JAMES ROFFEY | THE HUMAN MASK PODCAST

What happens when your entire identity is built around one dream… and that dream is taken away?

This week I sat down with James Roffey for one of the most raw and honest conversations we’ve had on The Human Mask.

At just 17, James was released from professional football after spending years in the academy system. What followed was a decade-long battle with an eating disorder that nearly cost him his life more than once. His story shines a light on something rarely talked about: male eating disorders, identity, self-worth, and the pressure young athletes face when the thing they’ve built their life around suddenly disappears.  

Today, James has rebuilt his life, becoming a mindset and strength coach, helping others navigate the challenges he once faced himself. But this isn’t just a story about football or recovery. It’s a conversation about who we are when the mask comes off and life doesn’t go to plan.  

If you’ve ever struggled with identity, purpose, mental health, rejection, or simply finding your place in the world, this episode is for you.

Watch now on YouTube and listen everywhere.

#Podcast #SelfAware #HumanMask

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Human Mass Podcast. Today I've got James Roffy, high performance and mindset coach. Welcome, James. Pleasure to be here, mate. We've done well not to do the pre-podcast thing. No, no. Okay. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Yeah. I don't know if you know this or not, but there's only one planned question I have on a forecast. Yeah. Do you know it?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

I don't actually. I didn't want it because I didn't I didn't want to have any. I didn't want to have any. Okay. There's only one.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Well, there's one at the end as well, but there's one at the start, which I ask everybody, and you'll say by that you'll see by the tone of my voice that I don't want the standard answer. But there is no real answer, I suppose. Anyway, the first question. Who are you? Oh. Yeah, it's horrible, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:41

Sorry. Who am I? Um I guessing based on based on the stories that we'll go into and delve deep into my backstory, I guess I'm a person that embodies resilience and never lets never gives up. That's me.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

And you're hanging on that. Would you would you not class that as more of a a a trait based on previous you know rather than who you are as such? Do you know what I mean? Is that not not a really it's a fantastic trait to have?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

No, you're probably right, actually. I think yeah, uh the easy the easiest way is okay, but I'm I who am I? I'm a guy that's uh that has been through some setbacks and all I'm trying to do now is help empower other people to not go through the same shit that I did. That's what and and deal with it in a in a in a better way.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Yeah, so that so that is like a purpose, which is also very good, which is also very good though. That's good. Yeah but so but but if you go underneath that a bit more, I suppose, that next layer, I I'm not putting words in your mouth, but it means you are a a caring, giving person, then I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Is that the I mean as a as a core under soul I think not everybody is, yeah, and obviously I know you you'd have to speak to my parents and other than they're incredibly biased, but yeah, I think I think I've yeah, I've always been a I've always been a like an empath, empath, and uh yeah, kind and caring and considerate. Um so yeah, I've just uh I've lost it for a little bit and then it's come back as I've as I've got older and recovered.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah, you've not let life harden you in that way, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

No, like yeah, and it's probably probably to my detriment at times with with getting uh taken advantage of, I guess, but you can't you can't you've got to embrace who you are and what's what how you how you proper yeah, how you're wired in inside, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

It's a it's a is a it is a tough question, and there's no real like right answer, and it's not like a trip-you up question, but but I can tell by your body language and the way your eyes and your head's moving that you're actually after this podcast gonna look into it more and you'll probably do a post going. I've been asking yeah, this yeah, because it's a it's a deep question to get into and you can you can multi-layer it and go into it a bit more, yeah. But um, okay, so we uh chatted on Instagram first, yeah. Um and uh uh I vibed with you, which is why you're here, and hopefully you've vibed with me later. 100%. Um now there's so many different parts to James's past. I don't even know where to start. I'll just briefly just like that, and then you just pick one, I suppose, and we'll go with the flow. Because um you were signed up really early as a footballer, wasn't you? Seven, yeah. Seven, which is so young. Yeah. And then they just let you go at 16.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

And then there was uh an eating disorder, which I don't think I know somebody's uh who's going through that, and when you look at it and you delve into that subject, you don't realise how many people suffer from it. Uh so there's that we can there's that. There's uh the you you talk, you talk. I'm gonna try not to talk too much. That's my that's my problem. My self-awareness is I talk too much. Yeah, so yeah, there's but you pick and start.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

It's weird because it's all done in like 10 years at football, 10 years of the eating disorder, and it's now what 11 years into like my recovery journey, so to speak. But yeah, yeah, uh 38 in six days. No way. So yeah. Um yeah, it's uh yeah, and obviously from from from recovering from the eating disorder, it has then then like life just chucked me a whole load of stuff in terms of cancer scares, leg breaks, seemingly happening. This is after the eating disorder. Yeah, yeah, this is yeah, this is in the last 11 years. Um Have you had a break? Yeah, what's something up there? This is why I'm coming on there. This one coming on there, help me. Um yeah, there was that, and obviously, then the uh the there was there was a marriage, then there was the the news when we obviously were looking at having kids that I'm infertile. Um and then very quick after the infertility results will come the uh the affair and the divorce. So you or she did ex-wife, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Okay, let's go right to the kid. Let's that's quick time, let's go back. So as a as a young footballer, um I'm I love football. Yeah, we spoke about that. I do love football. Um you read Nottingham Forest. Um but the I know from football, and I've obviously know some ex-footballers as well, that the and it's similar to Richie with the army, yeah. You didn't probably get to that quite to that stage, but it's very regimented life. You eat, you sleep, football, everything's just football. Um so that for them to then just say at 16 what club what club was it? Charlton Athletic. And they just went, sorry, mate.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Just yeah, it was just a we don't. There's no after care, isn't it? No, we don't think you're tall enough. That was the flip and I didn't start grabbing. I know that's the that's the that that was the the sucker punch for years. Obviously, not being like fully like I don't know, like how tall was you at sixteen then? About five, seven, five, eight.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

No, you shot up then.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, obviously I was I was uh obviously it it go it goes back to the to the infertility stuff, obviously. What they what they thought I had was obviously I was um I didn't hit puberty until 18, 19, very late. Yeah. So it was like within the space of like six months to a year, it was like I was put in a pot of miracle grow and just shot up overnight. No. So but yeah, that was the biggest the biggest issue. Obviously, back back then, yeah. There was obviously we're talking 20 what was 20 years, I'm I'm I'm 37 now and at 17, so it's like 20 years ago is when I got when I got released. Um obviously back then there wasn't aftercare, there wasn't really a lot of player welfare stuff or feeder clubs or in your head before they did that your in your head it was just I'm gonna be a footballer. Not not not a single doubt in my head.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

So you you're having you've had like a which is horrible to have at that age, you're having like an identity crisis then.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

That was the biggest again, you I didn't understand what it was until plan B. Yeah, nope, no plan B. Um and it was like you go back to what you that was the in in the it was like an apprentice style um like review. Sat on one side of the table, and then there's about six of your coaches the other side, obviously doing an appraisal with your parents or no no my parents were obviously in the well my my mum, my nan and my granddad were in the in the clubhouse. Obviously, so you had to go, it's almost like the walk of shame to go back out. So but yeah, it was uh yeah, thanks for your time. Obviously, went through went through all the good things and then went through what they thought was the issues, and then obviously then their decision was obviously to not to not sign me as like obviously at 17 it was signing a professional contract. Um and then it was the last words were go back to what you know and I'd been at that club for 10 years, so from seven to seventeen I didn't know nothing else. Um obviously I had relationships with my obviously I went to private school as a kid, which is which is which is like a a great opportunity looking back now from my parents, and then I went to like a grammar school, so like I had um I used to be able to leave early to get to to get to London in time for for training. Obviously, training was three days a week and then games on a weekend. So yeah, I had m yeah, my whole life revolved around it. So it was like to then for that to be then taken away, it's like all what am I now? That's what the issue was for me. Like I've my social circle, like I had my my role. I was the popular sporty person, that was me, it was Mr. Football, and then I'm not Mr. Football anymore. And so, yeah, who am I? Where do I fit in? And yeah, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Well your parents, what did your parents say? What advice did they give you at the time?

SPEAKER_01 8:03

My parents were just like we were like obviously they were they were proud of me anyway. However, that was it. Like I didn't I internalized everything as failure. I fouled them, I fouled myself, I fouled my group and boat like my nan and granddad, I'd failed my friends. Um and it was obviously like I just sort of feeling to have a 17, though, isn't it? Yeah, but and I think I think the thing was then obviously not not that people bloke still don't talk about stuff, do they really? But back then I just didn't yeah, I just internalized everything. And if had I've had the conversation with them, would have things been different? Again, we wouldn't would never know. But I just I just took it as in for 10 years they've driven me back and forth. Like my my mum used to take me to training, and then my dad used to come on match days. Um and we'd travel the country. Obviously, we'd get we'd get on the bus and obviously Charlton would put on a bus and we'd just travel travel the travel the country to play to play football. And I just thought I've just wasted ten years of their life. And that that they've invested all this time and money and they've got bugger all to show for it.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

It's a horrible way to carry that, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, and obviously. And I you know, as a parent, yeah, you like you you wouldn't want your children to think like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

No, but but but because but then but then the the the situation or that that that was all on me because I didn't talk to them about it because I just that's what I thought, so that that was red. That was there's there's no there's no point me talking about it because I don't want them to just reinforce it. So I know that's the answer and I'll just carry that. And obviously that's how And what did you do then? Uh well after I it was in within the space of a but just over a year, I'd gone from obviously being at Charlton, got le got released, didn't do very well with my A levels, got told to leave. Um and obviously being at a grammar school, you're drummed it's drummed into you to go to university, so I had to then go to college to get uh a different qualification to get enough UCAS points to go to uni. So I started at college, which was again having to leave my friends, failure. It's a common common theme there, and then I think I started the college in the September at the new school year, and then my nan, my mum's mum, had uh lived in Peckham in London, sold a house to come and live with us, and then she got diagnosed with cancer the beginning of January and then passed away the beginning of March. Good yeah. Um obviously it was when it was diagnosed, it was uh palliative end of life. So she uh she like gave up and let it consume her. Um so we had like McMillan nurses at home. Obviously, being at college like a couple of days a week, it was just seeing that rate of decline. That was the final straw for me in regards to like I'm not good enough for football, I'm not good enough for my friends, I'm not good enough to stay at school, and I'm not good enough to help my nan. It's like you look at it now and you go, Well, if the doctors can't save her, there's bugger all I can do. And obviously, like school thing, okay, is what it is. I was never academic. Like I was in the top, I was clever enough to go like past my 11 plus and go to grammar school, but I was definitely in like the bottom percentile with that. My friends were just naturally clever and I just I couldn't grasp it because of football. Like it was that's right, I've got football. So and then obviously, yeah, the football thing not being there anymore as well, just like you said, complete lack of lack of control, lack of identity. Um and obviously I I took that control back in the form of what I ate or what I didn't eat. Um and that's how Did that start after your nan died or while while she was in it? Yeah, baby, after it was after that. It was just like this um like eruption in my head. Um obviously mine Out of nowhere, like Do you remember it?

SPEAKER_00 11:22

It Because trauma sometimes blocks out memories, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah, no, like it in the the anorexia it was like the slow burn because it started out as just I was just used to run. I just started running um as a way of Is that what it was, anorexia then? Yeah, it was initially anorexed. So many different versions of the eighteen months of anorexia. Um anorexia where you where you don't eat.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

You just don't at all. Yeah, it's almost like the like the response. That's the the way you view yourself or body dysmorphia as well as the Yeah, I had I had that I had that as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

But that the the the initial I think the anorexia was just slowly crept in because it started with obviously I just felt numb with all these things that happened. I just I didn't I didn't care anymore, I didn't have any feelings. But the running kind of gave me that runner's high, that endorping rush that I probably got from football. So I replicated that with running, so I used to run and not eat at all. Uh I it started out like uh normal, um normally eating, and then I'd I'd I went from like running for an hour a day to like two hours, three hours, four hours, and then it I went from like not eating in the morning, so I used to just run on an empty stomach and that felt good. And then uh yeah, it was just that progressive like in the gym, like progressive overload. How do I how do I how do I how do I push myself even more? Well, I just won't eat. So yeah, I cut back from like three meals to two and then from two to one and I just have dinner.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Um and this um you're on about the delay in puberty, weren't you? So is this before you hit puberty or just after you've hit puberty?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

This was it was it was literally around the same time.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

And obviously that's where my joke and that was part of it, like the hormones around your body kicking it. I mean, you didn't need that at the time because your heads all over the place, and then now you've got a chemical cocktail happening inside you as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

I think the thing was it was a perfect storm because I because I shut up as well, so I naturally leaned out, which masked a lot of the initial weight loss. So, in terms of like my parents not noticing it, nobody really noticed it.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Putting it down to the running and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

And obviously, so my friends obviously where I left school and I'd gone to college, I still used to go out once every a couple of times a month with them to catch up, and obviously it got to the point where the initial weight loss, it was like, Oh, you're looking well, mate. Like you got taller and like you've leaned out and and whatnot, and then obviously then it went over the over the hill and it started to like you need a you need a burger, mate. You need to the comments changed that. And obviously, and then and then from that point I just started to stop going out, stop replying to messages, and that's when that's when I'd say that the anorexia like took hold.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

And then I just become uh When did someone first become concerned with you? Was it your parents, your friends, yeah? You who who I had to do?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

It was the comments from friends. Obviously, my my parents were worried and uh had like obviously not they'd brought it up loads of times and you know, it's like I'm not right.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Was you aggressive with it? Was you did you buy it back, like leave me alone, or was it more or was it more not not at the start I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Um it was more when the bulimia started that um that I'll become aggressive and uh is bulimia with the one just to explain bulimia, is that the one where you're being sick? Yeah, but you are eating, but you're being sick. Yeah, yeah, but but it's more of with me, it was more like I'd I wouldn't just eat like normal meals, I'd eat like 10 pizzas, like proper just binging on food. Um and the way that I see what yeah, what happened that was the the weight loss and yeah, it was about 18 months of this running and restriction cycle that my parents actually when mum took me to the doctors, um, and obviously we explained the situation my mum explained the situation to the doctors. Bearing in mind I would have been like 18, obviously, I still let her in, so there was still clearly something in my subconscious was like, Yeah, let her talk because I've I can't talk myself because I know I'd I'd bullshit them and lie. Um, and so yeah, that's when the doctor was like, Yeah, we think it's from what you said and the trauma and the restriction and the over-excessive exercise, and then we think it's anorexia, and it was like, What the hell's that? Like it see back then, you know, obviously all the soaps and newspapers cover it now because it's somewhat glamorised. Um there was nothing about it. Um so it was like, that sounds bad. And obviously then I explained what it was, but unfortunately, the reality was by the time that it got diagnosed, I'd already I I think I I still remember my first binge to this day, the first time it ever happened, because my mum and dad went out for for food um to like restaurant and obviously left me at home. And I remember just being like even with the anorexia, I was chronically hungry, like all the time, obsessed with cooking food programs. Um and I remember just yeah, just one the evening that I was obviously I was home alone, which again that was the trigger. If I was alone, I couldn't I couldn't not do it. Um obviously how secretive it is. I remember just literally eating everything in the fridge. Everything in the fridge. Um to this point where obviously like my I looked like I was pregnant, like stomach was like distended and all that, and it was like this I felt the food going in and being in my belly, I felt comfort, like someone was giving me a hug, and then that literally the click of fingers that turned to shame. As in you've got to get it out of your you can't even do this, you can't even have an e you can't even like not eat. Um just so there was just this constant war going on in my head of like and that's what the bulimia was. It was it was eight eight years of being at war with myself, like I need to yeah, I need to eat but I couldn't just eat n like a normal meal, a normal like diet. It would have to be I'd have to go oh I'd have to go OTT with everything. Controlled. Yeah, and it but yeah, but it it would be like I wouldn't eat I'd only eat foods that I demonise in my head with the anorexia. So in my head it was like I can only eat I can only eat like pasta and and chicken and broccoli and rice. When obviously in the back of my mind I was like, I'd love a p I'd love a pizza, I'd love a McDonald's. So obviously when the bulimia started, I was like, I can have all those foods that I demonised because I know I wouldn't keep them down. And obviously that's where with me the bulimia was more of a food addiction wrapped up in a mental health problem as well. Obviously, I needed that fix of just having these foods and but in stupid amounts.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

