Get Paid For Your Data | EP 47

Talking:

• Trump lifting Russian oil sanctions
• HYPE ripping past $37
• Bittensor and TAO
• Kled’s $5.5M seed round

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Good afternoon. Welcome. Risk on episode 47. Sponsored by FOMO, Best Multi-Chain Trading Experience of the Game. Go uh download it today. Promo code Risk On, 10% off all of your trading fees. Um we are live without our boy Sat Stats, who um we hope is okay, uh, but has gone missing from us. So you just got Swizzle and I. Um, I I I I might spread rumors that bad things have happened to him and you know, maybe create a little drama, but I actually hope that doesn't come true. So uh he's probably just sleeping. Yeah, nor stats.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Normally, uh normally spreading the rumors and giving him some shit for not showing up to the stream would be all in good fun, but given the fact of what we've been talking about with his situation the last couple weeks, it's not ideal. Um because he is in fact still in Dubai. Um and uh, you know, he's he's lost power a couple times. His gym was bombed. His gym was hit by a bomb uh while he was on the way to the gym, I think. So um, yeah, he may show up here or he may not. He the guy does have some weird uh sleeping hours, so I don't think it matters what time it is in Dubai. Uh he's a gamer, after all, he's an esports guy. So yeah, the last I heard from Sats was eight hours ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

And that's that's last proof of life for Sats.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Which was well, I want to say I was talking to him when it was like 3 a.m. his time. So it's very possible the guy just doesn't know what hemisphere he's on. He might pop up midstream here.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

So if he pops up midstream, that would be great. But uh yeah, we've got up today. Um, no stats. We do have Avi Patel from CLED, uh, which will be fun. He's joining us in 15, 20 minutes or so. Um, so we'll just shoot the shit on some other stuff until Avi joins us. Um, but yeah, uh Swizzle Bitcoin and majors look okay. Sailor bought like so much yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I don't know if how much did he buy? What's what was the report on that? Do we have that? It's it's over a billion. I feel like there's uh you can get, I don't know if it actually is it's probably no noise, no signal at all, but like you, you know, usually when conditions are really bad, you get uh he's always buying no matter what, but some people randomly have the the weekend where it's like Sailor bought like 85 million in Bitcoin, which that's a lot, but you look at that and you're like, man, if he's not buying over a billion, then we're in trouble right now. Uh, because it seems like the guy's constantly working to prop this thing up. Uh so we're back in the billions. That means things are going well. A lot of it, there's been a lot of talk about that strc. I don't know how to pronounce it. Uh like basically it's like this buyback mechanism they have. Um we should probably I'm not gonna try to talk like I know too much about it right now, but apparently this is how they are creating uh the liquidity to buy more Bitcoin right now, is this S talk STRC mechanism. Um and it is supposedly working if he's back in the billions on the buys here.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah, I saw a bunch of people saying this is like prime time to short it. Um, but then you know, ripped up today. Pop, I think I think we had 73 and a half today or so. Um now we're retracing, we hit some resistance, but we'll see. You know, majors look kind of okay, all things considered. Hype is fucking cruising past 37. We saw Arthur, Arthur, who famously bullposted hype and then sold it all right afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Now writing an article saying, but he just bullposted again and it doesn't look like he sold after this chill. So it's gonna hold a little longer this time. No said$150.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

No, I think hype is really, you know, this oil, this war has been very good for hyperliquid. People are like seeing real utility in it. Like you want 24-7 trading, uh, permissionless markets on things you can trade all the time or in real time, on especially on weekends when markets are closed, and hype is filling that gap. The volume it's doing is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I think it's really interesting, actually. Um, you know, the only thing we could find, we were trying to pull up some like the data, especially like weekend data, because that's I feel like this fundamental narrative shift is like, well, hype is really starting to break through that bubble of like, you know, whoever, if like some type of a global event happens, and I think that's why this like hype is kind of an eye-opening thing right now when the war hit and oil prices are going crazy. First it was gold and all this speculatory retail trading happening on the weekend, and now it's oil happening on the weekend. It's like if you really want to have exposure to something, it almost doesn't matter what ends up happening, but it's like, okay, clearly when markets are closed, hype is where you're starting to see a lot more people, like you're starting to see institutional. I think Bloomberg, like uh like hype derivatives data and everything on news outlets. So it's like it's starting to become a known thing that if you want to get access to trading these markets on the weekends, you go to hype. And so, you know, obviously it's crushing Coinbase here. So look at that. That's crazy. We we bring this up because like Coinbase is trying to make a push on RDB RWAs and like hype is just eating their lunch. Um, but it's interesting because it's like, you know, oh, I think this was over the weekend on the uh this tweet, and so you know, roughly a billion dollars of volume down like a ton in comparison to the CME is gonna do like you know 200 billion or something like that, uh, comparatively, but like it does matter because that if if it's doing this volume when the weekends are closed, or when the markets are closed, like you know, this is kind of a new and hype is clearly at the forefront of it. We all we talked about all these competitors, lighter, wanting to get involved, drift on Solana, Aster. I don't think any of them are relevant, right? It's kind of just a hype show.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Well, I think what happens is you capture volume. Why the fuck else are you gonna trade anywhere else? You want to trade the most liquid platform, right? Like as a user, I have no interest in going to trade on Coinbase with 75k in volume. We're going to lighter or Aster with inferior trading experiences. I want to go where the volume is, and like I want to go where I'm gonna get the best, I'm gonna get the best fills, um, and be able to trade the most size. And everyone is gonna aggregate to that one place. We're not gonna like have like fragmented liquidity. Um, it just doesn't make any sense. So somebody's gonna win, and it seems like hype is winning, and uh that value should accrue back to the token.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Yeah, and I think that happened um it's almost like you know, that I think you still need to be careful on like short-term price action because you know this stuff is very momentum driven, and like we're not in a super high liquid inflation right now, but um I I think this is like a real like this is a real narrative that you can latch. And there's I I think it's interesting because like there's so many reasons why you could say, oh, well, hype is gonna, they don't have a moat because of this, you know, someone else is gonna overtake token I could tokenized equities, you know, not legal in the US. What happened? Like, there's all these reasons that are fair to criticize it. Yeah, but man, doesn't lie. And like the direction of the volume doesn't lie. And like this thing is picking up momentum, it's not losing it, it's not getting fragmented by competitors. So, you know, fine to make all those theoretical articles or are like arguments, but until proven otherwise, I'm gonna f like I'm happy following the momentum in comparison to any other asset, like this is like the kind of start of the crypto world right now, because it's clearly a break that's getting more and more attention.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah, yeah, definitely. But to kind of piggyback up what you said, like it's clearly riding the momentum of like, oh, it's got this obvious use case of oil and whatever. You know, if if if we continue if this war continues on and oil prices are still wild, you know, then this narrative can continue on. But if this ends sooner rather than later, um and that narrative kind of goes into the background, then you might you know see some down, some some down some uh downward price action. But in the short term, you know, and also the long term, it shows a serious use case for the product for sure demand and demand that like you know, I think is something that they've been striving to like this this would be like their niche, right? So this is really cool to see and really great for crypto. Like, I'm really happy we have this happening, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

