We Thank You for Your Attention to This Matter! | EP 50

Talking:

- Trump pauses potential Iran strikes
- Oil & silver perps outperform crypto
- Hyperliquid
- Bear market stuff, we’re bored

And more.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Episode 50. We made it to 50, guys. That's uh what 25 weeks of doing this? That's almost half a year. We've been together. Holy fuck. What the hell? Holy fuck. It's a long time of our life. Um, so congrats. Wow, time is really flu. And you?

SPEAKER_05 0:14

That's a lot of time for us talking to wood sets. Yeah, no, it's one of the crazy.

SPEAKER_04 0:19

I love that you guys are choosing to talk to me. You guys complain about me, you say all these bad things. Swizzle called me the most annoying Twitter account on all CT last episode.

SPEAKER_05 0:27

Yet here he is talking twice a week. At the end of the day, we're all just trying to figure out how to achieve a whist of a list of wins like you have. And uh looking for the secret sauce.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Who would have thought? Who would have thought at the start of ETB, Ask4 would be sat here on a fucking podcast thing? Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Set who would have thought when you DM'd me pog coin that we'd become buddies.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

I know, yeah. And and the coin went wrong. Coin died. It went wrong.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Like like like like almost everything in our relationship.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

Coins wise, except for shark cat. It gone wrong.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Except for shark cat, uh, except for Trump.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Um, a few coins. But that's the thing, you know, it just takes one coin. That's it. Keep clicking. One coin. That's the message out there to all the bunk to all the bunk fun traders. From the head of bunk fun, whatever we're gonna call SATS. What's your job title?

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Head of product.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Head of product. Keep clicking. It just takes one coin to change your life. Speaking of that coin isn't doing well, so we're not gonna take that back. Yeah, they could be loading numbers. Yeah. Uh brought to you by FOMO. Uh best multi-chain trading experience in the game. Go download it today. Use promo code RISCON for 10% off all of your trading fees. Uh trade on any chain. Um, and uh there are whispers of a new update being pushed next week. So we should get say back on actually. Maybe next week or the week after. We'll get say on.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Turn this FOMO.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

Yeah, big update. Big update. Uh, we're joined with XY um chat GPT G Cr or Claude G CR, whatever, whatever the Gen Z people are using nowadays. I'm moving my talents to Cloud Code, so yeah. Talents have moved to Cloud Code. XY, you wrote the longest tweet I've ever seen in my life last week. So congratulations on that. Um I even impressed myself.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah, it was pretty fucking long, but man, it's a bad feeling.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

What was that tweet? I missed this one. Is it a bonus?

SPEAKER_00 2:30

It was a bumper like uh we we basically lost uh we lost the possibility of actually um splitting money and state in the same way that religion state was split. Oh, this is the hype one. The hype one.

SPEAKER_04 2:46

Yeah, he was sad about it.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I don't know. I I don't know why all the HLs took it personally. I was just taking what hype did to prove my point, but yeah, they went crazy.

SPEAKER_05 2:57

You know exactly why the HLs took it personally. If it is anything that doesn't align with their uh hype is the greatest thing ever exist in existence narrative, then they're going to gang up and they're gonna come at you on the timeline.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

My issue with the HLs is that every single time that I buy hype at the bottom, there's no one to be seen. There's no dot HLs, there's no fucking fighting, there's nothing. But then you say something at local tops, and that's when everyone shows up.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

The dot HLs are pretty have pretty easy top signal tells, if I've learned anything. They give it away. They like are very they're they're big top bullposters. Um, I I as well got on the wrong side of the dot HLs last week, XY I tweeted something about that announcement with um with the S ⁇ P. I qu I screenshotted a flood capital tweet, basically him admitting to knowing about it in advance, and I got went got way more views than I wanted to, and I had all the dot HLs at my fucking side. Why can they hate on that?

SPEAKER_03 4:00

He did know, didn't he?

SPEAKER_04 4:02

Like of course he knew.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Yeah, he literally knew. Like um, and that means how if he knew, then how many other people knew? And like, was this whole move on hyperliquid just based on people buying pre that news?

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Uh yes, yeah. I mean, brother, if you see your president doing it, then you can do it. Like, yeah, there's no way around it.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Yeah, I was gonna say oh my god, bro. That when they didn't they buy 1.5 bill before he announced that tweet. That is criminal, criminal.

SPEAKER_05 4:30

We've had a big week of uh what's in the um in the big short, you know, the uh that clip of like why are they confessing? Oh, they're not confessing, they're bragging. We've had a big week of that. If you guys saw Eric Trump was on an interview talking about how the his family's made over a billion dollars in the last year in crypto, and basically just same thing, just you know, just say, yeah, basically I'm an insider and people pumped our bags and you guys can do. So yeah, Flood saw that and he said, he said, hold my beer.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Do you guys think if now like the Trumps will obviously they're they're gonna insulate themselves, they're gonna pardon themselves before they leave office. So we'll never none of the shit will ever come back to them. Um, but like people they don't pardon, do you think if they lose the if they lose the presidency that there will be ramifications down the line for this like activity? You think Dems will come for them? Or you think it's just gonna be like thank god they're out of office?

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Like, it'll be water under the bridge, and everyone will just suddenly forget that this ever happened and$1.5 billion just disappeared uh out of the market, never to be seen.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

I'm not I'm I'm I'm not saying that specifically, I'm saying like there's countless examples of this happening.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Um I think it's gonna happen what the the thing that always happens is they obviously choose a couple of mid fall guys, they punish them, the big ones just like nothing happens to them, they they get away with it. And uh because every single time a new party comes to the table, they need to they need to sort of forgive the other party because they know that they're gonna fuck up too or they're gonna do some criminal activity too, and they need to be forgiven when the other party takes over. So I think it's just a deal of saying, like, hey, I'll I'll I'll like let you pass on this one, and once it flips again, you let me pass on that one, and it's just a fucking game.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

Cycle repeats it. I mean, there there will definitely be, if we see at some point we will see the regime change and it'll go far left in in power, and we will see some type of war path of revenge and trying to, you know, uh create these scapegoats who are responsible for all the problems in our country or whatever. And whether it's a Mamdani or an AOC or someone of that guard, like the question is just like, I don't know if crypto is gonna be the number one priority. There's gonna be something that they're gonna use as like, you know, the the tip of the pitchfork. But um, you know, we don't know what that'll be. I don't know if crypto is like in that top, you know. This is just kind of one of the many areas where the Trump admin has has used things for personal gain.

SPEAKER_03 7:06

So hasn't he launched a phone? The Trump phone? Is that a thing? Or am I catching shit? I haven't seen, I haven't seen for a week. I'm pretty sure he's he's launched a phone, sneakers. Um yeah, the phone.

SPEAKER_05 7:17

Oh you're no, you're thinking of the Solana saga, man. That was that was uh Tolley and and Raj. That was the Splunk Foundation has nothing to do with it.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

Uh yeah, it's just labs, it's just Solana labs, guys. Nothing to do about it.