And were you living your life at the same time? Were you still running? Were you still going to college? No, everything stops.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

By that by that point, obviously I'd I I got through college, I'd I'd been in this was have been like about tw uh at twenty that bulimia properly started, and that was that was like my first year of uni. Um so I managed to get through I think 18 months at uni, so like a year and a half of uni. And that's when the bulimia was really bad. And I think the reason one of the reasons that didn't really help, like after my nan passed away, she left my brother and I, 10 grand each. My brother used it to put a deposit down for a house, and I used it to buy food to sit down and toilet. Um, and obviously then being at uh university as well, but when people can relate to this, like the student unions when all the banks would come, do you want a student overdraft, student loan? Um so I'd I'd I racked up so much debt as well, which again it's like another thing that isn't really spoken about. Yeah, we wouldn't even associate that with that. Yeah, obviously, because yeah, because you think I was the anorexic when you say eating disorder, people think you don't eat. But obviously, with uh with bulimia, and and depending on on what it on yeah, what it is, it may just be that you eat a normal, a normal amount and and you don't keep it down, or you go full blown batshit. And I mean that's what I did. I'd I'd use it as a I was basically nocturnal for eight years. I'd wait for my parents to go to bed because again it's the shame. Like deep down in your subconscious, you know what you're doing is wrong because otherwise you do it in front of people, obviously you don't. So I'd wait for my parents to go to bed. So from like half ten till six in the morning, I'd come alive. I'd do nothing during the day, I'd pretty much sleep and just be like a zombie. And then when they went to bed, I'd obviously come come alive and have all my foods, and then just basically spend however many hours watching telly, eating food, making themselves sick.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

What's your personality of your mum and dad like? Were they is like one more outwardly aggressive? Are they both quite conservative? How did they deal with it? Did they did they go through did they go through the rolling crush of emotions of you know trying to be care, be obviously show you care and love, and then the next minute, come on, snap out of it, Jane? How did that look from there?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, my my parents have very have always been very, very laid back, never been like autocratic in their parental style in any way. However, my mum and dad took bad good cop, bad cop. Because obviously there's no Who's the bad cop? Mum. Really? Yeah, mum, my mum was on me like a hawk. Like she, yeah, she used to just watch me, and the thing that my mum always did was it's probably a mother's prerogative, isn't it, where they try and catch you in a lie. They know you you know they they know they know they know the ar they know the answers, but they'll ask you anyway, and just to go, well, we know that's not true. That's what my mum used to be like. So yeah, my dad, my mum and dad, they've been together the both both of them this year turned 70. My dad in September and my mum in December. They've been together for they've been together for fifty-six years. Um obviously married for God I don't know, fifty. Um so they they're like each other's rocks, and I was the biggest strain on their marriage. And I mean like they were close to my mum was close to leaving because she saw that my dad was just enabling me by not challenging me. And then my mum my dad was saying to my mum, Oh she was uh oh she was too harsh on me. And obviously it was like, yeah, but if we took your approach, he'd never change. And then my dad's approach is yeah, but if he if he can't if if I took your approach, he'd fuck off. At least he's under our roof and we can look after him or whatnot. And it was yeah, but they weren't.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

It's an awful position to be in for the parents' perspective, isn't it? There's no right answers for him, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

There's not there's where where's the blueprint? Like there's blueprints to bringing up a baby and whatnot, but not to deal with someone that's got a mental health problem. And obviously it's it was never in the family.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

There was never anybody that had any you can't draw upon experience, oh I don't know, when Dave went through this or Janine with the case, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

And even yeah, back then there was just there was not a lot there was not a lot of anything around eating disorders, and especially for men, like the whole ten years of my eating disorder.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

I won't even uh think think about men myself. You know, I'm I'm meant to be open and self-aware. I'd even think that men suffered from it.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

The only the only people that I I ever interacted with were either male doctors or the dads of the girls that were obviously in in treatment. How bad did it get? At twenty one, at twenty-one I was five and a half stone. But your height now this height flipping it. Yeah, like my and obviously I I used to five and a half stone. Yeah, I used to pass out at home. If I got up in the middle of the night to go to the toilet, you know, if you get out of the chair quickly, if you haven't eaten, you see stars. I'd see stars and then I'd I'd be on the floor. Like I wouldn't know how long I'd been there. Um and obviously that that happened more and more, and it normally used to happen at night, so my parents wouldn't see it, and obviously I wouldn't tell them. Um but I think there was one occasion where I'd I did it in front of them on a on a Saturday morning or whatever, and I hit my head on the kitchen. I had like marblish tiles hit my head, and then obviously I woke up in hospital, and that's when let you back out pretty much. I think I I was in there for a few weeks. Um, and obviously at that point, because mental health and eating disorders weren't like prevalent, the waiting list, there was an eating disorder unit in Croydon, which is apparently like the one of the best down south. There was a five-year waiting list for that. And obviously, like my dad's like, we'll be dead by then. A hundred percent I would have been dead. Um but Mait Stone, obviously w where I where where I was born and where I grew up, they had an eating disorder unit called the Red House. Um and I was basically Yeah, that's they weighed me while I was in hospital, and that's when I was like, hey, it was like 40, 40 something kilo, like 40 point something kilo. Um and I was yeah, I was on uh I was on drips, I had f potassium and phosphate in my arms because of where I was chronically making myself sick. I didn't know when to stop. So it's not like I'd go, I think I've eaten everything now. I'd keep going until there was blood, minerals, all kinds of different colours coming up. Sorry to trigger anyone. Um but yeah, obviously that I so that I was I wasn't just gip bringing up the food, it was obviously everything that was in my in my system as well. So I was I was completely depleted of potassium and phosphate, like I'd cramp up all day, every day. Um so I was on yeah, phosphate to kind of rehydrate me and then you were locked in this mental prison, weren't you?

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Then and there's no answer, there's no magic key just to open it all because there's not a trip you can take, there's nothing.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

No, I see, and then this is whereby like again, I'm not I it's it's no different to to men or women. I just don't think people understand that there's eating disorders, and I think obviously everyone naturally thinks you don't eat but with with the with the bulimia and again obviously with the anorexia the the outcome is still the same, it's a slow suicide. That's all it is. It's just you're you it's a waiting game if you if you body's shutting down. Yeah, if you don't sort yourself out soon enough, something's gonna give. And obviously, while I was in while I was in Mateson Hospital, my my kidneys and my livers were shutting down, and obviously the next thing was gonna be my heart. So I was on a I was on a do not resuscitate order while I was in there. Joking. Uh that my parents had to sign. God, but they were in bits signing that. Well at the time, my I was yeah, I was 21, basically, well, being being hydrated and not well fed. Um and obviously I yeah, if I went into cardiac arrest, they wouldn't have attempted to revive me. Um why is that? Because my but my but my potassium levels were that low, which are like the You couldn't have coped with it. No, if yeah, if if my heart stopped, there would have been nothing to I had nothing in my system to restart it. Flipping, yeah. Yeah, so they wouldn't they wouldn't have even attempted CPR or or anything, which is again it's that's that close to death, yeah, isn't it? Yeah, basically. Yeah, and obviously like I'm I'm I'm staring that in the face and it's just like no. Just it's not that I 'cause you're like just dead inside or Yeah. And it could because uh the question was I had in therapy was like, if you had suicidal thoughts, it's like I don't want to die. I don't want to die. It was like but this is my life, that but I'm it yeah, this is I don't I'm not I'm not doing this. Oh I was a bit it was almost like if I if I had them thoughts when I wanted to do it, this would not be the way that I'd pick. I would not pick eight years, eight years of this, and obviously well it was not that many years then, but obviously that's how long it was with the bulimia. I said, but I'd have picked something a bit more instant than than this. I said it's not it's not the fact I don't want to be here, it's just this has just become my life. This is me. Like, and obviously the identity crisis was that I had the football, I had the I had the education, that had all gone. I was too little too ill to work, so I was signed off on whatever it was at the time. Um it was job seekers allowance, you know, and then and then whatever it was, like yeah, and then so yeah, I couldn't f I couldn't physically work, it's like well, I've got nothing. The only thing I have got is the eating disorder. And the control of it. Yeah, so if I get rid of that, I've got nothing. So it's like that Stockholm syndrome. Um and obviously like this angel and devil on my shoulder. Like I knew, I knew I had a problem. Coming out of the eating disorder unit, it was like I I had the the rose-tinted glasses had come off, and I saw myself how I was and I looked I looked so fucking ill. Um I think like even some of my parents' friends like thought I had cancer, and again, I look I looked like there's there's only a handful of pictures, but I looked like a crackhead. Um it looked like I was addicted to something. Um and that's when I I realised that I had the problem.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

But it was did you look in the mirror much before that then? No, you looked at yourself there.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

I looked in the I looked in the mirror before and I'd I'd be like, I can still lose weight, I I still need to lose this. Even like five and a half years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, obviously, and um but obviously the but the again the the the complete confused state of my head was obviously like I still think I was fat, but yet I would wear vest, t-shirt, hoodie, jumper, coat to sit in the house. So it's like I was I was obviously trying to mask it to other people, so somewhere in me I knew but obviously that's what when you have a mental disorder, like you you just do crazy shit.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

But like you said, when you had that realisation, this is the this is the like the wonder of humans, if you like, or if you go into a spirituality sense of it, yeah, someone might say, Oh, that was his guardian angels kicking in for him or whatever because you've looked in mirrors, you know what you look like, and then something something was triggered for you to go, do you know what? The road syntax, I say, come off. Yeah, yeah, well I think it's interesting to think what that was and why, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 27:20

I think I think I spent I spent what was it, six months in the disorder unit, and obviously I couldn't be an inpatient, I had to be a day patient because there were 11 other girls on the ward, and I couldn't I couldn't be an inpatient because of mixed sex, I couldn't there couldn't be a guy sleeping there. So my my job then was seven in the morning until seven at night, I'd be in the unit. Um so I had a lot of time, a lot of free time, and obviously it was like you'd eat, you'd you'd sit on the dining table, be watched, monitored, you weren't allowed to leave after eating for like an hour or so, then you'd have therapy sessions, and the rest of the time you were just sitting on your phone.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

So this would have been like What do the therapy sessions look like? What did they say to you? Because they'd be experts, that's it. I take it. They've done it a million times with a million different people.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah, you think they'd be experts, but obviously the guy, the first, the first therapy session I ever had, and also again it's was it a bit wet like oh how are you feeling? No, it was a bit like this is this is the this is a this it was a it was a man. Like this is the this is an exciting one for me, James, because you're the first first bloke I've ever I've ever dealt with. No because usually it's women, it's a woman's problem, and that was the first time again it was because it was someone external was in like you're right. I haven't seen any other guys. So what and obviously that was like, well, I'm not a man.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

That was my when you said that then I thought you shouldn't have said that.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah, yeah. So again, it was like opening up Pandora's box then. I was like, oh, so I'm not a man then. Um so that was uh yeah, I think I think that night when I got home I had a massive binge and like punishment of yeah, yeah, yeah, big time.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Um Well thing to say it's therapist. Even I thought that was even the therapist I thought. I wanted to do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

No, so yeah, so the therapy, the therapy in there was I didn't find that very useful. Like I've had therapy in other occasions of my life and they have been. I think it's just very much like a the NHS version wasn't you mean that Yeah. Yeah, the well, yeah, the specialist eating disorder therapists, apparently. But obviously, again, it's just like it's like coaches. It's just like rabbits in a parrot in a textbook, isn't it? Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. But obviously, it's like it's like coaches, isn't it? Like you find someone you vibe with and other ones you don't. If you if you find the right therapist, you're away. So it's just yeah, didn't really didn't really matter.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

And did you find the right therapist then?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

After uh I I found a it was like a sports psychologist, that's who was the my biggest help like a few years after that. But like yeah, I've had When you were still going through it though. Oh no, that yeah, no, there was no the therapy the therapy there wasn't wasn't good, but then also I have to I have to take accountability for that myself because I still didn't really want to change. So it's like when you're speaking to when you're speaking to someone that you don't really want to admit your problems because you're still lying to yourself, you're not gonna you're not gonna vibe with them because it's like if they get if they get in my head, like so that you're not getting in my head. So I'll just I'll just use the peep people please and yeah, I know I need to change and uh deep down I was. Yeah, 100%. Because you'd be able to spot that, wouldn't you? Well, yeah, but I'll I have to say I was a very good liar. I was a very good liar. Uh the only person I couldn't lie to was my mum. Um but yeah, so it was it was just a very dark let's see, it was about 24 was when I realised that I've that I need to change, but then it was like you you do something for six years.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

It's a habit form, that is flipping it. What did it say? 21 days to form a habit or three months or something.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Yeah, and obviously, and it had been yeah, it'd been reinforced for so long. While yeah, basically it wasn't it wasn't like a I don't want to I don't want to dismiss like like if you're smoking like smoking you can still do that while living a relatively normal life with your job and social interaction, obviously this stripped me from everything, like I had nothing. You can't live your life. No. So it was like so then it's just like well you try and beat that.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

It's like your friends given up on you by now, the text has slowly stopped coming.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

But I the thing is I don't I don't hold any grudges to them. I've got I've completely obviously I've completely lost contact with all my friends that I had from school. But because it was just like you message someone and it's like, yeah, I'll respond, I'll go out, and then I respond by saying no, then I don't respond, and they keep messaging for a bit.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah, you can't expect them to have the tenacity to keep going for years. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

No, so yeah, so I uh yeah, I I wasn't yeah, no no one was really checking in on me. Obviously, my parents didn't really know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Was there a wider family? Did they know or help or uh obviously my wider family?