I think if you're a hype bull, what you want to see is like, okay, it's obviously in the spotlight because of this, like the the geopolitical turmoil and everything, but what you want to see is like yes, eventually the oil stuff is gonna die down. Like this clearly has given DGens access, retail access to like you know, like getting access and exposure to these markets. It was gold, it was silver, it those things are I'm not saying they were going away. Now it's oil. I think the question is will there continue to be the next thing if when another big event happens, and we have no way to predict what that is, is it car, is it you know, like some random mass, you know, thing that we can't now? Um, is the next thing always gonna be on hyper liquid? And that's the if that's true, then you know, there's additional catalysts beyond what happens here. Um so I mean, we're we're saying stuff that's pretty obvious like to everyone that's paying attention. Like, this is why people have been excited about hype for a while, but it's cool because it's coming true.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Sats has just surfaced, guys. He was sleeping. He fucked up the time zones. So we really should have spread rumors. I should have spread rumors that this building was bothered.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Now I don't feel bad. I would I we should have it.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I should have gone harder, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Clickbait. We didn't even go for it. We really could have had click.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

We didn't even go for it. We we're we're we're too good of people to to to do that. But Sats will be here in a minute. Uh apparently they don't have daylight savings time anywhere else in the world but here, so for us, it's he thinks it's 1120, but it's actually 1220. So uh even though we got it right on Tuesday, which is incredible that he he like did it properly three days ago and then today he got it wrong, but you know, we'll we'll we'll let him we'll let him tell us how he makes a mistake like that. Um in another note of idiotic behavior, I can't believe this guy swapped 50 mil of USDT for 36k lava on mobile. Did you see that, Swizzle?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

I did. I saw a bunch of stuff circulating around it, and I have no idea like what did you see? Someone was saying that like uh it accused it of being money laundering, an obvious money laundering tactic, in which case you're los the guy would have lost like 80% of whatever. Yeah, that's not a monitor. It doesn't seem like an efficient way to launder money.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

No, that's not a laundry. I I I I I I think they know who it was. It was a fund manager who had like half a billion or something on channel.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Oh, so he like they found the guy and it's actually it was a pure fuck up.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Somebody was trading on mobile and pressed the uh accept slippage button and you got MEV.eth.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Who trades$50 million on mobile using sushi swap though?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

It was cow swap. It doesn't don't get don't get your fucking animals wrong.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Um swap, my bad, my bad, my bad, my bad.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

I mean, who does it? I mean, I've done some dumb things on mobile. I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

So this I'm not gonna have the same reaction as yeah. It's hard to feel bad. It's like, dude, what the fuck are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Yeah, it's hard to feel bad. It's really stupid, but I think the big thing for me is like we're all touting like crypto as being the future of finance, right? And if you can like like evaporate 50 million in thin air, then you can't like get that money back because you clicked the wrong fucking button. Like, that's who's gonna take this industry seriously? Like from any risk management point of view.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

People are focused on the platform.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

No, but like people are gonna make errors, right? Like you need to figure out a solution where there needs to be a like like no bank is gonna be like, yep, you know what, we're gonna be all on on crypto because our employee is somewhere making$20 an hour can click a button incorrectly. Yeah, and we can evaporate$50 million. So we can never get it back.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

It is a tough, it's a tough thing though, right? Because it's decentralized finance is the whole like you have control over what you do. So if you centralize it and okay, we can we can reverse this. Let's freeze the transaction, send it back to you, then that's not that's not crypto anymore. You know, like I guess it can be frozen and and and changed. Like I I would I would love to know.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Did that I imagine when you do something like that, you have warnings pop up and all that stuff, or you have warnings saying like slippage, this is more slippage than usual. Do you accept this risk? Um, but that's the only warning you get. You get one warning. You hit swap and it says, Are you sure you want to do this? And then you say, Yep, and then you go for it. Yeah, obviously, like it's not great.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

I just I'm I'm struggling, I understand that's been the sentiment. I'm like struggling to get if the let's all pile up and say this is a fault of crypto because this guy did that. This guy's an idiot. Is that really this is how we're gonna we're gonna pile onto it? I don't know. He's alive, he's a little slumber.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Yeah, absolute disaster, man. I had alarm set, I didn't realize the clocks went back. I've been trying to get in a slight bit of sleep. Um, I haven't slept in a long time here, but uh yeah, no, my bad, folks. My bad.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

No, it's all good. It's it's all good, and the best part about it is that you got it right on Tuesday and wrong three days later.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

Yeah, no, no, the clocks went back in between this part.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

No, they didn't.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yeah, they did. For us, I think. No, Henry, please. Henry, please, come on.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

We we had the same conversation with Henry on Tuesday because he was like, Why are we starting earlier than usual? And Swizzle and I were like, Well, we have this stupid thing called daylight savings time here. And you were like there, like, oh yeah, yeah, Henry, you fucking idiot.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Wait, how is how is how does hen how does our producer fix this problem for you, Sats?