SPEAKER_04 7:31

Yeah, I don't know. The crime is so hilariously unchecked at this point. Like, whenever I'm talking to people and pure people talk to me about crypto, all they can do is complain about the Trump family committing crime after crime after crime, and it's like it's not gonna stop anytime soon.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

But I mean, it's it's it's already happening on Trad Fight too, right? Like you're seeing these uh these you're seeing the books on S ⁇ P and everything, and you're sitting and you're basically sitting and thinking, like, dude, these guys actually play in the market in the same exact way the girls play in on meme coins, like literally the exact same way, just on the on the highest league available.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

They're buying pre buying pre-news, dumping as soon as the news comes out. Fucking crazy, man.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Everything, like you need to wonder why this guy, like you read any history book on why you would know that secrecy is like one of the biggest modes. This guy is fucking posting what he's about to do and what he's about not to do, and you need to ask yourself, like, why the fuck is he doing that? And the and at least one of the reasons should be he's trading the fuck out of it. Like, there's no, like, there's no no way you can tell me he is basically denying secrecy and not winning anything on the other side, which yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Like there has to be a gain from from the loss of secrecy. Uh, it's kind of fucking crazy, man. Like, it's a crazy reality we live in in the markets now. I saw on the on this move up, I a lot of the smartest people I know in all my group chats were like they they draw they drew the line, they were like, I'm exiting all my positions on this uh this move up. Like this is my this is my good exit. Maybe a bottom signal, but a lot of people just seem fed up, especially after that last move. And yeah, like we said, buying one.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

I think the issue when you have a president that's yeah, the issue when you have a president that's playing the game is that basically he's playing to the upside and to the downside, right? Because he has the ability to do that right via crypto and then obviously regular books. But if he's playing to the upside and to the downside, then there's no actual uh incentive for him to play only upside, which is what I think usually happened, which was they protect the SP to the upside. I know that he directionally wants to protect it to the upside, but he's willing to just fucking do these insane things to to to win on the upside, the downside, the upside, as long as it keeps sort of directionally to the upside. But I don't know how long that's gonna last because I do think people are tired.

SPEAKER_03 9:50

Yeah, and it's becoming very obvious now. Like the veil is now completely off. Like I feel like a year ago it was like everyone was like, yeah, they're they're doing it, but like, you know, it's not in plain sight, but now they just don't give a fuck. Like blasting 1.5 bill tweeting out, oh ceasefire. Like they just don't give a fuck anymore. Uh maybe that's a that's a that's a bad sign that they really don't care about hiding it anymore.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

But well, we to be fair, we don't know who like it clearly someone who is in the camp and is then is in the know, but like we don't know who it is. We're not saying that it's uh actually President Trump doing it.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

No, no, no, no, no, of course, of course. But 1.5 billion is a lot of money uh to be moving around. And someone in the camp has to be pretty close uh to get that sort of information out. But whoever it is, you know, it's fucking bad. And will any repercussions come? Probably not. But if it was me and you, if it was me and you doing that, it'd be fucking over.

SPEAKER_05 10:43

For someone, at some point, there will be repercussions. It could be years from now, we don't know who it'll be. It's probably not gonna be Donnie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:51

Speaking of speaking of markets, uh, did you guys see Circle just getting fucking hammered today?

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Yeah, man. Yeah, that's tough. Wasn't that the clarity bill? I know Swizzle's a big clarity bill guy.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

Believe it or not, is a pr I am not the only person. It is a pretty popular topic amongst those in the in the crypto world. Uh but yeah, my my take, I have not looked at anything. I haven't been on crypto Twitter. I don't know what people are saying. My initial assumption on this, and I don't know, X, Y, maybe you know better than I do. My assumption would be that this is probably a sign that the Clarity Act is getting close to passing, would be my guess, and that this is a concession. I know, you know, Brian Armstrong and and the kind of the the sex contingencies, the stablecoin issuers were really fighting to be able to have passive yield on stable coins. You know, you go on, you hold USDC on Coinbase and you get paid a passive yield. Um, that was obviously a big issue for the banks that they fought back on, and it was kind of seeming to be a line in the sand, and the lobbyists were fighting, you know, both directions. Um, my assumption would be that this is kind of an indicator that, like, okay, uh there was a concession. Now that is, you know, in order to achieve the rest of the bill getting passed, they gave this up. Hurts for stable coins a little bit. My my like gut would say maybe slightly short-term bearish stable coins, bullish Bitcoin. Um, but I think overall they probably only did that because they imagine getting the you know rules and structure in place overall is is big is a big enough win that they decided to give that up. Uh that said, could be a totally unrelated reason. Maybe this is not directly related to the Clarity Act, but I would have to imagine that that there's a connection to all that. What are they doing?

SPEAKER_00 12:53

I mean, this looks like active e-base rewards, by the way.

SPEAKER_05 12:55

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I think they left it open to see if later on. This is my take. First of all, they got two hits today, the Clarity Act, and also Tether, for the first time ever was willing to be audited. So now Circle losses a bit of his mode, which is hey, we are the secure one, we are the regulated one. Once Tether says, like, hey, come in my books and check everything, now you're like, fuck man, like, or one of our modes just disappear right now. Because if they get audited and everything's okay, then why would you hold USDC?

SPEAKER_05 13:28

Did that come out today? XY? I didn't I didn't see that about tethered.

SPEAKER_04 13:32

I don't know if it was today or yesterday. It was today. Yeah, it was today.

SPEAKER_05 13:35

So that's definitely part of it as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Do you guys use USD? Like, I find I always default to USDC. I have no idea why. Yeah, I've no idea why.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

It just feels safer to me for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah, same. I have no idea why.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

But yeah, I'm a big USDC user. Uh, because again, that was the mode. Like, hey, these guys are regulated, and Tether, honestly, you know, they started out as sketchy as you could start. And and there's a reason, only they're doing this audit only until today. They probably cleaned the books enough for it to be a good audit, and they're probably saying, like, hey, enough time has passed so that people don't go all the way into our beginnings and understand that we were basically minting way more than we had on the I I've seen lots of people compare Tether's early starts to FTX and say Tether was just faking it until they made it, and eventually they made they figured it out and they made so much money where it didn't matter, where they could cover up everything. Um, and FTX I'm sure there's a high probability of that being true.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

And FTX could have been there, they could be right there if they just didn't have they didn't do that one. Yeah, a lot of good investments there.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

I I think if SBF wasn't so fucking arrogant and didn't go after CZ, it would have it would have been fine.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Yeah, he came for blood. He really did come for blood. CZ CZ fucking portion.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

You don't go for CZ blood.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Yeah, that was crazy, man. That was a crazy time in the market. I think I told that story last pod, didn't I? What a fucking disaster. Yeah, it was a disaster.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Speaking of CZ, man, like the Trump family pardoned CZ and is just cozying up Tim. World, World Fi on Aster, World Fi on Binance, like they love being busy.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

They love it. Like they don't really like Solana, man. They don't really like Solana.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

I wonder why.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

Yeah. I don't know, guys. I'm just thinking about Tether right now. I don't know how XY could say that they do anything sketchy. I'm thinking about these great investments. Uh Plasma, bit, uh, and eight sleep. Well, eight sleep. That's I think that's a good sleep.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

That's a good that's a good yeah, that's a good one. That's the best one, in fact.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Uh that's positive to me. This this third team was very smart because they actually understood who was willing to buy dollars, which was basically non-American people, and USDC went to American people and said, like, hey, here are some dollars which you can get in whichever fucking application you have as a banking system. And the smart part about Tether is that they went outside the US so they could actually play this sketchy play, which is hey, if I sell US dollars to poor people in Argentina, Mexico, whatever, they're not gonna come at me. So I'm willing to play this sketchy game because my counterparty will never come at me aggressively, right? So they did that, they sold dollars to the people that actually wanted the dollars, and it was people that were poor enough to not come after them, and that's why they had this huge spread in which they could actually play the books and play the one-on-one pair until they actually made it, which is I think pretty smart. I don't think it was uh something they stumbled upon. I think it's it was something that they understood since they won.