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I've got an older brother, um, but obviously he he he was at uni for most of the time I had the the eating disorder, and obviously then he when he finished uni just started working and he stayed up in Sheffield as well. So he was a luckily, luckily for him, he was away from from it all. So his world wasn't wobbled too much by it. No, obviously I was I'm sure they had multiple conversations with with him about it, but it was more of a luckily for him, it's like outside out of mine. Um and I and I I used to be so close to my brother, especially with the whole football growing up. Obviously, uh he's five years older than me, so I was used to playing against someone that was five years older. So I like I he's my rate of improvement was was was amazing because I was just used to playing with someone older, stronger, fitter, faster. Um yeah, so we we were we were very close. Obviously, when he went off to uni, that's when obviously things we started going clubbing before he went, before he had he took a year, like he um yeah, that's it. And then so yeah, at like 17 or 18, like we just we look like lost him really because he was just travelling the country and the world just going clubbing. So and I think I don't know, m what was that a factor? Uh probably somewhere deep down, like I'd lost contact with him. Um but yeah, so it was just 24 was when I realised uh I like I'm actually fucked here because I genuinely know I've got a problem. I've got no idea where to start. How how how do you start fighting it when it's so strong? And obviously, it was just like this angel devil on my shoulder as in like, no, you can do this, mate, you can do this, and it's like no, you won't do it because all you've got is me. Like, what what are you gonna what are you gonna be if you get rid of it? And so yeah, it was like the whole you you'd be alright for a few days and then you'd relapse just randomly, and then I got like the the biggest change for me was like I said, was was then being put in touch with a sports psychologist who used to work for Gillingham Football Club and he was England's uh England cricket team. He was like the sports psychologist for them. So the approach with him was very much different to the therapist where they're trying to pinpoint the exact moment. Everything started, and it's just like I can tell you that. Like I've got all this shit happen. I've had like a perfect upbringing, perfect, perfect life, the epitome of like a spoiled kid that had everything that he'd wanted, and then all this crap happened.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

I looked at the statistics behind it, it's quite normal for it to be from a nicer background that happens to me.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

Yeah, yeah, because again, because it's like I had no adversity as a kid, so then like you got big three traumatic events, which are one of them could have probably been enough, but the three of them together was just like it just caused this absolute shitstorm. But his approach was yes, you've got an eating disorder, yes, you've had it for obviously by then it was like seven or eight years. Do you want it? Do you want this to be your life? And it was like, No, I don't. What do you want? And obviously, my point then was I just wanted to be like a have value to actually have a purpose. And in order to do that, I was like, I need to get back into work to actually be like a cog in a wheel. Um, and that's what it was. It was obviously he with with his help and my dad's help through his network. Obviously, he got me he got me a job as a business development manager for a double glazing company, which is again chucked you in at the deep end in regards to resilience and being told to fuck off all the time on the phone. But it was just that that that was the start. Meeting meeting the sports psychologist and getting back into work, that was the real start of me.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah, if you were a graph, it was just like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

And it's exactly that. And so that that would have been I think I think it was 25. It would have been 25 because I know I I literally worked there every day for 18 months and I didn't take a day off.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Because I realised You just transferred your attention, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

So it's all it was was transference. Like I'd I'd realised by then that boredom was a killer, and if I boredom was the killer and the trigger. So it's like when I got home, laptop open, lead sourcing for the following day. And then by the time I do that, it's like by the time I had a shower or a bath, I ate my dinner, go to bed. Like I was limiting that time to sit in my own head because I wasn't, I didn't trust myself.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Kept yourself busy.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah, and obviously, and slowly by then I started to win win the days. I'd have like three out of the seven days, or four out of the seven days were good. So I'd I'd won that, so I'd won the week, and obviously there'd be ebbs and flows, but eventually it got to the point where I was starting to win more more weeks out out of the month and then more months out of the year. Um, and then yeah, working there every day. I'll he basically told me to take a week off, have a break. Yeah, seriously have a break.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Did he know what you were going through?

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think not not again probably from conversations with my dad, but again, does anyone really know? Yeah, unless you're going through something, you don't know it. Again, but like this was this would have been like 20 yeah, like 25, so like 12 years ago. Again, what what was society like?

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Again, when you look back on that, James 12 years ago. Yeah, I was like, I really don't like that. If you sat in front of you now, you'd be like, What would you say?

SPEAKER_01 36:21

I'm glad you never gave up. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, probably that. Got me there, yeah. You got me there now, James.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

You got me.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, I was thinking about that. Yeah, so so it was yeah, back then it was like this is the this was a guy that was like a bloke's bloke, like run a double glazing company, had used to go to the pub and stuff, so it was like eating disorders that well straight over his head. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so he he he made me take a week off, and that's when I went up to my brother. I went up to Sheffield for a week and just thought, I'm in a better headspace. Like, I was still ill and I was still like so skinny, but mentally I was Scientifically, were you okay?

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Like, was your heart levels and all then things back to normal?

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yeah, I was in a I was in a What weight was you? Well, I I know when I first started going to the gym at 28, I was nine and a half stone, so I was still massively underweight. But I think in terms of like the BMI, I was like on the low end, very, very low end on the cusp of like normal or underweight, whatever it was. Um whereas before I think my maybe maybe maybe ten was like the if you get to ten, you you're probably discharged from the eating disorder unit. And I think I was like three or four when I first went, it was like fucked. Which is which is weird because in in the unit, like you do the whole, I'm not as bad as that. I'm not bad as that, fucking hell, like not bad as that. And I mean you look at it on the on a scale, like you're the worst one here. You're the worst one here, like but again, it's just like well, yeah, it's just like comparison, it's like, well, yeah, I've got it bad, but not as bad as her. And they're probably saying the exact same thing to me. Yeah, um, but yeah, so I I I moved, yeah, went had a week of week of holiday in in Sheffield with my brother, and that's when partying or just no, no, no, just again, just catching up. It's been so long since we'd seen each other properly. Obviously, you'd come back for Christmases and whatnot, but never never go up there. And it was kind of a again, like I said, it was more of a stepping out of my comfort zone. Like if I wasn't at my parents, I was at my apartment.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Was you driving? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Driving. So you did all your testing and you did all the time.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Yeah, no, I did did all that when I I when I was 17. I kind of before you did it. Yeah, had it, I had it all planned. So, like, yeah, I was driving before I left school. Um, but yes, I'd I'd I'd uh I spoke I'd obviously yeah, said it was about coming up and it was more of a pushing myself out of out of comfort zones. Like and I I I moved out of the my parents' house when I was 26, but I literally moved like 10 minutes down the road. Like, what's the fucking point of that? Because I I'd spend just as much time really at home because I'd I'd still when you washing an iron.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Well I was well yeah, probably my ironing, definitely, but washing I probably was alright. But it was more of like a like I knew that I was on this I was I was teetering on recovery, and it was almost like you know when someone ever's done you wrong and they're trying to overcompensate, so I'd I'd always go over for meals just so they they knew I was eating. Oh, that's nice.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

That was the empathy in your pulling back out.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Yeah, so and then and then and it was just like going up to my brothers, he worked as a he worked for a project management company, like a construction, like fit out company, and while I was up there, they were looking for a construction buyer. And it was like my past jobs that I tried and failed and tried and failed because I had just had no I had no resilience and I had no I was just um obsessed with food and nothing was a nothing was I was not I was not focused or target driven in any way because I was just wrapped up with my own shit. Because like this is you, they've they've they've this is like your background on paper. So it was like a bit of sales, a bit of like account management. Um I was like, but I'm I've got a job, I'm right. I'm not I'm not moving on to Sheffield. It's like I have a word with him. I was like, I've not got a suit, I've not got I've come up in normal clothes, like so I was thinking like interview and whatnot. So end up having a chat with them, and then and there at the interview they were like, perfect. Like, do you want a job's yours if you want it? And it was like double the salary and half my living cost. Obviously, Mate Stone Sheffield.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah, it's just so it's like and it amazes how the universe rewards that yeah, as though you've done something out your company and the universe has gone, there you go. Yeah, have an opportunity while you're in.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

Yeah, and obviously that that's that's the moment I said to you, it was like this like you get these like seminal moments in your life where you go, Am I ready? Probably not. Is an opportunity like this gonna come up again if I pass it by? Probably not. Fuck it. Let's just if it don't work, I can come back. I can I have to try. I have to because there's not many chances, there's not many times over the last like the not knowing's gonna hurt more than giving it a go. Yeah, and it's like the 10 years I've not really pushed myself. Is this too too too much too soon? Who knows? So I I decided to do it. Um felt guilty as hell going back to my to my boss. Like, I know you you know, you told me to take a week off. Yeah, I'm um here's my notice. Like thanks for everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, so I moved I moved up to Sheffield, moved everything up, and lived like a baller because obviously down south. I think even back then I my my apartment was maybe like a thousand pounds a month. So I ended up moving up and I got a penthouse apartment in Sheffield for the same. But for like for like £800, and everyone's like, You're paying £800 to be in Sheffield. I was like, I've got penthouse, I'm saving £200 a week at £200 a month. I'm I'm I've won the lottery here. Um obviously I had a lot of not disposable income back then, but then six months in got made redundant. No, yeah, so it was like and that really was probably the first real resilience test from Did you save any?

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Any savings?

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Uh brutal. Well no, I'd I'd I no, I had I I had some, but obviously it was more again, I didn't really have a lot of time to build up any type of of a bank. And the other thing was I think we worked out I probably got myself into about 40 grand's worth of debt over the eight eight years of the bulimia. Like you were chipping away at that as well. Yeah, can you remember you remember Wonga? The payday yeah, I was their best customer. No, yeah. I used to just use them to like rob, it was like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Um and so yeah, it took me, it took, it took me about nine years to sort out my credit, my credit rating and whatnot. Um but yes, I got married redundant and then obviously speaking to my dad, my dad was like, just come back. Like we'll pay the next, we'll pay you six months' rent. I was like, I can't, what a waste. Like, see what I can do. So, what what do you do when life goes to shit and you've now not got a job and really not got any money? I I fucked off to Shamel Sheikh. I went to Egypt on my own. Did you? I was like, yeah, I was like, okay. I think it was either it was either Turkey or Egypt. No. I felt better in myself and I was like, I've never been on a holiday before. And I guess I didn't really know. Obviously, a lot of what you talk about on your podcast is like like self-improvement, self-awareness. I didn't know what I was doing. I was just like, I'll go on holiday. I'll I'll I'll have I'll have a bit of clarity while I'm away of what I want to do. And obviously, what I didn't realise was like how what an important step that was. Like doing solo holiday, that's fucking massive for someone that was basically basically a hermit. Um, and so I'd yeah, I decided that I was gonna I was I might as well see out the next six months. I don't want to be seen as a failure again, so I'll try and make it work. And then I've got a job at the Sheffield Star, which is like the local newspaper, and then for some really fucking weird reason I was like, I want to start dating.

unknown 43:14

So I went.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

I haven't even touched on it, have we? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Yeah, I've got to mind. I didn't I'd say I've I've I've joked about it in the past. Like I didn't have a I didn't have an erection for ten years. Because of that. There's nothing going on down there. It was I was on like survival mode, so yeah, no arousal. I think I'd have I'd have probably passed out if that would have yeah, yeah. Because the body prioritizes, doesn't it? Yeah, all the blood would have gone there. I'd have done. Um so yeah, you go, you've got to laugh about it now. And then so it went on uh the only one I heard of at the time was Plenty of Fish. And not to get the the violins out for me, but it was the the only girl I matched with, the only person that matched with me was a was a girl that was like 15 minutes down the road from me, and then she became my new priority. Like we spent obviously six months. Dating, and then my apartment came up for renewal, and then she was like, Do you want to move in with me? And it was like Yeah? Alright. So I moved in with her and her and her young daughter, and that was like the next year taken up of again unbeknownst to me, with how secretive the eating disorder is, how they how it is with the bulimia and the just the the secretive nature of it all. I I then moved into her world, her routine, and adapted to her routine, which is like a a selfless act for someone, but I didn't even know I was doing it. So again, that was like another level of progress up the ladder mentally. Um yeah, together a year and then one day going to work. Um, James, I'm gonna stay at my dad's tonight. I don't love you anymore. Fucking when I come back tomorrow, I don't want you to be there. And it was like what the fuck? What am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Out of the blue to you.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Out of the blue. Like again, I was completely wet behind the ears. I I wouldn't I would if there were red flags. Yeah, because you were naive to I was just like, oh my god, this is amazing. I'm in love. Like this is it, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm family, family. Um and like, yeah, so at that moment I I stayed in a hotel for a couple of days and then I moved in with my brother. Um and that's when I And you still not relapse, you're still not. No, hadn't hadn't really hadn't relapsed, and especially when I moved in with my brother, because I was like, Whatever happens, you do not put him through shit. Obviously, him and he he was he was married by then. He was obviously my my sister-in-law. Um I was like, I can't do that to him. And that's when I I I got my own closure. I my own closure was I remember just staring at myself in the mirror and uh berating myself like you're a piece of shit. Like, no wonder why she left you. So my my closure was that I didn't look like a man, and that's what was the catalyst. How do I how do I become a man? I go to the gym.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

I just I just come to you, nothing.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Yeah, it was I because I think for it was just like this, I didn't see it coming.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

What weight are you? I know you shouldn't talk about weight too much because of what you've been through, but I wanted to try and get a picture of what you look like.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

That was that was I was nine and a half stone when I first started going to the gym. And again, the the first not enough, is it?

