It's it's a physical situation because the cloud, the cloud, we we I I I I don't know who who creates the the term cloud, right? Because uh when you think about the cloud, you uh it's in the air, it's a theme. No, no, no. The cloud is a physical space, a physical space needs servers, a physical space needs internet and needs a bunch of energy, and there's no money, and there's no energy about liberty. Uh by uh sorry, I ability. Correct me, please, because I'm a cave man uh in the world to uh deploy all the AI promises from last year. And I understand that because I run a 100 megawatts data center. I understand about this. It's not because I see a YouTube a guy saying, ah no, no, this is impossible. My experience is it's impossible because for for two megawatts, for two megawatts of AI, we need to double the bandwidth of whole Paraguay only for two megawatts. You know, uh, and we have one gigawatt of Bitcoin mining. For two megawatts, we need to double the bandwidth of Paraguay and also other things. Uh that doesn't uh the world is not not not ready to deploy because it's impossible to to for Elon or our friends create uh data centers like Colossus in all around the world because there's no energy, there's no technical services, and there's no connectivity. Uh please, people stop thinking AI is the most the most uh smart invest today. Just buy Bitcoin and hold it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Again, really simple, but uh just simple strategy, man. You just buy Bitcoin. You don't need to think about real estate or AI or like you need to trade your stocks uh in the end. Like Bitcoin is the simplest in uh investment for anyone, you know, and also we see it with real estate now. I think you know, people were seeing like Dubai as like this uh really uh you know like a paradise for entrepreneurs, but they they were buying a bunch of real estate there, and because of the war, unfortunately, it's it just crashed. You know, it just shows that uh uh people are using it as an investment, but it shouldn't be an investment necessarily uh uh a real estate, a home shouldn't be an investment, right? Uh I think this is gonna happen anywhere. It could happen anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

Yes, but uh as I said, uh real estate is quite interesting in some places, but the problem it's the the the the ticket. How much how much money do you need to buy uh an apartment in Dubai? Uh 40k, 50k for for just for the for for be part of the people uh uh uh a kid with 16 years that receives$100 or receives in in in uh in Alphabela in Brazil$10 for for their birthday, they can buy Bitcoin. They they can't buy uh real estate in Dubai. You know, uh that's the reason Bitcoin democratize the money. Uh

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

democratize the business because i it's great uh i i always say that i i'm not a real estate guy but i always say hey bitcoin and and cows for me cows it's uh uh i i i'm deep into cows also for me it's instant instantally liquidity uh it grows uh performance excellent performance it's doubles the performance of real estate in paraguay uh and it's delicious uh i i want to be involved with things i that i love and i love stick and i i'm into bitcoin and i'm into cows too you know uh that's a that's the reason i because if you if you are investing in something that uh allows you to have a learning path I think you are in a good way if you invest in something you that doesn't understand you are not investing you are gambling and i i need to uh we need more investors in bitcoin people that understand start from zero and became heroes from bitcoin and that's uh you can do that with 100 satoshis you know you you need to check our uh the hackathon we organized uh you can see it on hackathonbitcoin uh com uh it was a mexican educational bitcoin hackathon and we didn't expect nothing because we only put like 10 000 pesos in price so it's around$500 that's really low for a hackathon and we got 37 projects from all over Mexico uh outbuilt with AI so you know bytecoded but uh I I would say a good half of them are like super good quality so you know it's a bit random but you need to check it out and it it also makes me bullish that because of AI and everything we we can now democratize also education about Bitcoin because everybody has their own way to understand Bitcoin. I think there is not like one specific way you you can understand it. And now that people have the tools to to make it for cheaply and everything everybody can kind of become educators as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

And you as an educator probably you have uh you know an opinion uh about this as well is this the model you're you're trying to reproduce yes because uh I think I think these these kind of tools are worthless for people who has no idea what they want to do but if you if you have an idea if it as I said I get seated uh uh um I I know hey I want to create uh a new uh website uh Bitcoin in Spanish easy blah blah blah uh I develop in one night you know because I I know what I want to do but if you you you have no idea and say hey Claudia how can I get billionaire in one week with a Uh it's stupid because the the what what moving the people it's it's it's the the the the hunger of create something it's not only if you if you want money there's a lot of not uh business you can earn money uh if you only want money you know but if you want to create something money it's just an accident you know but get fun creating things get fun learning new things I think that will always was my my first rule in my life uh you know I I I'm very happy with that uh so yeah you said you said right you need to have like a proper goal uh to make it work for you so you could not just ask it for to to become rich yeah I don't want to take too much time uh with you Bruno uh because I feel I could talk with you especially uh you said uh with the beer paid with Bitcoin uh a really long time uh you know I hope that uh we will either meet here in Mexico in Mexico City at La Casa de Satoshi I don't know if you you heard about it I I'm not a conference guy it's a convergence I I met these guys uh I met the this guy La Casa de Satoshi and the other guys who has the this house it's not la casa de Satoshi the other place in Mexico the the old the the old woman the old woman uh Lynn yes no no no no no no no the the white paper house in Merida yes yes yes yes yes i i i'm not uh very a conference guy i i try so hard because i i respect all the conference organizers i i travel to the conference because i i respect them because i know the the hard work behind that and for me my highlight this year in plan B and El Salvador uh was the La Casa de Satoshi and the white paper out uh both both uh Mexicans I love Mexico uh not for Bitcoin for other things uh several times from the past um as I said I I I know Pepito uh Tepito uh and other places I think Mexico is one of the most fascinating places in the world uh I love Mexico I I love the food I love everything and the people is very very very warm uh very very very friendly I I I feel quite Mexican I'm sure we will meet either here or in uh Paraguay because I also have it on my uh uh bucket list urgent bucket list to visit and it's urgent it's urgent because now now is the moment yeah yeah it's nice did I miss anything uh about the situation or something you you would like to to add in the end no just uh uh as for the people to transform their lives uh and transform in what you want to do not transform in what uh mainstream wants us to be just look your path and look your freedom and what is freedom for you because uh there's some people who is happy living in very uh very dictatorship countries and it's fine uh I think we are not all the same but I I I I want to the people to take option about what they want uh um and the option became with the knowledge and the knowledge became with the curiosity um I I I I want to people be more curious and free. I I I will thank you because uh I I also admire all the people who take a camera a microphone um and start creating content because it's very necessary for for Bitcoin adoption get more people who look we look like good people you know uh people like look look like common people talking about bitcoin living in different places living different experiences I think we need to um fluid uh TikTok fluid Instagram from good people talking about good things because there's a lot of shit today in all the media in all the mainstream in all the social media for me this is uh a land of hope talking about bitcoin in in in social media it's to build hope for I love that thank you so much uh Bruno uh this was Bruno Vacotti Dura Tonancy right Vacotti Bacotti Bacotti uh so thank you so much everybody you can uh check out the acceler accelerando bitcoin dot com if you want to visit Paraguay if you want to visit Bruno uh this probably will be the best occasion to catch him and thank you for all the work you're doing and uh you know good luck with the the fight with the the the regulations and everything let's talk in a few weeks uh and let's figure out how it's going