SPEAKER_05 16:44

So XY, question for you. Like, why I know you said they probably have their books cleaned now, but like why why go through with agreeing to do the audit now? Is it just because of they recognize the moment in time that the the admin's friendly and they can get basically like some clearance uh moving forward, or like why do they even need to like agree this audit process?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

I would guess for a couple of reasons. First one, yeah, is the admin is friendly. Second one is I think Circle and Tether and everyone seeing how TratFi is gonna get involved in stablecoins. And if you want to compete with TratFi, the big ones, the big banks and everything, you need to be up pair with them. If you don't do audits, then you're like, dude, you're like the ugly duckling of this stablecoin era because you're not doing what the TratFi is doing. Which is also very surprising to me that people really thought that the Clarity Act was gonna pass yield on stablecoin. Like, dude, that basically kills TratFi, and TratFi has never been willing to get killed or to get uh outdated. Like they protect it so much, it's a fucking money game. They're not gonna leave it to other people for the taking. Like, if you actually if you actually let people get yield on stablecoin, banks would have need to raise deposit rates, they would have to compress lending spreads, they would have to reduce profitability because basically you're giving a yield on cash, which is like again insane. I don't know why people thought that was gonna pass.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Right, and that's why like Brian Armstrong and them they they got a little greedy at the end trying to hold the line on that. But this was always like that was always the pipe dream that they I mean that was like the best case scenario. Trump admin pushes this through, which they can't do, you know, on their own. So like I I don't actually think you see, I know Circle's price crashed a little bit today, but like I don't think this is like a bearish thing. Like, still getting a Clarity Act passed even without that is like I think you're gonna see a lot of basically, you know, you have you have all these assets that were and institutions waiting that we can't bid into this industry because we don't know what the rules are gonna be. You'll still have the rules now. So I I don't think this is like a big, I don't think it's a big deal uh personally.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

But the difference you can make like on yield as well, like from TranFi to like just holding stables on fucking Coinbase, for example, is crazy especially. I know it's a bit more a bit more better in the uh in the US, but in the UK, like our average accounts uh like yield on the accounts are like two percent, like two point maximum two point five percent is like your best account. Yeah, you go to Coinbase and you get like 4.7% uh times yeah, it's actually generally impossible to compete for banks, especially with Coinbase.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

And for you Sats, that's why you ended up keeping most of your money on chain, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:32

Yeah, largely, right? That was uh reason why. There is no there's no high yield savings account here, so I it's just that makes no it makes no sense for me to to off ramp it when I can get away the high yield on uh on on things like Camino and things like it in Coinbase, like bull case for DeFi on the right. Yeah, for real.

SPEAKER_04 19:54

So we have something else. Did did you guys see Calosinus or J Cal as he fucking calls himself, telling us all that tau is about to 200x? This is post a Jensen and Chamath shell. So there's a I know you posted a thesis about Tao. So can you tell me how you're a Tao guy post-chamath and Jensen and J Cal saying it's 200xing?

SPEAKER_05 20:14

Well, I did I didn't post I didn't post a thesis.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

I didn't there's uh there's something that could compound to you know a$500 billion market cap for you know um tau, which would be roughly, you know, if it's trading at two or three billion, let's put it at 2.5 billion, it's a 200x from here. That's my base case.

SPEAKER_04 20:40

Is I think we say case could go 200 billion. Either that 200 or 60 billion.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

How does J. Cal even come up with that number? 500 billion. Historically, I've seen things of value when I see on something there that could compound to you know a 500 billion dollar market cap for um town. It could be frankly to a guy through a how uh you're you're you're you're long dialogue size now, I believe.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Um you see this, you see chamath, you see Jensen, you're not thinking local top here, you're thinking let's shove more in. Are you thinking$500 billion?

SPEAKER_05 21:27

Okay, to be fair. I started bidding before I saw the Chamath thing. So that was mildly concerning. It was mildly concerning. I will admit that. Uh no, I mean, look, uh I view this right now as similar in some ways to what we saw with Zek. And you know I I held on too long with with that, but I I feel like uh a number of us. We're hit that sweet spot of being early late or late early. I don't know how you would want to call it. Actually, that's a XY uh moniker that I've taken because that's an XY special. Like when you recognize the trend, you recognize the narrative. For me, what I was looking at was like the technicals with the setup on the chart, in addition to the explosiveness of the narrative that was up until a few days ago really not being talked about much on the timeline. But you could see the clear uh this, how this fits into everything happening with AI. The narrative made a lot of sense. Um, the chart was pretty bottomed, and then funding got super negative. On this was on the first squeeze, up to like, you know, from like two low 200s to like 270, 273. But I think it like if you remove even the technicals, I think with with tau, you have an argument where basically like there's a very simplified way. It's a complex thesis, but a very simplified way of explaining it. You know, if you want to like really dig it down, you can you can basically say, what is tau? Tau is the is the currency that is that is used for BitTensor, where you're basically providing an option to have people have some type of market exposure to the monetization of these AI models. So like if you think about it like almost like Uber, right? Like before when you had the taxi cabs, you had like all basically one operator controlling everything. They're the ones making money, they're the ones who control the entire ecosystem. That's anthropic, open AI, the kind of the people who are putting together these models and kind of orchestrating everything. BitTensor comes along and it's basically think about it like the open source version. So now anybody can can be an independent operator and compete to train these models. And if they create good models, they they they add good data in that allows for improvement, they can get paid on that. Um, if they don't do a good job, if they don't do anything that's like value additive, they get replaced by whoever comes along and does the best one. So I think about it like this it's a meritocracy. It's not going to replace anthropic, it's not gonna replace open AI, but like there is clearly a narrative that's forming where there's a world for why can't these AI models be developed on an open source basis where people, the people who contribute into them, make them better and they get paid for their services. And that's where Tau comes in because Tau is this is all a network, and Tau is the currency that operates on all that. So you think about like why is this relevant now? Like everything you see when you, you know, people are all adapting using LLMs, everything you see is related to Claude Code and Anthropic, what OpenAI is doing, cursor, all these different tools. But like this is, you know, if you want to really break it down simply, this is the open source solution that allows you as an individual to partake in this and potentially monetize off of it. That's what's explosive about this narrative. Um, there's a lot of nuance within that. You can get into subnets and how it all works and everything. As far as like looking at the trajectory of why this thing is picking up right now, yes, it's concerning sometimes seeing these things that could generally be viewed as top signals. I don't know if that matters right now. What matters right now is I think this is exploding. The algorithm is taking it over. People are starting to think about, oh, what actually is this? They internalize it. And, you know, that's where you could really see, you know, some parabolic uh expansion on this, because uh it's possible that, and I would say also like the data as far as like the derivatives data and funding and all that stuff would suggest that like this is a squeeze, a classic short squeeze setup that is start that really picking up steam and isn't is not all the way done. Like to me, it looks very clear if you go back and look at the Zec chart, like we are where it was before it really exploded.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Um what is your entry on Tao?