SPEAKER_00 45:57

No. Yeah, I was about to say, No, no, no, not at all. Obviously, again You can't tell on camera, but he's he's he's a big tall blow.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

It's like six four, so yeah, I mean I'm I'm I'm above average for height. And then I remember going to the gym, and there was a gym literally over the road from where I used to live with her. So in my head, I was like, She sees me getting bigger, she'll want me back, we'll play happy families. And then I did catch the gym bug. I went in there the first day and spoke to Mark, who owned it, and I just bared my soul to him. Like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I you I don't know, I don't know how to do this. Never been to the gym really in my life. Yeah, what's a rep, what's a one rep match, what's all this, yeah. And I was like, this is my situation. I've had this again telling my stories like the more people I tell, okay, I didn't know what I was doing. It's like public declaration. The more people that know about my stuff, if I ever went back, someone will challenge me on it. Um and he was just like, mate, I hear ya. Like my my son is a my son's like a junior bodybuilder, and he used to be Mr. Britton. It was like a proper old school gym, it weren't like a commercial gym, like a pure gym. Um other gyms are available. Um and he yeah, he was just like, he's like, if if you want to change, train with my son and just do what he says. And that's what I did.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

So obviously you're way from way from the going right back to football days, yeah. So that was suited you completely. Yeah, was it? I gotta think, just do that, do that, do that, do that.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Exactly that, and obviously, and that and that's how I'm wired now. Still to this day, and obviously, this is whereby like I'm so thankful for football because of how regimented it made me and how structured, I was regimented and structured with the eat disorder.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

So, would you put it on weight now? Because this guy, this Don, would have said to you, Yeah, you need more food in it. Yeah, and obviously, this is where get into protein shakes and creatine, all that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah, protein creatine, like tuna salad and just yeah, like pasta and so he's teaching you at the same time nutrition.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yeah, and obviously, so I ended up going on in 18 months, I went from nine and a half stone to fifteen stone. Brilliant. Obviously, track the journey on Instagram and and Facebook, and obviously that's where my Instagram blew up because of the transformation. Um never really spoke about the eating disorder on a public forum because I again back then it's not that I was ashamed of it because I don't I speak about it any bit to anyone in my network. I just didn't think that it was a thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

I suppose you and you already were done with it as well, weren't you I suppose?

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Or uh yeah, like it yeah, I I talk about it if people ask me about about it, but I wouldn't I wouldn't openly talk about it because then I just I didn't see I didn't put it together as in well, not many blokes have it, not many blokes have probably recovered how I've recovered. I just thought like, well, it's just it's my life.

SPEAKER_00 48:29

It's just this is just uh And even though it's you obviously we're we're saying about the bloke and female thing, it doesn't mean a female can't be inspired by your journey of an eating disorder.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

Yeah, it's it's it i ev everything goes back to your mindset. Obviously, I was I had a I had a very privileged upbringing and a positive mindset. I had a very positive mindset of football, like regimented, like structured. I lived the life and the sad fuck that I am, the fact that obviously I'm back playing football now and like I I treat football like every every game is like Champions League. Like early bed early the early bed beforehand, like wake up in the morning, like little little walk to stretch my legs, like light breakfast, and then get the game, yeah, visualising the game before and yeah, like watch I sometimes obviously I I went through a stage of like filming my games and I watch I watch games back. I've I watched loads of YouTube videos of goalkeeper saves that's like my to to get me in the zone and and that's it. So like again, everything I everything I did, like and that's where the the backstory, like your who you were as a per as a as a as a kid and and your and your upbringing really does shape who you become, but you don't really know it until very later on.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Well that we've going right back to the who you are thing, because it's people don't think about it, like when you're in the womb. Yeah, if you were just born into a field, you know, who would you become? Because really your your your person the personality traits of your mother and your father are put on you, the culture around you, the people you mix with, you know, the talent product of your environment. Yeah, all these things are imprinted on yeah. And you so you don't really know who you are because and then mother and father's personalities are from their mother and father and their mother and father. So it's a so-one and so forth. Yeah, well, I won't get into that.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

So yeah, yeah, so obviously and then and then yeah, the Instagram Instagram blew up and uh What happened like that? Is it like overnight or was it gradual? Very, very quick. Like we're talking within within like within a few months, I'd gone from a few hundred followers to like ten thousand, twenty thousand. Because I think uh when it first started blowing up, I was on I had a private account. So I'd wake up in the morning to like 200, 200 requests and it was just like it was like tapping. I was like, I'll just make it public. And that's yeah, just it's crazy. And then and then obviously I got into I got into my ego stage. Um but most blokes probably have their ego.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

You have deserved it after all. Well, yeah, to be fair.

SPEAKER_01 50:49

But but you've lost 20 years, you know, 10 years of your life. Exactly that. So it's like most most likes you can enjoy it. Ego's not always a bad thing. No, it's not. It's not again it's like and again, I came at I came at the ego stage because of insta because of the the attention of Instagram. Yeah, but I was a bit more I was self-aware at the time as well. Like I knew I knew I was going through it. Yeah, I'm gonna enjoy it. Yeah, well, and obviously that's where like I'm what women's side of things as well, you mean or I've never I've never really been never I've never really been a womanizer. Again, despite everyone thinking I'm a fuck boy, which is a based on yeah, based on like the fact that I I'm I'm tanned, I'm seeing I'm in shape, go to the gym, and I'm and I'll obviously become a a PT. Obviously, everyone just thought, yeah, Jack the lad, and it's just like if only you knew. Yeah, because like again, I if people say it, I'd be like, I wouldn't I wouldn't challenge them on it. Because if you knew me, you knew you know that I'm not. So it was like, yeah, but the the the ego stage was more of um the attention and the comments and just enjoying them. Yeah. Well, that's not that bad. Yeah, I thought you meant like you really like abused them. Yeah, but be like play but but like playing it in regards to like every every workout I did, I'd take my top off. And like so it was like that kind of that kind of ego. Yeah, yeah. But the thing was that I was I was Do you agree?

SPEAKER_00 51:55

Yeah, I was pro that you did you deserve and you you was right to enjoy that time.

SPEAKER_01 51:59

But I I I I do I do know that I became a little bit above my station. But again, it's a stuff.

SPEAKER_00 52:04

Did the universe bring you down? So you do something happens to bring you back down a bit. Oh, it fucking did that.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it it it it it it built me up a little bit more because I then got into into modelling. Oh did you? Yeah, become a become a model.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Someone find you and contact you, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

It was this all Instagram, it was all Instagram, and then and then I got I got on uh uh Celebs Go Dating. Did you? Yeah, went on that. That was fun.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Who did you date?

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Uh it was uh it was talking to um Kerry Katona. Oh right. That was you you've had Yeah, it was that with there was there was three it was like three it was like three of us. We were at this like mixer, mixer event, and she was picking a date for a woman that was in Hollyoaks. So they were picking they were picking dates for other people. So there was like three of us around a table and yeah, it was just obviously like the clip itself lasted, I don't know, like a couple of minutes, but obviously we were there, we were there all day, and it was just being in a room around like wannabe influencers, and it was just like this is fucking awful. Like, because it was like I I'm not it's too service for you, not deep enough, like and yeah, it's like I I I'm I'm I'm here for a very di my backstory is very different to what probably what most people were there for. And don't get me wrong, I made I made friends with a couple of guys that I'm still in contact today with, like one of which is like proper close mate. And uh, but a lot of them in there it was like because I'm not I'm not life and soul, I'm I'm especially when I'm in a new environment, I'm a I'm an observer. I like to figure people out and be like, without being rude, it's like she's a dickhead, he's a sweat. Like we you kind of know who who the people are, so like I'll I'll so I'll gravitate to people that like I'll be scanning the room and there'll be someone else scanning and we'll look at each other and be like, Yeah, you're but me, you are actually Q. And I said so, yeah, so I did that, but it wasn't until it was like we broke for lunch. They were all like that, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Just running the face running around like chasing the camera to be on be on be on the be on the show. And it was like, it wasn't until we we stopped for for a break or drinks and everyone passed each other's phones around to follow each other. And it was like by that point I may have had like 40,000, 50,000 followers, and it was like to see people's change in their behaviour based on oh it's fucking like obvious, like yeah, look they'd come over and just sit with you. Oh what'd you do? Oh no, it's so cringy. Fuck off. Oh no. Like you could not make it any more obvious, and it's just like so again, because I'd because I'd had a whole load of crap, like you can spot people like that a fucking mile off, and it's like I just wouldn't give them time a day. Um and then and then I've got you've earned who you are.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

You type that into it, and then you put you're okay with yourself, you understand it.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

And I think that's where by like for for years I got I got the whole oh he's on steroids and all that, and um yeah, it was just everywhere. I just I took that as the biggest compliment ever. I'd be like, Thank you. The fact you think I'm on gear, I've worked fucking.

SPEAKER_00 54:56

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

Yeah, it's a gear. Yeah, exactly. And obviously, and even like people's first You apply to them all? No. So ignore them. No, I just to me I just I'm I I've never I've never really never really responded to the haters.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

It's like water why is that every do you know uh a guy called Arms Colleone? Do you know that name A R M Z quite big on social media interviews? Rings a bell. I'll probably yeah. Yeah, you will have a look after uh his interview's coming out, but um he he said the same thing. And he says, I don't even drink. Yeah, he's like I don't even drink, and I'm getting these comments. Yeah, it crazy people can't imagine that that could be achieved, that body could be achieved.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Yeah, and I think again, but that that's that's how I just I I spin it as a compliment because it's a big thing. It is a massive compliment. Do you think this is that good? Yeah, nice one, yeah. So yeah, and it's uh so uh but I I I then got into I then joined an agency and then did I did all the all the soaps.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Did you go back a second? Did you who did because I want something like that?

SPEAKER_01 55:47

Who did you actually take who I I didn't know she ended up I don't know who I don't know who she picked in the end. It was it was just all background stuff there by the back of the yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

So go on, go to the next stage and you do the soap.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Yeah, so then I then I've done all the I've done all the soaps. I've done borrowing East Enders, I've done all the soaps.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

What uh uh speaking roles, I was uh uh extras on on Cory.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Um I had a had a speaking role for like a month as a builder on Holly Oaks. No way, and I was also involved with uh with a a storyline with Sienna whose kids got abducted. This is Holly Oaks. Yeah, kids got abducted and went to Spain, and then she travelled to Spain and the kids were basically like sold. And I'm and I was the I was the new kid's dad. So she breaks into my apartment and it's like my my pictures everywhere with the kids. It's just like this is funny because I wouldn't tell a lot of people, yet everyone for football would be like filming it, tagging me in it, putting on the story saying he's fucking here again. It's like he gets about, didn't he? But it's just like a fucking.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Did you have any actor lessons or no, no, no, no, no. How'd you get the gig then?

SPEAKER_01 56:51

Again, just like Instagram again. Yeah. Join joined joint an agency, and then it was just like What agency is it? Uh there was there's been a couple, there was uh Mint Mint Casting, which were based in Manchester. They were the biggest ones for me. Um why are you not with them anymore? Uh I went through we'll get into it in a bit, three broken legs in eight months. What? Uh because of football. Um and obviously that that that took me up during lockdown. So it was like during that time um I was unavailable to do any any work. And obviously it was just like, Can you do this? No, can you do this? No. They stop asking then, don't they?

SPEAKER_02 57:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

So and I joined I joined a couple after that, but then kind of after after lockdown, obviously life took a bit of a a different turn. So I I didn't really have the time because I was doing other things. So but yeah, it was like but the the biggest one for me was was working for Adidas. I d I did quite a few jobs for Adidas for like commercial ones. So yeah, so through that mint cast in? Yeah. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Yeah, so I got to um Yeah, for what they pay you or give you the free gear. You got right, you got right pay. Do you? Yeah, like the job. You guys keep the gear you I take you're modelling the gear, was you?

SPEAKER_01 58:00

Uh no, we were back we we were we were like back we were like background behind obviously I got I did I did two jobs for Adidas and I got to work. The first one was for when they launched their new like devil skin boots and gloves. So obviously me being a goalkeeper, I got to spend like three days working with Barcelona's uh is it Mark De Stegan? No way, yeah. So obviously he was like flown over on a private jet and whatnot. But in the or in the audition stage, obviously when I went to audition, I was next to like David De Gea, Paul Pogba, and it was just like fuck, you know, this is mental. But again, like you said, it was like the like I shouldn't be here, but then it was like, well, actually I should. Actually, like the there's no I I've I've I've put myself here, like I've done the work. I've people found me, but had I not put myself out there, they wouldn't have found me. And um, yeah, so that that was like the first job we've added ass, and it was like this is cool.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

Well, what do you get put you down to when I got paid or not?

SPEAKER_01 58:50

It was I think but based on normal normal extra days were about £100 a day, give or take. It was like maybe £150 and then agency fees and whatnot, you'd come away with like £100 a day. Um so it was like but at the time I was still doing the PT stuff, so it was like perfect for me. But the commercials you're probably talking four or five hundred quid a day, but they weren't even it was like a couple of hours because you're working obviously with these guys that are being flown in, and so the other job I did with them was they didn't tell me who I was working for, um but it was a a a Premier League footballer, and it was like who's that? And uh I think when Barry went under, Adidas took over Berry's training ground right next to um where's Manchester United? Is it Carrington? Uh the training ground, yeah. Yeah, so it was right almost right next to that. So you could see that it's like Fort Knox, Carrington, and obviously a little down the road was was Berry's old ground, which is in in a like shit compared to it. But Adidas took that over, and obviously that's where I filmed with Mark De Stagan, it's where I went back to film with this unknown footballer. So like we're sitting in the sitting in the bus, then we got called to like makeup. The makeup woman's like, You excited for who you're working with today? I was like, We've not been told. She went, You a football fan? Like, yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here. Like, who do you support? Like, Liverpool. She went, Oh, you're in luck. I was like, Who is it? She went, It's Mo Salah. And I was like, No fucking way. So literally waiting for him to arrive. And we just I sat, I spent like an hour sitting in the changing room with him. Obviously, there was like four, four of us, including him. Obviously, he was just we were we were um their new range of uh track tracky tops and tracky bottoms. Um and it was just like he's like the nicest guy in the world. Yeah, you can get that feeling when you see it. Went round everybody, like lighting guy, the runner, went round and thanked them all before and was like, God, talk about you don't meet your heroes, and I bet you but he's alright, stuck up dick. He's a fucking lovely man. Yeah. Lovely man. So yeah, and obviously being a massive Liverpool fan, I'm gonna get him signed, or didn't ask him. No, what you weren't allowed. As soon as you as soon as you got into the don't ask him for signatures, yeah. As soon as you got into the the um into the into the training ground, and obviously like you had to sign a NDA and then they put stickers all over your phone. So you can't, yeah, it's like front and back, you can't you can't take pictures of anyone. So yeah, but again, it was just like the I've I've got the memory, so I'm alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Yeah, did you have to keep the gear?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:06

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:07

No, even and my dad always thought they'd let them keep them.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

They they hadn't even they had they weren't even launched yet, so I think they were kind of like they'd have enough for the day and obviously they'd want them back. So even the even the gloves, like the the devil's skin gloves, they were about £150 a pair, and it was like, oh, do do a pair of them. Um but yeah, it's just like one of these things like I can't believe I've got here because it was like 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

Well like you say you've earned it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:27

It was like 10 years ago I'm sitting making myself sick like 50 times a day with my head down the toilet, and now I'm I'm sitting on the bus waiting to work with most habits. Yeah, it's like fucking hell, but yeah, so there's like there's like cool, cool lessons in it. Just like if you don't give up and you and you work your ass off, like the universe again, it's is yeah, it's not what you know, it's who you know, isn't it? In terms of if you keep putting yourself out there, something something will click eventually.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

Um people like you talked about, if saw your followers, you wanted to be near you all the time. It's it's full of that, them sort of bigly.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