SPEAKER_02 14:33

Uh I don't know. He verifies that the clocks went back. Oh fuck, man, that's it's all good.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

We got you here now. We got you here before Audi came on. Yeah, we're getting Audi on in like five minutes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

We're almost there. Um, but I'm glad to have you back, Sats. I know you've had a tough few days. Uh, you know, between being in a war zone and work stuff, I've imagined, you know, life's been tough. So I'm not I'm gonna cut I'm gonna cut you some slack.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Thank you guys. Thank you guys. Narely got kicked off the risk on podcast. Uh Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Imagine imagine having to tell like your family that not only are you an unemployed podcaster, but then you got fired from being an unemployed podcaster.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Fired from the unemployed podcast. It's a fucking disaster. And bombed, and bombed, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

And you got your domain taken. Domain taken, just car crash for a week. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Sats, do do one thing for us. We need to give us a repost on your uh timeline because I didn't realize how bad our our listener count hurt without without the head of the fun on there.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Yeah, sorry. No, I've I'm back. Uh it's all retweeted. I'm back like I never left. No one would ever know. I've uh been listening for the past uh first 20 minutes of the show.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

That's a tech count or the listener count here now.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Anyone I think CT is completely dead. I think so as well. It's uh it's rough as toast out there at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

What is like your most active group chat doing right now? Are they like talking or trading?

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Like, you know, my most active group chat is Jing's layer.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah, it's mine too. By a mile.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yeah, by a long shot. And uh like what are they doing in there? They're playing Arc Raiders.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Um they're jerking each other off over 2x moves from 100k to 200k.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah, yeah, that's that's not true.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

I feel like they're that's how that's how you pass time. That's how you pass time in the bear, right? They're just yeah, they're just still occupied.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

People are sending meme coins right now in that chat saying like like what do you think about it? It'll be at like a buck 70, and I'm like, dude, I'm not even gonna think about it. I don't know. I don't think about it. I don't think about it.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

I'm never gonna think about that.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

I'm never thinking about that point. I've been thinking about I'm not thinking about this at all right now.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Um, yeah, it's a bit crazy, and that's even coming from someone who works at a launch pad like uh it's dire out there.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

People have been coming for you on the timeline. We got this guy, Rebel City, or whatever his name is. Um, he created my favorite um line of the year, which I'm not gonna say on air because it has a bunch of bad words in it. Um, but uh it made me laugh a lot.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I like that line. Uh image saved. Image saved.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

I posted it the other day.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yep. Partially correct, maybe on his behalf, um, especially of uh recent events, but you know that's uh that's a launch pad for you. Um that's the way the game goes. I guess we've got to speak about what happened.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Um so for those who don't know, the the the box was great pain on your face having to yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

It isn't great. We haven't posted a post mortem yet, so I won't go into too much detail, but basically we we had uh we had an oopsie with our domain. An oopsie. We had an oopsie with the domain, and yeah, a few people got a few people lost some funds. Um we're planning on making them them them people whole once we verify exactly how much uh was lost. I think it was around in our in our in our calculations right now, it was around 20k. There were some people on the timeline saying, Oh my god, bong fan, I've lost$150,000. I doubt yeah, I doubt that was true just by from looking on chain. Um it looks like the total loss was around 20k.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

That's actually way less bad than I expected. Basically, I didn't even know what really happened, but I saw Tom panicked tweeting, as he should, like he was trying to spread the word. Tom and Lexapro chimed in really yeah, it was like all hands on deck, like hey, like you know, lost some control of something we should have some control over. And I was like, man, but the thing is, I don't directly so if you're trading on a terminal or whatever, like you're not actually interfacing. I'm a little interfacing with the actual launch pad. So how much is it it must be how people actually interface directly with the launch pad or at least don't have much funds on there to get drained? Like 20k is nothing uh in the grand scheme of things.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Yeah, I think it was it's it's more it's more deployers who who suffered. Um the the fault the guys trading on terminals didn't get affected at all. It was more people deploying straight through the UI, which isn't that many people nowadays. Um so yeah, so the deployers who farm people couldn't make money. You know, I don't want to say I don't want to say that.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

All right, I'm gonna take back the word. I'll I I I I think I think farming, I think deploying needs the rebrand, and I think you're the guy for the job sets. You think I'm the guy for the job?

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Thank God, thank god.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

All right, we got Avi joining the show quickly. Thank you, Avi. Thank you. Funk fun. We'll be back.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Well timed that's well timed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Um, let's go. Uh Avi Patel here from CLED. Are are we gonna play the video first? How are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Yeah, let's let's get him on. Let's get him on. We'll do we'll do a quick intro. Uh, welcome him to the stream, and then uh we'll fire up the video. Um, I heard Wood hasn't even seen it. So what's up, Bobby? It's the first time. How's it going? How are we doing, man?

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Good. Out of bed, literally in my bedroom right now, but uh yeah, feeling good. Nice, got the green screen going. We love that. That's just the color of my room. We call it the the puke room, but uh yeah. I called it this way when I was like what like 67 years old or something. I don't even know.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Uh yeah after a wallpaper, holy shit, bro.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

It's uh you got a wink asleep in there.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Fucking no, no, no. I uh yeah, I'm I'm as I'm full ADHD now in this room. Like at all.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

That's why that's why he's always shipping though. That's why he's always working, is because he can't fucking sleep.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

I never better than in this room. Also, I don't know why, but like this like it's a it's a it's like a lucky color. I don't I don't know. I do good in this room better than anywhere else.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah, I'm in the process of trying to figure out paint colors for a new house, and that color just never even crossed my mind. Yeah, I mean where you saw that color. What color that is who found it?