SPEAKER_05 26:06

It's not that high because I I exited, like I only got in a very small amount on that first squeeze up to like 270. Uh, and I kind of exited the position because I thought maybe the squeeze was over. It turned out to be more of like a reloading phase. And I I definitely I was kind of like debating how things were gonna go because the weekend looked so bad for Bitcoin that I exited and then I re-entered in the low 270s, mid 270s is like my average entry right now. That's why I posted the thing yesterday where you know I was kind of flip-flopping and trying to develop, and then I saw a thread guy post his video where he was like, bro, I didn't do any research, I just saw all these tweets, and then I just like full ported it. And his entry is better than mine after all that.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

Yeah, uh, thread commanding like trade alike, it sounds like like, oh, people are talking about this. Seems like a one-sentence thesis I can get behind full port. Let's go.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

But good idea, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:00

That does to me, that does promote the thesis because right now, and uh again, there's another XY moniker, he can talk on it, like in a bear market with bear market price action, you really there there's only so much like like capital and attention can only focus on really one thing at a time. So maybe two things at a time. And so right now, this is it. I don't I can't tell you if it's gonna last for two days or two weeks, uh, as far as like the true momentum meat of the trade. But right now, I think there's definitely some more juice left to be squeezed.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

So you're not holding for five to ten years for a 500x you're saying?

SPEAKER_03 27:35

You're not looking for the 200 five billion, the 500.

SPEAKER_05 27:38

I don't know. I gotta rethink it after seeing Jason's video this morning.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

Uh XY, are you a Tau guy? Are are are are you buying what Jake Kellogg and Jensen and Swiss want? I already know, I already know Xbox. I don't want to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

For everyone to get it. I would I would have bought it if I was like early on the on the thesis, but uh I think this is just uh uh Zec 2.0, which is not gonna be as powerful as Zec. You've got to understand that Jason is also online 24-7 and next. He saw what fucking what the what the dudes did with Zec and he's trying to replicate it. He saw uh what Naval did with it and he's like, okay, I'm gonna post about this. Probably had a bag before. He's gonna push that dumb narrative in which they try to make these things very sophisticated when they're not. The big issue with Tao is like they produce supply, but they have no demand for it. Like, who's gonna actually buy their demand? No one, and since they are not playing at a level of anthropic or open AI or whatnot, they cannot sustain something that would sustain the token again because no one's gonna consume what they have, which is basically the worst way to do business. Uh, because they they again they don't own the demand part of it. So as like I'm I'm one of those like, yeah, bet the illusion, but know the truth. Like, this is not gonna, it's the exact same thing with Zeg, like it might take years, and also like the only the only bookcase I see with with uh Tao is if the big AI labs say, like, hey, let's use Tao as the open source for the people and let's just play dumb with it. Like, let's give them this shitty open source and say, like, hey guys, you also have an open source um option, which is super shitty, and we know that, but at least we try to play it as we, yeah, we want to all play together. You can have your open source, and then you can have us to do this and that. That's my only bookcase, which I don't think will happen. I mean, we saw uh Jensen talk about it, that's where I got this thought from. Like, maybe they say, like, yeah, just support a shitty open source, just so that we level up and people don't think that we're evil and whatnot. That would be a bookcase, but still, I don't think that's gonna be the case. So I just see it as uh as um say 2.0 to be honest.

SPEAKER_05 29:58

Well, the good news here is we're gonna clip my thesis and we're gonna not clip XY's uh refutation of it. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 30:08

It's has it got Solana like tokenomics where they just fucking print loads of uh tokens but they have no buyers? Is that the is that's what's going on here?

SPEAKER_05 30:17

No, I think yeah, I I don't I don't think that's what he's saying exactly because it's it's very similar to Bitcoin in terms of the well there's it's not a it's not like an inflate, it's not like they're printing more tokens, right? XY? I don't think it's inflationary.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Oh no, when when when I was referring to supply, I meant uh cognitive supply or intelligent supply. Like they're gonna have a lot of supply, but no one's gonna consume them. Like again, OpenAI, Google, Anthropic, they own the distribution, so they consume their their own uh models and uh again, intelligence, cognitive, call it whatever. BitTensor can do that, but who's gonna buy it? And then if there's no one to buy their product, it's obviously like what's gonna happen with token, right? Yeah, yeah, that's what I meant. I didn't mean supply. I don't know how their supply again. I haven't read tokenomics, I was late to the to the tweets, but uh but yeah, I just don't see them competing as an open source with anthropic and everything. And you always need to understand that private capital is way more powerful than outsourced capital.

SPEAKER_05 31:19

So right, and I but I I think no one's saying it's gonna be equally valued to an anthropic or open AI, Jake Allen's. No, no, he's not even saying that. That's why he that's why he gave a base case that was still underneath. Um but no, the tote the tokenomics are basically kind of like Zek. They're they're basically modeled after Bitcoin. So I think you know, tau is four years, the tensor is four years old, five years old maybe. And so like it's basically the I don't know where it's at on the distribution curve, but it's it's fair distribution, and I think they're pretty much uh it's like I'm curious as to when do you exit the trades, Rizzo?

SPEAKER_00 32:00

I think that's the right question. Like you can you can buy this trade again as a Zeg 2.0, in which you say, like, hey, yeah, there's there's only this asset that's being highlighted, jump on it and then exit it. At what point do you exit? I I don't think you should believe that this is going past their all-time highs, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_04 32:14

Yeah, and yeah, and and before you answer that, I I do want to go. I we we pulled up a tweet that XY had that I thought was really great, um, which is about in a bear market, you gotta blind yourself to the idea of five X's and realizing that like a 2x is what you're being given right now in the form of like what you would generally look for a 10x level aggression. Um, and I really like that tweet because I found myself struggling with this concept and always wanting more and more and letting greed get in front of me. Um so I really like that XY. And that is why I brought this tweet up for you to answer this question. I appreciate it, Swizzle. For you to answer this exact question, Swizzle.