No, it is, it's very, yeah, so it's like very clicky and whatnot. Um and then yeah, so I I did I did all that, and then um I had a I ended up having like a cancer scare as well. I had a lump, I've got like a scar on my neck where I had a I had a um like a cancerous lump that obviously it just was getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Um and that that got um I had to have an operation to remove that and then all clear, all okay. Yeah, all yeah, yeah, all clear. And then within a couple of months of recovering from that, that's when I went through the the leg breaks. So this whole time from when I I I I split up with a girl that I obviously when I first moved to Sheffield, split up with her. I I dated someone similar. Oh, I dated someone soon into my gym journey that never really went anywhere. So I'd I'd been single for about four years, and that's when obviously I then I broke my leg on the 28th of December. Um like a uh one-on-one. Yeah, well, I the th again. This was the thing. I ended up um the team I used to play us play for Dromfield, who were like we were like really, really good. Like we I I started playing for them, we won, we won the league, and then we did the cup, like league and cup double, and then we won the league again, and then we got to I broke yeah, I broke my leg like in in the December, so it's quite early on in the season. And then that in in hindsight, it wasn't a bad break. There was a guy because I'm quite tall and I'm very loud when I play football, people always love to elbows and corners and whatnot, and the guy kept on stamping on my foot, and I've still got the clicky toe to the I don't know whether he broke it or not, but my my my big toe just clicks every time I move it up and down. So he kept on stamping on my toe, and it was like the last the first one you you laugh it off, second one is like that's your last warning, like you'd not you're not getting away with it again. And so he did it again. So, like for the the fourth corner that came in, this was like early in the first half. Giving it him back, yeah. I literally I I I moved in front of him and I swung my elbow back and I literally like split his nose. Like he obviously broke his nose, and he's like on the floor, like pissing with blood, and I was like, I fucking told you. Yeah, like you've done it three times to me, mate. Yeah, and then he went off. Um and then his teammate got me back good. It was like a And broke your leg. Yeah, 50-50 tackle, and he he like scissored me. So like my foot either side of uh yeah, my foot in the middle of his um and it was like I I thought I heard a crack, but I just thought it was like impact like which part like uh it was but just above just above it was my left my left my left leg, but it was just above uh my ankle. Um so like the ball of my ankle, there obviously it ended up breaking a bone like George, like a chip. Um and so I but I didn't realise, so I carried on playing. I carried on playing until the end of the first half. I was giving me jips. Yeah, but it was like you you know you're stamping it, like I've got pins and needles, I gotta come back, and then the I took a I took a goal kick at the literally the as I kicked it, ref blue for half time, and my leg like collapsed underneath me. And I was like, fuck. And I I took my stupidly took my boot off. As soon as I took my boot off, it was not going back on. Yeah, it was. Um I remember saying to the manager, like, I'm gonna have to come off. And my mum and dad had come up. My mum my dad was watching, and we were supposed to be going out for dinner that night, because they'd lived down down south, so they'd come up like post-Christmas, and we're gonna spend like a few days together in between like now and New Year. And um I went out for dinner. I was like, it's alright, it's alright, it's alright. And it w they stayed with they were staying with me. So that morning they were leaving, so it'd been Sunday morning, they were leaving to go back down south, and my foot, it was like I had elephantitis, and it had gone black. Um so they were like, Do you want do you want us to drop you off at AE? I was like, I think I'm gonna have to get an x-ray. Um and then yeah, obviously it turned out that I broke it, so I was in a cast for six weeks. Um and in the same time that I did the whole beggy post of my foot in plaster for New Year's saying I don't know what don't know what to do, any any f Netflix recommendations. And uh there was like a um uh uh yeah, off the back of that someone someone replied and it was someone that I had uh reached out to six months prior to sli sli slid into their DMs and she came back with a with a Netflix documentary. Or whatever to watch. So we start I started watching that, and that's how we started talking. And that person turned out to eventually be my ex-wife. Yeah, I don't want to say wife because there's no. And so we we started talking when I was obviously recovering from the leg break. My first game back was the semi-final of the cup. Like the biggest game of the season against the team that we constantly vibed with the title for. So it was like I've got to get back for that. So I did, and I was having an absolute fucking blinder. It was one all at half time. And then right at the start of the second half, it wasn't even a 50-50. Like ball was on the edge of the area playing on like a 4G pitch. Their striker's running for it, my left back's running for it, I'm running for it, I've called for it, so I'm taking them all out. And I ended up obviously as I've as I've slid, I've slid and got the ball, and then he's my right knee, knee to knee. But as I'm already diving, my leg's already on a bit of a weird angle. So it's like knee to knee, and my knee kind of goes back. And again, really painful, but adrenaline rushing semi-final with a cup, walk it off. I didn't realise that I'd actually broke my leg in two places. Um and so I was playing playing, I played like 40 minutes with a broken leg with like five minutes. They they scored, so they were winning 2-1, and then like five minutes before the end of the game, they put a cross into the back stick. I plant my right leg, and as I jump up, it snaps underneath me. Yeah, so it's like 15 and a half stone of like falling underneath your leg. Like on a weak leg. Fucking pain, mate, was unreal. Like I went into proper shock because I I thought you're like shit. It was like it was oh I I was on the I was on the floor, but I I heard I heard a I heard a gunshot. I heard what I thought was a shotgun. That loud. Yeah, and obviously everyone heard everyone knew what it was.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

They all heard it as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

Yeah, they all heard the snap. The snap was apparently just like you know, you yeah, you just like fucked. But I went, I I thought you could I thought so. I've gone all goose bin play. Yeah, um I've got yeah, obviously I've I thought I'd been shot, and then it was like someone had a lighter behind my knee that were inside my knee, like the back of my knee, just lighting this lighting the lighter. It was like the burning sensation was unreal. Um obviously game got stopped and abandoned, and but then because it was a Saturday afternoon, football injury, I had to wait like nearly five hours for an ambulance. Um so yeah, they they they drove my car onto the pitch because it started to get cold, and I'm like propped up against my car, and it's like looking down at my leg and it looked like an S. Like a like a I was like, uh this is absolutely fucked. Um and then yeah, when I got got taken to the hospital and then it was broke in four places. Um luckily prior to the after coming back from the first leg break, I used to wear the compression shin pads, so it's like the sleeve, like like almost like socks, and another pair of shin pads on the top. And then had I not been wearing them, the bone would have come through the skin. My tip and fib had basically like crossed over. So it was keeping it in. Yeah, it was like my compression shin pads were keeping it in my skin. Um, so the benefit of that was I didn't need surgery. The disadvantage was they had to pull my leg back into place. Um, yeah, so that was uh that was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

But in my my face you didn't want everybody else's face, since that like crippled.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

I'd have to I'd have to send whether you can put the x-ray up, yeah. The x-rays fucking gnarly. Like just like my whole my like my my yeah, my my tip and fib Yeah send it me. Yeah, my tip and fib broke, but it's just like my whole like your whole shin bone was just it had it had snapped and then gone up. Like the break was just horrendous. Um and that was me. That was me done. Um I got let out of hospital like a week before we went into lockdown. So my my lockdown was me leg up, like cast like toe to bollocks, couldn't move my leg. Um but the first lockdown was you everyone, it was lovely. Everyone got like a free holiday because the weather was brilliant, and luckily for me, the best investment I've ever made. Not don't worry about your crypto or your gold or whatnot. I bought a set of adjustable dumbbells and a weight and a bench before we went into lockdown. So I think I got it off of Amazon, made it cost me like 250 quid for the lot, and I think I sold it three years later for about 400 quid. You've served your time well. So again, in my head, I'm like, got to keep gym, gotta keep routine. So I set myself a goal before we even Oh, your Instagram's talking at this time, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

Same timeline.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

Yeah, but I think I went with the I I I posted about the first leg break, obviously this one, and during lockdown, I barely posted anything. I used to post home workouts, but nothing about mental health or how I was doing or whatnot, because I I just I didn't I didn't I didn't feel I had clients at the time, but obviously when we went into lockdown, there was nothing. Um you couldn't really charge them for for doing out. But I had my own routine in my head. I was like, I'm gonna do a thousand press-ups a day. Bloody out. Like not obviously do them in chunks. I'm gonna go for a two-mile walk, hop, um, and I'm gonna hop. And I'm gonna do obviously stuff for like my upper body to keep me.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

Did you walk with it with your cook?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:55

Yeah, she said, yeah, just walk around. Um it was I I was out for an hour longer than wherever I should have been. I was out for a couple of hours. Arrested by way of it. Did you have the job? I had to. I had to, obviously, being in and out of hospital, and eventually when the restrictions were lowered, obviously my ex-partner at the time, we'd booked a holiday. So the day the day after they stopped the the flying restrictions, we'd we'd we flew. Um but obviously you had to you had to have your jab to yeah, which is like I we none of us wanted it, but it was like, well, I paid for this holiday. We waited fucking 18 months to go on it, so we're gonna go on it. Like, okay. But I went through I started to use peptides, so I used um TB500. It wasn't peptide, for people that don't know. It's like uh if if anyone knows what like growth hormone is, obviously it's um it's something you eject in yourself, which it's the easiest way to put it, can enhance a lot of things. It's not a steroid, but obviously it can it can it can cause muscle growth, it can increase your metabolism, it's kind of like this sort of wonder drug that's obviously big in the bodybuilder world, but the the growth hormone is like there's so many strands of like classes like DNA and peptides are like one strand of growth hormone. Um and obviously I I'm quite into my supplements and whatnot, and I know that this was like a apparently like a miracle, a miracle drug for repairing. So you use the yeah, BPC 157 and TB500 in a little liquid that you reconstitute and it's like a insulin pen that you have to inject near to the as near to the the site as possible. So it's like I'm trying to do this with my cast, like pull my cast and and do it into my leg. Um and I got told I was gonna be in the cast for 18 months. So February, I'm thinking, fuck, like summer next year. Within by September, I was out of the cast. Because of the peptides. Well apparently so, and I I yeah, so I got back on I got back in the I got back in the gym, and when I say that, I mean I was walking on the treadmill on an incline to put like stress through it, and I had this weird lump on my I've still got it now, I'm on my shin, obviously, but they they classed it as like scar tissue. Um went to my physio who I used to see for my back, and obviously did the whole like scraper, but you see it when they scrape your shoulders and he was doing that on the scar tissue to get rid of it and cry my eyes out. Um because of the pain. Because of the pain. And I was like, speaking to the doctors, it's like you're clinically healed, so you are you're fit. X-ray wise, you're all good. I've got I got all signed off. I was like, so that means I can go back to football at the start of the football season. I'm thinking like the second week in September, I was like, I can get back for the first game of the season. And so it was the first, pretty much the first and only.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

You can break you like Joe again. Is that that's not where this story's going. Yeah. You are Joe.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

First game back, and obviously by that point I'd been seeing this perfect of the season, yeah. Is that where this story's going? No. Yeah, so I managed to get through the first half.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:52

Why is it chances?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

Yeah, managed to get through the first half, all good. Again, I I constantly had this like pain of like it was so tight around my right shin. Um, but I got told it was fine. I got I'm healed, my physio is saying it's all good, it's just scar tissue. And then, yeah, second half, I went to claim across and I basically got my feet caught in mud. So as I've got my right leg caught and I've jumped up, it's literally I've just separated my leg again. Um, and that's when obviously the third leg break was when I was a Debbie Downer. Obviously, by that point, we're like September getting close to Christmas, or like it's getting dark soon, you can't go out for as long as before, weather was crap, and it was just like, why me? Like I did feel I did I had like a really shit mindset, my mental health went a little bit poo. Not like depressed, but just like not that I want to put this on anyone else, but you can give me a break. Um and then so I didn't I think I came out the cast in the April and I did nothing until July. I was like, I'm not doing anything, and I think press ups or anything? Nothing. I did nothing, like but barely walked on it. And obviously that's where but I mean even press-ups, I mean nothing. Nothing. I was like, I was just convinced. How did your body shape change from that to that? I felt I looked like I had like a dad bod in my head. I I was like the in my head, it was like the worst I'd ever been.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:13

However, I Did you still post on Instagram as well or not? No.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:17

Oh no no no no no, and but by that point as well, I was I was leaving Sheffield and moving to I was getting a uh a place with my ex-wife. Um you know where this story is going. Um and yeah, so I ended up moving to moving to Huddersfield, and in that point I'd made the transition from being obviously the the acting stuff had bugged off by then. The PT stuff, I was still, I was looking obviously looking at doing that uh in in Huddersfield, and I I'd I actually started to work in the gym group. I worked as a PT in there, but I wanted to make that transition into online coaching, and it was like seemingly everyone was qualified after lockdown, everyone became a coach. Like, how the fuck have you done this when you're not allowed to do it go go anywhere? So I I kind of like thinking about who I can be and well where's what's my niche? Like niche is my fucking story. So I became like James and mental health pt. That was my that was my that was my my business when I when I moved to Huddersfield and I was trying to trying to grow that while she developing my relationship with her and trying to yeah, new start, new business, new everything. It was like a like r another like reinvention, brand new chapter. Um and it was it was going all right. It was going alright. Like I got I managed to do some work with um like the NHS and I got into uh like Huddersfield, uh their their rugby, their rugby team, um giant Huddersfield Giants. Um and yeah, doing a lot of networking, started to do podcasts, and that's when I started to talk about obviously the eating disorder and and and the backstory. Um again while trying to uh grow my relationship and uh like we yeah, we moved in together and then we eventually I proposed to her, we got married June 23. Um so like kind of fast forward in like a year or so, but it was just a year of trying to grow the business. You know, it was like networking events, trying to get myself out there and getting clients. Earning, was you earning from it? Yeah, not not obviously not not a lot, but obviously there were there there was there was it it was getting month on month it was getting better. Um and it's like it's new, so it's it's understandable and um yeah, got got married and that was a that was a big thing for me. The not so much because of it being her, it was from for my dad. My mum and dad, sorry. Yeah, from where they've seen you. Yeah, yeah. And obviously, like my my relationship with my mum and dad. I I I whether you want to call me like a like a mummy's boy or whatever, fine. I'll wear that I'll wear that t-shirt. I'm I'm proud of the relationship I've got with mum and dad, because they could have fucked me off with the stuff I've done to them. They could have they yeah, they could have they could have just washed their hands with me. I know they I know they would never would. Um, but like my relationship with my dad is very I'm very close to my dad, and he was my best man. I asked him to be be my best man, and so yeah, so that that day it was just like that they probably would have thought in their head of they'd never see this day, or they're like for how long it's taken James to get ready, like to get his head sorted and whatnot, they may not have been here to see it. So it was like a very special day to share it with them. And for me, it's the only time in my life I felt like I was uh in one area of my life the same as my dad. Like my old man was like, he's incredibly successful from like a business point of view. Like, I'm nowhere near that yet. The relationship he's got with my mum, nowhere near that yet. However, I was married, he was married. Like I'm I'm at that level now, and I'm I'm at the level with my brother as well. So it's like I've always been seen, I always see myself as like black sheep, they're very much ambitious go-getters, they haven't had to deal with they've had shit to deal with, but not as bad as me. And so I've always felt like I'm a little bit behind them academically, financially. But on that level, I was I was I was there and I was I was again proud of myself. I was very emotional.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