SPEAKER_03 21:26

Do not let it cross your mind. Yeah, this is the last thing you want to paint your own.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah, well, it's good. We should put it in Sats's room. Sats overslept the podcast by 20 minutes, so he's Sats isn't really paid to do this, but we were considering firing him anyways for it. Uh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

On the chopping block, on the chopping block now. Yeah, um, I've tried to use the out of the daylight savings, didn't work because our producers also also doing that, and it happened last week, so I can have no out.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Yeah, disaster. And then all right, here's what we're gonna do, guys. Avi, thank you. Thank you for coming on, man. Um, we're gonna talk about Clett a little bit. I figure let's start by you guys had a nice little promo video that came out, a little ad. So we're gonna roll the film on that, and then we'll uh we'll get into it from there. Um, but I want people to watch this. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Maria, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Although we I thought we were going for number two.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

It was so good we had to watch it again.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Um Academy Award.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

That's that's some good production value right there.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

By the way, like just so everyone knows, Andy Folio, look him up. He's the greatest of all time, makes all of our stuff, will continue to make all of our stuff. One of these days, he's gonna get hit with a million dollar budget from Avi Patel, and I'm gonna tell him to go wild. But this guy is actually the like one of the greatest directors of all time. Uh, give him anything, anything to work with. He will he will pull something.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

I did actually like as soon as I saw the video, I scrolled down in the in the comments. I was like, oh, that who is the guy who made this? And I yeah, I follow I followed him on Twitter. I was like, whenever we do something at risk on, like, I was like, damn, we've got to use this guy. This guy's really fucking good.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah, really good.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

Genuinely.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

He did the WAP one as well, the one we just posted.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

So I saw that. That was good too. That was really good.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Bro, it must have been a crazy few weeks um leading into that announcement. How's it been? It's been good.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

I uh yeah, it was like we raised for like a month and a half. Um uh we actually, I mean, after that poster, we just raised some more money. So we actually raised 1.5 million the last like uh two days, so uh uh a little bit more than what we had. But um, yeah, I uh uh it was just a bunch of raising work after we had this like pretty viral post for like a month. Um and then after that, it was a month of just like announcement planning, uh like a little bit of team hiring infrastructure and a lot of development work on the app that we we had to push out for like fraud detection and support systems, things that are necessary for the traction we were inevitable to get. So we've had a lot of signups in the last in the last uh two days. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

How's how's that part been for you? Like, I feel like when a lot of people are founders early on, especially young founders like yourself, like they don't realize how much of the job becomes the fundraising part, and it's like consume, you know, in like pockets, and then you you get it, and then you can go back to the work and everything, but like it can consume you. Like, did you enjoy that process? Or is it like you know, some people love that part, some people are like, Man, I don't really want to do this at all. Yeah, um, what was it like for you?

SPEAKER_03 25:56

It's very hard for me to raise for like four years, basically. Um, or like when I was building, um, like at least when the music licensing company, I mean, that is music, so it's objectively harder. But um, a couple other companies, like it was it was hard. Um, so uh it was refreshing to know that like I never have to turn down capital before. I was used to just like always saying yes to everyone. Um and uh like there was so much inbound that I actually had to say no to people, which is something that I've never done before. Um, it made my life easier, definitely, but at the same time, like uh this was like the one moment. Uh, if we didn't pull it off in this one moment, um, I don't even know like what the business would look like. That like if it was like make or break almost, like I had to use that to to um to actually get the fundraise closed, that momentum. Um, so uh a lot of like full days of zero sleep and kind of just like all due diligence work and managing like a bunch of people. I also didn't get all the money from one person, um, meaning that uh yeah, I had to quite literally go to hundreds of people, talk to all of them, do DD with a ton of people, um, which I think is the better way to go about it. Because one person can help your business, maybe 50-50 chance that they can. It's usually coming from a fund. Um, but the people that we brought into the round, that they're all very, very helpful, um, like incredibly helpful and all very good people. Like we we never said yes to a single ounce of capital from someone that we thought was um mischievous or questionable intentions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Nice. So I I guess let's backtrack for a second because so I don't know how much you know or seen the show, but like for content, this is primarily like a crypto native audience that we have, listeners-wise, like a lot of people that are trading markets, you know, um, and they're very in tune with like what's going on in the crypto AI space. Like, not necessarily there's some crop, there's obviously crossover, but like you have a you have a background here where they like people know you from the Ben Pasternak launch coin believe drama, which we'll we can get to that part later. Uh hopefully. I don't, you know, we don't want to put you back into I had a feeling I had a feeling you're one Ben Pasternak hater.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

I literally just said this 10 minutes ago too. Uh D1B Ben Pasternak hater. So happy.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

So let's go let's put that on hold. We're gonna um we're gonna we're gonna come back to that. So we'll put a pin in it. But um for our listeners like who who know about the CLED token, but they don't really know what CLED is. I feel like there's a lot of people who probably even traded the token, and now like you know, things went quiet for a little bit, and now like you guys are making a big push. You've grown the user base a ton. For those who don't know what is CLED, give us like the breakdown and like um basically like what are you building and why is it relevant?

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah, um, I'm happy to. So CLED is the first human data marketplace. We let anyone upload their personal data and get paid for it. Um, the way you can think about this is that every AI model, robotics company, and uh foundation model or anything in automation uh requires a vast amount of two things. It's one compute, like NVIDIA's big thing, and two, it's data. That that's the only way AI improves across the board. The data part of this, for the longest time, has just been scraping the internet. Like you'll just go online, get a bunch of images and videos online, go train your model off the stuff that's public. Um, in very recent times, like in probably the last two years, um, there's two issues with that. One, it's licensing. Uh, people are getting sued left and right for stealing data, and uh, it's almost common practice now to legally license it. Um, and two, even if you want to pretend that that argument's uh false, uh, two is that the internet has been completely exhausted. All the top models are completely out of stuff from the internet to generally train off of to get marginal improvements. They need very specific niche human data that's private to go uh to go build these companies. I I think Larry Ellison said it best like very recently as well. Um, he uh he he said, like, yeah, the the next wave and the next improvements of these foundation models is going to come from private data sets, right? Like stuff that's not off the internet. So CLED is basically that. We let you upload anything off your camera roll, file folder, whatever it is, to go train these models. It could be general stuff, but more importantly, we let you upload very specific things that are direct requests from these large labs um to go train these models. And that can be something as simple as taking out a video of you taking out the trash, and that's training like the next humanoid robot, right? Or it could be um a picture of your tax form, right? And and we'll anonymize that. And that's good for um the tax agents that are coming out, or like um legal communications with your lawyer, so you can figure out how it's best to communicate with the with the law uh with a law corresponder, right? So so there's a ton of different um use cases, and I'd say there's literally millions and millions of use cases uh on types of data that's important for these labs, and it's the biggest spend these labs have. They have uh quite literally trillions across the board of spend um in data purchasing, and it's only going to grow from now on, right? Um so our app lets you go on similar to what you just saw in the video and upload literally anything, especially the stuff that we're asking from you, um, to get paid for that data instead of getting it stolen from you and in turn train these models, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Yeah, man, it's uh bro, you've been through a crazy journey, but I I think, yeah, like the the app is also obviously in a good place now. But how did you end up at this idea? Like, was this something did CLED originate from this idea, or did it sort of evolve as time goes on? Because I hear a lot from founders is you know, they start with one idea and then it finishes like the the initial that the end product finishes in a completely different space. Is that sort of what happened?