SPEAKER_05 32:47

Yes, and I'm glad you guys brought that up because I think this is XY makes a great point. Um this is where I'm I'm trying to, even if I leave some upside on the table, I'm learning from my my Zek mistakes because I caught Zek very, you know, pretty early, late early, with a lot of size. Um, and I was up massively, but I I think I got caught up in the belief over the momentum and didn't acknowledge enough how we were in bear market conditions. Uh and I round-tripped a lot. Um here I'm recognizing I may leave some upside on the table, but I have a much more defined framework for how I'm doing it. And this is this is where the technicals come into play. So, like right now, I'm basically going to let going level to level. So, you know, um what I'm looking at is like, you know, I'm I'm taking a lot of the like the funding rates and derivatives volume that basically suggests where these different squeeze levels would be. And whenever these the the levels flip, I I get a little bit more cautious. But basically, like I'm in at the bottom of that moveset on like the low 270s, right? Where you started the last squeeze went to 273. Now that's turned into support. Uh so you're kind of ranging there. If we break through, like I don't know where it's at now, but if we break past like 313 or$314, then I would say it's kind of confirmation of flipping resistance to support. And so I'd be comfortable even adding some more in like around$300. Uh, but like if you lose, if you lose 273, that last area that I'm cutting. Uh and similarly, like, I'm not gonna try to ride this for 3x or whatever. Like, you know, if we get another 20, 20, 30 move, I'm probably happy with that.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

So um the the the way I would think about it is you know that chart that Woodlovs on the roller coaster?

SPEAKER_04 34:44

Woodlovs on that. I love that fucking chart.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

It's the best chart in the world. I think you should put Zek before Tao on that roller coaster. So I do think the the next loop is gonna be smaller than Zek because people got burned in sec, and that was the only one highlighted on this bear market, and then this is the next one highlighted. It's gonna be the same thing, like people are gonna be like, okay, yeah. Because I again I do know, I do think that people know the truth and are betting the illusion of hey, this is gonna go to like that. The illusion is the the the Jason tweet or the JSON prediction, but people know the truth, like it's not gonna get there. Right, I would just be like comfortable saying like this is not gonna be as big as sec. That's that's my right.

SPEAKER_05 35:27

I and I you've said that a couple of thoughts a couple times. I think that's fair to say, but like Zek pumped 600% in like two months, right? So uh Tao, what what are we at? It's up like 60% from January. Yeah, 70. What is it? So I totally agree. Like, totally agree. It's not gonna probably 6x from here or whatever. 110. It's what 110. 110. So like I think some of the move has definitely already happened. But I I think if you're looking for a trade, um you know, like I think just saying, well, it's not gonna do as much as Zec, that's a simple framework, and you can definitely not take the trade if you don't want to, but like I still think you gotta think about like, okay, there could be a lot of meat left on this, even if it does 30% of what Zec did. 35%.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

I mean, I think we're at I think we're at good sample size. Like, who here has uh tau? Only Swizzle?

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Only Swizzle. Only Swizzle.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Okay, from from from the from the rest of us, are you guys gonna buy tau at some point? Because we're the perfect sample. Like there's there is this one guy that bought sort of early, and then there's three guys that are sidelined. Are these two guys willing to buy at some level? My answer is no, I'm not willing to buy at any level. And then if the sample size is correct, then you need to understand like who's gonna come buy. You need to have someone like the Winkle boss where to sec, or someone who's very big, so that maybe convinces Wood, Sats, and myself to buy because you're not saying, like, holy shit, there's another big player. If that big player doesn't come, let's take the sample size as true.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Damn. What if Jensen starts buying XY? And all bets are on. That's where Puzzle's gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Puzzle's gotcha there. That's a good thesis. That's a great, great thesis. What if he starts? I wish I thought of that. I wish I thought of that.

SPEAKER_05 37:20

This is why we keep talking to Wood, because every once in a while he just comes up with a genius idea.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Simple, simple things. Uh XY, you made a also made a tweet, and I'm curious if if uh if you're still on hyperliquid. So you, I believe, I believe it was you, you tweeted war war is good for hype. Um, and obviously we've seen that come to fruition. I know you have been a big hype supporter for a long time. Um, you've you know, hype will be ripping, and they'll be like, I'm setting bids at$25, and then it hits$25 and your bids will fail. Um, and then you hold or sell, I'm not sure. So, right now, are you in hype? Uh, do you think this is a local top? Do you think, or are you just a holder for for the long term?

SPEAKER_00 38:00

In hype, I have the the$25 bids that filled, and I have all of my airdrops since I begin. I haven't sold a single cent for my airdrop. Uh my stance on it, and I hope the.hls are not hearing this, but I'm gonna sell everything before we hit all-time high again. I don't know if it's a local top or not, but I'm not gonna go past 60 with these coins. My issue with hype lately is that it was sort of of uh sort of why why I made that tweet about uh state and and uh money. The thing is that we are inviting all this strat fi into one chain. And people need to understand that stratfi are the most aggressive motherfuckers when they want to churn people. And the easiest the easiest target to churn is hyper liquid. They're not gonna buy hyperliquid, they're not gonna partner with hyperliquid, they're gonna understand how hyper liquid does it, and then they're gonna basically take them for themselves. So now I'm not as bullish as to say, like, yeah, hyperliquid is what it's gonna compete with the incumbents. I I don't think so, and that's why I'm like at X level, I'm not gonna say the number, but before all-time high or close to all-time high, I'm gonna be completely out of everything on hype. I really hope it goes like up forever. I really hope I regret my decision, but I see it as complicated. And and one other thing that has been on my mind, because this has been happening for a while now, is what fucking happens with a token if someone comes in for equity? If a big player comes in and buys hype equity, the token then becomes a huge political issue. And if someone even buys hyperliquid, what the fuck happens to a token? The buyer's not gonna care about the token, they don't owe anything to anyone. So it's also a thing that you need to consider when when having these tokens that that are gonna compete with the incumbents, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

That would be a massive like roadblock. Like I feel like if someone wants to buy a hype, like that's gonna be you can't really go near it. You can't really go near it if with a token. Because you can't bro, if they if they cut the token support, it would be that would be it.

SPEAKER_05 40:03

Like that would be I wonder what that would do to the like user base. Like what I think it would zero it. Honestly, I think it would zero it.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Like me too. I mean, everyone's there for everyone's there for the promise of the token. Like that that's the issue that token always leaks into product. Every single protocol that runs a token and a product, they're running two businesses. They're running the fucking token business and they're running their product business. When someone outside of crypto comes in and buys, they just want to buy the product business. They want nothing to do with the token business because there's nothing for them. The token was used to bootstrap the company. So it gives it gives the the non-crypto buyers zero. Because they do not believe in in maybe you can say, like, hey, the cost acquisition per customer is is an asset that appreciates if you have a token or whatever. They don't give a fuck about that, to be honest. And that's why I'm really having a hard time with hype on on this sense.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Yeah, it's a tough one. Do you think there's gonna be any like regulatory issues with it, like when the DAMs get in? Like in terms of like KYC and things like that. I know that's a big thing people like to fudge. Like people are like, what happens if the dams come for them?