Isn't it a sh a shame that that as a as a human trait, that comparison? Isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:07

I think I think it's it's it's one of how you see it. Like I I see it as this like fire in my belly, the drive, the drive to like it, it's like it's not that I want to as a positive yeah, yeah, it's like a positive comparison. Yeah, it's it's one of the things that yeah, to it's like uh I don't want to just I don't want to imitate What I mean is were you doing it for you or for them, I suppose it's both. It was it was both. It was it it's definitely both. Like they it I don't want to imitate my dad. I want to like almost like emulate with my own with my in my own world, in what in my own profession. Like I don't want to I don't want to run a an alarm CC TV company just like my dad and uh it's not about that. It's just but it's it's having the his traits and and and what he's instilled in me to kind of be like that, successful, fully like self-sufficient and whatnot in the thing that I'm doing. Um are you there now? No, no, no, I'm still on that journey, like obviously the the the business and whatnot is going alright, but it's not I it needs to need to to I want I want to be able to help more people and more people help the more money I get. So um that's the metric, isn't it? The more it's not about the money, the money comes with the people that you serve. But so that was like that's why I was like incredibly proud of being on that day. And then obviously we went off on a honeymoon, we spoke about having having kids. Um she'd had a she'd already had a daughter, so I I gained a a stepdaughter for a brief period of time, and it was uh like July time is when we went to the doctors just to get tested to make sure everything was good. Um she got results back straight away, and then I got a a text message and a phone call that I need to come in. Oh, yeah. And so it was like, well, they found something. It was like, have they? That's why they're asking you to come in. It's like, and for so long, not to be uh I it's not that I avoided the doctors, I just never went. I was never ill. Um so it was like I kind of lost the that oh shit. Um so yeah, we discussed about she discussed with me what have you thought about being worst case scenario? I was like, no, what worry about it twice um if I do that. Like my brother, my brother's got a got a son. Um obviously they they they trouble they they had trouble conceiving, so I'm like, there's always options, IVF, like worst case, worst case scenario, IVF. The worst case in my head wasn't that I couldn't have kids. Um and she she posed that question to me. Uh it had like Monday morning was the appointment. We went out for dinner on a Saturday, and that's when she posed the question to me. Have you thought about it if you can't have them? I was like, no. She was like, What will you do if it is? We just won't have kids. She went, We will. I was like, We won't. She said, Well, like, I was like, what are we going to adopt? She went, I'm not adopting. She said it's we'd have to do like sperm donor. And obviously the ego in you, I was like, I'm not letting someone fuck my wife and that. She was like, Well, no, that's the only option, or we separate. And it was like How long you've been married now at this point? This would have been end of October, and we got married in June. Yeah. So it was like surely you don't fucking mean that. And so then that's when the the cog started to turn, and yeah, Saturday night didn't sleep, Sunday night didn't sleep. Obviously, Monday went to the the doctors, she wanted to come with me, and I was like, no, no, no, no. Like I'm doing this on my own back. If like if it's if it's worst case scenario, the map I f I feel like I'd have to be supporting you before I support myself. And so I went, and obviously that's when they were like, there was no sperm in the sample. There's either two things, it's either the fact that obviously we have to retest and make sure, but it's either you are potentially infertile or it was a um like a contaminated sample. I'm still hoping it's a contaminated sample, but I think after doing about 10 tests and they all coming back the same that I've got no sperm, it's pretty obvious what it is. Um so I've got obviously I came I came back after those results before prior to obviously having to be booked in to do another sample, and yeah, the results obviously I told her and her first question, her first two questions were how the fuck could you do this to me? And have you always known? And it was just like looking back now, that was the day that my marriage ended. Um unbeknownst to me, within a week she started having an affair.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:18

Fucking hell.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:19

Um She does not mess about, does she? No, no, and then and then she like manipulated the situation over the November, December time that I was depressed and that I needed to go and have therapy down at my parents, like 300 miles away. So I was like, I don't need to go down there to have therapy. If I'm gonna do this, I already want you present and with it, so I can talk about either will you come with me or I'll talk about it with you afterwards. She's like, no, you need to do this and go down and unpack all the shit in your head and be a better man and be a better husband, and like I'm not leaving you, I'm not going anywhere. And it was like, But if you're not leaving me, you're not going anywhere, why can't I just have it up here? Bit of bit of space. Yeah, bit a bit a bit of space and whatnot. So yeah, first of 1st of January I went down to my parents and I didn't really go back. Like I was only supposed to be down there for a month, and obviously that turned into two, into three, and then in March I found out that she was having the affair. Um Instagram story. Hers? Yeah. She actually she accidentally reshared his, and obviously because we were married, I had notifications up, so it said that she'd obviously shared a story and it was her on a date with another man. That's cold. Yeah. So there's always that thing about is that was that her way? Was that like, I don't want him anymore, I don't really want to tell him, so I'm just gonna show him. Like she deleted it not long after, and then either way, that was cold. Yeah, and then I I went up the following weekend to I played dumb. I played dumb, I didn't see out. I realised by that there were a lot of changes in in our in her actions in the time that I was away. Um how can we put attention seeking online, yeah. You make your own mind up about what what that was about. But yeah, so just like living the life of a single person when you're supposed to be married to me, like level of disrespect was like on another level, and it's like I can't I can't, this isn't this is this is not how it should be. This is not how I should feel either. Um I was yeah, when I went up to confront her and then didn't really expect the confrontation of how it went in regards to like we're talking complete character assassination. Of you, of me, yeah, like don't ever call yourself a man. You're joking. Yeah, you have one job. You have one job to have a kid, and you can't even fucking do that. Like what you do for work is a joke. My friends and I take the piss. Like, men's mental health, like Oh, you're joking. Yeah, I found myself a real man that like fucks me better than you ever could. Oh, you are joking. No, no, no, no. And obviously, but I like honestly, I'd that's cold. Like, but I was proper to be fair, to be I to be fair, she never deviated. Like you got it's a it's a really fucked up way to give her some some level of like fair play. Like you your your level of she had this plan and she executed it to perfection. Like to manipulate me, to get me out of the way, to do what she wanted to do, to then me find out and her just go, and what?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:13

Like it's it's just like any of them personality jokes I never thought when you Oh the the I missed a whole load of red flags. Because United, because of that ten years you lost, and it's all linked, isn't it, to that 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:24

And this is the this is the thing now. Like, I don't it was awful what she did. It really was.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:31

And it's just like Yeah, I think because you can't believe you fucking you didn't did it like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:36

The weird thing is, like, I don't hate her. What would you respond when she was Oh stoic as hell? Right. I was just like, I know what you're doing. I know I know what you're doing. It was like, yeah, I said I said the silly thing is I don't think you realise who I am. Like, and this is like the the thing with me, like you said, about if you've already been through that, this ain't as bad. Like when you lose control of your own head and you lose control of your mental health to the point where you are literally staring death in the face, and that isn't even like a you know what James, wake the fuck up. Like if that if that doesn't if that wasn't the catalyst for me to recover, someone doing this to me a few words, yeah. Yeah, it it doesn't really power into comparison to when you gain back control of your own head. Like that's someone external, like I've already battled the shit in my own head, so you doing that, yeah, it's disgusting and it's massively disrespectful. You ain't gonna this isn't gonna affect that because this is fucking bulletproof now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the kind of approach that it's just like, well, I'm glad it was five months into marriage rather than five years when we had everything together and whatnot. Because it would have been well, if it you know if it's besides it's still in the day. Yeah, but then ev even with that, it could have been that she could have found out we'd have had the news and then miraculously she fell pregnant. Miracle baby wouldn't have been mine. Oh no. Like you know, but it's like all these all these things that you kinda go, she could have done that, she could have done that, she could have done that.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:51

So you've had a you've had a good swerve there in the argument.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:55

Yeah, a hundred percent. But then but then the best thing was, and obviously a lot of people have said that it was too soon within Within a month of me finding out that, I met someone else.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:02

Didn't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:03

And like for the f I like and it's the are you with that? Yeah. Very well.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:06

What yeah what so you met uh I met her.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:09

I was in Edinburgh. Um I was doing trying to do some some some work with Juventus Football Club for the youth academy, weirdly based in Edinburgh. I know, I was thinking that you could be in London or Manchester, surely. Yeah. No offence to Scottish football. Um just cold up there. Yeah, yeah. And so but obviously I was I was there, I had a lot of time on my hands, and I was just scrolling through Facebook and completely superficial. Like this we had one mutual friend was a friend from football, and I just fucking hell, she's gorgeous. And it was like for for six months, uh again, kind of going back to like the eating disorder with like nothing going on, didn't really I felt rejected and there was no sexual emotions going on with me, and it was like just seeing the picture of this girl was just like fuck yellow. Um yeah, so yeah, completely superficial, add as a friend, and like accepted five minutes later, and then she started following me on Instagram, and then she liked a couple of my pictures, so I liked a couple of hers back, and then I the center of the voice note, and it's like uh about about a year or so ago, it was like, what was that message I sent you? Because everyone asked me, How the fuck did you pull her? And it's like I remember sending her a message, but I can't remember exactly what it was. So we went back, scrolled all the way back through, and like the opening message was like, Hey, really appreciate you like accepting the friend request. Don't really know why I've done that, just to let you know my story. Because I thought obviously on my socials it still said that I was married, and I'm sure if she went down and and snooped, then wedding pictures. It looks like you, yeah. Yeah, and it's like technically I'm still married, but I'm single. Um, I'm currently what 36, 35, living in my parents' spare room, haven't got a job, haven't got a house, used to live in Sheffield, looking at moving back. If I do, is there any way I could take you out for a coffee? Fair place. That was it. Fair place. Oh, by the way, I can't have kids. Did you drop that over there? Yeah, but that was all in. It was all it was all bundled in. They're like, like, I'm married, can't have kids, haven't got a job, haven't got a house. Yeah, but I want to take you for a coffee. If I can afford it, I'll take you for a coffee. And yeah, I think our reply was like, that's the most honest, fucking weirdest voice note ever. And we never we've never stopped talking since. Oh that's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:22

Um I'm glad that's happened. Yeah, yeah. So then and obviously that and that's that's again going back to facing death in the face. You've gone can't bother here, I have that. What'd you think about that? Can't you? You've got to have all that. What do you think, Lord?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:32

I think that's what it is. You've you've got to you've got I I can't I can't I can't rewrite my past. I've got to own it. And and uh it is it weirdly enough, every bit of shit that I've gone through, something good has always come out of it the other side. And it may not be straight away. Or what you yeah, or you can't see the good coming, or yeah, yeah, and obviously, but you have to just keep on that journey, and obviously that's where again at the same time of of all of all this stuff happening with the ex-wife, like the business shut down. So it was like I'm now like I said, 35, not really sure what to do. So I did what I did when I got made redundant from another job. I said to I said to Kay, I was like, I want to go to Dubai. I've been before and fell in love with it. She was like, Do you want to go? She was like, I can't I can't I can't really afford it. Um I've got my son and stuff as well. I was like, if you could get cover for your son for a week, would you come with me? She was like, Yeah? So beginning of May, so yeah, we started talking beginning of April, beginning of May, so in a month of knowing her, we'd we'd we'd booked and gone to Dubai. Obviously, I had uh I should say this on a podcast, but obviously knowing full well what was happening with uh the the the marriage going to shit, money was siphoned off and deposit money was then taken and I used some of that money to go on holiday. Um and yeah, that's where like Kay and I kind of just built this built this bond. And it's not really it's not really stopped since. Obviously, I was kind of um in an R in about what do I do in terms of work, like where do I I was I knew I was gonna work for myself, but I didn't really know what to do. I realised that the type of people that I wanted to work with weren't gonna be interested in the mental health PT, James and Mental Health PT, it's not exactly like a sexy fucking name. And with the stigma attached to it, it was like I've got I I'm more I'm more than the PT and I'm more than a mental health coach. It there's so I I literally sat in in the new apartment and just locked myself away thinking like who do I want to help how rebranded yourself, yeah. And that's what I did. Obviously, August August is last year, August 24 was when it when the new business launched and ultimate body and mind. You can see it going.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:40

Yeah, all that slides perfectly onto the manosphere. Yes, yes I've seen a couple of posts you thought about the manosphere. I did a random post about the manosphere, actually, as well at the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:50

I very rarely comment on on things that are like topical. I just don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:54

I don't know, I don't know but that I did. I did do a little video on it, um, and I saw you did one. Yeah. I completely agreed with everything you said. Yeah. And now I know a bit more about your background and stuff, especially because the manosphere it's a tough one man sphere. Right. They I believe like the the main guy that was seems to have all the attention about it was that is HS. He's just ticky tock. Yeah, he's just on the main, yeah. And and looking at him as a young lad, he's just on an earner, really. I don't think believes off things he's saying, but he's just on an earner, so that's where you're earning your earning. Um but what you've been through with it with the woman who's done that to you would drive a lot of men that way, wouldn't it? And you're yeah, you're not agreeing with that whole manosphere general subject, are you? No. Give us your take and the opinion on the manosphere.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:43

I just think, in terms of like the the sad reality is it's the generation that we live in that whoever shouts loudest gets heard. It's not about what you say, it's it's it's how you say it and how loud and almost like divisive you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:54

So I just interrupt you quickly, I'm really telling you. I've done well not to interrupt you, but it's probably the best I've ever done. I'm using interrupted non-stop. I did a post the other day, and then could you because you're a content creator if you like. Do you ever get them posts come up where they go, this is a hook, this is a hook, this is a hook, and trying to keep people engaged. Yeah. And I did one. I went, This is a hook, and I drop it, this is a hook. I said, I'm not even actually saying anything that's worth any value to your life at all. Yeah, I'm just keeping you on my paper. No, it didn't go right. It didn't have to test it again. Because I don't think I did it to the to the right. It still did all right at numbers, but what I'm saying is it's you're right. That it's just about attention and keeping and keeping their attention and not actually thinking what the value in any sort of message is. Yeah, it's just and that's just current that's just current human we're up to with the evolution of humans and it's and also like you look at I'm sure I'm sure there are some things that it's Harrison, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:42