SPEAKER_03 31:35

I I'll give you so like it started from inspiration from something and then it evolved once. So the inspiration was like the last uh four years or like three years now before before this, before CLED. Um, for three years, I was building the first music licensing marketplace. We basically let any artist list up licenses for their content, and then if you're like Netflix or Hulu, for example, you want to buy the licenses for that, you can go license that content. Um, it was very manual, very tedious. It was in the music industry. I had basically no capital. I had to go like message artists and record labels while we want to convince them to list up their content. I did a very good job of that. I became really good at licensing. I developed a lot of relationships with top rights holders and TV organizations, etc., and big content critters. Um and we actually launched that marketplace like late 2024, um, grew it uh pretty substantially for a bit, and then the record labels were just asking for way too much money to keep the licenses on the marketplace. So we we were like, okay, we need to pivot into a different licensing type, but this just simply is not going to be sustainable. Um so uh at the time, like Suno, Udio, and these like big uh music AI companies were actually coming to us asking for training data. They wanted the data that we had for the music that we had the licenses for um to then train their their foundation models. So I thought AI training licenses were very interesting, and and like licensing is my my my number one thing. It's like the best thing I'm at, right? Um so I uh I completely pivoted the business and uh we started at first basically going to all the production companies um and rights holders that we knew and just signing exclusive rights for their content. I basically got the exclusive rights for like uh one of the biggest drone catalogs in the United States. I got like uh exclusive rights for uh like uh patient medical records, for example, that we'd anonymize and then um give to like healthcare companies that would then improve healthcare models, right? Um I also got like um you know military footage, like I got like some like very high-level IP like Bugs Bunny, Tom and Jerry, like uh Looney Tunes, Incredible Hulk um episodes from these um from some holdings companies. Um and then the intention was to sell these those licenses to these AI companies and just become this broker, right? No product, no tech, nothing. Um one day I was like, okay, this is a terrible business, it's just super boring. I I I was like, I literally might kill myself if I have to do this all the time. Um you can't build a generational company becoming sales. Then again, Mercore did it, and Mercore's awesome. It's like a huge logistical operation that like God knows how they pulled it off, but it's like a massive sales company. It's every day like going out gathering these like expert labelers and doing like just data sales, but there's no like a real front-facing product for Mercore other than maybe their recruiting platform, right? So I was like, okay, instead of gathering this data from enterprises like manually, how about we build an app that lets anyone upload it um from their home? Um, and uh uh it was great in concept, but in practice it's similar to Uber, where like you're just burning money um to take out people at the start to incentivize them to use the platform. And the second problem is I had no cash. So I was like, what am I doing here? Like I have literally no money. How are we gonna like get this up and running? Um, and uh uh you know I uh I hate Ben Pasnak for all it's worth, but the one thing that he did right was he he actually did start Believe, and yes, almost every project on there is a complete rug and went straight to zero. And same thing for Believe, but uh at least we came out of it. Um and uh yeah, we launched a uh a coin on uh on Ben's platform. Um it picked up a lot of traction very, very fast. Um we made a ton of money from fees, uh, which we used to also uh pump rewards users um as well as the the labs that were um paying us. Like we we we did sell like seven figures worth of data um in in in 2025, but um yeah, like that that was all sent out to users basically. We burned it all. Um and uh we were at this point where like we finally had the app in a very comfortable spot with like a big enough whitelist um and uh good fraud detection, like generally built out good tech, um a lot of traction, public following, a lot of impression. We did like 200 million impressions or something on Twitter combined across all posts mentioning CLED. Um and uh yeah, then then we launched the app without any wait beta list, and that's when the floodgates opened. Uh we hit like number one of the charts in like four different countries, um, and uh almost everyone was using the app um left and right. Like we I think that we might have every iPhone in Malaysia with the CLED app on there. We're not even Android yet. So when we launch Android, we'll get 10 million users in the first day, but um, we started like even trending and like we were top 10 in France. France hates AI. I don't even know how that happened. Um like United States is like the third most downloaded country, for example. So um yeah it's our doing very well. And uh again, I just couldn't keep up with the pace and like the demand um uh or the supply. Uh like we just didn't have we were gonna burn out of cash if this many people kept on signing up. Um we were getting like five million uploads a day, people uploading more to CLED than they're uploading onto any social media platform combined per user. Um, and uh that's only gonna grow more and more. When we hit a million users, we'll have 40 million uploads a day of like user-generated content. That's all unique, right? So I put this post up uh around two months ago, like half halfway through January, um, showing off some of the data we had with the intention of like, okay, maybe some labs see this and like I get some inbound um and we get like like millions and millions of dollars in contracts. And uh uh God knows why, but that worked. And uh the post went very viral and uh pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

So it was like a few million views or something, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:59

Yeah, like 4.4 million views. Every AI lab on the planet, like the founders fall, like Mid Journey, like DoorDash team, Waymo, like all of them like followed me. Um a lot invests in the company as well. And we within like quite literally 48 hours, we had like 30 million plus in pipeline um from labs. One of them was a 20 million dollar contract, mind you. So that filled up a chunk of it. But uh, yeah, uh, it's all stuff that we're we're finalizing the closing of right now, and it's all like based off this thing that like we need to get fraud detection right. We need to make sure that the content that's coming through our pipeline is very clean, and we need to raise money to then go have the engineering team to build this like massive fraud detection um overhaul. So it's exactly what we did. I like piggybacked off the back of that momentum, and uh like every investor already reached out to me after that post went up. So um raised money, and and now we're on this like two-month, three-month tear for fraud detection.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