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I I I tweeted about that and the HLs got mad too because I told them, like, hey, do you think that once tradfight comes in, they're gonna come in, KYC people, and they're gonna leave that advantage only to hyperliquid? That's insane, man. Like when TratFight breaches over on-chain, they're gonna also breach the the rules. They cannot breach on-chain and say, like, hey, if you play off-chain, then you have to KYC. But with us, the exact same players, if you play on-chain, you don't have to KYC. That's too black. There's no there's no chance regulation is gonna allow for both. Like, hey, if you play with Tradfy on TratFi, KYC. If you play with Tradfy on-chain, do not KYC. Yeah, they're gonna have to KYC both, and at that point, when when TratFi starts KYCing on-chain, then TratFi is gonna lobby very hard to kill the non-KYC mode of of hyperliquid. So again, people are are are celebrating, like, oh yeah, TratFi is coming in and shit. I'm like, dude, they're bringing in liquidity regulation, uh, aggressiveness, like they're not just adopting your fucking on-chain technology. They they're coming for it. They're gonna be able to do it. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Yeah, that's always worried me. Like, deep down when I like the when when I think about a long-term high position, I think a lot of the hyper liquid guys would call me, like, oh, you're you're being retarded, like, this doesn't actually matter. But in the back of my head, I'm always thinking, like, this is I feel like this will become a compliance issue at one point, just for the reasons you said that like Tradfire will come along and they're not just gonna sit around why hyperliquid go, oh, okay, why see folks? Everyone's good over here. Like it just doesn't seem realistic to me. But maybe I'm thinking too long term in the uh in the future and I should just hold for the new moves in the short term. Um take a lot in that.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Yeah, I'm not sure what's gonna happen. Um but I I do know that it's complicated. Um, and you know, this war stuff has obviously been a huge catalyst for it, but it's also made me realize that like how much of this stuff just is going to be uh done by trying to find people just as XY said. And it's kind of made me and also the the reactions of a lot of the.hl guys um and how euphoric they seem to be with all of this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

I also think another like another one of the biggest issues we have, I still don't know I had this conversation yesterday, but I still don't know if it's even gonna be possible is the whole idea around tokenized equity. And I feel like it's gonna be it's gonna take someone to build it in crypto, and then someone from an institutional level is gonna come along and do it ten times better and kill off whatever we have. But I think that honestly, still, that is the most interesting angle in crypto that I have long term is this whole idea of tokenized equity. What that looks like yet, I have no fucking idea. And we have no examples of it working or even close to working like it. Honestly, is

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Isn't it just uh RWA sets like basically you're gonna tokenize equity, but you're gonna again when Tratfy breaches, they're also breaching the rules. You're gonna have to be an accredited investor and shit. Like it's again, my tweet was very sentimental. Maybe I was hormonal that day, but we're actually kidding, we're actually killing the Wild West. Like when Tratfy joins, they're gonna join with with the rules and with their games because with those rules is how they win. Those rules are not bugs, man. Like people need to understand that.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Yeah, that's also true. Yeah, you're gonna have to fucking KYC to own a bit of the equity and then yeah, crypto guys and all that. It's like the revolving cycle of regulation.

SPEAKER_05 44:42

Uh but maybe we'll be in turbo boom, turbo boomers and bats, but it's definitely a case of like before the the crypto OGs, like be careful what you wish for, type of thing, right? You wanted you wanted everyone to buy into all this, you wanted them to get on board, but now what does that do to the thing that you knew and loved? You know, you know what it does?

SPEAKER_04 45:02

It's bullish for the Zach. I know uh XY's favorite coin. We're all gonna be Zach Bulls now.

SPEAKER_05 45:09

Um last thing I want to talk about is XY by the way, XY did mention he was he was mildly intrigued now. Uh really? Yeah.

unknown 45:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 45:17

Zach is the only coin that I uh outside of Bitcoin that I cared that I care to own throughout the spare market.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

You know, you know, I honestly, and um, this is my entry pretty much. My entry is 200.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

Uh so I've been considering allocating here actually.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

I have I have seg because you fuckers convinced me, and then I bought a book a bit more when when we saw the news about the the the race from AI60z and everything, like maybe you say, like, hey, this is the new token they push. Remember at some point I told you guys like there's always these tokens that that the OGs want to push. Maybe this becomes one of them uh just because they're one they want to run it back. People want to run it, people want to run the Bitcoin playback. They need to find where to fucking run it back.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

And the Winkelboss twins own three percent of it. Stars are aligning for that thesis XY. It's not aligning for Avax like you and ask.

SPEAKER_05 46:08

Wait, am I am I hearing that I thought I was the most bullish privacy man on this show, but I am sidelined, and everyone else on the stream right now is is a proud Zec holder. Am I hearing that?

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Brother, you're you're a towel guy now. Please don't do that. You're a towel guy. You're a towel guy.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

You you and Shamath and J Cal are all on the same side. And Sasha and I are purists. We're privacy purists. We are we are blockchain, whatever the I don't know what I want to say. And you are just falling in line with uh boomers influencers on TikTok.

SPEAKER_05 46:42

I'm gonna be honest with you guys. For the next couple weeks, I am an I'm an AI man, and uh I'm gonna lean into that. And I'm one of the all-in, I'm I'm one with the all-in pod. And uh when that hopefully that plays its course, and then I can rejoin, I can rejoin where I belong with you guys. We'll see.

SPEAKER_04 47:01

Yeah, yeah. Um last thing before we go, um I I want to talk about the state of crypto Twitter and like telegram chats and how depressing it all is. Um and just like how are you like there there are lots of smart people here. A lot of them are gone and taking breaks. Crypto Twitter is just like absolute slop right now. The timeline is giving you ridiculous things. Um I I'm gonna pull up a gain z tweet, actually, summarized it pretty well. Um are you guys on CT? Are you guys tweeting anymore? Are you guys getting any like where are you guys finding value right now? Um between chats and crypto twitter for for our listeners. Like, how can you like so I I'm I'm sitting here like how what is what are things I can focus on right now that'll make me smarter and better? Um not like the bullshit slap, like let's go buy the next bonk fun 50k topper. Sorry, Sam.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Fuck, man. It's going straight, bro. It's going straight out of nowhere. Fuck. Uh I don't know, man. CT's in a weird place. Uh it's uh it's a very toxic environment at the moment. Everyone's just it's it's just classic bear market activities. Uh I think paid fud has changed it a little bit. Um of where CT is right now.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Uh I think I think C T was City was bad always, right? But on a on a bull market, you feel excited about like again on a bull market, everything's funny, everything's cool, everything's everything. But I don't think City was what that was that good ever. Uh one thing I I would say to your point, Wood, is I don't think on a bear market you're able to get any good insight or anything that would make you better on the next bull because given you're on a bear bear market, there's nothing that can be actionable. So I could tell you the most insightful shit, but since you cannot take action on it, it's not gonna teach you anything. On a bull market, maybe I'll tell you a couple of tips and then you're gonna immediately take action on those tips, like hey, you should buy you should buy late early or you should be the X and Y. But right now everything is low motion. So anything, any advice that you get that you cannot take action on is bad advice or it's boring advice. And right now I think that's where CT is. Even though you have smart people, their advice is worthless because you cannot take action on that advice. And and that just becomes very, very boring because you don't want to keep you don't want to keep getting advice you cannot take action on because again, it's just stupid. That's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 49:36

That's a good point. Swizzle, where are you where are you finding value today, if any at all? You've been like MIA lately.