I mean I'm sure a lot uh there's there's probably a lot of what he says actually makes sense and is actually valuable information, but how it's completely all dressed up and how it's delivered makes him look like a tit. And I think that's where the sad reality is, is that there are so many young well, they are young men, even if they're teenagers, they're still young men that are very much they haven't been brought up in the generations that you have and I have, that where there are actually morals, there is respect, and there is levels of accountability where men and women are they are equal, but we have we have strengths in different areas that they have different strengths and areas. Like you look at it from a from a profession point of view, women are more caring, hence why there are more nurses, are predominantly female, and also you look at more labour-intensive jobs, construction workers builders are more men. And that's okay. Yeah, and that that that's not me being sexist, that's me stating facts. But it's like it seems like there's there's this weird this weird area now where men these type of people have become that divisive that they've kind of concocted this narrative that men are better. And it's just like we're not. Like we're we're not and if you say that you're not, it's because that you are f like feminine and you're not a man. And it's just like the the idea of what modern masculinity is, it's it's to be a fucking misogynistic dickhead. And it's just like where where have we lost where have we lost that to me? Chivalry. Like I've I've I model a lot of my attributes today on my dad. I've grew up with my dad working his bollocks off that he was basically a weekend dad for most of my upbringing. But when he was here, when he was home, he was all about me and my brother. He'd take me to football, never missed a football match on on a weekend. So like I knew that my dad was never around, so I was more grew up, I was more attached to my mum because she was around more. I respected her mum for everything she did. She didn't have to work because my dad earned enough to keep her at home. So she was she was like she was the housewife, and that's what she did until until she had to go back to work. So it's like I kind of grew up in that environment where my dad was the worker. Traditional. Yeah, it was yeah, exactly that. And it's like, but but then I also knew that when my dad had been away for like days on end, if he was staying in a hotel, he'd always come back and he'd take my mum out for food, or he'd come back with flowers or earrings. And it's like, I know that's not inherently what you do because you're kind of almost buying things to a point, but it's like I've been away and now I'm stepping up. And don't you worry, I'll look after the kids this week. It's the thought behind it.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:17

It's not like what expensive earrings were, it's the thought behind it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:19

And it was always, I was like, like, yeah, we'd take my mum out, would take us on holidays, like my mum and dad always got a new car. But then it was like the smaller things of yeah, like that, like the flowers, and when he was at home, it was like putting a chair out, putting a chair in, holding the door for her. And that's that's that's that's stayed with me to this day. And it's like I think the reason why we're in this situation at the minute is that they're seemingly like we've lost that from either from my gener or the generation after me. So guys haven't grown up seeing their their their families in a in a traditional family environment. It's predominantly maybe that they're single households where the the men hasn't been around, and the reason why or they're both working, yeah. Or either way they they seem like they've lost that male role model, and now they're going to TikTok and they're going to social media to to reach out for that role model, and it's again because it's whoever shouts loudest gets heard, they're then going, okay, that's the guy for me. And it's like, but there's so many other people you can if you're gonna attach yourself to someone, attach yourself to someone that's actually got some fundamental value.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:20

Yeah, I the like I was saying on the post that I did was a as a general quick gist was why does it have to be the all the way over here or all the way over here? Why can't there be? Yeah, I'll be happy middle. Yeah, happy middle. I'll just be a man. I think it's right that men have a level of physicality, that they they they've got a certain level that they can they can fight and defend themselves, even if um I know Luke Dyson was in here the other day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm sure he beat me in a fight, right? But I can beat-beat both of us in a fight, yeah, but at the same time, but I can fight and and and I've got that level about me, whether I can beat everybody or not, is irrelevant. I've got something to show up and protect. I can do it, I can be there and have that protection, uh, yeah, be protective. Um, but also like I I still have my post, which might have been controversial, but it was right at the end, so probably not probably not people got to the end of the post. But it was I don't get mentioned ask permission from the wives either. There should be a mutual thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:14

Have we got anything on Friday? No, okay, I'm going out. Yeah as long as you're not taking the piss and you're out every night, yeah. I think because then roles get mixed as well, where men start to ask permission from the woman. It's like it's not your mother, yeah, it's your girlfriend or your wife. Yeah, you know, they should be equal. But if I see her equal, then that's gotta work both ways, hasn't it? Yeah. You know, don't nag me either. And it's just you know, that it's playing to your strengths, and some women like your mother and my wife, who have who have been at home, been fortunate enough to be at home. Yeah, I say fortunate enough for the kids, fortunate enough for the kids to have their mother around. Yeah, but really it's a sacrifice because they've they've got no idea they don't know who they are themselves, because they're just mums, because I know it was like when you were growing up, but my wife, it's mum, mum, mum, mum, she's running around after everybody. She, I'm sure was. So, like, you know, where's her time as well? And and it, but it's that's her her version of sacrifice where I'm a bit similar to your dad, where I'm always working and I'm at home.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:05

That was your sacrifice.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:06

That was my sacrifice, and her sacrifice is that, and and and but but what I've never ever done is seen her as below me.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:15

And that's an important message, isn't it? It's not no one's beneath you, nobody. No, no, no. Man or woman.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:20

Yeah, no, and I think I think again, that's if that's the important thing that I ha I've had from from my parents. It's just like they're both they're both they're both equal. They just have different strengths in different areas, and that's what yeah, that's it. So that and that's where I think this whole thing, this whole thing is just it's just odd, I just don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:35

I don't. And why why do you think it is then? Is it is there a lost generation? Like you said, no purpose.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:40

You think it's no purpose? It it's it's no purpose, and and it's I think it's just the fact that like you look at the left the levels of of of like the family unit, it it it's become broken. Like a lot of families.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:52

They can't afford to not have most people can't afford not the wife not to be working or going out to work.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:58

I think I it could be that. It could also be that we are now in a social media generation, and I even I obviously I know that firsthand that if if you kind of lose that, if you go through trauma, it's very easy to quickly jump on your Instagram, flush a bit of yeah, flush a bit of tit, get a whole load of attention, and then go, grass is greener. So that's another that's another reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:18

That's a short dopamine hair, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:41:20

And obviously, and that's obviously like my mum and dad's generation, like we're talking like what 50 odd years ago, like you didn't have social, you had no distractions. If you had issues, you talked about it, or you fucked off. Like you you didn't you didn't just you didn't just ghost someone or you didn't just buried it in drink or whatever, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, because we didn't we didn't we didn't have this attention seeking of like, well, if you don't want me, I've got 10,000 followers that that well someone's gonna want me. We don't have that anymore. So I think that's whereby relationships now are a lot more fragile. So I think because of that, again, we b kids are grow uh are being brought up in in single households, which again it's like it's you you you work with what you got, but the the consequence of that is that if if there isn't if there isn't the the father, they're gonna they're they're gonna lack that that that ro that male role model, and the same if it's the it's the dad bringing them up, they lack that female role model. So and they're gonna s find that from somewhere else. So and where they're gonna find it, social media, which is the root cause of a whole load of shit. Like it ha it serves its purpose, but a lot of it is is divisive. Miscommunication, wrong information, and like and like yeah, just a whole load of misleading like connotations of what it's like to be a man. I think that's where like to me it's just like yeah, you have to have the physical element, which obviously what I say within the gym, you've got to have the right mindset. And the one thing that I would back Andrew Tate with is about his his his speak about you need to go through shit. You need to know adversity, resilience, and tenacity. Without that, again, the first thing you ever come across, it's better to come across things early, deal with it, learn from it, build yourself back up, armor yourself up. Because the later on you get, it's gonna hit you like a fucking ton of bricks. And yeah, I think I think we're like we're just seeming like a a generation of almost like wet wipes with no stick ability. So when things get hard, people bounce, relationships break down, there's kids involved, the kids then don't really have a role model to look up to, so they seek it elsewhere, and the people that they're seeking out at the minute aren't the type of people you'd want as a role model, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:43:17

So and that's obviously where you we've now got this society of For if they were hitting the basic message of get fit, get strong, yeah, why bring the women into it? There's no need to bring the women into it, is there? Just get fit, get strong. Yeah, it's not like and then learn something.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:29

Yeah, and it's not like you can say like women are irrelevant because you're gonna be labelled with misogynistic, but like you said, yeah, but own own yourself, be confident in your ability, be able to protect yourself, and then and learn self-awareness is important.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:40

I mean, like you're talking about the dads, and because even the parents could stay together, but the the dad, if he's not done work on himself, yeah, he could be passing down his traumas, his past onto the children as well. Yep. So it's important for dads and men to go have that self-awareness. Think, why am I like that? Why do I do that? Yeah, to be the example, to be the example and change. Yeah. Uh I've got a very good friend Mike who's done amazing the way he's changed the way he is, and he and he's like, it's so difficult to do to look at yourself and go, that's not right, it's not a good trait. Where did it come from? I'm gonna change it, I'm gonna do better. It's the hardest thing to do. It is, especially when it's stuck in in your like late 30s or whatever, and you're trying to change it late 30s in your head.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:19

Yeah, and obviously that and that's that's my my audience now, uh predominantly men, like 35 to 55, that are kind of again, there's there's multiple stages of where they're at. They're either like there's kind of two like ideal clients for me. There's the guy that's got, he's an entrepreneur, runs their own business, they either have the family, and because of that, they're doing all these things, spreading themselves too thin, that they've kind of lost their own identity, they're not happy with how they are, yet they don't give themselves any time because they have to have it for work, they've got to have money to support their families, and it's like you optimise their life to be able to give them time back, which you can do by having the right structure. Or there's the guy that is that doesn't have the family, that's got the lifestyle, has everything that you would kind of want on paper, but has no one to share it with. And it's like though again, it it's kind of that. So that that kind of age group, like 30, 40-year-olds, is as long as if you can teach them, it's it's then again, it's like paying it forward, passing it on to their to their social circle and obviously eventually their own kids. It's like and if you if you can teach them the habits and instill in them obviously like the the like the self-awareness and the mindset journey that they're going on, they're inevitably gonna pass it on to their kids and be their kids are gonna follow that. And that's it's like people say like how how do you how do you change what's going on with society? It's only gonna come through the education and then like replicating that model to the to your to your kids and their kids and their kids.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:38

Um Andrew, you're like you're doing positive with social media as well, isn't it? Sending a positive message. Yeah. There was two things I wanted to touch on as you were talking. One was um, because I don't want to dismiss um I'm not going PC or woke, but some men haven't got that, you know, so everyone's different, basically, is what I was trying to say. And some men are effeminate, is the right word. I still be that's irrelevant. Okay, you're effeminate. It doesn't mean you can't be strong and you can't just be strong and if that's what you want to be. Yeah. If you don't want to be, fine. But I suppose it was just touching on that side of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:10

So I think I'm I I I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't class myself as a man's man. I don't, I don't go out, I don't, I don't drink, I don't, I don't smoke, I don't take, I don't take drugs. I'm not saying that's what men men's men do. Yeah. But like people's ideas of me, it's just like I'm this like alpha kind of man because of how I how I look. And it's like, well, no, I've I'll have a cry. I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll talk to my missus about about stuff and if things get on top of me, I'll I'll cry. I'll cry watching a movie or something on Instagram, like some rules about dogs and whatnot. And it's just like so I'm I'm in I'm in touch with my feminine feminine side of whether you want to. Yeah, it's uh however you want to say it, but it's like to me it's it it to me that's I see that as strength. I see that as strength of being able to cry and owning it and not like doing it behind closed doors and like again taking taking charge of my what's deemed as like a taboo, like in terms of the eating disorder. Not many men go through that. Well it's maybe who I am today, so I have to own it because I wouldn't be that I wouldn't be on this journey had it not been for that. I wouldn't be on I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now, I wouldn't be with Kay had I not found out the news about my fertility stuff and ex-wife doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:16

You might even look back on your on your own personal everyone who's been through stuff can look back at these pinnacle moments and think, yeah, God, that was odd, but meant to be. That was odd, meant to be. God's plan or whatever you want to do. Are you religious?

SPEAKER_01 1:47:27

Uh no, I I'd say I'm more What's your view on that? Uh it's something that's never been like Are you spiritual or I'm spiritual?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:33

I think that's what you believe in like a higher force.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:35

Yeah, I think there there are there are too many there are too many things that have happened in my life where I've I've seemingly been put in the right place at the right time. You can't ignore these things, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:42

No, and obviously, and uh again I I put it down to You're not saying it couldn't you're not saying it's not God, but you're saying you're not sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:47

Yeah, I think because again mum I'm I I was I was christened as a child, so I'm I'm obviously on my birth certificate or whatever, I'm I'm I'm a Christian. Like my my mum's side of the family are religious, but we never went to church growing up, so it wasn't something that was instilled in me. So it's just but yeah, since I've uh turned the corner at uh like at 27, I feel that yeah, there are there are like certain moments you go, I can't really understand that. I don't know why that's happening. Have you meditated or anything like that? I've never done that. Have you not? No, like I I I write I don't I I I I don't class it as meditation, I don't class it as journaling, but I do I do I do write I do write stuff down in terms of if I'm feeling like crap or I'm feeling overwhelmed, I write stuff down to kind of get it out of my head. So I've always said it you can't journaling. Oh yeah, yeah. It's like you can't you can't you can't tackle the problem and think about it all at the same time, but if it's in front of you, you're kind of unloading it in front of you and you're seeing it with your eyes, so your brain's free to kind of prioritize stuff. So that's I've I've done that, and kind of like when I feel like things aren't going to plan, like you write a list of like what's going well, what isn't going well, to kind of reaffirm actually, it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:58

Yeah, because I mean you're still going right back to when you were that younger age in football, even to this day, there's something in your DNA, who you are, whatever it is, that's that's got that's got that logical analytical side to you, which and and I suppose maybe you might or you may not is then delve into that spiritual side because it's amazing if you get into it with the with meditation, with Reiki, or whatever that looks like to you personally. Um, because then I I what I haven't done, I've done massive self-development, massive load everything. But what I haven't touched on yet, which my next my next step probably is like ayahuasca or DMT, them sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:33

I've I've I've seen so many people I've watched so many podcasts about it. It's like it's like with me and unless you're watching.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:39

I've got um Monte Casso is at right now. The next one, James, yeah, watch his. Okay. He he he went from no like like it's like you, yeah. No, I'm not meditating, nothing like that, but I'm gonna go straight to ayahuasca now. That's more or less what he did, he's mad. Okay. But watch his characters on the mirror. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:56

Yeah, I think I think it's one of the things I I if I I I breath work.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:59

Sorry to judge you. No. No. That's a good form of it as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:03

No, again, the only time I have breath work is in the gym or when I'm playing football.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:09

Didn't you have a look at that side of life? Or is that losing control? Because I think you like to be you still like to be in control, don't you? Yes, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:19