So, what's the biggest? So now all of a sudden, you guys all big AI labs and everything, people are interested, they know the bubble you were in, everyone knows what Kluc led is. What what's the remaining bottlenecks? Like, what do you guys need to happen here to to hit like explosive growth? Like to have that kind of moment where it becomes bigger.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

Yeah, I mean, we have like a lot of contracts we can put we're putting into the app like right now. Like our version three updates coming out very soon, and that's that'll have like a lot of these contracts in there too. Um, and they're already a ton in the special tasks tab um that we're actually pursuing as well. So um, but the the very big ones um require a ton of fraud detection work on our end. That just means like um we've already solved out for the most part the basic level stuff, like internet plagiarism checks, like duplicate detection checks, like uh making sure users aren't uploading AI synthetic data and and like stuff that's not original. Like we filter all that out already. The the parts that are important now is that let's say the task is take a video of you take it out the trash, but the task requirements are like you there needs to be two hands in the video at all times. That means that every pixel has to be scanned to make sure that there's two hands in the video at all times, and you have to do that. That's not hard in itself, that's actually pretty easy. The hard part is doing it fast across millions of uploads every single day, all day long, and then rejecting the bad stuff. So that is the actual bottleneck, doing that across the hundreds of hundreds of tasks that we've gotten sent to us by labs. Um, and then once that's all done and built out, um, you'll hopefully have like a general ML where it'll work across any new tasks that comes up, and we can just stick these tasks into the app and we'll unlock all this this like massive revenue stream um from the contracts that have been sent to us. Um so that's like the big thing right now. We're really just focused on the on like this fraud work. Um and uh if we get it right, like we're in a really, really good spot. Like I think we'll probably hit that like 50 mil error goal, um, at least with the pipeline we have right now.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Amazing. Um, all right. So let's you guys are in a really good spot right now. You're kind of getting close to hitting a breakout point. Let's let's rewind, let's go back in time. And not too long ago, you guys, I mean, you were hitting the company, you're trying to figure out how to actually raise any meaning capital. Like, really, you're trying to get this thing started and off the ground. Yeah, we're curious at some somehow, some way, your cross path, your cross your paths cross with Ben Pasternak. I don't know what the relationship was, but like were you were you involved in any way or knowledgeable about how crypto worked and funding through that? Or like can can you walk us through like how did it actually happen where we ended up launching on this platform specifically? It was good that came out of it, but yeah, a lot of shit too.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yeah, you you you joined us, and once you get here, you can't fucking leave. I mean I was it was I mean, bro, I want to kill myself.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

It was bad, but um, yeah. I mean, a friend of mine made an intro to Ben because he he was like, Okay, Ben's building something cool. He was an investor in his company as well, so he just made the introduction. Ben was like, all right, bro, you're going to like um like there's a lot of people making like tons of cash here, like like these projects are making this much in fees. I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool. Like these projects seem kind of shit. Like, I would outclass them in a millisecond. Um, and uh I was like, okay, fuck it. If people are like, if this is kind of like a go fund me type of thing, like why not? Like, I I'd rather do that than dilute money from investors, anyways, um, that like probably don't want to even invest in the company. Um, and uh yeah, I was just like, okay, screw it, let's like launch this thing. And then uh like first day, like Ben accidentally launches two coins for the fucking thing. Uh and then I get like my phone number leaked the same like the second after that, and then everything blows up, and like my Twitter gets hacked the next day, and like everyone's spamming me, like saying I like egregious shit, and Ben is out here like like unicorn princess land, like barely responding to my shit after it happened, and then like putting Imran Khan or whatever his name is on a on like a podcast and we'd like make it better, and like writing one tweet as like an apology. So, like, bro, I don't fucking know. It's it is what it is. I had to fight through a lot of FUD because of that for months and months on end. Um, it doesn't help that half a CT hates Indian people, so I have to do the I'll go battle already, I'll go battle already.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

You're like, fuck, bro. Wait, so so here's here's the interesting thing though, because like this has I mean, this aspect of it is not a fully unique story. There's a lot of people who get pulled into it, and then they're like, What the fuck did I just get myself involved in? And then they completely remove themselves. They're like, I don't have anything to do with crypto, I don't have anything to do with this token, and they washed their hands. But you didn't really do that, you kind of leaned into it and like you've embraced this. They call it the CLED army, like yeah, you know, like so. What made you decide to like stay around and actually try to sound like you're trying to have like good moral fiber?

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Like, I mean, fuck, bro. Like, someone's like put betting real money on you, like like maybe it's a trauma response. Maybe, maybe it's literally just trauma. Maybe it's me like literally not being able to fundraise and like like really treating like every dollar with care. Um, but uh if you bet on me, like I have like kind of a moral obligation to like support you, like make you feel good, and like actually meaningfully showcase that I'm like working towards the same goals that you have. Um, so like I just didn't want to like fuck people over, and that was really it. Um there's a lot of hard decisions to be made like during that path, like that that like may in the short term have like um not benefited token holders, but like clearly now in the long run have. But um I like overall objective, which is why I've never left, regardless of how many people have told me, like, hey, like you just made a ton of money, just like get the fuck out of here and just go do your thing now. Um, I would never do that, like even if it's not beneficial for the business, like it just it like does doesn't make any moral sense. And at the end of the day, like Ben P is never gonna make another good company in his life. Um, because he's Ben P.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Ben P, Ben P made up. Ben P, Ben P has gotta be the one of the biggest winners of the cycle, I would argue.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yeah, Benny P may have made millions of dollars, right? But um, no one will ever remember his name, and that's all that really matters. That's true. So yeah, I think I think look, he made it, he may have made millions of dollars, but like he's never gonna make the next Uber or anything else like that. Because like, look, if you fuck over people like that at a high enough level, your name is just fucked for time, and uh that matters, but like karma's a real thing, and like I'm not trying to deal with it. Like, I want to make like a generational company, I want my name to like be remembered for all of time, and I'm not trying to be Ben Pasternack.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

So, yeah. I think I think I think that's a good mentality. I feel like you've really you you have really been through it. You've probably had uh a tough, a tough journey as it goes uh for founders. Um but in terms of like when you launched the token, obviously you didn't really know what you're getting into. Now you're a bit more educated, um, and that obviously brings into the question the idea of tokenized equity. What is your sort of take on that? Do you think it can work? Um, and do you think it's a future sort of play?