SPEAKER_05 49:42

Uh yeah, I haven't been posting a lot. Um I'm starting to wonder if it's a little more simple than we thought. I'm starting to think a lot of the smart people are just on vacation.

SPEAKER_04 49:52

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:54

With a bump. It might be as simple as that. And we're all just scrolling, but it's like, yeah, I think they're all just on vacation, man. Um I I'm uh I'm talking to my open claw a lot more than I am to people on Twitter, but uh it sounds like that's getting killed now too, with uh with Claude just just doing the open claw killer. So I might have to I might have to find a new place to hang out. I don't know. Might go on vacation to Woods 8100 house soon. Just give myself a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

Get a bow and arrow shot in you or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Oh my god. I had to put that guy in jail. Um ever get the we uh start digging tomorrow. I just passed my uh I'm gonna have to give the name archaeological study. Well, I just had an archaeological study to ensure that there was no Native American activity on my land uh or bodies or artifacts found. They cleared that. There were no dead bodies, there were no Indian artifacts found.

SPEAKER_05 50:51

There was one arrow in the house. There was an arrow.

SPEAKER_04 50:55

That that was a modern hunting arrow that somebody with a poor shot trying to shoot a deer um missed and hit my house. So we're digging the pool tomorrow. Um, that's sick. I hope nothing goes wrong. I'm sure something will go wrong. But you know, you never know. So I'll be swimming on the house.

SPEAKER_05 51:13

And and what about the negotiation with the 90-year-old woman? Uh oh. That's for another house? How many houses what what's going on over here, man? Uh crypto.

SPEAKER_04 51:22

What can I say? Um uh we are in a we're just at a standstill with this old Jewish woman. You know, we can't get anywhere. She's at her price, I'm at my price, and we're both just stubborn, egotistical people. And uh apparently ego does not fade with age, it only grows stronger. Um so we're just stuck. Uh and you know, maybe, maybe, maybe this week will be good for us. I'm I'm I'm gonna try to reach out to her and extend an all of French, but we'll see. Just a couple Jews fighting each other, you know?

SPEAKER_03 51:50

Yeah, yeah. Classic, classic, classic, classic. Over a few shekels, guys. A few shekels.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

Anyone uh and anything else we want to talk about, or we wrap this up. We'll be back, maybe be back Friday. Swizzle's out Friday. Um we will see if we wanna we might we we we might have a cool guest on that I think is interesting. Um, or we might just have Sats and I. Um very interesting. I I you know I I I wanted to make I wanted to talk about Bonk Fun today. We didn't get to do it. Thank god. No.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Wood, what the I have a question, I have a question for you, Wood. What happened to your Boogle? I know that's not on the list of wins, but what happened, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:33

Definitely not on the list of wins.

SPEAKER_03 52:36

Wood would bought the most expensive Boogle ever.

SPEAKER_04 52:39

Um I did buy the most expensive Boogle ever. Um I'm like I yeah, I I'm I'm I'm you know, I should go down. No, no one makes fun of me. No, they make fun of the board ape guys who bought really expensive board apes, but I somehow am getting a pass here.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

The boogless guy slipped under the radar, man. Like, how much I slipped under the radar.

SPEAKER_00 52:58

But isn't that is that still active? Like, is that chat active? Are you getting something from them or no? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

Chat's active. Everyone's there, everyone's boogling, you know. They're all boogling.

SPEAKER_05 53:10

You know what you know it'd be a fun segment to do on this show? We should we should go through the worst, everyone's worst trade. I'm trying. Um I mean, Wood's Boogle is up there, me buying Moonwalk Fitness token Scott. I did that too.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

We all got burned, yeah. We all got banned on that. That was a triple burn, bro. They got us all on that.

SPEAKER_05 53:28

We'd have some good candidates to talk through, I think.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Oh, my Boogle's back. There it is. Oh, fucking hell. Yeah. Well, so you know what? I I I took down the Boogle in hopes of like bringing back good price action when like Bitcoin was like at was like, I forget where it was. I was like, and the trenches were kind of heating up. Ralph and Gas were there, you know. I was like, you know what? Boogle has been nothing but bad vibes for the past year. We're gonna go back to Puppet Wood and try to bring back on-chain magic a little bit, and then I got rubbed like three straight coins back to back to back with large size, and then I should probably just bring the Boogle back if it's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Isn't the uh the puppet you can't even fucking sell anymore?

SPEAKER_04 54:10

Yeah, I lost. I oh man.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

Yeah, they don't even own the puppet and he's gone.

SPEAKER_04 54:16

My puppets on my Magic Eden wallet when Magic Eden discontinued all support for Bitcoin, and I lost my private seeds for my Magic C my for my Magic Eden wallet. So I think I've got I've got like I think I have like eight puppets or something like that. I've got a couple too.

SPEAKER_05 54:32

So what do we do with them now?

SPEAKER_03 54:33

I've got two. I've got two. They're just gone.

SPEAKER_05 54:35

Are they just collectibles now?

SPEAKER_03 54:36

You know, I bought them for 10k each, bro. I bought like the top of them.

SPEAKER_04 54:41

My profile picture I spent$54,000 on. No way. Swear to God. Oh man. 54. So don't talk to me about 10k Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Yeah, I had the the green the green shirt Ketamin t-shirt one. Those were sick.

SPEAKER_04 54:57

They are still sick. I still love my puppets.

SPEAKER_03 55:00

They're not so sick when they're$200 a pot, man. I I still can't work. You know, Magic He didn't turn into a gambling site. Like, what the hell? Or am I making it? Did it really? It did, yeah. We talked about the last site. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, full pivot. They've gone from NFTs, just they're going, fuck it. Gambling time. This is this is what makes sense. Like what? Like it's like online slots, or like I don't know. I don't know. I I think it's a matter of time, but I saw someone say like it's a matter of time before they discontinue uh Solana NFT support because it's like that it is actually just a ghost town over there. Um and then I don't know what happens after that.

SPEAKER_05 55:34

Oh, so this is when we were talking about um because OpenSea delayed their token, and then we saw that guy was on the cover of Vogue magazine or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 55:42

Vanity Fair.

SPEAKER_05 55:43

Vanity Fair, yeah. Wait, guys, did you see the backpack token? XY looks like XY got his old profile picture back again from last time he was on the show with us, too. Oh god.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

XY was bearish at the right time. He he he listened to me and became a bear. I'm sure that was the only reason why he became bearish. He was bear pill. There was no other reason other than me, of course.

SPEAKER_03 56:07

Wait, wait, Henry, can you bring up this chart real quick? This is the new launch. Wait, oh wait, if I just have I uh that might be slander. That might be slander, that might be the wrong uh chart. That's the 54k liquidity.

SPEAKER_04 56:17

Is it the lighter chart?