I think it's been I say it it was drummed into me from seven, and I think it's never really it's never really left me. Um it's just been like Well habits and control, yeah. And yeah, the structure and routine. I think obviously that's um I think to me to me my whole life is it just goes back to my mindset. I've always been structured in routines. It's just where my mindset's been as to how I've used that as a blessing or a curse. Um but yeah, like the bread, yeah, the there there are so many things. I think I just I have just haven't I haven't I haven't tried to haven't tried it. I've spoken I've spoken about it, I've spoken to people that that that do it and like they they rave about it. It's like with me, I think with with how I'm wide, I'm kinda like I'm all in, I'm all out. But if I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna go like balls deep into it. But it's like if I'm kind of like I don't really understand it, I won't do it. I won't do it. So I'd have to but the yeah, the ayahuasca stuff, I've that's um it's it's it's it's interesting as hell, like just to be able to like it's like taking yourself out of your head and looking back in from a different perspective and getting unlike unlocking answers that it's just like that would be cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:18

It would be, but that's why I'd say like not how James did it, maybe, but is just you start with meditation and bitch.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:26

Yeah, or that might suit your personality, yeah. Jump jump straight in. Yeah, it might suit your personality.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:31

Um I've run over as usual. Um I usually as well part of like as a little like game with myself because I I'm really into love astrology and numerology. Have you ever looked anything like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:51:41

Again, no, like I'm aware of it, but it's not yeah, not something yeah, not something I've I've delved to.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:46

You should have a look at it, even if you'd look on just briefly on Chat GBT about numrollogy, it's unreal, like about your your life path number, what it means. But I was gonna I was gonna guess your star sign, but I just have a guess if I get it right or not. But you kind of told me you were both doers in a week, yeah. So I can't deny that I so that means so but I wouldn't have put you that, I wouldn't have guessed that anyway. So is that an Aries then? Taurus, Taurus, yeah, so yeah, of course. Sorry, yeah, but there is so I wouldn't have guessed that anyway, but so if you look at your do me a favour and come back to me. Yeah, do you know your mum and dad don't know your your time of birth? Right. So you can comment on this when it's out, yeah. You can comment on this bit on YouTube and see if I was right or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:24

I've got you as a Scorpio, right? Right. I so you're not because you're Taurus, but everyone's two star signs, you see.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:30

And it'll be your rising sign, which is what's outwardly shown to the world. So I'm gonna guess a Scorpio, okay? Right, okay. So you can let me know from right or wrong when it comes out, okay? Don't forget. Alright, no, no, no, um, and then so numerology. Yeah. Um I was gonna try, I'm not I'm not as up on numerology as amistrology, but I was gonna guess um I was gonna guess a life path nine. Okay, right. So that's just a dead easy one to do on Google. Uh you could find that out like after the straight after this dead easy, I'll show you. So I'm gonna guess Life Path 9, okay? Okay. Leave that there. Right. Okay, um, and um there's a question I asked towards the end, which I just started introducing as well. So the one at the start is who are you? Yeah, which is one to look into. Yeah. Because you know, that was a personality and that's a purpose. Yeah. It's not who you are. Yeah, yeah. Your soul, who you are. Yeah, which is a is a it can be a very it's always nothing's tough, it's just how you decide if it's tough or not. But it's a journey you can you may or may not go on. Um the other question is which equally can be hard, is what do you want?

SPEAKER_01 1:53:40

Again, I mean this is probably not gonna be the right one, but to me it's to it's yeah, it it's to it's to leave to leave some kind of positive impact on this place. And that and and to me that's that's on my mission now to help to help guys deal with their own with their own crap, help them become like the best or the ultimate versions of themselves. And yeah, basically Yeah, just just just to be to leave a legacy of the guy that helped other people become better. I want to be known for being like ambitious but selfless, kind of all at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 1:54:20

If you had if you're when never if always when yeah when you're a multimillionaire uh transformation coach, or yeah, how would you give back so you don't need to you don't need the money anymore? Because I I you are you're doing it money you want money for freedom, yeah, I take it, and to do good with it, not to drive a Lambo. No you want to drive Lambo, what I'm saying, Richard, he really wants to drive a Lambo, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:54:46

But his mate's got a lovely one, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um so what we so let's pretend you've I've already got this in, I've already got this answer in my head. Obviously, my my thing is to is to g is to give back to especially like football academies, I'd love to be able to go in and share my story and my teachings to to kids that obviously you look at the stats that 0.01% make it to professional. So you've got this whole majority that are dealing with rejection, but it's not actually rejection. Because had I've taken a different approach, obviously my life would have been infinitely different. But it's like they you the there's always the positives to take out of that negative. Yes, you may not be playing that level of football at that club, but there are pathways to other things, but you also need to see it as in the habits and the structure and the routine that you've been instilled in in this in this little eco bubble, you are like a million percent ahead of other people your age. Like you've got you've got lasting like good structure and advice there that can see you through like really shitty times. So it's to be able to give back to people that are gonna they are inevitably gonna go through they're gonna face the same rejection that I faced. And it's like the what I'm trying to do now is it especially for younger, younger kids, and if you like talking in in schools and whatnot, it's just to not not do what I did. I'm an example of how shit your life can be for a certain period of time, like a decade. It's a long time. It's a long time. It's a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:10

It wasn't a decade, I don't think it is a decade, I think it's longer than that. Well, it's probably a display. Yeah, you know, like when you met that girl and that girl you didn't gain the experience of women to to identify things, yeah. But then obviously it's almost happening, isn't it? Yeah, it's almost happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:56:22

But yeah, but I think I think in terms of like because I uh when I was at my worst and I was like kind of in denial and whatnot, obviously the other stuff that have happened in the last 11 years, I've been on this. I mean I've been I'm am I am I my ultimate self? You probably never are, there's always always ways to improve. But I think I'm I'm better and I've dealt with it in a far more productive way and not not been like eh, is what it is. Like yeah, I have taken the lessons from it and whatnot, so I have I have learnt, but I think just to be able to give something back from a from an educational point of view, so whether it was something within football, because that's obviously close to my heart and or just lads, young lads in general for the manosphere side of things, I suppose. To give him back. Yeah. Giving back. Yeah, to be able to share, share the story and and give them some some like tangible advice or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:07

Yeah, for free, because the money's been made. You've got to sort yourself out first. I think that's always important. Yeah, you've got yeah, and then and then just give yeah, then just give him back.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:14

Yeah, so whether whether that's you you I I turn my app into like a just a free resource and guide them through You've got an app, have you? Yeah. Yeah, that's that's how I uh uh that's majority of what have what I deliver to my clients is is on the app, but obviously a lot of the other stuff like the the mindset work, the identity work, that has to be done obviously over the phone or in person, depending on where they are. So yeah, you can't really build an app for that because it's too personalized. So but yeah, that's uh Well I'm sure a lot of people will be checking checking in.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:40

I hope so. I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:41

Yeah, so I just it it's again, it's not even the money is important, like anyone that doesn't say that they're not money motivated, I I kind of feel that as a bit of a I I just want to be able to be comfortable. And then and then the rest of that, like it's it's more of the thing that sets me apart, and I hope that does come across, is the fact that I am an empath. Like I I I the guys come to me and the guys that I have now, it's just like and non-judgmental. No, and it it in I don't I don't want to say again like safe space, but guys that have reached out to me, they've followed my stuff, they've seen the podcast, they know what I've been through and that they kind of they trust, they trust in me. And I think it's it's hard to build trust off blokes to be that open from the get-go. And I think that they know there's no judgment, and they know that I've kind of that yeah, the guys that I work with now that the the clients 35 to 55 that seemingly have it all, their biggest fear that they lose it all. I had that in eight days. Like I like the marriage, the house, the business, like so and I'm alright. So you can You'll be alright, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:40

Well, I think I said a post about the other day, actually, where I was on about and uh I said that people, even with a bit of money and stuff, what they do, they think they're happy and comfortable. What they've done is just put a fear barrier around themselves, a protective fear barrier, yeah, because of that scared of change or something happening, and and and it does show, I mean, they've done well to get wherever they've got to, but it does show that that not lack of resolve or lack of it's hard to describe what it means.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:03

They almost go into like safe mode or comfortable mode. That's it. Like, oh god, I don't want anything to get. Yeah, where they they took the risk to get where they need to get to, and then it's like, I'm here now. I don't want to go backwards. I don't want to go back. Handbrake on and get the handbrake on, and that's it, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:13

And then you see a lot of that, and it's a shame because they're not living life. No, it's a differ in a completely different life. It's like you weren't living life for those 10 years. They think they're living life, but they're not, they've just created a safe bubble.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:23

To put it back to like the football analogy, it's the same as if you're like one-nil up and you park the bus and then they and then the other team equalised, and you you can't get that momentum again because you've already you've been.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:32

Yeah, they've got the momentum. Yeah, yeah, because and also the if anything does happen in their world, they're fully wobbled more than more than the the average person because they they're not continually trying to as humans we shouldn't we you should be be creative and explorative and never sit in your comfort zone.

SPEAKER_01 1:59:48

You should always be you should always be trying to push something. Yeah, you never never feel fully when you start to heat hit that like homeostasis part, it's like, no, that's alright, what do I need to do now? Let's keep you young. It's stretch goal. And it keeps you young as well. Yeah, 100%, 100%. Like if you yeah, you've always got that fire in your belly, you've always got that ambition, you've always you're mentally, you're ticking over, you're always planning and prepping, and I think that's that's really important. That's always important. And that's where like most of the guys that come into my world, it's always small, medium, long term, and then a stretch goal. Like the stretch goal is like, I'm never gonna fucking do that. It's like by the time you've hit the small and the medium, you've got that confidence and momentum. You go, you know what? That's happening next year.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:27

But people can't see it. Like, say, like remember the old computer games, if there's a map, and you start off with this guy, and you can only see this bit in front of him, kind of. Yeah, and then the more he moves, it shows a bit more, doesn't it? The more he moves, it shows a bit more. And eventually you're playing the game and you've created this whole world and it's everything. I think that's where by like I'm because they can't see it, they can't see it. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:44

Yeah, so you you open you you guide them, you open their eyes up, and then you're suddenly like, oh fucking hell, how have we got how have we got here? I think that's where the thing I That's a trust thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:00:52

Yes. Let me old John take you up here. Yeah, let's have a look. Exactly that.

SPEAKER_01 2:00:54

And I think this is where by like I'm not obviously a lot of people still pigeonhole me as like a PT, and people, especially this time of year, people reach out and it's like, I've got a holiday, a holiday in like eight weeks, and I need to get ripped. Like I spoke to this guy, and it's possible, and he can do it for this amount. And it's like, what can you do? I was like, nothing. Like I'm not I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I I hate, I hate the photo shoot like things that people do. It's not long lasting, mate.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:16

You're just gonna go on all day looking like that, you drink a load of beer, eat a load of crap with no good habits, come back and you'll be come back in a couple of months, look at yourself when you were ripped and go, I fucking wish I looked like that.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:24

No, because you felt like shit. Yeah, you feel like shit. Because you're doing a crash course instead of doing it properly. Yeah, so it's like you you've not learned, you learn bugger all. You've learned how to not eat. Well done. Like, yeah, as well. But well done, mate. Yeah, so yeah, I'm just I'm very much like I'm I'm lasting habits. I get told I'm too honest because in terms of like my sales, my sales patter, I'm just like ideally six to twelve months. Six to twelve months, and it's like because because you're already a busy guy with a job and a career and a family, you're not gonna be able to just go fucking balls deep and go from naught to a hundred. Like you need to start.

SPEAKER_00 2:01:56

My plan's got to be based on you having three hours free a week. It's gonna take that long.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:01

And that's the fact it can take a couple of weeks for me just to understand their full routine. Because then when I know that, that's where I can kind of go, well, you can you can dial that. Because they're like chimping their brain.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:08

I can't do that then, I can't do that then, I can't do that. It'll be can't, can't, can't, can't, can't, and then you have to small chunk it forward for them.

SPEAKER_01 2:02:13

It's between like four, four to six hours a week. I save on average my like the clients that I work with, and obviously in in four to six hours, you can make a fucking massive difference to your life, the self-improvement journey, because that's half an hour to an hour of exercise, a few days a week if you've not been doing anything. Again, like the nutrition side of things, the the podcast stuff, the identity work that we do together. It's like there's enough time, four to six hours, that's massive. And another thing as well is like the the price, the price of it. Some of the guys I work with are like fucking mental mental millionaires. It's like, how much do you charge an hour for your time? Well, it depends on what I'm doing, or how much do you normally charge? A thousand pounds. Okay, so I'm saving you five thousand pounds a week with the time back, and I'm charging you like 500 pounds a month straight away, mate. Like your ROI is insane. Before we've even done any work, like I should charge more. So, but yeah, so again, it's just but it's just one of them, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:05

They're I I I you know it's like you have And do they all find you for Instagram, these people?

SPEAKER_01 2:03:09

Majority of them do. Obviously, there's uh there's there's some clients I've got, obviously, I'm I'm not I'm initially it was Instagram, now it's kind of like word of mouth, obviously, because obviously these guys have all got the networks, and there's a guy I'm working with at the minute that lives like down south that owns a number of different like he's a um a solicitor, owns a couple of law firms, and I'm doing some corporate work off the back of that, and I'm now working as like one of his like wellness ambassadors with his network of people, so it's obviously it's like yeah, word of mouth is always the best, the best way.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:38

Um going with the flow and taking opportunities like you know, like this.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:41

Yeah, exactly. Like I'm it's uh I don't I don't want to say that I'll come on here just for like free advertising or what not. We have I've asked you, you have we have advertised once.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:48

It's only at the end at the very end of the podcast, I've asked you. It's not here to plug. Yeah, it's putting it's just yeah, putting my putting myself, yeah, putting myself you don't This podcast is all about creating self-awareness in the listener, you through the guest, and that is where this is my story and this is what I'm doing here.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:01

Yeah, and this is and we've drive done a little bit deeper in obviously it's cool because obviously a lot of people see the physique and they go, genetics, like it's really fucking not genetics. It's not it's like and that the the little kids that come up to me in the gym is like I want to get I want to get like that. What's it take? What's it take?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:17

I was like four days a week for the last 11 years, and they're like fucking I don't need it that bad.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:25

It's like oh okay, all right, fair enough. Like, yeah, I'm not yeah, but I'm not the type of person that's like I I don't expect you to do what I do because you've not had my life, you have you don't you don't have my freedom to do it, so yeah, so yeah, it's just like it's your level, it's making sure that every day you're a little bit better how you were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:43

Um James, we've got to close this podcast, or Rich is gonna shout at me. I know he's gonna shout at me. It should be an hour, you know. Is it? It should be. Sorry, Rich. I can't wait for our one four hours. Um well you see how it can easily carry on for another time, couldn't it? Yeah, yeah, I'm enjoying it, you're enjoying it, could it, but we can't. I just can't. Yeah. So is there anything that with that you're thinking you went, oh I didn't get to say that. You want to just literally quickly want to close it on, or are you happy?

SPEAKER_01 2:05:09

No, mate. That's it that's it. Yeah, like a bit of a bit of story and bit of what I do now.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:13

So yeah, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:05:14

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:14

Thank you so much. No, mate. Thank you very much very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.