SPEAKER_03 45:25

So we um I think before when things were unclear and like we were all just figuring out like the legal terminology and everything, we were like still saying tokenize equity. What 3D is doing is not tokenize equity. Um, it's like token does not equal equity. Let me make that very, very, very clear to anyone watching. Um, we're not getting into securities territory. We have no intention to. Uh, we actually are like actively working with the SEC on trying to make things work here. But um, and by the way, this is out of goodwill. Like every person in our entire network and circle is saying don't do tokenized equity, quote unquote. Um, it's it even though it's not that, but um, they're saying like don't even give any percentage token holders, like let this be a meme coin, just let it fly. I think like the whole point here is to like make these assets like not like just like just not fuck people over. Like, what happens if I exit my company? Like people just get screwed, like that that sucks. Like uh people want to feel like they're part of the journey and like feel like they're involved with a company. And um, like we did a complete fare launch and and uh like we barely own any supply um to begin with, and um like beyond the stuff that we've just bought back, um like we've done like multiple six figures and buybacks, um, if not close to seven, I think. Um and uh the reality here is that I think I think yeah, what Street is working on, which is just a protocol basically to give uh people exposure um to these uh like liquid exposure to these exit events for these startups, not a guarantee of profit or anything, um, is is just a noble, honorable thing for startups to do. I think it can be very greatly beneficial. Um and it especially shows in the bear market, right? Like when things aren't pumping off of just narratives and speculation. Like, I mean, look at it. Claire was like number one of the news cycle everywhere in the last two days. We were posting on polymarket, every big meme page, several news outlets, uh like uh like a Bloomberg interview is coming out literally tomorrow. Um, and uh the price action that clearly doesn't show that. Like if this was a bull market, it it would be at whatever, like 70 mil, 80 mil, something like that, right? Um, but it's not, and that's fine. Like, I don't actually care. Like the whole the whole goal here is that like this token is going to hopefully be here for the long run, and we want to support the holders in as best a way we can. And uh that means aligning incentives even when there's a bear market and this incentive alignment, like we're seeing a very like clear shift from very speculative things to more concrete assets. Like buybacks matter a lot. Like, we want to do discretionary buybacks with revenue, we want to make sure that we're doing like important things when it comes to token holder incentives, and and uh that is what really matters here. So, so yeah, this what Street Foundation is doing is very noble and it's very important, and it actually will create like a new generation of companies that are built off these internet quote unquote internet capital markets. Um, and uh yeah, I think it's the future for sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

I like that answer. I like that answer a lot because it's uh it is a tough game. But what what would you give? What would your advice be to founders when they're at the crossroads of saying, should I launch a token? Would you say it's a good idea, would you say it's a bad idea? Terrible idea with no plan.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

I actually think it's like it's just but okay, actually I'll retract that. I think it's a terrible idea with no plan if you're not like crazy. Um, but if you have like if you're very I wouldn't say eccentric, you have to be a bit eccentric, but I would say if you're like um resilient, um like like obnoxiously resilient, like um like you you just like gun to your head, you would never kill yourself ever, um, then uh then yeah, I think launching a token is is pretty smart, um, especially if you can just like figure things out on the fly. Um but I'd say just like wait for things like Street to materialize more, right? Like like when when this stuff is real, like there's going to be a wave of these companies like putting um portions of their um like a lot of their time into these tokens because I think it is genuinely the future of uh of financing and fundraising. Um and it helps greatly. Like Street will put out a memo soon, but CLED grew its user base like a ton and and like has made a ton of um cash and revenue and is able to build its business due to this token. And uh the whole point of Street is to give back to the holders in a meaningful way, um, no matter how much equity it is for these two startups. Like it could be um one percent. Um one percent is a bit low, in my opinion, but um something five percent's like very clean um and and like that that low number um is uh still better than every other token that exists in the market, which is doing nothing. It's just like saying it's a meme coin like existing in this lollyland, right? But um uh again, it's not tokenized equity, but I think it's the best protocol that's like aligning to uh uh incentives for holders, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

Do you Alvin? Yeah, I think we got a long way to go. Do you know the SAT stats uh believe launch coin lore, by the way?

SPEAKER_03 50:19

I do not, dude. Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

So this guy was actually he was in partnership with Ben Pasternak. Sorry, we don't say the last name, Ben P. For like two days, maybe. I think it was like two days he joined and then and then got a look behind the hood and was like, I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 50:37

That was like CTOing believe at one point. It was like in the in the in in in in all the chats, he was bullposting believe like like his fucking life depended on it. And then he talked to Ben P and he was like, Yeah, this guy sucks. And then I think he just torpedoed the chart.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Yeah, uh I mean look, like uh um yeah, all all me and my homies, hey Ben Pasternack, man. Fuck that guy. Uh anyways, he could just left believe most respectable thing that dumb fuck has done in years probably of his life. Um, I think he just laughed fire father. It's not even a company anymore. I don't even know what they're doing. Like their engineers are basically just like sick of it's true, like live with a with a Twitter badge. Um, but but yeah, like all these people that were there for a prolonged period of time, anything if you're at Believe for more than three months of your life, I have zero respect for you. Literally zero respect for you. Um, and uh um because you you're actually participating in the scam. Because in what world do you see this fucking guy going to Greece with his girlfriend when the biggest launch of his like so-called flywheel comes out, and you're like, oh, that's fucking acceptable. Like, hell yeah, man. Serious? Like, you go you go do nothing for months with like the backs of like my boy like Bobby, like like dude, Bobby has put from Dupe, by the way, has put like seven figures, I'm pretty sure, into the belief chart, and is like sitting here like trying to convince me that Ben P is like a good human being. And I'm like, yeah, bro, I'm gonna I like I love you, man, but like I'm sorry, this is not gonna play out the way you think it is. And I hope to god he proved me wrong because he's put real money into this, right? And this fucking actual living piece of shit walks away with all that money and like just screws over like Reed and like Bobby and like a generation of builders, not even considering that he's like actively clipping the CLED chart with multiple percents of supply for months.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