SPEAKER_03 56:19

No, no, it's the backpack chart. It's the backpack chart. What happened to them? Oh, did it they just did their TG? They've just done the TG, and uh let me just say it is down to pull it up. It's down 5% from launch. Uh wait, wait, this is the chart I think. This is this has 500k liquidity. Um that's the chart to pull up, Henry. It it launched a 67 mil uh market cap. Uh I don't know what FDV. It's now at 45 mil market cap. So that's not so bad. Yeah, a classic TG launch. Uh down. What do they do? Is it a DEX or wallet? It's a wallet, I think.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

They actually they actually did something interesting with equity. No sets. You were asking about equity on token. I think they did something interesting with equity. I think you should look it up, yeah. Right. I mean, I didn't follow it up, but I I read something about it.

SPEAKER_03 57:04

Yeah, actually, maybe I need to dig into this. But the chart, is it looking like uh they've done anything uh groundbreaking? I gotta say, it looks better than the moonlock fitness. Honestly, honestly, it could be worse. I've seen worse. Yeah, a few more reds, and then we're looking we're looking normal.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

But right now it looks better than the lighter chart. Nearly bottomed.

SPEAKER_03 57:22

It looks nearly bottomed.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

It looks better than the pump fun chart. It does. And I could go on.

SPEAKER_03 57:27

Yeah, you could probably every chart.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

Dude, the only way this chart could look worse is if is if it could go back in Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

It's not going straight into the left. Down and to the left. Yeah, backpack. Uh oh. I don't know. Like, who's the marginal buyer of this? I I'm unsure. Um, but can I ask the marginal buyer of any of our fucking coins?

SPEAKER_05 57:50

There's nothing like I don't know. Can I ask you guys a quick question? I'm actually like genuinely curious because I know I'm sure there's a lot that goes into choosing the TGE date, but why the fuck would you launch like right now? Like, why would you do that?

SPEAKER_04 58:03

Because you're out of money and you need to pay people and keep your company afloat.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Out of money or out of delays? Because people delay it, delay it, delay it, and suddenly they have 10 delays, and people are like, hey, we're not gonna take a delay anymore. Just pressure, I think.

SPEAKER_05 58:18

I guess so. It's just like, man, it's there's there's no conceivable way a launch could go well right now. You know? Um tough no always tough. Even in a bull market, it's tough to time these things, but uh that's that's rough. Well, good luck to them. I hope things turn around and it goes at least goes to the right at some point. I mean, who knows? At least to the right a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

Maybe that TGS strategy right now is to launch and short. That's a good strategy to make money. Let's launch and short.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

Yeah, he said that's the best.

SPEAKER_04 58:52

Man, I forgot you can just do things like that in crypto. What a fucking space, man. I love this space. Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Who who was doing that? Uh Pippin. Was it Pippin? They just got launched in fucking hybrid.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

We never looked at the Pippin chart. Pippin's at zero now, basically.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Yeah. Wait, Henry. Wait, hold on. Before we go, folks, the Pippin chart has to be brought up. This is a fucking crazy one.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

What's Pippin?

SPEAKER_03 59:12

Oh, bro. Uh it was part of the AI cycle. Part of the AI cycle, it was one of them coins that showed up. Um basically it just got crime, it just got crime to fuck. Like they owned definitely. It was definitely a crazy bundle. Yeah, definitely a crazy bundle, but they they got launched on uh listed on hype, and they would just pump money into the chart long on hype and then fucking dump the supply, crack shorts. They'd done the cycle like three or four times.

SPEAKER_05 59:39

XY, you remember Jelly Jelly? Do you remember the whole thing that happened with that where they just decided to do that? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it I mean, this was round two. I think this they they just pumped it.

SPEAKER_04 59:50

I've never told this story before, and this is a good story while we're talking about down bad charts. Can you pull this chart up, Henry?

SPEAKER_05 59:57

Putting the guy to work, man.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Talking uh talking about huge losses, my one of my biggest losses recently was well not recently, but on this um bull was ARK. Remember what?

unknown 1:00:08

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:09

You got wrecked on ARK. So this is AIOT. Exactly. A IoT, and I was an angel investor in this pre whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:18

I know this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:19

I uh I I angeled into this. I bought like like the equivalent of like a million tokens or so worth of it. And um, it was supposed to unlock in October. You see where October is, right? How much of a million tokens is worth in October?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

Yeah, we see it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:37

Guess how many of those tokens I've received?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

How many you got?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:41

Zero. Big your angle carrier. That was an angel bag uh that unlocked in October, and I've gotten no tokens out of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

Um, but should they say the market maker went rogue or something?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:54

Is that what something like that? And I'm supposed I'm I've I've been allegedly like I've I've had multiple phone calls with the founder who's been telling me I'm gonna at least get my money back.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Um this has been going on for since I'm gonna counter Angel Wood like his angel gets remote. Fuck at least.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:14

He hit FOMO. He hit FOMO.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:16

Yeah, that doesn't make up for all my losses.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:18

I'm FOMO, we never we never know. He could maybe get his tokens there either.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:27

Dude, dude, if I got my tokens, if I got my tokens here, I mean, I mean, obviously I wasn't gonna extract the entire value of this, but this was like a million-dollar bag.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:37

I I have to I have to tell you, I don't think you were ever going to get your tokens.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:41

No, I was never gonna get my tokens. I was never going to get my tokens, but like at the time I discounted it like asking, okay, maybe I'll get like 30% of my money out of this. Like that would be the biggest win here. Yeah. And instead of getting 30%, I got 0%.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

So that reminds me of a lot of our angel investments, actually. Uh a lot of them. A lot of them. Yeah, that reminds me of a few. A few names come to mind, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:05

A few names come to mind. Um, Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Um, our would becomes would becomes an angel, and then he gets these emails that say, like, hey, you have been upgraded to board member. No tokens available.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:20

People just play into my ego, you know, and I just look, oh sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:24

You're the chairman now, bro. You're the chairman.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

I'm the chairman of AIOT. Yeah, fuck me. Um late stage bull market idiot things to do. Now I'm I I I think I learned my lessons. I think. You know, at least I can laugh about it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:39

Yeah, there you go. If you don't laugh, you'll cry. Uh, I think I'm I think I'm fucking one for eight on uh private deals. Um lesson learned, maybe next bull next uh bull market fucking stay away. Stay away, yeah. Stay away. Stay liquid.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:53

So Henry just messaged us that he thinks we're that uh Raj is read that someone's reaching out to Backpack to sponsor our show.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:00

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

I know I think it will be guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:10

I said the chart, hey, I said the chart was bought. It was near the bottom.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:13

So I said it was bought. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's roll that back.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:20

All right, all right, we're getting out of here. We'll see you guys Friday. Uh, hopefully, we'll keep you posted. Uh Friday, 24 Eastern. XY, thank you so much for joining us as always. Uh go download FOMO. Thank you, XY. Go download FOMO, promo code RISCON today. Um, get in there, go trade uh the charts, go trade bunk tokens there, especially.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:40

Let's go, guys.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:41

Uh, go with sets. Talk later, guys.