Yeah, I do remember this actually.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

Yeah, like that is a joke, bro. Like, are we serious right now? You made like whatever 50 mil alleged plus, and now you're here like like trying to make another 500 grand off of clipping your we serious, bro. Like this is a joke, like that's fucked up.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

I I do remember that. Uh yeah, at one point I was top 10 clad hold or cler of uh belief belief holders, and uh yeah, I I was digging in, um, I was in all the whale chats, and I started asking questions. Like, I was like, How do you guys plan on attracting new builders? Because you've got you've got a few right now, but like, where's the where's what's where's the pipeline coming from? And it was like, uh like we're gonna just try some events. And I was like, okay, so when are these happening? And they were like, uh, we don't actually have any planned. And I was like, okay, so there's no plan. Uh there's no plan, it's a complete free ball.

SPEAKER_03 53:33

They kept on stalling, they kept on saying, like, hey, we're working on it, like things are happening, like, and then like you know it's bad when like you have like Ben Pasterak in an Evidently, like, just like pretending that he's super busy, and then that and then he posts it on like, or like a bunch of people post about it because he sends it to all of his friends to make it seem like he's busy. When in reality, you have like no idea what this fucking idiot's actually doing, and anyone who's ever talked to him knows very clearly that like this guy's doing jack shit.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

So well, he he caught like lightning in a bottle on the timing because like yeah, dude, he generational opportunity just ruined the man, like insane work. Because you were saying earlier about like the whole like in the bull, it was like speculatory, like he could literally post like the letter Y, and people would be like, Well, that has something to do with you know the the research department at Stanford, and now they found him standing in some grass, which means he probably has all these why combinator uh you know partnerships, and it's like farming on timeline posting a selfie, like not knowing what the hey guys, like I'm watching, like bro.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

Like, are we serious? He wouldn't ever deny it, by the way. Like, he would like say, like, and Roy privately says he's never launching a coin ever, ever. And I actually believe him 100% when he says that, right? So when Ben Pasternak's posting a selfie with him, and then also going publicly and being like, um, oh, TBD, yeah, like it's yeah, great farm, bro. Yeah, I'm glad your chart went up 10 million.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

My my favorite Ben Pasternak story, it's a dozen it doesn't even include Ben Pasternak, it's when Old was on the show. You guys know old, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Oh, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 55:08

You know old. Old was on our show and he said that that he bought one percent of Ben Pasternak's coin because his uncle was the biggest VC in Australia, and that was his bull case. And we were like, I'm pretty sure his uncle's not the biggest VC in Australia. What the fuck are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 55:27

I looked it up on the show, I looked it up on the show and I didn't want to blow it up because he was on the show and I was like, dude, this his dad's not even in VC. Like, that's completely inaccurate. But but the chart people would believe everything when he said that.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

People believed everything about Ben Pastor now.

SPEAKER_03 55:43

This is the bull market, bro. If he did this shit now, man, like no, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Um I'm gonna put myself on the cookies. Yeah, he had a he had a vegan chicken knife.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

Oh, you do not want to hear the lore on that. I do, I do want to hear the lore. I this is recently found out too, because I'm with VCs and they're actually being like, oh my god, I saw you beefing with Ben Pastor. Like, fuck that guy. Do you know what happened with Nugs? I'm like, no, I don't even know anything about his last company. I don't I don't want to spill the tea, but like, yeah, worst operator of all time, like uh like generally bottom, like actually the worst.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

I feel like you know, we gotta get into that though.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

I feel like you want to. Yeah, I because I don't actually know if any of this true. I don't want to be like fucking yeah, yeah, it's fair.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

I mean, it was a bad idea in general, but I mean, how we all thought that a guy with a vegan chicken uh a non-meat chicken nugget brand was gonna be the leader of the ICM meta in crypto, that's on us, guys. That that's on us for believing that. We I can't believe that's on us. We took that, we're like, yeah, this guy could fucking run a business. It was vegan chicken nuggets and it failed. And then we're like, nah, but his dad's the biggest VC in Australia. He's the company. We're so dumb.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Man, bro, like it was funny to see the the like like the D1 believe lovers, like after like believefully rugged after the thing, like become like cloud supporters because for the longest time, oh my god, I joined this believe chat and I like scrolled up and I I like sort of punching my monitor. I was like, there's no shot these people are like this hateful towards me. Like Ben and like all of them were like just like posting dog shit about me for months, and then they're like, Wow, like we really believe this fucking Australian rat over Avi who's like actually building his business. Like, are we serious? Like it's so bad, man. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

Oh well, it's over now. Yeah, uh, but I mean next talk. I just went through my timeline because I was searching, because believe it or not, when Ben posted a picture of the flywheel, I probably called that the top of Launchcoin. Well, whatever that um, but that post went viral because I called it I I'd say I said that was the top, but then I went through and I was reading through people loved Launchcoin. Like Ren was bullposting and like giving me shit. People were calling me the biggest idiot in the world. People loved Launchcoin. Yeah, oh, it's a great idea, dude.

SPEAKER_03 58:05

Again, generational fumble. You he was given the opportunity to quite literally make billions of dollars, like with a B if he put any effort, five percent effort, right? But literally five percent. I could run that company in my sleep. It would it was easy, it was like the layup of the century.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

He didn't have to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

That's that's the crazy thing. He could, it was a if he had realized oh shit, the scam's actually working, maybe I should actually do it. He would have done way better.

SPEAKER_01 58:35

Fake it till you make it, and then he made it, and he should have just fucking done a little few couple things, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

Like, man, like any effort, but no, zero. So it is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

In any case, Avi, uh, we appreciate uh the transparency. Um, we're really excited to see what happens here with CLED. Um downloaded the app. Um, so you know, they they say not to do that in crypto, never download the app, but uh because I think uh I think it's pretty cool. And um, yeah, everyone who's listening, please check out CLED. Uh it's use CLED is the X um the CLED app available on iOS anywhere in the world, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um yeah.